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Jerusalem - Report: Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky Calls For iPhones To Be Burned

Published on: September 23, 2012 12:05 PM
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Jerusalem - Rabbi Haim Kanievsky, who ranks in some estimations among the top five most influential rabbinic authorities, issued a public notice on Sunday saying that anyone who owns an Apple iPhone should burn it.

In the pronouncement, published on the front page of Yated Neeman - the most influential haredi newspaper - as well as several other ultra-Orthodox dailies, Rabbi Kanievsky said that it is completely forbidden to own an iPhone, comparing the device to weapons of war in its potential to cause harm.

Rabbi Kanievsy’s public announcement is part of a general offensive being waged by many ultra-Orthodox rabbis at the moment, who frequently denounce smart phones and the Internet because of the ready access they provide to pornography, as well as sources of information beyond the strict confines of the ultra-Orthodox world.

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Many members of the ultra-Orthodox community have “kosher” cell phones that have no Internet connection and cannot send or receive text messages.

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1

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:10 PM Halaivy Says:

And anyone who listens to him and burns has a mithvah of V'osisoh Kechol Asher Yorucho

2

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:12 PM NeveAliza Says:

Baruch Hashem I have an android and am not included in this edict.

3

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:26 PM When will they finally get it, that "Bans" simply don't work? Says:

During the past decade, many such “bans” were made and none ever worked.

Remember the ban against Lipa Shmeltzer?

Lipa Shmeltzer is one of the most popular today!

The Ban actually helped make Lipa even more popular!

The reason children (and adults) go off the Derech has absolutely nothing at all, whatsoever to do with "the Internet".

4

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:28 PM Justleftkolel Says:

Great Idea, issue more rulings that nobody will listen too, this is definitely a great way to strengthen the influence of the Gedolim. Smart phones are part of society, they are not going away, deal with it in a reasonable way, they are here to stay.

5

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:35 PM Yaakov Says:

Is The "evil" Internet really the most pressing problem which Yiddishkeit faces today?

What;s the Real cause why we loose so many of of our youth, (and adults), who go off the Derech?

The Real cause, which makes people disillusioned with yiddishkiet, (is NOT the Internet, rather it) is when they see people making "Bans" instead of addressing the REAL issues, which is that people are disillusioned with all those, whom they are told to "look up to", when they see in these very same "leaders", their own corruption in the highest places.

Just one example is every single Jewish Leadership power and group and organisation, who are ALL covering up Molestation and fighting it's tougher legislation, because they fear it will come back to bite them.

Only someone who knows they are guilty has reason to fear tougher legislation to fight Molesters and only someone who has something to hide (like their own corruption) fears that it will be exposed via the Internet.

The photo is very appropriate to the article showing someone’s who's entire head is "in the books" with little knowledge of what works and what doesn’t work in the real world, today.

The Internet is not "THE" problem

6

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:37 PM Yechi Says:

Does the same apply to laptop computers? Or does he just not like Apple products.

Perhaps it has to do with thr original sin was (in some opinions )an Apple

7

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:

And here I was just planning on getting the new iphone.
What if one has a filter would that still be forbidden? (Many people have it) I personally believe that within five years all there would be is smart phones including in israel and its inevitable to stop it. Better to ask everyone to use filters on there internet.

8

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:48 PM TexasJew Says:

Everyone is born with a yetzer harah, it is our job to control it. There is so much good to these devices that they far out way the negatives.
But then again, I'm not a Godoal like the Rav Shlita.

9

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:49 PM Chana G Says:

When the Rabbanim said that women should burn their shaitels we listened - let us see if the men listen to, or find excuses to dismiss, HaRav Kanievsky. G-d is watching.

10

 Sep 23, 2012 at 12:50 PM shredready Says:

the whole story he added

“it is forbidden to posses” [an iPhone]. And not only can’t you own or posses an iPhone, if you have one, you must burn it. “[O]ne must burn it,” Kanievsky wrote, adding that “just as it is forbidden to sell a weapon to a non-Jew,

that means all the frum electronic stores cannot sell iphones to the public interesting

11

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:14 PM ber Says:

Reply to #3  
When will they finally get it, that "Bans" simply don't work? Says:

During the past decade, many such “bans” were made and none ever worked.

Remember the ban against Lipa Shmeltzer?

Lipa Shmeltzer is one of the most popular today!

The Ban actually helped make Lipa even more popular!

The reason children (and adults) go off the Derech has absolutely nothing at all, whatsoever to do with "the Internet".

....yes,and there was is a ban against haskalah aka reform and look how many there, are so we should join them? and thata where you and ypur offspring will end up iof not already. 'hamalik al divrei chachamin'you tipish.you know what haztalah porta means...Anyway you have your 'zakon mamrei 'rabbinner' who asird metzitzah bebah but he has no problem with all these klie maschis. sam hamoves berochnious.

12

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:15 PM DanielBarbaz Says:

How old is the Rav? And yet he is reading/ learning without wearing glasses!!!

He must be doing something right.

13

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:17 PM ber Says:

Reply to #8  
TexasJew Says:

Everyone is born with a yetzer harah, it is our job to control it. There is so much good to these devices that they far out way the negatives.
But then again, I'm not a Godoal like the Rav Shlita.

there is no such thing as good outweighs the bad. whan there is a sakna of mooves there is no such a thing as roiv, kolsheken meese berochnious...but you just all go ahead and bury your head in the sand

14

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Chana G Says:

When the Rabbanim said that women should burn their shaitels we listened - let us see if the men listen to, or find excuses to dismiss, HaRav Kanievsky. G-d is watching.

sorry but the rabbanim (at least the well known owns) never said to burn the sheitels they said to not wear them until all the issues could be figured out the people who burned them where not doing what the rabbinim said

15

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:27 PM Yaakov Says:

Reply to #9  
Chana G Says:

When the Rabbanim said that women should burn their shaitels we listened - let us see if the men listen to, or find excuses to dismiss, HaRav Kanievsky. G-d is watching.

By now everyone knows that every single person who pushed for the burning of the shatels was duped by those who had financial interests that everyone purchases alternative shaitels.

It doesn't matter how "big" any "big one" is because in the end he must rely on those around him who feed him erroneous information and so that Psak is based on non-reality and is therefore invalid by design. If the facts are wrong than automatically it invalidates the psak no matter how big anyone may be.

The political Jewish leadership fears that internet exposes their corruption, this leadership then goes to any big Posek who will believe them and sells them the bube maaseh and they in turn believe the bube maaseh and issue a ruling based on the bube maaseh they were told by the political leadership, which controls access to the Rav. Should you want to approach him to tell him the real facts you will be blocked by the gate-keeper of the Rabbi who has his own interest in controlling the Psak outcome

All major decisions or bans or "internet asifa" is made. It always begins with political powerbrokers that run around from rov to rov to get them to sign something which the rov knows NOTHING about

16

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:31 PM Barryfrombrooklyn Says:

Reply to #9  
Chana G Says:

When the Rabbanim said that women should burn their shaitels we listened - let us see if the men listen to, or find excuses to dismiss, HaRav Kanievsky. G-d is watching.

Too bad you burnt your shaitel.
If you had an iPhone back then, you probably wouldn't rush to burn your sheitel.
You would know better.
Maybe that is why they don't want us to have iPhones.
Ignorance is the glue that keeps orthodox Judaism as we practice it together.
If there is antidote for ignorance, it is apple products. The Yated knows this and is not happy about it.

17

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:33 PM A humble opinion Says:

Reply to #9  
Chana G Says:

When the Rabbanim said that women should burn their shaitels we listened - let us see if the men listen to, or find excuses to dismiss, HaRav Kanievsky. G-d is watching.

This is more difficult since there is no real replacement. Indian hair can be replaced with others, even though it's more expensive.

