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Los Angeles, CA - Charedi Rabbi: The Jewish Community Should Deal With Molesters Just Like Murderers

Published on: May 31, 2013 01:48 PM
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Rabbi Avrohom StulbergerRabbi Avrohom Stulberger

Los Angeles, CA - The recent guilty plea of an Orthodox Rabbi to molestation charges in New Jersey as well as the District Attorney’s expressed hope that this case will encourage other parents of abused children from the Orthodox community to come forward to report crimes, beg the questions that have bothered me for years : Why is there such a reticence on the part of Orthodox Jews to put these perpetrators behind bars?

Why are threats of retribution aimed at the victims and their families if they report these crimes, when logic dictates that our wrath should be aimed at the abuser and not at the abused?

I recently read an article in the L.A. Times about Phil Jackson’s new book, and what he says in it about Kobe Bryant. Jackson writes that he harbored a deep underlying hatred for Bryant the year that he was accused of sexual assault, because Jackson’s daughter was a victim of a similar assault years earlier. That episode, therefore, hit Jackson close to home. It struck me clearly that the mere fact that Jackson had a daughter wasn’t enough to affect him deeply. The basic feelings of empathy and compassion that dictate revulsion at the mere mention of such a heinous crime were apparently beyond even beyond Phil Jackson’s capabilities.

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I am not here to criticize Jackson, but could it be that we the chosen people, are mired in the same place? Do we hear the words “abuse” and “molestation”, shake our heads and move on?

Do we, Heaven forbid have to feel the pain personally before we react the way a parent of a victim would? Let me make a suggestion: let us rename these people “murderers” instead of molesters. From a religious point of view , that is exactly what they are. Killing one’s souls, in Jewish law, is at least as destructive as killing one physically.

In addition when a Rabbi or other religious authority figure invades a child’s world with abuse, he shatters the positive association with Torah that so significantly contributes to the child’s spirituality. When we compound the tragedy with intimation and cover-up, we bear the guilt of both pushing the knife into the hearts of the victims, and becoming accessories to the future murders of innocent neshamos.

I am not being overly dramatic. Listen to the mental health professionals and hear how much of a struggle it is to rebuild theses victims’ self- esteem and trust. Can a Jew come to love Torah when its representative has so ravaged his inner peace and self-worth?

The Torah commands us not to stand by idly as our fellow Jew’s blood is being spilled. This Halacha clearly encompasses more than actual blood: one’s mental and spiritual health are within its purview as well. Factoring in the intimacy issues that abuse raises later in life, the damaged caused is incalculable. Arguably, there is no greater single threat to a chid’s emerging Ruchnius than suffering the pain of sexual abuse.

So let’s stop focusing on the sterling reputations of perpetrators and their family members, who inevitably rally to the molesters side. Let’s stop nonsensically pretending that we are turning innocent people over to the KGB or the Gestapo. Let’s stop listening to the empty promises that it won’t happen again. Instead, let’s start looking into these children’s hearts and let us cry at the agony that we see.

Let’s look honestly at the fact that today as an Orthodox community we cannot manage our own house, and cannot promise that there will be no more victims. We don’t have the power. We don’t have the authority. And sadly, I fear that we don’t have the empathy.

Rabbi Avrohom Stulberger is a prominent Charedi Rabbi and noted speaker. Rabbi Stulberger has been the Dean of Valley Torah High School for 27 years. Serves as the President of the Yeshiva Principals council of LA and has served on the Halachic Advisory Board of Aleinu Jewish Family Services for over a decade.

This article was Sent to VIN by reader Rabbi Eliyahu Fink. The article first appeared  in this weeks edition of Jewish Home LA, a California based magazine for the Charedi community, and is republished by VIN with permission.


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Read Comments (94)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 31, 2013 at 02:16 PM Secular Says:

Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Stulberger.

Though I'm not sure why the headline refers to him as Chareidi, when he's an Orthodox Rabbi.

2

 May 31, 2013 at 02:15 PM CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

3

 May 31, 2013 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

4

 May 31, 2013 at 02:26 PM Elliot Pasik Says:

Excellent article. At the end, "We cannot manage our own house...We don't have the power. We don't have the authority". And in the beginning, "The recent guilty plea of an Orthodox Rabbi to molestation charges in New Jersey".

The message is that we need to prosecute.

The rabbis asks, why do some of us have reticence to put perpetrators behind bars? There is the seemingly simple pasuk: "Tsedek tsedek tirdof..." Justice justice pursue. Why justice twice? The traditional answer is, pursue justice in a just manner. Another interpretation is that tsedek is repeated because Hashem knows how uncomfortable it is to pursue justice against one's neighbor, chaver, rebbe. So the word tsedek is emphasized. We must overcome our social reticence, and force ourselves to do justice.

The rabbi's comparison of molestation to murder is not mere hyperbole. Medical studies, based on MRI and other diagnostic tests, establish that sex abuse does actual physical damage to the brain. It can inflict damage to the cells and DNA. Depression and post traumatic stress disorder can be inherited. Therapy is needed, and helps. There are shortened life spans. We must pursue justice.

