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Jerusalem - In Photos-Video: Jewish Women Activists In Confrontation At Western Wall

Published on: May 10, 2013 08:59 AM
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A Jewish orthodox women follows a prayer organized by the "Women of the Wall" organization, not pictured, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem's old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)A Jewish orthodox women follows a prayer organized by the "Women of the Wall" organization, not pictured, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem's old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)

Jerusalem - Israeli police held back thousands of ultra-conservative Jews who tried to drive liberal women worshippers from Judaism’s sacred Western Wall on Friday, marking a shift in the authorities’ handling of a long-running religious schism.

Ultra-Orthodox protesters dressed in traditional dark clothing threw chairs and water at the women, then later stoned their buses. Two policemen were hurt.

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Friday’s prayers were the first in weeks in which police avoided any showdown with Women of the Wall, whose members have been detained in the past and charged with disruption for violating Orthodox traditions at a holysite. They are seeking a greater role in prayer ritual.

“I’m seeing signs of progress,” one woman worshipper, Lisa Kainan, said about the police presence at the site.

An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man holds a placard as he protests against members the "Women of the Wall" group during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site. The placard reads, " Good morning and happy and blessed new month to the clowns of the Western Wall"  (Credit: REUTERS)An ultra-Orthodox Jewish man holds a placard as he protests against members the "Women of the Wall" group during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site. The placard reads, " Good morning and happy and blessed new month to the clowns of the Western Wall"  (Credit: REUTERS)
Members of "Women of the Wall" group wear prayer shawls and one (C) wearing Tefillin, leather straps and boxes containing sacred parchments, that Orthodox law says only men should don, during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)Members of "Women of the Wall" group wear prayer shawls and one (C) wearing Tefillin, leather straps and boxes containing sacred parchments, that Orthodox law says only men should don, during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)
A member of "Women of the Wall" group (2nd R) wears a prayer shawl and Tefillin, leather straps and boxes containing sacred parchments, that Orthodox law says only men should don, during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site. (Credit: REUTERS)A member of "Women of the Wall" group (2nd R) wears a prayer shawl and Tefillin, leather straps and boxes containing sacred parchments, that Orthodox law says only men should don, during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site. (Credit: REUTERS)
Israeli policemen block ultra-Orthodox Jewish women as members of "Women of the Wall" group (not pictured) leave the Western Wall after a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)Israeli policemen block ultra-Orthodox Jewish women as members of "Women of the Wall" group (not pictured) leave the Western Wall after a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)
A member of "Women of the Wall" group wears a prayer shawl and Tefillin, leather straps and boxes containing sacred parchments, that Orthodox law says only men should don, during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month, the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)A member of "Women of the Wall" group wears a prayer shawl and Tefillin, leather straps and boxes containing sacred parchments, that Orthodox law says only men should don, during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month, the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)
An Israeli policeman (L) holds back ultra-Orthodox Jewish men as they protest against the "Women of the Wall" group during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)An Israeli policeman (L) holds back ultra-Orthodox Jewish men as they protest against the "Women of the Wall" group during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)
An Israeli policewoman (R) holds back ultra-Orthodox Jewish men as they protest against the "Women of the Wall" group during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)An Israeli policewoman (R) holds back ultra-Orthodox Jewish men as they protest against the "Women of the Wall" group during a monthly prayer session at the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City May 10, 2013. An Israeli police spokesman said on Friday that five ultra-Orthodox Jewish men were detained during a protest against the group. Last month the Jerusalem District Court said that the women should not be arrested for wearing prayer shawls at the site.  (Credit: REUTERS)
Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and girls on stairs leading from the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City down to the Western Wall as they watch brawls between police and ultra-Orthodox Jews who protest over a group of refor Jewish women calling themselves 'Women of the Wall' holding prayers near the Western Wall, Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. (Credit: EPA)Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and girls on stairs leading from the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem’s Old City down to the Western Wall as they watch brawls between police and ultra-Orthodox Jews who protest over a group of refor Jewish women calling themselves ‘Women of the Wall’ holding prayers near the Western Wall, Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. (Credit: EPA)
An Israeli policeman arrests an ultra-Orthodox Jew outside the Old City walls near the Dung Gate after scuffles on the Western Wall plaza, in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. Earlier in the day, police separated ultra-Orthodox Jews from a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves 'Women of the Wall' as they held a prayer session near the Western Wall complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. (Credit: EPA)An Israeli policeman arrests an ultra-Orthodox Jew outside the Old City walls near the Dung Gate after scuffles on the Western Wall plaza, in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. Earlier in the day, police separated ultra-Orthodox Jews from a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves ‘Women of the Wall’ as they held a prayer session near the Western Wall complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. (Credit: EPA)
Ultra-orthodox Jewish people gather during a protest against a prayer organized by the "Women of the Wall" organization, not pictured, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem's old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. The "Women of the Wall" group has been holding monthly prayer services on the first day of the Hebrew month at the Western Wall in Jerusalem for more than two decades, wearing prayer shawls and performing religious rituals reserved for men under Orthodox Judaism. Accused by ultra-Orthodox leaders of violating "local custom" at the holy site, many members have been arrested. On Friday the tables were turned because of the court ruling. Police protected the women and arrested three ultra-Orthodox men for disorderly conduct, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. (Credit: AP)Ultra-orthodox Jewish people gather during a protest against a prayer organized by the "Women of the Wall" organization, not pictured, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem’s old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. The "Women of the Wall" group has been holding monthly prayer services on the first day of the Hebrew month at the Western Wall in Jerusalem for more than two decades, wearing prayer shawls and performing religious rituals reserved for men under Orthodox Judaism. Accused by ultra-Orthodox leaders of violating "local custom" at the holy site, many members have been arrested. On Friday the tables were turned because of the court ruling. Police protected the women and arrested three ultra-Orthodox men for disorderly conduct, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. (Credit: AP)
A Jewish orthodox woman prays while Israeli security forces make a human barrier to separate ultra-orthodox Jewish worshippers from the "Women of the Wall" group, not pictured, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem's old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. The "Women of the Wall" group has been holding monthly prayer services on the first day of the Hebrew month at the Western Wall in Jerusalem for more than two decades, wearing prayer shawls and performing religious rituals reserved for men under Orthodox Judaism. Accused by ultra-Orthodox leaders of violating "local custom" at the holy site, many members have been arrested. On Friday the tables were turned because of the court ruling. Police protected the women and arrested three ultra-Orthodox men for disorderly conduct, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. (Credit: AP)A Jewish orthodox woman prays while Israeli security forces make a human barrier to separate ultra-orthodox Jewish worshippers from the "Women of the Wall" group, not pictured, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem’s old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. The "Women of the Wall" group has been holding monthly prayer services on the first day of the Hebrew month at the Western Wall in Jerusalem for more than two decades, wearing prayer shawls and performing religious rituals reserved for men under Orthodox Judaism. Accused by ultra-Orthodox leaders of violating "local custom" at the holy site, many members have been arrested. On Friday the tables were turned because of the court ruling. Police protected the women and arrested three ultra-Orthodox men for disorderly conduct, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. (Credit: AP)
A Jewish women from the "Women of the Wall" organization, leads a prayer, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem's old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. The "Women of the Wall" group has been holding monthly prayer services on the first day of the Hebrew month at the Western Wall in Jerusalem for more than two decades, wearing prayer shawls and performing religious rituals reserved for men under Orthodox Judaism. Accused by ultra-Orthodox leaders of violating "local custom" at the holy site, many members have been arrested. On Friday the tables were turned because of the court ruling. Police protected the women and arrested three ultra-Orthodox men for disorderly conduct, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. (Credit: ASSOCIATED PRESS)A Jewish women from the "Women of the Wall" organization, leads a prayer, at the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray in Jerusalem’s old city, Friday, May 10, 2013. The "Women of the Wall" group has been holding monthly prayer services on the first day of the Hebrew month at the Western Wall in Jerusalem for more than two decades, wearing prayer shawls and performing religious rituals reserved for men under Orthodox Judaism. Accused by ultra-Orthodox leaders of violating "local custom" at the holy site, many members have been arrested. On Friday the tables were turned because of the court ruling. Police protected the women and arrested three ultra-Orthodox men for disorderly conduct, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. (Credit: ASSOCIATED PRESS)
Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and girls on stairs leading from the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City down to the Western Wall as they watch brawls between police and ultra-Orthodox Jews who protest over a group of refor Jewish women calling themselves 'Women of the Wall' holding prayers near the Western Wall, Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. (Credit: EPA)Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and girls on stairs leading from the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem’s Old City down to the Western Wall as they watch brawls between police and ultra-Orthodox Jews who protest over a group of refor Jewish women calling themselves ‘Women of the Wall’ holding prayers near the Western Wall, Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. (Credit: EPA)
