Beit Shemesh - Three Women Fighting For A More Equal Society |
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File photo of a demonstration protesting the growing demand by radical religious elements to exclude women from public life in Israel. Photo by Kobi Gideon / Flash90.Beit Shemesh - Almost eight months after the issue of Hadarat Nashim (exclusion of women) exploded in the media when eight-year-old Naama Margolis was harassed by haredi extremists outside the Orot Girls’ School in Beit Shemesh, three concerned women, including Naama’s mother, are still fighting for a more equal society in their city.
Hadassa Margolis, Alisa Colman, and Nili Philipp, modern-Orthodox women who call Beit Shemesh their home, only want to the ability to move about their city freely without worrying about being harassed because of what they wear.
In an effort to raise public awareness, the women organized a tour of the city to highlight areas where they still feel at risk, in conjunction with the Israel Movement for Reform and Progressive Judaism.
The women’s tour went through ultra-Orthodox neighborhoods surrounding their own and described limitations on their movement within the city. Streets have big signs demanding that women avoid dwelling on one side of the street, in front of synagogues, and that they wear modest clothing, which includes long sleeves and skirts, and no tight or revealing clothing.
Content is provided courtesy of the Jerusalem Post
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Read Comments (44) — Post Yours »
1
Aug 10, 2012 at 11:56 AM Yipyap Says:Report as Inappropriate
Why are they starting up? making a chilul
2
Aug 10, 2012 at 12:03 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Show me who you walk with and I will know who your are. This woman is a born trouble-maker; and proof is she has joined the reform movement to help her. I would definitely not eat from her cooking; even with a masgiach
3
Aug 10, 2012 at 12:12 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Chilul? Please....maybe we need a completely new approach. Let the men be locked up during the day or maybe all the time so they shouldn't see the women. The women can be free without worry of harassment. If the problem is that men are seeing women and feel the women are not modest, the men can hide in underground caves so they shouldn't see them. Problem solved.
4
Aug 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM ProminantLawyer Says:Report as Inappropriate
I dont suggest such action especially on EL AL flights where the men take their seats. I wonder if such zoog daisah happens in first class.
5
Aug 10, 2012 at 12:15 PM Avi Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Why are they starting up? making a chilul ”
Charedim are wrong. Just like the Neviim warned Klal Yisroel even though they were harassed and threatened, so too these women are getting their message out.
6
Aug 10, 2012 at 12:49 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Together with the reform? at least we see the true faces.
7
Aug 10, 2012 at 01:03 PM {Ploni Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Why are they starting up? making a chilul ”
I disagree with you, Yipyap.
Like it or not, Israel is not (yet) a misogynistic theocracy like Iran or Saudi Arabia. Not all Israeli women are content to sit in the background, docilely doing exactly as their husbands want or wish.
If that is what you aspire to, Yipyap, then we must agree to disagree.
8
Aug 10, 2012 at 01:06 PM ShmuelG Says:Report as Inappropriate
Surprise! The feminist chalerias who pretend to be orthodox (or modern allegedly orthodox, to be accurate) are acting, I quote, "in conjunction with the Israel Movement for Reform and Progressive Judaism."
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Gut Shabbos.
9
Aug 10, 2012 at 01:10 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
The so-called "Haredim" must understand that they are living in Galus under the zionist regime. Medinat Israel is not Jeffersonian America where we have true freedom of religion and can have beautiful true Jewish communities like Kiryas Joel and New Square, where we can have separate sides of the street and side of busses for men and women, etc. if they don't like it in socialist Israel they should come to America where we have true religious freedom
10
Aug 10, 2012 at 01:19 PM maxedout Says:Report as Inappropriate
oh no, here we go again. yipyap has spoken. lets all wait for alterg now to shower us with his brilliance.
11
Aug 10, 2012 at 01:33 PM Shragi Getzel Says:Report as Inappropriate
Who's making a chillul hashem?
12
Aug 10, 2012 at 02:00 PM Shtarker Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Why are they starting up? making a chilul ”
Those women are not "starting up". It was a group of fanatics who were "starting up"...the fanatics are the ones making a chilul hashem.
13
Aug 10, 2012 at 02:31 PM Love Davka Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Why are they starting up? making a chilul ”
They didn't start up or make a chilul Hashem. The kanna'im did.
