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New York - El Al Says Photo Of Bag-Wearing Man 10 Years Old

Published on: April 14, 2013 10:50 AM
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This photo caused an internet fire storm on many blogs and news site, despite that the photo appears to be a decade old without real detailsThis photo caused an internet fire storm on many blogs and news site, despite that the photo appears to be a decade old without real details

New York - Two different accounts have emerged about an unverified photograph of a chareidi man sitting on an airplane covered in a full length plastic bag that took the internet by storm last week.

According to reports  in The Gothamist, El Al media representative Sheryl Stein said that the picture, which surfaced last week, is not a recent one and may likely be a decade old.

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“[A colleague] remembered this from at least ten years ago,” said Stein.

While many online comments have suggested that the man may have been a Kohein looking to avoid any possibility of contamination when flying over a cemetery, Stein said that the airline specifically rerouted its planes to avoid flying over cemeteries in order to accommodate Kohanim and that to the best of her knowledge the issue is no longer a problem.

Stein’s explanation runs counter to a story that appeared last week in the Israeli newspaper Yated Neeman as described by Israeli news source Kikar Hashabat.

According to the Yated, the story behind the widely circulated picture took place two weeks ago when two Israeli men from Bnei Brak, who were returning from a fundraising trip to London, missed their flight back to Israel on the Friday before Pesach.  While they were able to get seats on the next available flight to Israel, the plane was rerouted to Cyprus after a farewell ceremony in honor of President Obama forced the closure of all Israeli airspace. The pair spent Shabbos in Cyprus where they subsisted on only bread and produce.  Planning their return trip to Israel after Shabbos, just hours before the onset of Pesach, they discovered that all flights from Cyprus back to Tel Aviv flew over the Jewish cemetery in Holon, creating a problem for one of the men who was a Kohein.  Turning to prominent Bnei Brak posek R’ Yitzchak Zilberstein, a son in law of Reb Eliashiv, for advice, the man was told to cover himself with a large plastic bag before the airplane passed over Ben Gurion Airport.

VIN News declined to publish the photograph when it began making the rounds on the internet last week due its lack of verification.

Another picture of a person draped in a plastic bag, this one a white Zaka bag with blue letters, also appeared on The Gothamist with no further information regarding when, or by whom, the photograph had been taken.

Despite its lack of verification, the photo created a flurry of activity on the internet, which Israeli news source Haaretz says first appeared on photo sharing site Imgur and was then linked to by an atheism board on Reddit where it garnered over 2,500 comments.  Haaretz is reporting  that the original photograph received one million views in just two days.

Over the past several days, despite its lack of authentication, the picture has made its way from the social media sites to the news sites including Britain’s The Daily Mail, The Huffington Post, The Daily News, The Jewish Press and Israeli news sites Kikar HaShabbat and YNet News.


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Read Comments (59)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 14, 2013 at 11:02 AM lamdan Says:

From reading the comments on all those sites last week one thing is clear that all people respect us for our religion. Lol

2

 Apr 14, 2013 at 11:26 AM shredready Says:

maybe someone should create an app with all the Jewish cemeteries in the whole world so one can now when flying in a plane when to put on a bag

3

 Apr 14, 2013 at 12:03 PM Galbanum Says:

I thought that כבוד הבריות (human dignity) overrides issurim derabbanan, which includes the issur of a Kohen becoming tamei (since we are all tamei anyway).
Can someone advise about this?

4

 Apr 14, 2013 at 12:23 PM Aryeh Says:

Nice to see the fresh Anti-Semitism from such an old photo, lol!

6

 Apr 14, 2013 at 12:33 PM vbtwo Says:

Wouldn't the plane itself be like a box that the Kohen is in for this halacha? Or does the plane not count for some reason?

7

 Apr 14, 2013 at 12:38 PM ayoyo Says:

So does the tuma extend into outer space?for ever longer?or is there a length limit to tumah? like as high as mt. Everest or one mile more high or 100 or ad ain sof.
miles in the atmosphere?
lets hear from a big poisek

8

 Apr 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

I read the comments on the reddit post. The only thing that is clear is that people redicule us for things like this. Do you really think hashem is sitting on his throne, looking down at a man wrapped in saran wrap and saying "ah yes, that is what I wanted"

9

 Apr 14, 2013 at 12:51 PM Secular Says:

Though not an expert on Taharos, I'm not sure why a bag is necessary inside the airplane. Doesn't the plane fall into the category of 'Shida, Teiva Umigdal' and not subject to the potential Tuma'ah below??

