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New York - VIN News Editorial: Immediate Action Needed In E Ramapo?

Published on: July 4, 2013 02:48 PM
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Image grab fro YouTube video where Mr. Kirby is seen leaving the Board meeting room on June 2, 2013 (LuckyLouProduction)Image grab fro YouTube video where Mr. Kirby is seen leaving the Board meeting room on June 2, 2013 (LuckyLouProduction)

New York - There are times when action versus non-action is critical; when decisive leadership is necessary, rather than a mere statement of being “deeply troubled” and talk of “taking something under advisement.”

The rapidly developing situation in the Ramapo school district has the worst elements of a political nightmare; the school board is faced with both a sudden crisis and a smoldering one.  And the consequences and repercussions of them are anything but good.

The sudden crisis was brought about by the rapid decline of civility by the board’s lawyer, Chris Kirby.  Indeed, Kirby’s behavior involved a misogynistic rampage of the worst kind, including abusive behavior, horrific language, threatening behavior and a bullying of a type that one saw in unguarded schoolyards in the 1950’s.

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The smoldering crisis is that many people in the Ramapo District, in the media, and in a growing chorus of voices beyond Ramapo are appalled at what seems to be a lack of “perspective-taking” skills -  the ability to consider the point of view and educational needs of many in the district’s constituency.

The confluence of both of these crises together is what the district’s leadership is facing now.  The problem is that it is not just the district leadership which looks bad.  It reflects negatively on the entire observant Jewish community throughout New York and beyond.

When observant Jews take public or elected office they must be fully cognizant of the potential for Chilul Shem Shamayim of an order that they may never have fully comprehended in the past.  They must be fully prepared for every contingency, such as these two forms of crises.  Their behavior when dealing with any issue, indeed, every crisis is reflective of Torah and our way of life.  This is true whether we like it or not.

If they fail to act properly when faced with such an extreme lack of professionalism and basic human decency, it gives the impression that the Torah tolerates such behavior. And it doesn’t.

The leadership of the school district must act immediately and decisively.  They need to show that there is zero room for tolerance of misogynistic behavior in education.  This is both an American value as well as a Torah value.

Despite the difficult logistics of a holiday weekend, pushing off a meeting that calls for decisive action until 7:00 PM on a Monday is wrong.  Much stronger action is called for.  The board must make an immediate and public apology for what has transpired under their watch, and apologize for their silence during the incident.  While one school board member did publicly state he regrets not taking a strong stance and publicly rebuking Mr. Kirby immediately after his offensive statements, the school board itself must publicly renounce Mr. Kirby’s deplorable behavior.

They must also issue statement that the law firm representing them will be dismissed unless it issues a strong statement of regret and apology or it places Mr. Kirby on an immediate leave of absence.

Until now, there has been a failure in leadership in the manner in which the school board elected officials have handled things.

They have not prepared for and prevented this type of crisis event.  They have dealt with Mr. Kirby for some time, and could have seen this coming.

This is not to say that a member of the Ramapo board did not heroically try to diffuse the situation.  He did try, but part of leadership means to see things coming – in the language of the Talmud to be “ro-eh es hanolad.”

The leadership of the school district should also use this incident to adopt a learning attitude.  Heavy-handedness and not listening to the earnest pleas of the districts constituents is a violation of the idea behind the Torah’s command to judges to genuinely listen – “Shamoa Bain Achichem.”  The Peggy Hattons of the world are people with genuine needs.

While it is true that the needs of observant Jews were ignored and perhaps even trampled upon in the past in the Ramapo district, this is not a reason to bear a grudge.

An emergency meeting should be declared and a statement should be issued immediately.  The statement should be very strong and use the term “zero-tolerance for abusive behavior.”

Anything less will just further compound the ongoing Chilul Hashem that is happening in Ramapo.


More of today's headlines

Washington - At age 80, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, leader of the Supreme Court's liberal wing, says she is in excellent health, even lifting weights despite having... Rockland County, NY - As tensions continue to escalate in the embattled East Ramapo School District after a school board meeting turned into an explosive confrontation...

 

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1

 Jul 04, 2013 at 02:59 PM MonseyLuke Says:

Amen!

Luke.

2

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:02 PM AlterHacker Says:

We must take into account that there are Jewish children with special needs including those from observant homes in the school system, we have an obligation to see that they should not be ignored and neglected.

3

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:07 PM joeynathan Says:

The smoldering crisis is that many people in the Ramapo District, in the media, and in a growing chorus of voices beyond Ramapo are appalled at what seems to be a lack of “perspective-taking” skills - the ability to consider the point of view and educational needs of many in the district’s constituency.
WHAT ABOUT OUR POINT OF VIEW ALL THE MONEY FROM OUR PAYING TAXES GOING TO WASTE WITHOUT CONSIDERING OUR NEEDS
there is a saying what goes around comes around and the frum jews got fed up with the school board not considering there needs and now they run it as they see fit until they are voted out.

4

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:15 PM inNY Says:

Reply to #3  
joeynathan Says:

The smoldering crisis is that many people in the Ramapo District, in the media, and in a growing chorus of voices beyond Ramapo are appalled at what seems to be a lack of “perspective-taking” skills - the ability to consider the point of view and educational needs of many in the district’s constituency.
WHAT ABOUT OUR POINT OF VIEW ALL THE MONEY FROM OUR PAYING TAXES GOING TO WASTE WITHOUT CONSIDERING OUR NEEDS
there is a saying what goes around comes around and the frum jews got fed up with the school board not considering there needs and now they run it as they see fit until they are voted out.

Your 100% correct, however this issue about town's collecting taxes despite that the Jewish community has their own schools is a general serious problem, having said that that Jews sitting on a school board and are just letting their lawyer go on a tirade like this, has no excuses what so ever.

