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Brooklyn, NY - Attempted Rape of Williamsburg Hitchhiker |
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Originally Posted 7/4/2007 3:18 PM
'July 5 Pinned News'
Community Alert! ונשמרתם מאד לנפשתכם
While we at VIN take great care to respect the privacy of individuals, we report this personal, harrowing episode as a burning lesson to all. Under no circumstances, in any situation, should one accept a hitch from a stranger! In today’s dangerous world, we cannot jeopardize our safety simply because we need to get from Point A to Point B. Unfortunately, we can’t trust an individual because of his appearance; looks are deceiving. Please protect yourself and your family, and do not place yourselves in the risk and grave danger of hitchhiking.
U/D 7/4/2007 4:57 PM:
If anyone has seen or has any information in regards to this investigation, please contact the Williamsburg Shomrim Patrol at 718-237-0202.
U/D 7/5/2007 12:07 PM:
As the investigation proceeds, VIN News has received a report from anonymous sources that this unfortunately might not be the first time occurence of such an incident. Therefore, we ask anyone with information or experience of similar stories, please contact either Shomrim or the 84th Pct.
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Brooklyn, NY - Reward for Attempted Williamsburg Rapist
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Read Comments (162) — Post Yours »
1
Oct 11, 2007 at 11:38 AM Anonymous Says:
You people are pathetic. You call your own Rabonim"screwed up"?
Do you know how many people you are turning off?
Do you know how painful it is to join the Jewish community (ba'al teshuva) only to find it just as dirty as the outside world
2
Aug 02, 2007 at 08:23 AM Anonymous Says:
She's running for her life in an empty street. and you wonder why the're no car description or plate? And does a heimishe woman look ro talk to her hitch giver?...
From a woman point of view. you say its suspicious she knows no details. She enters the car and is not supposed to be looking or talking to him. So of course she doesnt remember exact looks.Than she tryes to run for her life and of course its not on lee corner rodney because he wouldnt look for a busy street to do this, so of course what should she rather do? run? or stop for the plate#? Of course there were no bystanders...thats the place a rapist needs ...
3
Jul 23, 2007 at 06:28 PM chanie Says:
1. There is a fundamental difference between a chassid and chassidish. This man was definitely not a chassid, and what he did proves that he is not chassidish. A chassidish b'emet person does not do such thing. And a chassid...aderabba. Vd"l.
2. Anon 10:57- please, if I walk in the street, and they have machshavot zarot, that is their problem... I am not causing an aveira if I am tznius. At a certain point it is up to him to control his eyes and mind. I do not have to hide in the street. Maybe they should be thinking more about Moshiach, or their Rambam or Gemara, and then they won't have so much time to look at me. Don't dump men's issues on women.
A woman must be tznius. For her own sake. And a man must keep his eyes to himself, and his mind on G-d.
4
Jul 18, 2007 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:
continued.
sometimes it might even mean rendering yourself the irrelevant one.our communities and ways of life,backgrounds and minhagim are diverse, what works for me might not and probably will not work for you so save your judgement. Our religion is one of rules, ethics and boundaries and it is those that make us what we are as a whole, communal differences aside, SPECIAL.
5) To anonymous blasting away at us: yes we chasidim are human too. subject to the temptations of our world, as you so eloquently put it, "ogling". At least give us credit for the ten months that we do not give in. You deriding us for our weaknesses does not condone yours, whatever they may be.
5
Jul 18, 2007 at 01:36 PM Anonymous Says:
continued.
4)All you doing away with our leaders because some are corrupt or clueless or just flat out wrong, doesn't validate your position. you're just seeking a way out of accepting the yoke of leadership by tying them all into one package and labeling it irrelevant. you must find an authority you can relate to and trust and be ready to accept their word.
6
Jul 18, 2007 at 01:31 PM Anonymous Says:
continued.
We cannot begin to imagine what you went through. I, a gymrat in excellent physical condition don't know if I would have reacted as boldly and as courageously as you did. Please don't let this put you down. You now know your strength, use it to get past this horrific ordeal. We can all learn a thing or two from you!
7
Jul 18, 2007 at 01:25 PM Anonymous Says:
continued.
The perpetrator should be publicized and punished to the fullest extent of the law(and then some!).3) The woman needs every ounce of support,sympathy and help that we can muster. I salute you for fending off this disgusting vile individual and beg you not to hang your head in shame. Quite the contrary, hold your head up high look everyone in the eye and demand the respect due to you.
8
Jul 18, 2007 at 12:53 PM Anonymous Says:
1) No, I don't believe that any community is immune to criminal and disgusting behavior(realizing that is the first step in battling it)even though it is quite rare in ours and yes we must confront it head on wherever and whenever it rears it's ugly head. No excuses.
2)Tznius is not the issue here. There is no excuse and none should be made for an act like this.
9
Jul 18, 2007 at 01:50 AM Anonymous Says:
Was that animal ever caught? What's taking so long with the investigation?
10
Jul 17, 2007 at 05:32 AM Anonymous Says:
As I said allreay what Harav Vozner said in the sefer anything that is written there is cheked over I know this from clsoe sources.
11
Jul 16, 2007 at 03:51 PM Anonymous Says:
TACHLIS: When r we gonna know who that Behaima was, and get him (and his crew) off the streets?
A concerned father from BP.
12
Jul 16, 2007 at 01:28 AM gaon Says:
July 15, 2007 5:11 PM
Interested insight and point of view of that dayan, thanks
And again, I agree - that even though there is no Yichud, but for the point of standards of ‘tz’nios” - women; especially if u consid. Yourself “Chasidic”- don’t belong at all @ ‘hitch hiking’ Rather they should drive on their own !!
AT FAULT ARE THE RABONNIM IN WILLI !!!
(Not the innocent woman who followed the acts of everyone else there!)
13
Jul 15, 2007 at 05:11 PM Anonymous Says:
I once asked a Dian if I have the right not to pick up a women in the winter from Willi to BP he told me that there is no sheila about yichud in the city in middile of the day however I'm puter to do it becouse of the halocha "ZUKEN VEINO LFI CHEVODO"
that it does not look good for a frum guy to pick up ladies on the street
14
Jul 15, 2007 at 09:27 AM Anonymous Says:
Very simple:
The man was one hundred percent wrong, he should be punished severly... and woman should not try to get hitches and stuff...
(notice how I said "and woman" and not "however woman").
15
Jul 15, 2007 at 02:35 AM gaon Says:
I was B’H zoicheh to learn (although, not through translated books - which in a lot of cases are not reliable - please learn through the INYON starting the Talmud in Kedushin and Even Ha’ezer ch. 21, then start accusing… not the other way around ) and again according to the SHULCHAN ARUCH there is no SHITAH that in middle of a bustling city in a place where everything is visible (like a car) should be any shailah of yichud except in a case of ‘soitah’ or maybe were they are poritz be’aroyis as I’ve mentioned above (if u want the latest poskim:) and so is it in sefer Minchas Shlomo of Rav Shlomo Z Auorbach zt”l
(You don't need to be the Shagas Aryeh to know that!
And If anyone tells u otherwise its pure AM H’RATZES !! I don’t care who he is; you can not argue against the shulchan aruch!)
All I could say is that all he said is she should ‘refrain’…. “When possible “…. (according to your translation) which either doesn’t mean "Issur Yichud" at all. (if u understand the terminology of P’sak)
So stop accusing and bugging a righteous Jewess of Issur Yichud !!
16
Jul 13, 2007 at 04:11 AM Anonymous Says:
Gaon I am not misquoting what Harav Vozner said in the sefer I B'H can read & wrote what is said there as I said just because you never heard of it doesn't mean there is no such a thing. We have to be Zoche to be willing to learn that is what we are here in this world for. He's talking about exactly what I said he is I took it from the sefer.
17
Jul 11, 2007 at 07:07 PM gaon Says:
anon July 10, 2007 11:00 PM
"to gaon...
"looks like your so educated!
what is the halachah if she enters the van in the city, and they drive out of the city like the case we are discussing here,does yichud apply and answer that because of yichud they had no protection from hashem not to do what happend (no rape only an attempt)???""
July 10, 2007 11:00 PM
what if!??
We are not discussing a ‘what if” scenarios, if so the same to the halacha that a open door/window to reshus harabim helps prevent yichud so “what IF” you will close the door ….. I guess you are smarter than the shu”a the main thing is as of now….
You don’t understand the whole concept of ISSUR YICHUD the Issur is (by a YID) not intended for someone who's deliberately looking to be over zenus etc. thus, the above helps, whereas someone who’s PURITZ Be’aRayus like a goy most things do not help e.g. 2/3 men etc.
so in our case she assumed a yid b’chazkas kashrus she’s surely HALACHACLY permitted (the mistake is we shouldn’t assume so) you don’t assume WHAT IF for in that case anything--anywhere could happen, we are general talking about normal ppl not 1 psychopath who should change the whole out come of halacha
...ati lo beroshiai askinan!
