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Brooklyn, NY - DA: Any Yeshivah Found Ostracizing Abuse Victims Will Be Prosecuted By Grand Jury

Published on: December 11, 2012 09:34 AM
By: VIN News Staff
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New York - At a press conference yesterday following the guilty verdict on all 60 counts against 54-year-old unlicensed counselor Nechemya Weberman, Brooklyn District Attorney Charles J. Hynes sent a stern warning to those in the Satmar community who attempt to harass, intimidate or otherwise prevent sex abuse victims from coming forward with their allegations to secular authorities, saying he will prosecute anyone who engages in this type of behavior.

“If we are able to establish in any case where someone is told if you go to civil authorities, you will suffer consequences like being thrown out of a yeshiva school and not being allowed to go to a camp or taking away your right to marry,” Hynes said. “If any of that is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, you can bet that I’m gonna have a grand jury indict and we’re gonna prosecute to the maximum.”

Hynes also said he is optimistic that the Executive Committee of the State DA’s Association in New York State will support a mandatory reporting statute requiring clergy members to file a mandated report upon learning of any information about sex crimes involving a child. Currently, only licensed therapists and teachers are mandated reporters in New York State.

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Read Comments (94)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:07 AM rationalsavta Says:

IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

2

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:07 AM c Says:

Good. You are now warned. It's just a shame that it takes a secular govt to teach you basic ethics, morals and human decency.

3

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Long overdue!!!!!!!! A new day is dawning, a better day!!!!!!

4

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:02 AM Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

5

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:01 AM Robert Zimmerman Says:

I hope he succeeds. This is good for every Jewish child.

6

 Dec 11, 2012 at 09:58 AM ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

7

 Dec 11, 2012 at 09:52 AM Chamor ben Shor Says:

Hynes says it the way it is...The days of hurting our children are over. Contrary to what some may say about Hynes being out to "get the Jews", if it was YOUR son or daughter, you'd think differently too. I challenge you. Bring it on, I'M READY!!!!

8

 Dec 11, 2012 at 09:42 AM ChareidiMan Says:

I think Satmar must take a good look at this and must act upon it. The attitude of myway or the highway is out the window, but even more than that. They must admit that indeed this is a big problem and it must be adressed.

I think Satmar will be surprised to see that DA Hynes is not our enemy, but our friend and he is looking out for the safety of the children

9

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:27 AM Huh? Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

If a school accepts goverment money; school lunch money, secular textbooks, etc. they must have a non-discrimination policy.
The "somebody else will take them" theory is not legally exceptable.
The schools stand to loose alot of money.

10

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:29 AM PaulinSaudi Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

Wrong. Retaliation against witnesses, suppression of reports of crime are forms of perversion of justice. It is a darn shame religious people need this explained to them.

11

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

"For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?"

This is a problem with our people. We force our kids to marry "well" and hide the fact our kids may have been diagnosed with mental illness or any genetic disease, or may be homosexuals. We destroy their lives by forcing them to change just to get married. My friend has 2 gay sons and no one knows but three or four people, yet the sons are getting married shortly to beautiful girls who are clueless! Is this fair to ruin everyones' life, I ask you?

12

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:37 AM AviBorders Says:

Parents should take a more proactive role. Pedophiles will always be around. We have four children in the Chasidic system in Boro Park and always encourage them to write diaries about anything they wish which we scan secretly. We also sometimes trail them on the way to and from school, and make sure we know very well if any conversations take place with adults. Should a pedophile get involved, a signal will quickly emerge. One cannot be in denial and ultimately it is the responsibility of the parents to detect any potential problem. Our community unfortunately is in too much denial, too misguided and too miseducated to prevent pedophiles or provide help.

13

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

I've changed my opinion of Hynes now and I do believe he will fight for our kinder....before he only worked to protect the molestors. This trial is the beginning of the end for sexual abuse in my neighborhood.

14

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:44 AM neezoogshoin Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

You are totally right. Even if the kids are not thrown out of their schools, they will be denigrated endlessly; their life will be made miserable.
It makes me so sad.

15

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:51 AM Anonymous Says:

How horrible to think that a jew might harass someone else who pursued justice rightfully. How horrible for any of our children to learn and any of our adults or anyone else to experience. This hive mentality has to STOP.

16

 Dec 11, 2012 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
ChareidiMan Says:

I think Satmar must take a good look at this and must act upon it. The attitude of myway or the highway is out the window, but even more than that. They must admit that indeed this is a big problem and it must be adressed.

I think Satmar will be surprised to see that DA Hynes is not our enemy, but our friend and he is looking out for the safety of the children

it is sick to say "SATMAR"
stupid
I'm commenting on Hynes just on the idea of naming SATMAR is silly
u could say this on anyone from satmar too secular and all in between
to keep on naming satmar in this whole issue because he happens to be Satmar is dumb

17

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:11 AM The Nudnik Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

An act in order to discourage reporting of a crime can be considered obstruction of justice, which is a crime everywhere in the United States.

18

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

19

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:35 AM just wondering Says:

While in no way would I ever condone such behavior, the DA is strutting like a peacock now because of his latest conviction but truth be told he has no power over schools in such a manner.

20

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:46 AM Realistic Says:

Reply to #9  
Huh? Says:

If a school accepts goverment money; school lunch money, secular textbooks, etc. they must have a non-discrimination policy.
The "somebody else will take them" theory is not legally exceptable.
The schools stand to loose alot of money.

"non-discrimination policy", even non jews, or someone who has a total different way of life then the school parents want to send their children with?