This a very big test for us, many might not comply. I believe that if they publicize it properly, it will be accepted by the Hamon am.

This is not simply a question of controlling yourself, the rabbis need to decide what is considered dangerous and what is necessary. If it is necessary, then you need something to be protected. A bomb that can blow unexpectedly isn't used, no matter how affective or cheap it may be, because it's dangerous. Guns are used even though many are killed from friendly fire etc. since it's necessary.

We need to be strong, and follow our genuine and sincere rabbonim. Chas v' shalom not to knock them

18

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:36 PM Reply to #2 & #6 Says:

Reply to #2  
NeveAliza Says:

Baruch Hashem I have an android and am not included in this edict.

I think its obvious rav chaim means to ban android phones as well but chose iphone as the main example being it has a more powerful name thereby he specified it. However his point is to ban phones that have a big screen with easy access to the internet. This includes tablets and laptops but the phone is holding the yetzer harah in your hand so its worse!

19

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:42 PM shredready Says:

the same thing was said when the printing press was invented and the phone

nothing new

20

 Sep 23, 2012 at 01:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Yaakov Says:

Is The "evil" Internet really the most pressing problem which Yiddishkeit faces today?

What;s the Real cause why we loose so many of of our youth, (and adults), who go off the Derech?

The Real cause, which makes people disillusioned with yiddishkiet, (is NOT the Internet, rather it) is when they see people making "Bans" instead of addressing the REAL issues, which is that people are disillusioned with all those, whom they are told to "look up to", when they see in these very same "leaders", their own corruption in the highest places.

Just one example is every single Jewish Leadership power and group and organisation, who are ALL covering up Molestation and fighting it's tougher legislation, because they fear it will come back to bite them.

Only someone who knows they are guilty has reason to fear tougher legislation to fight Molesters and only someone who has something to hide (like their own corruption) fears that it will be exposed via the Internet.

The photo is very appropriate to the article showing someone’s who's entire head is "in the books" with little knowledge of what works and what doesn’t work in the real world, today.

The Internet is not "THE" problem

the problem with you is you never had your head in the book. Internet is a problem because when you use search or even email many things pop up to incite your Yetzar Horoh. Rav Chaim Shilta knows more on what you studied than on you know on what he studied

21

 Sep 23, 2012 at 02:04 PM AlbertEinstein Says:

Never believe what you read in the media.

Rav Kanievsky never said to burn I-Phones. The report is false.

22

 Sep 23, 2012 at 02:09 PM ChareidiMan Says:

Nothing personal against this giant and great person, but he is surrounded by people that have an agenda or are whacked (just like most of the big Rabbis over the past 100 years have been surrounded by bums) and they are the ones that tell him what to do.

i think everyone would agree that Rabbi Chaim has no clue of any iphone features and he is brainwashed by people that have a lot of spare time on their hands, and it is a shame.

When the Pupa Rav ZT"L came out against the Eiruv 40 years ago, my father was there and he heard how his people told him that by having an eiruv would bring boys and girls together on the streets, so he came out against it.

Very unfortunate how easy these big rabbis can be manipulated, so this latest non sense has no value to me at all. He didnt say it, his "close advisors" did.

23

 Sep 23, 2012 at 02:16 PM CSLMoish Says:

I doubt he said this at all.......one does not make a ban on something that the majority of the people cannot withstand

24

 Sep 23, 2012 at 02:24 PM MIESQ Says:

Reply to #8  
TexasJew Says:

Everyone is born with a yetzer harah, it is our job to control it. There is so much good to these devices that they far out way the negatives.
But then again, I'm not a Godoal like the Rav Shlita.

Your point is well taken and represents a reasonable point of view. Clearly smart phones, internet et al have the ability to bring the worst humanity has to offer and then some. So therefore such devices become akin to a loaded gun which requires one be qualified to operate such a device. In the hands of an untrained person a gun is dangerous to everyoone in the hands of a soldier or police officer it become a toll for law and order.
This is what makes the Rav's pronouncement hard to understand that baning the device without calling on self improvementseems hollow and denies access to devices designed to provide much aid to the user-GPS, access email, video conferencing for business or between friends or relatives seperated by distance eyc. . . Not to argue one iota with the Rav but it leaves one with more questions that anything else.

25

 Sep 23, 2012 at 02:48 PM shmuel Says:

The worst thing about these bans is not that they are ignorant and ineffectual, it's that it shrinks the stature of today's gedolim.

26

 Sep 23, 2012 at 03:17 PM cynic Says:

Hmm, burning an iphone is a bit hazardous, what with all the plastics and toxins in the smoke. Tell you what. Instead of burning them, how's about giving me a call and I'll come by and take them off your hands...

27

 Sep 23, 2012 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Yechi Says:

Does the same apply to laptop computers? Or does he just not like Apple products.

Perhaps it has to do with thr original sin was (in some opinions )an Apple

Which opinion? As far as I know there are 3 opinions: that it was either a fig, a grape, or wheat. The apple was invented by the non-Jews.

28

 Sep 23, 2012 at 03:45 PM yeah sure Says:

I don't believe he went as far as saying they should be burned. Watching R' Kanievsky saying Kaddish at the Siyum showed him as extremely frail. His father, the Steipler, zt"l in regard to the question of my relative's parents owning a TV, told him "don't walk into the room with the TV". He didn't say burn it, he didn't say tell your parents to get rid of it, he didn't say anything negative about it at all!!!

29

 Sep 23, 2012 at 03:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Chana G Says:

When the Rabbanim said that women should burn their shaitels we listened - let us see if the men listen to, or find excuses to dismiss, HaRav Kanievsky. G-d is watching.

Are you for real? You burned it?? I'm still wearing mine!! Besides, we in the United States follow our own Gedolim. Most of those here, had no problem with those wigs at all.

30

 Sep 23, 2012 at 03:59 PM Mayer Alter Says:

Senile or totally hoodwinked by those around him. Which is it?

31

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:07 PM bythebay Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

the problem with you is you never had your head in the book. Internet is a problem because when you use search or even email many things pop up to incite your Yetzar Horoh. Rav Chaim Shilta knows more on what you studied than on you know on what he studied

Interestingly, the iPhone's search bar eliminates the need to see any ads at all, making it an easy way to gain information without any of the outside influences from Western society. Personally, I love using mine to bentch, daven, search for recipes for Shabbos, and read this site. It's a far more streamlined, ad-free way of browsing the Internet.

32

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:28 PM Sociologist Says:

With all due respect to this rav, but he and his colleagues keep making a joke of the supposed leadership of the frum world.

33

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:33 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #6  
Yechi Says:

Does the same apply to laptop computers? Or does he just not like Apple products.

Perhaps it has to do with thr original sin was (in some opinions )an Apple

An apple? That is a very Christian perspective. The גמרא in סנהדרין ע ע"א- ב says the forbidden fruit was either a grape, a wheat stalk, or a fig:

דתניא רבי מאיר אומר אותו אילן שאכל אדם הראשון ממנו גפן היה שאין לך דבר שמביא יללה לאדם אלא יין. רבי יהודה אומר חטה היה שאין התינוק יודע לקרוא אבא ואימא עד שיטעום טעם דגן. רבי נחמיה אומר תאנה היה שבדבר שקלקלו בו נתקנו.

34

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:38 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #11  
ber Says:

....yes,and there was is a ban against haskalah aka reform and look how many there, are so we should join them? and thata where you and ypur offspring will end up iof not already. 'hamalik al divrei chachamin'you tipish.you know what haztalah porta means...Anyway you have your 'zakon mamrei 'rabbinner' who asird metzitzah bebah but he has no problem with all these klie maschis. sam hamoves berochnious.

"Anyway you have your 'zakon mamrei 'rabbinner' who asird metzitzah bebah but he has no problem with all these klie maschis."