An Israeli policeman arrests an ultra-Orthodox Jew outside the Old City walls near the Dung Gate after scuffles on the Western Wall plaza, in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. Earlier in the day, police separated ultra-Orthodox Jews from a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves 'Women of the Wall' as they held a prayer session near the Western Wall complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. (Credit: EPA)An Israeli policeman arrests an ultra-Orthodox Jew outside the Old City walls near the Dung Gate after scuffles on the Western Wall plaza, in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. Earlier in the day, police separated ultra-Orthodox Jews from a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves ‘Women of the Wall’ as they held a prayer session near the Western Wall complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. (Credit: EPA)
Israeli police scuffle with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish man on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013, as a reform group of Jewish women calling themselves the Women of the Wall held a morning prayer session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jews, who see the women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)Israeli police scuffle with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish man on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013, as a reform group of Jewish women calling themselves the Women of the Wall held a morning prayer session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jews, who see the women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)
Orthodox Jewish girls link arms as they pray facing the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City, 10 May 2013,  nearby a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves the 'Women of the Wall', who wear yarmulkes and prayers shawls during prayer. Thousands of religious Jewish women heeded rabbis' calls and came out to hold prayers against the Women of the Wall. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, who see the reform women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated.  EPA/JIM HOLLANDER (Credit: EPA)Orthodox Jewish girls link arms as they pray facing the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City, 10 May 2013,  nearby a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves the ‘Women of the Wall’, who wear yarmulkes and prayers shawls during prayer. Thousands of religious Jewish women heeded rabbis’ calls and came out to hold prayers against the Women of the Wall. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, who see the reform women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated.  EPA/JIM HOLLANDER (Credit: EPA)
Ultra-Orthodox Jews spit and hit the windows of a bus carrying reform Jewish women, and other Israelis, who had prayed at the Western Wall, as they leave the area near the Dung Gate, Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis' calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women, who wear prayers shawls, or 'talit', as men do during prayer. The Women of the Wall have been coming to the Western Wall to hold prayers at the beginning of each new month, and on 10 May, larges brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)Ultra-Orthodox Jews spit and hit the windows of a bus carrying reform Jewish women, and other Israelis, who had prayed at the Western Wall, as they leave the area near the Dung Gate, Jerusalem, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis’ calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women, who wear prayers shawls, or ‘talit’, as men do during prayer. The Women of the Wall have been coming to the Western Wall to hold prayers at the beginning of each new month, and on 10 May, larges brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)
Orthodox Jewish girls pray on the Western Wall plaza facing the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City, 10 May 2013, nearby a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves the Women of the Wall, who also pray but wear yarmulkes and prayers shawls. Thousands of religious Jewish women heeded rabbis calls and came out to hold prayers against the Women of the Wall.  Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, who see the reform women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. The men's section of the Wall is to the left, where young men dance in a large circle, and the women's field with the orthodox Jewish young women is to the right. (Credit: EPA)Orthodox Jewish girls pray on the Western Wall plaza facing the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City, 10 May 2013, nearby a group of reform Jewish women calling themselves the Women of the Wall, who also pray but wear yarmulkes and prayers shawls. Thousands of religious Jewish women heeded rabbis calls and came out to hold prayers against the Women of the Wall.  Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, who see the reform women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. The men’s section of the Wall is to the left, where young men dance in a large circle, and the women’s field with the orthodox Jewish young women is to the right. (Credit: EPA)
Orthodox Jewish men blow whistles as they face a line of Israeli riot police near the Western Wall in Jerusalem's Old City, 10 May 2013, nearby a group of reform Jewish women, calling themselves the Women of the Wall, who also prayed, wearing yarmulkes and prayer shawls.   Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, who see the reform women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)Orthodox Jewish men blow whistles as they face a line of Israeli riot police near the Western Wall in Jerusalem’s Old City, 10 May 2013, nearby a group of reform Jewish women, calling themselves the Women of the Wall, who also prayed, wearing yarmulkes and prayer shawls.  Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, who see the reform women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)
Israeli riot police scuffle with ultra-Orthodox Jews on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013, as the reform group called Women of the Wall held a morning prayer session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jews, who see the women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)Israeli riot police scuffle with ultra-Orthodox Jews on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013, as the reform group called Women of the Wall held a morning prayer session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jews, who see the women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism, and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)
Israeli riot police scuffle with ultra-Orthodox Jews on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013, as a plastic chair comes flying towards them. The Women of the Wall, a group of reform Jewish women, held a morning prayer session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jews who see the women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)Israeli riot police scuffle with ultra-Orthodox Jews on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, 10 May 2013, as a plastic chair comes flying towards them. The Women of the Wall, a group of reform Jewish women, held a morning prayer session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Huge brawls broke out between ultra-Orthodox Jews who see the women as a sacrilege to pure Judaism and the police, who kept the two sides separated. (Credit: EPA)
An Ultra-Orthodox Jews slams the window of a bus carrying reform Jewish women and other Israelis, who had prayed at the Western Wall, as they leave the area near the Dung Gate, Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women who don't wear prayer shawls, or 'talits', as men do in order to pray. The Women of the Wall have been coming to the Western Wall to hold prayers at the beginning of each new month, and today large brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)An Ultra-Orthodox Jews slams the window of a bus carrying reform Jewish women and other Israelis, who had prayed at the Western Wall, as they leave the area near the Dung Gate, Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women who don’t wear prayer shawls, or ‘talits’, as men do in order to pray. The Women of the Wall have been coming to the Western Wall to hold prayers at the beginning of each new month, and today large brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)
Israeli  Border Police try to stop an  Ultra-Orthodox man who tries to interfere with the Women of the Wall group during their monthly prayer at the  beginning of a new Jewish month at the   Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)Israeli Border Police try to stop an Ultra-Orthodox man who tries to interfere with the Women of the Wall group during their monthly prayer at the beginning of a new Jewish month at the   Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)
Women of the Wall members, wearing their prayer shawls pray during their monthly prayer at the beginning of a new Jewish month, at the Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)Women of the Wall members, wearing their prayer shawls pray during their monthly prayer at the beginning of a new Jewish month, at the Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)
Ultra-Orthodox women are blocked by Israeli police while the group Women of the Wall leave the Western Wall compound after having their monthly prayer at the  beginning of a new Jewish month at the Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)Ultra-Orthodox women are blocked by Israeli police while the group Women of the Wall leave the Western Wall compound after having their monthly prayer at the beginning of a new Jewish month at the Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)
Ultra-Orthodox women pray at the Western Wall compound  in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)Ultra-Orthodox women pray at the Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)
Israeli  Border Police try to stop an  Ultra-Orthodox man who tries to interfere with the Women of the Wall group during their monthly prayer at the  beginning of a new Jewish month at the   Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)Israeli Border Police try to stop an Ultra-Orthodox man who tries to interfere with the Women of the Wall group during their monthly prayer at the beginning of a new Jewish month at the   Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)
An Orthodox woman prays at the Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)An Orthodox woman prays at the Western Wall compound in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men and women came to protest against the prayers of the Women of the Wall group. (Credit: EPA)
Israeli riot police scuffle with ultra-Orthodox Jews on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013, as Women of the Wall hold a morning prayers session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women who form the group Women of the Wall, who have been coming to the Western Wall to pray at the beginning of each new month, according to the Jewish calendar, and large brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)Israeli riot police scuffle with ultra-Orthodox Jews on the plaza of the Western Wall in Jerusalem, Israel, 10 May 2013, as Women of the Wall hold a morning prayers session nearby, complete with prayer shawls, yarmulkes and singing. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women who form the group Women of the Wall, who have been coming to the Western Wall to pray at the beginning of each new month, according to the Jewish calendar, and large brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)
Ultra-Orthodox Jews attack a bus carrying reform Jewish women, and other Israelis, who had prayed at the Western Wall, in Jerusalem, Israel, as they leave the area near the Dung Gate, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women who don prayers shawls, or 'talit', as men do in order to prayer. The Women of the Wall have been coming to the Western Wall to hold prayers at the beginning of each new month, and large brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)Ultra-Orthodox Jews attack a bus carrying reform Jewish women, and other Israelis, who had prayed at the Western Wall, in Jerusalem, Israel, as they leave the area near the Dung Gate, 10 May 2013. Thousands of ultra-Orthodox girls heeded their rabbis calls to come to the Western Wall to pray against the several dozen reform Jewish women who don prayers shawls, or ‘talit’, as men do in order to prayer. The Women of the Wall have been coming to the Western Wall to hold prayers at the beginning of each new month, and large brawls broke out as police battled to keep the two sides apart. (Credit: EPA)


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Read Comments (91)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 10, 2013 at 09:07 AM ExpatriateOwl Says:

"Ultra-conservative?"

