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Brooklyn, NY - New Scheme to Beat Parking Tickets Has Drivers Sharing Muni-Meter Receipts

Published on: November 13, 2012 09:43 PM
By: VIN News Staff
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receipts in a box found at BP lumber in Borough Parkreceipts in a box found at BP lumber in Borough Park

Brooklyn, NY - Drivers in New York City have come up with a new scheme to try to avoid paying their parking tickets – collecting and sharing used Muni-Meter receipts.

The scam has motorists with outstanding parking violations rummaging through a box of receipts until they find one with a date and time corresponding to those on their tickets. In an effort to defraud the City, drivers then fraudulently allege that they did, in fact, purchase a Muni-Meter receipt, and submit the receipt as evidence to counter their parking summons. Receipts displaying remaining time are also among those being distributed.

The Daily News reports (http://nydn.us/THMn3E) that one such box of receipts was discovered at the Boro Park Lumber & Home Center at 4601 New Utrecht Avenue. But the store manager insisted the box, labeled “gemach” or “free loan”, was not an internal initiative. “Somebody outside the store did it. We are not involved in it,” he said.

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One store employee said visitors come to the store regularly seeking receipts. “People come in here all the time to check it out,” he said.

A total of 9,012,854 parking tickets were issued in fiscal year 2012, bringing in $513 million in fines into City coffers. “No one can dispute the fact that our city is ticket-happy,” remarked Councilman James Vacca (D-Bronx) who chairs the Transportation Committee. “But fraudulently helping people fight tickets when they are actually guilty is over the top.”

The Departments of Finance and Transportation declined to comment.


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Read Comments (61)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Nov 13, 2012 at 09:50 PM amerikaner Says:

so is there anything wrong with that? mike has enough billions already

2

 Nov 13, 2012 at 09:58 PM Seicheldig Says:

The city WANTS to issue tickets as a revenue booster, obviously. If it was about traffic flow or other civic good, they would let you add time on your meter via cell phone apps instead of catching you.

This news story is a chillul Hashem, as it deepens the "cheap Jews" steriotypes. On the other hand, don't kid yourself that people who have "just gotten a parking ticket", don't try to look at nearby cars with the "right ticket", hanging around until the driver returns and no longer needs the ticket that will be tossed out (unless the driver collects these as receipts for work expenses...)

3

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:04 PM ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

4

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:11 PM british Says:

in UK you are required to enter your license plate when getting your muni meter receipt.

5

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:13 PM sylmoss Says:

When meter people stand waiting for the second they can 'finally' ticket a car - often, while the owner is approaching, huffing and puffing this behavior is not so unfounded.
It's a "gotcha" city and it simply evokes a "gotcha back" attitude.
A year ago I forgot where I parked my car, it was in a busy area so I clicked the clicker over and over until I finally found the car.
As I approached I saw the meter person writing my ticket. He heard the short beeps and saw the lights flicker .. He did not have to ticket me cause it was obvious I was approaching - but with "gotcha" training he could care less - I don't blame people for trying to avoid being robbed. I watched a car get a double parking summons while I was vacating a spot that he was glad to find. It was unbelievable!!! He absolutely was not double parking - while driving down the Avenue he noticed me getting into the drivers side and pulled up alongside my car happy to have found a legal spot and what did he get a "double park ticket"!!! Why expect citizens to give a darn about a city that eats their hard earned bucks. New York is not a kind city --- It is ticket city!!!!

6

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:19 PM monalisa Says:

How about if you leave before the time is up, you give your ticket to the next person who takes your spot? That is a nice thing to do.

7

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Look. Every munimeter has a number/address. when he/she tries to fight the ticket with his/her gemach receipt all the judge (?) needs to do is ask the ticket holder "which meter did you use"?
The meter may be twomiles down the road

8

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:32 PM eigner Says:

Reply to number 1.

