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Brooklyn, NY - Drug Addicts Arrested For Robbing Atara Shul Items

Published on: July 7, 2012 10:18 PM
By: VIN News/ NY Post
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Brooklyn, NY - Two sticky-fingered brothers posing as “good Jewish boys’’ were busted for allegedly robbing three Brooklyn synagogues of sacred articles that were passed down from generations, law enforcement sources said yesterday.

Solomon Grun, 19, and his brother, Samuel, 23, allegedly grabbed prayer shawls and ataras from the Flatbush synagogues during the spree from June 27 to July 1, the sources said, adding that they were either caught on video or spied by stunned members of the congregations.

They also stole silver items, including two menorahs worth more than $1,000, from their mom, cops said.

According to a press release by the Flatbush Shomrim, these 2 brothers are heavy drug addicts, the teens have been using the profits earned from the stolen ataras to support their drug addictions.

Chaim Deutsche Founder of the Flatbush Shomrim said, He urges District Attorney Charles Hynes to mandate these two drug addicts to an intensive in-patient drug program. Most of the crimes that plague our community are committed by such addicts. Drug enforcement units throughout our city must double or triple to get the drug dealers off the streets and prevent our teenagers from starting early. Drug programs and Probation for mandated drug rehab must be enforced and followed up and violators’ punishment must be severe.” Chaim Deutsch continued by thanking the local detectives, members of the Flatbush Shomrim Patrol and community askanim for their cooperation and the endless hours invested to end the crime pattern.


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1

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:21 PM cynic Says:

The article is vague as to whether these two (alleged) thieves were, in fact, Jewish, and whether they were members, or at least frequent visitors, to the shuls in question.
(Jews as drug addicts? Nahhhhhhhh)

2

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:29 PM Aron1 Says:

Reply to #1  
cynic Says:

The article is vague as to whether these two (alleged) thieves were, in fact, Jewish, and whether they were members, or at least frequent visitors, to the shuls in question.
(Jews as drug addicts? Nahhhhhhhh)

"Vague if they're Jewish"? Are you serious? Solomon & Samuel GRUN? Stole two menorahs from their mother? Definitely Scientologists!

3

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
cynic Says:

The article is vague as to whether these two (alleged) thieves were, in fact, Jewish, and whether they were members, or at least frequent visitors, to the shuls in question.
(Jews as drug addicts? Nahhhhhhhh)

How many gentile brothers living in Brooklyn are named Solomon and Samuel and also have Jewish last name, and went to shul? Dozens, right?

4

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
cynic Says:

The article is vague as to whether these two (alleged) thieves were, in fact, Jewish, and whether they were members, or at least frequent visitors, to the shuls in question.
(Jews as drug addicts? Nahhhhhhhh)

Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension.

5

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:37 PM Revolving Door Justice Says:

What a joke, one of the brothers was arrested May 25, 2012 for theft!

6

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
cynic Says:

The article is vague as to whether these two (alleged) thieves were, in fact, Jewish, and whether they were members, or at least frequent visitors, to the shuls in question.
(Jews as drug addicts? Nahhhhhhhh)

Vague? Hardly. Apparently you missed the part where it says they stole 2 silver menorahs from their own mama!

7

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Nebech on the poor parents of these two bad seeds.

8

 Jul 07, 2012 at 10:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Chaim Deutsche has no business telling Hynes what should be done with these two Jewish thieves. Once convicted they should both be thrown in prison, where DOC will wean them away from drugs.

9

 Jul 07, 2012 at 11:25 PM Loberstein Says:

The frum community needs leadership that doesn't pretend that these problems don't exist. There are drug addicts in every group, Chassidic, Sephardic, Modern and some are children of great rabbis. There has to be a willingness to admit that it exists . Because of shiduchim issues and general fear of disgrace, many parents prefer to look the other way and let their children eventually die of an overdose.It happens lal the time but you would never know it because the curtain is so solid to keep anyone from finding out the real reason for deaths from drugs.

10

 Jul 07, 2012 at 11:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
cynic Says:

The article is vague as to whether these two (alleged) thieves were, in fact, Jewish, and whether they were members, or at least frequent visitors, to the shuls in question.
(Jews as drug addicts? Nahhhhhhhh)

“The article is vague as to whether these two (alleged) thieves were, in fact, Jewish"

According to Shomrim, these bochurim were actually Italians from Jersey City who dressed in Yeshivish lvush except for the bright red Borsalinos which apprently is what gave them away.

