New York – It is an event that unfortunately, has been in the blogosphere headlines, not for its potentially lofty message but rather for the sideshows and distractions surrounding it. The latest of these diversions we can call “The Third Wave.”
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The idea for the Citi Field Kinnus was to present how best to deal with the challenges of the internet – a challenge that has caused enormous damage to the spiritual well-being of Klal Yisroel. The easy access to the pornographic content readily available on the internet, not to mention the lashon harah, rechilus, and motzi shem rah, have been a source of pain and challenge to thousands of Torah homes. This event was designed to show how to best confront those challenges.
Invariably, such an event fosters criticisms and questions. Why did we not give these strategies years ago? Why do we not have heart to heart talks with our children as to what to do when pornography and the like, pop up on our screens? Why did we not develop effective filtering techniques combining physical lock and key methods with filters on routers, browsers, and computers?
These criticisms and questions comprised the first wave of the sideshows. Some of these points may be, in fact, very valid. But the first wave on the blogosphere involved the predictions that no one would show up, unless they forced people to come, and the conjectures as to what would be said at the event.
The second wave of the sideshows involved the tumulting as to who exactly would partake in the event and who would not.
Then came the third wave of the sideshows and distractions. This one, unfortunately, involved character assassinations of leaders in Klal Yisroel.
A delegation of Rabbis involved in helping to build support for the Citi Field event approached Rav Aharon Ttielbaum, the Satmar Rebbe in an attempt to encourage him to join the event. Rav Matisyahu Solomon, the Skulener Rebbe, the Vinner Rav and Rav Malkiel Kotler Rosh HaYeshvia of Lakewood went to speak to him.
Reports were made of the exact conversation. Supposedly, Rav Malkiel explained that all of Klal Yisroel was participating and that Satmar Rebbe should too. Satmar Rebbe allegedly asked Rav Malkiel if Lubavitch was participating. The scurrious report has Rav Malkiel allegedly answering that they were not participating because “they were not a part of Klal Yisroel.”
Then, fingers were pointed that if it did not happen why didn’t Rav Malkiel deny it?
The fact is, however, that he did deny it and he did so several times. He denied it to others when he first heard of the reports, to other Hanhallah members of BMG, and to family members as well. Indeed, this author was told by BMG CEO R’ Aharon Kotler how distressed he Rav Malkiel was at the
mis-information that was reported and that, he must immediately issue the enclosed statement” to counter the mischaracterization.
The rule of thumb whenever you hear of a strange type of conversation is to ask oneself whether it makes sense. Does it make sense that Rav Malkiel would say such a thing, even in banter, in front of many dozens of other people? It especially does not make sense when we consider that there are numerous Lubavitch Talmidim in Beis Midrash Gavoha and supporters across the country.
This is not to say that Rav Malkiel does not consider the meshichist movement to be a grievous error in the direction of a substantial segment of Lubavitch. But the misinformation must certainly be corrected. Nor is it simply mis-information. The fact that in one of the news sites Rav Matisyahu Solomon, was both stripped of the title of Rabbi and further described as “hate-mongerer Matisyahu Solomon” is appalling and indicative of the unspeakable level of decency to which we have fallen.
It should be unnecessary to state that Rav Matisyahu Solomon is one of the Gedolei Hamussar of our times, who dedicates himself b’Laiv V’Nefesh to Klal Yisroel. His participation in this event is indicative of his sincere Ahavas Yisroel – especially when we realize the precarious state of his health and that of other family members.
So what really did transpire between Rav Malkiel and Rav Aharon?
Rav Malkiel did respond that Lubavitch was not participating and that normally they do not partake in these tyope of activities.
Denigrating our Torah leaders and scholars with misquotes and lashon Horah does not bring us to greater Dveikus Bashem. Indeed, the very Asifah under discussion was designed to deal with and prevent this very scenario. It was conceived to stop the type of lashon Harah and character assassination that these Torah leaders are now experiencing.
The author can be reached at [email protected]
so does this kasher vin?
I know Im gonna take flak for this but it must be said. the Messiahnists in Lubavitch are Chutz Leparged. they are Ausvorfs. they are no better than X-tians. They are totally off the wall. get the drift? No bones about it. They can quote texts from today till tomorrow, they are not part of klall Yisroel until they come to their senses.Meanwhile, they are Apikorsen, Choteh Umachteh es Harabbim. They will burn in the deepest part of Gehinnom.
R’ Salamon is a Tzaddik and a Bal Mussar and a Godol Hador.