Yes, there's EVERYTHING wrong with this!
It's a tremendous chilul Hashem. And against the law. Dine demalchuse dine

9

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:23 PM UseYourHead Says:

This is Chillul Hashem of the highest order, and is the diametric opposite of Yashrus - if not outright geneivah. Just this past Shabbos we read the Torah's detailed description of how Avraham interacted with Efron when negotiating the purchase of a burial plot for Sarah. Avraham bent over backwards to be sure that Efron got not a penny less than he wanted for the field, even though Avraham could certainly have "done better for himself". Because Avraham saw himself as a representative of Hashem, and acted accordingly. Do you think Avraham - the pillar of Chessed - would approve of such a "Gemach"?! Feh! Woe unto Avraham's progeny that they have fallen so far.

10

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:35 PM OyGevald Says:

I even bought one from a the car's driver in front of me when I got a ticket. That driver was happy to get $5.00 for the the now expired meter receipt but which was valid at the time my ticket was issued.
These ideas can be found online at several sites to "survive parking in NYC".

11

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:40 PM DOT Says:

" in a new scam to help scofflaws trick the cash-strapped city." (Daily News)

Oh, like all the ticketing blitzes this city provides is so kosher, there are hundreds of NY citizens who just get slapped with all kinds of fines, whether guilty or not, they don't have the time or money to fight it, they just pay it, and Bloomy just rakes in millions a day. And the Traffic Cop is pretty much aware of that fact, all they are concerned is filling in their quotes!

Ticketing have simply become part of a revenue NOT to discourage traffic violations.

Towing someone's vehicle for just 2 fines and late fees are neither nothing short of a "scam". Yes, if its the "city" committing it then its all fine, but the average hard working citizen has to be tormented by the DOT.

*just wondering* who was the Chacom to go publicize this story to the press, and who's this Reuven Blau?

12

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:41 PM UseYourHead Says:

Reply to #3  
ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

The only rats are the "frum" Jews who cheat, connive, and defraud - and think nothing of it. Let justice be served.

13

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Hopefully, the owners of this store will find themselves with some heavy duty litigation expenses defending their knowingly aiding this type of fraud. Everyone gets parking tickets from time to time and 99 percent of us pay those tickets. We also seem to end up paying for the one percent who always seem to be looking to scam the system. Making an example of the owners of the BP Lumber Store will at least make other business owners think twice about either directly or indirectly encouraging such fraud.

14

 Nov 13, 2012 at 10:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

Me thinks you exaterate.

15

 Nov 13, 2012 at 11:01 PM apdsvys Says:

I'm not addressing the act of one using a reciept from this 'gemach' to contest a ticket.

I'm talking about the mere fact of having such a 'gemach' box and people coming to deposit used reciepts and others coming in and taking out a reciept.
what exactly is illegal about that?
Is there a law that says that a used muni reciept is muktzeh?

16

 Nov 13, 2012 at 11:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

And if you did something wrong you should be able to get off without even a slap on the wrist?

17

 Nov 13, 2012 at 11:09 PM Anonymous Says:

government has been squeezing us for every penny they can. people are trying to hold onto what they can. the muni meter was installed in part so that no money can be added without losing the time you still might have. as long as you have the "law" behind you its okay.
I just hate that this story is made public.

18

 Nov 13, 2012 at 11:16 PM DovidTheK Says:

There is another scam, but this one is totally legal from what I have heard. You find a meter in a neighborhood outside of Manhattan where you can park for many hours for acheaper price, you pay the meter there and get the receipt, then you drive to Manhattan and use the remaining time on the receipt to park in Manhattan even if it is only an hour max meter you can still get as many hours as it says on the receipt.

19

 Nov 13, 2012 at 11:18 PM sambayon Says:

Reply to #8  
eigner Says:

Reply to number 1.

Yes, there's EVERYTHING wrong with this!
It's a tremendous chilul Hashem. And against the law. Dine demalchuse dine

Here is a self righteous Dina d'malchisa dina man until it hits his pocket.