5

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:19 PM Secular Says:

While I applaud the editorial above, and its tepid rebuke of the inaction present by the religious leadership, the (in)actions witnessed represent a broader more insidious and callous approach to the general East Ramapo community.

The complete disregard for the needs of the public school community by these 'askanim', who have no stake at all in the advancement or success of the public school system there is appalling. Rather, the attitude seems to be one of arrogance, aloofness and cold detachment to the needs of the people. וְהִתְבָּרֵךְ בִּלְבָבוֹ לֵאמֹר שָׁלוֹם יִהְיֶה-לִּי--כִּי בִּשְׁרִרוּת לִבִּי, אֵלֵךְ.

Let's not forget, that the Sanhedrin of old did not allow elders to judge capital cases, for fear they had forgotten what it was like to raise children and not display enough mercy or compassion ( Talmud:Sanhedrin 36b, RambaM Sanhedrin 2:3).

אין חכמה ואין תבונה ואין עצה נגד ה' כל מקום שיש חילול השם אין חולקין כבוד לרב

6

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
joeynathan Says:

The smoldering crisis is that many people in the Ramapo District, in the media, and in a growing chorus of voices beyond Ramapo are appalled at what seems to be a lack of “perspective-taking” skills - the ability to consider the point of view and educational needs of many in the district’s constituency.
WHAT ABOUT OUR POINT OF VIEW ALL THE MONEY FROM OUR PAYING TAXES GOING TO WASTE WITHOUT CONSIDERING OUR NEEDS
there is a saying what goes around comes around and the frum jews got fed up with the school board not considering there needs and now they run it as they see fit until they are voted out.

You raise important points. Nevertheless, the board controlled by frum people cannot allow their laywer degrade a mother of a student the way he did.

I'm almost sure this isn't the first time Mr. Kirby and this woman had a run in. If thats the case, than even more, the board should have seen it coming. The board should have controlled it beforehand. If they didn't, they should have said in public to Mr. Kirby to control himself or better yet to shut up.

I agree to most of the article.

7

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:32 PM Realistic Says:

Why is the discussion of the burden on taxpayers taboo? you can see comments of many people who have no pity with the E. Ramapo tax payers which were paying huge tax bills.

From my point of view the issue there is that being a district where 70% of the children don't attend public school, taxes there should be lower then in any place else. I don't think that government is obliged to sponsor private education, but there is no reason the people who send their children in public school, and public school employees should benefit by having so much more houses to tax to fund 30% of the population.

8

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:33 PM Maven Says:

All i know about the E Ramapo school district is what i hear and read.

Even though Mr. Kirby was called with a profane name by a parent and was screamed at in the parking lot still as a professional he should know better and what he did was disgusting.

The term Anti -Semitic is being thrown around alot by Jews even when its not the case. In this case in E Ramapo if anyone reads about it in the last few years and if you watch some clips of the board meetings you will all see that most of the parents ARE VILE ANTI -SEMITES with the help of secular Jews they are being riled up against orthodox Jews.

Guess what you self hating Jews?
Orthodox Jews are here to stay.

9

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:35 PM joeynathan Says:

Reply to #4  
inNY Says:

Your 100% correct, however this issue about town's collecting taxes despite that the Jewish community has their own schools is a general serious problem, having said that that Jews sitting on a school board and are just letting their lawyer go on a tirade like this, has no excuses what so ever.

having said that that Jews sitting on a school board and are just letting their lawyer go on a tirade like this, has no excuses what so ever.
there were other people there besides jews who sit on that school board and they did not speak up ether , why do we have to have this liberal guilt complex and blame ourselves for someones actions that we have know control over.

10

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:36 PM Realistic Says:

Reply to #5  
Secular Says:

While I applaud the editorial above, and its tepid rebuke of the inaction present by the religious leadership, the (in)actions witnessed represent a broader more insidious and callous approach to the general East Ramapo community.

The complete disregard for the needs of the public school community by these 'askanim', who have no stake at all in the advancement or success of the public school system there is appalling. Rather, the attitude seems to be one of arrogance, aloofness and cold detachment to the needs of the people. וְהִתְבָּרֵךְ בִּלְבָבוֹ לֵאמֹר שָׁלוֹם יִהְיֶה-לִּי--כִּי בִּשְׁרִרוּת לִבִּי, אֵלֵךְ.

Let's not forget, that the Sanhedrin of old did not allow elders to judge capital cases, for fear they had forgotten what it was like to raise children and not display enough mercy or compassion ( Talmud:Sanhedrin 36b, RambaM Sanhedrin 2:3).

אין חכמה ואין תבונה ואין עצה נגד ה' כל מקום שיש חילול השם אין חולקין כבוד לרב

Is the job of the school board to run an open ended budget without consideration to the taxpayers?

I read complaints that there is no foreign language or music classes. Is it the obligation of the taxpayer (who 70% of them don't benefit from the public school at all) to sponsor it for them?

11

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:39 PM inNY Says:

Reply to #9  
joeynathan Says:

having said that that Jews sitting on a school board and are just letting their lawyer go on a tirade like this, has no excuses what so ever.
there were other people there besides jews who sit on that school board and they did not speak up ether , why do we have to have this liberal guilt complex and blame ourselves for someones actions that we have know control over.

Because we are the 'AM HANIVCHAR' and we need to be the light onto the nation, unfortunately many Jews now days forget about it.

