New York – After months of equivocal statements about Agudath Israel’s longstanding position that — with very limited exception — child sexual abuse allegations must first be investigated by rabbis, the Brooklyn district attorney has issued a clear warning to the haredi umbrella organization that its policy puts rabbis at risk of running afoul of the law.
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According to a spokesman for Charles Hynes, “DA Hynes told Dovid Zwiebel [Agudah’s executive vice president] that it was a mistake to advise someone with information about child abuse to first speak with a rabbi,” Jerry Schmetterer told The Jewish Week. In doing so, Schmetterer continued, “Zwiebel … risks having the rabbi prosecuted for obstructing a law enforcement investigation.”
When asked by The Jewish Week to clarify what someone should do if he or she had information about allegations — rather than “information” — about abuse, Schmetterer said the individual should “report [the allegations] to authorities for investigation.”
That would be nice they could have their daf yomi, glatt kosher and discuss sexual abuse on minors
Ah the Jewish Week – you never fail to Blast an negative Headline against the Hareid community.
what a earth shattering CHILLUL HASHEM,it has come to this absurd situation,that the secular government has to protect us jews from our own RABBONIM,who insist on protecting child molesters,
this warning should have been issued 40 years ago,but i guess “later is still better than never”, Thank you Mr.Hynes
It seems strange that the Agudath, with one issue only, the issue of child abuse, has taken a Halachik position, more then any other issues, such as using the Eiruv in Flatbush, and eating fish with worms.
Historically, Agudath has never been a posek, and reporting abuse to police before going to a Rabbi is a serious Halachik question, with a potential grave violation of Lo Taamod Al Daam Raiacha. The facts have already proven, that child abuse victims are in a state of pikuach nefesh. Therefore, it’s clearly a halachik question, and each individual person should ask their local posek if they should wait to speak to a Rabbi before going to police. (Some would argue that one should not even wait to ask their local posek before going to the police, and they probably stand correct)
In sum: Agudath has never historically gotten involved in Halachik issues, and they should continue as such, even with the issue of child abuse.
Rabbi Zwiebel, you have severly miscalculated the reaction of your actions. TIme for you to step aside!
And he will use his “heimishe” prosecutors to carry out his wishes. It’s so nice to see we have yarmulke wearing ADA’s assisting in the prosecution of frum defendants.
this is getting messy.. Sounds like a serious clash between U.S. Law and halachah
GrampaJoe – you missed the first round on NBC and unfortunately, the JW picked up on it. Unfortunately, too for the Rabbis who may be in big trouble for not going to the police themselves –
signed: Charlie who inherited Willie Wonka’s Chocolate Factory along with you Grampa Joe.
I once caught a teenager steeling from a store and then stab a witness. Of course I reported him to the police. The same teenager was a participant in brutal gang violence against elderly community members, just weeks later. I got a phone call from his mother who was very angry at me for having reported him. She’s an orthodox Jew, but her desire to cover up the crimes of her son has nothing to do with Judaism, rather all to do with her being his mother.
Yes cover ups do happen in the orthodox community, but the hype about that being the official position of the communal leaders is total distortion.
We have a sacred sefer the “Chafetz Chaim”, which forbids us to believe gossip, and forbids us to harm our fellow Jews by slandering them, yet permits us to report and publicize criminals and their crimes according to halacha.
Slander is also a crime according to US laws, and so the DA cannot forbid a person exposed to gossip from consulting his rabbi to clarify whether he is required or forbidden to report the gossip/allegations he heard. And he can’t forbid rabbis from teaching the prohibitions of slander. The DA is presently positioning himself in reaction to the media hype.
If the rabbis insist on being the ones that the crimes are reported to first, then if there is more crime, and the rabbi does not act, the rabbi should be held responsible.
I was molested for about 4 yrs. By the same man starting when I was 9 yrs old. I have been fighting the trauma to this day (about 30 yrs.). The only way I was able to deal with what happened to me at a young age was by denying it ever happened. Unfortunately that is impossible, and problems of depression and anxiety started surfacing.
Once I got married it was effecting my life too much and I came clean to my wife about my past trauma and admitted that I need help dealing with it, surprisingly she was too calm about it. A few days later she shared with me that she was molested as well at the age of 8!
What can I say….!? how did we let this problem get so HUGE!!