20

 Nov 13, 2012 at 11:19 PM Wise-Guy Says:

I'm not condoning this fraud, but just to be clear I want to mention that over the years I have received numerous parking-tickets. Some I truly deserved, but some were outrageously unfair.
(i.e. I once blocked a neighbor's driveway with permission, and got a ticket.
This neighbor wrote an affidavit on my behalf that I parked there with his consent and he supplied his owner's water bill as proof that it's his property.
I then appealed the ticket and sent the documents as evidence. The verdict was "Guilty ... insufficient evidence"!
To further appeal I would have to kill at least half a day (during business hours) by going to court.)

I don't know what the Halachah is, but from a personal point-of-view I don't feel too guilty if I can "steal" back some of my own "stolen" money...

21

 Nov 13, 2012 at 11:59 PM shredready Says:

Reply to #12  
UseYourHead Says:

The only rats are the "frum" Jews who cheat, connive, and defraud - and think nothing of it. Let justice be served.

to bad not too many frum yiddin think like you, they think cheating is ok course of action

22

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:05 AM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #3  
ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

nebach,nebach, I wish you were wrong in your statement. Unfortunately,youre right. Another place to watch out for is the Chase bank on 13 and 49 st.
someone once said,that there are undercover operatives there.
ve hamven yuvin.

23

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:18 AM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #5  
sylmoss Says:

When meter people stand waiting for the second they can 'finally' ticket a car - often, while the owner is approaching, huffing and puffing this behavior is not so unfounded.
It's a "gotcha" city and it simply evokes a "gotcha back" attitude.
A year ago I forgot where I parked my car, it was in a busy area so I clicked the clicker over and over until I finally found the car.
As I approached I saw the meter person writing my ticket. He heard the short beeps and saw the lights flicker .. He did not have to ticket me cause it was obvious I was approaching - but with "gotcha" training he could care less - I don't blame people for trying to avoid being robbed. I watched a car get a double parking summons while I was vacating a spot that he was glad to find. It was unbelievable!!! He absolutely was not double parking - while driving down the Avenue he noticed me getting into the drivers side and pulled up alongside my car happy to have found a legal spot and what did he get a "double park ticket"!!! Why expect citizens to give a darn about a city that eats their hard earned bucks. New York is not a kind city --- It is ticket city!!!!

Same thing happened to me on 13 and 47 st. Pulled into bus stop to drop off my wife which by the way is legal,but it has to be immediate. As she got out of the car,i saw in my side view mirror the chaya RACING not driving RACING towards me from 47 st, as i started pulling away from the curb,THE CHAYA BLOCKS ME WITH HIS CAR AND HE ALMOST COLLIDED WITH ME AS I WAS PULLING OUT,
He trapped me between his car and the curb. luckily, I was able to back up about 10 feet since i was at the corner,and i went around the CHAYA.
If this isnt entrappment,then I dony know what is!
And then they tell you if you move the car NOT WHILE TICKETING YOU< BUT AS THEY PULL UP TO YOUR SPOT AS YOURE ATTEMPTING TO MOVE YOUR VEHICLE IF YOU MOVE YOU WILL GET A $ 350 TICKET.
What,I have to sit there while he walks over to me ( from 25 feet away) ,and wait for him to issue me a summons?
I have to be a sitting duck? HELL NO.
If you tag me,that's fine, but TO WAIT for him to walk over and issue the summons? NO WAY>
I have a right to defend myself. I am not breaking any laws by moving my car if i see him approaching.
He is breaking the law,while viciously seeking to ticket ANYONE AND ANYTHING.

24

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:28 AM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #8  
eigner Says:

Reply to number 1.

Yes, there's EVERYTHING wrong with this!
It's a tremendous chilul Hashem. And against the law. Dine demalchuse dine

Dina DMalchusa is ONLY when the MALCHUS upholds it's own laws in an honest fashion.
If the govt is corrupt in it's ways and in the ticket scandal scene here in NYC is definitely not in the least bit honest, then, dina D'ina D' malchusa, does not apply. go look up the dinim.
8 years ago, I received $ 800 in fines from a dirty cop who put me parked all over Brooklyn. including 1 ticket on a shabbos morning in Coney Island at 6 am.
it was in the old days,when the had the blue and white " default Judgement" papers,
I never received the tickets,only the judgements, came in the mail .
He must have written out the tickets and threw them away. I got the copies of the dirty tickets,and i was shocked that a cop can go so far.
I called Internal Affairs,and they just gave me the run around. Calling them is like having the lion guard the sheep. lol.

