                                            ‘Today’s Pinned News’
Join our WhatsApp groupSubscribe to our Daily Roundup Email
Summer Catskills Region.
Swan Lake, NY – Workers were spotted in the hamlet last week fastening long pieces of what appeared to be PVC pipe to the telephone poles around the lake.
When they followed the utility lines up into Presidential Estates, a private home community with its main entrance overlooking the lake, residents got concerned.
Bill Liblick, president of the homeowner’s association, said he saw “something sneaky” going on. He jumped online.
He discovered they’re building an “eruv,” a symbolic fence used by observant Jews to move items from place to place on Shabbat (the Jewish Sabbath) without violating Jewish law.
The rabbinical consultant brought in to help the Sullivan County Eruv Corporation directed them to use the telephone wires already in place, adding the white pipes that run from the ground to the wire to serve as “door frames,” delineating a continuous boundary.
Application was made to pole owner Verizon by the corporation, and payment for the construction and maintenance is being provided by the families who have contributed.
Ratner said he doesn’t see how the fence has any effect on the non-observant community.
Town of Liberty Supervisor Frank DeMayo admitted he wasn’t informed, Portions of Brooklyn are surrounded by eruvs. Kiryas Joel is enclosed by an eruv.
The laws of the faith call for an agreement with the community before erecting an eruv. “They didn’t do that,” DeMayo said. “And their law is higher than our law in their minds.”
What he’d like to see is a presentation or some sort of explanation of an eruv made at the a town board meeting to better inform the public.
“In the interest of keeping the peace,” he explained. “We all have a right to be here, we all have to get along.
Liblick was frank about his own mission. “We don’t care what you do on Swan Lake; that we’ll take up as Swan Lake residents,” he said. “But we do not permit eruvs [at Presidential].”He wants the structure taken down. [sullivanndemocrat]
If it’s not a religious summer-only colony, why should you care a) when the guy schedules the meeting or b) if it’s on a Saturday? P.S. whatever “unrelated” problems you have should not be posted here… because they are unrelated!
If Bill Liblick is not a “self-hating Jew”, why did he schedule an emergency meeting for Saturday when he knew very well that no Orthodox person would attend? Most homeowners either don’t care or support the Eruv and there was no need to get all excited on his radio show and divide the community with his ranting and raving. On an unrelated matter, Billy scheduled a yearly general meeting after Labor Day when he knew that all the younger people would be gone and only the Floridians would be able to attend, whom he feels he can control and who don’t care as much about the community since they are almost ready to retire full time to Florida.
No, they were Chasidic – and not residents – who came to do “wheelies” with their cars on the freshly laid blacktop, amounting to several thousand dollars in damage. Very religious.
Let the 114 homeowners take a vote on this eruv issue period! This is getting ridiculous!
who are these people that the writer refers to that were arrested .Were they members of the presidental estates ?
Some of you are so ignorant that you are making up things and it’s blatant that you have never set foot in Swan Lake. Bill Liblick is the president of the Homeowners’ Association of Presidential Estates, a REGULAR, non-religious community with BYLAWS and TAXPAYERS. Many of the people happen to be Jewish, but the will of several orthodox people does not mean that these local laws and HOA laws can be abolished. Liblick is not a self-hating Jew just because he is representing the community. That’s his JOB. OH – apparently none of you realize that some of these “RELIGIOUS” people were actually ARRESTED (yes, read that again!) by the police for VANDALIZING the parking lot at Presidential Estates after they were asked to leave!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv
“Under Jewish law, the Jewish community must seek agreement with the community at large before installing the eruv, which adds a layer of complexity to the issue of their installation…….some critics within the Jewish community have criticised the very rare incidents of lawsuits for their installation, as the method is not considered by all to be equivalent to community support.”
Cut the BS and Name Calling and look at yourselfs (both sides) in the mirror.
It’s time the aggressive community work with their neighbors not try and push them out and take over their properties and their lives.
Fix/pay for the damage to the parking lot, ask permission, be a good neighbor and you may be surprised!
So what is wrong asking/telling someone what you are going to do on their property, and it would have been granted!
Isn’t there something wrong when the people putting up the ERUV then destroy other peoples property intentionally and are criminally and financially responsible?
The ERUV is not the issue, the issue is being a good neighbor and not just taking over whatever you can get away with like a terrorist.
Verizon has nothing to do with it neither does Bill Liblick just common courtesy. The same thing happened before with the attempted takeover of the Swan Lake Synagogue by afew GREEDY people which religious leaders and the courts had to intervene because of the blatant disregard for the community and community property.