21

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

They just indicted a non Satmar principal last week , This has nothing to do with Satmar, Also its a shame the the DA and the justice system is based on sick mentally ill people's testimony like N.......and others . in the community these people are considered really abnormal or retarded ,The DA wanted to make a point and teach a lesson , But they don't understand how the Chasidic community is structured , Any sick head could come in and accuse you of a crime and as long you look somewhat chassidish your story is accepted and especially if he calls himself a rabbi ,
Very sad ,this was a total failure to the justice system, A case without evidence to put away someone for life is a shame, There's no other enforcement in our community on a daily basis, Cars and homes being broken into, People being robbed @ Knife and gun point, When you call these so called police they always give you a argument that they haven;t really seen him commit the crime so we gotta let him go, But in this case "He said, She said " is evidence enough to put away a person for life, I think we need a new justice system ,

22

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:55 AM thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

23

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:56 AM Sherree Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

Well then, it is up to other parents to recognize that this child and these parents are doing it to SAVE their children and future grandchildren. SO if yeshivas blackball such children and parents, it is HIGH TIME that the parent body stand up for the innocent and protectors of the innocent children and do something about it. The Parent Body, the entire Parent Body needs to force policies in their own yeshivas!! There is always safety in numbers and without parents and without students there is no yeshiva. The ATITUDE has to change and the problem is that over the past few decades we have given too much control over to the Yeshivas who have taken ALL the control away from the Parents. WAKE UP and take some control back!!

What the Parent body in TT should have done was keep their kids out for a day to protest, or even two or three. If the Parent body would have joined together instead of being afraid of the hanhalah it would have made a huge difference not only to TT but to all the other Yeshivas and Roshei Yeshivas. Nothing will ever change if you don't force change.

24

 Dec 11, 2012 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

Very nice said. Being Satmar and knowing the facts; This case has nothing to do with Satmar, (Except by the press).

In my point of view being found guilty by a jury doesn't make a difference. The courts are packed with witnesses who have self interest, (like plea bargains, Expert witnesses getting paid for their testimonies, people who may potentially benefit from the outcome by suing for damages). The jury generally consists of people who have a low IQ and weren't smart enough to get out of this.

But even if he is guilty as hell, Satmar has nothing to do with this. Mr. Weberman is not powerful at all, everyone in Williamsburgh is laughing while reading how powerful he is. Satmar didn't recommend him at all (they actually recommended a woman), he was chosen by her parents who had a very close relationship to Mr. Weberman. The only role Satmar played here, was forcing the parents to send her to counselling, and demanding upfront payment as assurance that she will attend the sessions. (These facts were agreed in court by the prosecution and defense, just not by the newspapers.)

All this satmar bashing, is pure hatred against frum Jews,

25

 Dec 11, 2012 at 12:04 PM from-here_to-there Says:

Mr. Hynes, Don't forget to tell it to the church also...

26

 Dec 11, 2012 at 12:07 PM c Says:

Reply to #18  
EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

Your making a lot of assumptions in your comment. Most of the people commenting on VIN are frum, ehrliche and proud yidden and are far from self-hating Jews. No one is saying that abuse is worse in chasidic or frum circles. It happens to be that religous in groups in general tend to cover up instances of abuse for variance reasons; some of which are freely admitted by some commenters here. Some groups including the Catholic church, have been sued and prosecuted for cobvering up and enabling abuse. Sadly many frum Jewish groups have not yet learned their lesson. G-d willing people will heed this warning and change their corrupt ways without the necessity of prosecution. If theu don't, there will be no one to blame except themselves.

27

 Dec 11, 2012 at 12:14 PM enlightened-yid Says:

If you think about it from a different perspective, these communities that will not allow victims into their yeshivos will actually do them a huge favor and save their lives. These kids can end up in better run schools or join programs like Footsteps that literally change fate of frum/chassidic people who otherwise would be reliant on food-stamps because education is not what those yeshivos provide anyway.

28

 Dec 11, 2012 at 12:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

The news says there are 2 more witnesses coming forward and one is coming back from Israel. The other one is in protective custody now.

29

 Dec 11, 2012 at 12:44 PM monalisa Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

I tend to agree. I'm a mandated reporter & I have reported abuse, unfortunately, from within our system, always with support and advice of Rabbonim (for obvious reasons, namely pressure and retribution.) But how do you prosecute a way of thinking....shidduchim is always the #1 concern of every parent and how is pointing out a reality, albeit a very unfair one, prosecutable? Now we can't even play devil's advocate to help our friends & family. DA Hynes is making a witchhunt against the frum veldt.

30

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
neezoogshoin Says:

You are totally right. Even if the kids are not thrown out of their schools, they will be denigrated endlessly; their life will be made miserable.
It makes me so sad.

And the klal should do their best to denigrate the rabbonim and askanim of those yeshivos and associated mosdos that engage in this type of vindictive retaliation whether it be some lowly rav or somone considered a gadol. It simply cannot be tolerated. By seeking to shame them, deny them access to funds and any other weapon at our disposal the tzibur needs to say NO to these bullies who seek to support the abusers, whether directly or indirectly.

31

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:07 PM c Says:

Reply to #22  
thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

I find that most people who bring up the aveirah of mesirah have not learned any of the hilachos of mesirah. Anyone who holds that mesirah applies to a molester is either ignorant of what a molester is, ignorant oh halacha, a fool or a Rasha.

Just for one view from the Aruch hashulchan holds that mesirah only applies to reporting on someone to a group of bandits. I understand there are different opinions as to how to learn Aruch Hashulchan, but, my point is that not many people even bother to learn the halachos. However the real problem is why does this aveirah get you more worked up than the underlying aveirah and crime comitted!!!!

32

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:09 PM shredready Says:

Reply to #25  
from-here_to-there Says:

Mr. Hynes, Don't forget to tell it to the church also...

you really need to read the news more not only frum web sites the church has been persecuted over and over not only in this country but many others. You think this behavior of obstruction is only in NY check out the frum community in Australia is going through the same thing in public . truthfully the ultra Orthodox have no one to blame but themselves for not speaking up against the harassment of the victims and not calling out leaders who do so

33

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:10 PM Huh? Says:

There is either alot of sarcasm being posted on this thread or alot of pedophiles are posting in this thread.
i cannot believe that any human being justified a rapist being not prosecuted because he is jewish. What a sick misinterpretation of the halochos of mesira.

34

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:20 PM c Says:

Reply to #22  
thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

Even according to the more strict opinions who rarely allow reporting to the govt (except where there is harm involved to the victim) there is a general exception to the rule when the govt will find out that we are covering matters up. In such a case due to the chillul hashem that is being caused the reporting would be permitted. Shulchan Aruch (Choshen Mishpat 28:3) . No one can argue the great chilul Hashem that is being causes by yidden covering up crimes.

