Brooklyn, NY – As deliberations began yesterday in the Weberman trial, alternate jurors who were excused from the case report that the remaining twelve jurors appear to be evenly divided on the subject of Weberman’s guilt in the highly watched case.
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Two of the alternate jurors told the New York Post (http://goo.gl/bhZiw) yesterday that they would have only been able to convict Weberman guilty on some of the charges he is facing.
“It’s a tough one,” explained one former alternate juror. “I thought there was a lack of evidence there. At the same time the Hasidic community does hide a lot. You can see it.”
“I don’t know what the jury’s going to do,” said one excused alternate to The NY Daily News. (http://goo.gl/cvpt7) “I think they are split right down the middle. I was split down the middle as well.”
Another alternate, described as a middle aged black woman, said she would have voted to acquit Weberman of all charges.
“I didn’t have enough evidence to nail the person,” the juror said. “There wasn’t enough evidence for me. Both sides were a little shady.”
Deliberations began yesterday in the case, but ended at 2:30 in the afternoon so that Weberman could return home in time for Shabbos. Jurors will continue deliberations on Monday morning.
In reality thast exactly what the case is all about. There is no hard evidence at all, and the prosecuter is banking on circumstantial evidence.
This is the reason why these cases are so hard to prosecute and why the victims dont come forward. No matter what we beleive happened , even the Jury’s decision wont give us full clarity or the real truth.
Even if the Jury beleives the victim, they are still not allowed to find him guilty if they have an ounce of doubt, so its a waiting game and probally a war inside the chamber as the jurors will try to convince their counterparts on how to vote.
Sad
It comes down to he said she said. There is no physical evidence or witnesses. I can’t see all 12 jurors agreeing on a guilty verdict. At the same time this case opened up major questions how a Satmar girls teenage girl get therapy by a man, and force her into a car alone with him despite the religious objections from her mother. Satmar separates the sexes vigorously. No matter the outcome of the Jury there is major red flags here
Which jurors, if any, were surreptitiously approached by certain parties allied with Weberman?
Just as I thought.
I think Weberman is guilty, but not beyond reasonable doubt.
If this trial (quite likely) ends in a “hung jury”, and if the DA retries this case, then it is extremely important that the other alleged victims come forward to testify. It is their religious and civic duty. I hope they could be convinced.
But if they don’t come forward, (or if they really don’t exist,) then, of course, the Almighty will sort it all out without the court’s “assistance”…
Rule of thumb: Ultimately NOBODY gets away with ANYTHING!
I just came off jury duty and 1 rule is jurrors are not allowed to discuss the case amongst themselves or with anyone else, so the Pst article is speculation at best.
it basically boils down to who do you believe more, no evidence what so eve, is america ur innocent until “proven” guilty, you can prove weberman guilty, and you cant prove him innocent, if there would be at least 1 witness or 1 more alleged victim there would be what to base it on, so as far till now the girl has no evidence no dna no claim, and the jurors have to believe she is telling the truth, when she lied about the 3 locks, when other girls who also went to weberman for counselling testified on behalf of him that the doors were never locked, so who do you believe, 1 girl who says was always locked, or 3 others who say was not locked, she warned him she will take revenge, so she has an agenda, very hard to believe with all these circumstances, and she has in plan to sue UTA Satmar and make millions,, hard to believe her and lock up a yid for life on no proof evidence what so ever, the jury cant “prove” him guilty! period!
I can’t believe he is completely innoscent but the DA has no case.
Its a shame they evern brought this senseless cass against him.
Very lousy work by the prosecution and DA. I hope he goes uncharged its word against word and you should not be allowed to convict some1 for circumstancial evidence if yes any1 can come say what they want.
I also can’t see anything wrong with how this girl was treated. She claims it was closed doors other wittneses said such think dosent exist the 3 locks aren’t as victim described it. If justci takes its course not emotions he walks!
Sad that other Alleged Victims of weberman will not testify.
The sad part is that when you finally have a case which should be a cause for applaud, there is a good change that he is innocent, if you follow other molestation cases in the jewish world and in the non jewish world, all of them have repeat offenses, in this case not even remotly is there another accuser, so I would suggest to all the commenters like #4 that are so sure that he is guilty: HOLD YOUR HORSES, yes there are unfortunatly molestors in the community but just because some people are desperate to nail a real molestor and make the case, does not mean we can throw a person in jail for life, and besides, let’s remember, we are yidden and according to halacha based on the current evidence he is considered innocent.