5

 May 31, 2013 at 02:24 PM Neptune Nathan Says:

Finally some words of SANITY by a Charedi Rabbi. Unlike a certain rabbi who not only defended a three time convicted registered sex offender, but also went with him to court and tried UNSUCCESSFULLY to have his 10 year probation ended early!

This is the step in the right direction. Kol Havavod to Rav Avrohom Stulberger!

6

 May 31, 2013 at 02:32 PM inNY Says:

I'm betting that Rabbi Stulberger is going to retract this article, he is going to have a lot of heat.. interesting to note, that his article is on Page 20 and is right next to an article by Rabbi Avi Sharfran from Agudath who most likely disagrees with Rabbi Stulberger.

7

 May 31, 2013 at 02:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

You sure aren't!

8

 May 31, 2013 at 02:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

Right, and you want to have a witness to a crime that never has witnesses. HYPOCRITE!

9

 May 31, 2013 at 02:32 PM BP MOM Says:

Finally a Rabbi speaking the truth as uncomfortable as it is.

10

 May 31, 2013 at 02:35 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #2  
CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

Just going on the example the Rabbi in the article mentioned of the case in Lakewood where the person admitted to doing the evil deed. In this case many very choshuve rabbonim defended the molestor and ran the victims family out of town. So in this case what would you say?

11

 May 31, 2013 at 02:35 PM Seichel Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

Really? Please point me to the issue with reading the newspaper. It is well known that Rav Moshe Feinstein would read the newspaper cover to cover every day. Rabbi Stulberger is a Rabbi and a good one at that, so no need to disparage by putting his title in quotes.

13

 May 31, 2013 at 02:38 PM ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

14

 May 31, 2013 at 02:41 PM FBF37 Says:

One question is what is the torah law?? How can these Rabbonim continue to defend the undefendible? What do they know that we don't? Are the Rabbonim saying that it's muttar to molest? What about tznius? Many years ago I read about a case where a Rosh Yeshiva paskended that since the molestor did not "penetrate" then it's OK?? Is this how they are paskening all of these cases? If yes then we need to rid of all the Rabbonim who think this way. We need to stand up as a klal. One person, 100 people cannot do it. All right minded thinking people need to stand up to the bullies at Agudah, YTV, YCB etc..

15

 May 31, 2013 at 02:44 PM DavidCohen Says:

Perfectly stated. This article needs to be broadly republished and redistributed.

Thank you, Rabbi Avrohom Stulberger.

16

 May 31, 2013 at 02:53 PM imhumble Says:

the rabbi is right! these people are murderers not molesters they violate children, destroy their trust in Hashem and in people, lose their religious belief and sense of worth. so what are we doing to help the victims?? lots of kids out there who have no where to turn.... they are disenfranchised and they need camps, yeshivas and friends. any ideas for an 18 year old i know personally?

17

 May 31, 2013 at 02:54 PM Anonymous Says:

It seems that this is the only and biggest issue facing the Jewish communities nowadays. There are NO issues with lack of good paying jobs on the books, education or affordable housing especially for our younger generation.

Those so called rabbis should know that thousands of our younger generation is suffering due to a lack of good paying jobs, lack higher education not even graduating high school or a lack of affordable housing in our communities. Why are there trying to shove more important issues under the hood by being busy with an issue affecting only a few rotten apples.

18

 May 31, 2013 at 02:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

You are on the losing side of every issue Alta. TImes THEY ARE A CHANGING!

19

 May 31, 2013 at 02:57 PM rebbe123 Says:

Reply to #2  
CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

well said by a murderer you also need 2 kosher witnesses,
btw since when does a raboi take examples from a newspaper?

20

 May 31, 2013 at 03:04 PM rebbe123 Says:

Reply to #10  
FBF37 Says:

Just going on the example the Rabbi in the article mentioned of the case in Lakewood where the person admitted to doing the evil deed. In this case many very choshuve rabbonim defended the molestor and ran the victims family out of town. So in this case what would you say?

there's a famous case of a jesse friedman who was convicted, and pleaded guilty to a sex crime and served many years in prison for false accusations! the judicial system is CORRUPTED! without two witnesses It's those who caused the innocent to be jailed they are the murderers! the la times is NOT our shulcan oruch

21

 May 31, 2013 at 03:04 PM charliehall Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

In other words, you want NO molester to ever face consequences, because there is NO beit din anywhere that even knows how to investigate such cases.

You, sir, are the problem.

22

 May 31, 2013 at 03:09 PM Rabbi_CS Says:

Reply to #2  
CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

So, Mr. Criticism, is that your Psak?

Really?

If there is a person in your son's Yeshiva going room to room shooting people, you would call a Rov and make a Din Torah instead of calling 911? Because first you have to have a Psak that he is guilty?

Are you for real?

23

 May 31, 2013 at 03:13 PM borninthebronx Says:

Kol Hakovod. Finally some sanity.