35

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:25 PM tired Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

They just indicted a non Satmar principal last week , This has nothing to do with Satmar, Also its a shame the the DA and the justice system is based on sick mentally ill people's testimony like N.......and others . in the community these people are considered really abnormal or retarded ,The DA wanted to make a point and teach a lesson , But they don't understand how the Chasidic community is structured , Any sick head could come in and accuse you of a crime and as long you look somewhat chassidish your story is accepted and especially if he calls himself a rabbi ,
Very sad ,this was a total failure to the justice system, A case without evidence to put away someone for life is a shame, There's no other enforcement in our community on a daily basis, Cars and homes being broken into, People being robbed @ Knife and gun point, When you call these so called police they always give you a argument that they haven;t really seen him commit the crime so we gotta let him go, But in this case "He said, She said " is evidence enough to put away a person for life, I think we need a new justice system ,

i see your point but the community is tired of being bullied on a daily biases of your life by people that are in it only for money and power and you know exactly what we are talking here schools housing marriage shuls it is only a matter of time before it breaks out all the way our children are coming out of schools empty if they are lucky to get in to a school, you can have a nice apartment if you have an extra 1500 for the landlord after section, etc......lets not go all the way but i am sure u know exactly where i am coming from a lot of pain from you and your buddies so cut the bs. what wright did he have to counsel girls none, but the power told him it is OK but u know what the game is over and the suffering people feel a little justice for the little guy so all you landlords administrates principals bums the game of harassment is over

36

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

No you cannot! It is called obstruction of justice. The law is there to protect our children from these predators whom our community has been protecting for decades.

37

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:44 PM chayamom Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

Its time to stop thinking like you do. People are and have been hurt by the way you think! It's why we are in so much trouble with children going off the derech, people not trusting rabbanim, people living empty lives, etc. It is time to trust that Hash-m has shidduchim all figured out already - now go do what needs to be done to protect yiddishe children from being hurt!
Don't you think there is a problem when it is okay to marry off children and do shidduchim with "desirable" families when all "desirable" means is wealthy, powerful, and looks good from the outside? We have to stop living life judging externals and start redefining what a "good" shidduch really means!

38

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:46 PM Butterfly Says:

To #21 Would you be able to sleep at night knowing that somebody is molesting your children? Mesira is a big question but there comes a time when you have to ask your heart -- if you have one-- should I or shouldn't I?? These are innocent children!! They could be mine!! How do I protect them?? Do we let these animals get away with this because these kids are left traumatized for years and sometimes for the rest of their lives!! Do you moser or not? Do you ask your rav? Do you do the RIGHT thing or do you leave the kinder with the monster?? Pretend it is your seven year old boy or eight year old girl? I leave it to you!!

39

 Dec 11, 2012 at 01:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

It's time to stop judging people on how frum and ehrlich they are by the way they are dressed! This works both ways. Erlichkeit is inside the person. There are many empty suits walking around, and when they have money or power then all of a sudden they can do no wrong! I am saddened by how low some people live their lives and how many people refuse to believe that we have so many problems in our midst all because - they dress and exemplify something they aren't! They appear to be "bakovodike mentchen". Lowlifes don't always wear a sign on their shirts letting you know what kind of trash they are, which is how they get away with the filth they do on the side!

40

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

The news says there are 2 more witnesses coming forward and one is coming back from Israel. The other one is in protective custody now.

Who is the media anyway? The media made this case they're #1 top stories...One thing is sure, they're happy that a frum "rabbi" is gonna sit for life.

41

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:30 PM c Says:

Reply to #38  
Butterfly Says:

To #21 Would you be able to sleep at night knowing that somebody is molesting your children? Mesira is a big question but there comes a time when you have to ask your heart -- if you have one-- should I or shouldn't I?? These are innocent children!! They could be mine!! How do I protect them?? Do we let these animals get away with this because these kids are left traumatized for years and sometimes for the rest of their lives!! Do you moser or not? Do you ask your rav? Do you do the RIGHT thing or do you leave the kinder with the monster?? Pretend it is your seven year old boy or eight year old girl? I leave it to you!!

Amazing words and insights, Thank you. Moshe Rabbeinu ask hashem to remove him from the Torah when it came to saving his children, the Yidden. Sometimes there is a greater good and one must sacrifice themselves to protect our children, even if it means being removed from the Torah. B"H one doesn't have to come to that in this type of case, since it is 100% a Torah obligation to report a molester.

42

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:33 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #9  
Huh? Says:

If a school accepts goverment money; school lunch money, secular textbooks, etc. they must have a non-discrimination policy.
The "somebody else will take them" theory is not legally exceptable.
The schools stand to loose alot of money.

“ If a school accepts goverment money; school lunch money, secular textbooks, etc. they must have a non-discrimination policy."

Huh? right back at you. Because what you are saying is that the school accepting any public money (governments don't have money, but that's another gap in you education) must accept boys and girls both, Jews and, lhavdil, goyim both. Utter nonsense! And if not, they MUST discriminate!

43

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:33 PM wondering Says:

Reply to #22  
thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

Have you ever actually studied the issue of mesirah where it is originally written and how it is currently interpreted or ar you just writing what you hear on the streests of Willi?

44

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

And the torah does allow abuse?? If someone will not listen to the torah for his pleasures, the victim has every right not to listen to the torah as well!!

45

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:45 PM shredready Says:

Reply to #22  
thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

in the usa there is a system for all what you are asking that if a gentile get convicted he should be sentenced to more year than a Jew is that want you are saying?

46

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:51 PM RalphWaldoEmerson Says:

Reply to #20  
Realistic Says:

"non-discrimination policy", even non jews, or someone who has a total different way of life then the school parents want to send their children with?

Yes they actually place ads in Jewish newspapers announcing their "non-discriminatory" policy

47

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:51 PM rikki Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

All Yeshivos get some sort of Government funding and, regardless, as such
they have an obligation to cooperate with the government. Also, if the abused was your kid, how would you feel about letting the perpetrator get away with it and continue his/her abuse? By not reporting such crimes against children, we are silently letting this continue...how wonderful it would have been if all these people would have been put away years ago and all these lechtige neshomos would not have gone through these unmentionable acts??!!

