New York – Allegations of sexual abuse have surfaced at Yeshiva University, a 116-year-old institution known for its Modern Orthodox stance and its “Torah U’Maddah” philosophy.
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An investigative report by the Forward (http://bit.ly/Rra8B4) found that a number of students were repeatedly sexually abused by two staff members – identified as Talmud teacher Rabbi Macy Gordon and former high school principal Rabbi George Finkelstein – during the later part of the 1970s and early 1980s at the YU High School For Boys in Manhattan. Both men currently reside in Israel and deny any allegations of sexual misconduct.
According to YU’s former president and current chancellor, Norman Lamm, allegations of “improper sexual activity” involving students and staff members were resolved by asking the suspected perpetrators to leave their posts and seek employment elsewhere. Lamm said he did not recall any accusations brought against Gordon, but did recollect that Finkelstein was driven out in 1995 after reports surfaced that he inappropriately wrestled with students and became aroused while doing so. In Finkelstein’s case, he became the dean at a Florida school after leaving YU high school.
Law enforcement personnel were never notified, even when allegations of abuse emerged not only in the high school, but also at the college and graduate school levels, according to Lamm. “If it was an open-and-shut case, I just let [the staff member] go quietly. It was not our intention or position to destroy a person without further inquiry,” Lamm said. “My question was not whether to report to police but to ask the person to leave the job. This was before things of this sort had attained a certain notoriety. There was a great deal of confusion.”
Lamm further defended his lack of action by saying he was preoccupied at the time with YU’s precarious financial situation. “The question of homosexual relations by teachers or principals…was not that clear, and it was not that significant relative to other things that we were dealing with” at the time, Lamm said. “We were a sinking ship. We were very close to going into bankruptcy, and these were matters that occupied a great deal of my time.”
YU’s current president, Richard Joel, expressed surprise at the allegations, but said in a university statement that if the allegations were found to be true, they represented “heinous and inexcusable acts.” “The thought that such behavior may have occurred at our boys high school, or anywhere at this institution, at any time in its past is more than sufficient reason to express on behalf of the university my deepest, most profound regret,” Joel said.
Joel told the Forward he intends to investigate the accusations, and urged any student seeking counseling to contact [email protected].
Yeshiva University has released the following statement on their web site
Let the “see its not only by the chasidim” comments begin.
No one has claimed this does not exist at modern orthodox institutions. Look at the different approaches of the two “Joels”. Richard Joel will cooperate with the authorities and doesnt deny the possibility of such actions, while Kiryas Joel doesnt cooperate and brushes all allegations away.
Nu where are all the Satmar bashers?
Now lets hear what all the Chasidim bashers have to say… it happens by MO too. Will Hynes try to reach out to YU???
Yes the difference being that YU is NOT denying nor excusing their behavior. YU also did NOT look the other way nor support the accused. Even though the best thing is NOT to move him next door, that was what the Rabbonim thought was best at the time when things were kept quiet. Today, that things have been brought out in the open, and Rabbonim have agreed that a molester is a Rodef, YU has taken a different stand. It is truly refreshing that YU is standing out in light apologizing and NOT denying, currently acting responsibly as a role model for others, asking for information from students and not shunning anyone who would come forward. Satmar and others should learn a lesson here.
Asking them to leave is one thing, stopping them from working in education is quiet another. That should have been done too.
Here we go again. Although I’m surprised at Rabbi Lamm’s openness, bearing in mind his obvious mishandling of the situation. It is true, however, that 30-40 years ago people weren’t clued in to abuse the way we are now.
Chill out everyone, the bigger question is, Will the Satmar people even care if the YU people go to jail? or are they not “real” jews like Weberman, so its no big deal.
No one questioned the court when Yegudin was sentenced 2 weeks ago, because he is not a chusid, so it makes sense that he did it, but Weberman, is just impossible.
Very sad
The obvious question is why didn’t Lamm reported to the Police? His statement “The question of homosexual relations by teachers or principals…was not that clear, and it was not that significant relative to other things that we were dealing with” that shows lack of judgment, safety should be first priority, he should be fired.
Let see the same standards here, unfortunately not – they are not satmars.
It is so sad to read some of the comments by people that have their hats on fire.
1. No one said that it happens only by chassidim, and no one is trying to pick on chassidim. It is merely the fact that you are trying to HIDE the fact that it happens by chassidim too.