Let’s just see how far the sanhedrin went before someone was punished and let’s learn from there how we need to behave.
Btw. All this coming from someone who was molested more then once
The NY Post and the Daily news through out the trial was extremly bias.They didn’t tell us what went on in the court room all they wrote was the juicy stuff. If you go by the medias word weberman is guilty because he has a beard and peyos and belongs to satmar. Satmar was smeared in the media like never before as a cult with mafia like tactics. I hope the jury looks at the real facts and not what the media tells them. I don’t belive for a minute the jury doesn’t read or watch the media let’s just hope they are not influenecd by the bias media.
Can someone please explain how a frum man was alone in a room with a female. Even if the door was not locked. In my understanding,it is still assur.
We also know that Weberman , in a weak moment, admitted to using a non-profit he founded to fund tuitions and other expenses for his family. So he’s not likely to be well thought of after it came out that he intentionally committed tax fraud. Anything he says after that will have no credibility whatsoever. Juries don’t think kindly of crooks.
Hopefully, he will be found guilty based on the information we have been provided. How any frum yid could engage in this behavior is beyond a shadow of a doubt.
To all of you who believe that there are no other victims… Unfortunately there are other victims, however, when living amongst such a tight and controlling community there is no way these young women can come forward without compromising their families. Their kids will be threatened to be kicked out of school, the children will be harassed that the parent is a Moser, the spouse will be labeled Moser in shul, people will stop doing business with the individual etc. The social and economic repercussions of coming forward is what immobilizes the other victims and THE only reason why this victim was able to come forward is because she left the community albeit her immediate family is suffering.
Just to clarify. The DA testified to the judge ( not in front of the jury) that there are six other victims who gave statements to the DA , but at present refuse to testify.
IMHO the lawyer was extra brutal and went through hours of explicit and humiliating questions to keep the others from testifying,
Please ask yourselves this, why would anyone in their right mind put themselves through a public trial knowing the consequences of such doings? The family was put to shame, the grandchildren expelled from school, the victim accused of lying and fabricating a story for revenge. The Answer is; she did it to try and protect our children from even having to suffer the same fate. Instead of us judging her on her methods, try to be thankful for the awareness this raised .
I would like to remind all of you that DAs and proscuters never have to accuse or testify under penalty of purjery. With that said, they constantly lie in court without having anything to lose…
Anyone who takes an accusation from a DA or prosecutor for granted, is at best naïve.
Here you have a prosecutor’s word that there are more victims and oilem-goilem believes… How stupid!
I love how some people here put there facts based on there agendas,if you hate Satmer doesn’t mean that weberman is guilty you could just right I hate Satmer ,if you love Satmer doesn’t mean that the women lied you could just say Satmer is nice and weberman still did it,nobody here knows what when on there,according to our Torah that is not an once of evidence here,Satmer is community of thousands of people,there is all kinds of people there like any other place in the world,it’s just in a different style,I would say to all the haters here,you are driven by some kind of anti drive,and probably if things you be a Lille better in you’re life you will be able to see the good in all kind of people.
I know Nechemya – not well but I know him. To me he seems to be one of the nicest people I have ever met, and I personally believe him to be innocent. One thing he is not is stupid. Her story of him touching her at the first session is not believable at all. According to what I have read, molestors usually “groom” their victims. In a situation like this, it is not likely he would have made such a breach on the first session. I don’t think he ever did, but her claims that it happened at every session show that she probably made it up. If he were as evil as she claims, chas vshalom, then he would have been smarter about it. She should realize though that by doing this, she puts real victims in danger, because real molestors could say they were framed, as she is doing to him.
We are forgetting one very important issue. She did NOT go to the police or the DA! The therapist at her new school was a mandatory reporter and she decided to go to the DA. So the notion that she wanted revenge as Satmar wants you to believe is out the window.
I predict the Jury will come back with a Non Guilty on the top charge and a Guilty on all the lesser charges, and he will end up 3-5 years in prison.
