Ulster County, NY - County Executive Hein In The Middle Of Satmar Summer Camp War |
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Ulster County Executive Mike HeinUlster County, NY - This story has been generating a lot of buzz on the Orthodox Jewish blogs, but has yet to break through to the mainstream press. It’s just a matter of time, though, and when it does, it’s going to be a pretty uncomfortable situation for Ulster County Executive Mike Hein.
Hein, a Democratic rising star who declined to challenge GOP freshman Rep. Chris Gibson in the newly-drawn NY-19, though he was the DCCC’s first choice to run, is smack in the middle of the latest battle between the infamous warring Satmar brothers: Aaron and Zalman.
The latest dispute has to do with four summer camps in Ulster County that were once collectively owned and run by the Satmar congregation. Even after the brothers went their separate ways in the late 1990s, the two sides somehow managed to avoid drawing the camps – and the kids they served from both communities – into their holy war that has put a number of lurcrative jointly-owned properties into limbo, thanks to a 2006 state Supreme Court decision.
Until now, that is.
These camps apparently require annual permits from the county Health Department in order to open. According to HasidicNews.com, both the Zalmanites and the Aaronites (or Aaronies, if you prefer) applied for, and recived, permits this year, which promptly touched off a massive dispute over whose permit was actually valid.
A source in the Hein administration disputes this report, saying no permits were ever actually issued to either side. Both have requested them, this source insists, but neither – so far – has received one.
Frustrated, Hein revoked both permits and urged the two sides to work out a compromise. Instead, both enlisted their various political patrons to lobby Hein on their behalf.
According to multiple sources, Assemblyman Vito Lopez, chairman of the Brooklyn Democratic Party and a longtime ally of the Zalman faction, has made at least two in-person trips to Hein’s office in Kingston. The Aaronites reportedly have Sen. Dan Squadron, a reform-minded Democrat, also from Brooklyn, on their side.
A reader with insight into this situation writes:
“The most important ally of the Aronites, pressuring for them, is Rep. Nydia Velazquez. This may have a real effect on her upcoming primary. (She’s being challenged by NYC Councilman Erik Dilan, who is backed by Lopez, who has long been an enemy of Velazquez). Squadron (is keeping a) low-profile in this battle, since he’s trying to maintain good relations with the Zalmanites – dominant Brooklyn group – as well.â€
Another reader notes that apart from these four disputed camps in Ulster County, the Aronites have one camp, and the Zalmanites have four camps in Sullivan County. But that’s not sufficient in either case, and now both communities need additional space for their children. The Aronites, in particular, are in a bad way, as they currently have no camp at all for their girls.
Also, it should be noted that the Zalmanites have been running the four Ulster County camps up to this point, so the disagreement is very recent.
I spoke to someone allied with the Aaronites over the weekend, who advocated in favor of a Solomonic split-the-baby decision that would leave both sides with something. But so far, no one appears willing to give much ground in this tug-of-war.
There’s a lot more than camps at stake here.
The Satmars like to claim that they can swing close elections by voting in a bloc (assuming they manage to actually turn out the vote, which is another story entirely). As a result, their support is highly sought after, and their interests often merit special attention in the halls of power – both in NYC and Albany – despite the fact that they are relatively small, numbers-wise, compared to other interest groups.
I did reach Hein yesterday, but he declined to comment on the record about this issue. He did say that there is no formal timeline for a decision, while also acknowledging that the inherent need to have this matter settled by the time school lets out, or several thousand Satmar kids will be stuck spending the summer in the sticky city.
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Read Comments (38) — Post Yours »
1
May 01, 2012 at 09:14 PM Wmsbg Says:Report as Inappropriate
The info in the first part of the article is not accurate, the Williamsburg side (R' Zalmen Leib) were running the camps the last 10 years, not as stated both sides together
2
May 01, 2012 at 09:32 PM FarvusNisht Says:Report as Inappropriate
#1, correct, and as a matter of fact, R' Zalmen's side is already working like in the past, since the camps were opened a few decades ago, in the camps, cleaning the grounds, opening the water, etc. Let's see if R' Aron's followers will really afford having 5000 kids stay in the city, and the entire upstate industry closed down, just because to show power...