Second, even if he places a bag or covering over himself, isn't there an opening (for air) that would negate the enclosure created by the bag. (unless smaller than shfofreres HaNod)?

Thirdly, the El-Al planes routinely carry coffins in the luggage compartment below. That may require the passenger to wear the bag at all times....

Fourth, why was it a problem landing and not taking off two weeks prior??

10

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:12 PM MosheF Says:

Maybe it's a new Chumra to avoid any possibility of coming in contact with a woman. As such it might be a solution for bus and subway rides too. Just joking of course!

11

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:13 PM ShmutzVesh Says:

You are disgusting.

12

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:17 PM Galbanum Says:

Let's say it's a real halachic issur. A Kohen is forbidden to fly over a cemetery even though he's inside an airplane, and his only option is to wear a plastic bag.
Even if all that is true, what happened to kavod habrios (human dignity). For exampley, if you are wearing shatnez derabbanan, you do not remove have to it in the street, because that's too embarrassing. Why doesn't that principle apply here. There is no need to make a complete a** of yourself just to keep a rabbinc law!

13

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Galbanum Says:

I thought that כבוד הבריות (human dignity) overrides issurim derabbanan, which includes the issur of a Kohen becoming tamei (since we are all tamei anyway).
Can someone advise about this?

how is it not kavod habrios for this man to practice his religious freedom, even if it is a different style of religion than the one you practice?

14

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Secular Says:

Though not an expert on Taharos, I'm not sure why a bag is necessary inside the airplane. Doesn't the plane fall into the category of 'Shida, Teiva Umigdal' and not subject to the potential Tuma'ah below??

Second, even if he places a bag or covering over himself, isn't there an opening (for air) that would negate the enclosure created by the bag. (unless smaller than shfofreres HaNod)?

Thirdly, the El-Al planes routinely carry coffins in the luggage compartment below. That may require the passenger to wear the bag at all times....

Fourth, why was it a problem landing and not taking off two weeks prior??

shfofrefes hanod is big enough for a hand to go through

15

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:37 PM Mark Levin Says:

Reply to #9  
Secular Says:

Though not an expert on Taharos, I'm not sure why a bag is necessary inside the airplane. Doesn't the plane fall into the category of 'Shida, Teiva Umigdal' and not subject to the potential Tuma'ah below??

Second, even if he places a bag or covering over himself, isn't there an opening (for air) that would negate the enclosure created by the bag. (unless smaller than shfofreres HaNod)?

Thirdly, the El-Al planes routinely carry coffins in the luggage compartment below. That may require the passenger to wear the bag at all times....

Fourth, why was it a problem landing and not taking off two weeks prior??

Not all ElAl planes carry maysim. I don't think they carry out of EWR, only JFK. Some scrupulous people are careful to take themselves off a flight that is carrying a meis.

16

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:44 PM shor habor Says:

A godol indeed you are..

17

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:46 PM Anonymous Says:

maybe he died midway and the crew put on a plastic over him.

18

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:56 PM Chavrusa Says:

several comments questioned why the plane itself doesn't count as a 'Shida, Teiva Umigdal' - my chavrusa said its because the plane is a "zaruk" - a moving 'ohel' - which doesn't count as a stationary ohel.

19

 Apr 14, 2013 at 01:58 PM McNut Says:

very nutty shulectz

20

 Apr 14, 2013 at 02:20 PM whateverworks Says:

if a Kohen can stand outside the gates of a cemetery 30 -40 yards away, why when the aircraft is 30,000 feet way does he still need to cover himself??????

21

 Apr 14, 2013 at 02:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Secular Says:

Though not an expert on Taharos, I'm not sure why a bag is necessary inside the airplane. Doesn't the plane fall into the category of 'Shida, Teiva Umigdal' and not subject to the potential Tuma'ah below??

Second, even if he places a bag or covering over himself, isn't there an opening (for air) that would negate the enclosure created by the bag. (unless smaller than shfofreres HaNod)?

Thirdly, the El-Al planes routinely carry coffins in the luggage compartment below. That may require the passenger to wear the bag at all times....

Fourth, why was it a problem landing and not taking off two weeks prior??

1) That is only when thos are stationary. WHich you would have known had you continued reading the sugya there.

2) Not if the hole is smaller than a shiur that would negate it. Typically the size of a pomegranate.