12

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:44 PM chuchom Says:

Reply to #3  
joeynathan Says:

The smoldering crisis is that many people in the Ramapo District, in the media, and in a growing chorus of voices beyond Ramapo are appalled at what seems to be a lack of “perspective-taking” skills - the ability to consider the point of view and educational needs of many in the district’s constituency.
WHAT ABOUT OUR POINT OF VIEW ALL THE MONEY FROM OUR PAYING TAXES GOING TO WASTE WITHOUT CONSIDERING OUR NEEDS
there is a saying what goes around comes around and the frum jews got fed up with the school board not considering there needs and now they run it as they see fit until they are voted out.

while its true that in the news it's barely mentioned the huge difference what it costs a child education in the private schools and what the taxpayer pays for a child in the PS system,

there is no reason why this behavior should be tolerated, basic decency has nothing to do with weather you agree or disagree with your opponent,

Let's not fool our selves, the media would much rather report on this incident then on the bloated Education system the taxpayer wastes its money,

13

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:44 PM WiseDude Says:

The idea that "Orthodox Jews are here to stay" is extremely arrogant and naive. And I am writing as an Orthodox Jew. If there is one lesson of history, it is that the Jewish presence in any society is tenuous. While we will never be able to escape the wrath of the anti Semites who rise up each and every generation, we do have an obligation to go above and beyond the mere obligations and to represent ourselves, Torah and Hashem with dignity and with concern for our fellow human beings of every background. That's how I see it. We are playing with fire and its time to put down the matches.

14

 Jul 04, 2013 at 03:46 PM joeynathan Says:

Reply to #11  
inNY Says:

Because we are the 'AM HANIVCHAR' and we need to be the light onto the nation, unfortunately many Jews now days forget about it.

Because we are the 'AM HANIVCHAR' and we need to be the light onto the nation,
please remember we live in america and these board meetings are run the american way and not the jewish way.

15

 Jul 04, 2013 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
AlterHacker Says:

We must take into account that there are Jewish children with special needs including those from observant homes in the school system, we have an obligation to see that they should not be ignored and neglected.

"We must take into account that there are Jewish children with special needs including those from observant homes in the school system, we have an obligation to see that they should not be ignored and neglected."

Orthodox children are certainly not ignored. The haredi board has arranged for many of them to attend school in Connecticut at 97 thousand dollars per year. It's all documented in the NY state audit. This 97k is being paid to haredi owned special education centers. I could live in the Plaza for a year for less than that. PLEASE READ THE NY STATE AUDIT ONLINE.

Most Orthodox kinder are shipped out of the district for special ed classes when we have excellent local therapists. The therapists chosen by the school board are not even certified!!! Sound familiar to a Rabbi a few months back who had no credentials yet was counseling young girls in his house???

Wake up people!!! Soon all hell will break loose on additional findings. When you read them, you will claim everyone is anti-Semitic. They aren't.

16

 Jul 04, 2013 at 04:31 PM Maven Says:

Jews have to behave in order not causing a chilul hashem.Although we are allowed to ask and fight for our rights it has to be done with respect and low keyed.

It seems to me that the squabble in E Ramapo is not so much with the "parents" as it is between Orthodox Jews (Jews who observe torah) and secular Jews(Jews who do not observe torah doing whatever their heart desires).
The venom and hate from secular Jews toward observant Jews is unbelievable.
Perhaps "Luke" can verify.

17

 Jul 04, 2013 at 04:33 PM gimmeabreak Says:

Reply to #10  
Realistic Says:

Is the job of the school board to run an open ended budget without consideration to the taxpayers?

I read complaints that there is no foreign language or music classes. Is it the obligation of the taxpayer (who 70% of them don't benefit from the public school at all) to sponsor it for them?

#10

Yes, it is.

18

 Jul 04, 2013 at 04:35 PM Lodzker Says:

Reply to #8  
Maven Says:

All i know about the E Ramapo school district is what i hear and read.

Even though Mr. Kirby was called with a profane name by a parent and was screamed at in the parking lot still as a professional he should know better and what he did was disgusting.

The term Anti -Semitic is being thrown around alot by Jews even when its not the case. In this case in E Ramapo if anyone reads about it in the last few years and if you watch some clips of the board meetings you will all see that most of the parents ARE VILE ANTI -SEMITES with the help of secular Jews they are being riled up against orthodox Jews.

Guess what you self hating Jews?
Orthodox Jews are here to stay.

Yes. we dont forget that it was our neighbors who aided and turned us in to nazis and pillages our property in ww2.

19

 Jul 04, 2013 at 04:54 PM AlterHacker Says:

Reply to #4  
inNY Says:

Your 100% correct, however this issue about town's collecting taxes despite that the Jewish community has their own schools is a general serious problem, having said that that Jews sitting on a school board and are just letting their lawyer go on a tirade like this, has no excuses what so ever.

Untill the day that the jewish community in E. Rampo will establish a low-tuition school for children with special needs, the community should bare the burden of suporting the public school system, since there are Jewish children in the public school system and they have no where else to go.

20

 Jul 04, 2013 at 05:01 PM AlterHacker Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

"We must take into account that there are Jewish children with special needs including those from observant homes in the school system, we have an obligation to see that they should not be ignored and neglected."

Orthodox children are certainly not ignored. The haredi board has arranged for many of them to attend school in Connecticut at 97 thousand dollars per year. It's all documented in the NY state audit. This 97k is being paid to haredi owned special education centers. I could live in the Plaza for a year for less than that. PLEASE READ THE NY STATE AUDIT ONLINE.

Most Orthodox kinder are shipped out of the district for special ed classes when we have excellent local therapists. The therapists chosen by the school board are not even certified!!! Sound familiar to a Rabbi a few months back who had no credentials yet was counseling young girls in his house???

Wake up people!!! Soon all hell will break loose on additional findings. When you read them, you will claim everyone is anti-Semitic. They aren't.

So why is there several handfull of Jewish children from observant homes in the public school system?

