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Brooklyn, NY - Chasidic Scolds Put Williamsburg Merchants In Tough Spot

Published on: February 22, 2013 10:16 AM
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Brooklyn, NY - Under increasing pressure from local modesty squads to monitor the dress of their patrons, local Williamsburg merchants now find themselves unwitting participants in a clash between anti-discrimination laws and freedom of religion.

The NEW YORK DAILY NEWS (http://nydn.us/13srqNM) reported Thursday that merchant newcomers to Williamsburg’s Satmar Hasidic enclave are seeking legal advice on how best to deal with threats of boycotts and intimidation coming from a neighborhood group known as Va’ad Hatznius—-the ‘modesty patrol.’

According to the DAILY NEWS, Va’ad Hatznius was at it again yesterday, blanketing the area in and around a new women’s clothing store at 100 Lee Ave. with flyers calling for a boycott and a spontaneous afternoon protest.

The charges leveled by Va’ad Hatznius? The store’s big windows make the sight of women holding up dresses and picking through clothing easily accessible from the street.

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Va’ad Hatznuis’ influence is felt throughout the neighborhood merchant community.

“It’s not right,” said Moshe Spira, manager of Grill on Lee, a sandwich shop a block down from the dress shop. “The man and the woman, trying to make a living for them and their family opened just days ago.”

“When we opened the store,” continued Spira, “they made a protest saying, ‘Don’t eat here.’ We were the first fast food restaurant in the neighborhood. They were saying men and women can sit together and are on the line together.”

Another merchant, Victor Klein, owner of Ice Cream House on Bedford Ave., said bearded men visited him one month after he opened demanding he put up signs telling customers how to dress.

Klein ultimately sought legal advice, asking how he could follow their orders without being sued discrimination.

These incidents have prompted a probe by New York City’s Commission on Human Rights.

“It’s a new kind of discrimination case,” said Cliff Mulqueen, the commission’s head council. “There’s a clash between anti-discrimination laws and freedom of religion.”


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1

 Feb 22, 2013 at 10:25 AM ChareidiMan Says:

This is a perfect example of how important education is. These bums are uneducated and are doctored to think one way and it’s disgusting.
One of my employees (Non Jewish) told me this morning, and I quote: “These people make the Taliban look good”

This non-sense action has to stop and someone with real authority has to speak up, it is out of hand. Are you telling me that there is not ONE Rabbi with a little brain that can stop this? Can start educating these people that we live in the USA and there is something called “The Law”?

These action only bring more and more anti-Semitism and it never ends well

2

 Feb 22, 2013 at 10:38 AM shlomogabai Says:

Interesting, the article points out freedom of religion, accepting that for some (even if only a minority) its part of their religion.

3

 Feb 22, 2013 at 10:39 AM :) Says:

can someone pleae translate the letter? :)
i saw it all over the streets of williamsburg yesterday but i didnt know what it was

4

 Feb 22, 2013 at 10:41 AM MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

5

 Feb 22, 2013 at 10:41 AM Mandel Says:

look on the positive side; this free advertisements brings customers....

6

 Feb 22, 2013 at 10:44 AM rebbe123 Says:

Reply to #1  
ChareidiMan Says:

This is a perfect example of how important education is. These bums are uneducated and are doctored to think one way and it’s disgusting.
One of my employees (Non Jewish) told me this morning, and I quote: “These people make the Taliban look good”

This non-sense action has to stop and someone with real authority has to speak up, it is out of hand. Are you telling me that there is not ONE Rabbi with a little brain that can stop this? Can start educating these people that we live in the USA and there is something called “The Law”?

These action only bring more and more anti-Semitism and it never ends well

are you charedi? like your cover name says! don't we live in a country where there's freedom of speech? educating? what? whom? we live there we have our children if we want to live a Manhattan lifestyle then you right. but we still have to follow above all the rule of the Torah! are we going to Manhattan or any other place to tell ppl what to do? or we we want our neighborhood clean?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! is also for the frum community

7

 Feb 22, 2013 at 10:56 AM a mother of 3 girls Says:

we all must go out and show support to this new Pastel store!
they have a few locations, I was at their Boro Park store on 13 ave by 41st and they have beautiful stuff!!!!

8

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:00 AM wmsg.boy Says:

There is nothing that any govt. agency can do to stop them harrasing ...Vaad Haznios is not a group affiliated with any Cong or Yeshiva in Willamsburgh or Boro Park or any other orthodox community.
Those vaad members are frum men and lets NOT forget what satmere rebbe said ..
FRUM stand for Feel Rishes Unvynig Mitzvahs...
They have no office or address where you can have those people brough to justice..
They have their meetings in the Mikveh and decide who is the next target ....
But not being associated or affiliated with any Mosdos i believe the Rabunim are very happy with their work because Keeven Deshoske applies here..You never see Der Blatt or Der Yid condemming their work ...
They publish their flyers at any printer and they demonstarte in front of the stores who violates their belief...USA is Freedom of SPEECH so there they GO.....

9

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:02 AM YYYguy Says:

Yes Tznius is part of the religion but they have taken it way too far. Nobody is forcing them to shop in any particular store but they can't stop others.

10

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:07 AM a friend of the owner Says:

#4 This is a CHILDREN'S store!! They are getting in ladies.. but so far it is not in yet and are planning to put in the lower level of the store.
If these perverts would mean it l'shem shumaiyim, they would approach the owners and ask them to cover the windows.. but instead they bring more attention (which the owners are thrilled) to PASTEL store.

11

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:16 AM Phineas Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

Why not put up an announcement that men should walk by only on the other side of the street so that women can have a place to shop that is pleasant, well lit, and where they can see the merchandise? Why put the onus on the merchants that cater to the women. Why can't the men adjust for once?

12

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:20 AM a pastel fan Says:

did you check out their collection?? NOBODY has such a variety! Finally a store where you can dress your children tzniusdig and fashionable! and for those of you that think women holding children's dresses is porn...GET A LIFE!

13

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:23 AM monalisa Says:

While I agree that this is disgusting, it is easily fixable. Just hang up some pretty sheer curtains that will hide these obsessed thugs from the ladies trying to shop! An added bonus is that these losers won't be able to see in.

I will go to Williamsburg to shop there. It's important we show solidarity with business owners. I feel very sorry for decent people in WB who have to live with the Taliban or who are trying to make a living. The Chassidic Taliban are sick & depraved.

14

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:23 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

This rant makes me believe women customers are not merely trying on dresses. Perhaps they are trying on lingerei or other provocative garments in front of 10 foot windows... For goodness sakes, get a life. Preferably one that is based in halacha.

15

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:28 AM Anon Ibid Opcit Says:

There's no Freedom of Religion issue here. Women are free to dress according to Charedi customs. Nobody is forcing them into short-shorts and halter tops. The local Mutwas, excuse me "va'ad ha tznius" is free to be obsessed with ankles and go into paroxysms at a stray hair.

But freedom of religion doesn't mean you have the right to force others to live by your beliefs or intimidate and coerce them if they don't want to bow down to you.

16

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:30 AM monalisa Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

Perhaps someone should tell these repressed men NOT TO LOOK. Give them burqa hoods so all they can do is look down or straight ahead. It's not their business.

17

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Mixed seating? In KJ restaurants they have one section for men alone, one for women alone, and one for families. Why can't grill on lee do the same?

18

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:32 AM gevold Says:

I passed Pastel store on Lee avenue the night there was this pashkavil. There windows were already covered. I don't see the problem since on the upper level there's only CHILDREN'S robes.. if these self promoted animals mean it l'shem sh'maiyim then why couldn't the 'vaad' speak to the owners first? causing such a chilel hashem for the goyim! That's much worse than women holding children's robes!

19

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:32 AM Professor Says:

Is what you are saying true? Can you see women trying on dresses frin the front window? Can u see them viewing if it fits. I doubt it.
What difference does it make if a storefront glass goes up 20 feet? The tallest person that I know is, say, 6'2"? So if the window will be only 6 feet is it good than? So what is the limit?
ridiculous.

20

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

Not disputing your argument in general, but
'Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men' - can that be possible? is 50% men not sufficient for you?

21

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:33 AM Haredi Lite Says:

I would submit that the members of a Vaad HaTzenius suffer from some kind of perversion. They are obssessed with women in an extreme, unhealthy manner, and this is how their sickness comes out. There are many other ways to be oveid Hashem. Why did they choose to devote so much of their time to this matter in particular? A normal, healthy man would not do this.