3) It owuld be problem and that is why many cohanim verify whether there is a meis on a flight before boarding Or they travel with an airline that does not transport bodies.

4) it is clear from the circumstances that issue related to specific flights at a certain time.

22

 Apr 14, 2013 at 02:44 PM shredready Says:

Reply to #7  
ayoyo Says:

So does the tuma extend into outer space?for ever longer?or is there a length limit to tumah? like as high as mt. Everest or one mile more high or 100 or ad ain sof.
miles in the atmosphere?
lets hear from a big poisek

there goes my dream of frum space travel

23

 Apr 14, 2013 at 02:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Anyone hear of Photoshop. It's a doctored photo and meant as a joke. Anyone who takes this seriously needs to see a good psychiatrist - or better yet, go to Austria and have a whole group of Freudian experts analyze him.
Sheeeesh - where is the world coming to, when a joke is taken so seriously

24

 Apr 14, 2013 at 02:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Europe is one big cemetery of 6,000,000 dead. Ever hear of a single cohen not going there for business or pleasure?
Give us a break !

25

 Apr 14, 2013 at 02:57 PM Secular Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

shfofrefes hanod is big enough for a hand to go through

I think it's two fingers, not a whole hand...

26

 Apr 14, 2013 at 03:30 PM menash Says:

Reply to #20  
whateverworks Says:

if a Kohen can stand outside the gates of a cemetery 30 -40 yards away, why when the aircraft is 30,000 feet way does he still need to cover himself??????

the tumah goes up till the sky but not sideways so if u stand. outside the gate its not a problem

27

 Apr 14, 2013 at 03:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
whateverworks Says:

if a Kohen can stand outside the gates of a cemetery 30 -40 yards away, why when the aircraft is 30,000 feet way does he still need to cover himself??????

Oy, such a silly questions.

The halocho is that tumah goes up. The lashon is "ad lorokia". It does not go out to the sides, certainly not more than 4 amos. Therefore a Cohen can be on the isde of a cemetery, he however, may not go over a cemetery.

Everyone knows that if a body is in an "ohel" the tumah spreads throughout the ohel. Another rule is that tumah does not then leave the ohel, the ohel prevents it from going further. People assume that the airplane would be an Ohel and would prevent thetumah from penetrating, however the din is that and ohel zaruk, a moving ohel does have a din of ohel for either bringing tumah or preventing tumah. The airplane does not "block" the tumah and the Cohen can become tamei from passsing over the grave. He does not become tomei because of ohel but because he went over the body.

there is another din of tzamud posil, that would not work for tehe airplane itself for a number of reasons that protects from tumah. That is what the Cohanim in the bags are trying to take advantage of. These are dinim deoraysah. just saying kavod habriyos does not suffice. You also have an alternative, do not fly those routes..

28

 Apr 14, 2013 at 03:51 PM AlbertEinstein Says:

Reply to #20  
whateverworks Says:

if a Kohen can stand outside the gates of a cemetery 30 -40 yards away, why when the aircraft is 30,000 feet way does he still need to cover himself??????

Because tum'as hamess spreads vertically (yes, #7, all the way to outer space and beyond), not horizontally (unless the meis is enclosed in a structure whose roof directly over the meis does not have an opening larger than a tefach squared).

That is why in many cemetaries, kohanim are buried at the edge, where there is a surrounding fence higher than 10 tefachim. This allows kohanim mourners to visit the grave without entering the cemtery and becoming tamei.

29

 Apr 14, 2013 at 03:53 PM Galbanum Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

how is it not kavod habrios for this man to practice his religious freedom, even if it is a different style of religion than the one you practice?

You are obviously unaware that kavod habriyos (human dignity) is a halachic concept that is part of Torah Judaism. There are many cases in halachah where one may do an actual issur for the sake of kavod habrios, where it is your own kavod or the kavod of others. Why does that not apply here?

30

 Apr 14, 2013 at 03:58 PM esther Says:

your comment is disgusting.

31

 Apr 14, 2013 at 04:12 PM IJK12 Says:

Reply to #3  
Galbanum Says:

I thought that כבוד הבריות (human dignity) overrides issurim derabbanan, which includes the issur of a Kohen becoming tamei (since we are all tamei anyway).
Can someone advise about this?

Excellent Point!!!

32

 Apr 14, 2013 at 04:17 PM Galbanum Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

Oy, such a silly questions.