2

 May 10, 2013 at 09:21 AM Anonymous Says:

why do good frum girls need to be exposed to such trash they would be better off in school learning, and if the buchrim want to know how to help they should do what the Gemara says "Hashkem .... L'Bais HaMedresh....." learn, Give Tzdaka, and be MeKarev the unlearned thru Ahavas Yisroel. and to the Rabbanim if they would get out off politics and think about "ERETZ YISROEL" it would also help.

3

 May 10, 2013 at 09:28 AM Avi Says:

I can understand why the Gedolim allowed the Heimishe girls to go there and make such fools of themselves. We all came away from there, looking like frustrated angry fighters.

4

 May 10, 2013 at 09:37 AM Whip em out Wednesday Says:

Sounds like the WOW group Stole their name from a radio show.

5

 May 10, 2013 at 09:38 AM ALTERG Says:

& isreal govermen are sticking for this few women of the guyim???? Let them move to india, isreal is the hardess way to observe mitzvos or lerning torah

6

 May 10, 2013 at 09:38 AM heeb Says:

Correct me if I am wrong.......but aren't even goyim allowed to come to the beis hamikdash to bring korbanos?? Doesn't the pasuk say somethibg like 'ki beisi beis tefilla yikareh lechol ha'amim'?????

7

 May 10, 2013 at 09:48 AM VeyIzMir Says:

WoW = Women Off The Wall!

Q: What do you call these women who pray with Tallit and Tefillin at the Kotel?

A: Wallnuts!

8

 May 10, 2013 at 09:48 AM Upset Says:

This protest is the right thing to do. The police were not wearing helmets which shows that the protest was non-violent. These women (WOW) have no right to dictate Jewish law. Judaism is the word of G-d and is not liberalism or democracy. Millions of Jews sacrificed their lives throughout the millennia to preserve the Torah. These women have no right to desecrate this holy sight, to defy the Torah, and disgrace the holy sacrifices made by our ancestors. If they have problems with Judaism then they should go to their local reform temple and do their thing but don't impose their impurity upon those who want to follow the Torah. This is truly mil-chem-as Hashem. Kol Hakovod to the protesters!

9

 May 10, 2013 at 09:49 AM Haredi and proud of it! Too bad! Says:

Disgusting farshtinkineh israel! Satmar rebbe was correct (i finally realize) about not going to the kotel, about not voting, about sounding the alarm on the israeli govt. Yes they do hate the jewish religion! They dont mind the jewish identity. That makes them dangerous! For the sake of "freedom" for a few they are ready to trample on the jewish religion! Now enough with the hatefull b"s here on vin. If you hate your religion dont represent it! Write your affiliation and observance before writing how bad the torah is! Reformers, christians, welcome to post but only in your religions identity. Ive had enough of being shamed and rediculed at every opportunity just because many vin pisters i meant posters try at every opportunity to drive me under covers!

Perhaps vin should change win. At least be genuine at your intentions.

Listen bros. Im done hiding under the blankets due to your hate of my religion (proven by not missing any opportunity to bash anything even remotely connected to it.

Now my frustration boiled over because of "freedom of religion" rather than "religious freedom" which vin professes as well, (no pro religious articles even by mistake) and which commentators constantly do. (i think even my non haredi bros agree, if not in denial)

Whew do i feel better now!

10

 May 10, 2013 at 09:55 AM chosid Says:

What purpose did this confrontation serve? These jokers are obviously not sincere, why bring them attention?

11

 May 10, 2013 at 09:56 AM joeynathan Says:

i wonder what parents are saying about there boys who should be learning and instead are protesting

12

 May 10, 2013 at 10:02 AM bewhiskered Says:

"Ultra-Orthodox protesters dressed in traditional dark clothing threw chairs and water at the women, then later stoned their buses. Two policemen were hurt."

Yes, of course, it was the usual חילול שם שמים בפני עם ועדה! What else could anyone expect? Pathetic!

13

 May 10, 2013 at 10:11 AM clear-thinker Says:

Reply to #5  
ALTERG Says:

& isreal govermen are sticking for this few women of the guyim???? Let them move to india, isreal is the hardess way to observe mitzvos or lerning torah

Alterg, you were doing so much better. You really have to breath deeply before writing. Ok lets practice...Israel...government...learning...keep trying. Welcome back to the internet. I only hope your Rebbe doesn't think you too much of an apikores.
Just in passing, why the interest in India? Are you considering a trip?

14

 May 10, 2013 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:

As I don't agree about women wearing tallits, tefflins etc.. but there is

15

 May 10, 2013 at 10:22 AM Anonymous Says:

I don't agree with women wearing tefflin and tallits, i just leave them alone. There is NO EXCUSE

16

 May 10, 2013 at 10:24 AM RGK Says:

those men need to grow up and leave them alone. are they trying to force them to leave Judaism by their behavior. ill make sure that none of my daughters marrying those men of their own kind of observance. So embarrassing! If i was asked, i would say embarrassing!

17

 May 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM AlterHacker Says:

Reply to #6  
heeb Says:

Correct me if I am wrong.......but aren't even goyim allowed to come to the beis hamikdash to bring korbanos?? Doesn't the pasuk say somethibg like 'ki beisi beis tefilla yikareh lechol ha'amim'?????

NO! Goyim are not permited into the Beis-Hamikdosh since they are Tomei, howevere they can have a Korbon-Oilo offered on their behalf.

18

 May 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:

we are such a torn ppl omg

19

 May 10, 2013 at 10:33 AM Butterfly Says:

Why are the "religious" men throwing things? Aren't they supposed to be davening? Should the men have ignored them instead? .........

20

 May 10, 2013 at 10:39 AM True Clarity Says:

Reply to #12  
bewhiskered Says:

"Ultra-Orthodox protesters dressed in traditional dark clothing threw chairs and water at the women, then later stoned their buses. Two policemen were hurt."

Yes, of course, it was the usual חילול שם שמים בפני עם ועדה! What else could anyone expect? Pathetic!

To the contrary the Ribono Shel Oilam looks down from shomayim and probably says "in the past klal yisrael stoned zecharia hanavi in the bais hamikdosh, a Navi who came to promote ruchniyus, today they stone those who trample on ruchniyus - Ashrecha yisrael!!"

21

 May 10, 2013 at 10:44 AM heeb Says:

Reply to #7  
VeyIzMir Says:

WoW = Women Off The Wall!

Q: What do you call these women who pray with Tallit and Tefillin at the Kotel?

A: Wallnuts!

Ha!!! Good one!

22

 May 10, 2013 at 10:45 AM Anonymous Says:

If you see the video you'll see that one of the woman literally wore the tephillin over her eyes.

Since these woman want to destroy the mechitza from the kosel Rav Yoshe Ber would hold their trying to place a church there.

23

 May 10, 2013 at 10:59 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Haredi and proud of it! Too bad! Says:

Disgusting farshtinkineh israel! Satmar rebbe was correct (i finally realize) about not going to the kotel, about not voting, about sounding the alarm on the israeli govt. Yes they do hate the jewish religion! They dont mind the jewish identity. That makes them dangerous! For the sake of "freedom" for a few they are ready to trample on the jewish religion! Now enough with the hatefull b"s here on vin. If you hate your religion dont represent it! Write your affiliation and observance before writing how bad the torah is! Reformers, christians, welcome to post but only in your religions identity. Ive had enough of being shamed and rediculed at every opportunity just because many vin pisters i meant posters try at every opportunity to drive me under covers!

Perhaps vin should change win. At least be genuine at your intentions.

Listen bros. Im done hiding under the blankets due to your hate of my religion (proven by not missing any opportunity to bash anything even remotely connected to it.

Now my frustration boiled over because of "freedom of religion" rather than "religious freedom" which vin professes as well, (no pro religious articles even by mistake) and which commentators constantly do. (i think even my non haredi bros agree, if not in denial)

Whew do i feel better now!

If all shomer Shabbos jews would vote for a truly frum party this never would have happened.

24

 May 10, 2013 at 11:00 AM Jewish Thought Says:

What these women are doing, I agree its offensive and disgraceful. They are doing it because they want to push our buttons and make a mockery out of our culture. I do not understand how something like this can happen, but the world has become a very sensitive place and everyone thinks they can express themselves how they want. BUT at the same time this protesting and chilul hashem is NOT who we are as a people and a nation. We are Klal Yisroel, we DO NOT throw rocks at buses or throw chairs at other people, for we are not as every other nation in this world. Take pride and respect who we are. Learn torah, Do mitzvahs, and MOST importantly the only reason why this world was created is AHAVAS YISROEL. If we do all three, this would and will not happen.