----
anon July 11, 2007 4:03 AM
I believe that you are either misquoting/reading Harav Vozner or the book is; he’s most probably speaking about above situation, like yes: a car service! (russian etc) or in a manner of ‘modesty’ not --LeHalachah
In either way she’s clearly innocent as I’ve posted earlier
if any one it's the "rabonim" in willi u should blame!!
----
anon July 10, 2007 10:54 PM
“also, check the halacha about a סוטה“
Sotah ?!?
do you know the issue of soiteh @ all?!
now I know where you are coming from; and your confusion about the yichud part: sure! u assume her to be a case of soiteh which is clearly then a shailah of yichud!!??
Ok no comment…..
18
Jul 11, 2007 at 03:31 PM Anonymous Says:
HOW DOES HALACHA COME IN HERE BARUCH HASHEM SHE IS STILL ALIVE AND NOTHING HAPPENED TO HER IN EITHER WAY LETS LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE CHACHAM
19
Jul 11, 2007 at 04:03 AM Anonymous Says:
gaon, just because you don't know such a halacha doesn't mean there isn't obviouisly if HaRav Vozner said there is there is! I think Harav Vozner knows more then any of us.
20
Jul 10, 2007 at 11:26 PM Anonymous Says:
to anon july 8 12.29 pm how dare you! you obviously can't read or have poor comprehension of the english language. if you reread what I posted you will understand exactly what I meant and not refer to me as a "repulsive neshoma"! not that I really care because you are not someone i associate with in real life. but before you LABEL people you dont know two hoots about "think again!" i wrote something completely opposite of what you interpreted! I wasnt blasting tznius I made a statement that is unfortunately based on the truth!
21
Jul 10, 2007 at 11:00 PM Anonymous Says:
to gaon...
looks like your so educated!
what is the halachah if she enters the van in the city, and they drive out of the city like the case we are discussing here,does yichud apply and answer that because of yichud they had no protection from hashem not to do what happend (no rape only an attempt)???
22
Jul 10, 2007 at 10:54 PM Anonymous Says:
עושה מעשה זמרי ומבקש שכר כ'פנחס
no question of יחוד she was Flamboyant and he was inquisitive.
they both are to be punished the attacker with harsh punishment and the victim with a warning.
also, check the halacha about a סוטה
23
Jul 10, 2007 at 03:40 PM gaon Says:
There is no such halacha "in broad day light" in middle of the city ?! I don't know about the BOOKS you quote - according to the shulchan aruch (aven h’ezer ch. 22) even @ night @ a time u still have ppl roaming the streets, it shoudn’t be a shailah of yichud!
( It maybe a question of modesty which is discussed in ch 21)
So for whatever all that it does matter this is not the issue in our case as I’ve explained above, so stop bugging about yichud
24
Jul 10, 2007 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:
There is definitely a problem of yichud at night in a car, taxi whatever & even during the day too. In raiment of Gold, chapter 36 on the bottom of the page on the it say: when possible a woman should refrain altogether from riding alone in a taxi even during the day (HaRav. S. Wosner Shlita) I'm assuming the opposite would be true too.
25
Jul 09, 2007 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:
I actually believe that the reason this lady took a hitch is, part of the problem with the bus service, (as everyone knows the bus service is taking the passengers "for a ride" there is no customer service etc etc. etc. -) the biggest problem in the summer is that buses only run, once an hour, I would assume that this lady has been waiting for that bus over (or at least near that time-frame) an hour, so after so much frustration she decided to take "un-willingly" a ride with a stranger.
There has been a considerate movement lately before the DOT annual meetings to permit competition on this route. You may recall that they nearly lost their license a couple of yrs. ago at a hearing where customers complained about torn seats, and raining-in, no A/C in the summer, no steam in the winter - and on top of all, rude attitude from drivers and management, (it was only after that meeting that they started posting signs in the bus before the annual meetings – as required by law, as well as other minor law abiding rules).
I strongly feel that people should arrange a considerate fight at (and before) next annual DOT hearing to permit competition on this route for the benefit of all travelers, and then we can go forward with a motion to close the "hitch platz". You can not entitle people to be manipulated as is the situation now!
I am awaiting feedback, and if possible we can arrange a special forum (or blog) to take care of this situation.
26
Jul 09, 2007 at 11:29 AM Anonymous Says:
everyone, stop your dumb motto about how, who or why, youre like a dog barking for no meaning,
wait till the case is solved and then comment .
maybe it was a goy dressed like a chasid in stolen car?
don't judge so soon.
27
Jul 09, 2007 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:
This woman had just missed the Williamsburgh bus and turned down a few offers for hitches.
The woman got into this car because she saw a stethescope in the front seat and assumed he was a hatzoloh member. The middle seat of his car was missing.
This woman's hand was botched up by the knife. She very bravely fought off this psychopath. His aim was to kill her.
A man who does this is obviously enraged at women in general. It has absolutely nothing to do with the women's Tznius.
28
Jul 09, 2007 at 01:07 AM gaon Says:
While I’m browsing through these postings I can’t help but realize how it brings out the inner - arrogance; ignorance; selfishness, brainless bashings and conspiracy believing of some people:
1) There is no justification whatsoever - YICHUD not yichud- Tzenius not Tznios this is absurd, this guy better - animal is a psychopath sex offender that belongs being locked behind bars.!!
For anyone to just THINK to justify this monster NOEF sure needs to check his own morality out (or maybe his internet filter - ve’hamevan yuvin. I bet most of these bringing up her tzenius ; kitchen, etc. are either 1) not married and if to- I pity their wives! 2) they themselves shouldn’t move out of the kitchen they r surely a danger to society - 3) if u can’t contain your desires at such level - what are you diff. than the animal; what demarcates human from animal !
2) For all Am HaRatzim out there YICHUD has nothing to do with this issue -a- yichud is not a DeOreisah (Rambam - at least in such situation - except maybe if you tell me she’s a case of ‘soiteh’!!) - b- there is no yichud ‘BeIR’ in middle of broad day light. See shu”a Ah”a ch. 21
So For whatever all that it does matter, she was certainly not aware of being an issue or matter of yichud at all - she’s 100% innocent (she did what all the other typical Williamsburg’s were doing)
So For g-d sake - Use your common-sense
3) At Fault are:
The RABONIM out there; this hitch hiking by women in WILLI has been going on forever; where were they till now?! all they are busy with, is ASURING shtusim - ERUVIN (ps not the private street ones), shaitel, strawberries, bike driving (yes by boys-not women), zoli-aronim Zionism all nonsense’s you name it- you get some posters plastered all over town …..
But when it comes to something substantial !!?????
NOTHING !!
(Note: I don’t mean the rabanim in general just the nois making rabanim there that only work according to their political agenda VeHmayvin Yavin )
>>There is no question that women standing and hitch hiking is against the standards of tze’nue’s I don’t see anyone in FB BP doing so, why is it so typical in WB !??
(And using a russian car service is certainly not the salvation much worse, e.g. - IF its yichud another man will help but not against a goy)
4] If a women is a frequent traveler it certainly is better for her to drive BUT these rabonim will never tell you so - it doesn’t flow according to there political agenda !
Now for all the lomdim out there:
1] what do you think chazal in their times would do in such situation (if caught in act he’s allowed to be killed!) 2] are you aware what the issur yichud 'LePenuah' is based on - the story of Amnon And Tumar which was a simular case.
Are you so surprised @ the fact that a CHASIDIC yungerman could do so. Well I may be ‘surprised’ but not ‘shocked’ I wonder how someone HUMAN could sink so low he’s definitely psychopathic case; so for that matter it doesn’t make a diff. on his background levush etc.
For your info: there has been similar cases not as crazy but creepy if you look into the siferi Tshuvas ahu”a see pischei tshuvah ch 145 several cases see Shu”T Binyan Tzion (vol. 1 end even haze) for a bizarre case that someone who appeared to be a purish (went to mikvah in iced river etc) managed to talk a (married) women into that he’s Eliyahu HaNavi and she’s the chosen one to give birth to moshiach only .... etc. The bottom line these RESHAIM 'in disguise' have r’l always existed and @ some cases they were dealt with.
Nothing new. May hashem protect us!
29
Jul 08, 2007 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:
to those who have a problem abot צניעות, let me tell you something before the second wrld war,
reb Mechoal ber Weismandel said "stop fighting with Hashem "
no one listned and it happend what happend nm"g.
all you are doing is battling with hashem because he is the one that said all commandments and you are to follow it.