The halocho is that tumah goes up. The lashon is "ad lorokia". It does not go out to the sides, certainly not more than 4 amos. Therefore a Cohen can be on the isde of a cemetery, he however, may not go over a cemetery.

Everyone knows that if a body is in an "ohel" the tumah spreads throughout the ohel. Another rule is that tumah does not then leave the ohel, the ohel prevents it from going further. People assume that the airplane would be an Ohel and would prevent thetumah from penetrating, however the din is that and ohel zaruk, a moving ohel does have a din of ohel for either bringing tumah or preventing tumah. The airplane does not "block" the tumah and the Cohen can become tamei from passsing over the grave. He does not become tomei because of ohel but because he went over the body.

there is another din of tzamud posil, that would not work for tehe airplane itself for a number of reasons that protects from tumah. That is what the Cohanim in the bags are trying to take advantage of. These are dinim deoraysah. just saying kavod habriyos does not suffice. You also have an alternative, do not fly those routes..

Thank you for mentioning my point about kavod habriyos. But are you sure that this is a din d'oraisa? Since we are all tamei meis anyway, isn't it only an issur derabbanan for a kohen to "become'' tamei meis?

33

 Apr 14, 2013 at 04:23 PM Secular Says:

But the person in the bag is also moving, so why is the bag better than the plane?

Also if people are buried in accordance to halacha in eretz Yisrael?, why is there Tuma'ah at all, is there not more than a Tefach between the Mes and the ground ?

34

 Apr 14, 2013 at 04:52 PM Secular Says:

Reply to #32  
Galbanum Says:

Thank you for mentioning my point about kavod habriyos. But are you sure that this is a din d'oraisa? Since we are all tamei meis anyway, isn't it only an issur derabbanan for a kohen to "become'' tamei meis?

Would someone please explain, why then is it permitted for a Kohen to visit his wife in the hospital after (or before) she has a baby??, certainly in Jewish hospitals, or hospitals that cater to Jews where there maybe a Mes who would confer Tuma'ah on a Kohen is a real possibility...

35

 Apr 14, 2013 at 05:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Secular Says:

But the person in the bag is also moving, so why is the bag better than the plane?

Also if people are buried in accordance to halacha in eretz Yisrael?, why is there Tuma'ah at all, is there not more than a Tefach between the Mes and the ground ?

Because the Bag is not working because of ohel, it is working as a tzomid posil, which the plane cannot be.

Apparently they are referring to an old beis hakvaros, and there is not a space of a tefach between the meis and the ground above. I am not even sure if it always the case now, depending on which chevra.

36

 Apr 14, 2013 at 05:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Galbanum Says:

Thank you for mentioning my point about kavod habriyos. But are you sure that this is a din d'oraisa? Since we are all tamei meis anyway, isn't it only an issur derabbanan for a kohen to "become'' tamei meis?

Where did you get this that it is only a derabanon?

37

 Apr 14, 2013 at 06:24 PM I_Am_Me Says:

Reply to #6  
vbtwo Says:

Wouldn't the plane itself be like a box that the Kohen is in for this halacha? Or does the plane not count for some reason?

Being that my husband is a Kohein, I know for a fact that its ok to be in a surrounded object, whether its an air plane or a car, & it's okay. In fact when we pass cemeteries we close our windows, we don't get out until we're far enough & it's halachakly ok.

38

 Apr 14, 2013 at 06:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

Oy, such a silly questions.

The halocho is that tumah goes up. The lashon is "ad lorokia". It does not go out to the sides, certainly not more than 4 amos. Therefore a Cohen can be on the isde of a cemetery, he however, may not go over a cemetery.

Everyone knows that if a body is in an "ohel" the tumah spreads throughout the ohel. Another rule is that tumah does not then leave the ohel, the ohel prevents it from going further. People assume that the airplane would be an Ohel and would prevent thetumah from penetrating, however the din is that and ohel zaruk, a moving ohel does have a din of ohel for either bringing tumah or preventing tumah. The airplane does not "block" the tumah and the Cohen can become tamei from passsing over the grave. He does not become tomei because of ohel but because he went over the body.

there is another din of tzamud posil, that would not work for tehe airplane itself for a number of reasons that protects from tumah. That is what the Cohanim in the bags are trying to take advantage of. These are dinim deoraysah. just saying kavod habriyos does not suffice. You also have an alternative, do not fly those routes..

Hey! You must be the guy in the photo.