People need to remember that Presidential Estates is a PUD like a condominium with everyone having a vote, not where one homeowner or board member can just do what they want without everyone else having a say.
Can’t we all play together!
anonymous has a lot to say..just like when making a donation in shul…u a make a pledge but never give the money…coward way out!
Quote:
Liblick was frank about his own mission. “We don’t care what you do on Swan Lake; that we’ll take up as Swan Lake residents,” he said. “But we do not permit eruvs [at Presidential].”He wants the structure taken down.
Fact: No structure was added at all. The Eruv uses the exsisting Verizon cables. The only modifications to the telephone poles were the tiny white PVC pipe added to the the telephone poles.
This is just a trouble maker. His real problem is that untill now when he carried on Shabbos he did a sin. There was no Eruv. Now… all of a sudden, he will be carrying with an Eruv.
I don’t believe in breaking the system or making a Chilul Hashem. However, this was not the case.
From an eyewitness on the scene:
Two sherrif cars suddeldy showed up on Route 55 in Swan Lake while the Monsey Eruv Ve’ad (who were contracted to do the job) were installing the PVC on the telephone poles.
They used a lift operated vheicle (cherry picker) and the one lane of the road was blocked on both sides by service cars with blinking yellow lights.
The sherrif’s showed up and told everyone to stop working right away. We are going to arrest all of you.
– OK… What for?
– You can’t work on these poles. You think you can do what you want? This is private property.
– OK… Sorry. Who’s property is this?
– Hmmm…. I guess it belongs to the utility company.
– Yes. That’s right! It belongs to Verizon.
– What makes you think you may install something on Verizon’s property?
– Well… Here is the lease contract for 208 poles with these numbers and the amount paid and the agreement.
– OK… Sorry… I guess you do have permisson from the owner of these utility poles. But still… You can’t just block the highway and just work here.
– That’s right. We can not just stop the higway without autority. Here is the permit from the town to allow work on the road. And here is the liability insurance policy covering our work.
The sherrif’s just left.
The next day a similar senerio worked out with the State Police. These two individuals are just stiring a pot for nothing. They don’t own the telephone poles. The non-Jewishe people from Verizon were helpfull and understanding and our own are not… Everything was done the PROPER way with permits etc.
Rabbi Steinmetz who is also giving the hasgacha for the monsey eruv, Acquired the rights of the area on friday.
Just a fact:
I spoke with a Veirzon technician today who installed my summer phone line today. He wanted to understand how an Eruv works. We had a lengthy discussion about religion, Jewish believes, and so on.
He told me that Verizon gave permission and it was paid for. Verizon is the owner of the telephone wire utility poles.
No big changes or new wires were installed. It was just the little white PVC pipes added to the side of the poll.
It does not bother anyone. It is not an issue with the locals versus the summer visitors. Why is this guy making an issue? Maybe he hates himself for being born a Jew.
i agree with you fellow swan lake resident 100 percent
ok the story is like this and dont make up new storys:
this billy lublick is well known in the very same presidential estates as a very self hating jew and i personally heard from quite some residents there that they dont like him at all as he is also just a summer resident in swan lake as all of us well this Mr. sy ratner the chairman of sullivan county corp. is a extremly nice and good hearted person and has a long history of helping all jews no matter who it is and does whatever he can “lklal” “ileprat” a very nice person as i know him personally very well, and now back to our story before he started to put u the eruv he tried at his best as a 1 man band to work out everything legally starting from renting the poles from verizon and so on , maybe he didnt do all as it should be might be bt he tried his best AND over there in the presidential estates where he is a resident as well he checked on before hand with lots of the residents there to make sure they are ok with it, and most were some of them not so observant even gave him donations forthe eruv to go ahead and do it so this billy lublick is just lloking were to block any thing that has to do with judaism, SO PLEASE LETS SUPPORY BY ENCOURAGING IM FOR HIS GOOD DEEDS AS THE RUV WAS UP AND STANDING THIS SHABOSS B”H WITHOUT NEEDING TO USE THE PRSIDENTIAL’S PROPERTY THANK YOU MR. RATNER MAY HASHEM BLESS YOU WITH ALL THAT YOU CAN WISH FOR YOU HAVE A BIG ZECHUS
A QUITE SWAN LAKE RESIDENT
This liblick person is a self hating jew he does not live there a whole year
It is not a question of being anti semetic what so ever…. How do you think the people that live up here all year get treated from all of us that come just for the summer….Before you do anything that will involve private area should really be explained too. We do monopolize the stores and lets be honest we make a mess of them and we know who we are….Yes, this does give us a bad name…
_tilities rieght of easment is not defined in a normal.deed utilities have more of a general easment and they can pretty much put their poles where ever they want as long as it is reasonable the fact thatVerizon allows them to use their poles is enough of a schirus rishus according to poskim that they may not need further permission from the residents or the town.
