“ Since when is Silverman a Sfardishe name? Look at the retzuos. ”

“ Fools. If the frum would have left them alone when they started the monthly gathering would never have grown to include so many women and might have ended with a whimper after a couple of years, maybe less.

We truly are our own worst enemies, r"l, way too often. ”

“ Fools. If the frum would have left them alone when they started the monthly gathering would never have grown to include so many women and might have ended with a whimper after a couple of years, maybe less.

We truly are our own worst enemies, r"l, way too often. ”

“ Since when is Silverman a Sfardishe name? Look at the retzuos. ”

“ Sick people looking for attention-nnnnnnnn ”

“ "Women off the Wall" is more appropriate. Shouldn't they first do mitzvos incumbant upon women and if they feel it necessary to wear tefilin do it in private? Or are they just looking for publicity? ”

“ probably because its a slippery slope issue. if you concede to allow them to lay tfilin and hold quorum, next they will want the mechitza down, or to allow egalitarian minyanim. do you want to daven mincha at the kosel and have a woman be shliach tzibbur? ”

“ wrong or right should this be criminal? ”

“ The battle over the talis is a microcosm of the battle over all of yahadus. Buses in Haifa run on shabbos and they want to make the rest of the country like that. More and more businesses are open on shabbos. Treif restaurants abound. Women can wear "female" taleisim at the Kosel, and of course in Reform and Conservative temples in Israel they can do whatever they want. This is one of the last vestiges of ensuring Torah values in eretz yisroel. ”

“ probably because its a slippery slope issue. if you concede to allow them to lay tfilin and hold quorum, next they will want the mechitza down, or to allow egalitarian minyanim. do you want to daven mincha at the kosel and have a woman be shliach tzibbur? ”

“ They should call themselves "Attention Freaks of the Western Wall Plaza." The Kotel goes very underground and is part of a system that also includes the Southern Wall, which was designated for this group as their own special place to hold their services. Anat Hoffman refused the Southern Wall location, saying "I want to see and be seen!" What does being "seen" and "seeing others" have to do with praying to Hashem! This is "performance art" not davvening.

If all frum Yidden all went to the Southern Wall and totally abandoned the Kotel Plaza and left it completely for this group of women, then they would insist on being given "their" designated place.

It's all about being the center of attention. ”

“ Crazy women, if you like so much god start first obseving shabbos & then do othe mitzvos, take them to a doctor ASAP ”

“ Misguided, perhaps, but how do all the nasty personal attacks posted here any better?

They think they are getting schar for doing mitsvos which Hashem never commanded them to do (who knows, maybe they do earn some schar, I'm not His bookkeeper) and many here seem to think they will get schar for sinas chinan Hashem never asked of them. ”

“ Instead of the Israeli police detaining, and possibly arresting that group, why don't they do something about the beggars who make a living, by harassing people davening at the Kotel. Even though it is ostensibly not permitted, the authorities look the other way, and tolerate the constant barrage of one schnorrer after another. People should be able to daven in peace and tranquility at the Kotel, without being harassed by those characters. Wouldn't everyone agree? ”

“ Maybe if some of the smart commentators on this site would invite these women over for a shabbos you would help them more than by just speaking badly about them ”

“ wrong or right should this be criminal? ”

“ What's crazy about them?
They're getting exactly what they want: More publicity and more sympathy for their cause.
They are succeeding at making the Orthodox establishment look ridiculous.

This is exactly what they are trying to achieve.

Now, to help them with that and have them arrested in front of a million photographers, THAT'S crazy. ”

“ they are sick because they agree with your practices?

I think you are sick, because you put so many "n's" at the end of your sentence!

Just as sensible a conclusion! ”

“ What's crazy about them?
They're getting exactly what they want: More publicity and more sympathy for their cause.
They are succeeding at making the Orthodox establishment look ridiculous.

This is exactly what they are trying to achieve.

Now, to help them with that and have them arrested in front of a million photographers, THAT'S crazy. ”

“ Lets start with the basics? Is the Torah Kadosh to them? Do they believe in Kedusha in any form? How do they prepare themselves before donning Tefillin or even touching a Torah? Do they even wash their hands when waking up, do they even say Modeh Ani? Do they immerse in the mikveh? Do they purify themselves in any way to prepare themselves for approaching the Kedusha of the Torah? What does the Torah and the mitzvah of reading the Torah and Tefillin mean?

If they want to don Tefillin and approach the Torah, shouldn't they be prepared maybe by covering their bodies appropriately? Would you walk in front of the Pope that way? They would never get into the Vatican dressed the way they are. Lets just be realistic for a minute. If you say you have the right to do these things, lets talk about that right, it comes with a price. The price is "respect and awe". ”

“ Lets start with the basics? Is the Torah Kadosh to them? Do they believe in Kedusha in any form? How do they prepare themselves before donning Tefillin or even touching a Torah? Do they even wash their hands when waking up, do they even say Modeh Ani? Do they immerse in the mikveh? Do they purify themselves in any way to prepare themselves for approaching the Kedusha of the Torah? What does the Torah and the mitzvah of reading the Torah and Tefillin mean?

