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Ramat Beit Shemesh, Israel - Following the Lead of Their Rebbetzin, Some Jewish Women Dress in Burqas

Published on: February 1, 2008 06:01 PM
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Ramat Beit Shemesh, Israel - A small contingent of Orthodox Jewish women in the Israeli city of Ramat Beit Shemesh, near Jerusalem, has taken the laws of modesty to new heights.

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The Haredi women have ditched their wigs and long black skirts in favor of burqas, apparently following the lead of a Ramat Beit Shemesh rebbetzin.

The Jewish burqas — which has also spread to other ultra-Orthodox communities — have not been well received by rabbis or by other religious authorities. [forward]


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Read Comments (75)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Feb 05, 2008 at 08:37 PM Anonymous Says:

the chazon ish lived in lite, where almost no one had cars, then in bnei brak ditto, and it is unlikely that he ever said anything about women driving.

If I'm wrong, and he did, PLEASE PROVIDE A SOURCE.

Unsourced, the statement should be rejected as implausible.

2

 Feb 05, 2008 at 10:23 AM NatK Says:

poster at 9:45 wrote:
Think about it, don't you think we have gone too far, with our Blond wigs.
Since when are blonde wigs not tznius? What about red wigs, brunette wigs and raven black wigs?

3

 Feb 05, 2008 at 09:56 AM Dena Says:

I like what Avi said.
If this woman hadn't been dressed the way she was she wouldn't have been seen by so many people! Mabye she thinks it's a Kiddush Hashem.

Me, I think it's sick.

4

 Feb 04, 2008 at 08:12 PM Avi Says:

The irony is that had this woman dressed normally, her picture would not have been seen by 100,000people.

In fact, her dressing like this is likely yehura, and is not tznua. What irony.

5

 Feb 04, 2008 at 09:46 AM Anonymous Says:

I was undecided about this issue until I read the comments of Anon 8:24 with which Matzahlocal101 has kindly informed us he agrees.

Having read 8:24 I see that Matzahlocal101 is another cognative dissonance-suffering Westerner whos under developed emotional health leaves him incapable of assimilating the fact that the vast majority of Arabs and other Muslims fully support the use of suicide bombers against our civilian populations.

I appreciate the help of both of the above referenced posters in settling the issue for me.

6

 Feb 04, 2008 at 01:33 AM matzahlocal101 Says:

Anon 12:37 AM had the best comment, but that aside, I'm in agreement with 8:24. The problem is after soaking in Goyish culture many among us have forgotton or never even knew what Jewish values are. 12:16 is a classic example:
"As a Bais Yakov student I can say that I was taught to dress attractive not attracting." Aside from the inherent contradiction if it's not attracting, it's not attractive, this misuse of words in order to make you feel good does not change the fact that you and the teacher or menaheles that gave you, what you thought was a good one liner, does not have a clue as to what the word tznius means. There is not a single matzaivah in the entire world that reads "here lies rebetzin so and so she was a woman who dressed tzniusdik. Either the woman was a "Tzanuah" or she wasn't. A woman can wear a burqa, be covered head to toe and still not be tzniusdik. Tznius is not a mode of dress, it is a mindset. The mindset is reflected in the way she dresses, the way she talks, and the way she walks. A 12 year old girl in Williamsburg or Viznitz or Skver, knows more about tznius than most of the Livatvishe teachers in Bais Yaakov. Agav if a Jewish woman chooses to wear a burqa, why should it bother someone else, especially if that person dresses tzniusdik? The fact that Modern Orthodox have been mevatel the Ribono shel Oilams command not shave the beard and pais, (The Chofetz Chaim's words, not mine, Tiferes ha'adom -chap 2)to the extent that that they feel that only ultraorthodox have a beard and payos, completely oblivious that to the fact that this was the mode of dress of ALL Jews for millenia. In Yerushalmi or Europian picture from 100 years ago, Jewish women wore babushkas and dresses WITHOUT BELTS. There was a storm of protest when women started wearing belts because it showed off their shape. As to those single woman who write in their shidduch profiles "I dress Tznius but stylish" you haven't got a clue what the word means. But coming from people who thought the Chazon Ish lived in prehistoric times what do you expect. Go ahead, flame away! I'm wearing nomex.