My, my! But, you are a nasty one! Is that the kind of השפעה you get from תורה?

35

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:40 PM a nelson Says:

not the smartest idea to burn anything with lithium batteries.

36

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:47 PM OYVY2 Says:

Reply to #5  
Yaakov Says:

Is The "evil" Internet really the most pressing problem which Yiddishkeit faces today?

What;s the Real cause why we loose so many of of our youth, (and adults), who go off the Derech?

The Real cause, which makes people disillusioned with yiddishkiet, (is NOT the Internet, rather it) is when they see people making "Bans" instead of addressing the REAL issues, which is that people are disillusioned with all those, whom they are told to "look up to", when they see in these very same "leaders", their own corruption in the highest places.

Just one example is every single Jewish Leadership power and group and organisation, who are ALL covering up Molestation and fighting it's tougher legislation, because they fear it will come back to bite them.

Only someone who knows they are guilty has reason to fear tougher legislation to fight Molesters and only someone who has something to hide (like their own corruption) fears that it will be exposed via the Internet.

The photo is very appropriate to the article showing someone’s who's entire head is "in the books" with little knowledge of what works and what doesn’t work in the real world, today.

The Internet is not "THE" problem

you are 100% correct when will they get it right

37

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:48 PM RebKlemson Says:

He is talking to a different crowd, not us. we're already lost forever according to them so just dont get offended. we're lost together lets get our moneys worth

38

 Sep 23, 2012 at 04:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Never mind hassidim, in 30 years, when the civilized world lives in "smart" homes largely controlled by omnipresent electronics, sensitive to numerous triggers, will the "orthodox" Jews of 2042 be living in specially constructed "huts" on Shabbat and Yom Tovim that are carefully designed to be devoid of electronics?

Will they stay rooted in the house during the entire time, to avoid triggering inevitable electricity?

39

 Sep 23, 2012 at 05:00 PM Anonymous Says:

With all the problems in EY, don't our gadolim have anything better to do than ban the internet, iphones and television?? Its getting tiring week after week to watch families desparately in need of food, better schools, housing and chizuk in general and instead of working with the elected officials on real problems, they are burning iphones and holding asifas about the dangers of the internet.

40

 Sep 23, 2012 at 05:03 PM peirush-tzovua Says:

This is actually a kula by Rav Kanievsky, since Kull Hanisruphin Ephrun Mootor (although I wouln't know how to actually burn an iPhone).

41

 Sep 23, 2012 at 05:16 PM acanada Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

Which opinion? As far as I know there are 3 opinions: that it was either a fig, a grape, or wheat. The apple was invented by the non-Jews.

...hence the call to burn the apple!

42

 Sep 23, 2012 at 05:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
Reply to #2 & #6 Says:

I think its obvious rav chaim means to ban android phones as well but chose iphone as the main example being it has a more powerful name thereby he specified it. However his point is to ban phones that have a big screen with easy access to the internet. This includes tablets and laptops but the phone is holding the yetzer harah in your hand so its worse!

...and holding the Yetzer Harah on your lap is OK by you?? And exactly how do you hold your tablet? Besides, there's precedence for breaking the tablets - Moshe Rabbeinu already did so!

43

 Sep 23, 2012 at 05:35 PM mihadrin min hamihadrin Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

Are you for real? You burned it?? I'm still wearing mine!! Besides, we in the United States follow our own Gedolim. Most of those here, had no problem with those wigs at all.

I live in the U.S. and as soon as I heard that we are supposed to burn the sheitels, I immediately burned my sheitel while it was still on my head. I felt the wonderful glow and warmth of listening to chochmim.

44

 Sep 23, 2012 at 05:57 PM anonymous23 Says:

The iPhone 5 is not burnable.

45

 Sep 23, 2012 at 06:07 PM Y'think? Says:

Will B&H, Adorama, Focus, Buzz, Duddy's and all the other Chareidi/chasidish owned stores stop selling these smart phones, tablets etc and join together in a great big advertising bonanza bonfire of these products?

46

 Sep 23, 2012 at 06:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

Never mind hassidim, in 30 years, when the civilized world lives in "smart" homes largely controlled by omnipresent electronics, sensitive to numerous triggers, will the "orthodox" Jews of 2042 be living in specially constructed "huts" on Shabbat and Yom Tovim that are carefully designed to be devoid of electronics?

Will they stay rooted in the house during the entire time, to avoid triggering inevitable electricity?

so lets hear, vwhat type of jew are you? believe in torah misinai?just half?only what your comfortalble with etc etc

47

 Sep 23, 2012 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
Anonymous Says:

so lets hear, vwhat type of jew are you? believe in torah misinai?just half?only what your comfortalble with etc etc

What type of Jew I am is completely irrelevant.

What is relevant is how will (or if) currently accepted halacha (as of 2012) change for those who are orthodox in 2042. As I see it, there are only two choices:

1) Orthodox become the new Amish, or

2) Some way of re-interpreting current, fairly clear bans on use of electronics.

Neither option is very appealing. However, one does not need to be Ray Kurzweil to realize the future will bring one or the other.

48

 Sep 23, 2012 at 06:55 PM eschwartz Says:

It's quite ridiculous to try living in a cave for the rest of your life. You can't escape from society. That being said, I definitely understand the extreme dangers present in iphones, Internet, computers etc.
What (many) people don't seem to get is that there IS a solution. It is a very common solution, used by anyone who has actually had EXPERIENCE with technology: filters. Funnily enough, it's the goyim who came up with the technology to block unwanted content. With a decent filter (and there are hundreds out there, many of which are free) a parent can block sites according to category, choose specific sites to be blocked on top of that, or simply block all sites except for a few specially selected ones.
Ads are the easiest. No one really wants stupid pictures popping up that you didn't ask for, not even goyim, and AdBlock Plus is your friend there, the most important addon available for Firefox Web.
It is far more dangerous, really, to alienate the whole Jewish world by ridiculous statements which boil down to "technology is evil, lets burn it." And the gedolim are clever enough to realize this, which is how I know someone misquoted or lied about what Rav Kaniefsky said.

49

 Sep 23, 2012 at 07:31 PM annonymous Says:

why cant we sell it? arois gevorfen yiddish gelt...

50

 Sep 23, 2012 at 08:03 PM ber Says:

Reply to #34  
bewhiskered Says:

"Anyway you have your 'zakon mamrei 'rabbinner' who asird metzitzah bebah but he has no problem with all these klie maschis."

My, my! But, you are a nasty one! Is that the kind of השפעה you get from תורה?

my torah taught me that 'sefer torah shekosvo min yeshoreif' dehenu. it was writtrn kehilchoso etc etc not worth a penny ...another example. maskil came to netziv's town wanted to drush said to netziv i will only qoute mamar chazal, not my own..told him kosher meat cooked in treif pot becomes tref. not that it applies here but 'hamaskil yovin' which your not. have a feeling to you it does apply. remember one can be bokee bechol hatorah but has to be' im hrav dome l'malach hashem tzevous yevakshu torah mepihu ...... ' 'sod hashem lireyov' etc otherwise his torah is ziltzh.so like i said , if this 'rabbi' would would be heard when fighting for kedushas am yisroel, tzenious, rochnious holocaust from these kli mashchis etc etc and also this subjnu..nu.....but you only hear him with psak halacha going against true 'im hrav dome lemalach hashem tzevuos'...but of course you have no idea of these concepts. by the way you have guilty consense..i didnt mention name which 'rabbi' your refering to?

51

 Sep 23, 2012 at 08:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Chana G Says:

When the Rabbanim said that women should burn their shaitels we listened - let us see if the men listen to, or find excuses to dismiss, HaRav Kanievsky. G-d is watching.

