New York, NY – Agudah Urges NYC Mayor To Work With Jewish Community On New Bris Regulations

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    New York, NY – In an impassioned plea to Mayor Michael Bloomberg, top level officials at the Agudah appealed today to City Hall to reconsider a proposed vote on new regulations that would, for the first time ever, impose governmental regulations in the United States on the practice of metzitza b’peh.

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    The vote by the Board of Health is slated to take place on September 13th, just four days before Rosh Hashana and if the new regulations are passed, would require parents to submit written consent before metzitza b’peh could be performed.

    The letter obtained by VIN News, signed by Rabbi David Zweibel and Rabbi Gedaliah Weinberger, expresses concern that written consent is just the first regulation that could be imposed on the centuries old religious practice, and could potentially be part of a larger move to not only ban metzitzah b’peh outright but also require a mohel to wear surgical gloves, a practice suggested by the recently published “Before the Bris” pamphlet that is being circulated by the Health Department in city hospitals.

    Rabbis Zweibel and Weinberger also stated their concerns regarding the way the issue is being handled by the Health Department, which has not been working in conjunction with the Jewish community on an issue that is integral to the Orthodox community.

    Read the full letter here PDF

    “Compounding the problem is the fact that the Health Department has acted unilaterally in pursuing its agenda,” reads the letter, which is dated September 4th. “It informed community leaders of its decision to issue an official statement recommending against metzitzah b’peh and to publish its ‘Before the Bris’ brochure, only on the very day the statement was issued and the brochure published. It gave us exactly one day’s notice of its plan to propose a new regulation requiring written consent. It allowed the community no opportunity to review drafts of its statement, brochure or proposed regulation, or to have any meaningful input into the process.”

    Given the gravity of the proposed regulations, the Agudah is requesting that the vote be postponed to a later date, giving them the opportunity to discuss the matter at length with the Health Department.


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    44 Comments
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    ALTERG
    ALTERG
    11 years ago

    Who cares, we will anyway do the bris like we do in the past 5000 years, we will NOT listen to him anyway & he CAN’T do anything, waste of time

    Pereles
    Pereles
    11 years ago

    how is anyone going to know that your kid is having a bris??

    Ben_Kol
    Ben_Kol
    11 years ago

    According to DOH statistics, one in 4,098 babies that has mbp contracts herpes. This rate of disease is far too high for mbp to be permitted. Any practice (even a full-fledged mitzvah d’oraisa) that causes disease at a rate of of even “one in tens of thousands” is halachically forbidden.

    The only response I’ve heard so far is that the DoH hasn’t *proved* that mbp is linked to herpes. Well, how much proof is required? There is plenty of evidence: the location of lesions in the genital area, the timing of infection soon after the bris, patterns of infection associated with a given mohel, etc. The only think lacking is DNA evidence. But it’s absurd to wait until a DNA link is established because mohalim refuse to give DNA samples (I wonder why …).

    Furthermore, the halachah does not require 100% evidence. Even where doctors disagree whether something is dangerous, it is forbidden!

    Some rabbonim have come out and said this (search for Rabbi Moshe Zuriel’s teshuvah), but some seem to be more concerned about not getting rocks thrown through their windows.

    wsbrgh
    wsbrgh
    11 years ago

    Once more- Not ONCE is “b’peh” mentioned in Shas, Yore Deia, Rambam, Kol Bo, Maharsha, &c. &c.! Shas DOES say that metzitza is for HEALTH.So make metzitza MORE healthy.

    Ben_Kol
    Ben_Kol
    11 years ago

    The Agudah is afraid that the consent requirement is the first step towards banning mbp, which is the first step towards banning milah itself.

    That is silly.

    The last thing the politicians of NY city wants is a fight with the city’s large orthodox Jewish population. They have nothing to gain from it and everything to lose.

    So why is the NYC’s dept. of health getting involved?
    Perhaps the reason is exactly as they say: They have seen the evidence that mbp is dangerous, and so — in keeping with their task to protect the lives of this city’s citizens — they are trying to inform the public of this danger.

    Ben_Kol
    Ben_Kol
    11 years ago

    This is the p’sak of Rabbi Moshe Zuriel:

    “I would suggest that every conscientious father or mother take every true consideration for the benefit of the newborn infant, and ask the Mohel in advance to use the tube. And if he denies or objects, they should find another Mohel willing to accede to the psak of the Chasam Sofer, Rabbi Kook, Rabbi Herzog, or Rabbi Frank. True chassidus is not to be belligerent but to be intelligent and thoughtful, to be precautious within the limits of Torah Law.”

    misslydia128
    misslydia128
    11 years ago

    Can anyone tell me what’s wrong with gloves????????

    nmwagschal
    nmwagschal
    11 years ago

    The same goal can be accomplished by having the mohel get tested for herpes as opposed to banning metizah. Any mohel that would readily do metzisah bpeh with a positive herpes test is not a decent person should be banned from doing it . But for you New Yorkers Nanny Bloomberg knows best and untill you get rid of the Anti Everything self hating jew guy you will continue to be oppressed . You could always go to New Jersey for a Bris .

    sechelyoshor
    sechelyoshor
    11 years ago

    I’m just wondering what people would say if every mohel did give a DNA sample and then we proved that there exists a small percentage of babies who get herpes even if they had mezitza with a pipette. Would we then say no more metzitza under all cicurmstances?