21

 Jul 04, 2013 at 05:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Realistic Says:

Is the job of the school board to run an open ended budget without consideration to the taxpayers?

I read complaints that there is no foreign language or music classes. Is it the obligation of the taxpayer (who 70% of them don't benefit from the public school at all) to sponsor it for them?

"I read complaints that there is no foreign language or music classes. Is it the obligation of the taxpayer (who 70% of them don't benefit from the public school at all) to sponsor it for them?"

Yes. Art, music and foreign languages were cut. It is everyone's responsibility to provide them in the public schools. In your schools, math, science and English are not critical. One cannot earn a living just by studying Torah. Most of us need to work so we can support ourselves. Public schools have this responsibility. Hey, someone has to work to support your 15 kids, right?

22

 Jul 04, 2013 at 05:18 PM MonseyLuke Says:

"The venom and hate from secular Jews toward observant Jews is unbelievable.
Perhaps "Luke" can verify."

You could not be more wrong my friend. Just go look at my latest post in the previous article about Mr. Rotham. It is people like you that hide behind hate and refuse to see the actual picture, but in a moments notice circle the wagons and scream antisemitism or the old, self hating diatribe. Take a look at the tension level in Ramapo now v. ten years old. It's grown exponentially.

If you would use that same energy you use to hate to help repair the situation, we would be light years ahead, but no, it's easier to pontificate about us v. them. By the way, I am not a "them" but an "us." Thanks for stopping by!

Enough of the hate, back to the pool.

Luke.

23

 Jul 04, 2013 at 05:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Secular Says:

While I applaud the editorial above, and its tepid rebuke of the inaction present by the religious leadership, the (in)actions witnessed represent a broader more insidious and callous approach to the general East Ramapo community.

The complete disregard for the needs of the public school community by these 'askanim', who have no stake at all in the advancement or success of the public school system there is appalling. Rather, the attitude seems to be one of arrogance, aloofness and cold detachment to the needs of the people. וְהִתְבָּרֵךְ בִּלְבָבוֹ לֵאמֹר שָׁלוֹם יִהְיֶה-לִּי--כִּי בִּשְׁרִרוּת לִבִּי, אֵלֵךְ.

Let's not forget, that the Sanhedrin of old did not allow elders to judge capital cases, for fear they had forgotten what it was like to raise children and not display enough mercy or compassion ( Talmud:Sanhedrin 36b, RambaM Sanhedrin 2:3).

אין חכמה ואין תבונה ואין עצה נגד ה' כל מקום שיש חילול השם אין חולקין כבוד לרב

What a pile if hoohaa, not unexpected considering where it is coming from.

The overwhelming majority of the budget is for public school children, even though they represent less than 1/3 of the total school age children. And that includes the costs of mandated services, which are supposed to be available for all children.

In addition, the budget increased by 18,000,000 this year, an increase of 9%. That is not going to the private school community. It is to cover the ever increasing union contract costs and benefits costs. Those are costs associated with the public school children.
Peggy Hatton and Luciano want to deny all services, even those mandated, to the chareidi schools (yes specifically) look at their own posted comments.

This is not a case of a board ignoring public school children, rather a board trying to balance a responsible budget while providing services to all those entitled. Not like Hatton & crew who want to exclude. Shame on you. You are as vile as she is.

24

 Jul 04, 2013 at 05:40 PM Grumpy Says:

Reply to #13  
WiseDude Says:

The idea that "Orthodox Jews are here to stay" is extremely arrogant and naive. And I am writing as an Orthodox Jew. If there is one lesson of history, it is that the Jewish presence in any society is tenuous. While we will never be able to escape the wrath of the anti Semites who rise up each and every generation, we do have an obligation to go above and beyond the mere obligations and to represent ourselves, Torah and Hashem with dignity and with concern for our fellow human beings of every background. That's how I see it. We are playing with fire and its time to put down the matches.

HELLO!!!! Better pay attention to "WiseDude." He's right .... ! There's this little thing called "history" which if we have enough brains to learn something from, teaches us that the moment Jews start believing that they're "here to stay" is the moment someone somewhere begins wondering if that's such a good idea.

25

 Jul 04, 2013 at 05:56 PM mrs5towns Says:

Would it shock anyone to know that the very same law firm is representing the Lawrence school district in the 5 towns ?

26

 Jul 04, 2013 at 05:56 PM Maven Says:

Anyone following "MonseyLuke" comments in general will notice how he is badmouthing the orthodox community in Monsey/spring valley at every opportunity.Any politician who was voted in by the majority of orthodox Jews MonseyLuke is on a campaign to bring down that politician.
Im almost certain that MonseyLuke was at the parking lot screaming match yesterday i wouldn't be surprised if he was the one calling Kirby a derogatory name.

27

 Jul 04, 2013 at 06:19 PM OYVY2 Says:

Reply to #9  
joeynathan Says:

having said that that Jews sitting on a school board and are just letting their lawyer go on a tirade like this, has no excuses what so ever.
there were other people there besides jews who sit on that school board and they did not speak up ether , why do we have to have this liberal guilt complex and blame ourselves for someones actions that we have know control over.

This has nothing to with liberal guilt or even the facts of paying taxes to the public school.And it is true that many frum students receive benifits from the public school monies. Simply put, the "frum "people on the board should have spoken up and stopped the tirade of this lawyer. we answer to a higher authority. It is known that these two have had words before, it should have been stopped.

28

 Jul 04, 2013 at 07:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Maven Says:

Anyone following "MonseyLuke" comments in general will notice how he is badmouthing the orthodox community in Monsey/spring valley at every opportunity.Any politician who was voted in by the majority of orthodox Jews MonseyLuke is on a campaign to bring down that politician.
Im almost certain that MonseyLuke was at the parking lot screaming match yesterday i wouldn't be surprised if he was the one calling Kirby a derogatory name.