25

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:32 AM sechelyoshor Says:

For all of you who are justifying this behavior, is lying muttar? Why is this not considered gezel akum? If you tell the city you bought the tickey, you are a liar. Is there any place in shulchan aruch that allows you to lie to get off paying a fine?

26

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:35 AM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #9  
UseYourHead Says:

This is Chillul Hashem of the highest order, and is the diametric opposite of Yashrus - if not outright geneivah. Just this past Shabbos we read the Torah's detailed description of how Avraham interacted with Efron when negotiating the purchase of a burial plot for Sarah. Avraham bent over backwards to be sure that Efron got not a penny less than he wanted for the field, even though Avraham could certainly have "done better for himself". Because Avraham saw himself as a representative of Hashem, and acted accordingly. Do you think Avraham - the pillar of Chessed - would approve of such a "Gemach"?! Feh! Woe unto Avraham's progeny that they have fallen so far.

Grrr. You make me so angry. read my blog. Of course in business WITH ANYONE we have to be honest.
but look at next weeks sedra. When Yaakov cheated Lavan with the sheep.
"IM EEEKASH TIS PATOL" that means as the gemorrah says, "When dealing with a crooked person,you are ALLOWED to act crooked to defend yourself"
you wanna tell me that ticket agents, and the whole system is HONEST?
btw. How many people in traffic court, WITHOUT A LAWYER win their case?
would it be safe to say 10% ? probably less.
Try to figure out why!
Ask, any lawyer.
you sound sooo pathetic.

27

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:37 AM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Hopefully, the owners of this store will find themselves with some heavy duty litigation expenses defending their knowingly aiding this type of fraud. Everyone gets parking tickets from time to time and 99 percent of us pay those tickets. We also seem to end up paying for the one percent who always seem to be looking to scam the system. Making an example of the owners of the BP Lumber Store will at least make other business owners think twice about either directly or indirectly encouraging such fraud.

More power to them!

28

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:40 AM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Hopefully, the owners of this store will find themselves with some heavy duty litigation expenses defending their knowingly aiding this type of fraud. Everyone gets parking tickets from time to time and 99 percent of us pay those tickets. We also seem to end up paying for the one percent who always seem to be looking to scam the system. Making an example of the owners of the BP Lumber Store will at least make other business owners think twice about either directly or indirectly encouraging such fraud.

Why the negative comment? why? because in the course of a few years the price of parking went from 25 cents an HOUR to 25 cents for 15 minutes? just like in manhattan? ( I know its 25 per 10 minutes there)
This is YASHRUS? RAPING THE PEOPLE?

29

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:41 AM M1 Says:

U know how we just dump the used ones on the street well let bp lumber say he's keeping the block tidy (so he don't get a garbage tix!)by asking ppl to drop in box rather then on street

30

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:55 AM A Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

Look. Every munimeter has a number/address. when he/she tries to fight the ticket with his/her gemach receipt all the judge (?) needs to do is ask the ticket holder "which meter did you use"?
The meter may be twomiles down the road

If you pay a munimeter and don't use up the time you can legally use that receipt in another parking spot. Unfortunately some judges don't know or care and will say you're guilty anyway should you fight the ticket.

31

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
schwartzi Says:

Why the negative comment? why? because in the course of a few years the price of parking went from 25 cents an HOUR to 25 cents for 15 minutes? just like in manhattan? ( I know its 25 per 10 minutes there)
This is YASHRUS? RAPING THE PEOPLE?

Even if it was $10 for 15 minutes, thats the law and you either pay the meter price or don't park. Its very simple. You don't get to set the meter rates....Bloomberg does. Perhaps consider selling your car if you cannot afford to park it.