Someone in the comments asked if anyone has a proposal of how to deal with this. I might have an idea, tell me what you think.
The biggest hurdle in getting this resolved is that victims are effected so greatly that they have a very hard time talking about what has happened to them. I myself could not talk about what happened to me until 30 years after the fact.
The kid that was molested last week won’t have it in them to confront this trauma under normal circumstances until 20-30 yrs from now. And if the parents find out about it, most likely they will not report because of shiduchem stigma and protecting the family name etc.
But there must be hundreds of people like me, where we are settled, have a family, don’t have to worry about shiduchim etc.
We are the prime candidates of exposing this shmutz.
The problem is with the statute of limitations that says that these sick perverts can no longer pay for their crimes after a few years. And who wants to go through the whole hurdle of sueing and bringing up all these painful memories all over anyway? I certainly don’t..
My proposal is this.
A simple form that can be filled online:
I was sexually abused by < abuser name> at when I was years old .
Attach 3 pictures.
1) of the molester
2) of the victim at the age of the crime
3) of the victim today. (not everyone will feel comfortable about this, but will achieve greater credibility)
Once a month a printout of this registry will be distributed to all local Shuls.
2 problems,
1) what if someone wants to make a false report? (Which no normal person would do since they are risking their entire reputation by coming out with this)
2) can the victim then be sued by the molester for defamation? (Probably not a problem, because any molester sueing his victim is risking all the gory details of his crime coming out to the public)
I will list the merits of this proposal.
1) the victim can live guilt free knowing he announced to the world that this man is an abuser. (This is definitely the scariest thing for me and my wife, knowing that our abusers are still out there abusing kids)
2) Parents will be able to protect their kids from these people, (and yes these are people you would never suspect, and trust your kids with!)
3) the listing won’t be release until there are at least 100 victims names attached. (Many victims (myself included) do not want to come out with their stories because they feel it will disrupt their life and people will start acting awkwardly to them, however their conscience constantly bothers them for them allowing their abuser/molester to roam free and repeat his offences and they are the only person that knows what this man is all about. They wish they had an easy way out! By only releasing the listing after 100 names have been filled it will be less of a stigma towards them, as well as give them a feeling that we are not going at it alone (if you are a victim you will know this fear))
4) it will deliver such a powerful message to potential molesters. No more getting away with murder! One day your victim will speak up and you will have nowhere to hide. Maybe, just maybe he will refrain from acting on his sick urges.
If you are a Lawyer, a Rabbi or a Psychologist I would very much like to hear the perspective of Halachah, Secular Law and from the doc, if this will be a big enough deterrent for these sickos.
Fellow Victims, we must do something! Not for ourselves but for our children and for Kllal Yisroel. I don’t think there is anyone in the world who will take action on our behalf, we must do it on our own. As you are very well aware of by now, no person truly understands our pain. If they would, we would not be crying in the shadows alone so many years later. We have suffered in silence for far to long!
After the holocaust it also took our grandparents time to talk about their pain. Must we wait 50 years!? Isn’t it time WE said “NEVER AGAIN!”? No child should have to go through what we have had to! Think about all the pain we can avoid from happening to innocent children if we would only gather our strength and expose the shame that has happened to us.
Fellow sufferers, please let me know your opinion.
Is this something you would put your name to?
Do you think it is to drastic?
Not drastic enough?
Do you have a better idea?
Together we can reverse this sickening trend.
“If not us, Whom? If not now, When?”
The Agudah has no business getting involved in such issue. The issue is sexual assault, sexual misconduct and one of the most vile crimes involving children. Judgment should be left to the father and mother of the child. If they wish to consult a rav?? so be it and if they decide to contact public authorities so be it too. It is their child and not the “Agudah’s ” child
i dont get it. If you tell it to the Rabbi and he thinks it didnt happen, the Rabbi might end up in jail. So What is the Heter to report it to the Rabbi and based on that he can end up in jail?