Dear Channale....go burn your shetels and snoods if you have too much time on your hands eruv yom tov. But 99 percent of normal yidden WILL dismiss this nareshkeit.

52

 Sep 23, 2012 at 08:18 PM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

If you do burn your iPhone, make sure to delete your Daf Yomi from it first, or else you run into other issues. Also check with Verizon to see if your phone insurance covers Idiocy fire damage, or just accidental fire damage.

53

 Sep 23, 2012 at 09:16 PM Anonymous Says:

In my humble opinion, I feel that alot of our choshuve Gedolei Hador- are pressured in to signing documents that they are not fully informed of its cotent. This also pertains to some organizations...that they suposedly sign under. It is not the language of R' Kanievsky to speak like a zealot and use that language.
Now if we want to discuss why adults are going off the derech- this is my personal experience: when living in a community- in which NO ONE will invite a single mother to a shabbos meal in over a year and a half, yet they are very intersted in the gossip- That causes even the strongest and frummest of us to lose faith in the frum world. & when I donated thousands of dollars to a known organization in Israel- & then hit hard times, i called them for a loan- they said they only help aniyei eretz yisrael- so I asked "should I move to eretz yisrael? " they said they would call me back...im still waiting... Baruch HaShem- HaShem helped me. I know I am not the only one struggling with these feelings. Our issue is not HaShem or His beautiful Torah! It is some of the people/ misguided zealots.....
May we merit to greet Mashiach & to do HaShems will in the best way that we each can

54

 Sep 23, 2012 at 09:52 PM STRAIGHT_FACTS Says:

Reply to #28  
yeah sure Says:

I don't believe he went as far as saying they should be burned. Watching R' Kanievsky saying Kaddish at the Siyum showed him as extremely frail. His father, the Steipler, zt"l in regard to the question of my relative's parents owning a TV, told him "don't walk into the room with the TV". He didn't say burn it, he didn't say tell your parents to get rid of it, he didn't say anything negative about it at all!!!

His regard for kibbud av was probably the reason for his advise. Be careful with his kavod; he is a giant.

55

 Sep 23, 2012 at 09:58 PM ber Says:

Reply to #51  
Anonymous Says:

Dear Channale....go burn your shetels and snoods if you have too much time on your hands eruv yom tov. But 99 percent of normal yidden WILL dismiss this nareshkeit.

normal yidden you mean MO and down, conservative, reform (which are mostly not yidden as they deny maternal lineage( Not to mention the concept of torah misini) etcc, but not normal yidden, those who believe torah both parts as in S'U they will heed the cry of our holy sages aka hagoen chaim kanievsky, shevt haleivy etc etc

56

 Sep 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM TrueGuy Says:

Take out the real words what he ment to say.. Not to 'burn' or to throw in the garbage.. He Ment To Say what EVERYBODY knows already that this causes Not good things and u shouldn't have it AND HE IS 100% RIGHT!!

57

 Sep 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM rivka Says:

Reply to #22  
ChareidiMan Says:

Nothing personal against this giant and great person, but he is surrounded by people that have an agenda or are whacked (just like most of the big Rabbis over the past 100 years have been surrounded by bums) and they are the ones that tell him what to do.

i think everyone would agree that Rabbi Chaim has no clue of any iphone features and he is brainwashed by people that have a lot of spare time on their hands, and it is a shame.

When the Pupa Rav ZT"L came out against the Eiruv 40 years ago, my father was there and he heard how his people told him that by having an eiruv would bring boys and girls together on the streets, so he came out against it.

Very unfortunate how easy these big rabbis can be manipulated, so this latest non sense has no value to me at all. He didnt say it, his "close advisors" did.

I agree with you. I cannot imagine that Rav Kanievsky has a clue about iphones. In fact, in the new Artscroll bio of Rebbetzin Kanievsky, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that they still do not even have a landline phone!!!

58

 Sep 23, 2012 at 11:00 PM anon1m0us Says:

Since it is before Yom Kippur and one must to teshuva, I will self sacrifice myself for the sake of the Klal and proclaim that whomever wishes to destroy their iPhone, save yourself the trouble. I will be more than glad to come to your home or place of business and take it off your hands.

Remember, you must listen to the gadolai hador and ged rid of it. I will take this enormous responsibility and get rid of it for you; free!

59

 Sep 23, 2012 at 11:10 PM UseYourHead Says:

Perhaps there was a miscommunication and he meant to say that the Apple iPhone is a smash hit? (This is pure speculation on my part.)

I'd also point out that if one does choose to burn the iPhone, I would do it from a good distance because there's got to be some toxic fumes and other nasty stuff when you burn all those electronic components (including the battery).

60

 Sep 23, 2012 at 11:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
rivka Says:

I agree with you. I cannot imagine that Rav Kanievsky has a clue about iphones. In fact, in the new Artscroll bio of Rebbetzin Kanievsky, I'm pretty sure I remember reading that they still do not even have a landline phone!!!

I guess what you say confirms the point made by several earlier posters. If as you say "Kaniesvsky doesn't have a clue" about iPhones and other modern technology and don't even have a regular landline phone, perhaps he should focus his kok korehs on subjects he may know somthing about and not allow his gabboim to lend his name to this iphone burning meshugaas. He loses credibility with such crazy ideas attributed to him.

61

 Sep 23, 2012 at 11:45 PM PASHUT Says:

I'd like to know who gave the Rav the info on what an iphone is. I don't have one, and i don't want one - so this totally doesn't effect me. But, its hard to really, truly respect a psak if you know 100% for sure that the Rav doesn't know the difference between an iphone, an 8 track player, a cd player, a beeper or an ipod. Its all the spin of the person who is giving him the info.

62

 Sep 23, 2012 at 11:59 PM Grumpy Says:

Reply to #18  
Reply to #2 & #6 Says:

I think its obvious rav chaim means to ban android phones as well but chose iphone as the main example being it has a more powerful name thereby he specified it. However his point is to ban phones that have a big screen with easy access to the internet. This includes tablets and laptops but the phone is holding the yetzer harah in your hand so its worse!

You're wrong. Clearly, Daas Torah would have said Android, too, if that's what was meant. Don't go on adding to Halacha. If this new halacha is to burn an iPhone, without any mention of Android, then that's what it means. If there is a need to create a new Halacha that includes Android, we can rely on Daas Torah to do that for us.

63

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:01 AM berelw Says:

perhaps the rav means to burn the 3 or 4,,and then get the iphone 5

64

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:28 AM UseYourHead Says:

I think I know whom Microsoft is going to pick as their new posek.

65

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:29 AM UseYourHead Says:

Okay the p'shat is very simple. We all know that Artscroll recently released a Talmud app for the iPhone (davka, not Android). Since it is already widely recognized that the Artscroll is treife, it follows that the iPhone must be destoryed.

66

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
berelw Says:

perhaps the rav means to burn the 3 or 4,,and then get the iphone 5

I think there is rare concensus here that this is another "Shmeltzer Moment" (as many here recall about a similiar "burn Lipa" kol koreh several years ago where the signers later admitted they had never listened to a Lipa concert or CD. The Rav is barely aware that the telegraph has been replace by the copper wire line and knows nothing about Iphone versus android. It is not funny a big chillul hashem for whomever attributed this nareshkeit to the heilege rav during the aseres y'mai tshuvah. Maybe tomorrow we will read that we should shulg kaporos with an iphone before throwing them into the fire.

67

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Grumpy Says:

You're wrong. Clearly, Daas Torah would have said Android, too, if that's what was meant. Don't go on adding to Halacha. If this new halacha is to burn an iPhone, without any mention of Android, then that's what it means. If there is a need to create a new Halacha that includes Android, we can rely on Daas Torah to do that for us.