30
Jul 08, 2007 at 12:29 PM Anonymous Says:
to: anon..July 8, 2007 3:00 AM
it seems, that you like all others agree that צניעות is an important toppic to discuss, as you confess your sin for dressing the way you discribe it ,well it's like they say "you are what you eat"
if you would eat Kosher with a Prominent hashgacha, than you would see how imperative it is for a jewish woman to dress בצניעות ,
now, no one accused her abot צניעות it was just a thaught, like you said that you dress Intentionally to be מכשיל את הרבים , it's like the אריז"ל said that before משיח will come,
in this generation the נשמות from דור המביל will return to the world.
and looks like you and the other forums who are disagreeing about צניעות are from these Repulsive נשמות.
it is not long till משיח will come he will point his finger in public who were the ones that helped him come fast and redeem us, and who were the ones that prolonged it.
and it will be like a blanket when you shake it only those holding on to it will survive, meaning
those whoe care about יודשקייט will be זוכה for עולם הבא and those whe oppose it will be vanished.
let me ask you why do you need משיח what better life will you have than now?
therefore if there is a discussion about צניעות or any toppic תורה and מצוות
it's not תורה'דיג if your comments are to resist about it. because you are saying from your own words that you dont care about
יודשקייט
31
Jul 08, 2007 at 03:00 AM Anonymous Says:
it is very interesting how you CONDEMN the woman but CONDONE the attempted rapist! as one of you stated that no matter what a woman wears it wont matter to the rapist! and yes! chassidim can do bad things! all of you guys chatting with women online when you are supposed to be working or helping your wives with your half a dozen kids! yes,what she did was a mistake which i am sure she will regret and remember for the rest of her life. but the most important question I ask is: IF IT WOULD HAPPEN TO YOUR WIFE,MOTHER OR SISTER WOULD YOU BE SO QUICK TO JUDGE? OR WOULD YOU DO ANYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO FIND THAT LOWLIFE AND GET HIM INTO THE SLAMMER? she is a pregnant woman and maybe she waited long for the bus and lost her senses for a minute,but that doesnt justify a guy to take advantage of her! I hope he gets caught and then taken care of LORENA BOBBIT STYLE! and stop posting these dumb comments about tznius. most of you guys cant wait for the summer so that you can see all the tight t-shirts and ogle the women! (by the way...I AM FEMALE)_
32
Jul 08, 2007 at 02:36 AM Anonymous Says:
what is mindboggling is the fact that a woman and especially a pregnant woman would take a hitch with a man she doesnt know. isnt there a williamsburg/boropark bus around for a reason? and as one anonymous poster stated "what about the halachos of being with a man in a car?" as a woman,and maybe because i value my childrens mother i would never take a hitch even if i would have to borrow the 25 dollars to get to my destination! you dont need to have BRAINS to know that its a strange thing to do all you need is a "bissel" common sense! its unfortunate that this happened,but maybe it will teach many men and women to value their life and yiddishkeit over 25.00 or the 2.50 the bus costs. "IT'S BETTER TO LOSE A MINUTE OF YOUR LIFE,THAN TO LOSE YOUR LIFE IN A MINUTE"! may we all have a safe and gezinte zimmer! p.s. men this is a message for you too! if u see a heimishe woman driving please dont ask her for a hitch either! it is very imeidel and puts her in a very uncomfortable situation (as heard from my friends)
33
Jul 06, 2007 at 06:22 PM Anonymous Says:
Perhaps women should be permitted to drive by those communities that disallow their doing so.
34
Jul 06, 2007 at 04:36 PM Anonymous Says:
its very tragic that at first soomebody suggested that ''MAYBE'' the women wasn't dressed modest and by now it got already a fact. its not right to do so
35
Jul 06, 2007 at 04:35 PM Anonymous Says:
its very tragic that at first soomebody suggested that ''MAYBE'' the women wasn't dressed modest and by now it got already a fact. its not right to do so
36
Jul 06, 2007 at 03:16 PM Anonymous Says:
Why the issue of tznius? Did anyone see how this poor woman was dressed. Or is it you're need to justify this horrible crime that causes you to look for a reason that this woman deserved it?
When a misfortune happens to you, are you also this quick to look for spiritual reasons to justify it.
The rule is this:
When a misfortune happens to another Yid show compassion and daven for them.
When a misfortune happens to oneself, some soul searching is always a good idea.
Stop Halten Yenem's Cheshboinos.
It's a very ugly holier than thou Middah.
May Hashem send us Moshiach Immediately.
37
Jul 06, 2007 at 11:53 AM Anonymous Says:
by the way was hatzalah called for her injury?
did she call or another person saw and called?
38
Jul 06, 2007 at 11:47 AM Anonymous Says:
if you would read and understand all forums, before commenting, you would relize that everyone, like you are blaming him and not her. she is innocent maybe we don't know but
according to הלכה they both were
עובר על איסר יחוד
like, eitzageber said...
a van with tinted windows you cannot see what's going on inside. and those Questioning car service, it's Different because it is in the williamsburg neighborhood everyone sees you, but with the van in the summer months going off route. it's not her fault he went off route, but she should have known better not to hitch with strangers alone.
39
Jul 06, 2007 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:
no one is accusing her about צניעות
but the result ח"ו for improper or
dressing to impress is right in front of you.i Believe that if a women in the street dressed not בצניעות is dishonest to her husband. why are the rabbonim busy with צניעות should i clerify it with detail.?
the attacker might have circuled the bus route for a victim he desires and he found one. luckily she was able to fight him off.
40
Jul 06, 2007 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:
so the women is wrong becouse of yichid and not the man, is that what you are trying to say
41
Jul 06, 2007 at 10:31 AM Anonymous Says:
So I've just read the comments and let me see if I understand.
what the guy did was wrong, BUT it's her fault because she wasn't tzniusdik enough. or is it the guy is not even at fult because what do expect from a guy that sees a women?
42
Jul 06, 2007 at 09:57 AM eitzageber Says:
although it was midday and in a public thoroughfare where normally Issur Yichud would not apply being that is was a van is different because you really can't see what's doing in the back.
I am not saying this to CH"V blame this poor woman I only want men and women to be aware of this Halachah
43
Jul 06, 2007 at 09:45 AM Face Value=0 Says:
Once this (or a) guy is caught should he be sent to prison right away or should there be a trail?
44
Jul 06, 2007 at 09:37 AM Anonymous Says:
You know if they find the guy involved and it turns out he is from a chusheve mishpuche, watch how it will be swept under the rug so that the chusheve mishpuche does not suffer bishe especially if the victim is not as prominent...
45
Jul 06, 2007 at 09:25 AM Anonymous Says:
Which type of hat did he wear?
46
Jul 06, 2007 at 09:08 AM a GUY who understands Says:
to anonymous July 4 11:41pm...
you said that you are a rape victem... and your attacker didnt pay for his action, 1st of all, i'm sorry for you, but about him.. why did he get away with it? because you didnt know who he was? or because of the screwed up rabonim we have, that wont do anything if its not for their bank account interest??
this guy should be brought to justice, and his name should go into the 'sex offender' database... there is no reason for him to walk around on the streets with a smile on his face...
and to the rest of you out there.. start getting yuor facts straight, a pragnent women, DOESNT dress to impress... OK?? and maybe she didnt have כח to wait around for the bus...
true, ALONE.. is what we have to -unfortanitly- be careful not to get into with anyone, and this should remind us all, of the time and place we are in... times have changed, and are changing fast.... and not for the better...
47
Jul 06, 2007 at 08:25 AM NY Post Says:
July 6, 2007 -- A knife-wielding man attacked a pregnant woman who had accepted a ride from him in Brooklyn, cops said yesterday.
The 21-year-old woman - who, like her attacker, is Hasidic - had been waiting at a bus stop on Kent Avenue at Wallabout Street in Williamsburg when the man pulled up in a gray minivan at 11 a.m. Tuesday and offered to take her to Borough Park.
She hopped in the back seat; hitchhiking is fairly common among Hasids in the two neighborhoods.
The driver was in his 20s, of medium build, and dressed in typical Hasidic clothes, hat and beard, and spoke fluent Yiddish, sources said.
As they were driving, he told her he was from out of town and had to get a GPS navigator in the back.
Cops said he pulled over at Adams and York streets, pulled out a knife and tried to attack the woman.
She fought him off, but was slashed on her right hand before she escaped, and the man drove off.
Isaac Abraham, a Hasidic community leader , said it's an "everyday thing" for Hasids to give rides to one another, and that the corner is a spot where people often wait for a lift.
"We are very concerned. It's hard to believe that this guy figured, 'Let me pick 11 o'clock in midday and try strike one,' " said Abraham.
"There may be other victims that were too afraid to fight."
48
Jul 06, 2007 at 08:03 AM Anonymous Says:
Anonymour July 6, 2007 5:27 AM you couldn't have written it any The first question after 120 years a man is asked if he learned Torah & a woman is asked if she was Tzanuah. A woman that is Tzanuah has a special Keduah & influences people around her. If she chas ve'sholom isn't Tzanua then she also influences but in a bad way. Which means she's machshil men. They look at her. Just like a man has to learn Torah a women has to be dressed & act Tzanuah.
49
Jul 06, 2007 at 05:27 AM Anonymous Says:
Those who oppose on the topic included here,
On “Tznius” ,
like chana said …
-July 5, 2007 11:36 PM.