22

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
ChareidiMan Says:

This is a perfect example of how important education is. These bums are uneducated and are doctored to think one way and it’s disgusting.
One of my employees (Non Jewish) told me this morning, and I quote: “These people make the Taliban look good”

This non-sense action has to stop and someone with real authority has to speak up, it is out of hand. Are you telling me that there is not ONE Rabbi with a little brain that can stop this? Can start educating these people that we live in the USA and there is something called “The Law”?

These action only bring more and more anti-Semitism and it never ends well

The people who make the protests do not listen to rabbis - do you see any rabbis named on the poster? Also, considering this was yesterday, is there any news as to how many people showed up to this "massive protest", I think most people in willi have no time for this as they work for a living. I would be surprised if even a minyan showed up.

23

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:42 AM Williamsburg yid Says:

Reply to #1  
ChareidiMan Says:

This is a perfect example of how important education is. These bums are uneducated and are doctored to think one way and it’s disgusting.
One of my employees (Non Jewish) told me this morning, and I quote: “These people make the Taliban look good”

This non-sense action has to stop and someone with real authority has to speak up, it is out of hand. Are you telling me that there is not ONE Rabbi with a little brain that can stop this? Can start educating these people that we live in the USA and there is something called “The Law”?

These action only bring more and more anti-Semitism and it never ends well

If God forbid someone do improper things you all jump to lock him up for over 100 years we try to watch and protect our children when they are still young so why put up something that's a גורי היצר in our frum community

24

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

It's not what they stand for. It's wrong how they approach the issue.
A few years ago there was a store in bp with a similar situation. I'm not sure how it was worked out but they now have some sort of screen in the window. It doesn't look too bad.
A frum womens clothing store in middle of a busy area in williamsburg that has many men passing through all day should not have an open view to the pulic.
Perhaps the owners didn't think it through when they designed the store. With some minor changes that can be accomplished.
But the way this vaad is dealing with it is wrong.
Hopefully the store owners will realize what the right thing is and cover up the windows in a proper manner. In that zchus i wish them lots of hatzlocha in their new business.

25

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:46 AM Yossel Says:

Reply to #6  
rebbe123 Says:

are you charedi? like your cover name says! don't we live in a country where there's freedom of speech? educating? what? whom? we live there we have our children if we want to live a Manhattan lifestyle then you right. but we still have to follow above all the rule of the Torah! are we going to Manhattan or any other place to tell ppl what to do? or we we want our neighborhood clean?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! is also for the frum community

A man also has a right to conduct business without other people threatening him!!!! The women still go into a private changing room to try on clothing. If you can't help but be affected by the sight of a woman just holding a dress in the air, you are a sick man! Go live in Saudi Arabia or Iran!

26

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

In Roman do as the Romans do. Why would you want to go into an area that is not your approach to reaching your type of customer. Would you open a horse meat shop there. Would you open a bar in a moslem neighborhood.. In vatican city would you open a red light district. People who are against tznius are against that type of living.

27

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:52 AM maven Says:

I think if these people so called vad hatznius would really care they would change alot of things in williamsburg before this one its all crap

28

 Feb 22, 2013 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

These boycotts are reminiscent of the german boycotts of Yiddishe stores in nazi germany.

29

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:06 PM Stop this nonsense Says:

The cops should arrest members of the modesty patrol, for harassment, disorderly conduct, and possibly extortion. This is not Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan, where the religious police tell people how to dress!

30

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM aidelmaidel Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

If looking at tznius dresses gets you so bothered you need to check into some sort of rehab asap!

31

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:10 PM wondering Says:

Reply to #2  
shlomogabai Says:

Interesting, the article points out freedom of religion, accepting that for some (even if only a minority) its part of their religion.

Freedom of religion ends where it impacts other people's rights.
In this country there is a right to open a store with large windows that sells womens' clothing (just as athere is a right to open a seforim store that shows Jewish books in the window). The Taliban would definitely not allow Jewsih books in a window in Afghanistan. We live in a country that is trying to balance everyone's rights INCLUDING YOURS as long as they dont infringe on each other.
If someone had a religion that required screaming "dirty jew" at every Chassid who passed by would you allow them freedom of religion?
The main issue here is that the store is not infringing on any man's RIGHT to close his eyes or avert his gaze when he passes by that store if it affects him in incorrect ways.
Moreover, you unfortunately do not see the underlying issue that the newspaper is exposing. In a neighborhood where these fylers make sense to people, there were no flyers decrying the fact that a man was providing therapy to women alone in a room for many hours for many years(whether or not he was guilty of rape) al while denying the existence of this very vaad... They are pointing out the hypocracy.

32

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:14 PM blk123 Says:

I went to Pastel recently and bought robes for my girls. Nice stuff. I will say that I see their point- my kids were uncomfortable coming out from the dressing rooms bc the windows make it so open to everyone. And we are not Chassidish.

33

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:15 PM ChareidiMan Says:

Reply to #6  
rebbe123 Says:

are you charedi? like your cover name says! don't we live in a country where there's freedom of speech? educating? what? whom? we live there we have our children if we want to live a Manhattan lifestyle then you right. but we still have to follow above all the rule of the Torah! are we going to Manhattan or any other place to tell ppl what to do? or we we want our neighborhood clean?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! is also for the frum community

Yes i am and i livein Boro Park. The point was that the entire stroy is non sense. i would agree with you if they open a gay bar in williamsburg we SHOULD protest it, if they open a CLUB in williamsburg, we \SHOULD protest it, but this is nonsense.

These are a couple of beheimus that are holier than thou as you can actually see that no REAL dayan or Rabbi signed off on this. And one kuku zimmerman can have the entire goyishe press turn on us. So guys like him should be kicked iut and he can join the neturei karta

34

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:21 PM HAPPY12 Says:

1. Grill on Lee was no way the first fast food restaurant in the neighborhood. His store used to be a pizza store which had seating too. Green's, Itzu's, Cafe on Lee, etc etc were all here before him. The problem with Grill on Lee was the element that was attracted to the store. You had an element that was never in the neighborhood prior.
2. Pastel is a children's robe store - as a woman - when I passed the store in the evening I thought to myself how will I feel comfortable shopping there when their large glass windows (entire wall) is open to the street. It was like shopping in an open mall. I am happy they covered the windows - that's they way is should be both for the people inside and people outside.
3. I love the way people who have no inkling of what is actually transpiring comment. If you don't live nearby or have firsthand knowledge it is best to keep comments to yourself - you end up sounding foolish otherwise.

35

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:

This is getting worse and worse. I think if these so- called " tznius patrols had jobs, they wouldn't have time for this kind of nonsense.
These windows have been there for the past 50 years, nothing has changed except the store owner. I wish them all the hatzlacha in the world

36

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Williamsburg yid Says:

If God forbid someone do improper things you all jump to lock him up for over 100 years we try to watch and protect our children when they are still young so why put up something that's a גורי היצר in our frum community

You're comparing child molestation to watching fully clothed religious women shopping for clothing? Your type of comment goes to the heart of what is wrong with the mentality in this community.

37

 Feb 22, 2013 at 12:48 PM Chanala Says:

Reply to #31  
wondering Says:

Freedom of religion ends where it impacts other people's rights.
In this country there is a right to open a store with large windows that sells womens' clothing (just as athere is a right to open a seforim store that shows Jewish books in the window). The Taliban would definitely not allow Jewsih books in a window in Afghanistan. We live in a country that is trying to balance everyone's rights INCLUDING YOURS as long as they dont infringe on each other.
If someone had a religion that required screaming "dirty jew" at every Chassid who passed by would you allow them freedom of religion?
The main issue here is that the store is not infringing on any man's RIGHT to close his eyes or avert his gaze when he passes by that store if it affects him in incorrect ways.
Moreover, you unfortunately do not see the underlying issue that the newspaper is exposing. In a neighborhood where these fylers make sense to people, there were no flyers decrying the fact that a man was providing therapy to women alone in a room for many hours for many years(whether or not he was guilty of rape) al while denying the existence of this very vaad... They are pointing out the hypocracy.

To paraphrase Oliver Wendell Holmes's genius, the right to swing your fist ends where the other person's nose begins.
I leave the application to you guys.
You are 100% right.

39

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:02 PM DavidCohen Says:

Kanoim tend to be over compensating. Anyone that obsessed with "tzniyus" and having to force their views on others is likely hiding plenty of dirty laundry of his own. Maybe it's time to do some background searching of "vaad hatzniyus" members.