7

 Feb 03, 2008 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

While I'm not in favour of changing minhogim in this way, especially since, in Islamic culture, the veil symbolizes not only tzenius but the subjugation of women, has ve'sholom, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the Rambam, Hilkhos Ishus 24:12:

ואיזו היא דת יהודית, הוא מנהג הצניעות שנהגו בנות ישראל, ואלו הן הדברים שאם עשת אחד מהן עברה על דת יהודית: יוצאה לשוק או למבוי מפולש וראשה פרוע ואין עליה רדיד ככל הנשים, אע"פ ששערה מכוסה במטפחת

A gloss on "רדיד" from the hagahot maymuniyot (note 6) confirms:

תרגום ירושלמי של צעיף רדיד

8

 Feb 03, 2008 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:

I am anon 8.50am from Friday. I have to add to what I wrote, because I realized that I left out a very important point. My family has done research, and in fact, my mom travels the world with a show that she produced called, Jewish Women thru the ages. This show depicts the way our nshim tzidkonius used to look in their day. It is basically done as an outreach program for Jewish Pride.
The research went anywhere from my father looking things up in holy seforim, to my mother going to Museaums anywhere that she could, to going to talk to old Yemenite men and women, it really ran the gamut of evey spectrum available. To my knowledge, NOT ONE OF THE noshim tzidkonius covered their face burka style. I have participated in some of these shows, and I can tell you that with the exception of Sarah Imeinu, not one of the Noshim tzidkonios had anything on their faces all together! Oh, and furthermore, if u ask me, aside from the burkas, these women look like shtetl ladies from Russia,,,,,, what comes to mind is one of yom tov erlichs songs, where he describes, an altichke froi aingeboigen,,, a tichel ariber di oigen! (dont attack me, I am not saying he said women dressed in burkas!!!! haha)

9

 Feb 03, 2008 at 03:01 AM Frimet Says:

I began noticing Yerushalayim women wearing dark, heavy shawls over their clothes back in August. So please, no attempts to rationalize this phenomenon as an honest attempt to fight our extreme cold spell.

I am pleased that others have also noticed and been disturbed by this trend but have not read among the comments the following: A normal, healthy woman has a desire to tend to her appearance. Anyone who is NOT distressed to parade herself around in a disheveled and repugnant manner is deemed ill by mental health professionals. These women are suffering from some mental ailment or other, whether it be depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, scrupulosity or whatever.
They are hiding their problems behind the handy "chumrah" veil, a common enough practice today.

It is incumbent upon respected rabbanim/poskim to voice their concern and counter this contagion.

10

 Feb 03, 2008 at 01:47 AM Anonymous Says:

im embarrased im considered chareidi, i rethinking my dress, this is insane...

11

 Feb 03, 2008 at 01:43 AM Anonymous Says:

insane...arent jews supposed to be inteligent, sophisticated, feminists.this is turning the clock 600 years...

12

 Feb 03, 2008 at 12:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
1) I too was taught that The Chazon Ish DID say women should not drive.

2) The Chason Ish was well alive until 1953, and though there were no Camrys, there certainly were Chevrolets and Fords and many other vehicles

3) Some of you attacked "Anon February 1, 2008 8:24 AM," But, I believe he was right.


February 2, 2008 11:11 PM

We took a survey and found that 92% of VIN readers do not support the attacks against Anon 8:24 any more than 99.99% of Muslims support suicide bombers.

13

 Feb 02, 2008 at 11:55 PM biGwheeel Says:

The Burqa, whether it's a Yiddishe or an arabic one, has no place in [normal] Jewish tradition. It says in the Torah; Deut. 31,-1 "You shall not do more nor less than these words". That means if a person does more than they're obligated to do, then, on other occasions they will do LESS.

14

 Feb 02, 2008 at 11:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
I too believe the majority of Islamic Arabs do NOT support the suicide bombings. They are embarrassed by them. All the ones that I have met are good people.

February 1, 2008 3:27 PM

Really?? You've met both of the muslims who do not support suicide bombings and they are nice guys? Wow!

15

 Feb 02, 2008 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:

I would not mind if my wife dressed like this.

16

 Feb 02, 2008 at 11:11 PM Anonymous Says:

1) I too was taught that The Chazon Ish DID say women should not drive.