Are the ones in violation of Tzius according to halachah.
And cannot communicate to the discussion.
The truth hurts, we know.
besides, this is the topic where you would discuss Tznius, because
if you are a machshil es harabim
you no longer have protection from hashem, and it should not happen what happened.
we are not blaming anyone it's just a discussion of what might have Triggered the attempt to occur in the first place.
if all would learn every day mussar
you would see evel as evel and the opposite.
like the chassam sofer said one day he did not learn mussar he felt coldness to hashem.
have you ever heared about Masechet
Gehenim in seifer reishis chochmoh
once you learn it, you will understand the consequences of Tzinus, etc..
if you cannot accept the fact that Tzius is an important toppic in this forum than thats what you are lacking.
true, the perp did a crime, needs to be Apprehended and Prosecuted.
a fire does not start by itself, some is igniting it.
50
Jul 06, 2007 at 12:30 AM Anonymous Says:
12:15- I did the same and saw apparently the exact guy you did based on the description you give. There's no question that illness knows no boundaries, religious or otherwise. Sick individuals can be found ANYWHERE. Always do whatever you can to protect yourself, including never putting yourself in a situation like this to begin with. That being said, I'm certainly not blaming the victim here. Hashem should give her the strength and optimism to get through this terrible ordeal. But in this scary and uncertain world, trusting a stranger is a really foolish thing to do.
51
Jul 06, 2007 at 12:15 AM Anonymous Says:
I hate to write this but out of curiosity I once went to a sex offender registry web site and did a search for a frum neighborhood. Nebuch I saw a guy with a white beard, payos, etc... This says nothing bad about chasidim. Its just that people who do this stuff are sick. And anyone can be sick, even people raised frum. We shouldn't pretend it never happens.
52
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:36 PM Chana Says:
They should make a separate story on how important tzinius is. It is very important. But it is a separate issue from this.
53
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:25 PM Anonymous Says:
How severe were the wounds she got from fighting this animal off?
54
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:04 PM Anonymous Says:
My heart goes out to this woman! How scary this all must have been for her. Thank G-d she had the strength to fight him off and get away!
I would call the police right away. I'm too afraid shomrim (how helpful and great they are) would be a little hodge-podge and try to protect the perp.
And how typical to read people blaming the victim. I'm not surprised. That is what teh rabbis teach you. Apparently, all your sins are due to the fact that the woman dress untzniusdig.
55
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:48 PM Ari Says:
seething Thumbs up!!
I would like to touch on this subject from a different angle.
Why is there such a cryout on this woman entering this car without thinking first why women hitchhike in the first place.
OK, enterring a car with a stranger is poor judgement ( not an issur) but what is the alternative? Entering a car service (like someone suggested) with a strange russian or hispanic or who knows what?
Or perhaps taking the bus where she would not even be able to pass to the rear and would be forced to stand in the heat all the way in traffic? Do you know what it is like taking the bus even for a man? Have you noticed how the "wonderfull" (wonderfull even for men) bus drivers always yells at the women with little babies (your babies!!) in one arm to immediately fold the strollers or else... and exactly how can a women with a little baby (or 2) in one had fold the stroller and be shoved to the rear in an instant?
Now let me get to the point, maybe it would have been much better if WOMEN WOULD DRIVE THEMSELVES!! for many of you it maybe unheard of but it makes the most sense. More sense then getting into a car with a stranger, more sense than taking the bus (which is a real pain), more sense than taking a car service for around $25 with yet another stranger.
And if talking about tznius, it is much more tzniusdig and safer for a woman to drive then to hitchhike and even more tzniestid than taking the bus and squeezing through the men to reach the rear...
And for those suggesting she remained in the kitchen... PLEASE GROW UP!! or perhaps don't have your wife go shopping for you, do it yourself and then talk!!
Just a thought
56
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:34 PM Chaim Says:
It is so obvious that some comments here are being made by people who do not believe what they are saying, but merely want to get a strong reaction.
57
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:17 PM Anonymous Says:
to annon.. quote "doesnt Satmar have in their new shul (looks like a barn)"
u r the rapist if u have the chutzpa to call a hilege shul a **** and specialy a satmar shul than its got be YOU THAT WE ARE ALL LOOKING FOR no ehrliche yid would dare say something like this.....SHEM DICH !!!!
58
Jul 05, 2007 at 09:44 PM TALK LIKE MAN! Says:
lets not get emotional. FACTS: this women was assulted bot NOT raped. so this man is not a rapist. if captured he will not even have to register as a s** offender. he will be charged with 1'st or 2'th degree assult & harrasment he could get 18-36 months prison & few years prhobation & a fine, the thing what he has to fear is a lawsuit. the people who will suffer is the wife & children & therfore his name shouldnt be publicized when captured the best way to handle this is to make a money setlement & he should check in to rehab. because if this man will be prosecuted you will kill a whole family & creat a new generation of rapists. this women who got assulted - i haue symphaty fnr her, but - she is 50% guilty she shouldnt haue entered a car of a unknown man. stop crying that she is going trough a hard time & i shouldnt criticize her because when you jump from a building it also hurts. & YES ENTERING A CAR OF A UNKNOWN MAN IS LIKE JUMPING SUCIDE FROM A BUILDING
59
Jul 05, 2007 at 09:08 PM Anonymous Says:
Anonymous 8:50 said...
6:00 PM
What facts do you desire? The story is 100% true. What information is missing??
Maybe 6:00 is one of those guys who needs proof that she was wearing her burkha and pictures of the wounds she suffered fighting him off to prove it was only 75% her own fault.
After all, if she didn't lose an eye or at least half a mouth of teeth and a couple of broken ribs she must have really wanted it to happen.
60
Jul 05, 2007 at 09:03 PM Anonymous Says:
seething, i agree with every word!
for those idiots discussing tznius here: a guy looking to rape s/o will even be happy with a woman in a burqa, so please, this is the wrong forum for your comments.
for those doubting that a chassidishe guy was guilty: i can't believe anyone can be so naive in today's world. PLEASE, teach your families to protect themselves from ANYONE acting suspiciously, offering rides, etc., regardless of appearance. There are sick ppl in every community.
61
Jul 05, 2007 at 08:50 PM Anonymous Says:
6:00 PM
What facts do you desire? The story is 100% true. What information is missing??
The police have a description of the car, of him, and a artists sketch is being planned. The delay is being caused by her need for surgery and her overwhelming trauma.
62
Jul 05, 2007 at 08:49 PM Anonymous Says:
i think he is saying that if you eat non kosher you put the torah and it's comandments according to today's world and not the world to the torahlike it's supposed to be
and you pick which mitzvoh to fullfill and which not.
63
Jul 05, 2007 at 08:28 PM Anonymous Says:
7:42
Anyone with a clue as to what this individual wanted to convey?
64
Jul 05, 2007 at 07:42 PM Anonymous Says:
the Rambam says
v"netamtem bomm if you eat
somhow or ch"v non kosher than you have no feeling for a mitzveh
and don't understand in this situation what yichud, modesty or rape according to halachah, you think it's a pressure to do everything a yid shomer torah mitzvohs is supose to do
that is called mimur leduvar echod
we were freed from mitzrayim (egypt) why? because hashem chose us to be his servents and to obay them it's not your choice we said
"naseh v'nishmah" and accepted all 613 commandments,
shabbos, kashrus, tefillin,tznius,
etc.. again it's not your choice thats why we were assigned rabbonim who are knowledgable in all aspects of the torah that if you have any questions or whatsoever to ask them and they must respond to it.
65
Jul 05, 2007 at 07:18 PM Anonymous Says:
!כל ישראל ערבים זה לזה
if your right arm hurts why blame the left?
if such a thing happend רח"ל
it is a sign from השם we should do תשובה the letters of תמוז is
ז"מני ת"שובה מ"משמשים ו"באים
meaning חודש אלול
so let's not judge until the investigation is complete.
and stop speaking לשון הרע רכילןת or מוציא שם רע
66
Jul 05, 2007 at 06:08 PM Anonymous Says:
I hesitate to judge beforw the facts are in however i can still take a lesson from this
1.While the great majority of the heimisha community are ehrlich there are predators among us as well
2. Tell your loved ones to show repect but suspect everyone(yichabedhu vyichashdehu)
3. Do not accept favors from or open up your door to anyone you do not know.
67
Jul 05, 2007 at 06:00 PM Anonymous Says:
I think if there would be any truth to this story we would have more information, the looks of the guy etc. in this crazy world there are lots of people lacking attention and tryting to get it in crazy ways....
68
Jul 05, 2007 at 05:17 PM Anonymous Says:
To all of you blaming her for not taking a car service;
Why isn't it Yichud with a male car service driver? (of course if it is with a hitch)
69
Jul 05, 2007 at 05:15 PM Anonymous Says:
Att: Chana
תרתי למה לי
70
Jul 05, 2007 at 05:07 PM Chana Says:
There is no justification for this incident. Period.