48

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:57 PM My Take Says:

The problem is, how can it be determined that the abuse really took place,if no one else witnessed it? Maybe the victim is lying and has some agenda against the abuser. Maybe someone innocent is going to jail unjustly. I think just as doctors have to have a nurse or someone present they examine a patient for their own protection, there ought to be someone either in the room or behind a one way mirror, or a camera monitoring the room whenever a counselor has a session with another person. I know that confidentiality will be somewhat compromised, but, it's for everyone's benefit.

49

 Dec 11, 2012 at 02:58 PM RalphWaldoEmerson Says:

Reply to #27  
enlightened-yid Says:

If you think about it from a different perspective, these communities that will not allow victims into their yeshivos will actually do them a huge favor and save their lives. These kids can end up in better run schools or join programs like Footsteps that literally change fate of frum/chassidic people who otherwise would be reliant on food-stamps because education is not what those yeshivos provide anyway.

I agree their is nothing better for a 6 year old kid than being kicked out of school because the principal molested your older sibling

50

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38
I hear your point and its a valid point, The issue here is." who's accusing whom",Unfortunately i'm somewhat familiar with the party's here , No relation or any family to neither of'm, I just happen to live in this community and i know them both ,Her credibility is not sufficient for such a harsh punishment especially when there was so many inconsistency's. I'm fully for that if someone indeed molests a innocent child to deal with it and its probably not even called "Mesirah" the case here is not a innocent child at all that's the point ,you're probably a good Jew from somewhere in the 5 borough's , Would you have known the "Party's " Involved , you would've totally agreed with me,

51

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:04 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #37  
chayamom Says:

Its time to stop thinking like you do. People are and have been hurt by the way you think! It's why we are in so much trouble with children going off the derech, people not trusting rabbanim, people living empty lives, etc. It is time to trust that Hash-m has shidduchim all figured out already - now go do what needs to be done to protect yiddishe children from being hurt!
Don't you think there is a problem when it is okay to marry off children and do shidduchim with "desirable" families when all "desirable" means is wealthy, powerful, and looks good from the outside? We have to stop living life judging externals and start redefining what a "good" shidduch really means!

Yes, Mrs. Chaya, a lot of what you said is very fair, but the bottom line: Until such time that you arrange a shidduch for your, quotes, "good" son with such, quotes, "damaged" girl, you have no room saying any of those things.

52

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:04 PM KevinTheMevin Says:

Reply to #12  
AviBorders Says:

Parents should take a more proactive role. Pedophiles will always be around. We have four children in the Chasidic system in Boro Park and always encourage them to write diaries about anything they wish which we scan secretly. We also sometimes trail them on the way to and from school, and make sure we know very well if any conversations take place with adults. Should a pedophile get involved, a signal will quickly emerge. One cannot be in denial and ultimately it is the responsibility of the parents to detect any potential problem. Our community unfortunately is in too much denial, too misguided and too miseducated to prevent pedophiles or provide help.

Scanning your children's diaries secretly is abusive and twisted, its not how you protect your children from pedophiles, you protect them by giving them a healthy foundation of self esteem and self respect and educating them that no-one no-one including relatives (most sexual abuse is incest) and teachers is allowed to touch their bodies in a covered area, and if they do they should ignore any threats the pedophile uses and inform you and you will protect them.

53

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:08 PM thegreatone Says:

#31 #34 When a judge gives instructions to a jury they are being told that here we have a victim (dead person or living victim) and here we have the defendant who's life is at stake and may face severe prison terms.
Point,you cant just open up the schulcan orech and say it says so and so, about such a sensitive matter.Something like this you must ask a very respected competent dayan/rav on a case by case basis.They must hear from the accused his side.We live by the torah and not by emotions.
To think that what i am saying means that i stick up for molesters shows how easy it became for us to send away a yid in prison.I would rather beat the heck on a child molester than to send him in prison.

54

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:09 PM from-here_to-there Says:

Reply to #32  
shredready Says:

you really need to read the news more not only frum web sites the church has been persecuted over and over not only in this country but many others. You think this behavior of obstruction is only in NY check out the frum community in Australia is going through the same thing in public . truthfully the ultra Orthodox have no one to blame but themselves for not speaking up against the harassment of the victims and not calling out leaders who do so

the church has been "persecuted" - learn your history - the Church has been the major supplier of persecution since it's (the churches) inception. did DA Hynes or other DA's come out with public statements against the church and chistians? now... before you blow an artery and accuse me of shielding molesters - go read my other posts.

55

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:11 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #18  
EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

"It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave."

I can't say this from any personal experience because I've never been involved in any such case in any capacity, and hope not to, ever! But common sense tells me you are right about one thing at least: regardless of the merits of the case itself, this out of proportion publicity is at least in part due to the goyim and secular so called jews knowing that we are better than them, and the way we dress make this knowledge too vivid for them.

56

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:11 PM PMOinFL Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

Here's the problem. While they certainly have the right to admit or remove any students they want to, witness intimidation is illegal. If they expel a kid following his (or a family member's) agreement to give testimony, without the ability to show another valid reason for doing so, the witness intimidation will be obvious to anyone.

What the DA is saying is this:
1. We KNOW you intimidate witnesses.
2. We KNOW that you use threats of violence, and excommunication to force people to lie to the courts and the police, even while "swearing" to tell the truth.
3. We KNOW that you have squads of people who will do anything and everything, no matter how illegal, corrupt, or inhuman, to ruin the lives of victims, witnesses and their families.
4. We will now ruin your life before you ever have the chance to ruin the life of someone else.
5. We will lock you in a prison where you cannot be a threat to anyone.
6. From today forward we will make sure your name is known as a criminal and ensure it is YOUR children who will not find a shidduch.
7. Starting now, YOUR children will effectively grow up as orphans while you rot in a cage for your immoral, criminal acts.

I applaud them for it!

57

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:13 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #39  
Anonymous Says:

It's time to stop judging people on how frum and ehrlich they are by the way they are dressed! This works both ways. Erlichkeit is inside the person. There are many empty suits walking around, and when they have money or power then all of a sudden they can do no wrong! I am saddened by how low some people live their lives and how many people refuse to believe that we have so many problems in our midst all because - they dress and exemplify something they aren't! They appear to be "bakovodike mentchen". Lowlifes don't always wear a sign on their shirts letting you know what kind of trash they are, which is how they get away with the filth they do on the side!