2. If you would open your eyes and realize that this is not done to smear chassidim but to help our little kinderlech live a normal life, you would realize that it is not a personal attack on chassidim
3. Furthermore, If one black man is a murderer, that does not mean that every black man is a murderer. Same here, If the community would not react with such dumb statements to the media, the world would’ve not reacted this way either. We are the one that made the big mess by still saying non sense on NBC TV and prime other TV stations, like “I went to yeshiva with him, he could not have done it”
There is a way of dealing with actions whether you believe it or not, but the way we reacted, was definitely not the way
Rabbi Lamm needs to be accountable if any of the people he “let go” committed the crime elsewhere. No different than the Penn State scandal. If you or your child were abused by a former Y.U. employee I’m sure your pretty upset. Having moiney problems is no excuse not to protect boys attending other institutions and yeshivas.
Sure Y.U. took action. The only problem is that this action caused hundreds of others to be abused in other institutions by not notifying them. Why do some people feel obliged to defend Y.U. or the m.o.’s.
What’s wrong for the goose is wrong for the gander.
Here we go again! Blaming, slandering, bashing our own brothers! WHO CARES if they bashed the chasids, Who cares if anybody suggested it doesn’t happen by the mo.
Guys! WERE ALL YIDDIN! we should not gloat, announce to the secular press, or to any press for the same reason, about another brothers downfall! Does it really help if I go party after hearing this unfortunate saga (that is for each and every yid!). Well the press is definitely partying on each (even) allegation of misconduct. They pounce on every problem in the jewish society (every fringe even), and proclaim, “They are worse than you thought.” Bros, you think that the non jewish person walks and says “those satmars or YUs are expletive”? they don’t differentiate bet. the brooklynite the londonite or the antwerps. nor do they differentiate bet how modern or secular you are! They say “the jew is ………”, “see I told you the jew is the problem to everything!”
Now, please tell me. WHO WINS! WHO LOSES! We’re all in the same boat. lets stop stabbing our other foot all the time! Sinas chinam is dripping blood from our SINGLE hearts.
The 80’s were a different time. People thought big glasses were stylish, etc.
This cannot be true…I know Rav Gordon, shlita in the 1970s and he was a big tzadik and yirai shamayim. He was close with rav zaks and other big rabbonim and was under the constant oversight of the mashgiach ruchani for all of the YU campus in Washington Heights. This is simply an attempt by the Satmar to deflect attention to the MO kehillah and say “everyone does it”.
if one reads the whole article it is much more devastating to YU and also more recent .
look its a different world. no doubt if this happened today lamm would approach it differently but twenty years ago, for better or worse, this was how it was considered to be handled best. its better than letting them stay as if nothing happened, which is why satmar has all the probelms they have today.
of course sadly abuse happened everywhere and it seems all institution. the reason why the ultra Orthodox gets bashed by the media is not that abuse happens but the way the community reacts .
In most cases it is the institution that acted or acts poorly . however in the Orthodox community it is not only the institution but the community itself that acts poorly. In no other community is their such hate for the accuser and support for the accused or even when convicted such hate for teh victim and support for the molester.
while some will argue weberman is not guilty, maybe, but show me a case one case where the community rallied around a victim when the abuser was a yid
I was abused at YU’s MTA s high school in 1969.
The abuser was a smicha student.
I was told last year by a rosh yeshiva the abuser was known to be a strange person, but in those years people were not oriented to thinking about issues of abuse. Of course if something had happened in public like having sexual activity in the entrance to the yeshiva it would have been acted upon the point of view that should not be done,period.
But the sensitivity and awareness of this issue was simply not on the radar screen of people at that time.
I believe my abuser is dead. I have only found one reference to him on the Internet. He helped edit a book printed by YU way back then.
Instinctively I stayed away from George Finkelstein. He gave me the entrance interview for MTA. I felt extremely uncomfortable around him.
I don’t believe Finkelstein went to Florida but he did end up in Yerushalayim as the director of the Great Synagogue. From what i have been told The Great Synagogue was made aware of the allegations but did nothing about it.
the main question is how would they handle it today?
Did you notice that NO ONE AT YU villified a VICTIM?!?
What’s wring with mishkav zachor?
YU has a Gay/Lesbian club.
They’re in favor of it
I think we all know that if grave cover up of abuses is discovered, YU communities will be much open about it especially today; there will be no denial; there will be open dialogue and questions asked. The buck will stop somewhere and leaders will be held much more accountable today than in any Chassidic community. Victims will be embraced and listened to, not smeared and shrugged off from the get-go. In Chassidic world the approach is completely opposite. Within this decade, YU was one of the first institutions that lead the way to start having dialogue on abuse in communities and how to address it. Not only that, YU with-in past several years was open on addressing other controversial issues affecting Jewish communities when it would be unheard of 20, 30, 40 years ago.