Whoever caused the current rift and Machlokes in Satmar or bobov or any other similar Chassidus is almost on the same level as the Messiahnists. Whatever their arguments Lishmah, their path to Machlokes and Chillul Hashem will cause them to burn in the next to deepest parts of gehinnom. Better they should have stayed with the status quo than succumb to their Yetzer Harah and Taiveh for kovod and Momon. The elder rebbis are turnng in their graves. the Pgam they have placed on Klall Yisroel will never be forgotten or forgiven. Lo Zu Haderech. Maybe they would died with less money, or real estate, or Talmidim, but what they are doing is Keneged Hatorah. Now for the flak.
“This is not to say that Rav Malkiel does not consider the meshichist movement to be a grievous error in the direction of a substantial segment of Lubavitch.”
What does this mean?
and WHY did the satmar rebbe want to know? Cuz he wanted to make sure that truly all segments attend or to refuse participation if chabad takes part……
Reb Aron himself said yesterday berabim at a shier in kolel that those rumors about Rav Kotler is Shayker and it was never said by anyone at his table…
1) this letter is not the regular yeshiva stationary.
2) why wasn’t it signed?
3) the letter doesn’t refute the claim that “they are not part of klal yisroel”.
4) sounds like this letter is to calm their chabad financial supporters.
5) weather it was said or not- nobody knows since all laymen were sent out of the room when it was supposedly said. Doubt anybody there would come out and contradict him.
Good thing the internet is around to correct these rumors.
look at what he created
VIN News keep up the good work!
It’s always refreshing to be on the right side of history…!
The question is, did he ask Lubavitch to join the event?
The facts are Satmar traditionally never joins these events, but they were asked.
Lets call a spade a spade.
Lubavitch was not asked, because they are not wanted there.
Before we can fix the internet problem we need to fix OUR Ahavas Yisroel Problem.
THIS STATEMENT GOES ON EVERYONE!
When was the last time SUCH AN EVENT took place??????
Like newpapers and radio and tv, internet will eventually be adopted for good things. Asifos do nothing but prove helplessness and powerlessness. Would you rather we be llike the Amish driving horse and buggy and having no telephone or radio? get sed to the new age and use it to further Torah. Postponing the inevitable.
#7 - No flak. You said it like it is.
Lame lame…
If you hold something don’t try to cover it up!!
Maybe there’s a reason your arguments don’t stand a chance in the public eye.
Lakewood: it’s time to give it up, chabad is here to stay and there’s alot to be learned from them!!
Oh, and someone remind the last event of this kind…?
The painful irony here is that the Big Asifa has itself resulted in massive amounts of lashon hora, motzi shem ra, and chillul Hashem – thus acutely illustrating one of the major challenges that the Internet has brought upon us – its sheer freedom of communications and total anonymity.
This is not BMG stationary……… Where is the Rosh Yeshiva’s signature?
The whole story makes no sense whatsoever. I don’t believe the Satmar Rebbe asked such a thing and for sure that the Rosh Yeshiva would have ever said such a thing.
There are remnants who are fighting a fight of the 70s when in fact the war has been over for quite some time.
Gezugt het ehr gezugt, gemaint hut ehr oich, de bloggers muz mehn farmachen-join us all at citifield.
How did a 4 lined letter turn into a whole article… it seems that rabbi Hoffman would be adding in his own opinions of Lubavitch, that whilst are important to know, should not be written as if on behalf of rabbi kotler.
And it doesn’t say anywhere that Lubavitch was invited, yet refused. Seems like a big assumption on his part…
Just for the Record..Reb Aron arranged the FIRST tea party for Shulem Rubashkins defense in KJ and raised $133,000 that evening….Yes Reb Aron does have a close friendship with Chabad and also with Rav Kotler…Rav Kotler has been a strong supporter and friend for Both Satmers and he clearly understands the Rebbes position….
” Official Authenticated Statement directly from BMG Rosh Yeshiva, Harav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler. “
This does seem like a properly formatted emergency action message
message is authentic. – I concur, sir.
1) I see how suddenly Lakewood and Satmer feel a need to respond to websites and blogs.
2) if Rabbi Kotler is so against Mishchistim why is there a picture of him walking hand in hand with the head mishichest of NJ.
With that said I do think it was wrong for this supposed statement of him to go viral especially during sefira and that the source was some random blog who heard the info 3rd hand.
Lubavitch needs to shape up…the messhichistim will be running Crown Heights and the whole chassidus in ten years if swift action isn’t taken soon. The rest of the klal won’t accept them until the “fringe” (not so much of a fringe anymore) is dealt with.