The man who did this is not frum. He is not a chasid. He is a rasha m'rusha. I doubt he is even Jewish.
That being said, to address some of the points above not related to this incident but of a general nature, a woman does NOT belong on the street. A woman must avoid being in a position where men will mistakenly look at them. A woman must avoid putting herself in a Yichud situation, in a car or elsewhere.
71
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:54 PM Anonymous Says:
Shomrim should defer to the police (after they find him, of course) so that he should be put on the list of sexual offenders and therefore won't be able to live amongst children either.
72
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:54 PM Anonymous Says:
several weeks ago my wife, while getting into her car in a supermarket parking lot, was approached by a "chassidish" man asking her if she could please give him a ride...B"H she declined (although she did "feel bad" about it)...
the bottom line is this, although as frum people we have a desire to do chesed, and the vast majority of frum/chassidish men and women would willingly assist one another (even the opposite gender when needed) the world has become a frightening place and one most be very very cautious...personally I am very glad to offer a ride to anyone that is needing it but am reluctant if it is a woman alone..
I wish to express my whole-hearted sympathy to the victim of this incident and hope that she can regain normalcy in her life very quickly.. as far as the jerk who did this horrible deed, I hope, for your sake, I never cross paths with you..
a first time (chassidish) blogger
73
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:36 PM Anonymous Says:
The onesh for violating hilchos yichud is not violent sexual assault.
A rapist does not feel desire for a victim but a perverted rage to attack.
Thank you 2:33pm and 4:07pm for your comments
- T from BP
74
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:34 PM Anonymous Says:
He did the sin for picking up the woman
were does it say in torah she shouldn't go ito the car when he stops the car to pick her up
he is a baal aveira
he is the one full of sins
im sure when the full story will come out we will all be in shock like we where in the monsey meat story time is up the truth must come out and dont blame the torah when it comes to mentchlechkeit
75
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:
what we finely see here is, what peolpe in today world are busy telling everyone else what to do did anyone not in the kitchen STOP and THINK What makes me a better person then the other one? it doesn't start here by the adults it starts by the yesivas how many bocherim are not exccepted into yeshivas beacause the yeshiva only takes in metziunem and if chas vesholom the yeshiva made a mistake and took in a bochor that one father doesn't like his looks the father will complain and will do anything to get the bochur to walk the streets for the rest of the zman שפוכת דמים means nothing today. Stop looking where your not suppose to, start thinking reality you are not hashems police you cant even whatch on yourself and your own family, usually the people that are busy with other people's bad doing are the ones who give out the worst children start looking into your own plate the world will become a much better world without your help.
76
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:17 PM nuch a chosid Says:
again the comment section get full of idiotic remarks, it's a shame, the moderators shouldn't post many of the silly comments.
this is a terrible crime, and who ever is excusing that criminal, or bashing the victim, needs to have his mind checked out.
You are out of your mind, an you create a terrible chilil hashem, for the many outsiders who follow this popular board.
Oy, zenen di rabonim gerecht, you shouldnt have Internet access, because u expose your idiotic side to the world.
77
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:07 PM Anonymous Says:
0.
Seething is 100 percent correct.
And by the way, when a perpetrator targets a victim it has nothing to do with what the person is wearing! (for all those who implyed that lack of tznius could be a justification for rape)! A rapist does not feel desire for a victim but a perverted rage to attack.
78
Jul 05, 2007 at 03:55 PM Anonymous Says:
The 'logic' of Anon 3:09 PM straddles the boarder between insanity and stupidity.
Anon 3:09 PM scribbled:
To:Stop blaming the victim said...
what do you mean not
עובר על יחוד ?
>Getting into a car in broad >daylight in a crowded city is not >yichud. Poor judgement, maybe, >but not yichud.
'what does it say in פרק ???
עבירה (יחוד ) גוררת עבירה,
מזנה עם אשת איש
>Where did you learn to think? The >mishnah means that if a person >commits a sin it will cause him >to sin again, not cause someone >else to sin, so even if she had >sinned, which she did not, it >would cause her to sin, not to be >raped unless of course you are a >follower of the Taliban who >believe that raping is not a sin >but getting raped is a sin and >the victim 'sinner' should be >stoned - wait - that explains it ->maybe you sere stoned when you >tried to think this thru.
it looks like you have no knowledge of this sin, עבירה
>True, B"H I do not.
either because you have commited this crime so it's like chazal say
נעשית לו כהתיר
>no, I have never been oiver on >yichud with a chassidesheh man so >I have never committed this 'sin' >you think took place at 11:00 >A.M. in a crowded city.
or you just don't want to accept the law, בוכה למשפחותיו
>The sugya at the end of Sukkah >was not discussing rapists so I >have no idea why you are bringing >it in.
79
Jul 05, 2007 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:
Sorry to disappoint all you nutheads out there but there is no issur of yichud during the day in an open area and the way from Willi to BP is definitely populated. So don't go placing the blame on the woman. Secondly, to those of yous blaming her for getting into the car she happened to have been waiting for awhile for the bus, it seems like you've never had to wait a while for a bus to come but after waiting for half an hour and a decent looking guy approaches and offers a hitch it's not a very easy thing to turn down. Please stop posting crazy, immature, and totally not decent comments i.e. this woman wasn't dressed tznius'dig... SAID WHO??This guy deserves to be punished to the fullest extent and should not be scot free.
80
Jul 05, 2007 at 03:48 PM Anonymous Says:
If Kolko is innocent then this guy is innocent.
81
Jul 05, 2007 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:
1) first think shomrim should do, is instaling cameras all around the hitch place, they could get the funding from federal or state programs. 2) its not a shala of yiched as long the car dosent have tinted windows & is riding on the BQE which is a r'shis harabim. 3) when some1 enters a car he or she should write down the plate #'s. (as nuchem rosenberg said on his hotline, farfalan when he is right he is right...) 4) if a name starts sorfacing that he is the possible rapist, no1 should rush to conclusions till DNA tests is prooving. AND TO ALL WHO ARE DAN L'KAF Z'CHIS: LETS SEE HOW WILL REACT WHEN YOUR WIFE GETS RAPED
82
Jul 05, 2007 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:
Anonymous said...
Anon @ July 5, 2007 2:35 PM I hope your typing in caps was a mistake.
July 5, 2007 2:50 PM
Not at all.
I was YELLING at the neanderthal who wrote that the attempted rape was someone's mistake.
83
Jul 05, 2007 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:
To:Stop blaming the victim said...
what do you mean not
עובר על יחוד ?
'what does it say in פרק ???
עבירה (יחוד ) גוררת עבירה,
מזנה עם אשת איש
it looks like you have no knowledge of this sin, עבירה
either because you have commited this crime so it's like chazal say
נעשית לו כהתיר
or you just don't want to accept the law, בוכה למשפחותיו
84
Jul 05, 2007 at 03:01 PM Yoel Says:
The Lady will have a big SURGERY today on her hand . . . (Hashem yishmeriny)
85
Jul 05, 2007 at 02:50 PM Anonymous Says:
Anon @ July 5, 2007 2:35 PM I hope your typing in caps was a mistake.
86
Jul 05, 2007 at 02:35 PM Anonymous Says:
Anonymous said...
The man who did this is not frum. He is not a chasid. He is a rasha m'rusha. I doubt he is even Jewish.
-----
Why do you say that. Can't someone be Chasidish and make a mistake?
July 5, 2007 2:10 PM
A MISTAKE???
YOU ARE SICKER THAN THE RAPIST!
PARKING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE SIDE DURING STREET CLEANING IS A MISTAKE.
RAPE IS A VIOLENT CRIME MEANT TO DEGRADE THE VICTIM.
THE VICTIM IS NEVER THE SAME.
A MISTAKE???
TEACHING YOU TO USE A COMPUTER WAS A MISTAKE.
87
Jul 05, 2007 at 02:34 PM Anonymous Says:
i think they should check all the survallance camara's @ adams st & @ the brinks ,i am almost shure that they will get him
88
Jul 05, 2007 at 02:33 PM Stop blaming the victim Says:
Anonymous said...
why is she Guilty too??
because she was not draged,nabbed, kidnapped, etc.
she opened the door and entered a car with a man alone violating yichud, and indangering herself.
July 5, 2007 1:59 PM
Time to give up the dark ages.
You sound like your knuckles drag on the sidewalk when you walk.
The woman was probably not oiver hilchos yichud but that does not matter a ki hu zeh. The onesh for violating hilchos yichud is not violent sexual assault.
89
Jul 05, 2007 at 02:10 PM Anonymous Says:
The man who did this is not frum. He is not a chasid. He is a rasha m'rusha. I doubt he is even Jewish.
-----
Why do you say that. Can't someone be Chasidish and make a mistake?
90
Jul 05, 2007 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:
why is she Guilty too??
because she was not draged,nabbed, kidnapped, etc.
she opened the door and entered a car with a man alone violating yichud, and indangering herself.