40

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
rebbe123 Says:

are you charedi? like your cover name says! don't we live in a country where there's freedom of speech? educating? what? whom? we live there we have our children if we want to live a Manhattan lifestyle then you right. but we still have to follow above all the rule of the Torah! are we going to Manhattan or any other place to tell ppl what to do? or we we want our neighborhood clean?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! is also for the frum community

"or we we want our neighborhood clean?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! is also for the frum community"

You want your neighborhood "clean"? Get rid of the child molesters and let the poor store owners alone. Your priorities are all wrong. There are private dressing rooms for this store and if the men can't avert their eyes when they pass the store, that's THEIR problem. Have we turned them into peeping Toms now?

41

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

It's not what they stand for. It's wrong how they approach the issue.
A few years ago there was a store in bp with a similar situation. I'm not sure how it was worked out but they now have some sort of screen in the window. It doesn't look too bad.
A frum womens clothing store in middle of a busy area in williamsburg that has many men passing through all day should not have an open view to the pulic.
Perhaps the owners didn't think it through when they designed the store. With some minor changes that can be accomplished.
But the way this vaad is dealing with it is wrong.
Hopefully the store owners will realize what the right thing is and cover up the windows in a proper manner. In that zchus i wish them lots of hatzlocha in their new business.

"A frum womens clothing store in middle of a busy area in williamsburg that has many men passing through all day should not have an open view to the pulic. "

Uh, the men can't just look the other way for 3 seconds til they pass the store?? Are they that sexually perverted and have that little self control?

42

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:49 PM Isaac60 Says:

what we must do is, make sure that we have working camera's in the area and some hidden from the public's eye, when we can identify and single person married or single lets find out who the parents are and family.

Important to find out if the work for a living, have a side income and most probably get government funding such as Section 8, food stamps, etc; and start reporting the entire family (anonyms) to the IRS, FBI and the district attorney's office I'm not kidding I already have 4 guys from photos and proceeding with it.

then we must start calling the FBI civil rights division (if the DA does nothing) and start arresting these TALIBAN people.

in the very near future there will be a blast via email-text-twitter with phone #s to all these agencies let the parents know that the mamzierim they raised will put them in jail.

As for all the law enforcement reading these, PLEASE come to Williamsburg and start investigating all these
balckmailers

43

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
shlomogabai Says:

Interesting, the article points out freedom of religion, accepting that for some (even if only a minority) its part of their religion.

No problem...let them not shop there. For crying out loud, this is taking it a bit too far. I moved away 11 years ago...and by now...I can say, I'm happy I did. I did not move away at that time because of these issues, just couldn't find housing when I was put out....but boy am I glad I'm here in B.P.

44

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
shlomogabai Says:

Interesting, the article points out freedom of religion, accepting that for some (even if only a minority) its part of their religion.

it is part of NOBODY'S religion to make other people follow YOUR laws. your religion tells you what to do for yourself. It does not and should not make you force others to be as frum as you think you are.

45

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

Open your own clothing store in a cave so all the chassidishe shoppers can come buy from you.

In the meantime, leave other people the hell alone!

46

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

Your posting is without doubt the funniest and most absurd commentary I've seen here in a long time since it apparently was meant in a serious manner. No, there is NOTHING untzinusdik about women looking at clothing on racks. The dressing rooms are IN THE BACK OF THE STORE and are not visible at all from the street. There are no women taking off their clothes in the aisles to "try on" dresses. This is not like the infamous "back room" at Loehman's or the Filene's wedding gown sale. These are normal frum women doing what normal men and women do. They are not dressed immodestly or behaving in a provocative or lewd manner. The problem is in your mind. Please talk to your rav or posek since its not clear that you fathom what "yetzias mitzraim" was about.

47

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Mixed seating? In KJ restaurants they have one section for men alone, one for women alone, and one for families. Why can't grill on lee do the same?

because they don't have to just because you want them to.

You idiots think I want to go out to dinner wqith my family and have half of the family sit in one part of the store and the other half elsewhere?

vaad hatznius should get real jobs and leave working pople alone. if they don't likew what they see, they can poke their own eyes out.

48

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

In Roman do as the Romans do. Why would you want to go into an area that is not your approach to reaching your type of customer. Would you open a horse meat shop there. Would you open a bar in a moslem neighborhood.. In vatican city would you open a red light district. People who are against tznius are against that type of living.

This isn't Rome, and plenty of Romans don't do what other Roman's do.

49

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
HAPPY12 Says:

1. Grill on Lee was no way the first fast food restaurant in the neighborhood. His store used to be a pizza store which had seating too. Green's, Itzu's, Cafe on Lee, etc etc were all here before him. The problem with Grill on Lee was the element that was attracted to the store. You had an element that was never in the neighborhood prior.
2. Pastel is a children's robe store - as a woman - when I passed the store in the evening I thought to myself how will I feel comfortable shopping there when their large glass windows (entire wall) is open to the street. It was like shopping in an open mall. I am happy they covered the windows - that's they way is should be both for the people inside and people outside.
3. I love the way people who have no inkling of what is actually transpiring comment. If you don't live nearby or have firsthand knowledge it is best to keep comments to yourself - you end up sounding foolish otherwise.

No my dear, you are the foolish one. What do you mean by "attracted a certain element"? Anybody could come into a store and buy food, if you don't want to stand next to the guy who "doesn't look like you" , walk out....the world is made up of different people...and you think you are the "right" one..right? The other one is " a gornish..right" wrong...You are the gornish....my dear.
I am a chassidish woman and I lived in your community....I am a normal chassidish woman, but you people are destroying normal life for normal people. You have embarked on a journey to "nowhere" ...because your whole life is about...Oh...protect your little boys from the little girls, because c'v...they will get ideas. They are getting the ideas....BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING REAL SURE THEY SEE WHAT IT IS THEYARE MISSING..
IF NORMAL ADULTS, MEN ...THAT IS... have problems with their vision and self control...they ought to close their eyes and look down when they walk, rather bump into a pole than into a woman.

50

 Feb 22, 2013 at 01:59 PM Chana Says:

Shame on VIN for it's choice of headlines. Scolding and Intimidation have very different meanings. By using "scolding" you belittle the severity of the "vaad's" actions (namely violating the shop owners rights under US law, and intimidation) and thus become an accomplice. Maybe it's time to get a better editor.

51

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:01 PM ChanaE Says:

Maybe it's time to start a Va'ad Ha'Emes.

52

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Mixed seating? In KJ restaurants they have one section for men alone, one for women alone, and one for families. Why can't grill on lee do the same?

grill could do whatever they want. don't like it, don't go there. period

53

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
blk123 Says:

I went to Pastel recently and bought robes for my girls. Nice stuff. I will say that I see their point- my kids were uncomfortable coming out from the dressing rooms bc the windows make it so open to everyone. And we are not Chassidish.

"my kids were uncomfortable coming out from the dressing rooms bc the windows make it so open to everyone"

If your kids were dressed, why were they uncomfortable coming out into the store? They were in robes, not underwear. Children should be taught to love their bodies and that there is nothing to be ashamed of.

54

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:04 PM Velvul Says:

Reply to #23  
Williamsburg yid Says:

If God forbid someone do improper things you all jump to lock him up for over 100 years we try to watch and protect our children when they are still young so why put up something that's a גורי היצר in our frum community

"If God forbid someone do improper things you all jump to lock him up for over 100 years we try to watch and protect our children when they are still young so why put up something that's a גורי היצר in our frum community"

One is rape of a child and the other is having women look at robes. Do you not see the difference?

55

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Mixed seating? In KJ restaurants they have one section for men alone, one for women alone, and one for families. Why can't grill on lee do the same?

They don't have so many sections in grill to accomodate your problem...small store. Maybe in the back but it's too small for three sections...anyway...woman and men don't need mechitza only where it says in Torah....sorry.

56

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:07 PM Anon Ibid Opcit Says:

Reply to #11  
Phineas Says:

Why not put up an announcement that men should walk by only on the other side of the street so that women can have a place to shop that is pleasant, well lit, and where they can see the merchandise? Why put the onus on the merchants that cater to the women. Why can't the men adjust for once?

Because that's not the point. It isn't about modesty. It's about control, control over merchants, control over women, control over every aspect of people's lives.