Well I can't bring proof to what I said,however its so clear that's what he meant. His point is to ban us from carrying the internet in our pockets. In my eyes its clear as the sun shining at midday. In few months you will see "android" added to the list for people that think like you. Shana tova!

68

 Sep 24, 2012 at 03:03 AM ber Says:

Reply to #58  
anon1m0us Says:

Since it is before Yom Kippur and one must to teshuva, I will self sacrifice myself for the sake of the Klal and proclaim that whomever wishes to destroy their iPhone, save yourself the trouble. I will be more than glad to come to your home or place of business and take it off your hands.

Remember, you must listen to the gadolai hador and ged rid of it. I will take this enormous responsibility and get rid of it for you; free!

and remember you take great responsibility by mocking gedolei hador see brochos 19a top

69

 Sep 24, 2012 at 03:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Tough life to be given a perfectly good iphone by Hashem only to destroy it in an ugly rage. But say what you want about todays ultra orthodox, they sure know how to control their viewing and their agenda. Too bad that Hashem doesn't do that himself.

70

 Sep 24, 2012 at 05:58 AM HaNavon Says:

Yeah, we've heard it all before Rabbi...
Remember when you made all of those women burn their shaitlech? You said it was takruvos avoda zara, but then in the end, it turned out you were fooled.
You still haven't reimbursed those women for their financial losses as per the Halacha in Choshen Mishpat.

71

 Sep 24, 2012 at 06:41 AM {Ploni Says:

Where does Rav Kanievsky stand on iPads? I was given one as a retirement gift by my colleagues.

Seriously, I find it extremely useful for studying the daf yomi.

72

 Sep 24, 2012 at 06:47 AM {Ploni Says:

Reply to #58  
anon1m0us Says:

Since it is before Yom Kippur and one must to teshuva, I will self sacrifice myself for the sake of the Klal and proclaim that whomever wishes to destroy their iPhone, save yourself the trouble. I will be more than glad to come to your home or place of business and take it off your hands.

Remember, you must listen to the gadolai hador and ged rid of it. I will take this enormous responsibility and get rid of it for you; free!

Anon1m0us: a modern-day שעיר לעזאזל!

גמר חתימה טובה to anon1m0us - and to each and every one of all the other VIN contributors and commentators who have alternately amused me, educated me, annoyed me and - above all - improved my hashkafat ha'olam throughout the year.

Thank you, one and all.

73

 Sep 24, 2012 at 08:06 AM Alteh-Bucher Says:

He said Iphone or smartphone ?

74

 Sep 24, 2012 at 09:17 AM Anonymous Says:

I'm a deaf shomer shabbos. I'm not giving up iPhone 5! I need many forms of communication as I cannot, I repeat, cannot use voice phone at all. I can use iPhone for video relay service while I am not home. I don't appreciate being told what to do by them who has no knowledge of deaf needs.

75

 Sep 24, 2012 at 09:21 AM Anonymous Says:

I know its erev yom kippur, but the truth is that I stopped caring about any and all "bans" a long time ago. To me, any kol koreh should be used to line a cat's litter box; then again, it would be redundant. These gedolim should learn once and for all to stop listening to every idiot that comes knocking on his door. Who are these askanim and who asked for them to represent the rest of us?

76

 Sep 24, 2012 at 09:29 AM Benny Says:

To # 5
I am very strongly desagree with you how to talk about our gdoilim
We might say we don't understand or it's hard for us to do
But to say they they don't understand?
Look it at it as my personal "mocho" to you

77

 Sep 24, 2012 at 09:52 AM MosheHalevi Says:

Statements like these make our Gedolim look very foolish and make them loose all credibility.

78

 Sep 24, 2012 at 10:13 AM Yipyap Says:

If the Steipler's son says to do, we do. Who are we to argue? I caught my son watching mixed dancing on his phone and immediately took it away and locked in my desk drawer. now he is using my blackberry

79

 Sep 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM Josh38 Says:

Reply to #48  
eschwartz Says:

It's quite ridiculous to try living in a cave for the rest of your life. You can't escape from society. That being said, I definitely understand the extreme dangers present in iphones, Internet, computers etc.
What (many) people don't seem to get is that there IS a solution. It is a very common solution, used by anyone who has actually had EXPERIENCE with technology: filters. Funnily enough, it's the goyim who came up with the technology to block unwanted content. With a decent filter (and there are hundreds out there, many of which are free) a parent can block sites according to category, choose specific sites to be blocked on top of that, or simply block all sites except for a few specially selected ones.
Ads are the easiest. No one really wants stupid pictures popping up that you didn't ask for, not even goyim, and AdBlock Plus is your friend there, the most important addon available for Firefox Web.
It is far more dangerous, really, to alienate the whole Jewish world by ridiculous statements which boil down to "technology is evil, lets burn it." And the gedolim are clever enough to realize this, which is how I know someone misquoted or lied about what Rav Kaniefsky said.

Actually, there IS another solution. It's called self-control. As in, use your iPhone to call you wife, your family, your friends. Don't use your iPhone to surf porn sites.

80

 Sep 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM Asking Says:

Reply to #76  
Benny Says:

To # 5
I am very strongly desagree with you how to talk about our gdoilim
We might say we don't understand or it's hard for us to do
But to say they they don't understand?
Look it at it as my personal "mocho" to you

"I am very strongly desagree with you how to talk about our gdoilim"

Why? Haven't "our gdoilim" got sufficient moral strength to survive comments and criticism?

If they have not, or if they can not, then they have no right to the description; they are just human beings like the rest of us, no more.

And when THAT happens, all the magic and the majesty dissolve surrounding and given to those "gdoilim" disappears - rather like the story of the emperor and his new clothes.

81

 Sep 24, 2012 at 11:39 AM ber Says:

Reply to #77  
MosheHalevi Says:

Statements like these make our Gedolim look very foolish and make them loose all credibility.

listen here young man , you and your like minded friends have nothing to fret. your kind of 'gedolim' dr rabinner, cenrtists rabbis, rabbi professors, rabbi dr professor rabbi professor dr etc etc they have no problem your having ipod, youpod, blackberrys, bluberries (sour cream too?), tv and all klei mashchis that are metamai the guf and neshomo and who.mock mihagay yisroal midor dor etc etc So whats your and your cronies problem? We will stick to our holy gedolei yisroel, you know those primitive ghetto backward rebbes as some of your cronies describe them , who wernt tainted with torah 'umadda' only the maddah of the holy torah,' hafoch bo vehafoch bo dekilo bo' and have the yiras shomayim to be mechavin shmatai alibe dhilchse' vhureich beyiras hasem' like the kehilos yackov, chazon ish, vayoel moshe, minchaus yitzchok, igros moshe, mishnas aharon... boirom neilech umipihem unu chayim and you stick to your dr rabbinne professos centrist 'rah-bonim' and every thing will be fine and dandy

82

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM Shtusim Mamash Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

...and holding the Yetzer Harah on your lap is OK by you?? And exactly how do you hold your tablet? Besides, there's precedence for breaking the tablets - Moshe Rabbeinu already did so!

First of all, what this Rabbi is absolutely not binding on the vast majority of frum Yidden since he is a Daas Yochid and no other Rav hold like him

Secondly the Torah makes no difference on looking at an Untniusdik Dressed women, if it's only One Tefach of her upper arm (if she is wearing short sleaves) or if one is looking at anything generally regarded as more provocative. The Torah is Torah and does not differentiate

We humanas differentiate but Torah does not differentiate and forbid EQUALLY looking at the slightest part of women's upper arm, if she is wearing untsniusdik short sleeves just as and EQUAL to whatever anyone can see on an iPhone - Torah does NOT differentiate al pi halacha

Therefore
If we are to forbid using an iphone it is certainly forbidden to walk to shull through the street on Yom Kipur. Everyone should stay home because it is FOR SURE that on the street you will see 100% for sure Goyishe women not dressed Tzniusdik.