"Any politician who was voted in by the majority of orthodox Jews MonseyLuke is on a campaign to bring down that politician."

Luke doesn't have to bring down politicians. They are being investigated by the Feds and you will all shortly see what is down the road for these politicians and the Rabbonim who made their careers successful. Follow the money trail and follow the people who wore wires for 2 years and follow the cash payments. Stay tuned.

Luke, I always enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your knowledge and insider information. I don't have time or the stomach to pay attention, but you do.
Thanks!

29

 Jul 04, 2013 at 07:46 PM pbalaw Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

"I read complaints that there is no foreign language or music classes. Is it the obligation of the taxpayer (who 70% of them don't benefit from the public school at all) to sponsor it for them?"

Yes. Art, music and foreign languages were cut. It is everyone's responsibility to provide them in the public schools. In your schools, math, science and English are not critical. One cannot earn a living just by studying Torah. Most of us need to work so we can support ourselves. Public schools have this responsibility. Hey, someone has to work to support your 15 kids, right?

Nothing was cut that is required , show me the statute where we need to provide extra stuff.

You prob are not a ER tax payer.

It's very simple. We have been getting screwed for many many years so many years that even with a frum controlled board they are having a very hard time brink g down costs because of previous non frum boards.

These board members are ALL tzadikkm that have much better things to do with their time then save us .

Please show respect for them.

As for the lawyer, again we did not see what happens before the tape rolled, however I have personally seen this chevrah and they are ugly ugly.

So he lost it, big deal.. You never list it? You should be fired?

Stick together and stop the I fighting .

If you don't agree with me, do more research on the history of the ERSD.

Happy 4th

30

 Jul 04, 2013 at 08:35 PM Liepa Says:

Seems to me, a system of fairness needs to be brought to the table. With the help of the local politicians, multiple tiers of tax brackets needs to be setup.

Tier 1: Over five kids in public school system.
Tier 2: Over three kids (up to 5 inclusive) in public school system.
Tier 3: One to three (inclusive) kids in public school system.
Tier 4: Zero kids in public school system.

With tier 1 paying the highest in taxes and tier 4 paying the lesser amount.
The tiers inclusions or/and exclusions can be adjusted accordingly as befitting the local population.

Under this type of system the parents clamoring for music lessons and foreign language instruction etc. can have it all, providing there's money in the budget.

It's just not fair to burden the many for the few!

31

 Jul 04, 2013 at 09:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

"Any politician who was voted in by the majority of orthodox Jews MonseyLuke is on a campaign to bring down that politician."

Luke doesn't have to bring down politicians. They are being investigated by the Feds and you will all shortly see what is down the road for these politicians and the Rabbonim who made their careers successful. Follow the money trail and follow the people who wore wires for 2 years and follow the cash payments. Stay tuned.

Luke, I always enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your knowledge and insider information. I don't have time or the stomach to pay attention, but you do.
Thanks!

So who will replace CSL? Is there an election coming up? Will someone from the board replace him?

32

 Jul 04, 2013 at 09:27 PM gabe_e12 Says:

Reply to #10  
Realistic Says:

Is the job of the school board to run an open ended budget without consideration to the taxpayers?

I read complaints that there is no foreign language or music classes. Is it the obligation of the taxpayer (who 70% of them don't benefit from the public school at all) to sponsor it for them?

I believe part of the problem is that the media prtrays the orthodox parents as sending their chidren to "private schools". "Private schools" paints a picture of the elitist acadmeys that the privledge class sends their children to. The orthodox should take the public school parentsfor a tour of the "private schools" they send their own children to, where ther too there are no foreign language classes nor arts programs. The message should be, we're witholding it from our own kids which we're paying for out of pocket, we sure as hell aren't going to be taxed into providing it for public schools!

33

 Jul 04, 2013 at 09:05 PM Fire him Says:

If Chris Kirby is not held accountable for his behavior and fired, every schoolyard bully has reason to look at him and say, if he can do it, why can't I?

And there are bullies at Yeshivas too...

34

 Jul 04, 2013 at 11:17 PM MonseyLuke Says:

Reply to #26  
Maven Says:

Anyone following "MonseyLuke" comments in general will notice how he is badmouthing the orthodox community in Monsey/spring valley at every opportunity.Any politician who was voted in by the majority of orthodox Jews MonseyLuke is on a campaign to bring down that politician.
Im almost certain that MonseyLuke was at the parking lot screaming match yesterday i wouldn't be surprised if he was the one calling Kirby a derogatory name.

Clueless & Hateful or should I say "Maven" :

I am on no campaign to bring down anyone. They are doing a good enough job on their own. I am just wondering why certain politician who are always at the ready to rue the woes of ERCSD suddenly are mute when a horrific occurrence such as what happened on Tuesday night occurs. See how they all run and hide. Friedman specifically noted the he wants to work in unison with the District. CSL said a year ago he would sit with Klein and help him with the books (actually thank G-d that never happened .) Okay, so an attorney goes AWOL at a meeting and receives international press and Ramapo official are silent ? I guess you may like getting wh#red for your vote but I, my friend, do not.

You purport to know who I am. However, if you did, you would know I have never utilized the services of the District and therefore, I have no reason to attend Board meetings. You are just a hate inciting individual. If you would only channel that energy and use it for good you could help in the easing of tensions in this Town, but no you just continue to myopically circle the wagons and espouse hate.

Say hello to Yossi for me.

Luke.

35

 Jul 04, 2013 at 11:30 PM MonseyLuke Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

"Any politician who was voted in by the majority of orthodox Jews MonseyLuke is on a campaign to bring down that politician."