57

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Williamsburg yid Says:

If God forbid someone do improper things you all jump to lock him up for over 100 years we try to watch and protect our children when they are still young so why put up something that's a גורי היצר in our frum community

I am so happy I am a Conservative Jew and can shop anywhere I please with my children. My husband even comes into the stores with me to pick out camp outfits. How did Judaism change so much that men are upset when they look in a woman's shop's windows?

58

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:21 PM A PASTEL CUSTOMER Says:

I shop at PASTEL every year, Love thier collection style and fit, i didnt know they are open until i bumped in to this article.
see you guys on monday!

59

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:25 PM Mendel Says:

Why are Jewish women out shopping in public to begin with, where they can be seen by men? This is not how a daughter of Israel should conduct herself. If she needs a dress she can phone the shop and her husband can pick up the dress.

60

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:30 PM CollegeYid Says:

Reply to #11  
Phineas Says:

Why not put up an announcement that men should walk by only on the other side of the street so that women can have a place to shop that is pleasant, well lit, and where they can see the merchandise? Why put the onus on the merchants that cater to the women. Why can't the men adjust for once?

Your approach is logical, the difficulty in implemented your suggested recourse is that these men are ILLOGICAL ...ILL-Logical, they are sick in their heads. Much like the Taliban, they believe they are doing the work of Hakodush Boruch Hu, and will never accommodation another rational solution. For those who can not see or turn a blind eye- this is dangerous behavior and will continue to escalate. This isn't G-d's work, this is the product of inbred uneducated monsters who value themselves on ego.

61

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:31 PM Mendel Says:

Reply to #10  
a friend of the owner Says:

#4 This is a CHILDREN'S store!! They are getting in ladies.. but so far it is not in yet and are planning to put in the lower level of the store.
If these perverts would mean it l'shem shumaiyim, they would approach the owners and ask them to cover the windows.. but instead they bring more attention (which the owners are thrilled) to PASTEL store.

Excuse me, but it is just as bad that men should see children in this manner. Why is it that these store owners wish to tempt men in this manner?

62

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:40 PM Facts1 Says:

ישנו עם "אחד" מפוזר ומפורד בין העמים "ואת דתי המלך אינם עושים". 1

Who cares what today's society thinks, Achashveirosh also saw us as "different" and "primitive". As long as we are doing it legally we have the right to show contempt for any attempt to change our way of life. Lets protest, lets do it legally and do everything we can to get this store to move to a location that's more suitable for them.

כל כבודה בת מלך "פנימה"1

Chazal is full of it, how a woman's place is at home, and Torah is virtue.

63

 Feb 22, 2013 at 02:50 PM Norden Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

"What sets US APART??"

In the case under discussion here 100% undiluted naarishkeit seeing you asked.

64

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:08 PM Hamantasch Haim Says:

Reply to #6  
rebbe123 Says:

are you charedi? like your cover name says! don't we live in a country where there's freedom of speech? educating? what? whom? we live there we have our children if we want to live a Manhattan lifestyle then you right. but we still have to follow above all the rule of the Torah! are we going to Manhattan or any other place to tell ppl what to do? or we we want our neighborhood clean?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! is also for the frum community

"FREEDOM OF SPEECH is also for the frum community", proudly trumpets rebbe123.

It most certainly is! However, killing off another person's perfectly legal parnassah most certainly is not.

But it would seem that none of the knuckle dragging New York Neanderthals who make up this so-called "tznius" gang of self-appointed vigilantes knows the first thing about parnassah, paying one's way through life or doing an honest day's work for an honest day's pay.

65

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:12 PM Seeker After Knowledge Says:

Reply to #6  
rebbe123 Says:

are you charedi? like your cover name says! don't we live in a country where there's freedom of speech? educating? what? whom? we live there we have our children if we want to live a Manhattan lifestyle then you right. but we still have to follow above all the rule of the Torah! are we going to Manhattan or any other place to tell ppl what to do? or we we want our neighborhood clean?
FREEDOM OF SPEECH! is also for the frum community

" ... if we want to live a Manhattan lifestyle then you right."

In what way, my dear rebbe123, is "a Manhattan life style" different from a Bronx lifestyle, or a Brooklyn lifestyle, or a Staten Island lifestyle, or a Queens lifestyle or ...?

66

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
HAPPY12 Says:

1. Grill on Lee was no way the first fast food restaurant in the neighborhood. His store used to be a pizza store which had seating too. Green's, Itzu's, Cafe on Lee, etc etc were all here before him. The problem with Grill on Lee was the element that was attracted to the store. You had an element that was never in the neighborhood prior.
2. Pastel is a children's robe store - as a woman - when I passed the store in the evening I thought to myself how will I feel comfortable shopping there when their large glass windows (entire wall) is open to the street. It was like shopping in an open mall. I am happy they covered the windows - that's they way is should be both for the people inside and people outside.
3. I love the way people who have no inkling of what is actually transpiring comment. If you don't live nearby or have firsthand knowledge it is best to keep comments to yourself - you end up sounding foolish otherwise.

Green's, Itzu's, Cafe on Lee, they are all diary pizza stores. Grill on lee is the first flieshiga fast food resturant. Before grill on lee was established there wes no good sandwich to be found in williamsburg

67

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:18 PM Fresser First Class Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Mixed seating? In KJ restaurants they have one section for men alone, one for women alone, and one for families. Why can't grill on lee do the same?

Please give us one good commercial reason that Grill on Lee should do that.

68

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

In Roman do as the Romans do. Why would you want to go into an area that is not your approach to reaching your type of customer. Would you open a horse meat shop there. Would you open a bar in a moslem neighborhood.. In vatican city would you open a red light district. People who are against tznius are against that type of living.

you are absolutely wrong, and know nothing about social studies. You cannot open ANYTHING in Vatican City, but that is besides the point. If someone wants to open one of the businesses you mention, he CAN, he just won't be successful. that is not the case here. they are trying to STOP him from running his business. There are plenty of places in Williamsburg selling the equivalent of horsemeat. the tznius terrorists can't force them to do anything. They only threaten Jews.

If they don't like the way the store is run, let them vote with their wallets and pocketbooks. otherwise, leave them the hell alone to run their own businesses however they see fit.

69

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
blk123 Says:

I went to Pastel recently and bought robes for my girls. Nice stuff. I will say that I see their point- my kids were uncomfortable coming out from the dressing rooms bc the windows make it so open to everyone. And we are not Chassidish.

then why are you shopping there?

Because in the frum community, saving money trump tznius and everything else.

70

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #53  
Anonymous Says:

"my kids were uncomfortable coming out from the dressing rooms bc the windows make it so open to everyone"

If your kids were dressed, why were they uncomfortable coming out into the store? They were in robes, not underwear. Children should be taught to love their bodies and that there is nothing to be ashamed of.

you're going too far. if the woman's kids were embarrassed, why did continue to shop there?

71

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:35 PM mendel Says:

Reply to #34  
HAPPY12 Says:

1. Grill on Lee was no way the first fast food restaurant in the neighborhood. His store used to be a pizza store which had seating too. Green's, Itzu's, Cafe on Lee, etc etc were all here before him. The problem with Grill on Lee was the element that was attracted to the store. You had an element that was never in the neighborhood prior.
2. Pastel is a children's robe store - as a woman - when I passed the store in the evening I thought to myself how will I feel comfortable shopping there when their large glass windows (entire wall) is open to the street. It was like shopping in an open mall. I am happy they covered the windows - that's they way is should be both for the people inside and people outside.
3. I love the way people who have no inkling of what is actually transpiring comment. If you don't live nearby or have firsthand knowledge it is best to keep comments to yourself - you end up sounding foolish otherwise.

When you walked on the street toward that store, you were out in the open, too. That ought to have bothered you with the realization of how exposed you are - how immodest it is to be seen and walking among crowds of men. Let your husband do the shopping for the children's robes, and set a good example for your children.

72

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

I am so happy I am a Conservative Jew and can shop anywhere I please with my children. My husband even comes into the stores with me to pick out camp outfits. How did Judaism change so much that men are upset when they look in a woman's shop's windows?

because these self-righteous condescending so-called frum people don't realize that they make a laughingstock of the Orthodox community. B

Beleive me when I tell you I am frum-from-birth and spent my life in chassidishe shteibles, and only recently see that you Conservatives are more admirably observing Judaism that these zealots.

73

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
Mendel Says:

Excuse me, but it is just as bad that men should see children in this manner. Why is it that these store owners wish to tempt men in this manner?

because clearly anyone who does not agree with the tznius police is a would-be child-molester and pedophile.

74

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
Norden Says:

"What sets US APART??"