24

 May 31, 2013 at 03:14 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #2  
CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

Hey dumkopf...that's what a judicial system is for...in a modern society we do not rely on vigilantes or community do-gooders...or Rabbis...to "make sure that the accused is 100% guility" Not even for traffic tickets. The ignorance of basic law and civics in our community is just so appalling

25

 May 31, 2013 at 03:18 PM FBF37 Says:

One more point. Not only does it hurt the victims it hurts the regular orthodox jew. I would consider myself an "adult at risk" now since there is no leadership in this matter.

What I mean is I can under understand a molester who has sick cravings etc... He needs lots of help and needs to stay away from children (or just keep him in jail forever etc...) My main issue is the cover-up. Everyone says the cover-up is worse then the crime itself. How can such smart people continually defend these people? Why defend them?? In our community it's even worse since you are threatened and thrown out of the community if you are the victim etc... It makes no sense!!

26

 May 31, 2013 at 03:23 PM common-sense Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

I get it now. If he reads the LA Times he is not a Rabbi. But if he covers up for a child molester, he is a Tzadik.

27

 May 31, 2013 at 03:32 PM Mendel Says:

Reply to #1  
Secular Says:

Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Stulberger.

Though I'm not sure why the headline refers to him as Chareidi, when he's an Orthodox Rabbi.

Chareidi just means that he is "chared lid'var Hashem". Any truly frum person can claim the title. The yeshivashe chassidishe have no monopoly on being careful to fulfill Hashem's mitzvot.

28

 May 31, 2013 at 03:33 PM Torah Yid Says:

The Torah has an answer to all this חמישים שקלים look it up not over 100 years jail
it's seems an old problem

29

 May 31, 2013 at 03:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

"I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book."

What if reading about what the Rabbi says saves just one of our kinder? I hope you are not a parent!

30

 May 31, 2013 at 03:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

"cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)"

Still blaming the victims! While so many of our predators are free because people like you want a witness to rape! There is rarely a 3rd party when a Rabbi molests a little girl. Take a hike

31

 May 31, 2013 at 03:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

"NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)"

Get the memo. Weberman was convicted by a jury. Move on----->
He's not innocent.

32

 May 31, 2013 at 03:45 PM Rabbi_CS Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

"like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera"

Right, there was nothing.

Except for...

Believable victim testimony, Seichel and common sense......

And a predator who admitted forcing her to go on 14 hour trips with her and forcing her to hang out with him for 12 hours a week, locked in an office with a bedroom.

33

 May 31, 2013 at 04:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Stulberger has a well-written, cohesive article. The catch 22 is that since, instead of Torah values and true justice, the content is based on personal interpretations of and commentary on a newspaper article, it doesn't matter that Stulberger holds a Rabbinic position. His words carry no more weight and obligation than if he were to offer his opinion while holding the position of, let's say, a rock climber, high school student, or waiter.

34

 May 31, 2013 at 04:08 PM Rabbi_CS Says:

Reply to #28  
Torah Yid Says:

The Torah has an answer to all this חמישים שקלים look it up not over 100 years jail
it's seems an old problem

For a Torah Yid you are quite an Am Haaretz...

Since the victim of Weberman was a Niddah - as all teenage girls are....

And Koko's victim was a boy....

The punishment for either one is Missa - one biday Shamayim and one Bidai Adam. Either way, the Sanhedrin would put them in Kipa - or jail - for the rest of their lives, until they got the appropriate Misa.

35

 May 31, 2013 at 04:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
rebbe123 Says:

there's a famous case of a jesse friedman who was convicted, and pleaded guilty to a sex crime and served many years in prison for false accusations! the judicial system is CORRUPTED! without two witnesses It's those who caused the innocent to be jailed they are the murderers! the la times is NOT our shulcan oruch

Please read Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat, 388:12 and what it says to do about someone who is a menace to society.

36

 May 31, 2013 at 04:21 PM Secular Says:

Reply to #32  
Rabbi_CS Says:

"like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera"

Right, there was nothing.

Except for...

Believable victim testimony, Seichel and common sense......

And a predator who admitted forcing her to go on 14 hour trips with her and forcing her to hang out with him for 12 hours a week, locked in an office with a bedroom.

Weberman by his own actions was a Chashud al Ha'arayos, and Passul LeEdus. He engaged in prolonged Yichud with a woman who was an Erva to him. Not to mention, he had no training or credentials to provide 'therapy'. And all for what?, because the girl was allegedly hanging around boys?

37

 May 31, 2013 at 04:26 PM seicheldig Says:

What a rabbi. ? A rabbi is supposedly one who follows the toireh & haloche none of what he writes sounds close to haloche. He definetly reads more news papers or treife books that are full of zime. Then toireh or shilchon urich. So I guess that's where he's head is. Also a rabbi. What a chillul hshem

38

 May 31, 2013 at 04:26 PM Anonymous Says:

child molesters in the Jewish community need help too, they're victims of a rigged isolated arrogant culture which judges everyone so harshly that it forces anyone in frum community thats growing up with urges that they don't understand to hide their feelings because they are scared that they will be judged instead of being helped.

39

 May 31, 2013 at 04:31 PM qazxc Says:

Why do people still brother responding to AlterK?