11

 Jul 07, 2012 at 11:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Most important.
Who were the pawn shops who knowingly bought the stolen goods from these 2 thieves?
Arrest them and you close down the major players

12

 Jul 08, 2012 at 12:19 AM villyamsburger Says:

Shame on VIN for posting this article and shame on shomrim of Flatbush of being proud of such tragic situations.

Shomrim is not here to protect us from our own. Shomrim was started by R' moshe Hoffman A"H from williamsburg to keep goyish theives out of our homes. When our community suffers with our own problems we don't need shomrim. Is Shomrim gonna help the IRS soon if I don't pay taxes on time?! Is Shomrim gonna enforce building codes? Are they gonna enforce parking rules? What has happened to the "US" and to the "WE" the jewish people.
Shomrim you are going too far. We don't need you to tell charles Hynes what to do and how to prosecute us.
Chaim Deutsch I wanna wish you only nachas from ur generations to come and may you never experience such sadness. Please keep up your great work but stay away where you don't belong.
A Git Voch

13

 Jul 08, 2012 at 12:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Nebach

14

 Jul 08, 2012 at 12:40 AM esther Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

Nebech on the poor parents of these two bad seeds.

i don't if bad seed is an acurate description but when i read this story my first thought was of the terrible pain the parents must be dealing with.

15

 Jul 08, 2012 at 02:03 AM Unasked_Question Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

Chaim Deutsche has no business telling Hynes what should be done with these two Jewish thieves. Once convicted they should both be thrown in prison, where DOC will wean them away from drugs.

Would you share with us please where you learned that the prison helps people with drug addictions ?

16

 Jul 08, 2012 at 02:05 AM Avreich1 Says:

Reply to #12  
villyamsburger Says:

Shame on VIN for posting this article and shame on shomrim of Flatbush of being proud of such tragic situations.

Shomrim is not here to protect us from our own. Shomrim was started by R' moshe Hoffman A"H from williamsburg to keep goyish theives out of our homes. When our community suffers with our own problems we don't need shomrim. Is Shomrim gonna help the IRS soon if I don't pay taxes on time?! Is Shomrim gonna enforce building codes? Are they gonna enforce parking rules? What has happened to the "US" and to the "WE" the jewish people.
Shomrim you are going too far. We don't need you to tell charles Hynes what to do and how to prosecute us.
Chaim Deutsch I wanna wish you only nachas from ur generations to come and may you never experience such sadness. Please keep up your great work but stay away where you don't belong.
A Git Voch

"Shomrim is not here to protect us from our own"

?אם אין אני לי מי לי

17

 Jul 08, 2012 at 02:35 AM Yonason_Herschlag Says:

Reply to #12  
villyamsburger Says:

Shame on VIN for posting this article and shame on shomrim of Flatbush of being proud of such tragic situations.

Shomrim is not here to protect us from our own. Shomrim was started by R' moshe Hoffman A"H from williamsburg to keep goyish theives out of our homes. When our community suffers with our own problems we don't need shomrim. Is Shomrim gonna help the IRS soon if I don't pay taxes on time?! Is Shomrim gonna enforce building codes? Are they gonna enforce parking rules? What has happened to the "US" and to the "WE" the jewish people.
Shomrim you are going too far. We don't need you to tell charles Hynes what to do and how to prosecute us.
Chaim Deutsch I wanna wish you only nachas from ur generations to come and may you never experience such sadness. Please keep up your great work but stay away where you don't belong.
A Git Voch

You are mistaken. The din of moser applies to making monetary claims against a fellow Jew in a goyisha court, but does not apply to reporting Jews who damage Jewish property when the goal is not to get money out of them, but rather to protect the community from them continuing on their path.

18

 Jul 08, 2012 at 07:27 AM Chamor HaDor Says:

#12: A shaila was asked and it is NOT mesira!!!

I was one of their victims and had a sentimental Atara which is irreplaceable. I was violated! Immagine how I felt when I walked into shul Shabbos morning to find my talis beitel empty! My fellow mispallelim told me I was white.

Then another walked in and then one more. There stood 3 of us with empty talis bags. Shock, dismay and utter disbelief barely sum it up.

These are carrer criminals who've been at it for years. When one stoop so low as to steal from their own mother, something's just not right.

"Haba lehorgecha, hashkem legorgo". We have no way of knowing what a drugged crazed individual is capable of doing should they encounter a surprise visitor in one of the shuls. They don't process while under the influence. Sadly, they have a habit to feed and wouldn't think twice about hurting someone.

Prison, besides being punitive, includes mandatory rehab. When they get out, they will hopefully be clean and will also have learned a powerful lesson.

While I feel for the family, I also feel for them and pray that after time served, they will start their lives over and become respectable people.

May H' guide them.