2) The Chason Ish was well alive until 1953, and though there were no Camrys, there certainly were Chevrolets and Fords and many other vehicles

3) Some of you attacked "Anon February 1, 2008 8:24 AM," But, I believe he was right.

Notice how everyone on the Maikil side is attacking everyone who is even tolerant of a chumra.

The very hatred he talks about, is obvious right here. You all have proved his point.

17

 Feb 02, 2008 at 10:52 PM biGwheeel Says:

Anon. 7:59PM Like a normal couple. We didn't have ALL those Mishgass'n yet.

18

 Feb 02, 2008 at 09:05 PM Anonymous Says:

GOOD FAMILY VALUES? 80 percent of muslim famulies support suicide bombings (palestinian monitor watch) and educate their children into jihad which is one of the 3 ikkarim in Islam

19

 Feb 02, 2008 at 07:59 PM Anonymous Says:

I am still wondering what Moses and his wife looked like.

20

 Feb 02, 2008 at 07:02 PM Anonymous Says:

if you look at pictures of the bubbeis of our gedolim they dressed acording to halacha and even more.non of them had this goyishe contraption on another thing next maybe we should try trouser under skirts for women thats more tzniusdic.what about skirts over tousers for men like the scottish thats more proper to prevent any wandering eyes from the woman.enough of this mishagas lets not copy anything from those murderous jew hating people and their phony religion

21

 Feb 01, 2008 at 04:18 PM Shulamis Says:

No problem with this woman being dressed in such a way.

I would wear this if my husband would let me.

22

 Feb 01, 2008 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:

The Arabs copied OUR old levush. Does this mean we should not take it back.

If goyim start wearing black hats, does that mean we should stop?

If goyim started wearing long suit jackets. Does that mean we should be forbidden to ever return to our old ways of men wearing them?

The Burqa or Hijab is NOT a strictly Arab dress. Many Jews used to dress like that, just as the Arabs do. If we DESIRE to go back to wearing them, should we be forbidden to since the Arabs kept them?

Or, is the reality that those who do not want their women to dress like this do not want ANY of our women dressing like this?

We Jews certainly have no tolerance for each other. We all seem to want no one to "Look more frum" than we do. How sad that we have so much hate and desire to control.

If my wife wishes to dress with a hijab, I would be supportive.

Besides, I actually like it. You don't like it? Tough.

23

 Feb 01, 2008 at 03:27 PM Anonymous Says:

I too believe the majority of Islamic Arabs do NOT support the suicide bombings. They are embarrassed by them. All the ones that I have met are good people.

24

 Feb 01, 2008 at 12:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Anon 10:43 said- I also always wondered why a chicken is used and not another live animal. Perhaps, it was chosen for its non-use as a real karbon as a chicken is not brought on the mizbiach in the beis hamikdosh. Therefore, no one could mistake this practice as a substitute for a korbon.

If you look in the TUR, you will see that the original minhag started with larger animals.

25

 Feb 01, 2008 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:

When you imitate the goyim you become the goyim.

As a Bais Yakov student I can say that I was taught to dress attractive not attracting.

Wearing a Burqa is not attractive and is definitely a Shluchy(no english word for that:-)) Chillul Hashem!!! Hashem doesn't want us to dress like the Muslims. He gave us His guidelines and each of us understands the proper way to dress.
They say not to go to an extreme

Stick to the middle way!!!

26

 Feb 01, 2008 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Would a jew wear a nazi umiform? I don’t think so. What about a islamofacist uniform like the one in the picture?

27

 Feb 01, 2008 at 11:40 AM O.Gevald Says:

To Anon 9:45am;
Korach was also L'SHEM SHOMAYIM!!!
There is only one proof of L'shem Shomayim intentions. If it continues "L'Doros". Unfortunately, one cannot foresee the future. So we won't know now.
But one thing is certain, while adopting "Chumros" on ones self is commendable, forcing it on others is not. Even parents who want to be "mekabel" Hanhagos that they did not previously have, must consult a Posek before assuming that they are allowed to restrict their children from doing things which was not how their family was "Noheg" until now. These are sometimes taken for granted and parents are puzzled as to why their children rebel. At the end of the day, lucky is the person who can point to the Shulchan Aruch to answer those who quiz them on their customs.