91
Jul 05, 2007 at 01:38 PM Anonymous Says:
Is it possible that the crime was actually completed and it's being called an "attempt" to spare the victim? Think about it, you got an agressive male with a knife in a secluded area attacking an unsupecting woman without warning.
92
Jul 05, 2007 at 01:32 PM Anonymous Says:
No. I wouldn't want to be the שליח of the יצר הרע to entice someone to sin. חז"ל over 2,000 years ago knew well into the psyche of men & women, when they instituted the איסור of יחוד. Look what חז"ל say on the פסוק of כי בשדה מצאה - פרצה קוראה לגנב. Nothing new.
93
Jul 05, 2007 at 01:28 PM Anonymous Says:
well what the hell did the guy want from the pregnent woman???? and to all these bozos who are bz defending that rapist you're just as bad
94
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:55 PM Anonymous Says:
No. I wouldn't want to be the שליח of the יצר הרע to entice someone to sin. חז"ל over 2,000 years ago knew well into the psyche of men & women, when they instituted the איסור of יחוד. Look what חז"ל say on the פסוק of כי בשדה מצאה - פרצה קוראה לגנב. Nothing new.
95
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:51 PM Anonymous Says:
NOBODY -- man, woman or child -- should ever solicit or accept a ride from a stranger, anywhere, because YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT KIND OF NUT MAY PICK YOU UP!
And motorists should NEVER pick up strangers on the roadside, anywhere, because YOU NEVERE KNOW WHAT KIND OF NUT IS GETTING INTO YOUR CAR!
(this obviously does not apply if the the two people involved recognize one another, know each other fairly well and each knows the other is NOT a nut).
There have been PLENTY of cases, unfortunately, where either hitch hikers or the drivers who pick them up have been attacked and killed, or seriously injured, raped (in the case of women) or robbed. Even if in the latter case there is no physical harm, only the loss of money or maybe the vehicle as well, the psychological damage is enormous and long-lasting.
EVERY PERSON who can should take a self-defense course, including the use of pepper spray, mace or other weapons, to know what to do if the unthinkable arises (Zev Jabotinsky once famously said it's better to know how to shoot and then not have to, than to have to shoot and not know how). It's almost impossible for a law-abiding citizen who has no big political connections to get a gun permit in this screwed up, politically correct city (and criminals KNOW that their victims have been disarmed by the law), but people should then acquire non-lethal weapons such as mace, should learn how to use them (and not have them taken from you) and should NOT BE AFRAID TO USE THEM IF NEED BE. The life you save may be your own. This is especially true for women, most of whom are naturally smaller and not as powerful as men (there are eceptions to the rule here and there) and who need and "equalizer" to turn the tables on creeps such as the guy in this news report (and I don't care how "heimishe" or "Chasidic" he looked, with beard, tzitis, hat, etc, or that he spoke Yiddish -- he is a RASHA who deserves to burn in Hell, and hopefully, someone will send him there, very soon.
Anyone who sees or knows anything should call the police or the Shomrim. The Shomrim do very good work in helping to keep the community safe by working with the police, and having them on the lookout increases the chances that this mamzer will be caught and will get what is coming to him.
And hopefully, when he is caught, we DON'T have anyone with a misguided sense of rachmones then trying to spring the guy from jail on the basis of "pidyon shevuim."
(Things like this have happened in the past). The Talmud tells us that he who is merciful to the cruel will end up being cruel to the innocent and the merciful, by inadvertantly helping the rodef to slay them.
96
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:38 PM Anonymous Says:
Ohy..Vee halt men shoin..Hashem yerachem
97
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:36 PM Anonymous Says:
I'm a women also & yes, it's very wrong but the women has to be careful too if she is dressed untznius & is attracting men & being machshil them she's at fault too if she is dressed untznius but that doesn't of course make the man right he is VERY wrong & this is a terrible horible thing to do no question about it.
98
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:34 PM J.J. Says:
I want to urge everyone to take self defense classes .
99
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:
To:July 5, 2007 11:29 AM
1) he is guilty as can be and should be punished to the fullest extend of the law.
we are יודין and we live by the laws of תורה as well as the laws of the U.S.A., דינא דמלכותא דינא
2) for the victim, i feel sorry she was attacked, it was an attampt which is a crime, but she was not raped.
3) now according to the תורה
which is a שמירה against the
יצר הרע only if you follow it but if you men and women think that you know better youll find out for yurself (like this one)
the יצר הרע job is to fool you in not obaying the laws.
men have hallacas not look at women why because a נדה is avery strong טמא that by just looking at a female it jumps to the looker or to the surrounding people even from the breath thats why men don't eat waht food leftovers from the woman and when the טומאה has jumped to it;s surrounders it is known as רוח שטות and
רוח זנות.
אין אדם חוטא אלא אם כן
נכנס בו רוח שטות
so to the punchline.
the attacker should be caught and punishedand do תשובה
the victim should be cautios and not take rides from strangers and only take the bus
also needs a כפררה like a סוטה meaning should do תשובה as well.
100
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:11 PM Anonymous Says:
Yes "seething", i think you are the only post that makes some sense.
101
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:06 PM Chana Says:
There is no justification for this incident. Period.
The man who did this is not frum. He is not a chasid. He is a rasha m'rusha. I doubt he is even Jewish.
That being said, to address some of the points above not related to this incident but of a general nature, a woman does NOT belong on the street. A woman must avoid being in a position where men will mistakenly look at them. A woman must avoid putting herself in a Yichud situation, in a car or elsewhere.
102
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:35 AM Seething Says:
To all you guys bashing the poor victim:
Open your eyes and mind for a few minutes here!! As a women, I just don't get this. A innocent female takes a ride, whether or not that is right is not the issue here! The point is that a heimish "frum" man attacked her and attempted a rape! That is evil, cruel, sick and inhumane no matter which way you look at it. Don't twist the story any other way! How dare you attack the victim herself for the torture she suffered? She did not sit into the car and said "rape me"!! The disgusting creep simply took advantage of the situation to commit his tremendous montrosity.
This is the same old tactic guys always use - blame the women. Are you all crazy? Would you steal bread and blame the food because it's good? Is this what the world is coming to? Agreed, it's not the safest thing to accept hitches from strangers, but how does detract from the rapist's guilt?? This behavior is morally reprehensible, no matter what the details are!
To all anti-woman fellows, maybe we stop making babies because it's not tznius? Or should we stay all day in beds so not to cross your path? I mean, come on, wake up and realize who's the blame here, and give the victim the support she needs. Seems like you're encouraging this despicable pig to keep up his work.
What chutzpah!
103
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:
Tracing this guy down would be a great challenge I am sure since had there been others at the hitching spot they would have been in the car before her as anyone who ever slowed down a bit knows that before you can even decide if you have room for maybe even one guy all your doors are open already with countless people squeezing in and leaving the door open never giving the poor woman standing in the rain waiting for the delayed bus standing in traffic on lee ave. a chance to get in. Let's imagine you had a decent guy "slam" the door shut and your off to "Bora paark" and you have a talk show on all of a sudden you’ll have some considerate fellow offering you a torah tape or request that you put the thing off! Never mind the chutzpah when they find out your exiting at Ft Hamilton Pkwy and they need 18th - maybe you can "please" take me to 18th?! A lot of these guys won't even warn you their exiting only when you give gas at the intersection some will shout the doors are wide open, but then there are people who will exit with a "zeits matzliach"! But getting back to the topic doesn’t Satmar have in their new shul (looks like a barn) they built in 2 weeks any cameras that could have maybe gotten a shot of the vehicle by chance? I am just trying to help.......
104
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:29 AM Anonymous Says:
To anon. 10:37
This "joke" that women shouldn't leave the kitchen is an old one, while it may be funny in other situations it was extremely inappropriate of you to post it here.
This women was a victim of rape, can you imagine how terrible that must be for her?
You really should be ashamed of yourself!!!
To all the other posters discussing the many issues of "tznius" this is the wrong place to be disscusing it.
A women was viciously ATTACKED, that can NEVER be her fault.
Even if someone walks around practically naked, it can never justify attacking them.
Therefore "Tznius" has nothing to do with it.
105
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:12 AM Anonymous Says:
To: July 5, 2007 10:57 AM
You will make a good Taliban leader in Afghanistan.
There they kill women when guys rape them because its always the womans fault.
According to the report he 1) Had a Knife 2) Took the Streets instead of the Highway 3) Told her he is lost and stopped the car to take his GPS system out of the back of the car when he entered the back of the car to attack her.
This guy had this whole thing planned out, this was pre-meditated.
Yet in your (twisted) mind it the womans fault!!!
106
Jul 05, 2007 at 11:01 AM Anonymous Says:
10:37, the only thing you deserve from your kitchen is poisoned food, you fool.