It is true that not all people who dress frum actually are. But the other side is also true: people who dress untznius never are.

58

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:18 PM PMOinFL Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

The sickness is the LATTER part of your comment.

The very idea that we would tar and feather a victim of abuse in such a way that it makes a shidduch either difficult or impossible turns my stomach! THAT is where the sickness lies. Witness intimidation is illegal. It is no different than the mob threatening to kill a witness' family for testifying.

You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking that "shidduch" should EVER be a valid reason not to come forward. YOU have the worst sickness of all... APATHY and TOLERANCE for the rape and molestation of our children. When a rapist goes free, he rapes again. We know this. History shows it is true. And by the time we catch a rapist he has already destroyed more lives than we even know about.

The sickness that drives a man to rape children is unimaginable. The sickness that allows otherwise normal people to accept that behavior is worse. The sickness that says "I don't care if a rapist goes free and rapes more kids, so long as my kid doesn't mess up their chances for a good shidduch" is the sickest of them all.

59

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

Just wondering...Which Poisek should I ask, can I ask my Poisek or will I commit a sin if I don't ask your Poisek.

60

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:29 PM PMOinFL Says:

Reply to #18  
EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

So... Jews who believe that Jewish rapists should go to prison for their crimes are self-hating? Jews who believe that Jews who come forward as victims to stop these animals from RAPING innocent kids are COURAGEOUS HEROES, are also self-hating?

My guess is that you and I probably dress a lot alike, as do our wives. And yes, in the secular/xian/Muslim world child-rape is an all-too-common occurrence, but it happens at the SAME RATE in OUR community. The world shows the same outrage when it happens to xians as when it happens to Jews. The difference is that their communities rally together to fight tooth-and-nail to catch these animals and put them in cages where we belong. They see great courage, and personal sacrifice in those who come forward and hold them up as HEROES. The story here isn't that child-rape HAPPENS. We all know it happens. It is that a community finds a child-rapist in its midst and the acceptable response is to threaten the victim, their family and even extended family with everything from expulsion from schools to physical violence. THAT is the sickness that all decent human beings are shocked an appalled by. It has NOTHING to do with antisemitism.

61

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:29 PM monalisa Says:

Reply to #37  
chayamom Says:

Its time to stop thinking like you do. People are and have been hurt by the way you think! It's why we are in so much trouble with children going off the derech, people not trusting rabbanim, people living empty lives, etc. It is time to trust that Hash-m has shidduchim all figured out already - now go do what needs to be done to protect yiddishe children from being hurt!
Don't you think there is a problem when it is okay to marry off children and do shidduchim with "desirable" families when all "desirable" means is wealthy, powerful, and looks good from the outside? We have to stop living life judging externals and start redefining what a "good" shidduch really means!

Don't you think there is a problem when it is okay to marry off children and do shidduchim with "desirable" families when all "desirable" means is wealthy, powerful, and looks good from the outside? We have to stop living life judging externals and start redefining what a "good" shidduch really means! ”

Agreed. But the problem is, this is the reality. If more families looked for the quality of the families & the prospective spouses rather than externals (including my all-time favorite, yichus) most of these "glittering" shidduchim would never have gotten to first base. It's the single biggest threat to any change in how we respond to issues in our communities, including dealing with abuse. Nasty but true. Unless we openly support victims & their families, I don't see it changing.

62

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:50 PM yidelle Says:

I think we should just give over the chinuch of our Children to the people who run this compain tru the media (formely abused) and the comentators of this stories. "down with all the robonim"

63

 Dec 11, 2012 at 03:52 PM thegreatone Says:

Reply to #43  
wondering Says:

Have you ever actually studied the issue of mesirah where it is originally written and how it is currently interpreted or ar you just writing what you hear on the streests of Willi?

No, i have not studied the halacha of Mesira to pasken.
ts not how you,i or in willi interpret it.It is as its known by yidden that in such a sensitive matter to send someone in prison you must ask a very competent rav.

64

 Dec 11, 2012 at 04:00 PM thegreatone Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

And the torah does allow abuse?? If someone will not listen to the torah for his pleasures, the victim has every right not to listen to the torah as well!!

No,the torah does not allow abuse.
As far as the reason you give why you are allowed to inform, that's why i said in the beginning that "My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews" and someone who davens three times a day someone who keeps shabbos,taharas hamischpacha,eats kosher,medakdak bemitzvos does not talk like this.
A molester is an animal and a pig but still it does not give anyone an automatic heter to inform.

65

 Dec 11, 2012 at 04:15 PM bkjew Says:

please dont take me the wrong way what i am going to write here !!!!!!!!!! all you bashers make it sound that the molestation is only going on in satmar ! i dont know if you realized last week a princable from a flatbush school got charrged with abusing 3 boys and noone talked about it(post had a small artticale becuase that guy doesnt have a big beard and curles ) sexual abuse happens everywhere and anybody that does ist should rot in jail but my problem is thta the DAS office and everyone is blowing it up9bigger from when the blew up the church sex scandles )because its good publicity and they sell lots of posts! guilty onb all 60counts????? that almost never happens in court(unless your a jew 1 so all you bashers sit down a think for a moment whats wrong here ! its not that hes gonna get prison its that the rest of the other pedophiles are not getting prison because the DAS oofice doesnt get publicity with it THEY ARE USING ALL THE YIDDISH CASES TO BE ABLE TO BE IN THE NEWS AND A YEAR FROM NOW CHARLES HYNES WILL RUN FOR OOFFICE FOR SOMETHING OR RETIRE AND BE REMEMBERED THAT HE WAS THE BEST DA so we are all being used

66

 Dec 11, 2012 at 04:24 PM Yipyap Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

I agree with you whole heartedly. Shidduch before the childs well being and saftey should be on everyones mind.

67

 Dec 11, 2012 at 05:34 PM ohdear Says:

Reply to #52  
KevinTheMevin Says:

Scanning your children's diaries secretly is abusive and twisted, its not how you protect your children from pedophiles, you protect them by giving them a healthy foundation of self esteem and self respect and educating them that no-one no-one including relatives (most sexual abuse is incest) and teachers is allowed to touch their bodies in a covered area, and if they do they should ignore any threats the pedophile uses and inform you and you will protect them.