But the Chassidic world still wants to exist in “see no evil, hear no evil, shut up and move on.”
“We were a sinking ship. We were very close to going into bankruptcy, and these were matters that occupied a great deal of my time.”
Excuse me? Financial matters had priority over students being abused, which would inevitably lead to future molestations as a result of of these sick people simply being moved to different playgrounds? Perhaps, it’s time time to stop referring to YU as תורה ומדע, and start calling it תורה ומדוע?
I knew a guy when I went to Yeshiva’s High School who always claimed his Rabbi made him uncomfortable and we made fun of him. guess all those late nights for one on one “counseling” weren’t so great for poor Chaim afterall
The big difference is YU didn’t have a fund raiser for the abuser and the head Rabbi didn’t bash the victim big difference
For all of you who buy the lies from Nuchem Rosenberg don’t even read my comment.
Satmar if they find out a rebbe,bus driver or anyone else molested a child or there is only a rumor about it they DO take care on it.They always took care even in the 1970s.
Activists may name names that this or that rebbe is a molester who still teaches:bogus,baloney they do take care on every single problem.
Just becuase activists (who one by one of them are not really people that i wish on anyone’s kids) decided that a molester belongs in prison doesn’t mean they don’t take care on this problem. Most frum yidden including Satmar doesn’t think they belong in prison
And guess what? DA Hynes knows full well that its being taken care of but for some reason he caved in tot he thugs and decided to go in an all out war.Hopefully Mr.Hynes will cool down becuase he is a good man who knows the community and respects our values he understands better then anyone the concept of Mesira.
The hypocrisy of those defending YU in this case is astounding. The chasidim can do no right and YU can do no wrong. What do years make a difference???? Did people then think it was OK?? If so stop going after the molesters from years back! You have always argued that the enablers are just as guilty. Sherree in particular has lost all credibility!
I don’t believe these allegations for the simple reason that YU doesn’t believe in m’tzitza b’peh.
The real issue here is Chancellor’s excuse and rationale for not protecting his students and notifying the police:
“The question of homosexual relations by teachers or principals…was not that clear, and it was not that significant relative to other things that we were dealing with” at the time, Lamm said. “We were a sinking ship. We were very close to going into bankruptcy, and these were matters that occupied a great deal of my time.”
(A) Once and for all Chancellor: Homosexuality was not the problem, sexual abuse was the problem.
(B) “Fundraising, sorry, no time to protect students from abuse by faculty. Really not a priority,” is something for which to do some serious teshuvah.
I don’t necessarily think the current chancellor should be fired for what he did then, but he should sure be fired for his comments now.
Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?
Check out Rabbi Joel’s statement today apologizing and offering suppport for the victims and detailing the programs they now have in effect (- the acts alleged were over 30 years ago
Bottom line, the timing of this bombshell is very much in place, comes to show us that the earth is all one, and same things are happening every where, so let’s not bash on YU nor the chasidish or yeshivish circles, time for achdus and being dan every yid l’kaf zechus.
My business was failing, so I didn’t really notice when my daughter was being mauled by a bear. I was really worried about getting her the latest Lands End sweater. I couldn’t really worry about whether she’d be alive to wear it. Lands End was all over me for payment of amounts due.
There’s another story here that seems to have gone over everybody’s head.
While the story “if true ” is shameful, one can always count on the Forward to dig up 30-40 year old dirt on the orthodox. I don’r recall any screaming headlines when the secular Maddof was nailed. The editors of the Jewish Week must be kicking themselves for not digging up this story first !
you all trying to comfort your selves! y u busy with it? its not 4 a person with a clear record and mind?!
the answer is that you all are in the mud
George Finkelstein and Macy Gordon were the 2 guys that made life miserable for me in high school at MTA. While there was absolutely no sexual abuse in my case, (unless you would characterize Finklestein’s always feeling the back of my shirt to see if I was wearing tzizit–a religious garment), they verbally abused me and meted out punishments and suspensions that were unwarranted when I challenged their unreasonableness. After graduating yeshiva university high school in 1971, I didn’t want to be associated with anything Jewish for 15 years. Let them get what they deserve–Austin Freireich, JD,MBA,CFP—– MTA class of 1971
These allegations and behaviors go back more than 30 years, with all of the players gone and YU is having this cast on their plate in 2012. At the time, when little was known about this phenomenon, things could have been handled differently than they would be today.