Luke doesn't have to bring down politicians. They are being investigated by the Feds and you will all shortly see what is down the road for these politicians and the Rabbonim who made their careers successful. Follow the money trail and follow the people who wore wires for 2 years and follow the cash payments. Stay tuned.

Luke, I always enjoy reading your posts and appreciate your knowledge and insider information. I don't have time or the stomach to pay attention, but you do.
Thanks!

Anon 28:

You are so astute as to what came down. You are correct, the wired individuals are pivotal and the reason the raid occurred. So as Maven blindly goes off to the voting booth to check off the "see no evil, hear no evil" drones that wh#red his vote, you and I can sit back and know that we stand on the moral side of the line he and his cohorts helped cast in the sand. "Betcha" they will feel used when the axe drops.

Thanks for your kind words. An early Good Shabbos.

Luke.

36

 Jul 04, 2013 at 11:54 PM Anonymous Says:

How do you know anyone was wired? That is nothing but speculation. The ballpark was a farce, but there is no evidence of bribes, or wired individuals. These are merely rumors. And if he goes down, who is next up in his place? That is the real question of the hour.

37

 Jul 05, 2013 at 08:34 AM MonseyLuke Says:

Reply to #30  
Liepa Says:

Seems to me, a system of fairness needs to be brought to the table. With the help of the local politicians, multiple tiers of tax brackets needs to be setup.

Tier 1: Over five kids in public school system.
Tier 2: Over three kids (up to 5 inclusive) in public school system.
Tier 3: One to three (inclusive) kids in public school system.
Tier 4: Zero kids in public school system.

With tier 1 paying the highest in taxes and tier 4 paying the lesser amount.
The tiers inclusions or/and exclusions can be adjusted accordingly as befitting the local population.

Under this type of system the parents clamoring for music lessons and foreign language instruction etc. can have it all, providing there's money in the budget.

It's just not fair to burden the many for the few!

Great idea but with one caveat. It must translate to social services, Section 8, and unemployment. I have never utilized any of those services so I want Tier 4 for paying for them as well. I mean, if we are going to alter the Great Society concept of LBJ let's at least do it across the board. While you are at it why not cap benefits so if you are already on assistance your monthly stipend doesn't increase even as you continue to have more children. It would encourage more personal responsibility and probably reduce the number of people on the dole. I think you are onto something huge!

"It's just not fair to burden the many for the few!" So American, and my new mantra!

Thanks for sharing.

Luke.

38

 Jul 05, 2013 at 08:56 AM Trying Says:

There is an irony when reading all these posts about an educational issue: Many of the posters do not know how to properly spell or proper English usage. What does that say about the state of education and the need for improvement?

39

 Jul 05, 2013 at 09:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

How do you know anyone was wired? That is nothing but speculation. The ballpark was a farce, but there is no evidence of bribes, or wired individuals. These are merely rumors. And if he goes down, who is next up in his place? That is the real question of the hour.

"How do you know anyone was wired? That is nothing but speculation."

Several newspapers stated it various times. One person was wired for 2 years and there may have been several. As far as bribes, stay tuned. Good things are worth waiting for. :)

40

 Jul 05, 2013 at 09:45 AM yeah Says:

Chris Kirby had a nervous breakdown in public the other night.
Nobody seems to care.
Those ERCSD parents have no limits imposed upon their viscousness. Jewish people grow up with anti-semitism. We know how to ignore it. For a gentile to sit at thay meeting and be the victim of such ceaseless hatred must be very disturbing for him. He should have a refua shelaima, and sue them for treating him as if he were a charedei.

41

 Jul 05, 2013 at 09:50 AM Anonymous Says:

By the way, this law firm is getting 650 per hour, not 250. The former law firm was being paid 150 per hour. Daniel Schwartz fired the former law firm of 15 years and brought in the new firm from 5Towns. Travel expenses back and forth from Long Island are 150 per hour. Your taxpayers' dollars are paying these exorbitant rates. Now you will have to pay even more because more attorneys need to be hired to investigate the "c" word episode. Is it worth it? I would rather have the gelt be paid for new books and security staff. Wouldn't you?

42

 Jul 05, 2013 at 10:03 AM ayoldguy1 Says:

I live in the Monsey area, been here almost 4 years. I've had just about enough of the acrimonious politics here - and will be moving out. I see both sides of this story, but it's staggering to me how little the representatives of the Jewish community as a group think or care about just how badly these and other power grabs and machinations damage the reputation and good name of Orthodox Jews around Metro NY. Goodbye, Monsey. It wasn't nice knowing you.

43

 Jul 05, 2013 at 10:07 AM Anonymous Says:

There is not even one newspaper article that says anyone wore a wire and taped Christopher St. Lawrence. Not one. I will believe it when I see it. Not to say the guy isn't a shady character and it is a shame the frummies in Monsey got in bed with him, so to speak. They should be embarrassed to be involved with the man, but I have not seen one article that says he was wired and I follow it closely. If I am wrong, prove it.

44

 Jul 05, 2013 at 10:15 AM ayoldguy1 Says:

Reply to #3  
joeynathan Says:

The smoldering crisis is that many people in the Ramapo District, in the media, and in a growing chorus of voices beyond Ramapo are appalled at what seems to be a lack of “perspective-taking” skills - the ability to consider the point of view and educational needs of many in the district’s constituency.
WHAT ABOUT OUR POINT OF VIEW ALL THE MONEY FROM OUR PAYING TAXES GOING TO WASTE WITHOUT CONSIDERING OUR NEEDS
there is a saying what goes around comes around and the frum jews got fed up with the school board not considering there needs and now they run it as they see fit until they are voted out.