40

 May 31, 2013 at 04:37 PM bewhiskered Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

"from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she) ”

You know, all your lamely attempted defenses for child molesters make you sound very much like someone who is worried about such charges coming to light concerning yourself. Either that, or you are a pedophobe (child hater) of immense proportion.

41

 May 31, 2013 at 05:03 PM bubii Says:

He is absolutly right kol hakavod to the rabbi,he is a true human being.

42

 May 31, 2013 at 05:05 PM OYVY2 Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

I will make myself feel better, thinking you are being sarcastic. Kol Hakovod to you Rabbi Stulberger. You are right on track, why can't more leaders step up and say things like this? We are more aware and more strident recently, but need to do more and keep up our anger and disgust at molesters .

43

 May 31, 2013 at 05:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Rabbi_CS Says:

"like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera"

Right, there was nothing.

Except for...

Believable victim testimony, Seichel and common sense......

And a predator who admitted forcing her to go on 14 hour trips with her and forcing her to hang out with him for 12 hours a week, locked in an office with a bedroom.

he did not force her to go on 14 hour trips - he was going to the country and she needed a ride to Monsey - he dropped her off and made sure to take her father's car to avoid any yichud shaalah - find out ur facts!

44

 May 31, 2013 at 05:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Rabbi_CS Says:

"like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera"

Right, there was nothing.

Except for...

Believable victim testimony, Seichel and common sense......

And a predator who admitted forcing her to go on 14 hour trips with her and forcing her to hang out with him for 12 hours a week, locked in an office with a bedroom.

there is no holding back against actual molesters, only we are worried because we have seen innocent people framed time and time again

45

 May 31, 2013 at 05:31 PM rebbe123 Says:

Reply to #35  
Anonymous Says:

Please read Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat, 388:12 and what it says to do about someone who is a menace to society.

I didn't read it, I learned it! now you read my comment again or maybe you need someone to learn it with you

46

 May 31, 2013 at 05:50 PM commonsense99 Says:

Where are all these comments on yesterday news piece about the friedmans,
The lynch mob mindset is sickening, I think the salem witch trials are more fair then the trial a molester gets

47

 May 31, 2013 at 06:24 PM c Says:

Seicheldig , Alter G and Rebbe 123 are all complete fools who shuld be ignored. They also shouldn't be on the treif internet to begin with! I'm fairly certain that atleast 2 of them are either molesters themselves or frequent establishments of ill repute.

48

 May 31, 2013 at 06:31 PM PrettyBoyFloyd Says:

Kol Hakavod. Finally, a Rabbi that's not afraid to speak the the truth. The fire he's is gonna come under will be fierce, but chazak v'emutz.

49

 May 31, 2013 at 06:36 PM Zaidy876 Says:

I agree with #38. many people, including Rabbis just want to enjoy sitting on their pedestals and look down with disdain and arrogance on people who are sick and need help. Anyone can sit there and point like the Nazis did ym'sm. Real leaders are people who look for solutions not for glitzy headlines to make themselves appear more honorable and esteemed in the eyes of other people...

50

 May 31, 2013 at 06:40 PM bubii Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

there is no holding back against actual molesters, only we are worried because we have seen innocent people framed time and time again

Could you please tell me the names of those many innocent man framed,i do know that there are many molesters who were found guilty but not many found innocent.

51

 May 31, 2013 at 07:19 PM Robert Says:

Reply to #39  
qazxc Says:

Why do people still brother responding to AlterK?

I believe alterg has deep emotional problems and gets a thrill out of stating inflammatory wise guy type of rubbish.. he is baiting us and gets a thrill we someone bashes him.. I think it is a type of narcissim

52

 May 31, 2013 at 09:19 PM esther Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

child molesters in the Jewish community need help too, they're victims of a rigged isolated arrogant culture which judges everyone so harshly that it forces anyone in frum community thats growing up with urges that they don't understand to hide their feelings because they are scared that they will be judged instead of being helped.

you get the prize for the sickest,most twisted post of the year.

53

 May 31, 2013 at 09:23 PM esther Says:

Reply to #49  
Zaidy876 Says:

I agree with #38. many people, including Rabbis just want to enjoy sitting on their pedestals and look down with disdain and arrogance on people who are sick and need help. Anyone can sit there and point like the Nazis did ym'sm. Real leaders are people who look for solutions not for glitzy headlines to make themselves appear more honorable and esteemed in the eyes of other people...

so if i "sit " and look at molesters with "disdain",i'm like a nazis. hmm,thanks for the clarification.

54

 May 31, 2013 at 09:57 PM Robin Says:

Reply to #32  
Rabbi_CS Says:

"like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera"

Right, there was nothing.

Except for...

Believable victim testimony, Seichel and common sense......

And a predator who admitted forcing her to go on 14 hour trips with her and forcing her to hang out with him for 12 hours a week, locked in an office with a bedroom.

Also, and, most importantly, the victim did not initially file charges-- it was her therapist, a mandated reporter, who came forward with the allegations, adding huge credibility to the victim's testimony!!! Wake up, #13, Weberman is a monster! He should count his blessings that he gets to do teshuva in this world!

55

 Jun 01, 2013 at 04:33 AM Normal Says:

Call the police immediately and let them sort it out.