I will not go into Halacha,that is for others.
I will state that as I understand things Verizon uses their poles as their right. They can not put a pole wherever they feel like, poles are placed in backyards based on easements worked out years ago, paid for and listed in deeds. If someone has an issue with Verizon doing something on private property first check your deed, you probably have no case. If they really have no easement you can argue and perhaps get paid. Verizon sells the right to use the poles to others, including cablevision in parts of Brooklyn.
Many people think that all an eruv needs is poles and string. Wrong!
In order to make the eruv poles and string are not enough; you also need to acquire the rights to the area from the local authority. Did this take place? How?
O.Gevald
Right on!
Some people just don’t think! Others think and are outright selfish. What we do out in the ‘country’, how we behave, how we portray ourselves affects ALL YIDDEN. We carry a heavy responsibility not to cause a Chilul HaShem and not to blow it for another Yid.
Think about it – in the War years countless Yidden that were able to save themselves by running or hiding, didn’t, for fear that another one would be put in his place! This selflessness was commonplace!
Yidden are ‘Gomlei Chasodim’. We do chesed for one another. Even in a quiet fashion, without L&S. ‘As one man, one heart’. We put ourselves in another’s place.
Shloma,
When you do a story like this you really should have the whole thing copied to the blog. Had the whole story been copied we could really see how this guy is stirring up trouble. It seems they dont have to contact the city (maybe they did and maybe they didnt. we dont know).
Fence Does Not Make For Good Neighbors
By Jeanne Sager
SWAN LAKE – If good fences make for good neighbors, what does a fence more than a dozen feet in the air make?
In Swan Lake, just one word – controversy.
Workers were spotted in the hamlet last week fastening long pieces of what appeared to be PVC pipe to the telephone poles around the lake.
When they followed the utility lines up into Presidential Estates, a private home community with its main entrance overlooking the lake, residents got concerned.
Bill Liblick, president of the homeowner’s association, said he saw “something sneaky” going on.
He jumped online.
He discovered they’re building an “eruv,” a symbolic fence used by observant Jews to move items from place to place on Shabbat (the Jewish Sabbath) without violating Jewish law.
Sy Ratner, a Presidential homeowner and member of the board of directors of the corporation setting up the eruv, said it simply provides more freedom for observant Jews on the Sabbath.
“It’s a fence, defined by Jewish law, around an area that permits an observant Jew to carry on the Sabbath,” he explained.
Although not a rabbi and unsure of the exact details of the law, Ratner said strict readings of the laws of the faith restrict Jews from carrying anything outside of their private domain.
Under different interpretations, Ratner said everything from stowing a handkerchief in your pocket before heading to synagogue to a mother hoisting her toddler on her hip as she sets out down the road, would be prohibited.
Without the eruv, Ratner said his wife cannot go to shul on Saturdays when their 2-year-old grandson is visiting because law prohibits her both from carrying him on the walk or pushing him in a stroller.
Kids can’t play ball with the kids down the street, and neighbors can’t gather for a communal meal.
With the eruv, life is simply made more enjoyable for Jews on the Sabbath, Ratner said, while allowing them to keep true to the laws of their faith.
As for the actual construction, Ratner said there will be little change to the make-up of the landscape.
The rabbinical consultant brought in to help the Sullivan County Eruv Corporation directed them to use the telephone wires already in place, adding the white pipes that run from the ground to the wire to serve as “door frames,” delineating a continuous boundary.
Application was made to pole owner Verizon by the corporation, and payment for the construction and maintenance is being provided by the families who have contributed.
Ratner said he doesn’t see how the fence has any effect on the non-observant community.
“When you think about it, the cable company puts an extra wire on the pole; this is even less,” he said. “It’s non-intrusive.
“You wouldn’t even know it’s there,” he continued. “The pole has a lot of extra things on it; that’s the beauty of using telephone poles.”
But Liblick is concerned about a religious structure going up in a private community that’s not expressly religious.
“Presidential Estates is not a Jewish community,” he said. “It’s a community for all types of people.
“This is a free society, and they’re putting up eruvs?” he pondered. “If you have private property and you build a bungalow colony and you want to put up an eruv, that’s your right.”