If they want to don Tefillin and approach the Torah, shouldn't they be prepared maybe by covering their bodies appropriately? Would you walk in front of the Pope that way? They would never get into the Vatican dressed the way they are. Lets just be realistic for a minute. If you say you have the right to do these things, lets talk about that right, it comes with a price. The price is "respect and awe". ”

“ I wish that were the case, but unfortunately they are NOT interested in Shabbos nor Kashrus. They are interested in choosing their own so called mitzvos and doing only them in the fashion that they choose whether they are "kosher" or not. ”

“ Tallis and pants. These women are seriously messed up. ”

“ I'm nauseous, seeing them in Tefillin. Who do they think they are, Bruria? ”

“ "Who do they think they are, Bruria?"

No, that is incorrect! There is no מקור anywhere for ברוריה having worn תפילין. Perhaps, you are thinking of עירובין צ"ו ע"א, wherein מיכל בת שאול wore תפילין:

דתניא מיכל בת כושי היתה מנחת תפילין ולא מיחו בה חכמים.

Post Script: There is also no מקור for the daughters of רש"י having worn תפילין, even though so many say so. ”

“ Misguided, perhaps, but how do all the nasty personal attacks posted here any better?

They think they are getting schar for doing mitsvos which Hashem never commanded them to do (who knows, maybe they do earn some schar, I'm not His bookkeeper) and many here seem to think they will get schar for sinas chinan Hashem never asked of them. ”

“ How could Michal Bas Shaul wear Tefilin, if the tradition of Hanochas Tefilin didn't start until the middle of Bayis Sheni. ”

“ I used to teach kids from backgrounds other than Orthodox. We had a young lady over for Shabbat, who wanted to wear a kippah and Tallit to our (Orthodox) shul. No one made a fuss, she sat with my wife and daughter (who obviously did not wear kippot or Tallitot).

Fast forward ten years. She is now engaged to a modern Orthodox young man that she met in college. She will keep Shabbat and (probably) the other mitzvot. Her daughter (IMH) will not wear the Tallit.

What would any one have accomplished by bashing her Tallit and Kippah? ”

“ I am not defending them, only saying that they are achieving hteir goal, which is to make the Orthodox establishment look ridiculous.

Although your comparison with what would happen at the Vatican might very well be appropriate, what counts is PERCEPTION -- and in the eyes of everyone other than most Orthodox, what is being done to these women looks insane.

Now, if they were actually doing some sort of serious transgression and violating the holiness in a serious way, then one might say that the price is worth it.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Chillul HASHEM caused by arresting them is far worse than what the consequence would be if htey would just be left alone.

As for judging their holiness, there is no need for them to go to mikveh before approaching the kotel, putting on tefillin, or touching a torah scroll. ”

“ Do you know this? Have you actually spoken to any of them? And even if that is true, is your approach the same that the Lubavitcher Rebbe would have taken with them, or would he have tried to be mekarev them even though their minds were closed? ”

“ Thanks for giving voice to reason. Personally, I wouldn't put on a tallis if I didn't have a tradition to do so, but if this is how they seek closeness with the Allmighty, why are we qualified to dismiss them as heretics? Who are they hurting? The orthodox jewish sense of religious propriety? More importantly, as others have stated, how can this be considered unlawful behavior in a democratic state like Israel? ”

“ who asked you to daven with her minyan?

and since when does the Kosel belong to you? if chassidhe minyanim object to you coming in short sleeves (men, of course) and want you to only daven there wearing a suit with a jacket and a black hat, are you okay with that?

who makes the rules, and why is it your problem what other people do? I personally thi nk it is ridiculous, but I recognize the right of others to be conservative or reform (even if I find those practices pointless), and so should you respect them. ”

“ No need to go to the mikveh before going to the kotel, but i beg to differ before touching tefillen or the Torah scroll which should never be contaminated through nidah! ”

“ No need to go to the mikveh before going to the kotel, but i beg to differ before touching tefillen or the Torah scroll which should never be contaminated through nidah! ”

“ No need to go to the mikveh before going to the kotel, but i beg to differ before touching tefillen or the Torah scroll which should never be contaminated through nidah! ”

“ "How could Michal Bas Shaul wear Tefilin, if the tradition of Hanochas Tefilin didn't start until the middle of Bayis Sheni."

May I suggest that you debate this point with the גמרא in עירובין צ"ו ע"א, which states that she did wear תפילין. ”

“ "Who do they think they are, Bruria?"

No, that is incorrect! There is no מקור anywhere for ברוריה having worn תפילין. Perhaps, you are thinking of עירובין צ"ו ע"א, wherein מיכל בת שאול wore תפילין:

דתניא מיכל בת כושי היתה מנחת תפילין ולא מיחו בה חכמים.