56

 Jun 01, 2013 at 11:30 PM CRITICISM Says:

Reply to #24  
yonasonw Says:

Hey dumkopf...that's what a judicial system is for...in a modern society we do not rely on vigilantes or community do-gooders...or Rabbis...to "make sure that the accused is 100% guility" Not even for traffic tickets. The ignorance of basic law and civics in our community is just so appalling

Just saying that we must not jump to conclusions on every case

57

 Jun 02, 2013 at 12:10 AM Boruch N. Hoffinger Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

Dear 'Anonymous,'
Using the term 'anonymous' is one way to harm a web site. People think your comments are not so important to your or others. You are also ambushing the rabbi.
Also, both you and the rabbi have a mitzvah to learn Torah as much as possible. Your problem with the rabbi reading secular things is ignorance on your part. If something is meaningful it is NOT 'bittle Torah.'

58

 Jun 02, 2013 at 01:11 AM rogergreen Says:

What's the big deal?What chiddushim is "Rabbi Foolberber" bringing to the table?

59

 Jun 02, 2013 at 01:19 AM rebbeleiben Says:

I see from alot of peoples comments that they are afraid to deal with the emes. If this happened to any one of you CV"SH you would sing a different tune.

60

 Jun 02, 2013 at 08:36 AM PappaBarAbba Says:

Sorry to say to some of you, but Rav Stulberger is not just an ordinary Rabbi. He is a Rosh Yeshiva of extraordinary depth and knowledge. He knows both shas and lomdus, and leading Roshei Yeshiva in Eretz Yisroel have placed him in the highest of esteem.

61

 Jun 02, 2013 at 08:30 AM cool masmid Says:

Reply to #11  
Seichel Says:

Really? Please point me to the issue with reading the newspaper. It is well known that Rav Moshe Feinstein would read the newspaper cover to cover every day. Rabbi Stulberger is a Rabbi and a good one at that, so no need to disparage by putting his title in quotes.

Not sure where you get that baloney from. Hard to believe that R' Moishe Zt"l who didn't waste a second would find the time to read the newspapers cover to cover. And assuming he did he was not reading the sports section. So before you make such such stupid comments on our previous generation gedolim do your homework first.

62

 Jun 02, 2013 at 07:57 AM TruthSpeaks101 Says:

Reply to #58  
rogergreen Says:

What's the big deal?What chiddushim is "Rabbi Foolberber" bringing to the table?

Ur either an Ignoramus or a Fool to Belittle an issue as large as this in the Frum Community.

63

 Jun 02, 2013 at 07:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

"I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book."

What if reading about what the Rabbi says saves just one of our kinder? I hope you are not a parent!

one??!!! This article can save thousands of jewish victims. Not only physically, but when they are assaulted sexually by a religious jew, it completely turns us away spiritually from the Derech Torah.

It is a confusing message for any teenager, talking from unfortunate experience and just leads us off the path.

64

 Jun 02, 2013 at 06:34 AM formercrownheightser Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

'Rabbi' means teacher. One should be informed to be one.

65

 Jun 02, 2013 at 08:37 AM Laboyzz Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

Anyone one who knows Rabbi Stulberger knows he is a respected mechanech, who knows and lives by the Torah. He is a black hat, "charedi" Rabbi, a ben torah, and a mentsch. I am not shocked that he is familiar with things written in the LA Times, or Phil Jackson's book; as a high school principal, knowledge in these areas is an asset.

And as someone who is close to someone who was molested in high school, I can tell you that it compounds any issues the person already has, and it can take them many many years( in this person's case, 8-10 years) and lots of therapy to deal with the issues enough to function like a semi-normal person. Kol Hakavod Rabbi Stulberger...

66

 Jun 02, 2013 at 09:16 AM jack-l Says:

Reply to #47  
c Says:

Seicheldig , Alter G and Rebbe 123 are all complete fools who shuld be ignored. They also shouldn't be on the treif internet to begin with! I'm fairly certain that atleast 2 of them are either molesters themselves or frequent establishments of ill repute.

The wheels of change are now turning slowly in the frun world.
In the chareidi world it is just beginning to turn.
We all have problems with the cavedwellers u mentioned.
They are ignorant ,bigoted, racist and antisemitic.
Some of the drivel they spew makes me sick to my stomach.
The probability that there are many many more like them in the chareidi world.is a cause for concern.
That and the fact they breed...........more ignorance and hatred.

67

 Jun 02, 2013 at 09:36 AM Professor Says:

Reply to #61  
cool masmid Says:

Not sure where you get that baloney from. Hard to believe that R' Moishe Zt"l who didn't waste a second would find the time to read the newspapers cover to cover. And assuming he did he was not reading the sports section. So before you make such such stupid comments on our previous generation gedolim do your homework first.

It is hard to believe. Because history hides the truth.
We like to make our talmidei chachomim as if all they did was learn.
I personally know the person who brought him the paper daily.