32

 Nov 14, 2012 at 01:37 AM sylmoss Says:

Reply to #24  
schwartzi Says:

Dina DMalchusa is ONLY when the MALCHUS upholds it's own laws in an honest fashion.
If the govt is corrupt in it's ways and in the ticket scandal scene here in NYC is definitely not in the least bit honest, then, dina D'ina D' malchusa, does not apply. go look up the dinim.
8 years ago, I received $ 800 in fines from a dirty cop who put me parked all over Brooklyn. including 1 ticket on a shabbos morning in Coney Island at 6 am.
it was in the old days,when the had the blue and white " default Judgement" papers,
I never received the tickets,only the judgements, came in the mail .
He must have written out the tickets and threw them away. I got the copies of the dirty tickets,and i was shocked that a cop can go so far.
I called Internal Affairs,and they just gave me the run around. Calling them is like having the lion guard the sheep. lol.

Everyone is a big 'tzaddik' until it hits them. You are correct this is not a "kosher" system and therefore D'ina D' malchusa is not applicable here. This is a corrupt system run by a very wealthy and very corrupt oysvarf. He tripled his fortune while mayor and ran a 3rd term? How is it that he tripled his fortune??? and how is it that he ran a third term?? So what 'malchusa' are we talking about exactly?
Summonses / tickets have more than doubled in some instances!!
I know I am ungrateful and should do tshuva, after all he no longer allows large sugar drinks to be sold and more importantly he forbids feeding cholent to the homeless.. No need to remind everyone about his tampering with halacha / metzitza issue.
He is probably family with Rudy Kastner.

33

 Nov 14, 2012 at 02:21 AM MBD358 Says:

עם נבר תתברר ועם עקש תתפתל

34

 Nov 14, 2012 at 04:12 AM Brooklynhocker Says:

The city adopted the muni meters to counter all the broken meter claims. It does two things 1- it was legal to park at a broken meter for an hour. 2- you can't say the meter was broken or fast because it says exactly what time it started and when it ran out. That means the city gets paid for every minute someone is parked there, and it takes less people to maintain and repair their meters. In turn the city now hired an additional 1,000 meter maids to collect on their investment.

35

 Nov 14, 2012 at 04:53 AM Pimpernuter Says:

Reply to #25  
sechelyoshor Says:

For all of you who are justifying this behavior, is lying muttar? Why is this not considered gezel akum? If you tell the city you bought the tickey, you are a liar. Is there any place in shulchan aruch that allows you to lie to get off paying a fine?

Gezel Akum? Hello?
Imagine someone is doing a robbery on you, and you defend yourself. Is this GEZEL AKUM? Please use your brain! We're just defending ourselves from these crooks!

All these people who defend this crook system must be very rich, and out of touch with us poor people who can't afford to pay half of out wages for a ticket or 2. Same like disgraced Blumberg, who only cares for his own pocket, and have no clue what HELL us poor citizens are going thru under his "dictat-ship". I wish him to lose all his billions and struggle as well to pay his parking fines. AMEN.

36

 Nov 14, 2012 at 05:37 AM savta Says:

Has anyone else noticed that the number of muni meters installed are located primarily in frum neighborhoods?

37

 Nov 14, 2012 at 05:59 AM elliot770 Says:

The city rips people off with the ticket craze.All those posting dina dmalchsa how aboutthe nazis would you say dina dmalchusa then? Mike is a big jewish anti semite how about his coment about the blasck hat crowd and meziza.

38

 Nov 14, 2012 at 06:15 AM PashutehYid Says:

Reply to #3  
ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

What kind of paranoia is that? And what do we have to hide? The vast majority of us are honest, knd, upstanding citizens. And the remainder deserves to face the consequences.

39

 Nov 14, 2012 at 07:38 AM Brooklynhocker Says:

The city adopted the muni meters to counter all the broken meter claims. It does two things 1- it was legal to park at a broken meter for an hour. 2- you can't say the meter was broken or fast because it says exactly what time it started and when it ran out. That means the city gets paid for every minute someone is parked there, and it takes less people to maintain and repair their meters. In turn the city now hired an additional 1,000 meter maids to collect on their investment.