Don't forget it will have a Domino style reaction, sullivan county will with no doubt be Yiden Free within the next 2-3 years if satmar stays in city....
Time will tell....
3
May 01, 2012 at 09:34 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Bemakom Sheyesh Chilul Hashem, Ain Cholkin Kavod Le'rav.
4
May 01, 2012 at 09:35 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
This article is clearly written by the aroiny side.
5
May 01, 2012 at 09:35 PM mnmnmn Says:Report as Inappropriate
as post 1 stated first part of article is wrong and zalmenites let the camps ALL years. #2 second part also not true stating that aronim don't have camp for girls. They do have a camp for their girls. MEM BEIS REISH.
6
May 01, 2012 at 10:08 PM Yups123 Says:Report as Inappropriate
#1 you might be right that it was used only by the zalonim The past 10 years
But by using them doesnt give them rights to the properties
Why don't the zalonim want to come to the bes din if they ar confident that it belongs to them
Obviously if they don't want to proceed bes din ..........
7
May 01, 2012 at 10:14 PM haltkup Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The info in the first part of the article is not accurate, the Williamsburg side (R' Zalmen Leib) were running the camps the last 10 years, not as stated both sides together ”
thats what it says read the article before you comment ,if they changed it my apologies
8
May 01, 2012 at 10:22 PM TRUTHFULL Says:Report as Inappropriate
This article is grossly misleading, while it is true that both sides tried vigorously with politicians to persuade Mr. Hein’s to issue the permits to their faction, it all came down to a recent court decision that the secular court can not decide to who is the rightful owner of the corporation CONG. YETEV LEV INC. who legally holds the deeds to those 4 camps, therefore Mr. Hein’s cannot legally issue a permit to one side without the consent of the other side, it is very clear that Mr. Hein’s hand are tied, and he has no power to intervene in this matter, therefore he has written several times to both sides that without negotiation between the 2 factions he will not be able to issue the necessary permits to open the camps and the only victims will be the innocent children,
Now, while the Aharonim are wiling to submit their dispute in front of a independent BETH DIN (a Jewish court), as required by Jewish law, and by the congregation by-laws, the Zalonim constantly refuse, they either request that this issue shall be submitted to their own RABONIM (who are their employees on their payroll) who are obviously not suited because they are not impartial, or are constantly proposing conditions after conditions, which the used as an excuse not to go to a DIN TORAH,
Frictions and disputes in the Jewish Chasidic community is not uncommon, It happened in BOBOV, KRASNE, VIZNITZ, TOLDOS AARON/TOLDOS AVRUM YITZCHOK, etc. and while all Chasidic organizations submitted their disputes in front of a impartial Beth Din, the only Chasidic organization that refuses to do so are the Zalonim, The Aharonim offered many times to submit their differences to a impartial Beth Din, and are wiling to sign SHTURAI BERIRIN (Arbitration proceeding), and the Zalonim are refusing, and now will turn to the media with hopes to put pressure on the county executive Mr. Heins, to issue the permits to their side, but as mentioned before, Mr., Hein’s is unable to comply to their demands, because this issue can only be resolved either by negotiating between themselves or by submitting the disputes to an independent BETH DIN without any pre-conditions,
9
May 01, 2012 at 10:37 PM eich Says:Report as Inappropriate
And the Internet is the problem!!! What a shame!!!
10
May 01, 2012 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Si'iz a charpa in a shande. R aron said he don't want to go to the internet kinus because zai velin redin english , or something about tziones. R zalmen said similar. How about not making such a chillul hashem oiyom venoireh ? , mixing into your dirty laundry every politician. Foi , foi. Shame shame. The moderene in hutz in plutz mit a kezayis kapel are better than you!! Don't baloney me this side is right or wrong. Sit down like menchen , and work out your differences!!.
11
May 01, 2012 at 10:54 PM Crazykanoiy Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is a Chilul Hashem of epic proportions and an embarrassment to Orthodox Jewry.
12
May 01, 2012 at 10:56 PM heimisheryid Says:Report as Inappropriate
#8:
Don't talk about Din Torah.
What about the din torah in Boro Park?
Why u Aroinim never bring the signatures from your people, as Bes Din request?