I agree - but somewhat. Yes, the board HAS been democratically elected. But, what is 'waste' to you may not be 'waste' to the thousands of public school parents and kids. Furthermore, Jews in general should not be expecting the government or non-Jewish taxpayers to foot the bill for their private education choices. Runaway day school costs and general unaffordability is our are our own messes to clean up.

45

 Jul 05, 2013 at 10:18 AM ayoldguy1 Says:

Reply to #7  
Realistic Says:

Why is the discussion of the burden on taxpayers taboo? you can see comments of many people who have no pity with the E. Ramapo tax payers which were paying huge tax bills.

From my point of view the issue there is that being a district where 70% of the children don't attend public school, taxes there should be lower then in any place else. I don't think that government is obliged to sponsor private education, but there is no reason the people who send their children in public school, and public school employees should benefit by having so much more houses to tax to fund 30% of the population.

You are correct in the point you made that if 70% of E Ramapo children attend private school. If that's the case, then why do you think that we have runaway property taxes in the district?

46

 Jul 05, 2013 at 10:25 AM Monsey Yid Says:

As a Monsey resident for over 20 Years. I can tell you that Monsey has become a chilul hashem producing machine. and most old time Monsey'ers will agree. It s embarrassing to be a Monsey resident today.

Its time to stop listening to all the machers and askonim and vote the way we understand best.

MONSEY LUKE. You are a voice of reason for our community. keep up the great work. You save us a lot of time answering the real Self hating jews.

47

 Jul 05, 2013 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
Monsey Yid Says:

As a Monsey resident for over 20 Years. I can tell you that Monsey has become a chilul hashem producing machine. and most old time Monsey'ers will agree. It s embarrassing to be a Monsey resident today.

Its time to stop listening to all the machers and askonim and vote the way we understand best.

MONSEY LUKE. You are a voice of reason for our community. keep up the great work. You save us a lot of time answering the real Self hating jews.

"MONSEY LUKE. You are a voice of reason for our community. keep up the great work. You save us a lot of time answering the real Self hating jews.

You are so correct. Most people now in Rockland hate ALL Jews and don't know the difference between sects. At my hair salon, all they talk about is how the Monsey Jews ruined the town....and I live in New City. They better not mess with our school board since we are rated one of the top districts in the state. People fear Frum like the plague around here.

48

 Jul 05, 2013 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

No doubt the machers will tell us to vote for CSL in the next election. Should we? Who should we vote for? Who is against him running?

49

 Jul 05, 2013 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
ayoldguy1 Says:

You are correct in the point you made that if 70% of E Ramapo children attend private school. If that's the case, then why do you think that we have runaway property taxes in the district?

"If that's the case, then why do you think that we have runaway property taxes in the district?"

Lots of cash being spent for unidentified items, $650 an hour for a Long Island attorney alone was almost 1 million dollars!! Books ordered and being sent to Yeshivas in Brooklyn. (according to the NYS audit) Read the entire audit and see why the state is so involved. No indictments yet.......

50

 Jul 05, 2013 at 12:30 PM ayoldguy1 Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

"If that's the case, then why do you think that we have runaway property taxes in the district?"

Lots of cash being spent for unidentified items, $650 an hour for a Long Island attorney alone was almost 1 million dollars!! Books ordered and being sent to Yeshivas in Brooklyn. (according to the NYS audit) Read the entire audit and see why the state is so involved. No indictments yet.......

Where can I find the audit? And does this have anything to do with the FBI raid?

51

 Jul 05, 2013 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
Anonymous Says:

No doubt the machers will tell us to vote for CSL in the next election. Should we? Who should we vote for? Who is against him running?

"No doubt the machers will tell us to vote for CSL in the next election. Should we? Who should we vote for? Who is against him running?"

Why can't you think for yourself? Read and research the candidates. Didn't you learn how to do that in your schools? Don't they teach independent thinking? Why follow what the Rabbonim say? Look at how they misguided everyone so far!

A Ruv says go burn down a house in the middle of the night and....your kids listen! Another Ruv says don't get your kids measles shots, and you listen. Another one says no internet or cell phones and you have to hide your activities.
Another one says keep quiet if your kid is molested and don't go to the police.

UNREAL

52

 Jul 06, 2013 at 05:20 AM stacygutner Says:

Reply to #2  
AlterHacker Says:

We must take into account that there are Jewish children with special needs including those from observant homes in the school system, we have an obligation to see that they should not be ignored and neglected.

The observant children are being taken care of, it's the needs of the others that are not, "regular" and "special needs"!

53

 Jul 06, 2013 at 05:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
joeynathan Says:

The smoldering crisis is that many people in the Ramapo District, in the media, and in a growing chorus of voices beyond Ramapo are appalled at what seems to be a lack of “perspective-taking” skills - the ability to consider the point of view and educational needs of many in the district’s constituency.
WHAT ABOUT OUR POINT OF VIEW ALL THE MONEY FROM OUR PAYING TAXES GOING TO WASTE WITHOUT CONSIDERING OUR NEEDS
there is a saying what goes around comes around and the frum jews got fed up with the school board not considering there needs and now they run it as they see fit until they are voted out.

Sorry but there is a difference between Public and Private.............tax dollars should go to the Public, all public. Private should remain that way, sorry but if you want it private then that's what happens.

54

 Jul 06, 2013 at 05:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
joeynathan Says:

having said that that Jews sitting on a school board and are just letting their lawyer go on a tirade like this, has no excuses what so ever.
there were other people there besides jews who sit on that school board and they did not speak up ether , why do we have to have this liberal guilt complex and blame ourselves for someones actions that we have know control over.

The school board is made up of all observant jews, check it out.