Those bloggers are terrible, to have a hava amina that ALL of Klal Yisroel would include anyone other than Lakewood, Agudah, and (Boro Park, Monsey, and Monroe) Chassidim!
Chabad Lubavitch has traditionally not formally participated in such events.
did we ever have such an event. why didnt they try to approach the rabbunim of chabad maybe in such an important time they would participate ?
do you believe that the roshei yeshivos would go to chabad rabbunim ?
All these things are being “marbeh machlokes” in Yisroel! Any good that might have come out of this Kinnus will be wiped out because of this (I hope I’m wrong)
That is the ONLY FACT that really matters.
Saddly, our manhigim, Rebbes, etc.. are more intentent on their “personal” hold on power then bringing Klal Yisroel together.
It is a well known fact that if there is Shalom in Klal Yisroel, that ALL can be and will be forgiven. If They would put half the effort into making shalom amongst themselves there wouldn’t be a need for these huge Kinnus Asiefoh.
They would lead by example and Klal Yisroel would follow.
When is the last time that “such an event” was held, that one can say “that normally they do not partake in these tyope of activities”. To the best of my knowledg this is the first time that such an event is taking place.
2. Assuming that the intentions of creating this event are to help out the whole of klal yisroel, then lubavitch would be asked to joing this event (with the hope that this time they might just agree to join).
Eg. If one has a brother that doesn’t useally join parties, one would most definately invite and try convince his brother to join his parents 50th wedding anniversary…
if theres so much hate against it, why not just cancel the whole thing? they already raised much more than the cost of renting the facility, who is getting those proceeds? give it all to the tzedaka and sell your filters elsewhere
What is sad is that these things take us away from anb appreciation of how much Torah is being learned in our times and an appreciation of the Torah of Rav Aharon, Rav Malkiel and Rav Matisyahu..
While most everyone agrees the pornography is whats been most harmful part of the internet trapping our brethren and breaking up homes when the wives find it, another very serious and dangerously sinful area is the blogs. You may not take take it seriously and think it’s just harmless entertainment but i tell you for a fact that the zilzul rabbunim you read on the blogs is 100% an aveira and contributing with your own comments is even worse. Do not be mekabel What you read no matter who posted it. that person has issues of his own he’s looking to ease by spreading dirt about others. they will be held accountable for a big share of this terrible aveira of makingg other yidden sin. But don’t add to it. Your oilam haba is at stake.
Does anyone know in brookklyn someone to contact to help install filters?
1) The blogger who first posted this scurrilous information speaks for no one but himself. He is no one and nothing in Chabad or anywhere else – he is but a mecharcher riv and wannabe “historian.” He is probably unhappy that he was not given a hero’s welcome when he came to Chabad from a family with some vague affiliation with the Ingarisch Chassidish world, so he, like the OTD bloggers, just tries to get attention by being outrageous in fighting battles that do not exist.
2) Sadly, the Chabad blogs, none of which are officially linked to any Chabad organization, are run by rank amateurs who will regurgitate anything controversial with the word Chabad in it. One blog does a great job covering crime, but takes the rest of its news from wherever it can. The other one is “Chabad lite” and just an ad for its owners’ outside projects. Then, there is the extreme meshichist site that is linked to a man who is reviled in Chabad for promoting violence.
This was a case of the entire peanut gallery picking up yellow (or brown) “journalism” of the old Chofetz Chaim Shoulson style without checking facts. Bemakoim sheein ish, hishtadel lhiois ISH, not Tzig or Ferd.
kotler was heard to say “id rather daven beyechidus (alone) than with a lubavitch minyan”.
the least he cudda done is invite lubavitch and worse case scenario they wudda declined.
what wud it have cost him?a stamp?a phone call?his honor?
I want to c a letter asking for forgiveness
and rabbi hoffman,talk about a one sided letter…
we all know that no matter what internet filter u will have if s/o wants to he will always find a way around his filters The ONLY solution to this problem and all other ones affecting our community is teaching our kids and ourselves Ahavas Hashem Hashem likes us regardless If one will have ahavas hashem he will be able to with stand temptation and if he falls he will know hashem still likes him and will try to get better Filters are a good thing and most definatley needed but w/o a person having ahavas hashem these filters will never protect those that want a way around it Let all the school/yeshivas start teaching the students ikrei emunah ,ahavas hashem and watch our kids GROW and see how many less will go off the derech Schools are afraid they wont have the proper answers BRING IN THE PROFESSIONALS but get the movement started and then there will be NO NEED for any more asifos of any kind
#49 gets it pretty much on the money – the most reviled site is the meshcist site that is just a rotten eye sore whatever.