25

 May 10, 2013 at 11:06 AM Anonymous Says:

"Ultra-Orthodox protesters dressed in traditional dark clothing threw chairs and water at the women, then later stoned their buses."

This is yiddishkeit? While the WOWs are wrong, this is even worse.

26

 May 10, 2013 at 11:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Upset Says:

This protest is the right thing to do. The police were not wearing helmets which shows that the protest was non-violent. These women (WOW) have no right to dictate Jewish law. Judaism is the word of G-d and is not liberalism or democracy. Millions of Jews sacrificed their lives throughout the millennia to preserve the Torah. These women have no right to desecrate this holy sight, to defy the Torah, and disgrace the holy sacrifices made by our ancestors. If they have problems with Judaism then they should go to their local reform temple and do their thing but don't impose their impurity upon those who want to follow the Torah. This is truly mil-chem-as Hashem. Kol Hakovod to the protesters!

Amen!

27

 May 10, 2013 at 11:14 AM sheepheadsbayyid Says:

so upset about the wow but not willing to lift a finger to protect the kotel from Arabs If you do not want to protect it then you have no right to dictate who should go there

28

 May 10, 2013 at 11:16 AM Shemp Says:

Reply to #12  
bewhiskered Says:

"Ultra-Orthodox protesters dressed in traditional dark clothing threw chairs and water at the women, then later stoned their buses. Two policemen were hurt."

Yes, of course, it was the usual חילול שם שמים בפני עם ועדה! What else could anyone expect? Pathetic!

Why aren't you complaining about the chillul HASHEM that theses Wallnuts are bringing to Jews? HUH??

29

 May 10, 2013 at 11:33 AM NotSoFrum Says:

I think this violence at the Kotel between Jews is just awful. The Kotel should be open to all Jews. If these women want to daven on the women's side, why should they not be allowed to daven? Whether we like it or not, these women are Jews and we should stop calling them something other than Jews. They may be doing things and observing practices that don't look Jewish to us, but they are Jews nonetheless (by blood). If they jumped back on the derech (however that might be defined), there would be and should be no question as to their Jewishness. Let's stop the hate. You may not agree with what they are doing, but they can talk to Hashem too. So keep your eyes focused on the men's side of the mechitza and you'll have no problem. Should you be looking at and inspecting women anyway?

30

 May 10, 2013 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Whip em out Wednesday Says:

Sounds like the WOW group Stole their name from a radio show.

Someone hasn't been listening for a few years. They haven't done wow since krock.

31

 May 10, 2013 at 11:39 AM Mergatroid Says:

Reply to #12  
bewhiskered Says:

"Ultra-Orthodox protesters dressed in traditional dark clothing threw chairs and water at the women, then later stoned their buses. Two policemen were hurt."

Yes, of course, it was the usual חילול שם שמים בפני עם ועדה! What else could anyone expect? Pathetic!

Hey am horetz, stop making believe your smart by writing in Hebrew you phony. These woman a not Jewish anyway. They are making a Chillul Hashem by dressing up as Jew and even wearing t'fillin Gee I'm swooning from their frumkeit.

32

 May 10, 2013 at 11:40 AM godol hador Says:

Reply to #4  
Whip em out Wednesday Says:

Sounds like the WOW group Stole their name from a radio show.

WOW 102.7 Opie and 'Anthoney

33

 May 10, 2013 at 12:06 PM TruthBeTold Says:

These WOW feminist she-males do not belong at the Kotel. The WOW freaks of nature belong on a psychiatrist's couch where they can be analyzed and studied as bizarre mutations lacking any gender identity.

34

 May 10, 2013 at 12:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Do the woman of off the wall daven every day of the week with tallis and tefellin?
Bet they don't.

35

 May 10, 2013 at 12:31 PM whip em out Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

Someone hasn't been listening for a few years. They haven't done wow since krock.

Yeah but the bumper stickers are still around.

36

 May 10, 2013 at 12:32 PM Whip em out Says:

Reply to #32  
godol hador Says:

WOW 102.7 Opie and 'Anthoney

True Gadlus!!

37

 May 10, 2013 at 12:39 PM Rabbi Avitala Says:

The Torah always tried to Accomodate Women and Men in special situations. Today's women are not homebound with laundry and cooking as they were in the times of the Torah. Therfore the Torah would have surely accomodated us by including us women in all Mitzvohs.
Typical example is Bnos Tzelofchod, Moshe didn't just dimiss them, he went to ask God, and God said, 'Sure will just bend the rules a little bit to accomodate them'. Same is with the Bnei Yosef, and the people who were Tomei for the Korbon Pesach, so they got a Pesach Sheni.

38

 May 10, 2013 at 12:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
heeb Says:

Correct me if I am wrong.......but aren't even goyim allowed to come to the beis hamikdash to bring korbanos?? Doesn't the pasuk say somethibg like 'ki beisi beis tefilla yikareh lechol ha'amim'?????

yes they are but they can only bring a korban that follows halacha. These clown came to makom hashchina - Hashems home kivayochel in a manner that He is disgusted with. Why these bums like tallis and tefilin but don't seem to comform with any other mitzvos is baffling. They just want ATTENTION- they care not about prayer or Hashem.

39

 May 10, 2013 at 01:03 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #31  
Mergatroid Says:

Hey am horetz, stop making believe your smart by writing in Hebrew you phony. These woman a not Jewish anyway. They are making a Chillul Hashem by dressing up as Jew and even wearing t'fillin Gee I'm swooning from their frumkeit.

"Hey am horetz, stop making believe your smart by writing in Hebrew you phony."

Oh, that's really impressive, Sherlock! Just because you're such an illiterate and cannot read לשון הקודש is no excuse to get your dander up! Like other lamentable and pathetic עמי הארץ, you make ridiculous statements such as, "These woman a not Jewish anyway," and are not even aware of the גמרא of קידושין ס"ח ע"ב, which openly states:

א"ר יוחנן משום ר"ש בן יוחי דאמר קרא (דברים ז) כי יסיר את בנך מאחרי בנך הבא מישראלית קרוי בנך.

For a dunce such yourself, this means that the issue of a Jewish woman can only be Jewish- nothing else! You speak כנגד כל התורה כולה, and have the unmitigated nerve to refer to another as an עם הארץ. I'll wager that even the WOW's are aware that anyone with a natural Jewish mother cannot be anything but Jewish! You of course, are not aware of anything but being an ignoramus! You undoubtedly possess more nerve than brain! Idiot!

40

 May 10, 2013 at 01:04 PM dave11 Says:

The thing is that most of these women of the wall are just strange, i think its like with any of these wackos the more attention you give them the more they grow.

Ignore them (obviously not saying not to do anything at all rather just quiet effective actions rather than loud protests)and they disappear.

41

 May 10, 2013 at 01:04 PM Facts1 Says:

Religion is not a democracy, this is exactly the kind of thing the "חשמונאים" fought. Yes they armed and fought hard against any attempt from anyone to interject into their religion or their holy places. It's one thing when they do their thing in any country, but in Israel at the western wall.

On a practical note!
These troubled WOW need to be barred, they are creating havoc and playing with the sensitive feelings of the majority of people visiting the Kotel, they have no origin, they are a cult.

42

 May 10, 2013 at 01:05 PM posaikacharon Says:

"WOW" is the trademark of video games called World Of Warfare. Just pointing out that their agenda is identical.

43

 May 10, 2013 at 01:08 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #28  
Shemp Says:

Why aren't you complaining about the chillul HASHEM that theses Wallnuts are bringing to Jews? HUH??

"Why aren't you complaining about the chillul HASHEM that theses Wallnuts are bringing to Jews? HUH??"

Because Shemp, these women do not know any better, while the rock and water throwers ought to know about חילול שם שמים! HUH??"

44

 May 10, 2013 at 01:10 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #20  
True Clarity Says:

To the contrary the Ribono Shel Oilam looks down from shomayim and probably says "in the past klal yisrael stoned zecharia hanavi in the bais hamikdosh, a Navi who came to promote ruchniyus, today they stone those who trample on ruchniyus - Ashrecha yisrael!!"

"To the contrary the Ribono Shel Oilam looks down from shomayim and probably says "in the past klal yisrael stoned zecharia hanavi in the bais hamikdosh....."

And, you of course, know exactly what is in the mind of the בורא עלמא, right True Clarity? You are more pathetic than the lamentable WOW's!