68

 Jun 02, 2013 at 10:03 AM DOVE1 Says:

How do you know the Lakewood story is true ? maybe he is innocent .
Its or you admit even if its false and you get 10 years or plead not guilty and judge gives you 103 years

69

 Jun 02, 2013 at 07:42 AM TruthSpeaks101 Says:

I was molested by an Orthodox Rabbi in our community throughout my teenage years.

I am not the only Victim, I personally know of more, and there are many out there, still being assaulted, we need to SAVE them!
These are our friends, classmates, families, campers, u name it-

Coming from me, it's like having been murdered yet still alive to witness.

70

 Jun 02, 2013 at 07:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

this is advice that any idiot like you can heed, however, it takes a character of Leadership and Strength to publish it, and yet he just so happens to be a rabbi.

71

 Jun 02, 2013 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
FBF37 Says:

Just going on the example the Rabbi in the article mentioned of the case in Lakewood where the person admitted to doing the evil deed. In this case many very choshuve rabbonim defended the molestor and ran the victims family out of town. So in this case what would you say?

In todays court system a guilty plea does not necessarily mean guilty. All it means is have he not pleaded guilty he risks sitting for life so he chooses the guilty plea. In today's hostile court environment unless you are a popular guy like OJ simpson and especially in molestation cases you can't win in court even if you are not guilty.

72

 Jun 02, 2013 at 12:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

"NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)"

Get the memo. Weberman was convicted by a jury. Move on----->
He's not innocent.

Big deal a jury is made up of 12 people too stupid enough to get out of jury duty. It means nothing.

73

 Jun 02, 2013 at 12:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Rabbi_CS Says:

"like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera"

Right, there was nothing.

Except for...

Believable victim testimony, Seichel and common sense......

And a predator who admitted forcing her to go on 14 hour trips with her and forcing her to hang out with him for 12 hours a week, locked in an office with a bedroom.

He never forced her she went on her own free will. he never locked his doors. Its nonsense made up by the accusers.

74

 Jun 02, 2013 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Secular Says:

Weberman by his own actions was a Chashud al Ha'arayos, and Passul LeEdus. He engaged in prolonged Yichud with a woman who was an Erva to him. Not to mention, he had no training or credentials to provide 'therapy'. And all for what?, because the girl was allegedly hanging around boys?

He engaged in prolonged Yichud . Who says? R moshe is mater going in a car witha girl. May not be the spirt of the law but he was never aver.
Re no training, Thats pure nonsense which rav has training our whole society counsels people without training.

75

 Jun 02, 2013 at 12:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
rebbeleiben Says:

I see from alot of peoples comments that they are afraid to deal with the emes. If this happened to any one of you CV"SH you would sing a different tune.

And if Chas vasholom you were accused falsely you would also sing a different tune.

76

 Jun 02, 2013 at 02:52 PM Avrumele Says:

Reply to #2  
CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

That is for Law Enforcement to decide.

77

 Jun 02, 2013 at 02:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

This is not he v she. I attended the trial on a daily basis, you had to be dumb, not to see his guilt.

78

 Jun 02, 2013 at 05:18 PM jackr Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

he did not force her to go on 14 hour trips - he was going to the country and she needed a ride to Monsey - he dropped her off and made sure to take her father's car to avoid any yichud shaalah - find out ur facts!

please help me with the facts. He took her fathers car? was her father with them ?for the 14 hour drive? If the 2 of them were together in her fathers car alone is that not Yichud?

79

 Jun 02, 2013 at 05:34 PM jackr Says:

Reply to #74  
Anonymous Says:

He engaged in prolonged Yichud . Who says? R moshe is mater going in a car witha girl. May not be the spirt of the law but he was never aver.
Re no training, Thats pure nonsense which rav has training our whole society counsels people without training.

What Rav has training? Would you go to a Doctor that doesn't have training? A Mohel who is not properly trained? How about going to a Rav who doesn't have a proper training in Halacha? Do you send your kids to school with teachers who are not trained educators?
Wake up to the 21st century where there are professionals who know the correct and proper way to deal with issues. The concept that just because you are a Rav you can do and know everything is over!!!!

80

 Jun 02, 2013 at 07:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #79  
jackr Says:

What Rav has training? Would you go to a Doctor that doesn't have training? A Mohel who is not properly trained? How about going to a Rav who doesn't have a proper training in Halacha? Do you send your kids to school with teachers who are not trained educators?
Wake up to the 21st century where there are professionals who know the correct and proper way to deal with issues. The concept that just because you are a Rav you can do and know everything is over!!!!

You may be correct. But all I am saying is you can't say oh there is something fishy because an untrained rav was counseling. All rabbonim especially chasidasha don't have counseling licenses and they all counsel anyhow. You may say its wrong and you wouldn't let your kids get counseled by an unlicensed rav. But that can't make an unlicensed rav guilty. In the non jewish circles counseling a teen without a license is in itself strange and is evidence that something is afoul. You can't say that an unlicensed chasidish rav is evidence of wrong doing. Its just the silliest argument in the whole case thus far. That is not to say he is not guilty but rather the unlicensed part is totally not evidence.

81

 Jun 02, 2013 at 08:40 PM mytake Says:

Reply to #2  
CRITICISM Says:

Agree, but, just like a murderer, we first must make sure that the accused is 100% guilty.