28

 Feb 01, 2008 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Reb Yid said...
1. Maybe she's cold
2. At least it's not a chador
3. The point about BT's going overboard b/c they only learned unusual chumros or whatever is true, but may not be applicable here, as I'm not sure that the ones who are doing this are BT's

February 1, 2008 11:20 AM

Yeah, but they are so much fun to make fun of and its not like they are going to make any GOOD shiduchim anyway and G-d likes FFBs better because he knew our parents, so go ahead, mach choizek from well meaning but misguided people and don't mention thatit is a few of our fahrdorbener mentschen who are taking advantage of them.

Kiruv is BIG business today. There is an article about it today on 1010wins.com which none of us will see because we don't have internet.

29

 Feb 01, 2008 at 11:20 AM Reb Yid Says:

1. Maybe she's cold
2. At least it's not a chador
3. The point about BT's going overboard b/c they only learned unusual chumros or whatever is true, but may not be applicable here, as I'm not sure that the ones who are doing this are BT's

30

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Why a chicken?

What would you like people to twill over their heads? A cow?

31

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Anon 9:41,
As someone who does kapparos shluging, I am aware that throughout the generations there have been questions about the practice.
The rama warns that one should not look for a pure white chicken (male or female) as this is 'darkei emori'. If one has a white one already thats fine. The rambam also raised concerns about this minhag. He felt that it was darkei emori too, but since it seemed to come from previous doros he didn't stop it as he stopped other 'kariete' customs (in Egypt).

So we see that plenty of big gedolim had issues with the way kapparos is done using a live chicken.

I also always wondered why a chicken is used and not another live animal. Perhaps, it was chosen for its non-use as a real karbon as a chicken is not brought on the mizbiach in the beis hamikdosh. Therefore, no one could mistake this practice as a substitute for a korbon.

What do you think?

32

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:40 AM Anonymous Says:

(Again for your morons, I am not talking about the terrorists, or the Arabs who support them. Most do not.)

February 1, 2008 8:24 AM

YOU THINK THE MAJORITY OF ARABS DON'T SUPPORT THE SUICIDE BOMBINGS AND YOU HAVE THE CHUTZPAH TO CALL ANYONE ELSE A MORON???!!!

33

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
While not advocating for the burkas, I'm not sure if anyone's aware that while the arab woman do dress in burkas outside their home, while in the privacy of their homes, they do dress in the most provocative manner for their husbands only. THAT is definitely something that is unfortunately lacking by many of us who dress to kill outside the home and shlump around while in the house.

February 1, 2008 5:44 AM

How the heck do you know what is going on in everyone elses houses, even arabisheh?

I haven't the slightest idea what anyone elses wife wears even in the street! My wife gave up years ago on ever asking me 'did you see what so and so was wearing to shul?'.
You one of those perverts who hides remote cameras in other people's bedrooms?

34

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
what do you people think the religous women in israel wore before expensive european fancy wigs and american hats came along? they all wore the same middle eastern scarves "burkas" shawls etc.

look it up, look at early century photographs.
they arent exclusively arab. and not eclusive to jews from arab lands either.

or for better idea - take a look at your kids parsha drawings and tell me that all the women in the torah arent depicted like modern arabs???

February 1, 2008 1:47 AM

My great grandparents were yerushalmim and in the few family pictures we have none of them look like Mrs. Ahmedanajad.

35

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
anon 8:10...the chazon ish said women should not drive? really now, drive like what? a horse or a camel? or maybe they had Camrys in those days but the history books kept it secret.
reading this blog is the highlight of my day. didn't know there were so many intelligent people in our midst!

January 31, 2008 10:47 PM

Speaking of highlighting idiots: When do you think the chazon ish a"h lived?

36

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:23 AM Anonymous Says:

ATR said...
This Rebetzin or anyone who is over zealous at the expense of naive women should get the death penalty.

If this would have been required in Judaism the Chachmim in the time of the Gemara would have implemented this. Since they didn't stop making people miserable with over the top (no pun) nonsense.

January 31, 2008 10:39 PM

The death penalty?

And you think these people are "over zealous" and "over the top"???!!!

37

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:19 AM O.Gevald Says:

To Anon 8:50am;
Well said!
Thanks!