45

 May 10, 2013 at 01:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
heeb Says:

Correct me if I am wrong.......but aren't even goyim allowed to come to the beis hamikdash to bring korbanos?? Doesn't the pasuk say somethibg like 'ki beisi beis tefilla yikareh lechol ha'amim'?????

Maybe so, but it has to be done within halachic parameters

46

 May 10, 2013 at 01:29 PM ShmuelG Says:

Reply to #16  
RGK Says:

those men need to grow up and leave them alone. are they trying to force them to leave Judaism by their behavior. ill make sure that none of my daughters marrying those men of their own kind of observance. So embarrassing! If i was asked, i would say embarrassing!

"are they trying to force them to leave Judaism by their behavior"

Seriously? These chalerias left Judaism long, long time ago.

Gut shabbos.

47

 May 10, 2013 at 01:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
heeb Says:

Correct me if I am wrong.......but aren't even goyim allowed to come to the beis hamikdash to bring korbanos?? Doesn't the pasuk say somethibg like 'ki beisi beis tefilla yikareh lechol ha'amim'?????

Ignore them and they'll go away, they're a bunch of clowns! I wonder if their so passionate about tznius, kashrus, taharat hamishpacha?

48

 May 10, 2013 at 02:00 PM rationalsavta Says:

Reply to #24  
Jewish Thought Says:

What these women are doing, I agree its offensive and disgraceful. They are doing it because they want to push our buttons and make a mockery out of our culture. I do not understand how something like this can happen, but the world has become a very sensitive place and everyone thinks they can express themselves how they want. BUT at the same time this protesting and chilul hashem is NOT who we are as a people and a nation. We are Klal Yisroel, we DO NOT throw rocks at buses or throw chairs at other people, for we are not as every other nation in this world. Take pride and respect who we are. Learn torah, Do mitzvahs, and MOST importantly the only reason why this world was created is AHAVAS YISROEL. If we do all three, this would and will not happen.

I couldn't have said it better! This spectacle was a definite chilul Hashem!
We are so close to "the three weeks." So many misfortunes came about as a result of "sinat chinam". Have we not learned yet? THIS IS NOT THE WAY!!!

49

 May 10, 2013 at 02:21 PM CTJEW Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

Do the woman of off the wall daven every day of the week with tallis and tefellin?
Bet they don't.

You're correct. They don't wear T'fillin on Shabbos or Yuntif.
I have a non-orthodox neice who is 'rabbi' of a conservative congregation in NYS who had worn tallis and t'fillin for almost 30 years since her Bas Mitzvah. Do I agree with this practice or wish it for my daughters? No, but at least my neice is consistent in her beliefs and actions.

50

 May 10, 2013 at 02:39 PM Speaksoftly Says:

69 years ago today, my mother stepped off the train having arrived in Auschwitz. On that train had been members of her family, neighbors and strangers. There were no separations in that cattle car by religious categories - they were all Jews. Most of them,she would never see again.
After 2000 years of Golus and persecution, have we not yet learned that our hearts, minds and behavior must be kodush and exemplary. No one was ever convinced about the error of their ways by spittle or rocks. Teaching with a loving example is all that truly impresses and changes behavior.
To counter inroads posed by groups such as WOW, our children must be taught to respond with true Torah knowledge and exemplary middos. Eretz Yisroel and Am Yisroel are waiting to be conquered by the one force that has not yet reappeared for over two millenia - true Ahavas Yisroel

51

 May 10, 2013 at 03:42 PM ayoyo Says:

I just came back from the holy land.I have never seen so many frum men in the streets of Jerusalem in the middle of the day.Not learning or working
How can the Gedolim tell their people to protest, when we know that in the BEIS HAMIKDOSH area there was place for all types of Jews

52

 May 10, 2013 at 04:06 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #50  
Speaksoftly Says:

69 years ago today, my mother stepped off the train having arrived in Auschwitz. On that train had been members of her family, neighbors and strangers. There were no separations in that cattle car by religious categories - they were all Jews. Most of them,she would never see again.
After 2000 years of Golus and persecution, have we not yet learned that our hearts, minds and behavior must be kodush and exemplary. No one was ever convinced about the error of their ways by spittle or rocks. Teaching with a loving example is all that truly impresses and changes behavior.
To counter inroads posed by groups such as WOW, our children must be taught to respond with true Torah knowledge and exemplary middos. Eretz Yisroel and Am Yisroel are waiting to be conquered by the one force that has not yet reappeared for over two millenia - true Ahavas Yisroel

So Ahavas Yisroel means allowing people to trample over Hashem's holy places? Would allowing a gay pride be fine as well, if so how about Jews for J? Where would you stop? Would you allow someone to trample over you property as a result of Ahavas Yisroel.

Ahvas Yisroel is being waved way too often by the left as an excuse for everything, oכ course until it comes to loving the right. Ahavas Yisroel is exactly what it means, simply loving every Jew, not tolerating the desecration they imply and of course you can hate the bad within them. אהבי ה' שנאו רע, ומשנאיך אתקוטט.

Hashem tell Yechezkiel the prophet that he will bring the destruction of the temple because of the desecration of the holy places, is the WOW not desecrating the wall by waving the flag of deviation and reformism.

53

 May 10, 2013 at 04:16 PM posaikacharon Says:

Reply to #43  
bewhiskered Says:

"Why aren't you complaining about the chillul HASHEM that theses Wallnuts are bringing to Jews? HUH??"

Because Shemp, these women do not know any better, while the rock and water throwers ought to know about חילול שם שמים! HUH??"

you seem to be of the strong opinion that name calling e.g. am haaretz, fool, pathetic, dejected fool, ignoramus, idiot etc. etc. (and your list goes on) wins an argument. listen here mr. bewhiskered: why don't we keep the argument about ideas only? if your position is not strong enough, name calling will not spice it up, only show your true colors. lets keeps the forum civil.

54

 May 10, 2013 at 04:20 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #51  
ayoyo Says:

I just came back from the holy land.I have never seen so many frum men in the streets of Jerusalem in the middle of the day.Not learning or working
How can the Gedolim tell their people to protest, when we know that in the BEIS HAMIKDOSH area there was place for all types of Jews

Yes there was a place for those Jews that desecrated Shabbos and the Torah, they were stoned in front of the Sanhedrin. Jeremiah and Yechezkial are full of criticism and condemnation of the "types", did they not have Ahavas Yisroel?

I have no idea where all you Ahavas Yisroel freaks (not to confuse with the true Ahavas Yisroel) get your facts from "there was a place for types of Jews"???? Read the prophets, it's not very complementing for "All types" of Jews. There is one kind of Jew, the one who follows the Torah as written in the Talmud, explained by Riph/Ran and the Rush and complied by the Ramabam and then the Bet Yosef and the Rema, everyone moving away from that is no different the the Kariets, the hellenites, Zaddoks, Christan's and Espinoz's, we all know there place in history.

YOU and all those woman wearing the Tefilin are not descendents of the reformers, reformers get lost very fast. It's only true Talmudical/Rabbinate Judism that will last forever. It's a shame and it "hurts" that they will be lost, that is Ahvas Yisroel.

55

 May 10, 2013 at 04:21 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #49  
CTJEW Says:

You're correct. They don't wear T'fillin on Shabbos or Yuntif.
I have a non-orthodox neice who is 'rabbi' of a conservative congregation in NYS who had worn tallis and t'fillin for almost 30 years since her Bas Mitzvah. Do I agree with this practice or wish it for my daughters? No, but at least my neice is consistent in her beliefs and actions.

So is my Muslim cousin very consistent in what they believe, what does that say?

56

 May 10, 2013 at 04:23 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #48  
rationalsavta Says:

I couldn't have said it better! This spectacle was a definite chilul Hashem!
We are so close to "the three weeks." So many misfortunes came about as a result of "sinat chinam". Have we not learned yet? THIS IS NOT THE WAY!!!

There is a reason why there are "no" cars in Meah Shearim on shabbat, but there are cars in other areas.

This is the way!

57

 May 10, 2013 at 04:26 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #43  
bewhiskered Says:

"Why aren't you complaining about the chillul HASHEM that theses Wallnuts are bringing to Jews? HUH??"

Because Shemp, these women do not know any better, while the rock and water throwers ought to know about חילול שם שמים! HUH??"

חילול השם, is exactly that, desecrating Hashem's name, so who is desecrating Hashem's name, those that seek to reform Hashem's torah and change the fabric of Judism or those that will disallow it at any cost?

58

 May 10, 2013 at 04:34 PM Anonymous 2 Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

Ignore them and they'll go away, they're a bunch of clowns! I wonder if their so passionate about tznius, kashrus, taharat hamishpacha?

To you and all your ilk here on VIN - Instead of wondering why do you not make an effort to find out the answers to your questions.