14
Aug 10, 2012 at 02:45 PM ALTERG Says:Report as Inappropriate
What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something
15
Aug 10, 2012 at 02:51 PM rationalman Says:Report as Inappropriate
yipyap....you must be joking...for months ...people that profess to be frum go k'neged das torah yelling at these women publicly creating a great chilul hashem and you remain quiet......now the women want to raise awareness of the hamon am - that people should ostrisize these people and you say they are the creators of this chilul hashem....I really think you are part of the problem....or perhaps you are ignorant.....
16
Aug 10, 2012 at 02:58 PM maxedout Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something ”
Vayiftach Hashem es pi ha'ason. I knew we could depend on you alter.
17
Aug 10, 2012 at 03:30 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something ”
Because she is not charedi makes her not Jewish??? She probaby supports the state more than the chareidim who only know how to complain and then take all the benefits.
18
Aug 10, 2012 at 04:00 PM Babishka Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Surprise! The feminist chalerias who pretend to be orthodox (or modern allegedly orthodox, to be accurate) are acting, I quote, "in conjunction with the Israel Movement for Reform and Progressive Judaism."
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Gut Shabbos. ”
If so-called "frumme" did not harrass and abuse these women they wouldn't go OTD.
19
Aug 10, 2012 at 04:43 PM Kim Li Says:Report as Inappropriate
The great Rav Shamshon Rephael Hirsch called his hashkafah תורה עם דרך ×רץ (Torah with derech eretz).
The Kanna'im of Bet Shemesh have invented a new hashkafah. I suggest that we call it תורה בלי דרך ×רץ (Torah *without* derech eretz).
20
Aug 10, 2012 at 04:53 PM Anglophile Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ yipyap....you must be joking...for months ...people that profess to be frum go k'neged das torah yelling at these women publicly creating a great chilul hashem and you remain quiet......now the women want to raise awareness of the hamon am - that people should ostrisize these people and you say they are the creators of this chilul hashem....I really think you are part of the problem....or perhaps you are ignorant..... ”
rationalman, your point was so good that I would like to present it without the errors in English (I hope that you will not be offended).
Here is the edited version:
Yipyap, you must be joking! For months, people that professed to be frum went k'neged da'as torah by yelling at these women and publicly creating a great chilul Hashem. Yet, you remained quiet. Now the women want to raise the awareness of the hamon am, encouraging them to ostracize the extremists, but you say that the *women* created the chilul Hashem! I really think you are part of the problem, or perhaps you are ignorant.
21
Aug 10, 2012 at 05:09 PM shredready Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Why are they starting up? making a chilul ”
you have it wrong it is the herdiem who are making a massive chillul hashem( the ones screaming)
22
Aug 10, 2012 at 05:56 PM Yossel Says:Report as Inappropriate
Haredi men have no business standing in front of an RZ girls' yeshiva , spitting on the kinderlach and calling them shiksas. It's that outrageous sinas chinam that causes this kind of response.
23
Aug 10, 2012 at 06:15 PM {Ploni Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something ”
Please, alterg, do us all a favor: at least try to engage your brain before you put even a single pinkie on your keyboard.
24
Aug 10, 2012 at 06:17 PM ALTERZEE Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something ”
If you had paid attention even for a single minute during that hour when they taught geography at your yeshiva you would already know that women in India are extraordinarily tznuos.
But you didn't, so you don't.
25
Aug 10, 2012 at 06:20 PM Al El Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I dont suggest such action especially on EL AL flights where the men take their seats. I wonder if such zoog daisah happens in first class. ”
As you probably don't have two red cents to rub together, ProminantLawyer, you will never know what goes on in El Al first class.
Dream on.
26
Aug 10, 2012 at 06:32 PM esther Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The so-called "Haredim" must understand that they are living in Galus under the zionist regime. Medinat Israel is not Jeffersonian America where we have true freedom of religion and can have beautiful true Jewish communities like Kiryas Joel and New Square, where we can have separate sides of the street and side of busses for men and women, etc. if they don't like it in socialist Israel they should come to America where we have true religious freedom ”
was theer ever such a thing as separate sides of the streets in in the shtetle? of course not!
27
Aug 10, 2012 at 06:34 PM esther Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Those women are not "starting up". It was a group of fanatics who were "starting up"...the fanatics are the ones making a chilul hashem. ”
but if they really are doing these tours in conjunction with reform that's terrible and really goes their credibility as frum women.