55

 Jul 06, 2013 at 05:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
gabe_e12 Says:

I believe part of the problem is that the media prtrays the orthodox parents as sending their chidren to "private schools". "Private schools" paints a picture of the elitist acadmeys that the privledge class sends their children to. The orthodox should take the public school parentsfor a tour of the "private schools" they send their own children to, where ther too there are no foreign language classes nor arts programs. The message should be, we're witholding it from our own kids which we're paying for out of pocket, we sure as hell aren't going to be taxed into providing it for public schools!

I am guessing you don't understand the Yeshivas and how they educate their children. They do not offer what the public schools offer because they do not educate their children that way. Learn how Yeshivas work, they are segregated, girls and boys for a reason. They don't offer foreign languages because they are taught in Yiddish or Hebrew and English. You need to become aware of the differences.

56

 Jul 06, 2013 at 05:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

"MONSEY LUKE. You are a voice of reason for our community. keep up the great work. You save us a lot of time answering the real Self hating jews.

You are so correct. Most people now in Rockland hate ALL Jews and don't know the difference between sects. At my hair salon, all they talk about is how the Monsey Jews ruined the town....and I live in New City. They better not mess with our school board since we are rated one of the top districts in the state. People fear Frum like the plague around here.

You are so right, people do not know the difference between the sects and that is making it bad for all Jews!

57

 Jul 06, 2013 at 10:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Secular Says:

While I applaud the editorial above, and its tepid rebuke of the inaction present by the religious leadership, the (in)actions witnessed represent a broader more insidious and callous approach to the general East Ramapo community.

The complete disregard for the needs of the public school community by these 'askanim', who have no stake at all in the advancement or success of the public school system there is appalling. Rather, the attitude seems to be one of arrogance, aloofness and cold detachment to the needs of the people. וְהִתְבָּרֵךְ בִּלְבָבוֹ לֵאמֹר שָׁלוֹם יִהְיֶה-לִּי--כִּי בִּשְׁרִרוּת לִבִּי, אֵלֵךְ.

Let's not forget, that the Sanhedrin of old did not allow elders to judge capital cases, for fear they had forgotten what it was like to raise children and not display enough mercy or compassion ( Talmud:Sanhedrin 36b, RambaM Sanhedrin 2:3).

אין חכמה ואין תבונה ואין עצה נגד ה' כל מקום שיש חילול השם אין חולקין כבוד לרב

Amen to "Secular's" sentiment -- I couldn't agree more that this editorial misses the bigger picture. This is not about a lawyer's bad behavior. I graduated Ramapo High School with enough AP credits to enter college as a sophomore. I benefitted tremendously from RHS's once-thriving theater program which taught me team work and empathy. Now East Ramapo's graduation rate has plummeted, important programs have been decimated, and the schools are in horrible disrepair. Any leader -- regardless of religious affiliation -- who allows one of the best school districts to turn into one of the worst, forcing students to suffer should be ashamed. But this situation certainly casts a very dark shadow on the Orthodox Jewish community due to the lack of leadership shown by members of the school board, many of whom have no stake in the public schools. Any Orthodox community member who cares to live in harmony with other communities should be terribly alarmed.

58

 Jul 06, 2013 at 08:53 PM MonseyLuke Says:

"Still no answer! Trivia: There's a street in Spring Valley that has parts of it in 3 different Election Districts & 2 zip codes. What is it?"

This is from mayoral hopeful Town Councilman Friedman.

Yes, Mr. Friedman. Still no opine on your thoughts on last Tuesday's events at ERCSD's meeting. I guess electoral trivia trumps under served school children. Good job! Pander for your votes.

Hoping you enjoyed the weekend at the stadium you voted blindly on.

Luke.

Luke.

59

 Jul 06, 2013 at 09:20 PM MonseyLuke Says:

Mr. Friedman : Is one awaiting the decision of the Rebbis before one can opine on the horrific events of last Tuesday's ERCSD meeting? Do tell. BTW, How is the financial statement for 2012 looking for the ballpark? Can't wait to share in the success!

Luke.

60

 Jul 06, 2013 at 10:06 PM MonseyLuke Says:

Oh, and Mr. Friedman, you commented here before so we know you access the blog. So please give us a ERCSD update and a stadium financial update. How cool is that!

Luke.

61

 Jul 06, 2013 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
MonseyLuke Says:

Mr. Friedman : Is one awaiting the decision of the Rebbis before one can opine on the horrific events of last Tuesday's ERCSD meeting? Do tell. BTW, How is the financial statement for 2012 looking for the ballpark? Can't wait to share in the success!

Luke.

What will the Rebbis decide to do? Will they fire the attorney or let him stay on? What benefits the Rebbis? I think they will fire him because there is too much national attention now on the Hasidim and it's not in a good light. But, they will need to choose another law firm which could be even more expensive than $650 per hour and even more disgraceful.

62

 Jul 06, 2013 at 11:04 PM MonseyLuke Says:

So I guess we have the answer. Under served children don't vote and Mr. Friedman's constituency doesn't include under served children. So sad !

63

 Jul 07, 2013 at 07:05 PM MonseyLuke Says:

Reply to #46  
Monsey Yid Says:

As a Monsey resident for over 20 Years. I can tell you that Monsey has become a chilul hashem producing machine. and most old time Monsey'ers will agree. It s embarrassing to be a Monsey resident today.

Its time to stop listening to all the machers and askonim and vote the way we understand best.

MONSEY LUKE. You are a voice of reason for our community. keep up the great work. You save us a lot of time answering the real Self hating jews.

Monsey Yid Says:

Thank you for your kind words!

Luke.

64

 Jul 07, 2013 at 08:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
MonseyLuke Says:

Monsey Yid Says:

Thank you for your kind words!

Luke.

Luke, I hope you will go to the rally tomorrow night?

65

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