40

 Nov 14, 2012 at 07:43 AM Reb Yid Says:

How is this any different from parking at a meter where there's still time left?

Also, to everyone who's crying dina d'malchusa--there's an adage in American legal philosophy, "innocent until proven guilty." I think that should apply at least as much to our fellow yidden as to the average yahoo on the street.

41

 Nov 14, 2012 at 08:59 AM RAPHAELLIFE1 Says:

when will u all wake up ??? will it take when the blummy will fine u $10,000 ??? stop with the dina d'malchusa...

42

 Nov 14, 2012 at 09:03 AM Anonymous Says:

I am embarrased. This is outright fraud and must stop.

43

 Nov 14, 2012 at 09:06 AM sechelyoshor Says:

Reply to #40  
Reb Yid Says:

How is this any different from parking at a meter where there's still time left?

Also, to everyone who's crying dina d'malchusa--there's an adage in American legal philosophy, "innocent until proven guilty." I think that should apply at least as much to our fellow yidden as to the average yahoo on the street.

No, you are not innocent when lying is involved. Quite amazing how people will justify this behavior. To compare meters to Nazi law is ridiculous.

I suppose double parking should also be muttar too! I've been stuck in my car for 10 or 15 minutes waiting to leave my spot on an erev shabbos in Boro Park. People, "ehlicher, heimshe Yidden", look at you like you have no right to say anything after they've messed you over for 15 minutes. Then they complain when they get a ticket from the Nazi policemen for their behavior! Amazing.

44

 Nov 14, 2012 at 09:09 AM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

Makes me very proud to see all these frum yidelin defending this practice. You broke the law, got a ticket and now using fraudulent documents to try to get out of it. Wait, why dont you do the same thing with your religious life? Forget to daven shachris? no problem, get your friends tefilin, plan your fingerprints on it and on yom kippur, show hashem that in fact you put tefillin on that day?

45

 Nov 14, 2012 at 09:29 AM clear-thinker Says:

Lets see if I have it right. It is wrong that the police put mini meters in frum neighborhoods. I want to be treated with respect by the chayas who give tickets. It is an anti semitic act to give me a ticket, wait if that chaya gives me a ticket he is a nazi. I have the right to double park without getting a ticket. If it is Friday and I am double parked in and can't get out and Shabbos is on the way where are the cops?
If I am charged with a real crime, it is the fault of the frum person who cooperates with the police since .....

46

 Nov 14, 2012 at 09:34 AM cent_cent Says:

I am not getting into the legality of such actions, or the Chillul Hashem aspect. However, I would say that anyone who does not live in NY cannot make any comments on this matter. People not in NYC don't understand the mentality of the tickets. Living outside of NYC you might get one parking ticket every five years, so yeah this would look really bad. But come to NY and see the meter maids hiding around the corners waiting until people walk away from their car for a second and then run in and scan. Even if you are a couple feet away, and you see them coming, once they scan they say - too late, I already scanned. Or how about the traffic police who wait in their cars right on the block where alternate side is about to begin and the second it starts race over and give a ticket. Or maybe the ones who walk down the blocks at night and check every single registration/inspection and give tickets (these happen all the time, every single day).
Again, I am not validating this or making comments about its legality/halachic status, but unless you live in NY and understand the culture here, you have no basis to make comments about this. Come here for a few years and then see if feel the same

47

 Nov 14, 2012 at 09:34 AM Aryeh Says:

Half a billion!?

48

 Nov 14, 2012 at 10:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Seicheldig Says:

The city WANTS to issue tickets as a revenue booster, obviously. If it was about traffic flow or other civic good, they would let you add time on your meter via cell phone apps instead of catching you.