SOmeone mentioned the head shliach meschist in NJ? I don’t believe there are any in NJ but I might be wrong.
There is a legitimate debate within Chabad over the question of whether or not the late Rebbe might return as Moisiach and it is a concept that many have a hard time comprehending. There are also many within Satmar and other chassidus as well as most misnagdim who reject the notion that Rav Schneerson, z’tl, will return as Moisiach. However, this debate is separate from the issue of protection against priztus on the internet. The latter is a much more important question than whether Moisiach is Lubavitch, Satmer, Bobover or Vishnitz.
Well, the fact is – Lubavitch does NOT attend these events! Some individual Lubavitchers might.
Assuming ANY of this is true, Reb Aron wasn’t too interested either and just mentioned Lubavitch to show that other groups beside his own were not interested.
R’ Malkiel Kotler and even his father AH were never associated with anti-Chabad sentiment. The irresponsible blogger decided to report a Ponim Chalashos style “I heard it in the mikveh” story to get 15 minutes of undeserved fame.
Everyone has his job to do and his way of doing it – and that’s that. Only those with time on their hands and not much of a job of their own worry about the next one’s job and how he is doing it.
forget if the rosh yeshiva did make the commant or not why was chabad not asked to join isn’t the point of this ashifa to be all of klal yisroel together instead of each party making their own so we can have the inyan of lech knos es kol hayudim not be mfuzar umfored ben haamimm
There’s is no hatred toward Chabad. I love every single Jew.
However, if someone bows down to the Rebbe’s picture, believes that he is the Messiah, or that he’s still alive, then that’s NOT JUDAISM , ITS SOMETHING ELSE and its a very big problem.
It’s time for Chabad to rise up against this , you could do all the mitzvos , but if you believe that hes still alive.or Gd then that’s what Jews for J believe in.and thats a problem.
The statement “did they invite lubavitch ” alludes to the fact that you believe lubavitch does their own thing and is not part of klal yisroel .ask yourself this, was i invited ?the delegation didnt come down to me ?why should lubavitch assume theyre not included in the” everyone” that the advertisements are targeting .the reason why they go to all the other sects is because, if their rabbi is not for it they dont go, and to push the rabbis to be for it ,lubavitch does not have a rebbe now, so they fall into the category of everyone else who didnt get a personal invite (unless you believe the rebbe is still alive)
I’m not a Lubavitcher but I know them well and I respect them all, regardless if they are hidden or public Meshichist.
Here is the fallacy that people don’t realize. Some people mistakenly think that some Lubavitchers believe the Rebbe is Moshiach and that some don’t.
I have interviewed many Lubavitchers from both sides and it’s quite clear that All Lubavitcher believe the same thing only that some are proud of what they believe and are not ashamed to admit it openly, while others think that if they keep their belief a secret, they hope to be able to fool someone.
I respect Chabad’s beliefs and it’s in the Gemara that there is nothing wrong with any group of Talmidim believing that their Rebbe is Moshiach, regardless if he is alive or not. Rabbi Hirshprung Zatzal, chief Rabbi of Canada and many other Gedolim confirmed this.
Being that we are in the season of of Sefira which calls for Achdus, I would recommend that we all show solidarity with Chabad, by NOT attending the Asifa, unless Chabad is invited and participates (regardless of the Lakewood “apology”). Apologies are irrelevant. Action of Participation, shows the true colors of Achdus vs Racism and Sinas Chinum to Chabad.
I think that after this kinnus there should be another one – maybe in the same place and this kinnus should be a kinnus how to combat loshon hora and rechilus in these turbulent times.
Forget the internet asifa, keep the asifa, but make the asifa for ahavas yisroel, and have chabad and R Kotler sitting side by side and davening to bring Moshiach together!
Lets call a spade a spade. Not all Lubavitch believe the Rebbe is moshiach!!!! The whole mishugas started unfortunatley after the Rebbe ZL had a stroke.When the Rebbe was well no one had the chuztpa to say Yechi . The Rebbe would have put them in there place. Lets be honest the Rebbe was very articulate in what he wanted, by example puting on tefilin with people and other campaigns such as making sure people had kosher mezuzos etc. I chalenge anyone to show me where the Rebbe asked his chasidim to go out and proclaim him moshiach. The meshiachists will brandish a few sichos out of hundreds that might alude according to their convoluted interpatation that the Rebbe aluded to himself being moshiach. The Rebbe zl wasnt bashful if thats what he wanted he would have said clearly I want my Chasidim to say yechi and the whole nine yards. It is very painful to admit when the Rebbe had the incompasitating stroke the chasidim grasped at straws and sang yechi myself included. Today anyone who continues this insults the Rebbe and all that he stands for. In regards to the rally no one knows what was said. What is known is that Lubavitch askonim asked to participate and were turned down.