107
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:57 AM Anonymous Says:
To: July 4, 2007 11:41 PM
כל כבודה בת מלך פנימה
reb yochonon had a beatufil daughter and one of his talmidim said to reb yochonon he wants to look at her.
so reb yochonon told his daughter
return to earth,
meaning to return the נשמה
to hashem wile it is clean of עבירות. גדול המחטיאו יותר מהורגו
.by hallachah if a woman stands on the street while men are bypassing and she does not move across the street or be hidden. she carrys the עבירה of each individual meaning if lets say ten could not pass because shwas busy shmoozing and they pass looking בשוגג at her
than she has 10 עבירות and what is an עבירה the black bad מלאכים
which help create additional עבירות השם ישמרינו
והמבין יבין
108
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:49 AM Anonymous Says:
maybe it was President Katzav in disguise????
109
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:49 AM ME Says:
Whenever I pass by the Hitchhiker area on my way to Boro Park (or back) I always stop to pick up hitchhikers.
If I see women waiting too I make it a point to take the women instead of guys because whenever a car stops to pick up hitchhikers the men waiting there ambush the car regardless if the women waiting there were there before them, as though they were second class citizens (which is the case in many customs of the Hasidic culture, but lets not get into that topic here).
I always notice how the women are careful, i.e. they make sure to have at least one more woman or girl come along with them etc..
Occasionally a woman will not be as cautious and on a rare occasion a Hasidic guy will attempt a rape and when the two happen simultaneously stories like this happen.
I hope and pray that this woman recovers from this trauma, I also hope and pray that the guilty are caught and soon.
110
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:44 AM Anonymous Says:
There needs to be added more busses to the bp-will route, and yes, we need to make sure that the price is not going up, In Eretz-Yisroel they collect money for the mehadrin buses, In willi they used to collect money for the Tolaas yakkov busses they should the same for the b-willi route.
The buses schedule has to be more then 3 times an hour, at least every 15 minutes, the reason you hitch is because you missed the bus or you don’t wont to wait long for the bus (or you are afraid you will have to stand the whole way to bp or to willi, NOT BECAUSE MONEY
111
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:
Shomrim?!
אם השם לא ישמור עיר שוא שקד שומר
112
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:
This whole thing wouldn't have happened if she would have been where she belonged....in the kitchen.
113
Jul 05, 2007 at 10:15 AM HF Says:
She didnt need to spend $25 for a cab, she could have used mass transit. The Williamsburg-Boro Park bus line, which runs several times an hour and its only $2 or 2.50 per ride.
Trust no one.
Better be safe than sorry.
114
Jul 05, 2007 at 09:59 AM Anonymous Says:
To anon. 9:42 am
Please explain how untrained, inexperienced, Shomrim volunteers can do a better job catching a rapist, then trained, years of experience, Detectives with the world renowned N.Y.P.D. can.
I don't understand it.
They may do great things for the community, but this is a little out of their league don't you think?
115
Jul 05, 2007 at 09:42 AM Anonymous Says:
first of all. all important information are most probably by the detectives by now, we thank hashem that its not in our hands beacuase if it would be this person would be long gone by now, at the moment this man is walking around in our shulls saying a lot of tehillim he is sitting in shull much longer then he ever did in his entire life, beging hashem that he shoudnt be found.
the next thing is being busy with yidishkeit is a very nice thing but what a bout the venishmartem meoid lenafshoiseichem people dont think about SAFETY FIRST your SAFETY is the first thing a person needs to think, all peoples minds are todays day MONEY MONEY think about your SAFETY first if your going to be safe youll be able to earn money if youll be in the hospital like this woman. who will support your family,
Remember to tell your family and friends think about SAFETY FIRST YOUR SAFETY Is # 1
caliing the Shomrim is a very important factor in our times now with the mayor of NYC crime rate corruption the shomrim are the only ones that really fight for our community to make sure especcialy for these kind of reports it shoudnt get varnished and make sure that justice is served
YOUR SAFETY IS #1
116
Jul 05, 2007 at 09:12 AM Always moving Says:
To Pat:
I see that you "cruise" the posts and then post something semi-controversial, like you did to me on another story here on V.I.N.
Do you simply enjoy stirring the pot? "Get over yourself".
117
Jul 05, 2007 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:
Most of the comments here are very emotional. A Chashideshe man should do such a horrific thing. Some of the posts raised questions about the chances that this is a hoax. If the claim is true it is only adding insult to injury. However, you can bet that the investigators working on this case are looking at it analytically and not emotionally. There are many facts such as time frame, video cameras, victim questioning,eyewitnesses etc. that will be looked into. When a story is so bizarre it requires nothing less than such an approach.
Let's wait and see when all the pieces fall into place. Don't rush and blame the hitchhiker or the Chasidesh men out there. There's nothing to be gained by jumping to conclusions.
118
Jul 05, 2007 at 08:53 AM Pat Says:
8:32, How about respect Yiddishe men.
119
Jul 05, 2007 at 08:32 AM Anonymous Says:
At July 4, 2007 10:11 PM , Anonymous said
your nasty comments
As far as the lady goes she is an idiot anyway. THese people from Willy are so farfrumt about everything but when it comes to save 25.00 from taking a heimishe car service they would rather jepordize their own life and get ******just to save 25.00.
How about there is some poor peaople in town that barely have 25 cents in their pockets
how about its about time to stand up and respect the woman in our community and not to be abusive to any one
That prep guaranteed is one of those guys who are in Manhattan every other night cheating on their wife’s so why have mercy for that ugly guy it’s a shame he still carry’s a beard and payees and even talks Yiddish
Jail will not be enough to heal the damage but it will at least keep him contained that some one else should not get hurt
I would put that guy up on Americas most wanted www.amw.com
And please stop with the comments if woman should hitch hike or not – start talking about how can we respect more a yiddisher woman
120
Jul 05, 2007 at 06:14 AM Anonymous Says:
just like to point out that al pi halocho it could be forbidden to take a hitch with ANY man even if the lady does know him. Ein apotropos la'arayos
121
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:31 AM Anonymous Says:
Anonymous at July 4, 2007 10:27 PM said if they would dress motestly
according to the halachah of tznius
and would not be megareh b'yetzer horah, and not enter a car alone with a man inside which breaches the halachah of yichud as well
the avireh goreres avireh would be prevented.
I couldn't agree with you more the only question we have how was she dressed lets learn from this story.
Another thing Anonymous July 4, 2007 11:59 PM said This brings to mind another issue.The shnorrers who come to your door.Never open up the door.you have no idea what some of these guys are capable of.
You are SO right please nobody open their doors & don't talk to them there have be awful stories.
122
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:14 AM Anonymous Says:
Now a better question....the restuarants don't allow families to sit together...but a woman will get into a car alone with a strange man. Can someone please explain.....
A lot of people don't understand the real depth of Tznius. Going into a car can be Yichud specially at night.
123
Jul 05, 2007 at 04:10 AM Anonymous Says:
Anonymous at July 4, 2007 6:10 PM you are so right but neither is right & we are living in a very mixed up world.
124
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:48 AM Anonymous Says:
to 12:34
i hope your joking
125
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:39 AM Anonymous Says:
Some people have expressed skepticism that a Chasidishe man would do something like this. While it is no doubt extremely rare, let us not kid ourselves into thinking that it cannot ever happen.
There is an old Yiddish saying, ES ZUL ZICH NISHT TREFEN VOS ES TREFT ZICH. Again, it is extremely rare, but let's understand that it can happen and train our children (and naive adults) to be careful.
126
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:36 AM Anonymous Says:
I heard that her fingers were cut, and that tomorow she'll have surgery on it.
Any truth to that?
A gray mini van?!
finding a gray (silver) mini van in willi or in B.P. is like finding a drop of water in a lake! that's going to be a chalenge!
She should be able to give more clue's of this person, so the police can come up with a "scatch"!
(Can you believe a rapist's scatch of a heimishe?!)
As soon as she relaxe's a bit, she probebly would be able yo give more details IY"H. If she dident do it allready.
Hopefully some bystanders and camra's would offer some help.
This is clear, we have to do our best, to snatch this guy. maybe offer an award!
And when we catch him IY"H, they shall do onto him in such a way, that it should'nt even occur in someone's mind to copy him.
It's chiling!!!
127
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:34 AM Anonymous Says:
i dont think he is at fault
# 1) he probably took the knife to cut a piece of watermelon ("melone" bla"z)
# 2) he dident even see if it was a woman or not and before he knew it she was screaming alredy for help
so please understand him and dont jump to conclusions
a dank
128
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:09 AM Anonymous Says:
Why is it that people who know nothing about this incident other than the simple facts have to make up stories. Some, who know nothing, already decided that the woman did not dress modestly or that it's a another Tawana Brawley. It's sick and getting sicker out there.
Others have decided that if he's arrested, the Rabonim will protect him. There is no reason to believe this.
What kind of sick people do we have out there.