38

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Anonymous said...
Why don't we match these nuts with the Neturei Karta? Better yet, let them make their own secluded town somewhere in the desert so they can be left to their own devices.

January 31, 2008 10:03 PM

Great idea. Gaza is the first place comes to my mind.

39

 Feb 01, 2008 at 10:15 AM Ahmed Says:

Anonymous said...
Who is this so-called Rebetzin that these women are following? why is there no name publicized?

January 31, 2008 6:43 PM

Because under all that deli wrap no one knows who she is!

If your wife came up with this new chochmah, would you let her admit it publicly???

40

 Feb 01, 2008 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:

To all you Jew lovers,
First thing, I know a few of these woman personally, every thing they are doing is LESHEM SHAMAYIM. actually this has even gotten to NY, I personally know 2 woman who caught on and wear these head coverings in NY. I met one in shul on Shabbat. The Rebbetzin emphazises to only do it if the husband AGREES. In their homes, they dress as beautiful as they can, for their husbands only!
Think about it, don't you think we have gone too far, with our Blond wigs, extremely expensive "tznius" skirts, which look very good. Don't you think woman should start dressing for their husbands, not the neighbors and friends.
Just so you should know, there is nothing wrong if someone is more religiou then you. Many Sephardic woman, for hundreds of years wore similiar things.
One very important fact, Rabbanit Bracha Benezri of Bet shemesh, one of the woman who wear these shawls, was brought to Chacham Ovadia Yosef by her husband. The husband wanted it but said he was getting nasty remarks from their "religious neighbors". Chacham Ovadia said if the husband wants it, she should continue, and he gave her a blessing that she would be able to continue.

41

 Feb 01, 2008 at 09:41 AM Confused Says:

RE: b.a. mentch

Why do the Lithuanians have a problem with kapora shlugin?????

You were yourself soiser. You wrote, " Historians....". At the end of your post, you wrote that " Unfortunately (?) this doesn't usually last by them, and even if it does, it doesn't pass down to their children very long and is soon abandoned." So, what is it? Some of our current Minhagim are of Avoida Zora origin (& are still lasting or they dont last?????

42

 Feb 01, 2008 at 09:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Stuff like that just bring on more and more Zniss! Zie Nisht poipsticher Vee Der Poipst! Klall Yisrael has there own Oisgetroitenem Vehg Fin Alleh Doirois and we're doing just fine.

43

 Feb 01, 2008 at 09:24 AM Anonymous Says:

pre purim gear?

44

 Feb 01, 2008 at 08:50 AM Anonymous Says:

Note the words of HATRED:

Fanatical
Zealots
Crazy
Nuts

These are words of hatred. Not ahavas Yisroel!

45

 Feb 01, 2008 at 08:50 AM Anonymous Says:

You know, I was thinking, I remember learning in Historia class that the original mohammed decided he wanted to "better" yiddishkiet, by adding to it. And a nation of hatemongers ensued, when he saw that the yidden were not interested in fasting for 40 days vs our 5. He decided that he would take things to extreme to make yiddishkiet better.
LOOK WHAT HAPPENED.
I am inclined to agree that not every muslim is a terrorist. Not every person who parades around frum is necessarily Erlich.
BUT MAKING THE TORAH BETTER NEVER WORKED. Hashem did a good job. Its not for us to better it. When we walk in the streets dressed mentchlach, and act mentchlach we make a kiddush Hashem.
Someone here posted something about the community being a BT community, that dresses that way, I believe it. If there is no strong foundation to Yiddishkiet, then people will look to "BETTER" it. Der Beshefer zul unz uphitten. Why dont we all just worry about keeping the mitzvos the way chachomim inteded it, and leave the "Betterment" of yiddishkeit to the goyim. Before they decide that they can do that part of yiddishkeit more machmir than everyone else, maybe they should look to see that everything else by them is well learned, and well versed, and that their foundations of yiddishkiet are up to par.
Oh, and to the self hating jew, (if indeed you are jewish) anon 8.24am., just remember that you are being mekatreg thousands of ehrliche yidden for the few muslims that u know are nice.

46

 Feb 01, 2008 at 08:24 AM Anonymous Says:

1:47 is very right. It is not only an Arab dress, it used to be ours in many parts of the Jewish community.