Sorry guys, But every Posek, Dayan or Rabbi I spoke to claimed that it’s against halacha to first go to the secular authorities, court. They cited soo many transgressions. On the other hand, they hands down also stated that if true, it is mandatory to go to the secular authorities! Now, being that it’s a very tricky slope, (lo taamod, etc, (incl, meyaker sheim elohehem), while on the other hand, lo taamod! soo they all confirmed that each individual case has to be looked at individually, if it’s a din rodef or not! Vin commentators are just not qualified to rule on this call! Nor Rabbi Haynes (for all you who quote duna d’malchuta). Sorry but aguda is more interested in halacha and subsequently regarding the well being of the victim, (which is extremely critical when concerning physical harm (every rabbi, dayan or posek I asked, you ask yours)) than all you in the well being of the child. Based on the “they” “us” hype, you show your true colors that you don’t value our torah, therefore, Too bad! Judaism is here to stay, much longer than your hate!
3.1] …are Jewish websites with some historic specialization on the topic of child-molestation; if you are prepared to look into the possibility of trusting your identity with the editors of those sites, those editors might be able to facilitate a forum for pursuing and/or developing your proposal, while maintaining your anonymity until you reach the ‘critical mass’ of 100 victims at which you said you think you would feel able to publicize the details of your identity and the identity of your abuser (pardon the long sentence). I have no connection to those sites or their editors, so I’m in no position to impose upon them any responsibilty; you would have to ask them if and what they would be willing to do to help. You seem to need a focal point at which victims can begin to correspond, with the option of anonymity, but with some assurance that they aren’t corresponding with phonies, or even their own abusers, trolling in an effort to protect themselves.
3.2] Alternatively, or in parallel, you may be able to exploit the organization that Hynes himself has set up. Kol Tzedek may or may not be a farce; they may have an individual who can be approached who would be willing to …
3.2] Alternatively, or in parallel, you may be able to exploit the organization that Hynes himself has set up. Kol Tzedek may or may not be a farce; they may have an individual who can be approached who would be willing to unofficially moderate an unofficial victims forum or working group, outside of Kol Tzedek, to pursue your idea. That organization presumably has records of some kind, even for victim reports beyond the statute of limitations. Victims might feel comfortable trusting such an individual from that organiztion to the limited extent of: verifying that the correspondents on that forum really are victims, and; maintaining an honest count of victims willing to participate in your plan.
This is not Zwiebel’s fault. it is not the fault of the parents, it’s not the fault of the children, and it’s not the fault of the pedophiles.
the blame lies only upon the heads of the Rabbis and Batei Din that allowed this tragedy to continue decades after knowing about it.
The Rabbis have a din of rodfim l’chol davar
Call the Agudah’s washington office and complain about their absurd policy at 202.835.0414. Very few Rabbis are not trained to deal with this issue and do NOT have the power or resources to investigate. Furthermore, a large number of rabbis have been involved in covering up child sexual abuse. Call the police! {then maybe go to your rav for emotional support].
slow down please!!!
I know of a very prominent family that went through hell, after a young man of 22 YO was accused by a 10 YO boy of molestation,
the charges were dropped after it was proven 100% that this was a false accusation ($$$)
Can you imagine had this “molester’s” name been publicized??? he & his family would have been ruined for life !!!
Don’t forget, there are numerous people & organizations, that get funding from the government to help abuse “victims” ,so they have an agenda, the more abuse cases , the more funding….they thrive on those cases….. they are not in on the this for ulterior reasons… they are in for the …..MONEY !!!
I am sickened and embarassed by the Ra-bonnim who feel it necessary to hush up pedophilia cases in the frum community.
Now that the internet is out of the box and there’s no putting it back in, those Rabbonim are now experiencing deep frustration to cover things up, as they have in the past. The internet makes available the type of networking that was heretofore unavailable to publicizing these frum pedophiles.
How can this problem be dealt with effectively? Well,for starters, you need to admit that you have a problem to begin with. Unless & until you admit that you have a problem, you cannot develop any plans of corrective action. Hushing things up will only make things worse, because if the situation isn’t fixed or corrected, it’s not getting any better, is it?
I am amazed and astounded by the chutzpah that Agudas Yisroel has put forward by their pronouncement of one should speak to a Rabbi first before going to the police. We’ve already tried that as a community and you want us to do more of the same? I don’t get it! How is that going to make things any better? And also, what about “dinah d’malchusa dinah” & “Lo ta’amoad al dam raiacha”?
The *ONLY* way to make things better is to follow the example of Nuchem Rosenberg. I imagine that our Holy tanoim, amoroim, rishonim, and achronim had his moral compass.