129
Jul 05, 2007 at 12:06 AM Anonymous Says:
Yes, anyone can have a "weak moment." But, to think of raping someone? This is beyond the pale. Yes, Ram Amrom Chosid screamed fire, fire, but he was not thinking of raping anyone. Shame on you for comparing the Holy Rav Amrum to this attempted rapisr
130
Jul 04, 2007 at 11:59 PM Anonymous Says:
This brings to mind another issue.
The shnorrers who come to your door.
Never open up the door.you have no idea what some of these guys are capable of.
131
Jul 04, 2007 at 11:44 PM Anonymous Says:
CHAZAL tells us ZOF GANOV LATALEEAYA it will surface the truth like oil on top of water and then we will fdind out the truth. WE HOPE and pray to HASHEM that ALL women will learn NOT NOT NOT to go in a hitch them self even with a man they know, what if the person had a weak moment? CAZAL TELLS US BY RAV AMROM CHOUSID stareted to SCREAM FIRE FIRE, so what shall we say?????????
132
Jul 04, 2007 at 11:42 PM Anonymous Says:
A QUOTE FROM REB AHRON KOTLER Z"L
The truth must be heard, Even if the public doesn't like the sound of it. Whatever the circumstances, regardless of the consequences. The truth must be stated-loudly, clearly & unequivocally".
133
Jul 04, 2007 at 11:41 PM Anonymous Says:
You can tell all anon's above are all "men".
I am a frum (williamsburg) woman who was also raped by a frum man who never paid for his actions cause everything and everyone in this ***** up community is in denial.
You have no clue what its like for a woman to be raped? Do you? Especially by a frum looking man who we are told to trust since birth!
I bet this comment wont be published. And you wonder why so many go off the derech...I cry for that woman!
That perv needs to rot in jail or maybe hell.
134
Jul 04, 2007 at 11:10 PM Anonymous Says:
It's intresting that there is no description of the guy, age, color etc. no desc of the car, color, model...
135
Jul 04, 2007 at 10:35 PM Expatriate Owl Says:
If the perp is smart, he will flee to Baltimore or Lakewood, so that maybe the rabbis there will cover for him and protect him from being arrested.
136
Jul 04, 2007 at 10:27 PM Anonymous Says:
if they would dress motestly
according to the halachah of tznius
and would not be megareh b'yetzer horah, and not enter a car alone with a man inside which breaches the halachah of yichud as well
the avireh goreres avireh would be prevented.
137
Jul 04, 2007 at 10:27 PM Anonymous Says:
If the police charged us for stupidity they would be millionaires.
----------------------------------
GUT GEZUGT UN TZOMM ZACH. finally a hit on the nail
138
Jul 04, 2007 at 10:22 PM Anonymous Says:
It does not make sense for a chasidishe man to do something like............
Chasisim have no yetzer hora?
What is with the " we have to hear what he has to say first"?
You sound like a clown.
Are you a liberal or just a fool?
Sitting in a car with a man, gee.... Was this family seating or sepearte seating?
The idiot who got permission from the rabonim to bring the perp to the police----just an idiot!
So you called the rav with your brilliant shailah and asked if a woman gets ***** if your should call the police?
What did you exactly think a rav would say? You do not even have to ask such a stupid question because it's a given that a jew is anot above the law.
139
Jul 04, 2007 at 10:11 PM Anonymous Says:
The reasaon for calling Shomrim is if they catch the mamzer first they will do what they have to do and this bumbwon't be rapi** anyone anymore.
As far as the lady goes she is an idiot anyway. THese people from Willy are so farfrumt about everything but when it comes to save 25.00 from taking a heimishe car service they would rather jepordize their own life and get ******just to save 25.00.
If the police charged us for stupidity they would be millionaires.
140
Jul 04, 2007 at 10:09 PM Anonymous Says:
The Shomrim have already spoken to the Rabbonim who all said that if he's caught he is to be turned over to the Police.
-----------------------------------
If you need shomrim to tell u that the rabonim told them that they should turn this guy over to police when they find him, then u have major problems. It simple common sence. Why does one need permission to turn over an attempted rapist? This is precisly why people get into trouble in the first place . It seems that people simply can not think or decide right from wrong. If a rapist enters your house at night, will u run to ask your rebbe or rav if you should call the police? I surly hope you dont give it too much thought.
141
Jul 04, 2007 at 10:02 PM Anonymous Says:
I think it's Tawana Brawley hoax #2 she probaly needed an excuse to her husband to why she came home late, she made up this ugly story,
142
Jul 04, 2007 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:
I guess the heimishe guy got desperate, being that his wife is away in the country.
143
Jul 04, 2007 at 09:19 PM Anonymous Says:
Let's not rush to accuse this haimishe man before he has a chance to defend himself. Let's hear ALL the facts first.
It doesn't make sense for Haimishe person to do such a thing - let alone a Chasidishe man.
144
Jul 04, 2007 at 08:55 PM Anonymous Says:
In Sullivan County on any given day, you can see Chasidic hitchhikers waiting for rides up and down every highway. It's not only dangerous, it's an ugly sight, and ... oh ... it's AGAINST THE LAW! ...but apparently we are above the law.
145
Jul 04, 2007 at 08:30 PM Anonymous Says:
July 4, 2007 6:30 PM said
547pm said
"Some people are more comfortable with talking to Shomrim rather than the Police".
And some people are more comfortable talking to other people instead of the police;
it doesn't make it a good idea.
let the police do there job.
And in the same post I said that the Shomrim will contact the PD. The police will be allowed to do their job. Going alone to the police can be a little overwhelming, and made easier with a familiar person to intervene.
If this will help people come forward so be it. Rather if someone knows something, they should tell the shomrim and not no one.
146
Jul 04, 2007 at 08:14 PM Anonymous Says:
I don't care what anyone has in their car..lights, sirens, circus animals.....A woman (certainly a frum woman) should NEVER get into a car with a man she doesn't know.
That is simple common sense, aside from the hundreds of Halachos, Chumros and Minhagim we have about these types of issues.
147
Jul 04, 2007 at 08:12 PM Anonymous Says:
Obviously there are some questions that need answers, as in every such story. However, unanswered questions do not lessen the severity of the situation it invovles.
148
Jul 04, 2007 at 08:12 PM Anonymous Says:
As far as a taking a hitch, a woman, girl, or bucher should not get into a car alone with a driver under any circumstance, even if he looks like the kanzipitzer rebbe!
149
Jul 04, 2007 at 07:51 PM Anonymous Says:
she went into car because she tought she saw light & siran, so she went into car, he took the the streets, he drove in under a over pass and told her that he is lost, and he has a GPS in his trunk, he went out of the car and thru the the back door he approuched her with the knife. Hashem Yerachem
150
Jul 04, 2007 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:
547pm said
"Some people are more comfortable with talking to Shomrim rather than the Police".
And some people are more comfortable talking to other people instead of the police;
it doesn't make it a good idea.
let the police do there job.
151
Jul 04, 2007 at 06:10 PM Anonymous Says:
Yes....there should be NO hitch hiking from W to BP, Flat to BP, NY to FL, from anywhere to anywhere, ever.
Now a better question....the restuarants don't allow families to sit together...but a woman will get into a car alone with a strange man. Can someone please explain.....
152
Jul 04, 2007 at 05:55 PM Anonymous Says:
Just wait and see, as soon as he is caught the rabbonim will force the woman to drop charges in order not to embarrass the family.
153
Jul 04, 2007 at 05:47 PM Anonymous Says:
The guy spoke a fluent Yiddish, so its unlikely that he was faking it. You can contact the NYPD direct if you desire. Some people are more comfortable with talking to Shomrim rather than the Police. The Shomrim have already spoken to the Rabbonim who all said that if he's caught he is to be turned over to the Police.
154
Jul 04, 2007 at 05:34 PM Anonymous Says:
And how exactly do you define a stranger? Are you calling an end to all hitchiking from Williamsburg to BP?
155
Jul 04, 2007 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:
I'm surprised to learn that a Williamsburg woman would even think of hitching a ride with any man under any circumstances.
156
Jul 04, 2007 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:
nucham is so right
157
Jul 04, 2007 at 05:22 PM Anonymous Says:
Why should people contact Shomrim and not the NYPD?
158
Jul 04, 2007 at 04:55 PM 123 Says:
Heimish chasidisha man
159
Jul 04, 2007 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:
was the guy hemish or was it an act to entice someone into his car
160
Jul 04, 2007 at 04:25 PM Anonymous Says:
Yes a plate is the most important thing. When there was a major home invasion in BKLYN, the perps were apprehended because a quick thinking bystander got a plate.
161
Jul 04, 2007 at 04:09 PM Anonymous Says:
Police was called and they have a description of a Grey mini van, but no plate number. Not a single witness had the common sense to write down the plate.
LESSON:
When you see something happen involving a car the first thing write down a plate number.
162
Jul 04, 2007 at 04:07 PM Anonymous Says:
THE LADY WAS HURT BY THE KNIFE AND REQUIRED MEDICAL ASSISTANCE.