59

 May 10, 2013 at 04:39 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #31  
Mergatroid Says:

Hey am horetz, stop making believe your smart by writing in Hebrew you phony. These woman a not Jewish anyway. They are making a Chillul Hashem by dressing up as Jew and even wearing t'fillin Gee I'm swooning from their frumkeit.

So standing up for Kvod Shamayim is a chilul hashem? What is your version of Kiddush Hashem? WOW?

So how is that when the tribe of Levi stood up and "killed" the ones who wanted to use the calf as a replacement for Moshe, were considered heros?

So someone invades your home, trashes it and one son throws the invador out while the other one embraces him, which one is respecting you?

60

 May 10, 2013 at 05:26 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #50  
Speaksoftly Says:

69 years ago today, my mother stepped off the train having arrived in Auschwitz. On that train had been members of her family, neighbors and strangers. There were no separations in that cattle car by religious categories - they were all Jews. Most of them,she would never see again.
After 2000 years of Golus and persecution, have we not yet learned that our hearts, minds and behavior must be kodush and exemplary. No one was ever convinced about the error of their ways by spittle or rocks. Teaching with a loving example is all that truly impresses and changes behavior.
To counter inroads posed by groups such as WOW, our children must be taught to respond with true Torah knowledge and exemplary middos. Eretz Yisroel and Am Yisroel are waiting to be conquered by the one force that has not yet reappeared for over two millenia - true Ahavas Yisroel

"No one was ever convinced about the error of their ways by spittle or rocks. Teaching with a loving example is all that truly impresses and changes behavior."

There is a time for convincing, this is the time for rooting out and defending accomplishments that they are attempting to destroy. They are creating a new precedent and that must be stopped, then we can worry about convincing.

61

 May 10, 2013 at 06:05 PM hashomer Says:

The comments by so many of the anti-WOW crowd are so hateful, so bigoted and backward. Do they so hate their wives & daughters too? These women want to daven, get close to HaShem. They don't spit, insult or throw rocks. They are on a true derech, like so many of our ancestors...

62

 May 11, 2013 at 03:54 PM RealJew Says:

The police should protect JEWS praying on Har Habayit the same way.
BTW Rashis daughters wore tefillin. If WOW came onto the mens side I can see that as a problem, but all these people getting so excited displayes a lack of true connection with Hashem. If they were good and secure with there Avodas Hashem and Yiras Shomayim they would just ignore the WOW and let them do what they want. This obviously threatens their FAKE version of Jewdaisim.

63

 May 11, 2013 at 10:26 PM Mergatroid Says:

Reply to #59  
Facts1 Says:

So standing up for Kvod Shamayim is a chilul hashem? What is your version of Kiddush Hashem? WOW?

So how is that when the tribe of Levi stood up and "killed" the ones who wanted to use the calf as a replacement for Moshe, were considered heros?

So someone invades your home, trashes it and one son throws the invador out while the other one embraces him, which one is respecting you?

What are you hahkin me for. I was saying the same as you.

64

 May 11, 2013 at 10:31 PM Santas Helper Says:

Reply to #61  
hashomer Says:

The comments by so many of the anti-WOW crowd are so hateful, so bigoted and backward. Do they so hate their wives & daughters too? These women want to daven, get close to HaShem. They don't spit, insult or throw rocks. They are on a true derech, like so many of our ancestors...

But they are spiting. They are spiting on the Torah and our sages. they are insulting them by ignoring their psak. Oh and which TRUE (sic) derech are they on?

65

 May 11, 2013 at 11:15 PM Crazykanoiy Says:

Reply to #62  
RealJew Says:

The police should protect JEWS praying on Har Habayit the same way.
BTW Rashis daughters wore tefillin. If WOW came onto the mens side I can see that as a problem, but all these people getting so excited displayes a lack of true connection with Hashem. If they were good and secure with there Avodas Hashem and Yiras Shomayim they would just ignore the WOW and let them do what they want. This obviously threatens their FAKE version of Jewdaisim.

There is no source for the common myth that Rashi's daughters wore Tefilin. If you know a source please list one, until then please do not defend those that trample on our traditions in the holiest of all places.

66

 May 11, 2013 at 11:21 PM Yes! Says:

Reply to #54  
Facts1 Says:

Yes there was a place for those Jews that desecrated Shabbos and the Torah, they were stoned in front of the Sanhedrin. Jeremiah and Yechezkial are full of criticism and condemnation of the "types", did they not have Ahavas Yisroel?

I have no idea where all you Ahavas Yisroel freaks (not to confuse with the true Ahavas Yisroel) get your facts from "there was a place for types of Jews"???? Read the prophets, it's not very complementing for "All types" of Jews. There is one kind of Jew, the one who follows the Torah as written in the Talmud, explained by Riph/Ran and the Rush and complied by the Ramabam and then the Bet Yosef and the Rema, everyone moving away from that is no different the the Kariets, the hellenites, Zaddoks, Christan's and Espinoz's, we all know there place in history.

YOU and all those woman wearing the Tefilin are not descendents of the reformers, reformers get lost very fast. It's only true Talmudical/Rabbinate Judism that will last forever. It's a shame and it "hurts" that they will be lost, that is Ahvas Yisroel.

Exactly!

67

 May 12, 2013 at 01:08 AM shmaltz222 Says:

i think sensitivity on both sides would be appropriate. The chareidim would be better off ignoring them and making soft spoken requests (it would likely peter out anyway if there was no opposition) and the other side should respect the sensitivities of the chareidim (like they would a muslim area) and minimize the offense

another clever option is to send holy chassidish women Tehilim zugers to join in and show them how davening is done!! (ha!!)

68

 May 12, 2013 at 02:01 AM shameshameshame Says:

3 comments:

Wonder how these WOW's pick and choose which mitzvah to be passionate about and which mitzvah to violate. These women are not only reformed jews but some are even on a lower level... reconstructions.. They are so worried about their prayers, but yet do not believe in giving their newborn sons a bris.

Although violence should never be the way to express our views, I absolutely agree with showing support by showing up in vast numbers. We must protect the purity of the kotel as best as we can. BUT, with respect, calmness and prayer. It is very disappointing to see some of the orthodox mens' behavior. Wouldn't it have been more effective for all the protesters to say tehilim in unity. Throwing, spitting.... Who is guiding these young men? To the secular world, they don't act much different than the arab clan rock throwers. Huge chilul hasem.

Last, You can actually see the smirk on some of these wow faces. This is a game to most of them. These women have their own set of rules. They pick and choose which mitzvah to follow and decide on their own which commandments to abolish. We must learn to ignore these groups just as we ignore 'jews for jes_s'

69

 May 12, 2013 at 02:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
ALTERG Says:

& isreal govermen are sticking for this few women of the guyim???? Let them move to india, isreal is the hardess way to observe mitzvos or lerning torah

you are fool and an ignorant one at that. why do you bother?
no better than the women of wow. at least they are literate

70

 May 12, 2013 at 02:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
ALTERG Says:

& isreal govermen are sticking for this few women of the guyim???? Let them move to india, isreal is the hardess way to observe mitzvos or lerning torah

why are these woman so ugly.?
is that why the men are so angry?

71

 May 12, 2013 at 03:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Mergatroid Says:

Hey am horetz, stop making believe your smart by writing in Hebrew you phony. These woman a not Jewish anyway. They are making a Chillul Hashem by dressing up as Jew and even wearing t'fillin Gee I'm swooning from their frumkeit.

WOW to your comment. Care to explain how you arrive at your statement that 'these woman a not jewish anyway'? They are as jewish as you are. They're just not as orthodox as you are. Not every jew is a Torah observant jew. Or do you believe that you lose your status as a Jew if you do not follow the Torah laws?

72

 May 12, 2013 at 04:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #67  
shmaltz222 Says:

i think sensitivity on both sides would be appropriate. The chareidim would be better off ignoring them and making soft spoken requests (it would likely peter out anyway if there was no opposition) and the other side should respect the sensitivities of the chareidim (like they would a muslim area) and minimize the offense

another clever option is to send holy chassidish women Tehilim zugers to join in and show them how davening is done!! (ha!!)

that's exactly what happened most the the people at the kosel were frum women daevning normally.

73

 May 12, 2013 at 04:06 AM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #63  
Mergatroid Says:

What are you hahkin me for. I was saying the same as you.

Sorry, not sure how my comment was attributed to your post.