Right on Kevin! # 12 please get some parenting help, My friend caught her mother looking at her diary when she was 12, Trust me when I say that her mother knew nothing about her teenage life, her trust was broken that is the opposite of what you need... you need really open communication with your children, explain and teach them well about what their bodies are.. That it is personal!!

68

 Dec 11, 2012 at 05:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
thegreatone Says:

No, i have not studied the halacha of Mesira to pasken.
ts not how you,i or in willi interpret it.It is as its known by yidden that in such a sensitive matter to send someone in prison you must ask a very competent rav.

when a rav gets a degree in criminology and the like so that they have even a slight understanding of this involved topic, then you can ask a rav your opinion. Until then there does not exist a "competent" rav on the matter anywhere.

69

 Dec 11, 2012 at 05:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #64  
thegreatone Says:

No,the torah does not allow abuse.
As far as the reason you give why you are allowed to inform, that's why i said in the beginning that "My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews" and someone who davens three times a day someone who keeps shabbos,taharas hamischpacha,eats kosher,medakdak bemitzvos does not talk like this.
A molester is an animal and a pig but still it does not give anyone an automatic heter to inform.

a molester is a rodef and you have an achrayis to inform .... this isn't czarist Russia. You have no understanding of mesira. Even non-Jews have a clearer understanding than you do.

70

 Dec 11, 2012 at 05:38 PM Huh? Says:

Reply to #42  
ShmuelG Says:

“ If a school accepts goverment money; school lunch money, secular textbooks, etc. they must have a non-discrimination policy."

Huh? right back at you. Because what you are saying is that the school accepting any public money (governments don't have money, but that's another gap in you education) must accept boys and girls both, Jews and, lhavdil, goyim both. Utter nonsense! And if not, they MUST discriminate!

I will clarify what I meant.
You may have seen non-discriminatory notices in news papers such as Hamodia.
They need to be published annually so mosdos can receive government money.
My firm has written a few of them. The usual language that we use includes "boys school for children of the Orthodox Jewish Faith". For a discrimination case they would need to prove that the student is an orthodox jewish boy, and the student is being excluded for some other reason unfairly. If the school administers an admissions test to all children and the child scored poorly, compaired to children that were accepted they would have a valid reason to exclude. If the child did better than the other children and he is excluded they would need to have some other defensible exclusionary criteria to avoid legal liability and government sanctions.
i hope this clears up the confusion.
And, I am sorry that my earlier post upset you so much that you found it necessary to ridicule and insult me.

71

 Dec 11, 2012 at 05:40 PM chayamom Says:

Reply to #57  
ShmuelG Says:

It is true that not all people who dress frum actually are. But the other side is also true: people who dress untznius never are.

untznius by whose definition? Some consider ANY shaitel untznius, others consider jeans on a male untzius. Whose standards?

72

 Dec 11, 2012 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Quite a few people here sound like they've been very jealous of Satmar all their lives. You must be so so happy that u can finally "GIVE IT TO THEM".
Just be aware that the media and world in general associate u with Satmar. To them a Jew is a Jew no matter where u belong.
So hold ur horses!!!

73

 Dec 11, 2012 at 05:56 PM shredready Says:

Reply to #54  
from-here_to-there Says:

the church has been "persecuted" - learn your history - the Church has been the major supplier of persecution since it's (the churches) inception. did DA Hynes or other DA's come out with public statements against the church and chistians? now... before you blow an artery and accuse me of shielding molesters - go read my other posts.

maybe you want the da to charge them with crimes because of the crusades what is your point in addition with the church it is the church that hide the abuse not the whole community and the community was outraged at the Church leaders and supported the victims. that is simply not the case in the frum community. The victim get no support even when the community knows it is true.

Big diffidence

74

 Dec 11, 2012 at 06:00 PM sheready Says:

Reply to #55  
ShmuelG Says:

"It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave."

I can't say this from any personal experience because I've never been involved in any such case in any capacity, and hope not to, ever! But common sense tells me you are right about one thing at least: regardless of the merits of the case itself, this out of proportion publicity is at least in part due to the goyim and secular so called jews knowing that we are better than them, and the way we dress make this knowledge too vivid for them.

who have it backward the media circus is because you try to portray yourselves as holier than thou and more pious. and then they see how you come and attack victims of abuse it makes for good news. just like the abuse with the church was big news Secret the priest are not Jewish yet it made front t page

75

 Dec 11, 2012 at 06:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
ShmuelG Says:

It is true that not all people who dress frum actually are. But the other side is also true: people who dress untznius never are.

Wow u are really really buried in the sand! Do u know how many communities dont adhere to tznius rules but are frum in all other aspects??

76

 Dec 11, 2012 at 06:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
bkjew Says:

please dont take me the wrong way what i am going to write here !!!!!!!!!! all you bashers make it sound that the molestation is only going on in satmar ! i dont know if you realized last week a princable from a flatbush school got charrged with abusing 3 boys and noone talked about it(post had a small artticale becuase that guy doesnt have a big beard and curles ) sexual abuse happens everywhere and anybody that does ist should rot in jail but my problem is thta the DAS office and everyone is blowing it up9bigger from when the blew up the church sex scandles )because its good publicity and they sell lots of posts! guilty onb all 60counts????? that almost never happens in court(unless your a jew 1 so all you bashers sit down a think for a moment whats wrong here ! its not that hes gonna get prison its that the rest of the other pedophiles are not getting prison because the DAS oofice doesnt get publicity with it THEY ARE USING ALL THE YIDDISH CASES TO BE ABLE TO BE IN THE NEWS AND A YEAR FROM NOW CHARLES HYNES WILL RUN FOR OOFFICE FOR SOMETHING OR RETIRE AND BE REMEMBERED THAT HE WAS THE BEST DA so we are all being used

The whole hoola baloo is thanks to satmer. THEY are the ones who organized the fundraiser and caused media attention. THEY are the ones who tried to bribe the victim with the proceeds of the fundraiser.

77

 Dec 11, 2012 at 06:23 PM thegreatone Says:

Reply to #68  
Anonymous Says:

when a rav gets a degree in criminology and the like so that they have even a slight understanding of this involved topic, then you can ask a rav your opinion. Until then there does not exist a "competent" rav on the matter anywhere.