13
May 01, 2012 at 11:05 PM lanny Says:Report as Inappropriate
×ית דין ו×ית דיין
14
May 01, 2012 at 11:10 PM firsht Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The info in the first part of the article is not accurate, the Williamsburg side (R' Zalmen Leib) were running the camps the last 10 years, not as stated both sides together ”
The aroinis didn't bother the camps they wanted the Beis Din todecide to whom the hundreds of millions worth in properties belongs to but couple month ago the zaloinim tried to change the camps to a new Corp so that's when the Aroinis started to block the camps and hired a néw Camp director now the zalis claim that Rav Tov is keeping the old director the Aroinis say they have a New Director so the Health Department has a big problem with whom to deal
15
May 01, 2012 at 11:12 PM pinchas Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This article is grossly misleading, while it is true that both sides tried vigorously with politicians to persuade Mr. Hein’s to issue the permits to their faction, it all came down to a recent court decision that the secular court can not decide to who is the rightful owner of the corporation CONG. YETEV LEV INC. who legally holds the deeds to those 4 camps, therefore Mr. Hein’s cannot legally issue a permit to one side without the consent of the other side, it is very clear that Mr. Hein’s hand are tied, and he has no power to intervene in this matter, therefore he has written several times to both sides that without negotiation between the 2 factions he will not be able to issue the necessary permits to open the camps and the only victims will be the innocent children,
Now, while the Aharonim are wiling to submit their dispute in front of a independent BETH DIN (a Jewish court), as required by Jewish law, and by the congregation by-laws, the Zalonim constantly refuse, they either request that this issue shall be submitted to their own RABONIM (who are their employees on their payroll) who are obviously not suited because they are not impartial, or are constantly proposing conditions after conditions, which the used as an excuse not to go to a DIN TORAH,
Frictions and disputes in the Jewish Chasidic community is not uncommon, It happened in BOBOV, KRASNE, VIZNITZ, TOLDOS AARON/TOLDOS AVRUM YITZCHOK, etc. and while all Chasidic organizations submitted their disputes in front of a impartial Beth Din, the only Chasidic organization that refuses to do so are the Zalonim, The Aharonim offered many times to submit their differences to a impartial Beth Din, and are wiling to sign SHTURAI BERIRIN (Arbitration proceeding), and the Zalonim are refusing, and now will turn to the media with hopes to put pressure on the county executive Mr. Heins, to issue the permits to their side, but as mentioned before, Mr., Hein’s is unable to comply to their demands, because this issue can only be resolved either by negotiating between themselves or by submitting the disputes to an independent BETH DIN without any pre-conditions, ”
Ur so convincing just 1 question when the aronim took the grand rabbi in court, did it not occur to them the option of going to din torah. How about 10 yrs ago who took the zalis to court? Its no secret any chinese on the street can tell te difference of aroni and zali,its the good or the bad. Do teshuva NOW stop justifying urselves. Its never too late
16
May 01, 2012 at 11:13 PM UseYourHead Says:Report as Inappropriate
"I spoke to someone allied with the Aaronites over the weekend, who advocated in favor of a Solomonic split-the-baby decision that would leave both sides with something."
Say what? To the contrary - a Solomonic decision would involve one side get everything, and the other, nothing.