28
Aug 10, 2012 at 06:51 PM DavidCohen Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something ”
It is really hard to take opinions seriously when they are presented as though they had been written by a 5 year old who is just starting to learn how to communicate in written English.
29
Aug 10, 2012 at 07:30 PM A Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something ”
Your powers of observation are outstanding as usual: the long hair is not hair, it is a sheitel. I can't tell if she's dying to go half-naked (like you presume she wants), can't tell a thing about how tznius she is or isn't since she's entirely blocked by the woman in front of her.
Any more ridiculous conclusions you've come to that you want to share?
30
Aug 11, 2012 at 02:43 PM HappyOlah Says:Report as Inappropriate
If these women are aligning themselves with reform then it is because we frum people failed them. Where was Agudah? Why didn't frum organizations speak out in defense of the young girls and against the spitters? Why aren't frum leaders publicly criticizing the signs that compel women to cross to the other street?
31
Aug 11, 2012 at 09:34 PM rivka Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What? this lady on the pic with long hair is jewish? She looks more then a goyta then a yid, if she don't like the jewish torha laws let her move to india & she can do & wear half naket & nobody will tell her something ”
I am in the middle of reading the new biography of the much beloved Rebbitzen Batsheva Kanievsky Z"L. It states that only twice in her lifetime did she ever get angry and scold someone. Once was when a guest in her home was mimicing and making fun of a girl who stuttered,and the second was when she was outside her home in Bnai Brak speaking to a group of secular girls who were not dressed tzniusly and a Charedi man started to yell at one of the girls , telling her to go back to Tel Aviv where she belongs. The Rebbitzen yelled at this man for embarassing the girl and said he is no longer welcome to her home. We can all learn from this remarkable woman how to treat our fellow human beings, no matter how different they are from us.
32
Aug 12, 2012 at 12:00 AM Shtarker Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ but if they really are doing these tours in conjunction with reform that's terrible and really goes their credibility as frum women. ”
Perhaps you are right. On the other hand, where else will these women find support for their cause? It won't be from among their own.
33
Aug 12, 2012 at 12:16 AM esther Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ If you had paid attention even for a single minute during that hour when they taught geography at your yeshiva you would already know that women in India are extraordinarily tznuos.
But you didn't, so you don't. ”
fyi,the long indian dress and veil you;re thinking of is called asari and exposes the weares mid-drift.
34
Aug 12, 2012 at 12:20 AM Berl Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ They didn't start up or make a chilul Hashem. The kanna'im did. ”
they are all to blame, both sides, The kanaim need to use the COLD mikveh and showers, the women need to know that they should not provoke by going in certain areas dressed preetzusdik and that they should not make partnerships with the devil (deformed reformed)
neither side has respect for others sensitivities. If the Kanoim were so ehrlich they would get their wives to be mekarev these women
35
Aug 12, 2012 at 06:19 AM savtat Says:Report as Inappropriate
You know, I think part of the Beit Shemesh clash was about who got to use the building. The methods used were unspeakable. Everyone knows derech eretz kodma l'Torah. It makes you wonder.
36
Aug 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM rivka Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ they are all to blame, both sides, The kanaim need to use the COLD mikveh and showers, the women need to know that they should not provoke by going in certain areas dressed preetzusdik and that they should not make partnerships with the devil (deformed reformed)
neither side has respect for others sensitivities. If the Kanoim were so ehrlich they would get their wives to be mekarev these women ”
If the women are indeed dressed un-tzniusdik, in a manner that exposes the upper arms, lower neck, legs etc, then they are the ones who should use some sense when they are walking around certain neighborhoods. But if the women do conform to tznius dress codes, though not as extreme as some charedi men would like, then these men should mind their own business.
37
Aug 12, 2012 at 02:44 PM ilovehashem Says:Report as Inappropriate
To all of you who r saying these women r making chilul hashem ..open your eyes and look who is making chilul hashem , it is these sick extremist who apperently with all thier tzidkus r doing the biggest chilul hashem by looking for women to spit at and throw thing on them by disrespecting women , These extremist are a bunch of sick people who apperently look at women as objects and not human biengs and instead of living a true life of torah they are busy looking at whats not modest in thier eyes , they are not supposed to look at women at all , They should go live in a island somewhere with only men and like that they wont have a problem with women.kol hakavod for these women who r standing to what is right ,
38
Aug 12, 2012 at 02:57 PM shalom Says:Report as Inappropriate
To # 36 You are wrong no matter how a women dresses no man has the right to spit at her to shout at her or throw things on her no man has the right to tell a women that she cant walk on any side of a street , If any man apperently some extreme men have a problem with women then they should close themselves in thier home and not look at women they should cover thier eyes when walking down the street .