74

 May 12, 2013 at 07:00 AM Pony Express Says:

Reply to #29  
NotSoFrum Says:

I think this violence at the Kotel between Jews is just awful. The Kotel should be open to all Jews. If these women want to daven on the women's side, why should they not be allowed to daven? Whether we like it or not, these women are Jews and we should stop calling them something other than Jews. They may be doing things and observing practices that don't look Jewish to us, but they are Jews nonetheless (by blood). If they jumped back on the derech (however that might be defined), there would be and should be no question as to their Jewishness. Let's stop the hate. You may not agree with what they are doing, but they can talk to Hashem too. So keep your eyes focused on the men's side of the mechitza and you'll have no problem. Should you be looking at and inspecting women anyway?

Sounds about normal fellow until you realize that:
1. Israel does not bow to foreign influences.

and

2. G-d does not command a woman to wear a mans garment and vice versa.

So lets look to the future and realize that there is a confrontation with Torah here that is not going to go unobserved. That's the Law.

75

 May 12, 2013 at 07:02 AM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #57  
Facts1 Says:

חילול השם, is exactly that, desecrating Hashem's name, so who is desecrating Hashem's name, those that seek to reform Hashem's torah and change the fabric of Judism or those that will disallow it at any cost?

"so who is desecrating Hashem's name, those that seek to reform Hashem's torah and change the fabric of Judism or those that will disallow it at any cost?

These WOW women do not know any better, while the rock and water throwers ought to know about חילול שם שמים!

76

 May 12, 2013 at 08:16 AM jpeditor Says:

These women somehow can't pray unless they are mimicking the prayers & prayer attire of the men they are so disgusted with.

These Left-wing, extremist, anti-orthodox Jewish women support the Muslims in their desire to cut Israel & Jerusalem in half for an oh-so-badly NOT-NEEDED new jihad state.

90% of the so-called "women of the wall" are far Leftists who condemn "settlements" (that are on l& that was Jewish for over a thous& years before the nightmare of islam started), & who have also been & are still trying to help create jihadi-flavored "palestine", even when the leaders of the PA recently declared that not only do they stand by the muslim killers who stab & kill Jewish civilians, but that if they had nuclear weapons they would already have used them on Israel.

The "women of the wall" are nothing but far-Left surrenderists & accommodators of jihadi terror against Israel, & likely against Americans.

I am sure if you polled them a majority of them (like those who support them) would "understand" the Boston bombers.

With "prayers" like theirs, who needs "radical islam"?

77

 May 12, 2013 at 09:01 AM favish Says:

Reply to #37  
Rabbi Avitala Says:

The Torah always tried to Accomodate Women and Men in special situations. Today's women are not homebound with laundry and cooking as they were in the times of the Torah. Therfore the Torah would have surely accomodated us by including us women in all Mitzvohs.
Typical example is Bnos Tzelofchod, Moshe didn't just dimiss them, he went to ask God, and God said, 'Sure will just bend the rules a little bit to accomodate them'. Same is with the Bnei Yosef, and the people who were Tomei for the Korbon Pesach, so they got a Pesach Sheni.

if u u cannt originate dont imitate... this line of thinking started reform, christianity.....g-- said no such thing.....but of course if u dont belive in oral torah like all those (re-)movements no wonder..

78

 May 12, 2013 at 09:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #68  
shameshameshame Says:

3 comments:

Wonder how these WOW's pick and choose which mitzvah to be passionate about and which mitzvah to violate. These women are not only reformed jews but some are even on a lower level... reconstructions.. They are so worried about their prayers, but yet do not believe in giving their newborn sons a bris.

Although violence should never be the way to express our views, I absolutely agree with showing support by showing up in vast numbers. We must protect the purity of the kotel as best as we can. BUT, with respect, calmness and prayer. It is very disappointing to see some of the orthodox mens' behavior. Wouldn't it have been more effective for all the protesters to say tehilim in unity. Throwing, spitting.... Who is guiding these young men? To the secular world, they don't act much different than the arab clan rock throwers. Huge chilul hasem.

Last, You can actually see the smirk on some of these wow faces. This is a game to most of them. These women have their own set of rules. They pick and choose which mitzvah to follow and decide on their own which commandments to abolish. We must learn to ignore these groups just as we ignore 'jews for jes_s'

they dont pick and choose ..the dont believe in hahem ,torah misini, oral torh...these the samech mem in shape of humans lehachis lehasmed ulvatel torh and its adherent...read thier satements ..most reform and down dont believe in the exsistance of diety...

79

 May 12, 2013 at 10:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #76  
jpeditor Says:

These women somehow can't pray unless they are mimicking the prayers & prayer attire of the men they are so disgusted with.

These Left-wing, extremist, anti-orthodox Jewish women support the Muslims in their desire to cut Israel & Jerusalem in half for an oh-so-badly NOT-NEEDED new jihad state.

90% of the so-called "women of the wall" are far Leftists who condemn "settlements" (that are on l& that was Jewish for over a thous& years before the nightmare of islam started), & who have also been & are still trying to help create jihadi-flavored "palestine", even when the leaders of the PA recently declared that not only do they stand by the muslim killers who stab & kill Jewish civilians, but that if they had nuclear weapons they would already have used them on Israel.

The "women of the wall" are nothing but far-Left surrenderists & accommodators of jihadi terror against Israel, & likely against Americans.

I am sure if you polled them a majority of them (like those who support them) would "understand" the Boston bombers.

With "prayers" like theirs, who needs "radical islam"?

Your last comment should have read 'with 'prayers' like theirs, who needs prayers? Their prayers are no different than saying the brachah over bread on Pesach?

Your second to last comment about the Boston bombers.... is utterly nonsensical. Because these women are complete fools, are anti-orthodox and even anti-Torah ways, does not mean they are pro-islam.

80

 May 12, 2013 at 11:25 AM Speaksoftly Says:

Reply to #60  
Facts1 Says:

"No one was ever convinced about the error of their ways by spittle or rocks. Teaching with a loving example is all that truly impresses and changes behavior."

There is a time for convincing, this is the time for rooting out and defending accomplishments that they are attempting to destroy. They are creating a new precedent and that must be stopped, then we can worry about convincing.

While what you say is absolutely true about religious provocations needing to be stopped, the methods we employ are equally important. Violence incites violence - and THAT is the street theater these groups want. If we display our outrage with modesty - THAT is what will convince others. If we use the example of "Kanoim pogim bo" then all of our actions must be absolutely scrupulous. I, for one, cannot withstand such scrutiny.

81

 May 12, 2013 at 12:00 PM Genius Says:

Reply to #75  
bewhiskered Says:

"so who is desecrating Hashem's name, those that seek to reform Hashem's torah and change the fabric of Judism or those that will disallow it at any cost?

These WOW women do not know any better, while the rock and water throwers ought to know about חילול שם שמים!

Where do you get this idea that because they suposedly don't know better it is not a Chilul Hashem? The act is a Chilul Hashem regardless if one has knowledge of the sinfullness of the act or not. Furthermore don't be so naieve, these ladies are well aware of the fact that they are attempting to change the status quo of the past 50 years. They know that their actions are contrary to accepted Halachik norms and they do not care.

Really Mr. Bewhiskered what do you have with the WOW. You seem to be going out of your way to defend them. You are "dan l'kaf zchus" on the ladies yet you are rabidly mad at the protesters. If you are in favor of ladies wearing Talis and Teffilin just come out and admit it.

82

 May 12, 2013 at 12:57 PM Leiby Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

why do good frum girls need to be exposed to such trash they would be better off in school learning, and if the buchrim want to know how to help they should do what the Gemara says "Hashkem .... L'Bais HaMedresh....." learn, Give Tzdaka, and be MeKarev the unlearned thru Ahavas Yisroel. and to the Rabbanim if they would get out off politics and think about "ERETZ YISROEL" it would also help.

the Women of the Wall think its only ment who care it good they saw girls too!

83

 May 12, 2013 at 01:32 PM Facts1 Says:

Reply to #80  
Speaksoftly Says:

While what you say is absolutely true about religious provocations needing to be stopped, the methods we employ are equally important. Violence incites violence - and THAT is the street theater these groups want. If we display our outrage with modesty - THAT is what will convince others. If we use the example of "Kanoim pogim bo" then all of our actions must be absolutely scrupulous. I, for one, cannot withstand such scrutiny.

"Kanoim pogim bo" is a law for itself, it's about "killing" beyond what Jewish law requires. This was a simple civil disobedience demonstration which the left throw up anytime the are unhappy with something, it's the minimum we can do. If people throe enough of a fuss, it will be stopped - like driving on Shabbos in Meah Shearim.

84

 May 12, 2013 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Facts1 Says:

So Ahavas Yisroel means allowing people to trample over Hashem's holy places? Would allowing a gay pride be fine as well, if so how about Jews for J? Where would you stop? Would you allow someone to trample over you property as a result of Ahavas Yisroel.