In the case under discussion here 100% undiluted naarishkeit seeing you asked.

what sets us apart is that we have terrorists who are just as bad as the mafia going from store to store and telling them what they are allowed to do if they want to do business in the neighborhood.

what they are doing is illegal on so many levels, including coercion, intimidation, blackmail, etc.

75

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:57 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #42  
Isaac60 Says:

what we must do is, make sure that we have working camera's in the area and some hidden from the public's eye, when we can identify and single person married or single lets find out who the parents are and family.

Important to find out if the work for a living, have a side income and most probably get government funding such as Section 8, food stamps, etc; and start reporting the entire family (anonyms) to the IRS, FBI and the district attorney's office I'm not kidding I already have 4 guys from photos and proceeding with it.

then we must start calling the FBI civil rights division (if the DA does nothing) and start arresting these TALIBAN people.

in the very near future there will be a blast via email-text-twitter with phone #s to all these agencies let the parents know that the mamzierim they raised will put them in jail.

As for all the law enforcement reading these, PLEASE come to Williamsburg and start investigating all these
balckmailers

Isaac60, if you live or do business in Willi, I can understand your anger. But, please take a moment to think this through. I am sure you don't wish to stoop to their level. It will only escalate into an unimaginable chilul Hashem -- the worst thing any Jew can do.

76

 Feb 22, 2013 at 03:58 PM Norden Says:

Reply to #59  
Mendel Says:

Why are Jewish women out shopping in public to begin with, where they can be seen by men? This is not how a daughter of Israel should conduct herself. If she needs a dress she can phone the shop and her husband can pick up the dress.

I have read and re-read your comment, Mendel, but I still don't know whether to laugh or to cry over your bigotry and stupidity in this matter.

How is your "daughter of Israel" to know what is available if she has to remain, locked up, at home? The infamous "asifa" banned the use of computer, so ordering over the internet is out. Why should she have to trust her husband's taste in female attire? It might have escaped your notice, Mendel, but even women have basic human rights - whether it suits your misogynistic way of life or not.

There used to be a contributor to VIN who nominated choice comments for what he called "the Annual Shmendrik Awards"; It's a shame he is no longer around because your contribution would sweep the board this year for sheer stupidity and prejudice.

Does you wife know about your opinions in this matter? It is far more probable that you still remain single and lonely at age 50, eking out a miserable and spiteful existence living in your mother's cellar and living off food stamps.

77

 Feb 22, 2013 at 04:09 PM Bella Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

I got it!! Get blinders for the men, like the horses wear, so they avoid being tempted by shop windows! Oy Vey. Give me a break. I am sure men can control themselves. Take responsibility for yourself!

78

 Feb 22, 2013 at 04:10 PM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

To quote the great Christopher Hitchens: "You are offended? I AM offended by you. I am offended by your barbarism, your caveman mentality, your support of rules that encourage repression of women, rape of children and complete ignorance of science"

79

 Feb 22, 2013 at 04:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
Mendel Says:

Why are Jewish women out shopping in public to begin with, where they can be seen by men? This is not how a daughter of Israel should conduct herself. If she needs a dress she can phone the shop and her husband can pick up the dress.

wow - nice. So women are objects, to be controlled by their husbands and hidden away? This is how Avraham and Moshe viewed women? you are one sick individual.

80

 Feb 22, 2013 at 04:46 PM Yoilish Says:

If the Vaad Hatznius is hating on this store it must be something beautiful & successful! Best of luck to Pastel. Ignore these lunatics, don't get frustrated & keep on going strong!

81

 Feb 22, 2013 at 07:31 PM RobertS Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

because these self-righteous condescending so-called frum people don't realize that they make a laughingstock of the Orthodox community. B

Beleive me when I tell you I am frum-from-birth and spent my life in chassidishe shteibles, and only recently see that you Conservatives are more admirably observing Judaism that these zealots.

That is, when the Conservative temple members are not desecrating Shabbos, eating trayf, and celebrating "gay weddings", and otherwise ignoring normative Jewish practice

82

 Feb 22, 2013 at 08:39 PM PaulinSaudi Says:

The gentlemen of the Modesty Committee have a perfect freedom of speech in this matter. If they wish to bully people they may do so as long as they stay within the limits of the law.

I have a perfect freedom to call them American Taliban.

83

 Feb 23, 2013 at 09:16 AM Alanski Says:

Freedom of religion is important, but freedom from religion is more important. Be as religious as you want but you have no right to impose your deluded beliefs on anyone else.

84

 Feb 23, 2013 at 01:11 PM Avi Says:

Simple solution. Firearm license andca loaded shotgun behind the counter. The Mafia only understands violence.

85

 Feb 23, 2013 at 03:05 PM a lover of pastel Says:

go pastel go!!!! go pastel go!!!! continue your great work!

86

 Feb 23, 2013 at 05:42 PM Mayer Alter Says:

Of course it is about It's about control, control over merchants, control over women, control over every aspect of people's lives. The Shulchan Oruch is there to control our lives, our every action. We should be pleased that we have Vaadei Tznius to protect us from ourselves.

87

 Feb 23, 2013 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #81  
RobertS Says:

That is, when the Conservative temple members are not desecrating Shabbos, eating trayf, and celebrating "gay weddings", and otherwise ignoring normative Jewish practice

let me tell you that your comment is ignorant on many levels, but suffice it to say simply this:

If you do not conduct yourself appropriately in the bain odom l'odom (person-to-person) obligations, your bain odom laMokom practices, like shabbos, kashrus, etc., are worthless to Gd.

And just for the record, not only is there nothing halachically wrong with "celebrating" a gay wedding (only male/male physical relations are are prohibited), you obviously have no idea how many supposedly frum and chassidishe men engage in homosexual relations.

celebrating a gay wedding, which has no religious significance whatsoever, is no more a problem than throwing a birthday party for your dog.

Lastly, you have no standing to tell me what to respect and what not to. Your obvious ignorance and lack of education (look up normative, BTW) allow you to make statements like "ignoring normative[sic] Jewish [practice". Conservatism and even reform practices are Jewish practices (no one but Jews follow them), although I personally don't believe they represent halachic requirements. That just makes those practices non-orthodox, not non-Jewish.

88

 Feb 23, 2013 at 07:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #82  
PaulinSaudi Says:

The gentlemen of the Modesty Committee have a perfect freedom of speech in this matter. If they wish to bully people they may do so as long as they stay within the limits of the law.

I have a perfect freedom to call them American Taliban.

you are by definition incorrect.

verbal bullying is illegal (and in many cases constitutes criminal assault, as opposed to battery, which requires physical contact while assault doesn't), and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

89

 Feb 23, 2013 at 07:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #84  
Avi Says:

Simple solution. Firearm license andca loaded shotgun behind the counter. The Mafia only understands violence.

very good comment. everyone would understand if you shot a person who came into your store and demanded that your customers dress more tzniusdik.

You go first, and let us know how that works out for you.

90

 Feb 23, 2013 at 08:06 PM newtransplant Says:

Reply to #4  
MENTCHLECH Says:

By the way, do you think what the modest committee is doing is so wrong? Lets take a step back. This clothing store is geared to women and women only. We are supposed to be a helig and gehoibena folk! It is in the center of Williamsburg which is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men who pass by this store everyday. Why would a chasidish person opening this store have windows that are completely open a full 10 feet in height where you can see women trying on dresses, looking into mirrors, looking if the dresses fit, front and back. WHY?? WHY not do the same thing in a more tsneisdig manner, opening the store, with a showcase of dresses, in the storefront, where one CAN NOT see in?? Do we have to do everything like the goyim?? Or we so enmeshed in this low society that when someone tells you its wrong, YOU DONT HEAR??? Education?? where is our education? Where is our background? Do we give up all we beleive in so we can "meld" into society? What sets US APART?? Isn't tsneius what got us out of Mitzraim??

If Williamsburg is made up of a majority of men where have all the children, male and female come from? Or do they perhaps takke arrive by stork..... Surely for every man there is awoman!!!!!