19

 Jul 08, 2012 at 07:58 AM HaNavon Says:

Publishing the names is probably not muttar at all.
They can always go through rehab and do tshuvah

20

 Jul 08, 2012 at 08:27 AM rationalman Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

Most important.
Who were the pawn shops who knowingly bought the stolen goods from these 2 thieves?
Arrest them and you close down the major players

your post was the only lucid comment made. That is the root problem. the DA should go after the pawn with a vengeance - so much so that I would rather see the pawn in jail than the thief. The pawn is supposed to keep logs - if they are not maintained it is illegal - although the penalty is not severe enough ....however i would settle for a pawn shop owner to go to rikers for 3 months. he will never do it agin

21

 Jul 08, 2012 at 09:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

Chaim Deutsche has no business telling Hynes what should be done with these two Jewish thieves. Once convicted they should both be thrown in prison, where DOC will wean them away from drugs.

Actually, Chaim Deutsch is one of the level headed askanim who speaks to the secular authorities with more saichel than most. He is not looking to "get them off". He favors prosecution, and rightfully so. However, he also has the brains to realize that those drug addicts that are treated only by the prison system do not get weaned off drugs. They often continue using while incarcerated. And they eventually get released and return directly to their world of drugs. Prison does not rehabilitate anyone from anything - and that is widely known fact. Even the courts prefer to mandate treatment for drug addiction if that is at the core of the crime. It provides reasonable chance that the addict will stop the cycle of drugs, and even get his life in order to become a productive citizen. Walk into any AA or NA meeting, and meet these recovering people. I feel bad for the suffering they endured, but I marvel at the peace of mind they now have.

22

 Jul 08, 2012 at 09:56 AM Avreich1 Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Actually, Chaim Deutsch is one of the level headed askanim who speaks to the secular authorities with more saichel than most. He is not looking to "get them off". He favors prosecution, and rightfully so. However, he also has the brains to realize that those drug addicts that are treated only by the prison system do not get weaned off drugs. They often continue using while incarcerated. And they eventually get released and return directly to their world of drugs. Prison does not rehabilitate anyone from anything - and that is widely known fact. Even the courts prefer to mandate treatment for drug addiction if that is at the core of the crime. It provides reasonable chance that the addict will stop the cycle of drugs, and even get his life in order to become a productive citizen. Walk into any AA or NA meeting, and meet these recovering people. I feel bad for the suffering they endured, but I marvel at the peace of mind they now have.

"that is widely known fact."

Once again, if a contributor is going to assert that something is "a fact" can he/she please produce the source of that "fact"?

Just blithely declaring declaring something to be factual without proof is exactly parallel to saying that a piece of meat is kosher without producing a teudat hechsher to back that up.

23

 Jul 08, 2012 at 10:27 AM EG613 Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

Chaim Deutsche has no business telling Hynes what should be done with these two Jewish thieves. Once convicted they should both be thrown in prison, where DOC will wean them away from drugs.

Drugs are A problem. Incarceration is not the answer.

24

 Jul 08, 2012 at 11:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Avreich1 Says:

"that is widely known fact."

Once again, if a contributor is going to assert that something is "a fact" can he/she please produce the source of that "fact"?

Just blithely declaring declaring something to be factual without proof is exactly parallel to saying that a piece of meat is kosher without producing a teudat hechsher to back that up.

Aside from scientific research, which I direct you to search via Google scholar, it is worth a few words to explain. There are three reasons cited for incartcerating criminals.

1. Punishment. Someone who commits a crime against the state and its citizens should be subjected to negative consequences. One option is prison. It is believed that this is a successful deterrent. There is no research to support this. Most criminals engage in their business with the belief they won't get caught, so the deterrent is useless.

2. Rehabilitation. The prison environment, at least on paper, is expected to "make a mentsch" out of someone. There is ample research on this, and there are no findings that support the notion. There are other dynamics that rule the prison environment. Yes, there may be access to therapists and doctors, but experience and scientific study do not find the use of jails as curative in any way.

3. Protection for society. Incarcerating the criminal prevents him/her from repeating the actions of crime and victimizing others. This is usually true, and has so far been the only justification for using prisons and jails. Ask anyone in mental health or lawyers.

25

 Jul 08, 2012 at 12:01 PM mythoughts Says:

Reply to #23  
EG613 Says:

Drugs are A problem. Incarceration is not the answer.

Drug addicts need to hit bottom before they can recover and unfortunately that usually includes a stint in prison.

26

 Jul 08, 2012 at 01:33 PM CSisNOTsoCOMMON Says:

Reply to #12  
villyamsburger Says:

Shame on VIN for posting this article and shame on shomrim of Flatbush of being proud of such tragic situations.