YU should be commended for taking responsibility and offering support making its resources available to anyone who needs them. Plus, they have a digital presence which allows the institution to communicate in plain English quickly to a broad audience as to their official position, without relying on degrees of separation and global hearsay.
Plus, as someone said, no one is blaming the victim or honoring the alleged perpetrators.
Let’s hope that the victims receive whatever support that they need, even so many years later and that due process takes place for the accused.
Not to detract from inexcusable behavior, in those days it was common to try to deal with it by removing the person, if that. Most institutions just chose to ignore allegations and allowed the abuser to remain on staff.
It’s most interesting that most alleged abusers ran away to Israel and most likely did more harm while living in peace.
Seems like there is a competition between these two groups to see who will come clean and who will support the abusers. I’m happy Conservative Jews aren’t effected with this.
“1995 after reports surfaced that he inappropriately wrestled with students and became aroused while doing so”
I guess you have some evidence…..while Weberman……no evidence at all
I know people say that their are many more victims….while would no one come out? Because no matter how big of a jew hater you are. you still know that one above knows the truth unless you are a Kraus – Ruchman einikel!
I think that to understand the mentality back then, these types of acts were looked upon as being bad like eating treif, but not as being harmful to anybody. It was viewed as a failing bein odom lamakom, but not bein odom lachaveiro. Nobody imagined the hurt it caused.
I also think that people assumed that if one was fired for doing this, he would be so embarrassed that this would be punishment enough, and he would definitely learn a lesson and never repeat it in a new job.
There was no reporting protocol back then, and no understanding of the rate of recidivism. I am not justifying this, but simply trying to understand the mindset.
I’ll try this again but polished up for VIN’s censors. Why does a situation like this have to be turned into a Chassidish v MO or Satmar v MO etc? Why are there so many attempts to prove that what has occurred at YU isn’t as bad as what happens among Satmar? We are all Yidden….many of the talkbacks are nauseating!
Allow me to sum up. Those who hate all but Chareidim….The mos did it too. The mos did it too. Not a great argument as to the sexual abuse of children and the actions of some in covering up the abuse (am I being too tame?) in the Chareidi community.
The modern Orthodox community should be chagrined by the non action of some in their leadership. The answer that atleast they didn’t blame the victim is a positive. There is still more to be done.
To my Chareidi friends I say: join the mos in the view that a wrong has been done to some, perhaps many. That would be a starting point for you also.
There is an old joke from Europe that is appropriate here. A certain young rav was hired to be the rav of a small town. No sooner did he move his family in, than the shamash knocked on his door and said, “Rebbe, Ploni just died, and as Rav you are expected to give a hesped at the levaya.”
Since the Rav was new and hardly knew anyone, he started asking around about Reb Ploni so he could give the hesped. Problem was no one had anything good to say about him. “He was a terrible miser, never gave any tsedaka,” said one person. “He had a terrible temper, beat his wife and children,” said another. “He was lax in mitzvos, and only came to shul on Shabbos, when he spend most of the time talking,” said a third.
Disheartened, the Rav came to the levaya with nothing to say. So he got up and said, “We are here to give the hesped of R. Ploni. Does anyone here have anything good to say about him?” Then one person spoke up from the back, “Yeah! I knew his brother, and he was much worse!”
Saying A is worse than B may be true, but it is not saying very much.
You butchered the joke. The last paragraph should read, the Rabbi got up at the levaya and said we are not going home until somebody has something positive to say, I don’t care if we stay here all day. Finally, someone in the back calls out, His brother was worse.
I just read the entire article in the Forward, I must have only read it here and not the article in its entirety. If the allegations are TRUE then the apology is quite empty and more should be done. I agree with Marci Hamilton that Rabbi Blau should head up the investigation. I urge any and all victims or anyone with knowledge of the abuse to contact both Marci and Rabbi Blau with information. The more information gathered in one arena the better it will serve to find a path to the truth. If the allegations are TRUE then YU has an obligation to follow the path of these two pedophiles and make sure that they are not given any kovod, don’t sit on any Jewish or Educational Boards and have the public warned of their inclinations. The YU would have to share the information they received with the Young Israel and make sure they are removed from their current positions.
It might have been the custom of the time to quietly remove someone form the facility and not go to the police, but today we understand that a pedophile is a Rodef and we have an obligation to protect our children from them. YU cannot undo the past but they can own up and do what they can now.