Post Script: There is also no מקור for the daughters of רש"י having worn תפילין, even though so many say so. ”

“ They have an agenda, and their agenda has nothing to do with Torah and mitzvos. Their agenda is to be mevayesh the olam of Orthodox Jewery!! ”

“ Thanks for giving voice to reason. Personally, I wouldn't put on a tallis if I didn't have a tradition to do so, but if this is how they seek closeness with the Allmighty, why are we qualified to dismiss them as heretics? Who are they hurting? The orthodox jewish sense of religious propriety? More importantly, as others have stated, how can this be considered unlawful behavior in a democratic state like Israel? ”

“ Sorry, but there is no such thing.
Neither tefillin nor a sefer Torah are "contaminated" by being touched by a niddah.

There is no problem with this at all.

To think otherwise is a common misperception, but a misperception nevertheless. ”

“ Thanks for giving voice to reason. Personally, I wouldn't put on a tallis if I didn't have a tradition to do so, but if this is how they seek closeness with the Allmighty, why are we qualified to dismiss them as heretics? Who are they hurting? The orthodox jewish sense of religious propriety? More importantly, as others have stated, how can this be considered unlawful behavior in a democratic state like Israel? ”

“ who asked you to daven with her minyan?

and since when does the Kosel belong to you? if chassidhe minyanim object to you coming in short sleeves (men, of course) and want you to only daven there wearing a suit with a jacket and a black hat, are you okay with that?

who makes the rules, and why is it your problem what other people do? I personally thi nk it is ridiculous, but I recognize the right of others to be conservative or reform (even if I find those practices pointless), and so should you respect them. ”

“ no,that is inded the halacha. ”

“ no,that is inded the halacha. ”

“ When I visit Israel I make it my business to be at the kosel on rosh chodesh to yell at these self hating kooks.l yelled at them that six million died because of your anti Jewish behavior and soon the kosel will be given back to the Arabs as well due to their disgraceful behavior. A police without a yarmulka came over and told me I agree with you. That was a pleasant surprise ”

“ When I visit Israel I make it my business to be at the kosel on rosh chodesh to yell at these self hating kooks.l yelled at them that six million died because of your anti Jewish behavior and soon the kosel will be given back to the Arabs as well due to their disgraceful behavior. A police without a yarmulka came over and told me I agree with you. That was a pleasant surprise ”

“ No need to go to the mikveh before going to the kotel, but i beg to differ before touching tefillen or the Torah scroll which should never be contaminated through nidah! ”

“ I stand corrected!! :) Although you're right, this is something I remember being told as a child. Thank you for the clarification. ”

“ When I visit Israel I make it my business to be at the kosel on rosh chodesh to yell at these self hating kooks.l yelled at them that six million died because of your anti Jewish behavior and soon the kosel will be given back to the Arabs as well due to their disgraceful behavior. A police without a yarmulka came over and told me I agree with you. That was a pleasant surprise ”

“ When I visit Israel I make it my business to be at the kosel on rosh chodesh to yell at these self hating kooks.l yelled at them that six million died because of your anti Jewish behavior and soon the kosel will be given back to the Arabs as well due to their disgraceful behavior. A police without a yarmulka came over and told me I agree with you. That was a pleasant surprise ”

“ It's not like these women are extra religious and keep all the other 612 Mitzvos and follow all other Jewish laws then they come marching for their rights to" nebech be able to keep the 613th mitzva to wear a Talis.
It seems that their entire religion is just about "womens rights". ”

“ Instead of the Israeli police detaining, and possibly arresting that group, why don't they do something about the beggars who make a living, by harassing people davening at the Kotel. Even though it is ostensibly not permitted, the authorities look the other way, and tolerate the constant barrage of one schnorrer after another. People should be able to daven in peace and tranquility at the Kotel, without being harassed by those characters. Wouldn't everyone agree? ”

“ When I visit Israel I make it my business to be at the kosel on rosh chodesh to yell at these self hating kooks.l yelled at them that six million died because of your anti Jewish behavior and soon the kosel will be given back to the Arabs as well due to their disgraceful behavior. A police without a yarmulka came over and told me I agree with you. That was a pleasant surprise ”

“ It's not like these women are extra religious and keep all the other 612 Mitzvos and follow all other Jewish laws then they come marching for their rights to" nebech be able to keep the 613th mitzva to wear a Talis.
It seems that their entire religion is just about "womens rights". ”

“ When I visit Israel I make it my business to be at the kosel on rosh chodesh to yell at these self hating kooks.l yelled at them that six million died because of your anti Jewish behavior and soon the kosel will be given back to the Arabs as well due to their disgraceful behavior. A police without a yarmulka came over and told me I agree with you. That was a pleasant surprise ”