39

 Apr 14, 2013 at 06:56 PM Secular Says:

Reply to #35  
Anonymous Says:

Because the Bag is not working because of ohel, it is working as a tzomid posil, which the plane cannot be.

Apparently they are referring to an old beis hakvaros, and there is not a space of a tefach between the meis and the ground above. I am not even sure if it always the case now, depending on which chevra.

But why is the plane not Tzomid Pasil, after all it is hermetically sealed which is what Tzomid Pasil means ( A keli that is covered and sealed).

Also the bag is not sealed because he needs to let air in. furthermore when does the bag get placed on the person before they clear airspace or not.

Also the amount of time that (theoretically) one is over the cemetary is probably less than a shiur tuma'ah...no?

40

 Apr 14, 2013 at 08:03 PM Galbanum Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

Where did you get this that it is only a derabanon?

I am ASKING whether it's a derabonon. Since we all presumed to be tamei meis anyway, maybe the issur even for a Kohen is only derabonon (in which case kavod habriyos might be a factor).

41

 Apr 14, 2013 at 08:23 PM Longbeach Says:

Regarding a cohen flying by plane over a bais hakvaros - can someone please explain why there is no heter of "oines" an incident beyond ones control - As once the plane is flying there is way to get off of the plane?

42

 Apr 14, 2013 at 10:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Secular Says:

But why is the plane not Tzomid Pasil, after all it is hermetically sealed which is what Tzomid Pasil means ( A keli that is covered and sealed).

Also the bag is not sealed because he needs to let air in. furthermore when does the bag get placed on the person before they clear airspace or not.

Also the amount of time that (theoretically) one is over the cemetary is probably less than a shiur tuma'ah...no?

A) Because it is made of metal. And I do not know if a plane is hermetically sealed, but that is not the definition any way.

2) There is a shiur for what is called an opening, and thus ran opening that suffices to breathe would not change the tzomid posil.

3) Time Shiur for tumah?

43

 Apr 14, 2013 at 10:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Galbanum Says:

I am ASKING whether it's a derabonon. Since we all presumed to be tamei meis anyway, maybe the issur even for a Kohen is only derabonon (in which case kavod habriyos might be a factor).

They may be considered tamei meis m'safek. This would make them tamei for sure. Who said they can add on to the tumah, or be metamei agin?

44

 Apr 14, 2013 at 10:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Longbeach Says:

Regarding a cohen flying by plane over a bais hakvaros - can someone please explain why there is no heter of "oines" an incident beyond ones control - As once the plane is flying there is way to get off of the plane?

Who said they have to go on th eplane. Are you allowed to put yourself lchatchila in a makom oiness?

Even if it is an oiness, the Cohen becomes tamei. It is only for the shiva krovim and a meis mitzvah that a Cohen can intentionally make himself tamei.

45

 Apr 14, 2013 at 10:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Don't worry guys, the way our brothers in half our communities are going today, we will all be wearing bags by Passover next year.

46

 Apr 15, 2013 at 12:17 AM I_Am_Me Says:

Reply to #15  
Mark Levin Says:

Not all ElAl planes carry maysim. I don't think they carry out of EWR, only JFK. Some scrupulous people are careful to take themselves off a flight that is carrying a meis.

How would they know if the plane was carrying a mes? When my father died & we took him to har hazetim no one knew we had him on the plane. In fact, people asked my brother & uncle to be part of a minyan, which they were not allowed to be. Therefore, I ask again, how do passengers know?

47

 Apr 15, 2013 at 12:19 AM I_Am_Me Says:

Reply to #18  
Chavrusa Says:

several comments questioned why the plane itself doesn't count as a 'Shida, Teiva Umigdal' - my chavrusa said its because the plane is a "zaruk" - a moving 'ohel' - which doesn't count as a stationary ohel.

You don't need to be in a stationary closure, all you need is a closure.

48

 Apr 15, 2013 at 12:20 AM stamm Says:

Reply to #34  
Secular Says:

Would someone please explain, why then is it permitted for a Kohen to visit his wife in the hospital after (or before) she has a baby??, certainly in Jewish hospitals, or hospitals that cater to Jews where there maybe a Mes who would confer Tuma'ah on a Kohen is a real possibility...

, frum kohanim refrain from accompanying or visiting their wives who go to give birth in a jewish Hospital otherwise they do get a heter

49

 Apr 15, 2013 at 12:26 AM Secular Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

A) Because it is made of metal. And I do not know if a plane is hermetically sealed, but that is not the definition any way.