Many of you have sooo much hate, and are so blinded by your politically correct point of view on Arab women that you are ignorant of the simple fact that:

The VAST majority of men, both Arab and Jew do NOT abuse their wives. Sure it does happen once in awhile, and it is bad and needs to be stopped. But the modest dress has nothing to do with the matter.

MANY if not the majority of Arab women LOVE the way they dress. They themselves WANT to dress that way. Oh sure, there are some who were poisoned by the Western culture which is shoving propaganda down their throats telling them to dress in revealing clothes the way we do. We are really good at that.... making people feel inferior if they do not behave (or misbehave ) the way we do.

When we misbehave and act like immoral people, we justify it, and tell everyone it is the way of "Free People" and that they should emulate us. Just like the drug pusher tells people to not miss out on the pleasures of heroin.

We, the Westerners, are similarly drug pushers, or rather, "Sluttines Pushers."

Our culture has deteriorated to such a low, that young teens are dressing like sluts. Deep down we are embarrassed by this and know it it wrong. But, the cat is out of the bag, and we Americans do not know how to catch it again. Then, we look at other cultures where they still dress normally and we feel bad, since we know we are out of control.

So, since we know we can't stop our sinning ways, we try to pull everyone else down with us.

This is the way it has always been.

We SHOULD learn from the Arabs.

Their women dress very modestly on the outside, and beautify themselves for their husbands.

And, despite the LIES told about their men by American press, their husbands cherish them. They have deep commitments to each other as well as to their kids. They have good family values.

I am not talking about the tiny majority who are terrorists. I am talking about the 90% or more. They are beautiful people. WE are the ones with the hatred and prejudice.

We are soooo quick to call anyone an antisemite if they say anything off color about a Jew or a Jewish custom. But we are the worse bigots I have ever met.

I have lived among the goyim for years. I have gotten to know many Islamic families. They knew me as a Frum Jewish man.

To be honest, I feel more hatred from non-frum Jews, then I ever felt from a Goy or from an Islamic Arab. I got to really see these people, and though I have no use for their religion/faith for myself, I do admire their moral, loving, respectful ways.

I wish more of our people were as kind, loving and gentle as they are. Their women are beautiful, lively, intelligent and HAPPY! ... just very modestly dressed. A good thing, not a bad thing.

The bigotry and hatred inside and among our people embarrasses me.
We hate everyone so much... we even hate each other.

The non frum hate the frum.
The modern Orthodox hate the black hatters.
The Lubvitchers hate the other Chassdim.
In fact, almost all non-chassidim seem to hate the Chassidim. .. as evidenced by so many anti-Chassidic postings here, and on other sites.

But we should not feel bad about being hates... these same people seem to hate everybody....

Maybe there is also a point: People who have chosen an "easier, softer way" of living, are jealous and hateful of those who have the courage to take the road of Torah, and do all they can to do Hashem's will, not according to minimum standards, but to the very best they can. We are jealous of that, and hate those people because them embarrass us, because deep down we know they are right.

We equally hate the Islamic Arabs, because we are jealous and see them behaving in ways that we know, deep down, is the way we should be have.

(Again for your morons, I am not talking about the terrorists, or the Arabs who support them. Most do not.)

47

 Feb 01, 2008 at 08:17 AM Anonymous Says:

This will help confuse a Busdriver or security guard at the Kosel or a store who will not know to be cautious for an Arab Jihadist woman with a bomb strapped on her or is it just a FANATICAL "REBITZEN"

48

 Feb 01, 2008 at 07:49 AM Anonymous Says:

frankly, I'm still not convinced this entire article isn't what it appears to be... I mean, assuming the photo isn't due to the cold weather snap in eretz yisroel, the women covering in the photo doesn't really look like "burqa" like material (realistically and conceptionally too) but rather just someone wrapping them selves up in a scarf/veil??? I'm not convinced that were dealing with the real "burqa" alert the news item is trying to convey!!!

49

 Feb 01, 2008 at 07:24 AM Anonymous Says:

I love it!!!! Bravo to these women for standing up to the zealots in Beit Shemesh with a bit of humor!