If you use an iPhone it is NOT 100% for sure because you have the power to decide to chose what you see on your iphone - so iphone is Mutar.

Don't go to Shull Yom Kipur (according to Kanievsky) because its FAR worse than iphone

83

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:25 PM Doing it to ones self Says:

Reply to #68  
ber Says:

and remember you take great responsibility by mocking gedolei hador see brochos 19a top

No one is mocking anyone, but if someone goes outside dressed as clown, you can't blame anyone if they are unable to contain themselves and accidentally, burst out laughing at what he said.

It's clear that when someone walks on the street, i.e. on every single city street, traveling to work, on the train, walking or driving to work or to shop or to shull, you are 100% guaranteed to see women in a forbidden manner.

On an Iphone is NOT guaranteed and it is 100% feasible to avoid looking at anything which is forbidden on an iphone, but not on any big busy business street in NYC..

If, whoever recommends to burn the iphone, will, tomorrow, perhaps recommend, burning all all city streets, burn all city buses and burn all city subways, it will be just as funny and no one will take him seriously either for the same reason, because it simply just doesn't make any sense and 100% uncalled for except if someone is a mindless fanatic not thinking about what he is saying/.

84

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:41 PM Havdalavelt Says:

Reply to #78  
Yipyap Says:

If the Steipler's son says to do, we do. Who are we to argue? I caught my son watching mixed dancing on his phone and immediately took it away and locked in my desk drawer. now he is using my blackberry

I agree completely. i had a similar expereince when i caught my son weatching the synchronized swimming event during the olympics. I took away the phone and severely punished him (no reading books or newspapers for until after succos), and then a few weeks later, I caught him building a raft on shabbos. Rachmana letzlan... i need the internet for parnassah and don't have a solution.

85

 Sep 24, 2012 at 12:46 PM ber Says:

Reply to #82  
Shtusim Mamash Says:

First of all, what this Rabbi is absolutely not binding on the vast majority of frum Yidden since he is a Daas Yochid and no other Rav hold like him

Secondly the Torah makes no difference on looking at an Untniusdik Dressed women, if it's only One Tefach of her upper arm (if she is wearing short sleaves) or if one is looking at anything generally regarded as more provocative. The Torah is Torah and does not differentiate

We humanas differentiate but Torah does not differentiate and forbid EQUALLY looking at the slightest part of women's upper arm, if she is wearing untsniusdik short sleeves just as and EQUAL to whatever anyone can see on an iPhone - Torah does NOT differentiate al pi halacha

Therefore
If we are to forbid using an iphone it is certainly forbidden to walk to shull through the street on Yom Kipur. Everyone should stay home because it is FOR SURE that on the street you will see 100% for sure Goyishe women not dressed Tzniusdik.

If you use an iPhone it is NOT 100% for sure because you have the power to decide to chose what you see on your iphone - so iphone is Mutar.

Don't go to Shull Yom Kipur (according to Kanievsky) because its FAR worse than iphone

you shaygatz!! you have the audacity to address this holy sage as 'kanie...'remeber the gemmorah brochois 19a. i have nof safak so terrible misfotune will befall you. advice: you have to go personnally to hagoan hatzaddik rav kanievsky for mechileh the faster the better. i know personally people who were such mechitzofem to geodolai hador ze hoben meece obgeshniten. besides your whole pilpul is real bores. the main piche is 'ein dionin efsher mishe u efshr plus more..and gemorrah eirvun 'u ike darkAI ACHRUNE RASHA HU'

86

 Sep 24, 2012 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Everybody calm down! It's erev Yom Kippur. Every one of us has a da'as and is chelek elokei mima'al. We should have repsect for all shitas, but since Rabonim & Askanim can't watch everyone else 24/7, ultimately, it's all about individual self-control. And that's the bottom line. G'mar chasimah tovah.

87

 Sep 24, 2012 at 01:18 PM {Ploni Says:

"Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky Calls For iPhones To Be Burned" - headline to this story.

What is it about chassidut (a wonderful institution in its own right, I must stress) that makes its adherents suspend all their personal powers of logic and judgment, and blindly follow whatever 'diktat' is handed down "in the name of the rav"?

It's all in the mind, you know.

88

 Sep 24, 2012 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
Yipyap Says:

If the Steipler's son says to do, we do. Who are we to argue? I caught my son watching mixed dancing on his phone and immediately took it away and locked in my desk drawer. now he is using my blackberry

I very much doubt there was a video or images of the heilege Steipler or anyone related to him engaged in mixed dancing unless it was somthing like a mitzvah tanz at his daughter's chassane....In either case, I'm not sure if it makes a diference if you watch such pritzus on an iPhone or a blackberry

89

 Sep 24, 2012 at 01:35 PM dov Says:

Reply to #86  
Anonymous Says:

Everybody calm down! It's erev Yom Kippur. Every one of us has a da'as and is chelek elokei mima'al. We should have repsect for all shitas, but since Rabonim & Askanim can't watch everyone else 24/7, ultimately, it's all about individual self-control. And that's the bottom line. G'mar chasimah tovah.

do me a favor and let me worry about my yom kippur

90

 Sep 24, 2012 at 02:09 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

Never mind hassidim, in 30 years, when the civilized world lives in "smart" homes largely controlled by omnipresent electronics, sensitive to numerous triggers, will the "orthodox" Jews of 2042 be living in specially constructed "huts" on Shabbat and Yom Tovim that are carefully designed to be devoid of electronics?

Will they stay rooted in the house during the entire time, to avoid triggering inevitable electricity?

secularconservativereform like you have been telling us for centuries that to live in the "modern world" we have to abandon yiddishkheit. Nothing new in what you are saying. The only thing I don't understand is how you don't tire of repeating the same mantra again and again and again and again...

91

 Sep 24, 2012 at 02:17 PM davidj Says:

Reasonable filters are the way for all internet access (including the Iphone).

92

 Sep 24, 2012 at 02:34 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #79  
Josh38 Says:

Actually, there IS another solution. It's called self-control. As in, use your iPhone to call you wife, your family, your friends. Don't use your iPhone to surf porn sites.

Why would anybody need a smart phone just to make phone calls?

93

 Sep 24, 2012 at 02:47 PM Yipyap Says:

Reply to #88  
Anonymous Says:

I very much doubt there was a video or images of the heilege Steipler or anyone related to him engaged in mixed dancing unless it was somthing like a mitzvah tanz at his daughter's chassane....In either case, I'm not sure if it makes a diference if you watch such pritzus on an iPhone or a blackberry

I didnt say the steipler was engaged in it. i said i saw my son watching mixed dancing. you jump to conclusions

94

 Sep 24, 2012 at 02:47 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #87  
{Ploni Says:

"Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky Calls For iPhones To Be Burned" - headline to this story.

What is it about chassidut (a wonderful institution in its own right, I must stress) that makes its adherents suspend all their personal powers of logic and judgment, and blindly follow whatever 'diktat' is handed down "in the name of the rav"?

It's all in the mind, you know.

It's ALL in the mind? As is ignorance? For Rav Chaim Kanievsky has nothing to do with any Chassidus and may even be opposed to it. (some of the men to whom he is related by blood or marriage were opposed to it publicly).

95

 Sep 24, 2012 at 03:18 PM dondo Says:

Reply to #13  
ber Says:

there is no such thing as good outweighs the bad. whan there is a sakna of mooves there is no such a thing as roiv, kolsheken meese berochnious...but you just all go ahead and bury your head in the sand

ever driven a car on the highway? flew on an airplane? yea....

96

 Sep 24, 2012 at 03:22 PM Daniel Says:

Reply to #13  
ber Says:

there is no such thing as good outweighs the bad. whan there is a sakna of mooves there is no such a thing as roiv, kolsheken meese berochnious...but you just all go ahead and bury your head in the sand

also id like to point out the obvious irony that this entire forum is being held over the internet.