Ahvas Yisroel is being waved way too often by the left as an excuse for everything, oכ course until it comes to loving the right. Ahavas Yisroel is exactly what it means, simply loving every Jew, not tolerating the desecration they imply and of course you can hate the bad within them. אהבי ה' שנאו רע, ומשנאיך אתקוטט.

Hashem tell Yechezkiel the prophet that he will bring the destruction of the temple because of the desecration of the holy places, is the WOW not desecrating the wall by waving the flag of deviation and reformism.

You are correct in not allowing a chillul H-shem in the desecration of mekomos hakedoshim, but we must be equally careful that there is no chillul H-shem in our protests thereof. Ahavas Yisroel instructs in decrying the actions but not the people we are trying to instruct. Look at the pictures in the story above - did these women accomplish their mission in making chareidim into caricatures - absolutely! Does the world sense our outrage or do they just see outrageous behavior?
When beef sausages our sold in the Vatican during Lent, and pork is sold in Mecca and Medina, then perhaps the world can point to to the behavior of the zealots in Jerusalem as an outlier.
But without such a balanced perspective we must examine our every action and weigh the possible outcome of public chillul H-shem. A mass turnout , turning our backs to them, would have been the appropriate answer along with a kiruv outreach team to invite them in for a shmooz into Ohr Sameach.
There must be a reason that Rav Shteinman Shlita asked the girls to protest - their nature and chinuch embodies tznius. Hatzna leches is the ultimate lesson we can teach - that does not mean acquiescence.

85

 May 12, 2013 at 02:04 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #81  
Genius Says:

Where do you get this idea that because they suposedly don't know better it is not a Chilul Hashem? The act is a Chilul Hashem regardless if one has knowledge of the sinfullness of the act or not. Furthermore don't be so naieve, these ladies are well aware of the fact that they are attempting to change the status quo of the past 50 years. They know that their actions are contrary to accepted Halachik norms and they do not care.

Really Mr. Bewhiskered what do you have with the WOW. You seem to be going out of your way to defend them. You are "dan l'kaf zchus" on the ladies yet you are rabidly mad at the protesters. If you are in favor of ladies wearing Talis and Teffilin just come out and admit it.

"The act is a Chilul Hashem regardless if one has knowledge of the sinfullness of the act or not."

So, you are saying that when it comes to עבירות, there is no difference between בשוגג and במזיד- correct? There are greater authorities than you who would disagree on this! These women have absolutely no knowledge that what they are doing opposes כל התורה כולה.

"Really Mr. Bewhiskered what do you have with the WOW."

Well, Mr. Genius, it is not that ח"ו I side with such lamentable women, but rather, that I am against those who speak solely out of anger and emotion, and not from the perspective of true לימוד התורה as you do. For the record though, I am completely against women wearing תפילין in these times, even though the גמרא in עירובין צ"ו ע"א states:

דתניא מיכל בת כושי היתה מנחת תפילין ולא מיחו בה חכמים

רש"י there learns that she was מיכל בת שאול.

And, the מחבר (a ראשון) of the ספר החינוך (in מצוה תכ"א) learns that if women take it upon themselves, they may wear תפילין. But, at the risk of redundancy, I completely support the הנהגה that בזמנינו women should NOT wear תפילין or טליתים. Is there anything else you would like me to clarify?

86

 May 12, 2013 at 02:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #84  
Anonymous Says:

You are correct in not allowing a chillul H-shem in the desecration of mekomos hakedoshim, but we must be equally careful that there is no chillul H-shem in our protests thereof. Ahavas Yisroel instructs in decrying the actions but not the people we are trying to instruct. Look at the pictures in the story above - did these women accomplish their mission in making chareidim into caricatures - absolutely! Does the world sense our outrage or do they just see outrageous behavior?
When beef sausages our sold in the Vatican during Lent, and pork is sold in Mecca and Medina, then perhaps the world can point to to the behavior of the zealots in Jerusalem as an outlier.
But without such a balanced perspective we must examine our every action and weigh the possible outcome of public chillul H-shem. A mass turnout , turning our backs to them, would have been the appropriate answer along with a kiruv outreach team to invite them in for a shmooz into Ohr Sameach.
There must be a reason that Rav Shteinman Shlita asked the girls to protest - their nature and chinuch embodies tznius. Hatzna leches is the ultimate lesson we can teach - that does not mean acquiescence.

Did you say... 'invite them in for a shmooz'? There's a reason why we are taught at a young age to NEVER debate Jews 4 J or other anti-torah jews. In contrast to what some may think, alot of these women and families of WOW were raised in an orthodox environment. They KNOW the halochos. they've read the Kitzur Shulchan Orech.. but are too lazy to carry them out. They are NOT looking to return. They like the status of being 'jewish' but they don't like some of the torah laws.

Never put them in the same room as outreach or Ohr Sameach participants. Keep them far apart.

87

 May 12, 2013 at 03:55 PM mythbuster Says:

Reply to #85  
bewhiskered Says:

"The act is a Chilul Hashem regardless if one has knowledge of the sinfullness of the act or not."

So, you are saying that when it comes to עבירות, there is no difference between בשוגג and במזיד- correct? There are greater authorities than you who would disagree on this! These women have absolutely no knowledge that what they are doing opposes כל התורה כולה.

"Really Mr. Bewhiskered what do you have with the WOW."

Well, Mr. Genius, it is not that ח"ו I side with such lamentable women, but rather, that I am against those who speak solely out of anger and emotion, and not from the perspective of true לימוד התורה as you do. For the record though, I am completely against women wearing תפילין in these times, even though the גמרא in עירובין צ"ו ע"א states:

דתניא מיכל בת כושי היתה מנחת תפילין ולא מיחו בה חכמים

רש"י there learns that she was מיכל בת שאול.

And, the מחבר (a ראשון) of the ספר החינוך (in מצוה תכ"א) learns that if women take it upon themselves, they may wear תפילין. But, at the risk of redundancy, I completely support the הנהגה that בזמנינו women should NOT wear תפילין or טליתים. Is there anything else you would like me to clarify?

Do you really mean to say that they don't know that they are bucking the trend?! Going against the torah and mesorah? The whole movement is about being provocative. Isn't that obvious?

88

 May 12, 2013 at 06:52 PM Mergatroid Says:

Reply to #71  
Anonymous Says:

WOW to your comment. Care to explain how you arrive at your statement that 'these woman a not jewish anyway'? They are as jewish as you are. They're just not as orthodox as you are. Not every jew is a Torah observant jew. Or do you believe that you lose your status as a Jew if you do not follow the Torah laws?

AS was explained here already, reformers and reconstructionists and some conservatives believe that a person is a jew even if only his/her father is a Jew. Now these woman can be 3rd 4th or 5th generation reformers. Hence the 50-50 chance of them really being Jewish thru their mothers must be what, 5%? So the statement is most likely true, unfortunately.

89

 May 12, 2013 at 09:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #88  
Mergatroid Says:

AS was explained here already, reformers and reconstructionists and some conservatives believe that a person is a jew even if only his/her father is a Jew. Now these woman can be 3rd 4th or 5th generation reformers. Hence the 50-50 chance of them really being Jewish thru their mothers must be what, 5%? So the statement is most likely true, unfortunately.

Your stats are way off. Only some believe that you're jewish based on EITHER matriarchal or patriarchal descent. Even their 'rabbi's will put them through (their version of) a conversion when unsure. However, we are not in a position to guess which of these wow's are jewish or not.

90

 May 12, 2013 at 09:44 PM Mergatroid Says:

Reply to #89  
Anonymous Says:

Your stats are way off. Only some believe that you're jewish based on EITHER matriarchal or patriarchal descent. Even their 'rabbi's will put them through (their version of) a conversion when unsure. However, we are not in a position to guess which of these wow's are jewish or not.

Even their 'rabbi's will put them through (their version of) a conversion when unsure.
You therefore are cementing my reasoning. "Their rabbis" ? Who are "their rabbis"? 1) they are not rabbis. (80% are either atheists or agnostic) rabbis. LOL I don't even want to capitalize their titles. . 2) They have the same problems. Half their mothers are not Jewish, hence half (at least) their "Rabbis" are not even Jewish. How can he convert anybody???????? This is so silly and worse it is ruining the Jewish people. The reform Judaism house is like a deck of cards. Nebech

91

 May 16, 2013 at 10:47 PM Atlantan Says:

Do you see the red head in the picture above, with the caption, "A Jewish orthodox women (sic) follows a prayer organized by the "Women of the Wall" organization"? Well, my daughter is friends with that teenage seminary girl. The girl is decidedly *not* "following a prayer" organized by that organization.

92

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