17
May 01, 2012 at 11:23 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This article is grossly misleading, while it is true that both sides tried vigorously with politicians to persuade Mr. Hein’s to issue the permits to their faction, it all came down to a recent court decision that the secular court can not decide to who is the rightful owner of the corporation CONG. YETEV LEV INC. who legally holds the deeds to those 4 camps, therefore Mr. Hein’s cannot legally issue a permit to one side without the consent of the other side, it is very clear that Mr. Hein’s hand are tied, and he has no power to intervene in this matter, therefore he has written several times to both sides that without negotiation between the 2 factions he will not be able to issue the necessary permits to open the camps and the only victims will be the innocent children,
Now, while the Aharonim are wiling to submit their dispute in front of a independent BETH DIN (a Jewish court), as required by Jewish law, and by the congregation by-laws, the Zalonim constantly refuse, they either request that this issue shall be submitted to their own RABONIM (who are their employees on their payroll) who are obviously not suited because they are not impartial, or are constantly proposing conditions after conditions, which the used as an excuse not to go to a DIN TORAH,
Frictions and disputes in the Jewish Chasidic community is not uncommon, It happened in BOBOV, KRASNE, VIZNITZ, TOLDOS AARON/TOLDOS AVRUM YITZCHOK, etc. and while all Chasidic organizations submitted their disputes in front of a impartial Beth Din, the only Chasidic organization that refuses to do so are the Zalonim, The Aharonim offered many times to submit their differences to a impartial Beth Din, and are wiling to sign SHTURAI BERIRIN (Arbitration proceeding), and the Zalonim are refusing, and now will turn to the media with hopes to put pressure on the county executive Mr. Heins, to issue the permits to their side, but as mentioned before, Mr., Hein’s is unable to comply to their demands, because this issue can only be resolved either by negotiating between themselves or by submitting the disputes to an independent BETH DIN without any pre-conditions, ”
A) What are you suggesting to go a BETH DIN (a Jewish court) like Bobov? What a shame from the Jewish BETH DIN why does the Bobov case drag on for over 7 years and there is still no verdict! BETH DIN is nowadays fully corrupted.
B) According to the Jewish law Zalonim are not required to go to a BETH DIN because the were dragged into the secular court by the aronim first; about 10 years ago.
18
May 01, 2012 at 11:31 PM satmer Says:Report as Inappropriate
Dr hiens ! You are in for a bunch phone , you took a very BIG size shoe ! You knew all along from all the past 50 yrs who runs this camps pray to g-d this should NOT hit you back big time soon , truth will allways come out !
19
May 01, 2012 at 11:31 PM iYeedel Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This article is grossly misleading, while it is true that both sides tried vigorously with politicians to persuade Mr. Hein’s to issue the permits to their faction, it all came down to a recent court decision that the secular court can not decide to who is the rightful owner of the corporation CONG. YETEV LEV INC. who legally holds the deeds to those 4 camps, therefore Mr. Hein’s cannot legally issue a permit to one side without the consent of the other side, it is very clear that Mr. Hein’s hand are tied, and he has no power to intervene in this matter, therefore he has written several times to both sides that without negotiation between the 2 factions he will not be able to issue the necessary permits to open the camps and the only victims will be the innocent children,
Now, while the Aharonim are wiling to submit their dispute in front of a independent BETH DIN (a Jewish court), as required by Jewish law, and by the congregation by-laws, the Zalonim constantly refuse, they either request that this issue shall be submitted to their own RABONIM (who are their employees on their payroll) who are obviously not suited because they are not impartial, or are constantly proposing conditions after conditions, which the used as an excuse not to go to a DIN TORAH,
Frictions and disputes in the Jewish Chasidic community is not uncommon, It happened in BOBOV, KRASNE, VIZNITZ, TOLDOS AARON/TOLDOS AVRUM YITZCHOK, etc. and while all Chasidic organizations submitted their disputes in front of a impartial Beth Din, the only Chasidic organization that refuses to do so are the Zalonim, The Aharonim offered many times to submit their differences to a impartial Beth Din, and are wiling to sign SHTURAI BERIRIN (Arbitration proceeding), and the Zalonim are refusing, and now will turn to the media with hopes to put pressure on the county executive Mr. Heins, to issue the permits to their side, but as mentioned before, Mr., Hein’s is unable to comply to their demands, because this issue can only be resolved either by negotiating between themselves or by submitting the disputes to an independent BETH DIN without any pre-conditions, ”
Hmmm, you seem to be very confident with what you're saying, its clear that you belong to one side of the argument.
Btw, the aroinem will agree to any type os settlement cus they don't have what to loose, they have their own camps well set, the reason of giving the headaches for the zalis is basically 'why not'.