39
Aug 12, 2012 at 03:57 PM zrat1 Says:Report as Inappropriate
i dont understand how is it ok for a person to go looking for a problem
who cares who started it why and who the evil one is this is a person who is looking to start up with the whole community and not just a few radicals
the is no excuse for what they did/do but dont be the problem and make them right
40
Aug 12, 2012 at 06:25 PM rivka Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ To # 36 You are wrong no matter how a women dresses no man has the right to spit at her to shout at her or throw things on her no man has the right to tell a women that she cant walk on any side of a street , If any man apperently some extreme men have a problem with women then they should close themselves in thier home and not look at women they should cover thier eyes when walking down the street . ”
Either I did not explain my opinion clearly or you misunderstood what I meant. I totally agree with YOU!!!. What I meant to say was that if a woman is walking in Meah Shearim, for example, then it behooves her to dress accordingly or not go there. Just like we would be respectful and sensitive to any different cultural mores when we are visiting them on THEIR turf. However, in a mixed, heterogenous neighborhood then no one has the right to expect others to conform to his/her standards of anything. As far as spitting or rock throwing, that is NEVER condoned, not anywhere. Please refer to my post # 31 about Rebbitzen Batsheva Kanievsky. She is someone to emulate and whose sincere love and kindness to all is something for us all to aspire to.
41
Aug 12, 2012 at 08:01 PM BLONDI Says:Report as Inappropriate
rivka...sadly these men and most people of this generation on not on the level of rebitzen batsheva kanievsky. but we can all try to be a bit more accepting of our brothers and sisters....
42
Aug 17, 2012 at 02:31 AM shalom Says:Report as Inappropriate
# 40 you r right yes it would be healthier to stay away from places like meah shearim if you dont look or dress like neturei karta , But the problem is that these extremist think they can take over any place they settle in and instead of bieng mekarev someone who is not like them they do it in such a negetive way that just makes you hate them. unfortunatly I as an orthodox women dressed tzniusly had a bad expierience in meah sheaarim while waiting for my husband to go out of shul myself and my daughter were spit at called pritzus had stuff thrown on us just beacuse we were standing by our car by meah shearim , i felt like i was in aza and was surounded by jew hating arabs it really was a nes that my husband came ontime and chased these so called extren jews away, before we could get hurt. and I thought they dont look at women apperently they look too much.
43
Aug 17, 2012 at 02:37 AM shosh Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ You know, I think part of the Beit Shemesh clash was about who got to use the building. The methods used were unspeakable. Everyone knows derech eretz kodma l'Torah. It makes you wonder. ”
you r right and unfortunatly those crazy ppl in biet shemesh are just a bunch of bored neturei kartas who have nothing better to do with thier lives but to look at women and spit on anything that is female beacuse they have dirty minds. and r looking to start some action , they dont know what derech eretz kadma la torah means beacuse they dont know what torah means its not part of thier lives.
44
Aug 17, 2012 at 02:47 AM lala Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I am in the middle of reading the new biography of the much beloved Rebbitzen Batsheva Kanievsky Z"L. It states that only twice in her lifetime did she ever get angry and scold someone. Once was when a guest in her home was mimicing and making fun of a girl who stuttered,and the second was when she was outside her home in Bnai Brak speaking to a group of secular girls who were not dressed tzniusly and a Charedi man started to yell at one of the girls , telling her to go back to Tel Aviv where she belongs. The Rebbitzen yelled at this man for embarassing the girl and said he is no longer welcome to her home. We can all learn from this remarkable woman how to treat our fellow human beings, no matter how different they are from us. ”
Thats really beautiful what you wrote about Rebetzin Kanievsky Z"L she was really a special neshama that we can all learn from her on how to love your fellow jew her and her husbands home was open to all kinds of jews and she respected each and every one that stepped into her home no matter if he or she were observent jews or not may her zchus gaurd us all and may we all learn from her great midah.