Mark this, you heard it on VIN first. i have some expirience in this field and i know how jurors think usually in a case like this
Its tragic to see how many people chose to believe him over her becuase no other victims are willing to subject themselves to the public humiliation this brave girl endured. For those of you I say, take a look at Rabbi Horowitz’s site. There is a posting there under ” Weberman Trial Takes Away” which will prove you wrong. If you are interested in the truth and not just facts that are easier to digest , then I would recommend reading that before passing judgement
George Farkas is not a big time lawyer. This is the first time we ever heard of him. If you google his name, no serious cases come up. It seems that he is an expert shoplifting and motor vehicle attorney. Plainly, he did a real terrible job. If he needed 4 days of testimony to try and discredit a little girl, he failed.. Further, he obviously antagonized all news reporters and, as we will surely see very soon, he antagonized the jury. Combined with Weberman’s arrogance, a guilty verdict is as sure as the sun coming up. Boruch Mordechai Lebowitz, of great shame, was convicted and sentenced to 31 years in prison with much less testimony. Weberman would have been smart to have taken the offer of 2.5 to 5 years. He would have been out and on the street in less than 15 months. And he could have claimed that he just did not want to take a chance nor the bother of a trial. I don’t know how much it cost him, but to have three lawyers, no matter how weak, cost big bucks. No matter what, Weberman is finished as a “counselor,” “therapist,” or “witch doctor.” No one in Williamsburg will ever let a daughter go anywhere near to him. If the feds go after him, he’s looking at 5 years for tax fraud.
Further, an attempt to reach and influence one or more jurors must be considered as a real probability. Remember that there was a $500,000 bribe attempt to have her drop her charges. There’s no question that his supporters in the Williamsburg Satmar community will literaly do anything to have him found not-guilty.
The women who testified in his defense were very weak. As noted, one of those “ladies” left her family as a teenager and “sofa-surfed” and slept in cars until she found a warm bed in Weberman’s inner office. And she “slept” there for months.
She was reportedly heard saying that “she did what she had to do.” This was a witness for him. If that’s the best that his defense attorneys came come up with, Weberman is in deep manure, without a paddle.
Please explain how a chasidisha man could be in a private office talking about tights witha teenage girl. No chasidisha father would discuss this with his own daughter.
If its true that the DA gave names to the judge of other victims,why are they not called as witness to the case ?
I don’t know the law I’m just asking.
I guarantee you that not one family in Willy including Aron or Zalmen Leib would let their daughter spend 10 min utes in a private room with Weberman. This is unbelievable that Satmar would defend multiple hours of a man shacking up in a room with a girl?! taking a 14 hour ride to Monsey coming back at 2AM?! That’s what Aron did with Leiby Kletzky a”h. I rest my case!
ב”ה
העיקר כל הכותבים הערות שכחו שאנו מאמינים בני מאמינים בתורתינו הקדושה ולפי חוקי התורה אין מחייבים בלי שני עדות כשרים ועל ר’ נחמי’ אין עדים להמעשה ואפילו אם הי’ עדים כשרים העונש אינו חמור כ”כ כמו לפי חוקי הערכעות ומהנה תשובה אבל להביא המשפט לערכעות זה מיקר שם ע”ז וגדולה מזה החילול השם שעשעה להשמיץ קהילה גדולה הנאמים לה’ ולתורתו ומוסרים נפשם על קיצו של יוד בפני כל העולם כולו על זה פוסק הרמב”ם וש”ע שאינו מהנה תשובה רק מיתה מכפרת המשפחה שתובעות ר’ נחמי’ בערכעות אבי’ לובש באיצטלא דרבנן עם גרביים שחורים אמה לובש כמו אשה ירושלמי בלבוש צנועה על המדרגה הכי גבוהה אוי לנו כי חטאנו שהמשפחה ירדו לדיוטא תחתונה רק בשביל נקמה וחושבים שלית דין ולית דיין.
Anyone who followed the case closely from the beginning and has no bias, will tell you that the accuser here is very far from credible and is lying right and left. Anyone who has some knowledge in law and court proceedings will tell you that the DA and his team (including the judge who openly sided with the accuser, there were other lawyers watching the case including one of the most prominent and respectful attorney in America Alan Dershowitz and they were all very troubled with all the objections that the judge granted for the prosecutor, they were even more troubled when they learned of the DA’s behind the scenes maneuvers in favor of the accuser) acted more like the Bolivian court where they lock up someone who they personally know is innocent but will do whatever it takes and use all types of mafia tactics in the name of law for their own personal agenda. With this case the DA made sure that in such cases nobody will ever believe an accuser even in a case when we have a real victim, the DA basicly made sure that no real victim should ever come forward.