Shomrim is not here to protect us from our own. Shomrim was started by R' moshe Hoffman A"H from williamsburg to keep goyish theives out of our homes. When our community suffers with our own problems we don't need shomrim. Is Shomrim gonna help the IRS soon if I don't pay taxes on time?! Is Shomrim gonna enforce building codes? Are they gonna enforce parking rules? What has happened to the "US" and to the "WE" the jewish people.
Shomrim you are going too far. We don't need you to tell charles Hynes what to do and how to prosecute us.
Chaim Deutsch I wanna wish you only nachas from ur generations to come and may you never experience such sadness. Please keep up your great work but stay away where you don't belong.
A Git Voch

FACT: The drug abuse is our frum communities is far worse than most of us know about. I personally know 8 people who became crime victims and had their talaisim stolen for the silver in the past 2 weeks. My Zaidy, who is a holocaust survivor, can't sleep because of what these 2 "frum" boys did. It reminds him of what the Nazi SS did to us just years ago. Just years ago, the "police" in other parts of the world where frum yidden lived did not arrest criminals like these, they were the criminals. We owe so much to those in our community who help protect us from criminal acts of theft and anti-semetism. We should thank Chaim Deutsch and the members of the Flatbush Shomrim for helping keep our communities safe and for helping to put these criminals in the criminal justce system while calling upon the authorities to mandate rehab as oppose to harsh jail sentences, because the goal is to make these boys become better with tshuva and education. The drug units must increase enforcement as well as education before this serious problem becomes even worse for our future generatinos. Remember, the reason these boys were stealing the talaisim from shuls was to buy DRUGS!!!

28

 Jul 08, 2012 at 06:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Drug abuse is a serious problem in the frum community, and B"H it is now recognized, no longer denied, by most leaders in all factions of the frum world. The drawback to this achieved awareness is the access to treatment. There are several angles to this.

1. There are nearly no facilities to offer treatment that are kosher and offer environments suitable to someone who wishes to comply with Torah and mitzvos during treatment. The few we have are not located near frum communities.

2. Treatment is costly. Insurance no longer pays much. Personal funding has often been depleted before the addict is ready for help.

3. Stigma.

4. There are several levels of intensity of treatment, including inpatient/residential, intensive outpatient, and outpatient (less intensive). You cannot overtreat an addict, but most seek lesser levels, with risks of failure.

5. Court mandates are useful, but do not guarantee successful recovery.

It's great to get someone to treatment, but not all succeed the first time through. Once someone enters recovery for real, life becomes fulfilling, spiritual, and enjoyable. There are many winners.

29

 Jul 08, 2012 at 08:00 PM tired Says:

Reply to #18  
Chamor HaDor Says:

#12: A shaila was asked and it is NOT mesira!!!

I was one of their victims and had a sentimental Atara which is irreplaceable. I was violated! Immagine how I felt when I walked into shul Shabbos morning to find my talis beitel empty! My fellow mispallelim told me I was white.

Then another walked in and then one more. There stood 3 of us with empty talis bags. Shock, dismay and utter disbelief barely sum it up.

These are carrer criminals who've been at it for years. When one stoop so low as to steal from their own mother, something's just not right.

"Haba lehorgecha, hashkem legorgo". We have no way of knowing what a drugged crazed individual is capable of doing should they encounter a surprise visitor in one of the shuls. They don't process while under the influence. Sadly, they have a habit to feed and wouldn't think twice about hurting someone.

Prison, besides being punitive, includes mandatory rehab. When they get out, they will hopefully be clean and will also have learned a powerful lesson.

While I feel for the family, I also feel for them and pray that after time served, they will start their lives over and become respectable people.

May H' guide them.

i would agree with every thing you said if you would have started your speech by mandatory rehab every thing else in there is selfish fake and a lie, it is mesira because you don't know what will be done with them so save the shaila bs it is just to make us think that you really asked a shaila you did not ask ,you believe only in your self it came to your pocket so u lost it .let me ask you if one of your sons friends from Lakewood had a little drink by his rosh yeshivas wedding son he was just trying to make chosen happy and then got in to a car and drove in to your building with no insurance what would you say let me ask a shaila because drinking is terrible or you would say oy v eh nebech such a good bucher let me take him for my son in law he doesn't need help he is just an alcoholic, My friend wake up we got an addiction problem in our community that's YOURS TOO wake up and smell the alcohol and drugs it smells bad and very sad, or go back under your cover an ask a shaila