91

 Feb 23, 2013 at 08:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #81  
RobertS Says:

That is, when the Conservative temple members are not desecrating Shabbos, eating trayf, and celebrating "gay weddings", and otherwise ignoring normative Jewish practice

"That is, when the Conservative temple members are not desecrating Shabbos, eating trayf, and celebrating "gay weddings", and otherwise ignoring normative Jewish practice"

Most of us Conservative Jews protect our kinder first and do not protect child molesters. Our Rabbonim are rarely in the news for any sexual misconduct. We keep Shabbos, Kosher and yes, some of us have gay children, but we love them and never throw them out of our homes for being gay. You all can take a lesson on family life and integrity from us. :)

92

 Feb 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM lee lee Says:

this is all a propaganda play from pastel to get free publicity now before the passover season

93

 Feb 23, 2013 at 10:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Not that I would advocate violence but if these hoodlums come into a store, they should be met with ah gizinta sheeser!!!

94

 Feb 23, 2013 at 10:50 PM Williamsburg in the USA Says:

The Williamsburg culture does not fit this country.
In General many parts of the Torah culture does not belong in this country and Williamsburg's extreme version - even more.

It's not only about Tznius. It's about the general culture forcing the Torah on others.
So many things that Williamsburg does is not fit for this country. So many things that our Torah requires us to do and to enforce cannot be done in this country.

They are much more fit to live between the 1 billion Arabs or the 1 billion Chinese where "Religion" is enforceable. The problem is that many of these same countries persecute Jews as well.

In my opinion, true freedom of Religion would be achievable in this country if the Government would not force their way any into specific community issues (Tznius, Bris Milah, Shuls) - and hands it down to community authorities. (After all anyone is always free to leave a community and live the way they want).

The problem is that this cannot happen with liberals (like Bloomberg) trying to fight religion.

95

 Feb 23, 2013 at 11:11 PM esther Says:

Reply to #76  
Norden Says:

I have read and re-read your comment, Mendel, but I still don't know whether to laugh or to cry over your bigotry and stupidity in this matter.

How is your "daughter of Israel" to know what is available if she has to remain, locked up, at home? The infamous "asifa" banned the use of computer, so ordering over the internet is out. Why should she have to trust her husband's taste in female attire? It might have escaped your notice, Mendel, but even women have basic human rights - whether it suits your misogynistic way of life or not.

There used to be a contributor to VIN who nominated choice comments for what he called "the Annual Shmendrik Awards"; It's a shame he is no longer around because your contribution would sweep the board this year for sheer stupidity and prejudice.

Does you wife know about your opinions in this matter? It is far more probable that you still remain single and lonely at age 50, eking out a miserable and spiteful existence living in your mother's cellar and living off food stamps.

hey,it's pretty clear mendel was joking! a frailichen purim!!!

96

 Feb 23, 2013 at 11:13 PM Conscience Says:

Its ok if we havent learned if we havent gleaned enough of our past
Nebech where are those who rebelled the so called open minded heroes , the herculean folks who did leave and attempted to make a demt in beauty of tradition , in the beauty of a timeless faith , well where are they , the answer is , those who come in the name of freedom of whatever , but freedom of conscience how oxymoronic , to tear to attempt even to dent the small little community how void ov conscience
Here we have huge neighberhoods designated for immoral and so called open minded and free whatever verb attempting to justify comporting with time with her here and now , and only williamsburg in there it must be , where is the right for those few nebech who choose to give up everything the here and now has to offers in order to preserve their heritage uncompromised unwavering , where is the recognition for that , the answer is Prevolence forever it is challanged in a transient storm , but again since it is rooted in a faith beyond time hence her survival it is gauranteed as well bez"h

97

 Feb 24, 2013 at 12:11 AM AhavatYisrael Says:

Reply to #1  
ChareidiMan Says:

This is a perfect example of how important education is. These bums are uneducated and are doctored to think one way and it’s disgusting.
One of my employees (Non Jewish) told me this morning, and I quote: “These people make the Taliban look good”

This non-sense action has to stop and someone with real authority has to speak up, it is out of hand. Are you telling me that there is not ONE Rabbi with a little brain that can stop this? Can start educating these people that we live in the USA and there is something called “The Law”?

These action only bring more and more anti-Semitism and it never ends well

To get these extremists in line the NYC authorities need to make the civic and rabbinic leadership accountable, or else ... ! Right now, the police arawns of the local residents, and do not want to rock the boat. Therefore, the local mafia conducts its threats without fear of retribution.

98

 Feb 24, 2013 at 12:19 AM AhavatYisrael Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

No my dear, you are the foolish one. What do you mean by "attracted a certain element"? Anybody could come into a store and buy food, if you don't want to stand next to the guy who "doesn't look like you" , walk out....the world is made up of different people...and you think you are the "right" one..right? The other one is " a gornish..right" wrong...You are the gornish....my dear.
I am a chassidish woman and I lived in your community....I am a normal chassidish woman, but you people are destroying normal life for normal people. You have embarked on a journey to "nowhere" ...because your whole life is about...Oh...protect your little boys from the little girls, because c'v...they will get ideas. They are getting the ideas....BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING REAL SURE THEY SEE WHAT IT IS THEYARE MISSING..
IF NORMAL ADULTS, MEN ...THAT IS... have problems with their vision and self control...they ought to close their eyes and look down when they walk, rather bump into a pole than into a woman.

Thanks to to publicity, my friends and I discovered this clothing haven on Friday morning and bought 8-10 items each at a great price. Let others know that this is a wonderful store with a great selection. We'll be back before Pesach, bli neder.

99

 Feb 24, 2013 at 12:29 AM AhavatYisrael Says:

Reply to #59  
Mendel Says:

Why are Jewish women out shopping in public to begin with, where they can be seen by men? This is not how a daughter of Israel should conduct herself. If she needs a dress she can phone the shop and her husband can pick up the dress.

MENDEL, YOU ARE 100% Right. Women should not leave their apartments because they can shop on the INTERNET. It's convenient, less expensive, and spares time which can be used to view other interesting websites etc. Today's women and men never have to leave their homes for anything because even their food can be shopped and shipped through the Internet. Let's admit it, Mendel, you like fat women who stay in the kitchen and the bedroom, and the Internet is G-d gift to you.

100

 Feb 24, 2013 at 05:26 AM heimish Says:

Reply to #92  
lee lee Says:

this is all a propaganda play from pastel to get free publicity now before the passover season

I dont think so. There were protests on quite a few stores these past couple of years and many of them closed shop cause they couldnt stand the heat.

101

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:36 AM Appalled from Appalachia Says:

Reply to #94  
Williamsburg in the USA Says:

The Williamsburg culture does not fit this country.
In General many parts of the Torah culture does not belong in this country and Williamsburg's extreme version - even more.

It's not only about Tznius. It's about the general culture forcing the Torah on others.
So many things that Williamsburg does is not fit for this country. So many things that our Torah requires us to do and to enforce cannot be done in this country.

They are much more fit to live between the 1 billion Arabs or the 1 billion Chinese where "Religion" is enforceable. The problem is that many of these same countries persecute Jews as well.

In my opinion, true freedom of Religion would be achievable in this country if the Government would not force their way any into specific community issues (Tznius, Bris Milah, Shuls) - and hands it down to community authorities. (After all anyone is always free to leave a community and live the way they want).

The problem is that this cannot happen with liberals (like Bloomberg) trying to fight religion.

So, in essence, what you are telling us is that there is no room for Torah and mitzvos in Williamsburg in particular or in the whole world in general these days.any more.

I am by no means a charedi Jew - in fact, many high-minded readers of VIN would not even consider me to be Jewish at all by their standards. But even *I*am repelled by the opinions expressed here by #94.

And if #94 published her remarks as some sort of Purim spiel they are very, very unfunny.

102

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:53 AM The Staten Island Statistician Says:

Reply to #90  
newtransplant Says:

If Williamsburg is made up of a majority of men where have all the children, male and female come from? Or do they perhaps takke arrive by stork..... Surely for every man there is awoman!!!!!

#4 (who was the subject of newstransplant #90's comment) has told us that "Williamsburg [which] is made up of a majority of Chasidic Men".

If this is indeed true (and who am I to have the temerity or the chutzpah to dare to cast doubt on such an important scientist and supreme secular scholar such as Reb MENTCHLECH?) then all the laws of nature are wrong. In every population of every animal that ever walked the face of this planet the male/female ration is and was 48/52. This is necessary to ensure that sufficient offspring survive to ensure the continuity of existence of each species.

But Reb MENTCHLECH (who is so self-important that he feels compelled to use capital letters for his name, rather like Leo Rosten's H*Y*M*A*N* K*A*P*L*A*N) refutes the very facts of life.

Right, enough hard scientific facts for one day. After all, it's Purim, so we can all carry on arguing and bickering - just like every other day in the VIN year!