Yeah, but just like a murderer, you don't take up fundraising for the accused and shun the family - or push them away from the community! Quite the contrary, it's the accused-murderer's family who takes the heat, even though they may be the innocent victims too....

82

 Jun 02, 2013 at 08:43 PM mytake Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

It seems that this is the only and biggest issue facing the Jewish communities nowadays. There are NO issues with lack of good paying jobs on the books, education or affordable housing especially for our younger generation.

Those so called rabbis should know that thousands of our younger generation is suffering due to a lack of good paying jobs, lack higher education not even graduating high school or a lack of affordable housing in our communities. Why are there trying to shove more important issues under the hood by being busy with an issue affecting only a few rotten apples.

Yuck - is all I have to say to you

83

 Jun 02, 2013 at 11:02 PM jack-l Says:

Reply to #69  
TruthSpeaks101 Says:

I was molested by an Orthodox Rabbi in our community throughout my teenage years.

I am not the only Victim, I personally know of more, and there are many out there, still being assaulted, we need to SAVE them!
These are our friends, classmates, families, campers, u name it-

Coming from me, it's like having been murdered yet still alive to witness.

i am so sorry to hear of your horrible ordeal.
Mas Hashem give you and all the victims. the strength to heal.
PLs forgive us for allowing this to happen and being ignorant to your pain.
May Hashem also give our rabbinic leaders guidance to lead correctly and wisdom to know their linitations.

84

 Jun 03, 2013 at 01:37 PM Steve Says:

I did not read all of the comments on this page; however I would like to point out something that I find many frum Jews do not realize. When discussing bais din and the need for two kosher witnesses we always assume that if we lack witnesses the judicial process grinds to a halt. this is NOT TRUE. In the event that there are no witnesses bais din has the right (and did do this) to imprison a person that is viewed as a menace to society.
Additionally the gemara relates a way of killing prisoners that are known to be guilty but lack the level of two kosher witnesses whereby the prisoner is feed barley and then given water (I am unclear exactly how this works) which causes his or her stomach to explode thereby killing him or her.
These two ideas are things that are fairly obvious to anyone that studies choshen mishpat or has learned nizekin masechtas.
I am not saying that our judicial system is fair or not and I am not saying that a bais din would want to use our court system to punish someone but there are options that exist.

85

 Jun 03, 2013 at 03:23 PM Yerachmiel Says:

Reply to #13  
ALTERG Says:

Ne news, everybody wants that, but ONLY if he is 100% guilty by a beis din, from a secular court is impossible to get out innocent, cause imagine a girl makes a falsh story on someone its NO WAY you sould go out free (like weberman, no dna, no witnesses, no camera, just he vs she)

Tshuvas H’Rashba, quoted by the Bait Yosef (Yosef Karo) in Choshen Mishpat 386.
These words (all of Hilchos Aidus) were only said when there exists Sanhedrin, mandated as such by the Torah. However, with the law of the land we disregard all these Halachas (Hilchos Aidus), for their laws, (Dina D’malchusa), are a means to seek out the truth, and they (the defendants) are punished according to the law of the land. (This is true) even with witnesses that are relatives, even when the defendant incriminates himself, even without a warning (withou hasra’a), for their laws are a means to seek out the truth. For if you don’t say so, but you’d rather uphold all the laws of the land according to the standards of the Torah when a Sanhedrin exists, the world would be destroyed; for the deceitful and their cohorts would spread (exponentially)…

The above ruling by the Rashbah is cited by R Elyashiv in his ruling authorizing reporting molesters to the civil authorities.

86

 Jun 03, 2013 at 03:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
rebbe123 Says:

well said by a murderer you also need 2 kosher witnesses,
btw since when does a raboi take examples from a newspaper?

Noat acocording to the Rashba when we dont have a sanhedrin.(Tshuvas H’Rashba, quoted by the Bais Yosef in Choshen Mishpat 386.

87

 Jun 03, 2013 at 03:31 PM c Says:

Reply to #66  
jack-l Says:

The wheels of change are now turning slowly in the frun world.
In the chareidi world it is just beginning to turn.
We all have problems with the cavedwellers u mentioned.
They are ignorant ,bigoted, racist and antisemitic.
Some of the drivel they spew makes me sick to my stomach.
The probability that there are many many more like them in the chareidi world.is a cause for concern.
That and the fact they breed...........more ignorance and hatred.

I didn't realize that this article was still being commented on. I just scrolled down to look and see if I missed any comments and I see i did. Thank you for this reply. There is obviously so much good going on the frum world but at times the ignorance, conceit and foolishness of some people can be very frustrating. Being part of Chabad makes this pronounced on a daily basis. Albeit there are many reasonable and level headed people, but there are too many who with their ridiculous beliefs bring shame to the memory of our Rebbe Zt"l. It's much much worse in Eretz Yisroel and these corrupted teachings are being fed to to the ignorant masses there, some of them, especially the more vilde youth, actually buy into this non-sense and become the henchmen of this movement which is a perversion of Torah and Chabad. I realize that I'm off topic but it's frustrating nonetheless.