50

 Feb 01, 2008 at 05:44 AM Anonymous Says:

While not advocating for the burkas, I'm not sure if anyone's aware that while the arab woman do dress in burkas outside their home, while in the privacy of their homes, they do dress in the most provocative manner for their husbands only. THAT is definitely something that is unfortunately lacking by many of us who dress to kill outside the home and shlump around while in the house.

51

 Feb 01, 2008 at 05:03 AM Dan Says:

YOU'RE ALL MISSING THE POINT! The way Arabs dress may appear more tznius than us but... BURKAS ARE NOT ABOUT TZNIUS - THEY'RE ABOUT OPPRESSING WOMEN. THE SAME GOES FOR FORBIDDING WOMEN FROM DRIVING -OPPRESSION. The Arab world hates women, and uses their religion, as usual, to oppress and attack those they hate. The answer to the tznius problems in our community is not to mimic barbarians. Remember: It's mimicing other barbarians (e.g. Paris, France) that got us into this mess in the first place!

52

 Feb 01, 2008 at 03:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Why stop with women wearing burqas which cover Islamic women in them from head to toe? Let's see. How about building up to a burqa by first donning the hijab and niqab, then abayas to abeyah? Good for hiding bruises from husbands or male relatives instructed on how to keep women in line.

Burqa are especially fun to wear in the swealtering heat of summer especially when pregnant! How about the accompanying Islamic laws (shar'ia) which dictate woman cannot leave their house without an accompanying male relative? As for more than one wife - its about having servants and slaves in a hierarchic structure that does not permit escape or freedom. Even better, in a court of law women are considered only half a person and thereby guaranteed to lose!

The best adaptation is the one where girls get to eat their meals after their older or younger brothers have had their appetites saited. If the daughter has an apple and her brother wants that apple no matter how many others there may be - guess what - she has to relinguish that apple! He is getting trained as to who is the boss matters more in Islamic culture - and she that her life is one of reliquishment to men.

The distance between dress and a covering over the mind of women may only be a burqa away!

53

 Feb 01, 2008 at 01:47 AM Anonymous Says:

what do you people think the religous women in israel wore before expensive european fancy wigs and american hats came along? they all wore the same middle eastern scarves "burkas" shawls etc.

look it up, look at early century photographs.
they arent exclusively arab. and not eclusive to jews from arab lands either.

or for better idea - take a look at your kids parsha drawings and tell me that all the women in the torah arent depicted like modern arabs???

54

 Feb 01, 2008 at 12:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Maybe the shaitel store across from Chaim Berlin can sell these burkas instead of the shaitels.After All its not Bnai Brak but it could be Ramat Beit Shemesh.

55

 Jan 31, 2008 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:

anon 8:10...the chazon ish said women should not drive? really now, drive like what? a horse or a camel? or maybe they had Camrys in those days but the history books kept it secret.
reading this blog is the highlight of my day. didn't know there were so many intelligent people in our midst!

56

 Jan 31, 2008 at 10:39 PM ATR Says:

This Rebetzin or anyone who is over zealous at the expense of naive women should get the death penalty.

If this would have been required in Judaism the Chachmim in the time of the Gemara would have implemented this. Since they didn't stop making people miserable with over the top (no pun) nonsense.

57

 Jan 31, 2008 at 10:33 PM Anonymous Says:

are these people arabs or jewish?

58

 Jan 31, 2008 at 10:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Why don't we match these nuts with the Neturei Karta? Better yet, let them make their own secluded town somewhere in the desert so they can be left to their own devices.

59

 Jan 31, 2008 at 08:49 PM Anonymous Says:

funny thats what my bubbes in russia and poland wore! go figure.

60

 Jan 31, 2008 at 08:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Bravo! Bravo!

61

 Jan 31, 2008 at 08:27 PM Anonymous Says:

i now see that woman can be just as crazy as men when it comes to the most bizzare things. Being more covered with that does not make a woman more tznius!!! Being covered and dressed nicely (according to Halacha) as a Jewish woman is what it should be like and am sure that the Husbands would agree on this matter.

62

 Jan 31, 2008 at 08:26 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm apalled that any frum person would advocate us dressing like the Goyim. Don't you know that part of dressing Tniuzdik means that you should be able to tell a Jewish woman is Jewish from a block away. The same applies for a Jewish man. We have to be Kadosh, which means separate. Separate from whom? From the Goyim.
In how we dress, eat, sleep, talk, etc.