103

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:56 AM Norden Says:

Reply to #94  
Williamsburg in the USA Says:

The Williamsburg culture does not fit this country.
In General many parts of the Torah culture does not belong in this country and Williamsburg's extreme version - even more.

It's not only about Tznius. It's about the general culture forcing the Torah on others.
So many things that Williamsburg does is not fit for this country. So many things that our Torah requires us to do and to enforce cannot be done in this country.

They are much more fit to live between the 1 billion Arabs or the 1 billion Chinese where "Religion" is enforceable. The problem is that many of these same countries persecute Jews as well.

In my opinion, true freedom of Religion would be achievable in this country if the Government would not force their way any into specific community issues (Tznius, Bris Milah, Shuls) - and hands it down to community authorities. (After all anyone is always free to leave a community and live the way they want).

The problem is that this cannot happen with liberals (like Bloomberg) trying to fight religion.

How on earth did you manage to drag Bloomberg into this? What has he got to do with a gang of self-appointed Jewish vigilantes?

104

 Feb 24, 2013 at 01:43 PM favish Says:

Reply to #1  
ChareidiMan Says:

This is a perfect example of how important education is. These bums are uneducated and are doctored to think one way and it’s disgusting.
One of my employees (Non Jewish) told me this morning, and I quote: “These people make the Taliban look good”

This non-sense action has to stop and someone with real authority has to speak up, it is out of hand. Are you telling me that there is not ONE Rabbi with a little brain that can stop this? Can start educating these people that we live in the USA and there is something called “The Law”?

These action only bring more and more anti-Semitism and it never ends well

please dont mock the term 'charedi' change ur name to 'vayisarvu bagoim vayilmedu mimasayhem'

106

 Feb 24, 2013 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #91  
Anonymous Says:

"That is, when the Conservative temple members are not desecrating Shabbos, eating trayf, and celebrating "gay weddings", and otherwise ignoring normative Jewish practice"

Most of us Conservative Jews protect our kinder first and do not protect child molesters. Our Rabbonim are rarely in the news for any sexual misconduct. We keep Shabbos, Kosher and yes, some of us have gay children, but we love them and never throw them out of our homes for being gay. You all can take a lesson on family life and integrity from us. :)

you keep shabbath with whats convinient. i can enumerate plenty of the taryag thatconservative 'keep.' by the way halachais derived from sanhedrin 'one who dont believe even 1 letter of de torah is not misinei is not bklall yisroel also see end of ramban sif parshes bo 'ein lo chelek betoras moshe ....'

107

 Feb 24, 2013 at 01:53 PM babi1939 Says:

These lowlife men that call themselves "Vad ha Tznius should get their minds out of the gutter. I suggest that they should not stare into store windows hoping to get a glimpse of "women shopping in plain sight" Has Vesholem!! I predict that Pastels will be a huge success and all this nonsense will backfire . Show your support for the store and and get the most stunning clothes for your kids at reasonable prices.

108

 Feb 24, 2013 at 01:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

I am so happy I am a Conservative Jew and can shop anywhere I please with my children. My husband even comes into the stores with me to pick out camp outfits. How did Judaism change so much that men are upset when they look in a woman's shop's windows?

you have nerve.. 'judaism changed' ! it was christians, reform, consrevativeetc who shed de torah shbal peh (aka S'U)if ur jewish (de mother, grand etc) somewhere down de line observed all these halchos. along came guys like moshe mendelsheo etc, may his name be obliterated for ever and ever, and let movements like urs astray so much that an ignorant non believers like u have chutzpah to say otherway around

109

 Feb 24, 2013 at 01:59 PM dov Says:

Reply to #10  
a friend of the owner Says:

#4 This is a CHILDREN'S store!! They are getting in ladies.. but so far it is not in yet and are planning to put in the lower level of the store.
If these perverts would mean it l'shem shumaiyim, they would approach the owners and ask them to cover the windows.. but instead they bring more attention (which the owners are thrilled) to PASTEL store.

the owner were asked 1 politely

110

 Feb 24, 2013 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
wmsg.boy Says:

There is nothing that any govt. agency can do to stop them harrasing ...Vaad Haznios is not a group affiliated with any Cong or Yeshiva in Willamsburgh or Boro Park or any other orthodox community.
Those vaad members are frum men and lets NOT forget what satmere rebbe said ..
FRUM stand for Feel Rishes Unvynig Mitzvahs...
They have no office or address where you can have those people brough to justice..
They have their meetings in the Mikveh and decide who is the next target ....
But not being associated or affiliated with any Mosdos i believe the Rabunim are very happy with their work because Keeven Deshoske applies here..You never see Der Blatt or Der Yid condemming their work ...
They publish their flyers at any printer and they demonstarte in front of the stores who violates their belief...USA is Freedom of SPEECH so there they GO.....

satmar rebbe said no such thing, you low life

111

 Feb 24, 2013 at 03:25 PM favish Says:

Reply to #78  
ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

To quote the great Christopher Hitchens: "You are offended? I AM offended by you. I am offended by your barbarism, your caveman mentality, your support of rules that encourage repression of women, rape of children and complete ignorance of science"

in other words ur offended with 'lo sosuru achrei levachem veachrei eineichem' u r offended with the whole concept of kedushas am yisroel which is dependent of this subject u are offended of de gemmorrah that states reb chanineh ben teradyons daughter was punished because she caused ROMAN legions to make a remark she walked sexy with her legs (avioda zorah 18a ) i can go on and ond from mitzvah deoireisa to darabonon on this subject bekitzer ur offended with de torah that commands us vhoyah machneuicha kudosh and from who do u bring support to ur assimilated shmutzkop from a goy, urel, tammah and where do u bring proof on frum shomrei torah site?! u belong on atheist, christian, reform etc site! loke hamen and de haters of shomrei torah umitzvos who had de same klolos on klall yisroel (aka shomrei torah) see megilah 12b hamen had just about de same tannii...lofers.touble makers )so may it be de will og kh'bhu you shuld have same fate as those who mocked de holy torah

112

 Feb 24, 2013 at 03:26 PM mayu4205 Says:

Reply to #59  
Mendel Says:

Why are Jewish women out shopping in public to begin with, where they can be seen by men? This is not how a daughter of Israel should conduct herself. If she needs a dress she can phone the shop and her husband can pick up the dress.

nuttier than a fruitcake. Where do these people come from???? I was chasidish all my life, and I never heard such crazy ideas.

113

 Feb 24, 2013 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:

After reading this, I am ashamed my grandparents still live there and are part of this society. I will endeavor to do whatever it takes to get them out as soon as possible and bring them to a safer and friendlier environment. This is my commitment to Judaism.

114

 Feb 24, 2013 at 05:53 PM favish Says:

Reply to #1  
ChareidiMan Says:

This is a perfect example of how important education is. These bums are uneducated and are doctored to think one way and it’s disgusting.
One of my employees (Non Jewish) told me this morning, and I quote: “These people make the Taliban look good”

This non-sense action has to stop and someone with real authority has to speak up, it is out of hand. Are you telling me that there is not ONE Rabbi with a little brain that can stop this? Can start educating these people that we live in the USA and there is something called “The Law”?

These action only bring more and more anti-Semitism and it never ends well

u r educated in the ways of de hedonistic culture of de shmutige immoral anti torah filth. we are educated in de holy ways of our forefathers all de way to sini which a major part is kedushas am yisroel and what does that entail mr educated in de ways of eisov but not yakov kedoshim tiyah see rashi (i know u dont have inklng what i mean mr uneducated in de holines of am yisroel

115

 Feb 24, 2013 at 06:40 PM favish Says:

Reply to #91  
Anonymous Says:

"That is, when the Conservative temple members are not desecrating Shabbos, eating trayf, and celebrating "gay weddings", and otherwise ignoring normative Jewish practice"

Most of us Conservative Jews protect our kinder first and do not protect child molesters. Our Rabbonim are rarely in the news for any sexual misconduct. We keep Shabbos, Kosher and yes, some of us have gay children, but we love them and never throw them out of our homes for being gay. You all can take a lesson on family life and integrity from us. :)

u keep shabbos with whats comfortable with u not al pi hilchos shabbos and so with rest of mitzvos. so who u kidding ur 'rabbis r not in news because its de norm also ur friend maddof but by shomrei torah its news because its not de norn

116

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:30 PM favish Says:

Reply to #101  
Appalled from Appalachia Says:

So, in essence, what you are telling us is that there is no room for Torah and mitzvos in Williamsburg in particular or in the whole world in general these days.any more.