20
May 01, 2012 at 11:45 PM satmarboy Says:Report as Inappropriate
why should Nydia Velazquez do something like that when she just add to her oppenent a big chance to win when rabbi Zelman has at least
21
May 01, 2012 at 11:50 PM ChareidiMan Says:Report as Inappropriate
If there is No Shalom everything else is irrelivent
22
May 02, 2012 at 12:21 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This article is grossly misleading, while it is true that both sides tried vigorously with politicians to persuade Mr. Hein’s to issue the permits to their faction, it all came down to a recent court decision that the secular court can not decide to who is the rightful owner of the corporation CONG. YETEV LEV INC. who legally holds the deeds to those 4 camps, therefore Mr. Hein’s cannot legally issue a permit to one side without the consent of the other side, it is very clear that Mr. Hein’s hand are tied, and he has no power to intervene in this matter, therefore he has written several times to both sides that without negotiation between the 2 factions he will not be able to issue the necessary permits to open the camps and the only victims will be the innocent children,
Now, while the Aharonim are wiling to submit their dispute in front of a independent BETH DIN (a Jewish court), as required by Jewish law, and by the congregation by-laws, the Zalonim constantly refuse, they either request that this issue shall be submitted to their own RABONIM (who are their employees on their payroll) who are obviously not suited because they are not impartial, or are constantly proposing conditions after conditions, which the used as an excuse not to go to a DIN TORAH,
Frictions and disputes in the Jewish Chasidic community is not uncommon, It happened in BOBOV, KRASNE, VIZNITZ, TOLDOS AARON/TOLDOS AVRUM YITZCHOK, etc. and while all Chasidic organizations submitted their disputes in front of a impartial Beth Din, the only Chasidic organization that refuses to do so are the Zalonim, The Aharonim offered many times to submit their differences to a impartial Beth Din, and are wiling to sign SHTURAI BERIRIN (Arbitration proceeding), and the Zalonim are refusing, and now will turn to the media with hopes to put pressure on the county executive Mr. Heins, to issue the permits to their side, but as mentioned before, Mr., Hein’s is unable to comply to their demands, because this issue can only be resolved either by negotiating between themselves or by submitting the disputes to an independent BETH DIN without any pre-conditions, ”
There is no such thing as an impartial Bes Din. It is easy to corrupt it simply by behind the scenes deals when hugh money is involved like this.
23
May 02, 2012 at 12:53 AM kjbjgirl Says:Report as Inappropriate
Until M. Witriol is Mr Heins personal the zalis will never have it. Just sit and watch the show till the end
24
May 02, 2012 at 12:56 AM kjbjgirl Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Si'iz a charpa in a shande. R aron said he don't want to go to the internet kinus because zai velin redin english , or something about tziones. R zalmen said similar. How about not making such a chillul hashem oiyom venoireh ? , mixing into your dirty laundry every politician. Foi , foi. Shame shame. The moderene in hutz in plutz mit a kezayis kapel are better than you!! Don't baloney me this side is right or wrong. Sit down like menchen , and work out your differences!!. ”
It will never happen. They are allowed and you are not allowed when your name will be teitelbaum you can do whatever you feel like and since it ain't sit and hush
25
May 02, 2012 at 12:58 AM ShmutzVesh Says:Report as Inappropriate
Please dont let this forum become a place for all you zalmites, chelmites, aronites, termites...whatever you call yourselves to fight with each other!!!!
26
May 02, 2012 at 08:09 AM moshestein Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ A) What are you suggesting to go a BETH DIN (a Jewish court) like Bobov? What a shame from the Jewish BETH DIN why does the Bobov case drag on for over 7 years and there is still no verdict! BETH DIN is nowadays fully corrupted.
B) According to the Jewish law Zalonim are not required to go to a BETH DIN because the were dragged into the secular court by the aronim first; about 10 years ago. ”
Sorry but you are a little misinformed therfore you want to distroy the besdin. Besdin in Bobov wanted to sattle 5years ago on a 40/60 split in assets but 45 would have to change their name and they didn't want to accept this therfore they dragged it back to the dintorah.
So the problem is........
27
May 02, 2012 at 08:30 AM DB_from_LI Says:Report as Inappropriate
As the song goes "C'mon people now, Smile on your brother Ev'rybody get together Try and love one another right now".
(tic)Thank goodness we KNOW that it's our Tznius issues etc. that are bringing Tzaros to the world. As long as we fix that Klal Yisroel is in great shape.
28
May 02, 2012 at 09:21 AM maxedout Says:Report as Inappropriate
Its so nice to see such ahavas yisroel between 2 blood brothers (sarcastic). They and all their followers should be ashamed. You guys do worlds of chesed, yet you just cant get along amongst yourselves. Sad.