He is basicly washing his hands with innocent peoples blood. If this case goes to appeal and the right lawyers get involved, Hynes may face serious consequences….. A DA is not allowed to use the legal system for his own political agenda, he has to treat everyone fairly and apply the law legal system equally and not act according to what the media will say of him and his personal political gains…..
Btw, there is an active case now in NY now where the appeals court ordered that the defendant may file charges against the DA and the prosecutor for…….
It is incomprehensible that this very girl who defied her community, her teachers, her friends and family by openly rebelling at the age of 12 and venturing out in an entirely opposite direction, would allow herself to be molested for several years without uttering a word to anyone.
Here is a serious warning!
If you are friends with someone, that when they hear that someone is accused of molestations, jumps and says, the man is guilty, you are friends with a pedophile!
Keep your children away from them, ONLY a pedophile thinks everyone else is a pedophile, its a sickness.
Any other crime, these same people will tell you, well, let a jury decide, but anything related to molestation they are quick to deem the accused guilty.
MAY THIS BE A WARNING: keep your children away from those people.
I don’t know if she made it up or not, what I do know is that many days where spent in a court room in front of a jury, what we see in the news is maybe 1% of what the jury heard, how can we start playing armchair detective based on the bit we have access to.
Was anyone here asked to judge? Why all this chatter? We do not know if Satmar is doing the intimidating or the DA by insinuating that there are loads of unheard testimony out there or whatever. Will Satmar twist the truth, or the people trying to prove that Satmar can be prosecuted too? There seems so many angles, why form opinions? Isn’t it a bit silly?
No G-d fearing Yid, should ever, ever permit their daughter to be left alone with ANY male teacher, counselor, doctor, dentist, rabbi, or anyone else in a position to abuse your precious treasure.
I dont understand all this fanfare about Mr. Weberman. Aren’t we Yidden? Why didn’t she go to Din Torah? Why must the secular world get involved with this? After knowing Mr Weberman for many years and seeing this girl, and knowing her family history, there are many questions to be asked. All this nonsense about Williamsburg being close minded is nonsense. After growing up somewhere else and raising a beautiful family here, I never had issues. If you want to belong to a certain Kehilla, abide by there rules. No one is forcing you. And there is no reason to be a rebel and make this massive Chillul Hashem that was made. Also please look at who her supporters are. After going to an affair this week , and watching the element that supported this girl, these were mostly rebels and troublemakers. There is a RIBONO SHEL OLAM. We are not the one to punish Yes, we should make changes to correct the situation,however it does not have to go through the media and courthouse. I think it is time and realize Yidden must be B’ACHDUS, and stop making this Chilul Hashem.
To the “chochom” who says there’s no yichud in a car, at night driving out of town, think again… Rather, relearn your Halachas of Yichud. How is driving with a patient for hours or spending 12 hours a week therapeutically indicated? By design, it is a grooming process for breaching boundaries and exploitation of a child. If she was so “impaired”, perhaps a day treatment program for teens with severe psychiatric issues would have been warranted instead….
As in all cases, you have to follow the money to the truth. She is obviously not in it for the money, or she would have accepted the $500,000 bribe and lived well off these funds as a young newlywed. She turned it down so that this creep will never do to any other child what happened to her again. For those who claim that she has designs on making bigger bucks off UTA/Satmar in a civil lawsuit, think again. A quick and certain half million vs. a probable bigger payout would have been the obvious choice if it was greed. If it was revenge she would have approached the police as soon as she realized that weberman conspired with her father to have her boyfriend arrested. I didn’t hear that she came after her father and concoct a story about him. Instead she reluctantly revealed in a session to a licensed therapist what trauma she had endured with her previous “so-called therapist” who exploited her most horrifically. Her parents paid over 12 grand to have this creep molest their daughter! How sick is that??? Reverse prostitution! They also were taken by Weberman’s stature in the community and felt they had no choice but to go along with his rediculous plans (driving with her etc.). I have followed this case closely and have not heard that the witness testimony lacked credibility. She is a hero in our community and should be recognized accordingly. If the jury does foolishly acquit him, I hope the Feds come after him for admitting to tax fraud under oath. I also hope she does go after Satmar in a civil court and expose all they have done in this horrific case and in others. there is no other way for things to change…
for all you that know weberman I have a question: would you allow your teen daughter to have yichud with him? Men, would you have Yichud with a teen girl? would anyone be so stupid to put themselves into a Torah forbidden position that could have major ramifications against you? And, don’t tell me the guy is just a nice, naive person with never a thought of wrongdoing… even if he is innocent in this case, he has already admitted to theft from his “charities” and yichud which as a “Rabbi” he should have learned that both are forbidden!