I highly doubt you fit in the category of people to whom i addressed my comment.

78

 Dec 11, 2012 at 07:06 PM no more victims b'ezrat HaShem! Says:

Baruch HaShem.
I grew up in a chassidishe community- not satmar- but once my family voiced their difference of opinion regarding the chassidus....we had eggs thrown on our windows, fire trucks sent to our house, schools called "not to accept us children" (did they want us to go to public school?) shidduchim ruined..physical attacks, someone even threatened to kill us...and even tried! (at least tried to hurt us..they succeeded...).gossip at every step we took.....to this day- so many years later- the Rebbe's children and grandchildren walk around as if they own the world...in the meantime- every neighbor that got involved in the machlokes has since begged for forgiveness as many suffered tzaros....as did we...machlokes burns everyone- even innocent bystanders.
but the intimidation techniques is horrendous....oh and now that im exposed to the modern orthodox world- its the same thing...albeit different techniques...no egg throwing, but blackmailing, ostrasizing...gossip to no end...every society has major flaws....but as "the chosen nation"..."a light unto the nations" we must act better - at the very minimum- act in accordance to the laws of the country, Torah and morality.

79

 Dec 11, 2012 at 07:35 PM missyid Says:

A baal gaiva such as you (thegreatone) would think that wouldn't you? I am shomrei Torah umitzvos and highly educated. My father is a belzer chasid but mostly besides being raised Frum with chasidish minhagim, we were raised to be menchlich.

80

 Dec 11, 2012 at 08:41 PM Huh? Says:

Reply to #77  
thegreatone Says:

I highly doubt you fit in the category of people to whom i addressed my comment.

Because he's frum, but not a sycophant to guys with blue flowers on their coat?

81

 Dec 12, 2012 at 12:38 AM Shulem!! Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

ZSNYC Says: Says:
“ What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc? ”
If your neighbor had a break-in would you possibly tell him not to call 911?? Why are sex crimes any different?? Wake up and smell the coffee!!

82

 Dec 12, 2012 at 01:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

yes, that is correct - the government is telling you how to think, since you are obviously a dunce who cannot do it for himself.

Seriously? You suggest a person should not report a child molestation because it could later hurt a shidduch? then the govvernment needs to tell you what to do, because you are too stupid to know it yourself.

83

 Dec 12, 2012 at 01:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
EhrlicherYid Says:

Your'e all secular minded self hating people. Yes, there is some kind of problem, but it is not and it never was so bad. It's the press that loves to controversial stories and blow it up especially Jews and specificly on Chassidic jews, and you self hating people are hungry to buy hatred buy everything the press says. Shame on you all. B"H I'm proud to be chassidish, and it's a fact that the problem here isn't any worse than other places. In fact that we Jewish people frum people are the most educated to stay away from anything and everything that has to do with these kind of shmitz. It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave.
Now for all of you self-haters, I know that inside you, you are not happy with the way you look. So instead of looking with magnifier glass to find bad on people who are generaly mor frum than you, either be happy with the way you chose and let other people be better or try to improve yourself.

you apparently don't understand what the term "self-hating" (NOT "self hating") means, as is the case with many words you use.

These Jews are not self-hating as they don't hate themselves, they hate arrogant, self-rightewous pigs like you.

If you think that the chassidishe oilem doesn't cheat, steal, commit adultery and view porn, you are a naive little child.

84

 Dec 12, 2012 at 01:46 AM Avi Says:

Reply to #22  
thegreatone Says:

To all who say this is a new day you should also know that you cant know where this will lead us and whats next for the orthodox Jews.
Since when has it become that we yidden are willing to throw away the keys and throw other yidden in jail? Yes,molesting a child is a hanis crime but as yidden are we allowed to inform? I know its hard to understand what saying but we have a torah and we cant just act on emotions "oh he molested someone throw him in jail" who gives a heter for this?Yes,Mesira is still one of the biggest sin.

You can't just take a pesak written by a godal and apply it on each case.Sensitive matters like this must be asked on a case by case basis.
I just cant believe that frum yidden are happy that Weberman is going to prison for a very long time even if he did what he did.

My question and comment is ONLY for frum observant Jews

Saving a life is more important than any silly questions of "mesirah".

85

 Dec 12, 2012 at 12:50 PM ThinkReal Says:

Reply to #8  
ChareidiMan Says:

I think Satmar must take a good look at this and must act upon it. The attitude of myway or the highway is out the window, but even more than that. They must admit that indeed this is a big problem and it must be adressed.

I think Satmar will be surprised to see that DA Hynes is not our enemy, but our friend and he is looking out for the safety of the children

unfortunately, I had a court case myself, where I "DID" have evidence, and as a direct result, broke limbs...but the DA and the judges today depend on "the biggest liars - resembling only in the movies" -and the lies won over the truth!

86

 Dec 12, 2012 at 01:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #50  
Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38
I hear your point and its a valid point, The issue here is." who's accusing whom",Unfortunately i'm somewhat familiar with the party's here , No relation or any family to neither of'm, I just happen to live in this community and i know them both ,Her credibility is not sufficient for such a harsh punishment especially when there was so many inconsistency's. I'm fully for that if someone indeed molests a innocent child to deal with it and its probably not even called "Mesirah" the case here is not a innocent child at all that's the point ,you're probably a good Jew from somewhere in the 5 borough's , Would you have known the "Party's " Involved , you would've totally agreed with me,

I totally agree with you. who is SHE that her credibility was instantly accepted, almost blindly?

87

 Dec 12, 2012 at 01:11 PM from-here_to-there Says:

Reply to #73  
shredready Says:

maybe you want the da to charge them with crimes because of the crusades what is your point in addition with the church it is the church that hide the abuse not the whole community and the community was outraged at the Church leaders and supported the victims. that is simply not the case in the frum community. The victim get no support even when the community knows it is true.