I am by no means a charedi Jew - in fact, many high-minded readers of VIN would not even consider me to be Jewish at all by their standards. But even *I*am repelled by the opinions expressed here by #94.

And if #94 published her remarks as some sort of Purim spiel they are very, very unfunny.

so if by ur own admission u dont observe de taryag arent u afraid leyoim hadin u dont believe in schar veoinesh?. ur taking a big chance because if ur wrong and S;U is right hashem yismereinu

117

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:30 PM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

Reply to #108  
Anonymous Says:

you have nerve.. 'judaism changed' ! it was christians, reform, consrevativeetc who shed de torah shbal peh (aka S'U)if ur jewish (de mother, grand etc) somewhere down de line observed all these halchos. along came guys like moshe mendelsheo etc, may his name be obliterated for ever and ever, and let movements like urs astray so much that an ignorant non believers like u have chutzpah to say otherway around

Oh wait so judaisim has not changed? better get a slave because the torah endorses that! better stone a girl on her wedding day if she is not a virgin because the torah endorses that. better stone your son to death if he does not respect you, because the torah endorses that.. Whats that you say? those things don't "apply" anymore? GASP, the torah has changed!

118

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:35 PM favish Says:

Reply to #91  
Anonymous Says:

"That is, when the Conservative temple members are not desecrating Shabbos, eating trayf, and celebrating "gay weddings", and otherwise ignoring normative Jewish practice"

Most of us Conservative Jews protect our kinder first and do not protect child molesters. Our Rabbonim are rarely in the news for any sexual misconduct. We keep Shabbos, Kosher and yes, some of us have gay children, but we love them and never throw them out of our homes for being gay. You all can take a lesson on family life and integrity from us. :)

does that include de maddoffs etc etc ?

119

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:43 PM Norden Says:

Reply to #106  
Anonymous Says:

you keep shabbath with whats convinient. i can enumerate plenty of the taryag thatconservative 'keep.' by the way halachais derived from sanhedrin 'one who dont believe even 1 letter of de torah is not misinei is not bklall yisroel also see end of ramban sif parshes bo 'ein lo chelek betoras moshe ....'

You have evaded, in a very sly and devious manner, the essence of what #91 had stated so very clearly.

What he/she had to tell us was "Most of us Conservative Jews protect our kinder first and do not protect child molesters. Our Rabbonim are rarely in the news for any sexual misconduct".

As you could not pick holes in those two sentences, you clearly decided to attack on a different front: "We keep Shabbos, Kosher and yes, some of us have gay children, but we love them and never throw them out of our homes for being gay. You all can take a lesson on family life and integrity from us."

#91's methods of shabbos observance may or may not be congruent with your own, that is quite true. But it is the _spirit_ of shabbos observance that is important, and not whether it matches _your_ standards.

Leave the judging of each and every Jew's adherence to His dinim to HaShem. In the meantime just look to yourself - and yourself alone - before you poke your big Jewish nose into other people's affairs!

120

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:51 PM A N Other Says:

Reply to #110  
Anonymous Says:

satmar rebbe said no such thing, you low life

"satmar rebbe said no such thing, you low life"

You can guarantee and confirm that 100%, can you? Tell us, please, were you privy to each and every word your rebbe said? Alternately, was some scrivener appointed to follow him around to record his remarks either with a pen and paper or with an electronic recording device?

Even your heilige rebbe, who you appear to be in such awe of, would never have stopped so low as to call another human being a "low life" as you had chosen to to wsmg.boy #8.

The use of those two words by you totally invalidates everything that you had ever written before or will do henceforth. If ever there was a chilul HaShem THAT was it.

121

 Feb 24, 2013 at 07:59 PM Joy Nichols Says:

Reply to #109  
dov Says:

the owner were asked 1 politely

Maybe yes, maybe not - but what business was it of this self-appointed and so-called "va'ad hatznius"?

By whose authority did its members feel they have the authority to even think of interfering in the running of the store in the first place?

Moreover, if Pastels (the name of the store for those who are still drunk) had been under NON-Jewish ownership would these affronted and outraged arbiters of "modesty" have dared to even think about intervening? No, of course they would not; a Gentile owner would not have the slightest hesitation in tracking down these self-important ganze knackers and taken them to law.

More likely, they would have arranged for each of the Jewish busybodies to walk accidentally into a baseball bat a few times.

122

 Feb 24, 2013 at 08:03 PM Pomona Jew Says:

Reply to #115  
favish Says:

u keep shabbos with whats comfortable with u not al pi hilchos shabbos and so with rest of mitzvos. so who u kidding ur 'rabbis r not in news because its de norm also ur friend maddof but by shomrei torah its news because its not de norn

"r not in news because its de norm also ur friend maddof but by shomrei torah its news because its not de norn"

First of all, you need to go back to school and learn English! Madoff stole money and was convicted. There were no fundraisers set up for him and no one tried to protect him and say he wasn't really a Jew. He stole---but he never sexually molested any young boys or girls. Get your priorities straight while you are studying English! "The" is spelled 'the' and not "de."

123

 Feb 24, 2013 at 09:32 PM Norden Says:

Reply to #115  
favish Says:

u keep shabbos with whats comfortable with u not al pi hilchos shabbos and so with rest of mitzvos. so who u kidding ur 'rabbis r not in news because its de norm also ur friend maddof but by shomrei torah its news because its not de norn

Are you a Black Hebrew by any chance, favish? I ask because your rather affected style of writing implies that you want to give everyone de hi-five.

I realize it's Purim, but you are becoming rather tedious. Take my advice and go back to writing and spelling properly, please. It's difficult to take you seriously otherwise.

124

 Feb 25, 2013 at 01:54 PM heimisheryid Says:

Reply to #8  
wmsg.boy Says:

There is nothing that any govt. agency can do to stop them harrasing ...Vaad Haznios is not a group affiliated with any Cong or Yeshiva in Willamsburgh or Boro Park or any other orthodox community.
Those vaad members are frum men and lets NOT forget what satmere rebbe said ..
FRUM stand for Feel Rishes Unvynig Mitzvahs...
They have no office or address where you can have those people brough to justice..
They have their meetings in the Mikveh and decide who is the next target ....
But not being associated or affiliated with any Mosdos i believe the Rabunim are very happy with their work because Keeven Deshoske applies here..You never see Der Blatt or Der Yid condemming their work ...
They publish their flyers at any printer and they demonstarte in front of the stores who violates their belief...USA is Freedom of SPEECH so there they GO.....

First, it's not from the Satmarer rebbe.
second i see that u don't know what else the Satmarer rebbe says!
Did u know how much the Satmarer rebbe talked about Tniuyus & Kedusha???
This store is against his beliefs.

125

 Feb 25, 2013 at 01:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
a mother of 3 girls Says:

we all must go out and show support to this new Pastel store!
they have a few locations, I was at their Boro Park store on 13 ave by 41st and they have beautiful stuff!!!!

it looks like u don't live in Willi. this area never tolerate such stores. just across the street was a store for ladies waxing etc, it was protests there, & finally they have to move away. a few years ago, GalPaz opened a store just a few blocks down Lee ave, but in a short time they have to close down.
U know why?
Because will is a from area & such stores is against their beliefs.

126

 Feb 25, 2013 at 04:00 PM anonymous Says:

reply to #125
such stores? how can you compare a beauty salon or a music store that sells CD's of tzinistisha music to a store that sells children's robes?

127

 Feb 25, 2013 at 09:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #76  
Norden Says:

I have read and re-read your comment, Mendel, but I still don't know whether to laugh or to cry over your bigotry and stupidity in this matter.

How is your "daughter of Israel" to know what is available if she has to remain, locked up, at home? The infamous "asifa" banned the use of computer, so ordering over the internet is out. Why should she have to trust her husband's taste in female attire? It might have escaped your notice, Mendel, but even women have basic human rights - whether it suits your misogynistic way of life or not.

There used to be a contributor to VIN who nominated choice comments for what he called "the Annual Shmendrik Awards"; It's a shame he is no longer around because your contribution would sweep the board this year for sheer stupidity and prejudice.

Does you wife know about your opinions in this matter? It is far more probable that you still remain single and lonely at age 50, eking out a miserable and spiteful existence living in your mother's cellar and living off food stamps.

It's incredible that VIN readers don't understand simple sarcasm.

This was intended as a joke, which was obvious to everyone but you!

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