i wonder if weberman had any good outcomes of his “intervention”. how many girls came back to the satmar community after his “help”.?it seems that there are some girls on her side, but are too scared or intimidated to testify against him in court. i would think the jury doesnt like him and has more pity on her. in general, the public doesnt really like us Jews, and would now confirm their feelings of us as taking advantage of a girl in trouble. what a chillul Hashem….shame on us all.
I strongly agree that Weberman should walk free because the sentencing guidelines the american government has put in place.Yes a molester should be punished but NOT destroy a family of 10 kids and 18 grand kids…The amount of prison a criminal gets here in the USA is unheard of anywhere in the world…Does Rubashkin deserve 27 years in prison.? We all know that 27 years is over sentenced..Does Jonathan Pollard deserve to be let free by now.? I believe every american knows by now and especially after Caspar Weinberger said that he should be let go by now….
If the prosecutors office would of been more lenient on those cases YES more victims will come forward…Most heimishe victims want their accused punished but NOT destroyed for life…So till Charles Hynes wont change his attitude towards the accused NOT too many victims will come forward……
Also i think this case is a WAKE UP call for all Rabunim and Gedoyle Hador to start believing the vicims and NOT the molesters…If the Torah is NOT going to judge then unfortunate all we are left is with the LAW…
In reply to 107. Are you aware of what is going on in London By the Kedasiha? Women went and made a scandel to the Rabonim, and told them if it was not taken care of it would go out in the open public. You could be sure it is being taken care of. From what I heard it is not an easy Parsha, but it is being taken very seriously and not swept under the rug. If it were done properly it would have been taken cared of here as well. Rabbanim can take a certain amount of pressure and after that it would have been sorted out. And the biggest Chilul Hashem is that all the dirty laundry was washed in public. People dont realilze that this can effect everyones lives. Remember, we are not suppose to put someone in jail. There is someone higher above than us that will punish them. That is not to say that we should let these creeps run the streets, however noise can also help if we do it amoung our Kehillas. If people would know the credibility of this girl, they would talk totally different. She is a and so are all her supporters.
The article didn’t say that (even) ANYONE at all, out of the entire Jury, even thought for a second, that perhaps Weberman is not guilty of anything at all.
The entire Jury was sure that Weberman is guilty, but they were “split” if to convict him on “ALL” charges or to convict him only on some of the charges.
Below is the quote from the VIN article above:
“Two of the alternate jurors told the New York Post (http://goo.gl/bhZiw) yesterday that they would have only been able to convict Weberman guilty on some of the charges he is facing. “
Can anyone confirm that she told her former boyfriend who was arrested that she will take revenge in Weberman?
Can anyone confirm that the boyfriend was suppose to testify saying what he knows about revenge but the DA threatened him with arrest becuase he had an order of protection not to speak with her? Just asking
Again i believe that every person writing pro or con Weberman believes child molesters need to be punished …Every child has the right of Freedom to be able to go to Yeshive or for private tutoring and NOT to worry that the person his parent entrusted him will molest him or her….Yes those molesters did get away with it for many many years and lots of children are victims of those vicious molesters.
The argument here is what Punishment fits the crime…..
I think if a Judge gives maximum 3-5 years Jail 10-15 years probation that will STOP a molester from repeating his behavior knowing that STRIKE 2 he will be back in the slammer for lots of years…There is NO need to destroy a father with 10 kids for life.
How do you think a molester will feel when he gets out of jail and every parent in shul pulls their kids aside from him.? i believe this is worse then rotting in a cell ….
Sherree- don’t waste your time with all those defenders of Weberman. Enjoy Chanukah and the courts will take care of the rest. He’s finished in the eyes of 99% of most people.