But Liblick said he, as president of the homeowner’s association, should have been notified.
He said the town should have been notified.
“I’m upset that they circumvented the law by not coming to the town and not coming to the homeowner’s association,” Liblick said.
Town of Liberty Supervisor Frank DeMayo admitted he wasn’t informed, but he doesn’t see how the matter falls under the town’s jurisdiction.
“Personally, I don’t have an issue with it,” he said. “It’s not interfering with anyone.
“They’re not putting up any lines; it’s non-obtrusive. Do other people get offended if we put up a Christmas tree in town or someone has a wreath on their door?”
Portions of Brooklyn are surrounded by eruvs. Kiryas Joel is enclosed by an eruv.
They’re not uncommon, DeMayo said.
More to the point, they’re not on town property.
“[Bill Liblick] claimed we had some say in this because they’re on our easement, which is not so,” DeMayo said.
His research shows that the town highway easement has nothing to do with the poles themselves, which Verizon owns.
Verizon Spokeswoman Heather Wilner said her company does indeed own the poles – and they’re subject to federal telecommunications law.
As long as organizations follow the proper application process and plan to use the pole “for a legitimate reason,” Verizon is required to work with them, Wilner said.
In this case, Sullivan County Eruv Corporation filed the paperwork, provided the pipes and will be responsible for maintenance.
Without the addition of actual wires, there’s nothing in town zoning that this project could possibly violate.
DeMayo said the only place he can see an issue is in a reading of Jewish law itself that he has been given.
The laws of the faith call for an agreement with the community before erecting an eruv.
“They didn’t do that,” DeMayo said. “And their law is higher than our law in their minds.”
What he’d like to see is a presentation or some sort of explanation of an eruv made at the a town board meeting to better inform the public.
“In the interest of keeping the peace,” he explained. “We all have a right to be here, we all have to get along.
“But on both sides of the fence, people need to communicate.”
Liblick was frank about his own mission.
“We don’t care what you do on Swan Lake; that we’ll take up as Swan Lake residents,” he said. “But we do not permit eruvs [at Presidential].”
He wants the structure taken down.
Ratner said he’ll be at the July 16 meeting of the Liberty board at the Swan Lake Firehouse.
That’s where DeMayo hopes the two sides can come together to put information on the table.
But he doesn’t want a screaming match like the one the Swan Lake meeting of the board devolved into two summers ago.
“We would like a calm discussion,” he said.
One of the board’s traveling summer sessions, the meeting will be held at 7 p.m. at the firehouse on Monday, July 16.
Change the name to the Sullivan Communist.
I have a feeling this shveinfunt is farbittert b/c he didnt get his share of gelt.
Does Verizon ask the community every time they run new wires??
This is nothing but anti-jewish!
I am amazed at how many communities are looking to fight an eruv. The eruv is nearly invisible, blends into the overhead wires. Yet over and over we see the goyim looking to prevent it.
Sickening is all that comes to mind. And this is from a nation that believe in freedom, to the point where they are ready to legalize gay marriage! Hypocrites!
Tayere Bridder, in general, the Heimishe NYC olam needs to learn that out of the big City, life is very different. The residents feel they are “the residents” while the summer “visitors” are just guests. Even if you own your own summer home, and even if you can vote up there, nevertheless, if you come only to visit, you are a “visitor”.
While in any case you are entitled to make your life easier, the locals are wary of what else we will do to run down their neighborhood. Of course we will argue that the Eiruv is “harmless” but trying to do things without going out of the way to be sure it doesn’t look bad later, we’d better learn how to involve the locals in advance.
At the end of the day, this may wind up in court at great expense to those who desire it. In all reality, there is absolutely no need for a “neighborhood” Eiruv. Each family can erect one on their own property and carry whatever they want outside to their yard. It would be no great tragedy if they cannot wheel their strollers in the street for ONE DAY A WEEK. For generations we have made do without that and no one will suffer without it.
The wise have a saying: “Pick your battles wisely”. Seemingly this isn’t one of them.
What a chillul Hashem, why not sit down with the neighbors first and explain the harmlessness of the eruv before making a stink.
This is a blatant example of anti-jewish sentiment. The poles are privately owned by Verizon, and the construction is paid for privately. It has absolutely no effect on anyone, yet they are crying foul.
This is america in the 20th century. These same people would rather build drug homes in their back yard, than million dollar homes for orthodox jews.
The laws of the faith call for an agreement with the community before erecting an eruv. “They didn’t do that,” DeMayo said
*******
So how come there is an eruv in Williamsburg? There was no agreement with the community ?