88

 Jun 03, 2013 at 03:36 PM Yerachmiel Says:

Reply to #36  
Secular Says:

Weberman by his own actions was a Chashud al Ha'arayos, and Passul LeEdus. He engaged in prolonged Yichud with a woman who was an Erva to him. Not to mention, he had no training or credentials to provide 'therapy'. And all for what?, because the girl was allegedly hanging around boys?

Yes. She was guilty of talking to boys so the cure was being biyichud with a man. Those Satmar Vaad Hatznius guys are geniuses!

89

 Jun 03, 2013 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
cool masmid Says:

Not sure where you get that baloney from. Hard to believe that R' Moishe Zt"l who didn't waste a second would find the time to read the newspapers cover to cover. And assuming he did he was not reading the sports section. So before you make such such stupid comments on our previous generation gedolim do your homework first.

R. Moshe has been described reading newspapers regularly by his son-in-law. He was a posek who had to know what is going on in the work to pasken limaiseh. He was not a chinyuk. If his work involved talking to kids who related to sports examples, I am sure R. Moshe would have read the sports page.

I heard a maiseh about a rosh yeshiva. His musmach was an eighth grade rebbe who asked him if he should play basketball with his boys. He was told, "Definitely, but only if you can play at their level."

90

 Jun 03, 2013 at 07:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
cool masmid Says:

Not sure where you get that baloney from. Hard to believe that R' Moishe Zt"l who didn't waste a second would find the time to read the newspapers cover to cover. And assuming he did he was not reading the sports section. So before you make such such stupid comments on our previous generation gedolim do your homework first.

The Satmar Rav had someone read and translate the NYT before his stroke.

The answer is a rav, posek and manhig Yisroail need to know what is going on in order to pasken many shilos.

I agree though that there is no way that R Moshe read the sports section

91

 Jun 04, 2013 at 03:10 PM sechelyoshor Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

The CC derech is to be informed and read the news. I know of a major masmid who was completely out of touch with the news and the Rosh Yeshiva handed him a newspaper and told him to read it (I think he told him to read it during his lunch break)

Maybe if others in our community followed this approach, we'd catch up with the rest of the world and deal with child abuse more responsibly!

92

 Jun 04, 2013 at 11:55 PM simchaonly Says:

Reply to #58  
rogergreen Says:

What's the big deal?What chiddushim is "Rabbi Foolberber" bringing to the table?

with all due respect, please watch how you talk to a very chashuv Rosh Hayeshivah. Someone who dedicates his time and energy into the klal! Someone who gives up his life to teach others and madrich the future generation of am yisrael. Someone who runs a high school on daas torah and proper hashkafah. And you say rabbi Foolburger? Oy vay, if this is your response then how do can we have mashaich? where is the respect for our manhigim? You disagree? So at least do that with respect. At least with a feeling of humility and respect! Please.

93

 Jun 05, 2013 at 12:11 AM simchaonly Says:

Reply to #58  
rogergreen Says:

What's the big deal?What chiddushim is "Rabbi Foolberber" bringing to the table?

thank G-d we have someone in the klal that is bringing this up to the attention in the frum world. Unfortunately it hasnt and its really sad that its not dealt with properly. The velt were willing to invest thousands and thousands of dollars, thousands and thousand of hours, and countless amount of energy ( and "bitul torah", although I wouldnt say it is) into the asifa for the interner which is between the gavra and the cheftza (internet). (which mind you; is a very serious inyan. I am not saying that its not. It could be mispashet to other people but look at the contrast:) And the velt wont invest any substantial amount of anything into this sugya of child molesting? Something that is between adama lechavero? Causing tzar to another person and potentially for the rest of his life! So baruch Hashem we have the zechus to have a choshuv Rav that brings the topic to the table. Hopefully this will sprout many other ideas and machshavus about this and overtime deal with it openly and correctly. May this eventually merapeh all the inflicted and wounded and thereby be zocheh to see the binyan of the Bais Hamikdash. Amen.

94

 Jun 12, 2013 at 11:28 AM Meir1 Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I find it difficult to heed the advice of a "rabbi" who spends his time reading the L.A. Times and more specifically articles like the one regarding a former NBA coaches book.

Don't get me wrong - I read the sports section myself, bu then again... I'm no Rabbi.

Shame on you. Rabbi Stulberger is more of a Rabbi than you will ever know. He is the principal of a world renowned high school in LA for many years. Someone who is as busy as him, yet he finds time to educate himself with topics of the interests of his students, is very admirable. He is looked upon with tremendous respect by ALL of the greatest rabbanim in Los Angeles, and frankly many rabbanim across the world. Before you make the mistake of throwing out a comment that is completely and utterly motzi shem rah, make sure to do your homework. I do agree with you on one thing; You most certainly are NOT a rabbi.

95

 Aug 17, 2013 at 11:12 PM Avaleh Says:

R Stulberger was the best principal I ever had. He gave the best shmuzim; hard hitting and based on FACTS and SOURCES.
I am very pleased we are on the same page with this issue.

96

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