97

 Sep 24, 2012 at 03:29 PM anon1m0us Says:

Reply to #72  
{Ploni Says:

Anon1m0us: a modern-day שעיר לעזאזל!

גמר חתימה טובה to anon1m0us - and to each and every one of all the other VIN contributors and commentators who have alternately amused me, educated me, annoyed me and - above all - improved my hashkafat ha'olam throughout the year.

Thank you, one and all.

Gmar Chasimah Tova. I hope I fall into the amused me, educated me, and - above all - improved my hashkafat ha'olam throughout the year :)

98

 Sep 24, 2012 at 03:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #68  
ber Says:

and remember you take great responsibility by mocking gedolei hador see brochos 19a top

First off, no one is mocking anyone.

Second- While you might think he is the Gador Hador; which you ofcourse are entitled too, I disagree. I never heard of Rav Chaim Kanievsky nor any of his Psaks besides what I read on here and YWN. So while no one is arguing his torah education and level of learning, I do not need to fall in line with your mehalech that every Rosh Yeshiva automatically equates to a Gadol Hadoer. And just because he poskins that one must burn his Iphone, YOU must follow him as being is talmud. I, on the other hand, do not and is more than willing to accept yours and everyone elses Iphone before Yom Kippur.

99

 Sep 24, 2012 at 05:02 PM UseYourHead Says:

I can only imagine what he'd say about the Amazon KINDLE!

100

 Sep 24, 2012 at 05:16 PM Benny Says:

Reply to #80  
Asking Says:

"I am very strongly desagree with you how to talk about our gdoilim"

Why? Haven't "our gdoilim" got sufficient moral strength to survive comments and criticism?

If they have not, or if they can not, then they have no right to the description; they are just human beings like the rest of us, no more.

And when THAT happens, all the magic and the majesty dissolve surrounding and given to those "gdoilim" disappears - rather like the story of the emperor and his new clothes.

Who are we to question our gdoilim?
If rishoinim kmalochim (if you look at previous dor as malocim - than) anachnu k'bney Odom (than we are are people), if rishoinim k'bney odom (but if you think that they are regular people, than) anachnu k'chamorim...

101

 Sep 24, 2012 at 06:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #92  
ShmuelG Says:

Why would anybody need a smart phone just to make phone calls?

Because its not always convenient to open up your tablet or notebook computer or wait till you get back to your desktop to make or change flight reservations, book a hotel room, transfer money to your yinglach at college, check on the weather for the first night of succos, or do one of a gazillion things you cannot do on a dumphone!!

102

 Sep 24, 2012 at 06:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #93  
Yipyap Says:

I didnt say the steipler was engaged in it. i said i saw my son watching mixed dancing. you jump to conclusions

Wrong...there are several old films of the Steipler dancing at chassanahs from the 1960s that have been converted to videos and posted on utube. And there is nothing wrong with doing so at a simcha.

103

 Sep 24, 2012 at 06:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #100  
Benny Says:

Who are we to question our gdoilim?
If rishoinim kmalochim (if you look at previous dor as malocim - than) anachnu k'bney Odom (than we are are people), if rishoinim k'bney odom (but if you think that they are regular people, than) anachnu k'chamorim...

If we could be 100 percent confident that everything attributed to "our gdolim" was accurately quoted, perhaps you might have a point. But in an age where many of these elderly rabbonim have a bunch of sons, son-in-laws, gaaboim etc. who claim to speak on their behalf, we should always challenge and question when the kol korehs, takanahs, psaks are as silly as this one. More often than not, the statements are ultimately denied or claim to be misquoted.

104

 Sep 24, 2012 at 07:08 PM ber Says:

Reply to #98  
Anonymous Says:

First off, no one is mocking anyone.

Second- While you might think he is the Gador Hador; which you ofcourse are entitled too, I disagree. I never heard of Rav Chaim Kanievsky nor any of his Psaks besides what I read on here and YWN. So while no one is arguing his torah education and level of learning, I do not need to fall in line with your mehalech that every Rosh Yeshiva automatically equates to a Gadol Hadoer. And just because he poskins that one must burn his Iphone, YOU must follow him as being is talmud. I, on the other hand, do not and is more than willing to accept yours and everyone elses Iphone before Yom Kippur.

i said 'from' not THE'.anyway tell us who you consider gedolei hador. name 3-4 so we have idea where you come from, not that i dont know.... 'mibirkosof shel adam i listed some that we consider gedoile hador in post #81 so you know where we come from . by the way from your post we see you have no idea what constitues 'gedoile hador'

105

 Sep 24, 2012 at 07:30 PM ber Says:

Reply to #100  
Benny Says:

Who are we to question our gdoilim?
If rishoinim kmalochim (if you look at previous dor as malocim - than) anachnu k'bney Odom (than we are are people), if rishoinim k'bney odom (but if you think that they are regular people, than) anachnu k'chamorim...

they dont consider our gedolim thier gedolim (post 81)

106

 Sep 24, 2012 at 08:25 PM eschwartz Says:

Reply to #79  
Josh38 Says:

Actually, there IS another solution. It's called self-control. As in, use your iPhone to call you wife, your family, your friends. Don't use your iPhone to surf porn sites.

It's clear many (most?) people don't have self control.

Either way, best to make sure, which is why filters must be used. It's not unreasonable either - filters just make sure you can't access porn even if you want to. Unless you're saying you need to have the ABILITY to watch porn so you can prove you have self-control, in which case, who are you trying to prove yourself to?

Certainly, there are many filters out there, MADE BY RELIGIOUS FANATICS who have no sense of proportion and just want to block everything except maybe yeshivaworld and dictionary.com, which cost a lot of money. Or use the free goyish filters which are very good at blocking pritzus as long as you check the box for porn on the filter list.

On a different note, not as a response to Josh, why are so many people writing their posts in hebrew/yiddish? Are they trying to prove they are more qualified in religion? Because most of them seem to be from the fringe group who are hating on technology... by typing rude comments about technology into a box chock full of technology...
I hate holier-than-thou people, there is absolutely nothing holy about them. They are all just haters and should stop using internet. NOW

107

 Sep 24, 2012 at 08:38 PM eschwartz Says:

Reply to #81  
ber Says:

listen here young man , you and your like minded friends have nothing to fret. your kind of 'gedolim' dr rabinner, cenrtists rabbis, rabbi professors, rabbi dr professor rabbi professor dr etc etc they have no problem your having ipod, youpod, blackberrys, bluberries (sour cream too?), tv and all klei mashchis that are metamai the guf and neshomo and who.mock mihagay yisroal midor dor etc etc So whats your and your cronies problem? We will stick to our holy gedolei yisroel, you know those primitive ghetto backward rebbes as some of your cronies describe them , who wernt tainted with torah 'umadda' only the maddah of the holy torah,' hafoch bo vehafoch bo dekilo bo' and have the yiras shomayim to be mechavin shmatai alibe dhilchse' vhureich beyiras hasem' like the kehilos yackov, chazon ish, vayoel moshe, minchaus yitzchok, igros moshe, mishnas aharon... boirom neilech umipihem unu chayim and you stick to your dr rabbinne professos centrist 'rah-bonim' and every thing will be fine and dandy

Please stop using the computer and internet. It is metamai the guf and neshomo, and I am concerned for the state of your neshama.

You are not expected to respond. After all, you are not going to be using the internet any more.
By the way, what is wrong with being a doctor and a rabbi? The Ramban was both.