Let’s take the verbatim of his statement:
“It was noted” “that Chabad Lubavitch has traditionally not formally participated in such events.”
“This was chas v’shalom not intended”
“Any other inference or understanding of what was said”
So he is a modeh bmiktsas. He said that it WAS noted that Chabad… and their statements about chabad at the meeting weren’t intended… any inference in what WAS said…
So, let’s stop pretending that Rabbi Kotler didn’t say anything exclusionary of Chabad as he clearly admits he has, he merely claims his statements were much more benign than the blogs first reported.
Not only were these words NOT denied, this “apology” was a joke.
lets go back to the begining!
(Sanhedrin 98b):
“Rav said ‘If he [Moshiach] is from the living, [then he is] like Rabbeinu Hakadosh [Rabbi Yehuda Hanassi]; if he is from the dead, [then he is] like Daniel, the delightful one.’ ” (also See Maharsha).
Based on the Talmud quoted above, the Sdei Chemed–an encyclopedic work by the renowned Halachic authority Rabbi Chaim Chizkiya Medini–quotes approvingly (Pe’as Hasadeh, Maareches Ha’alef, 70) a long letter by Rabbi Aryeh Leib Lipkin (grandson of “Hagahos Ben Aryeh” published in Vilna ShaS), where he explains–among other fascinating points concerning the ultimate Redemption–that if we have sufficient merit, then Moshiach will be “from the dead”!
The Midrash (Bamidbar Rabba 11:3) says that the future Redeemer will be revealed, then concealed, then revealed again. This is quoted by Rabbeinu Bachayei and by the Chasam Sofer on the Torah (both at end of Parshas Shmos). The latter writes: “This is a great test that the Redeemer is concealed [Moshe] . . and so it will be at the time of our righteous Moshiach [that] he will be concealed after [his] revelation, as mentioned in the Midrash.”
From the Zohar (Shmos 8b)
–as explained in Zohar Harakiya and Shaar Hagilgulim (ch. 13, both by the ARI-Zal, Rabbi Yitzchak Luria, one of the greatest Kabbalists)–it is clear that the man designated to be Moshiach is born naturally in this world, then the soul of Moshiach in the heavenly “Garden of Eden” is bestowed upon him so that he realizes that he is Moshiach, then he becomes concealed, ascending to heaven, and only afterwards is he revealed to the full extent, the whole Jewish people recognizing him as Moshiach.
Don Yitzchak Abarbanel, who wrote three lengthy works about the Scriptural prophecies and our Sages’ sayings concerning Moshiach and the Geula, writes in Yeshuos Meshicho (Jerusalem, 5753, p.104) that it is possible that Moshiach will be taken from this world and brought into the heavenly “Garden of Eden,” continuing: “You should not find it difficult [to understand] that the King Moshiach will be among those who arise in the Resurrection,” quoting the above Talmudic passage (Sanhedrin 98b) as proof that this can be so. Here we see the same three stages of revelation, concealment and revelation.
will anyone consider to stop putting on tefillin if goyim start?
Rabbi Hoffman, thank you for a most thought provoking article. It behooves us all who believed this rumor in the first place to look into ourselves and ask ourselves how we were able to believe it. It is a sad phenomenon that we are so accepting of gossip and negativity. As Rabbi Hoffman wrote, it simply doesn’t make sense. Rabbi Kotler is not known for his stupidity. He could never have said such a thing. It is time for the readership of VIN to start being a beacon of positivity and stop all this divisiveness once and for all. Let’s call a spade a spade. The Internet Asifa is being organized to combat a huge huge problem (yes there are many other problems). Let everyone stop looking and analyzing every side of everything around it and focus on the intended goal. Get real people. This is not a filter company marketing technique. That is a very petty thought that I don’t think anybody wants to be accused of making. Does Klal Yisroel have other problems that need to be dealt with (Achdus amongst them)? Absolutely!! Let us join together at Citi Field in solidarity with out rabbonim and gedolim and let’s learn a thing or two. I for one, will. Chazak V’eematz!!
The letter is an outright fraud “ziyuf”. It’s not BMG’s stationary. It’s not proper English. It says nothing of substance. It’s not signed. It should have been a hebrew letter of appology. the Rosh Yeshiva can’t just go against Reb Ahron and Rav Shach. Do they think everyone is so gullible?