Israel – Hareidi-religious soldiers who serve in the Israeli Navy complained on Wednesday that, contrary to instructions and promises by the IDF that they will have a military service in which no there will be no involvement of female soldiers, they were forced to attend a lecture given by a female soldier.
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The lecture dealt with none other than Tu B’Shvat and its importance as a holiday.
The soldiers said they came to the classroom where the lesson was given by the female soldier, whom they jokingly referred to as “the Rebbetzin” (wife of a rabbi, -ed.). The soldiers chose to respect the orders they were given and remain in the room until the end of the lesson. They later met with senior officials in the Nahal Hareidi and talked with them about the incident, which they said is contrary to the IDF’s promises to hareidi soldiers. According to the agreed upon guidelines, hareidi-religious soldiers are supposed to be exempt from such classes or have male instructors.
Eliyahu Lax, Chairman of the Organization for the Religious Soldiers, told Arutz Sheva that this is not the first time such incidents have occured. He noted that in addition, the daily Daf Yomi Talmud lesson that hareidi soldiers were receiving was recently cancelled and they are now eligible for only one hour of Torah study a week.
“This is disrespect for the orders, and yet the IDF says it wants hareidi soldiers,” Lax said, who noted that the organization recently turned to the State Comptroller and asked him to work to enforce the orders regarding the integration of hareidi soldiers in the army. “Despite our turning to the Comptroller, the IDF continues to disregard the orders and agreements.”
big deal….if you want to be machmir be machmir in ahavas yiroel,lashon horah…be machmir in middas tovas limud hatorah ect…
since when can one not hear a womans voice
I thought it was only singing? I guess new churmas come along every day
grow up!!!!!!!!!!!! my gosh so what is wrong with that? are u people making biggest deals over such small and trivial things…
Q. Did she sing?
A. No.
That’s the end of the matter.
Some dingbat in the IDF is playing cowboy by upping the ante. The IDF official policy is to welcome chareidim (notwithstanding that their unofficial policy is to turn them into chilonim), and this yahoo is torpedoing it.
They keep pushing the boundaries to see where the resistance is.
First it was even sitting in the same room (i.e. in “separate wedding rooms”).
Then it was sitting on a (publicly funded) bus.
Next it was walking down the same side of the (public) street.
Now it is listening to them (heaven forbid) talk.
At some point someone wakes up and says “enough is enough” – and there is no basis halachically for such principled showmanship just for the sake of inventing controversy.
This whole exercise is nonsense. There should be a universal draft and suffrage. There are no Charadi Jews and Chilonim Jews andBlue Jews and Red Jews. There are just JEWS.
They broke the agreement! Don’t u see the issue, its not right or wrong- the hareidi joined because the Tzahal promised them something and did not keep it. End of story!
Dont forget we had Devorah who was a judge. There were a number of women that used to give a shiur throught jewish history from behind a curtain.
I’m so sick and tired of these people already.
Most of the above comments are the perfect example of being so open minded, that their brains have fallen out. These soldiers had an agreement with the IDF, and it was violated. They have full right to complain and protest this violation. Israel after all prides itself in being “the only (so called) democracy in the Middle East. Do you have any idea what happens in a real democracy when a soldier’s religious freedom is violated? If only they would be as tolerant toward religious soldiers as they are towards gays etc.
Given the growing number of young women who are studying all of the same limudei torah as the boys including talmud and meforshim, its time for the charediim to recognize that women may soon match or exceed their male counterparts in lamdus and be among the next generation in talmeidei chachamim. In my kids’ school last year, 4 of the top 5 ranking students in the final bechnina on talmud were girls and the rabbonim acknowledge they are generally the better talmidim.
Otem ozno mishmoa Torah gam tefilato toeiva
Wouldn’t it be nice if this “Aishes Chayil” also gave the Daf Yomi!! (with the condition that she doesn’t learn with a nigun)
I wish some posters in this forum would learn the laws of “tznius”. Tznius is not just about clothing and singing…
It wouldn’t hurt to open a Shulchan Aruch and learn the laws of Tznius.
And yes, this applies to you “shredready”. You’re always making comments on this sight with so little knowledge of our religion and its laws.
You take every opportunity you have to attack Orthodox jews.
If you are a “Yid”, I truly feel for your “Neshama”.
People really shouldn’t comment on a topic they have no knowledge of. It makes them look ignorant.
The comments so far seem to miss the main point. These fellows enlisted to serve in a framework that is consistent with their Haredi standards, The promises made to recruits amounts to a contract between the parties. How dare the IDF change the terms of the deal after enlistment! Additionally, it seems unnecessary for the IDF to take away Daf Yomi and have female soldiers give lectures about Jewish topics. It would be appropriate for the IDF to be faithful to its service members.
It’s irrelevant wether it’s permitted according to halocha or not. They thought they had an agreement with the IDF which was merely a lie. Just shows who the freie really are.
It is good training for a young charadi man. Once he is married he will be used to hearing lectures from his wife.
Seriously, Kol Isha should be asur even if she speaks, especially if it is your wife!
Just another nail in the coffin of the idea that religious may serve in the zionist’s military.
I resent that these men are called chareidim. Chareidim, as in real Jews, don’t serve. The ones that do are just zionists self-identifying (with no justification) as religious or modern so-called orthodox. And the more outrages like this one are publicized, the fewer of even those confused and misguided Jews will agree to serve. I always see occasions like this as positive.
The point here is that an agreement was made to have an environment comfortable to Charedi soldiers. I make no mention of Halacha, but rather of comfort. This was the contract and it was flouted by the IDF. The conclusion, to my mind, is that the soldiers are likewise allowed to flout their commitments to the IDF. Its a 2-way street, friends.
I don’t understand this new controversy. Will hearing a woman soldier speak (not sing), excite those who are listening. Would it then be ok, if she spoke behind a mechitzah, where she couldn’t be seen, only heard?
If listening to a woman give a lecture arouses these men to such levels, than they should be in the mental hospital.
Hashem forbid, what would happen if these soldiers are fighting, and all of a sudden the Arabs start playing the sound of a woman speaking, or chas v’shalom, singing? This would be the end of the world.
Firstly, there’s nothing wrong with a woman giving a lesson. The problem would be if she weren’t tznius or if she were singing. which apparently, she wasn’t. Secondly, it was wrong of the IDF to say that they wouldn’t have to do something like this, and then pull this stunt. However, these soldiers need to relax. It’s not the end of the world to hear a shiur given by a woman. There are women more educated then men, Devorah, Rashi’s daughters, etc. Thirdly, while I think they need to relax about the woman teaching them, I’m proud they stayed until the end, even if they did crack jokes about her. I would’ve expected them to rudely walk. Just remember, without women, there would be no future generations, and no future Jews.
This article reminds me of the story of that person who came to the rabbi to help him do tchuvah for stealing, end of the story the rabbi found out that he also killed a person, so he told him ; You have a problem with stealing while u kill ppl ?!, so these soldiers have a problem to get a lecture by a female while they serve in the isrealy military which there is NO heter to do it !!!!!!
We are constantly being told that the IDF needs discipline etc. and the problems with the soldiers walking out when women sing. I spoke to two family members both in chareidi (fighting) units. There is an agreement (“Social contract”) with the soldiers to respect various religious issues. Whether you agree or not the IDF agrees not to have women give instruction or sing. So the IDF is violating its’ own rules. Not good for an army. Wake up. It’s all political, pushing the chareidim. If the IDF agreed to let them wear blue yarmulkes and switched to red it’s; the same point it’s about discipline and respecting social contracts