London – The Federation of Synagogues has removed the kashrut licence from the country’s only kosher pub, The Castle in Golders Green, after it held a function under another rabbinic authority.
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It acted following a Kedassia-catered sheva berachot at the venue last Wednesday.
The Federation’s Dayan Moshe Elzas said: “We gave them the following options — either they could continue with our approved ingredients or move the function to another venue. We can only be responsible for food prepared under our supervision.”
“it held a function under another rabbinic authority”. As always, this is not a question of Kashrut, this is a matter of money. As here in the US, The Vaads will close you down, if you dare use another Hashgacha.. One of the dirtiest businesses , is the Kashrut business.
There is no reason the Kashrus organizations in London can’t get together to stop such things happening. They are not-for-profit and they represent different constituencies, so there should be no reason for any acrimony.
On the other hand, maybe a kosher pub is not such a good idea and we should be happy if it closes down.
Time to cut out the middle man (Mashgiach). Mashgichim only get a small percentage of the actual charge of the function. Mashgichim are treated like the horror stories coming from the cleaning agancies. If a collecter could get away with a community approved letter, stating he/she is legit. Why not have mashgichim
I don’t understand… was it because they used another rabbinic authority for a function or was it because they used things that were not on the “approved ingredients” list.
If it’s the latter I understand completely because they have the right to say if you use X, Y or Z in your food we’re not certifying you but you can use someone else.
If it’s the former then I would have to agree with the first 2 commenters here and say that is quite sad that Kashrus orgs that one would expect to function in an honest, ethical and just manner are removing certifications for financial/political reasons.
To use the mitzvah of kashrus in that way is highly inappropriate (and sadly, way too common).
No kashrut organization wants to CERTIFY AS KOSHER any food it did not personally supervise unless it in substantial agreement to the standards and operation of another kashrut organization. Even then, good kashrut organizations will ask to personally inspect establishments under the other vaad. For example, Rabbi Gedaliah Anemer, zt’l, of the Rabbinical Council of Greater Washington, and other rabbis of that organization, were known to make personal visits to slaughter houses under the O-U and others to verify that standards are maintained and to provide feedback about problems its mashgichim had seen in the DC area. This practice should be encouraged and not blamed on politics or money. I have no idea about the differences that the two English kashrut organizations have, but I’m sure your rabbi can make inquiries and the differences will be explained.
The pub is part of the english culture. while we shouldn’t be immitating the English there are plenty of kosher establishments that serve alcohol. I’d be more concerned about things like drinking and driving or intoxication beyond normal.
As a London resident who is involved in Kashrus, and who knows too much about the dirt and unethical behaviour of Kashrus agencies in Europe and USA, I can tell you that Dayan Elzas is one of the few, very few, principled Rabbonim in the Kashrus arena. Most of Kashrus Halochos are discussed in Yoreh Deyah , and we all claim to be Mavinim and Mumchim, but what happened to Choishen Mishpot? Forgotten and completely disregarded.
It is a big problem when it comes to enforcing or trying to enforce a certain Kashrus standard, only to find out that the certified establishment, factory etc, moved on to another agency eager to take them on as a costumer, where they don’t give “too much trouble”. It has become impossible to give a proper Hechsher on almost anything, as as soon as you try, they find another Hechsher willing to take on the contract. Few, very few, buyers of food products, caterers, producers, care about Kashrus enough to allow you (the certifier/supervisor) to do your job properly.
I could understand if it was a temporary low level hashgacha but we are discussing Kedassia!
I once had an airline sandwich which was kedassia. I found the meat was shmeared with a yellow creamy substance so I threw it out, thinking it was butter. I looked into it and found out;
1, KEDASSIA IS VERY TRUSTED
2, The Brits, nebech, put mayo on meat sandwich, nebach
Of course its money. Federation licensies use all Kedassia products. It’s Kedassia who don’t allow their’s.
No ksshrus certificate should be granted to any kosher establishment that ferments ta’aruvois and pritzois on its premises
VOS EPPESS A PUB! What next kosher food at movies and broadway shows??
No kashrus certificate should be granted to any kosher establishment that ferments ta’aruvois and pritzois on its premises
VOS EPPESS A PUB! What next, kosher food at movies and broadway shows??
#21 makes no sense. First of all many frum people trust the Federation.
Secondly if an establishment is under one hechsher of course you don’t make a function there under another hechsher unless there is an agreement! I don’t blame the Federation’s frustration.
By the way you should look into the hechsherim you eat more carefully.
Both the Federation and London Beth Din are excellent hechsherim for catering and fully-supervised products. I work in kashrus and have dealt with all agencies and kedassiah is certainly not better in all areas
To further clarify. The federation kitchen was not used in this case and was locked, with the key being in the possession of the federation shomer. The keddusia caterer brought in seperate plates and cuttlery.