This news story is a chillul Hashem, as it deepens the "cheap Jews" steriotypes. On the other hand, don't kid yourself that people who have "just gotten a parking ticket", don't try to look at nearby cars with the "right ticket", hanging around until the driver returns and no longer needs the ticket that will be tossed out (unless the driver collects these as receipts for work expenses...)

So the easy solution to not appearing as "cheap Jews" is just don't do it and abide by the regulations. Oh I forgot Jews in Willy & BP are exempt from those or they just feel they are!

49

 Nov 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM RalphWaldoEmerson Says:

Reply to #4  
british Says:

in UK you are required to enter your license plate when getting your muni meter receipt.

you should also have to provide a fingerprint a strand of hair and undergo a retina scan PLEASE!! it's a parking ticket for heavens sake, not a plot to kill the president!!

50

 Nov 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM trachtgut2 Says:

Reply to #4  
british Says:

in UK you are required to enter your license plate when getting your muni meter receipt.

British, please don't give bloomerg any good ideas! We r fine this way! Thanks.

51

 Nov 14, 2012 at 11:37 AM Mayer Says:

Guys chill out and look at the hard facts. Putting money in a meter allows you to park until a certain time. After that time, be it one minute or ten minutes, you have no right to park for free and if you do you can expect a ticket. Using someone elses ticket is a criminal offence. If you don't like the parking regulations or the fraud statutes try and get them changed but don't pretend black is white. And just one other thought: if after 120 you tell the melochim, hey guys, all the times you have me down for being mechalel Shabbos, well once it was only two minutes after zman Shabbos, that time it was only seven minutes, what are you guys doing, standing there just waiting to catch me? Is a couple of minutes that important? Be thankful that the Mayor can only issue parking citations.

52

 Nov 14, 2012 at 11:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
cent_cent Says:

I am not getting into the legality of such actions, or the Chillul Hashem aspect. However, I would say that anyone who does not live in NY cannot make any comments on this matter. People not in NYC don't understand the mentality of the tickets. Living outside of NYC you might get one parking ticket every five years, so yeah this would look really bad. But come to NY and see the meter maids hiding around the corners waiting until people walk away from their car for a second and then run in and scan. Even if you are a couple feet away, and you see them coming, once they scan they say - too late, I already scanned. Or how about the traffic police who wait in their cars right on the block where alternate side is about to begin and the second it starts race over and give a ticket. Or maybe the ones who walk down the blocks at night and check every single registration/inspection and give tickets (these happen all the time, every single day).
Again, I am not validating this or making comments about its legality/halachic status, but unless you live in NY and understand the culture here, you have no basis to make comments about this. Come here for a few years and then see if feel the same

"Again, I am not validating this or making comments about its legality/halachic status, but unless you live in NY and understand the culture here, you have no basis to make comments about this"

Sorry, but honesty is honesty no matter WHERE you live in this world. This is fraud.

53

 Nov 14, 2012 at 11:48 AM HAPPY12 Says:

Reply to #3  
ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

Very True. A big plague facing our community is mesira. The penal system is full of people who wre 'turned in'.

54

 Nov 14, 2012 at 11:52 AM RebKlemson Says:

I work in the morning hours in boropark and since theres alternate side almost everyday i am forced to run around and feed a meter until i can move back to the street and usually theres no meters or spots available afterward. it makes work impossible. but they will get me the minute my guard is down

55

 Nov 14, 2012 at 11:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
Anonymous Says:

So the easy solution to not appearing as "cheap Jews" is just don't do it and abide by the regulations. Oh I forgot Jews in Willy & BP are exempt from those or they just feel they are!

Are you a self-hating jew? Or do you just hate jews from certain neighborhoods?
Stop with the stereotyping.

56

 Nov 14, 2012 at 12:12 PM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #3  
ChareidiMan Says:

If you ever wondered if our community is full of Government rats, wonder no more! Raboisia, i have mentioned it on VIN before, there are hundreds of frum yingeliet (leider) that work for the government and live for ratting on people and expose frum jews to the government and the media.

You did not hear the last of this story and the Rosenbergs are for sure to get a visit by officials.