The only thing we can learn from the Goyim today, is how not to be like them.

63

 Jan 31, 2008 at 08:20 PM Anonymous Says:

now between me and you are thier men happy!??? NO WAY!!

64

 Jan 31, 2008 at 08:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Funny, but my daughter and I were walking through Target this afternoon, and we saw a few different Arab women. She commmented to me, "Daddy, I believe these women dress more tzniusdik than our own." ... hmmmmm She is not wrong.

Many of our minhagim were adopted not just to be copycats ... but to make sure the goyim were not more frum than we were.

ONE of the reasons behind the Chered D'Rabainu Gershom was that we were marrying two or more wives, while the XXXXXXians were being frumy frumies, and considering themselves religious while they considered us irreligious sex nuts who were not satisfied with one wife.

Actually, it was not a bad idea, after all.

Now, we have seen that our women are not dressing as modestly as some goyim. Is that not a wake up call that maybe we need to take heed and learn from them.

We can learn good things from all over. Is the Burka a bad thing? No way! We are just not used to it.

Keep in mind, that the Chareidi women of a few generations ago, were not out and about as they are today. Maybe we need to adopt a more modest dress code.

Many Chassidishe women do not drive. In fact, I think it was the Chazon Ish who said that women should not drive.

We have gotten more and more "modern" ... and don't want to "go backwards".

But, maybe taking a step backwards to increased modesty is a good thing.

I am not sure where I stand on the matter. I can think of a few counter arguments, but, what I wanted to say is: "Let's not just trash these people. Maybe they ARE right."

And... if you don't like it, don't live in their communities.

65

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:40 PM Anonymous Says:

this is winter attire for snowy weather, israel gets quite obsessed on most issues, for sure dressing for snow has sent the women to cover up from head to toe.

66

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

I dont if this new hanhaga will have legs (groan), but rest assured if the minhag finds its way to NY we will see the advent of $2000 Burka outfits for the epitome of Tznius.

67

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:21 PM Anonymous Says:

This will only add to the shidduch crisis!!

68

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:19 PM Anonymous Says:

IS THIS PART OF aL-QUADA BAIT SHEMESH?

69

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:18 PM Anonymous Says:

My friend made Aliyah to RBS this summer & warned me of this months ago. Can't remember if it's Aleph or Bet, but wherever it is, the natives are nuts!

70

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Is a burqa with a slit permitted?

71

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Mashiga! Tziedriet! Insane is an understatement.

Fech

72

 Jan 31, 2008 at 07:00 PM O.Gevald Says:

This is probably just a bad joke. Don't you get it? Eretz Yisrael is having an unusual WINTER SNOW and the women must have been cold!
In "The U.S. of A." women also bundle up to their eyes when it's freezing outside, that doesn't mean we all went to Coney Island Ave and bought "Sarif's"!!!

73

 Jan 31, 2008 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Who is this so-called Rebetzin that these women are following? why is there no name publicized?

74

 Jan 31, 2008 at 06:36 PM B.A. Mentsch Says:

If that's the so-called Burka this photo is showing, it is not similar to the arab Burkas which completely cover all of the head and face with nothing visible at all. They see out from a slightly lighter colored fabric, probably mesh-like materials.
In any case, this just goes to show again, that Yidden throughout the ages gave adopted customs of their places of residence but not necessarily in requirement of Halacha. Historians have always insisted that many customs (Minhagim) handed down the generations have actually been of Pagan origin (Avoda Zara!). The Mishna Berura quotes this regarding using live chickens for Kapporos etc.
This photo also reminds me of a study done 25-30 years ago in Israel by American writers (Frum, orthodox) who have maintained that the majority of those wearing the "Yerushalmi Levush" were none other than perfect English-speaking "Olim" and mostly Baalei Teshuva. Those who are well versed in the original Neturei Karta "die-hards" know that this is true as well. In other words, these are not your normal, run-of-the-mill people, but rather people who have NO "Mesorah" of their own and therefore easily jump from one extreme to another. Unfortunately (?) this doesn't usually last by them, and even if it does, it doesn't pass down to their children very long and is soon abandoned.

75

 Jan 31, 2008 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:

there is no such thing as a jewish burqua!! there are misguided jewish women wearing an arab burqua!!

76

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