30

 Jul 08, 2012 at 08:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
tired Says:

i would agree with every thing you said if you would have started your speech by mandatory rehab every thing else in there is selfish fake and a lie, it is mesira because you don't know what will be done with them so save the shaila bs it is just to make us think that you really asked a shaila you did not ask ,you believe only in your self it came to your pocket so u lost it .let me ask you if one of your sons friends from Lakewood had a little drink by his rosh yeshivas wedding son he was just trying to make chosen happy and then got in to a car and drove in to your building with no insurance what would you say let me ask a shaila because drinking is terrible or you would say oy v eh nebech such a good bucher let me take him for my son in law he doesn't need help he is just an alcoholic, My friend wake up we got an addiction problem in our community that's YOURS TOO wake up and smell the alcohol and drugs it smells bad and very sad, or go back under your cover an ask a shaila

I sympathize with your distaste. When I am approached by people with various questions about reportting anything to authorities, I always guide them to ask a shailoh first, but not because I fear it might be mesirah. Usually, I am convinced it is muttar, and requires no "heter". But to survive in our community that truly misunderstands the parameters of mesirah, one should be armed with the written heter. Otherwise, the chatter about mesirah, even if there is no relevant issur in that case, are extremely damaging to all. One can easily find himself excommunicated, with children thrown out of mosdos, no shidduchim ready to consider his children, etc. So even when it is perfectly clear that one should go to police and the courts, it is self-protective to get a Rav to give the "heter".

31

 Jul 09, 2012 at 08:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

Nebech on the poor parents of these two bad seeds.

Don't speak about something you have no knowledge of. I am more sorry for these boys who were born into this exteremely dysfunctional situation. Had these boys grown up in a stable, loving, healthy home perhaps they might not have turned out this way. They are in no way bad seeds. They are sad misguided souls who grew up without the healthy childhood they obviously needed.

32

 Jul 09, 2012 at 03:06 PM tired Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

I sympathize with your distaste. When I am approached by people with various questions about reportting anything to authorities, I always guide them to ask a shailoh first, but not because I fear it might be mesirah. Usually, I am convinced it is muttar, and requires no "heter". But to survive in our community that truly misunderstands the parameters of mesirah, one should be armed with the written heter. Otherwise, the chatter about mesirah, even if there is no relevant issur in that case, are extremely damaging to all. One can easily find himself excommunicated, with children thrown out of mosdos, no shidduchim ready to consider his children, etc. So even when it is perfectly clear that one should go to police and the courts, it is self-protective to get a Rav to give the "heter".

THANKS

33

 Jul 09, 2012 at 07:09 PM David Says:

I personally know both these boys and all I can say is pray for there souls it is a Jews duty to pray for our brothers!do they deserve to be punished?i will leave that up to the courts.they are good kids who got addicted to crack and heroin when you are looking for your next fix you will even steal from your own mother that's the harsh facts of this disease! I pray for them

34

 Jul 10, 2012 at 09:30 AM funky Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

Don't speak about something you have no knowledge of. I am more sorry for these boys who were born into this exteremely dysfunctional situation. Had these boys grown up in a stable, loving, healthy home perhaps they might not have turned out this way. They are in no way bad seeds. They are sad misguided souls who grew up without the healthy childhood they obviously needed.

who are u to say that bull i know these kids verry well the grew up in a loving home where the parents tried to do everything they can to help them but the choice of drugs took over so please if u dont know where they come from an who they realy r dont judge thank you !!

35

 Jul 11, 2012 at 02:16 PM anonomys Says:

im a teenager myself and ive went through years of drug abuse. ive seen all my friends go through the same thing and at 17 years old ive buried more friends then both of my parents. for years ive tried going to rehab, therapists,relapse prevention, and going to jail did nothing for me. what i relized is that willpower is not the answer to this malady. this is a spiritual malady that needs a spiritual solution which ive gotten through the twelve steps. the twelve steps is basically a teshuva process were i had to change my entire self-being. you see for an addict like myself I was the problem and drugs was the symtom as long as an addict does nothing to change himself hes bound to relapse. this is what the community has to realize because everybodys trying to offer solutions without even knowing what this problem is. once people start treating this proplem with the spiritual solution then this problem will go away g-d willing.

36

 Jul 11, 2012 at 06:57 PM abbadov Says:

btw there is an affordable jewish rehab in north miami that takes you through the 12 steps with a torah hashkafa and its called torah and the twelve steps. its kosher with frum therapist whos a rabbi and there is a frum psychiatrist and its a fourth the price of most rehabs. Look it up on internet as it saved my sons life. just having a chaplain who invites people for shabbos isnt really a jewish program. this one in miami is truly jewish at the neshama recovery level and the rabbi worked with addicts for 30 years.

37

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