You cannot trust anyone but your own shaddow, there are hundreds in our community that work for the government and are constantly wired.

I have a friend that is in the system right now, he was wire tapped by a "good friend"

Hi'zuar V'hishumer

You sound a little paranoid. Even though, the fact that the Daily News reporter knew exactly where to go to find the box with the parking meter receipts is no coincidence, there is no evidence that every other person is wired and ready to entrap innocent people. What (probably) transpired is, that a customer or a disgruntled store employee thought this would make headlines and contacted the media.

57

 Nov 14, 2012 at 01:20 PM Menias Revach is not "Gezel Akum" Says:

Reply to #25  
sechelyoshor Says:

For all of you who are justifying this behavior, is lying muttar? Why is this not considered gezel akum? If you tell the city you bought the tickey, you are a liar. Is there any place in shulchan aruch that allows you to lie to get off paying a fine?

Never mind Hagonev Min Haganov...

Avoiding paying a Parking Ticket is at most, only:

"Menias Revach" and not gezel at all.

The same applies to Taxes too.

The Government has a right to request or demand that someone pay taxes but the government does not "OWN" the cash until it's paid and so avoiding having to pay taxes (as all Bloomberg type Millionaires do every day), is only Menias Revach and is not "Stealing". It's not "theft" according to the law and not according to Torah.

Even according to the secular law, paying taxes is a Hischyvus and avoiding it could be a crime but is not "theft" and is not "stealing".

As for Dina Demalchusa Dina - all the Amaharatzim here are also wrong in this too.

According to Halacha the Taxes and or fines are not owed to a Corrupt Government which Taxes Yidden unfairly, giving Goyim free education (from tax dollars) and denying the same to Frum Yidden who can't use non-kosher public schools system. Halacha says that you must not pay unfair taxes.

Although most Rabbonim will avoid answering it for obvious reasons, but this IS the Halacha.

58

 Nov 14, 2012 at 01:27 PM All Yidden "vinch un" all Mosrim, 3 times per day Says:

Reply to #53  
HAPPY12 Says:

Very True. A big plague facing our community is mesira. The penal system is full of people who wre 'turned in'.

Every frum Yidd is Mispalel that G-d should anhilate all Mosrim.

Every single frum Yid, literally curses Mosrim in Shmone Esre 3 times per day, in Birchas Velamalshinim.

59

 Nov 14, 2012 at 02:02 PM cent_cent Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

"Again, I am not validating this or making comments about its legality/halachic status, but unless you live in NY and understand the culture here, you have no basis to make comments about this"

Sorry, but honesty is honesty no matter WHERE you live in this world. This is fraud.

Incorrect my friend. You don't know how the system works unless you live here. You don't understand the culture. This is a little of an extreme example, but it does illustrate the point. What if I told you that in Germany some Jews hid from the Nazis. Wouldnt that qualify as fraud? The government is telling them to go to the camps. It is not so clear cut as to what is "honest" and what is "fraud". If the government is not being fair, then it is not so clear that you have to follow them.

60

 Nov 14, 2012 at 03:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
cent_cent Says:

Incorrect my friend. You don't know how the system works unless you live here. You don't understand the culture. This is a little of an extreme example, but it does illustrate the point. What if I told you that in Germany some Jews hid from the Nazis. Wouldnt that qualify as fraud? The government is telling them to go to the camps. It is not so clear cut as to what is "honest" and what is "fraud". If the government is not being fair, then it is not so clear that you have to follow them.

"You don't know how the system works unless you live here. You don't understand the culture."

I live there and if I get a ticket, I pay it!!!!! Am I the only law abiding frum who pays a ticket? The whole world is reading this and it's just another one of our schemes to cheat people!

61

 Nov 14, 2012 at 04:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

Are you a self-hating jew? Or do you just hate jews from certain neighborhoods?
Stop with the stereotyping.

Why is it if we are against fraud, we are self hating? Seems like anytime one of us gets caught, we cry antisemitism. Learn the true meaning of the word.

62

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