2) There is a shiur for what is called an opening, and thus ran opening that suffices to breathe would not change the tzomid posil.

3) Time Shiur for tumah?

Yes, there is a time shiur for Tuma'ah... look at the Gemara in Shvuos Mishna and Gemara 14a-b

Tzomid Posil means "tightly shut"

50

 Apr 15, 2013 at 12:28 AM Secular Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

Don't worry guys, the way our brothers in half our communities are going today, we will all be wearing bags by Passover next year.

New meaning to the words " half in the bag"

51

 Apr 15, 2013 at 12:28 AM I_Am_Me Says:

Reply to #34  
Secular Says:

Would someone please explain, why then is it permitted for a Kohen to visit his wife in the hospital after (or before) she has a baby??, certainly in Jewish hospitals, or hospitals that cater to Jews where there maybe a Mes who would confer Tuma'ah on a Kohen is a real possibility...

In Israel, we put out a stand with a note when a kohen can't be permitted in the hospital. My husband constantly has to check it since we've been around hospitals a lot. In fact, I wonder why Bet Israel & Maimonodies don't do it since they are known as "Jewish hospitals"

52

 Apr 15, 2013 at 01:28 AM 5TResident Says:

While being this machmir is admirable, it also causes a chilul Hashem and holds Jews and Judaism up to ridicule by Gentiles and shame by fellow Jews. This bag-wearer may have thought he was doing the right thing, but look how much ridicule Jews have endured as a result.

53

 Apr 15, 2013 at 02:54 AM Kohain in the know Says:

Reply to #34  
Secular Says:

Would someone please explain, why then is it permitted for a Kohen to visit his wife in the hospital after (or before) she has a baby??, certainly in Jewish hospitals, or hospitals that cater to Jews where there maybe a Mes who would confer Tuma'ah on a Kohen is a real possibility...

There is a tshuvah in Igros Moshe that addresses this problem. Reb Moshe ZT"L bases his reply on demographics. If the hospital is in a dense Jewish population and there is a likelihood there might be a corpse (like in Miami Beach,) a Kohain may not go to the hospital. If it's someplace in Wyoming it's likely it's permissible. Many hospitals have a morgue in a seperate building. Ask.
Tzamid Psil is by an earthenware vessel only.
A kohain must stand 4 amos (cubits) away from an unfenced grave. He may stand almost next a grave that is fenced off.
Shoferes hanode is a shiur for a hole connecting mikva'os not Tumah.
If there is hole in a wall less than a tefach it is chotzaitz and stops tumah.
Shiur Tumah is only in a Bayis minuga with tzara'as.
Closing the windows in a car in a cemetary makes the side of a car a wall 10 tefachim high as long as the bottom of the car is not 3 tefachim high off the ground. You would still become tumai if you drove over a grave. On the other hand if the car is a tefach high and you passed over a grave the tefach airspace is choitzaitz and you're not tumai as long as the tires do not pass over graves.
Any other questions?

54

 Apr 15, 2013 at 07:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #49  
Secular Says:

Yes, there is a time shiur for Tuma'ah... look at the Gemara in Shvuos Mishna and Gemara 14a-b

Tzomid Posil means "tightly shut"

The shiur referred to in shevuos is not an amount if time to become טמא, for that there is no shiur. It is a shiur in what is considered entering the מקדש בטומאה.

צמיד פסיל does mean tightly shut, but that does not mean herimitically sealed.

55

 Apr 15, 2013 at 07:58 AM Secular Says:

Reply to #53  
Kohain in the know Says:

There is a tshuvah in Igros Moshe that addresses this problem. Reb Moshe ZT"L bases his reply on demographics. If the hospital is in a dense Jewish population and there is a likelihood there might be a corpse (like in Miami Beach,) a Kohain may not go to the hospital. If it's someplace in Wyoming it's likely it's permissible. Many hospitals have a morgue in a seperate building. Ask.
Tzamid Psil is by an earthenware vessel only.
A kohain must stand 4 amos (cubits) away from an unfenced grave. He may stand almost next a grave that is fenced off.
Shoferes hanode is a shiur for a hole connecting mikva'os not Tumah.
If there is hole in a wall less than a tefach it is chotzaitz and stops tumah.
Shiur Tumah is only in a Bayis minuga with tzara'as.
Closing the windows in a car in a cemetary makes the side of a car a wall 10 tefachim high as long as the bottom of the car is not 3 tefachim high off the ground. You would still become tumai if you drove over a grave. On the other hand if the car is a tefach high and you passed over a grave the tefach airspace is choitzaitz and you're not tumai as long as the tires do not pass over graves.
Any other questions?