Big diffidence

once again you can't see the truth for your hate. your claim is false. the whole worldwide community of Yidden do not (REPEAT - DO NOT) hide abusers and do not (repeat it again) threaten individuals who report abuse (either on their own behalf or on behalf of others). A small misguided sub-section (the supporters of the accused) of a sub-section (Satmar) of a sub-section (Chassidim) within Judaism acted in away that is antithetical to true Judaic values and you want to condemn all Torah True Jews for the acts of the few. Why do you only apply your all for one when it comes to Yidden and not when it comes to chistians and my assumption (although please prove me wrong) not when it comes to muslims either.

88

 Dec 12, 2012 at 01:32 PM ThinkReal Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

it is sick to say "SATMAR"
stupid
I'm commenting on Hynes just on the idea of naming SATMAR is silly
u could say this on anyone from satmar too secular and all in between
to keep on naming satmar in this whole issue because he happens to be Satmar is dumb

When I arrived to America, even though I had no connection to any chasidis, I davka chose and joined Satmar. I read up on many archives regarding the "moiser nefesh"
from the Satmar Rebbe Z"L , for the Heimishe Growth B"H in America, after the war, and a lot of credit is due. Please no bashing any chasidis here.

89

 Dec 12, 2012 at 01:50 PM Huh? Says:

Reply to #86  
Anonymous Says:

I totally agree with you. who is SHE that her credibility was instantly accepted, almost blindly?

I don't think fourteen hours of brutal cross examination regarding personal embarrassing facts over and over.
They tried to catch her in lies over and over, and they failed.
They tried to catch him in lies, and he failed over and over again.

90

 Dec 12, 2012 at 08:14 PM uberjude Says:

Reply to #6  
ZSNYC Says:

What a sick society we live in. Freedom of speech is long gone, now you're taking away fredom of thinking as well. The constitution fathers are rolling in their graves. Trust me that I'm in full support to prosecute the molestors to the fullest extent. But I can't stomach the gvm't telling me how to think. If I don't think that he/she should go to the DA for whatever reason. I'm nt allowed to tell/advise the victim not to go? For example if I feel its going to hurt them to do a shidduch etc?

You are free to think whatever you want; that doesn't mean you entitled to act on those thoughts. Perhaps instead of warning kids who have been raped not to go to the authorities for fear of hurting their chances for shidduchim, you should speak out against the attitudes of your community that would stigmatize children who have been raped. I think the Founding Fathers would approve.

91

 Dec 12, 2012 at 08:21 PM uberjude Says:

Reply to #65  
bkjew Says:

please dont take me the wrong way what i am going to write here !!!!!!!!!! all you bashers make it sound that the molestation is only going on in satmar ! i dont know if you realized last week a princable from a flatbush school got charrged with abusing 3 boys and noone talked about it(post had a small artticale becuase that guy doesnt have a big beard and curles ) sexual abuse happens everywhere and anybody that does ist should rot in jail but my problem is thta the DAS office and everyone is blowing it up9bigger from when the blew up the church sex scandles )because its good publicity and they sell lots of posts! guilty onb all 60counts????? that almost never happens in court(unless your a jew 1 so all you bashers sit down a think for a moment whats wrong here ! its not that hes gonna get prison its that the rest of the other pedophiles are not getting prison because the DAS oofice doesnt get publicity with it THEY ARE USING ALL THE YIDDISH CASES TO BE ABLE TO BE IN THE NEWS AND A YEAR FROM NOW CHARLES HYNES WILL RUN FOR OOFFICE FOR SOMETHING OR RETIRE AND BE REMEMBERED THAT HE WAS THE BEST DA so we are all being used

I have no particular issue with Satmar, but if members of the Satmar community are going to hold rallies in defense of an accused child molester, they can't go an cry about discrimination when people pay attention. I don't know what community this guy in Flatbush belonged to, and you know why/ Because they didn't hold a rally and fundraiser on his behalf. These are community issues, as opposed to individual issues, because the community insists on communalizing them, by stigmatizing the victim communally, or defending the accused communally. I think it fair to say that Satmar could get plenty of good press if instead of rallying around to protect accused molesters, they stigmatized them instead of their alleged victims.

92

 Dec 12, 2012 at 08:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
ShmuelG Says:

"It is very hard to swallow for the secular world how nice and modest the frum jews are dressed and behave."

I can't say this from any personal experience because I've never been involved in any such case in any capacity, and hope not to, ever! But common sense tells me you are right about one thing at least: regardless of the merits of the case itself, this out of proportion publicity is at least in part due to the goyim and secular so called jews knowing that we are better than them, and the way we dress make this knowledge too vivid for them.

"secular so called Jews?" Since when did a Yid stop being a Yid because they aren't frum? I think you need to read some mayses of the Berditchever--the greatest tzadikim are those who accept all Yidn, not those who reject them for not being frum enough.

93

 Dec 12, 2012 at 08:32 PM uberjude Says:

Reply to #57  
ShmuelG Says:

It is true that not all people who dress frum actually are. But the other side is also true: people who dress untznius never are.

Really? Then can I quit spending so much money on kosher meat and my kids' school tuition since I have been known to wear shorts on occasion exposing my hairy legs for all the world to see?

maybe you should quit paying attention to what people wear and start paying attention to what they do. Mitzvos ben adam l'chaveiro are higher than mitzvos ben adam l'Makom, so when I have to decide who is "frummer," a guy who eats a cheeseburger but will protect children from a molester, or a guy who makes sure his dishsoap has five hechshers but would let a molester walk free, I'm not sure I'd choose the latter.

94

 Dec 13, 2012 at 02:39 PM nileperch Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

There are some things the DA could not enforce if he wanted to. Check this out. A child reports abuse to a mandated reporter, and this becomes a police report and potential prosecution. The parents of the child who permitted this have several other children. No yeshiva in Brooklyn will accept these other children, amd they will be expelled from wherever they are. Inasmuch as yeshivos are private enterprises, they have the right to determine who attends and who does not. Of course, we are free to judge whether they are morally correct or not, but there is not a legal handle on this. The ostracisizing need not be frank harassment to be painful to the rest of the family. And it is wild to believe that this can be prosecuted. I'm no lawyer, B"H, but it is hard to believe that the courts will see a refusal to admit or continue a talmid in a yeshiva as a crime. The attitude is that there are other yeshivos, and that no one stops the family from patronizing another yeshiva.

So are u admitting that your community acts in a way that is against the Torah? where is the Chessed and compassion for the weak?

95

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