    DRSLZ
    DRSLZ
    11 years ago

    The data cited by the Department of Health is flawed.
    The risk seems to be miniscule. For some, MBP is an absolute requirement.
    Governmental regulation of a purely religious act may have unforeseen consequences.
    By the way, will the government require J. Witnesses to sign informed consent forms when they or their loved ones are admitted to the hospital re: blood transfusions? Will Shiite Moslems, who flog themselves with whips during a religious ceremony, be required to sign informed consent forms? How about Catholics who drink wine as part of their service: will they be required to sign informed consent about the dangers of alcoholism?

    Adam_Neira
    Adam_Neira
    11 years ago

    I repeat…

    Metzitzah b’peh should be banned. End of story. Circumcision itself is not under attack. This is a simple halakhic issue to solve. The sucking ritual as part of the bris is not mentioned in the Pentateuch and even if it is a custom that has been passed down from mohels through the centuries does not make it right in this day and age. We don’t push goats off cliffs anymore to absolve our sins etc. etc. Sometimes it amazes me that in 2012/5772 the thinking of various “sages” and “scholars” is so medievil.

    People should also not confuse the MBP practise which is a custom that should be banned and brit milah which is a mitzvah. Disingenuous people are trying to confuse others. On small matters of principle do empires thrive or collapse.

    Wise-Guy
    Wise-Guy
    11 years ago

    1) Metzitzeh B’peh is Takeh not a must according to Halachah, but is very important according to Kaballah.
    The Ari Z”l says so. And I think most people would agree that the Ari is a “reliable” source. No less than the Chasam-Sofer Z’L and the Mishna-Brurah Z’L.

    2) Today there are still a myriad of Posskim that rule M’BP is important enough to practice in spite of the risk, because the risk is so very minute.
    These Rabonim are from Chassidish and Litvish and Sfardish backgrounds, and I believe they are as competent and numerous as the Rabbis that oppose the practice.

    3) I for one resent the implication that the Chareidi Rabbis care less about their children’s safety than the other Rabbis . Or that the city officials care more for our children than we do.
    (Note: MBP is not as convoluted or complex an issue as reporting child-molestors to the police without first consulting a Rav. Many Rabbis messed-up regarding the latter. But that issue does have a very “Gray area” because it deals with issues of “Messirah” and trusting the testimony of minors and recognizing and determining who is in fact a true “Rodef”.
    Whereas M’BP is more clear-cut. (Continued in next posting.)

    Wise-Guy
    Wise-Guy
    11 years ago

    Regarding MBP the question is simply: does the importance of this Mesorah and Kabbalistic practice outweigh the risk which is minuscule.)

    4) It infuriates me how disingenuous these government regulators can be!
    There are so many “practices” that are not related to religion and carry a much higher statistical risk.
    Many more children are hurt, maimed and even killed by such activities as bike-riding, swimming, skating or certain sports.
    Why doesn’t the city demand parents sign a consent-form before allowing their children to ride bikes?!
    Ask any pediatrician about how many children have been seriously injured when biking or skate-boarding or scooter-riding, even with a helmet…
    I knew a teen that was killed in a bicycle accident.
    Why is our “concerned” irreligious city-officials “picking on” the religious customs?
    Is it because they deem our “antiquated” traditions less important than riding a bike?!

    11 years ago

    Zwiebel and Weinberger are being less than truthful. The protocols agreed to in 2006 were not complied with and babies died. Who knows how many more got sick and how many are now suffering permanent brain damage.

    When have any of us heard any of our rabbonim darshen on the dangers of MbP?

    Agudah’s letter is disingenuous. It’s time to stop thinking about the mohels and Agudah’s and UJO’s political power and start thinking about the safety of our infants.

    Klal Yisroel abolished the worship of מלך a long time ago. Shame on Zwiebel and Weinberger for trying to resurrect it.

    DavidCohen
    DavidCohen
    11 years ago

    I’m glad that Agudah is urging the NYC Mayor to work with the Jewish community on Bris regulations. Now I’d like to see them urge the mohelim in the Jewish community to work with medical experts so as to benefit from advances in medicine and medical knowledge.

    basmelech
    basmelech
    11 years ago

    I am willing to take the risk and have my children’s milas done with MBP. Childbirth is also risky. Mothers used to die (and some still do) during childbirth, so should women stop having babies?

    chaim14
    chaim14
    11 years ago

    You can send an email directly to Commissioner Farley here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildoh.html.

    Shtarker
    Active Member
    Shtarker
    11 years ago

    Those who are not in favor of MbP have no need for a secular law restricting it. Those who are in favor of MbP will ignore a secular law restricting it, just as they ignore other secular laws they don’t like. Regardless, the Board of Health has a mandate to protect the general population from communicable diseases, and for this reason they don’t need the advice or consent of the Agudah. It has nothing to do with banning a religious practice, it’s a matter of protecting the public. Even if individual parents choose to accept the risk that their child may acquire a serious disease, that same child may one day pass that disease on to someone else. The BoH could have banned the practice altogether. Instead they showed restraint.

    Matzoslocal101
    Matzoslocal101
    11 years ago

    This is the part of Dr Tendler’s 40 year old war to control Milah in NY. It began with the Mt Sinai school of circumcision in 1968, continued with Brith milah board of NYC, and now he has resorted to fabricating information in order to get the DoH to do his bidding. In his Pediatric’s article Tendler lies and says that Semmelwies (who died in 1865) discovered disease transmission after a baby got tuberculosis from an infected Mohel (first case in the literature- Lindemann 1883), as result of this discovery the Chasam Sofer (who died in 1839) permitted the tube (that was created in 1887.) Likewise Rubin and Lanzkowsky quote articles in their Mar PIDJ and then write the opposite. Julia Schillinger also contradicts every paper she ever wrote on HSV. The Woman is an idiot.