So what do Kohanim do in NY when they visit their wives in Jewish hospitals, and what kind of Heter do they receive.?

Shiur tumaa'h applies to standing in the mikdash while Tamme, as well as entering a Beis Hakevaros while Tahor (talmud Shevuos 14a-b)

If Tzomid Posil is only on earthenware, how does a bag help?

Shfoferes HaNod is not only used to connect mikvaos but is also a shiur used when allowing access to Tumaah and Tahara of Kelim (vessels), (Talmud Chagiga 22a)

Can you supply Rav Moshe's response....

56

 Apr 15, 2013 at 08:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
5TResident Says:

While being this machmir is admirable, it also causes a chilul Hashem and holds Jews and Judaism up to ridicule by Gentiles and shame by fellow Jews. This bag-wearer may have thought he was doing the right thing, but look how much ridicule Jews have endured as a result.

Following הלכה by definition cannot be חילול ה׳. On the other hand making fun of a הלכה or of a person because he is following the הלכה because YOU find it embarrassing is most definitely classic חילול ה׳, ר״ל.

Talk about skewed perception.

57

 Apr 15, 2013 at 08:17 AM klazno4 Says:

Reply to #9  
Secular Says:

Though not an expert on Taharos, I'm not sure why a bag is necessary inside the airplane. Doesn't the plane fall into the category of 'Shida, Teiva Umigdal' and not subject to the potential Tuma'ah below??

Second, even if he places a bag or covering over himself, isn't there an opening (for air) that would negate the enclosure created by the bag. (unless smaller than shfofreres HaNod)?

Thirdly, the El-Al planes routinely carry coffins in the luggage compartment below. That may require the passenger to wear the bag at all times....

Fourth, why was it a problem landing and not taking off two weeks prior??

To answer all your questions: there is a wonderful shiur by Rav Nissim Kaplan (Mir) about all your questions and why the bag helps and the plane does not. This became an issue 10 years ago when a pilot became frum and let the flight plans 'out of the bag'. (since the flight plans were considered classified) As well as the new Cholon cemetery started accepting jews (I believe that originally it was planned for non-jews only.) I think that this is a link to the shiur http://ravkaplan.dafyomireview.com/cdd/Halacha/cd2/Halacha_060-isur-kohanim_and_kivrei_tzadikim.mp3

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 Apr 15, 2013 at 09:05 AM MarkTwain2 Says:

When the stewardess went around with a large bag collecting trash, was there any confusion as to which garbage bags should be given in? I guess he flew trash class.

59

 Apr 15, 2013 at 09:12 AM MarkTwain2 Says:

Would have loved to hear his answer to TFSA when they asked him: what are you carrying in that bag?

60

 Apr 15, 2013 at 10:59 AM Pipk11 Says:

Reply to #53  
Kohain in the know Says:

There is a tshuvah in Igros Moshe that addresses this problem. Reb Moshe ZT"L bases his reply on demographics. If the hospital is in a dense Jewish population and there is a likelihood there might be a corpse (like in Miami Beach,) a Kohain may not go to the hospital. If it's someplace in Wyoming it's likely it's permissible. Many hospitals have a morgue in a seperate building. Ask.
Tzamid Psil is by an earthenware vessel only.
A kohain must stand 4 amos (cubits) away from an unfenced grave. He may stand almost next a grave that is fenced off.
Shoferes hanode is a shiur for a hole connecting mikva'os not Tumah.
If there is hole in a wall less than a tefach it is chotzaitz and stops tumah.
Shiur Tumah is only in a Bayis minuga with tzara'as.
Closing the windows in a car in a cemetary makes the side of a car a wall 10 tefachim high as long as the bottom of the car is not 3 tefachim high off the ground. You would still become tumai if you drove over a grave. On the other hand if the car is a tefach high and you passed over a grave the tefach airspace is choitzaitz and you're not tumai as long as the tires do not pass over graves.
Any other questions?

so if the airplane is more than a tefach off the ground why should we care? Shouldn't it be like the car? And if for some reason the airplane doesn't protect from tumah how is being in the plastic bag any better?

61

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