By the way, what is this "youpod" and where can I get one? :)

108

 Sep 24, 2012 at 08:39 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #101  
Anonymous Says:

Because its not always convenient to open up your tablet or notebook computer or wait till you get back to your desktop to make or change flight reservations, book a hotel room, transfer money to your yinglach at college, check on the weather for the first night of succos, or do one of a gazillion things you cannot do on a dumphone!!

Fair enough. And, in addition to all those great things, a smart phone could teach you to read, you would realize that I was merely responding to Josh38's remark #79: "use your iPhone to call you wife, your family, your friends. Don't use your iPhone to surf porn sites.” Get it?

109

 Sep 24, 2012 at 11:03 PM Who are you? Says:

Reply to #100  
Benny Says:

Who are we to question our gdoilim?
If rishoinim kmalochim (if you look at previous dor as malocim - than) anachnu k'bney Odom (than we are are people), if rishoinim k'bney odom (but if you think that they are regular people, than) anachnu k'chamorim...

Benny,
Who are "you" to decide who is and who isn't a Godol?

How many Blat Gemara do I need to learn before I too am called "godol" or does it matter how long or what color (white? or black) my beard is?

Or does it depend on how many students I have?

Everybody has their own version of whom they consider Godol and whom not and whose Psak they follow and whos "NOT".

My Godol says Iphones are perfectly fine and just as fine as this internet site which you are using now to read this.

110

 Sep 25, 2012 at 12:23 AM eschwartz Says:

Reply to #109  
Who are you? Says:

Benny,
Who are "you" to decide who is and who isn't a Godol?

How many Blat Gemara do I need to learn before I too am called "godol" or does it matter how long or what color (white? or black) my beard is?

Or does it depend on how many students I have?

Everybody has their own version of whom they consider Godol and whom not and whose Psak they follow and whos "NOT".

My Godol says Iphones are perfectly fine and just as fine as this internet site which you are using now to read this.

There's a difference between a site and a web client. This site, run by frum Jews, is considerably clean and safe, etc. Iphones are not. Not because they are the work of the Satan and all that nonsense, but because they are just as bad as your browser, which can access any site you ask it to, and must therefore be protected by one of the many FREE web filters out there. (I recommend openDNS. Ironically, the best filters were all created by goyim who are more interested in protecting their kids than Jews are, it would seem.)
This is a perfectly reasonable and SANE way to deal with the very real problem of peoples' taivos, and is so obviously necessary that even the goyim agree.

But I really don't care what the Gedolim said about the matter because they DIDN'T say anything about the matter. It is pretty easy to figure out who the most respected Gedolim are, but it is also common sense that they wouldn't really say anything this stupid, unless someone misrepresented the case to them.

The real issue here is, yes, we listen to the Gedolim, but first we wait for a reputable source to confirm what they said. And right-wing fanatics are not a reputable source, unless you too are one.

111

 Sep 25, 2012 at 01:13 AM Benny Says:

To # 109 It's not "me" who chooses a Godol, it's when you have a lot of iden, shomrey Torah and mitzvos, recognize someone is very special in avoidas aBoire

112

 Sep 25, 2012 at 01:39 AM ber Says:

Reply to #106  
eschwartz Says:

It's clear many (most?) people don't have self control.

Either way, best to make sure, which is why filters must be used. It's not unreasonable either - filters just make sure you can't access porn even if you want to. Unless you're saying you need to have the ABILITY to watch porn so you can prove you have self-control, in which case, who are you trying to prove yourself to?

Certainly, there are many filters out there, MADE BY RELIGIOUS FANATICS who have no sense of proportion and just want to block everything except maybe yeshivaworld and dictionary.com, which cost a lot of money. Or use the free goyish filters which are very good at blocking pritzus as long as you check the box for porn on the filter list.

On a different note, not as a response to Josh, why are so many people writing their posts in hebrew/yiddish? Are they trying to prove they are more qualified in religion? Because most of them seem to be from the fringe group who are hating on technology... by typing rude comments about technology into a box chock full of technology...
I hate holier-than-thou people, there is absolutely nothing holy about them. They are all just haters and should stop using internet. NOW

we couldnt care less who you hate. by the way what is a christiain doing here (holier than thou). this remark gives a away where you come from no wonder you hate 'holier than thou.you will not hear such remarks from ehriceher yidden. please dont excuse my hebrew english/ yiddisg

113

 Sep 25, 2012 at 07:48 AM ber Says:

Reply to #107  
eschwartz Says:

Please stop using the computer and internet. It is metamai the guf and neshomo, and I am concerned for the state of your neshama.

You are not expected to respond. After all, you are not going to be using the internet any more.
By the way, what is wrong with being a doctor and a rabbi? The Ramban was both.

By the way, what is this "youpod" and where can I get one? :)

by the way what is wrong to have bachlors, drs degree. You have guilty? concience who said anything wrong

114

 Sep 25, 2012 at 08:31 AM Yipyap Says:

Reply to #102  
Anonymous Says:

Wrong...there are several old films of the Steipler dancing at chassanahs from the 1960s that have been converted to videos and posted on utube. And there is nothing wrong with doing so at a simcha.

Why am I wrong? I dont care if there is video of him dancing in the 60's. I just said I took my sons iphone away because he was watching mixed dancing. Who said anything about the steipler dancing?

115

 Sep 25, 2012 at 09:16 AM ber Says:

Reply to #111  
Benny Says:

To # 109 It's not "me" who chooses a Godol, it's when you have a lot of iden, shomrey Torah and mitzvos, recognize someone is very special in avoidas aBoire

'sefasyim yishag mayshuv devorim nechonim' dont see why these non believers comment on shomer torah site. i dont read comment on christian, reform even
MO site

116

 Sep 25, 2012 at 05:26 PM eschwartz Says:

Reply to #112  
ber Says:

we couldnt care less who you hate. by the way what is a christiain doing here (holier than thou). this remark gives a away where you come from no wonder you hate 'holier than thou.you will not hear such remarks from ehriceher yidden. please dont excuse my hebrew english/ yiddisg

I come from a Chofetz Chaim Yeshiva (I know lots of people think that makes me a Christian, but it's OK I don't really care. I am confident in what I am.) and the Christians do not have a monopoly on the English language. "holier-than-thou" is a commonly used religious trope that has nothing specifically to do with Christianity.

May the Ribono Shel Olam forgive me for the aveira of being literate (especially right before Yom Kippur.)

117

 Sep 25, 2012 at 05:28 PM eschwartz Says:

Reply to #113  
ber Says:

by the way what is wrong to have bachlors, drs degree. You have guilty? concience who said anything wrong

the person who I quoted was going on a rant about all those "modern rabbis with their drs degrees etc." who just allow everything. I was engaging in a little irony.

118

 Sep 26, 2012 at 09:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #116  
eschwartz Says:

I come from a Chofetz Chaim Yeshiva (I know lots of people think that makes me a Christian, but it's OK I don't really care. I am confident in what I am.) and the Christians do not have a monopoly on the English language. "holier-than-thou" is a commonly used religious trope that has nothing specifically to do with Christianity.

May the Ribono Shel Olam forgive me for the aveira of being literate (especially right before Yom Kippur.)

i have not heard such comment fron any bnei torah litvish sfardeisg chassidish ashkenazish..only fron people tainted with assimm

119

 Sep 27, 2012 at 09:18 AM ber Says:

Reply to #109  
Who are you? Says:

Benny,
Who are "you" to decide who is and who isn't a Godol?

How many Blat Gemara do I need to learn before I too am called "godol" or does it matter how long or what color (white? or black) my beard is?

Or does it depend on how many students I have?

Everybody has their own version of whom they consider Godol and whom not and whose Psak they follow and whos "NOT".

My Godol says Iphones are perfectly fine and just as fine as this internet site which you are using now to read this.

who is your godal, joffin of hebrew theol seminary etc? our kind of godal is see # 81. why are you embaressed to post?

120

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