29
May 02, 2012 at 09:27 AM NJ_Mom Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ If there is No Shalom everything else is irrelivent ”
There will never be shalom until there is tolerance. And since tolerance is not taught in chasidishe schools, there is plenty of chilul hashem going around.
30
May 02, 2012 at 09:38 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
First of all to number two are you out of your mind ?! If satmar doesn't go to the mountains it will be yidden free?! Satmar are not the only Jews out there tge mountains are full of other yidden frummer than
Satmar.
The real reason that the rebbe doesn't want anyone to go to the Asia is tgst if chas vsholom they hears words of Torah from the "moderena" or "litvishe tzionim"
It will threaten the stupidity of "שיטת ×¨×‘×™× ×• or enter דיעת
31
May 02, 2012 at 10:03 AM TRUTHFULL Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Ur so convincing just 1 question when the aronim took the grand rabbi in court, did it not occur to them the option of going to din torah. How about 10 yrs ago who took the zalis to court? Its no secret any chinese on the street can tell te difference of aroni and zali,its the good or the bad. Do teshuva NOW stop justifying urselves. Its never too late ”
1) The Aharoinim never called the grand rabbi to court, the grand children of the grand rabbi just brought a court proceeding to free their grand father from some hooligans who held the rabbi captive against his will, they would not allow the grand rabbi attend the weddings and other SIMCHOS of his grand children,
32
May 02, 2012 at 10:07 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
How can you expect gentiles to respect Yidden, if we don't even respect our very own brothers. HYPOCRITES!!!!!
33
May 02, 2012 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
And the Aronin only have 1 camp blah blah blah…
The real reason why the Aharoinim only have one camp is because they are only 30% percent in Williamsburg and they don’t need more then one camp.
Look at the statistic of how many kids learn in the Williamsburg satmar yeshivas and you will realize that Zalonin are the majority in Williamsburg.
34
May 02, 2012 at 11:16 AM smart alack Says:Report as Inappropriate
What a kiddush hashem!! Two "rebbes" fighting over money!! It's unbelievable I thought that we davened to hashem to take away the teivah for idolatry, yet what is clear is that the idol is no longer a statue but a piece of green paper with a president's name on it. The only shevet no involved in the chet haegel was shevet levi, the tzadikim of the generation. Now even shevet levi is bowing down to this idol!!
these "Rebbes" should be ashamed of themselves.
35
May 02, 2012 at 11:35 AM Wmsbg Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Sorry but you are a little misinformed therfore you want to distroy the besdin. Besdin in Bobov wanted to sattle 5years ago on a 40/60 split in assets but 45 would have to change their name and they didn't want to accept this therfore they dragged it back to the dintorah.
So the problem is........ ”
And how about the Satmar-BP Din Torah? Satmar-Bnei Brak Din Torah? The Dayunem just make another meeting and another meeting, cost of each is $100,000, why go to Din Torah again?
36
May 02, 2012 at 11:39 AM Wmsbg Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ First of all to number two are you out of your mind ?! If satmar doesn't go to the mountains it will be yidden free?! Satmar are not the only Jews out there tge mountains are full of other yidden frummer than
Satmar.
The real reason that the rebbe doesn't want anyone to go to the Asia is tgst if chas vsholom they hears words of Torah from the "moderena" or "litvishe tzionim"
It will threaten the stupidity of "שיטת ×¨×‘×™× ×• or enter דיעת ”
If the Satmar camps will be closed, multiple "Chasidic Bungalow Colonies" will be closed, since they don't have place in the small bungalows for all their children.
That means the grocerys loosing costomers, bakerys and all stores in the mountains will loose big money, including Ulster County
37
May 02, 2012 at 05:01 PM LoveHashem Says:Report as Inappropriate
I, for one, have not been able to understand, since the split between the 2 brothers took place, how any Satmar individual could be a Chasid of either one of the 2 "Rebbes!" How on earth can u look up to, follow, respect and hold from any Rebbe who is holding such an obvious feud with his own brother?! Their father, ZT"L is probably turning over in his grave!
38
May 02, 2012 at 06:28 PM FmrBklynKid Says:Report as Inappropriate
Does anyone other than these whacko's really care about this?