Jerusalem – On the eve of Simhat Torah, the day when Jews traditionally dance with Torah scrolls, leaders for the Gur Hasidim have issued an edict banning adults from dancing with chidden on their shoulders, a common practice included in the holiday.
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HAARETZ.com (http://bit.ly/1hhErAG) is reporting that, while the official reason given for the ban cites “safety concerns” that children might possibly fall from adults’ shoulders and be injured, speculation is being fueled that the ban is a veiled acknowledgement of a more pressing social issue—child sex abuse within the community, and that children dancing on an adult’s shoulders might possibly trigger an “evil inclination” to abuse.
An unofficial source said the ban can be viewed as recognition that Gur Hasidic leadership is beginning to acknowledge that sexual abuse can happen within the community—something it has avoided for a long time, and that if the ban “sounds terrible from the outside, from within it is a sharp message to those who sexually abuse children, even if they are only a handful.”
Reaction to the ban has been tempered, but sources said some community members have expressed surprise that the act of dancing with a child on one’s shoulders would lead to sexual arousal.
What next? I know the Shul “candy man” is on his way out, if not gone already, but this latest psak is insane.
This is extreme and not even a real solution, just speaks to how unprepared the leaders are to deal with social challenges. Dancing with children does not cause “evil inclinations” in normal functioning adults. If the problem is so serious, they need to evaluate if too many social bans and rid git lifestyles are creating misfits.
Why do we trust anything Ha’aretz writes? The Ger dynasty has given us thousands of pages of Torah and yiras shamayim.
This story. This situation. This mentality. Not sure why, but I really need to vomit right now.
Ok. Someone’s help me with this! What does putting a child on your shoulders have anything to do with child molestation ?
Or how about actually addressing the real issue of abuse? Come out and say it exists and don’t hide behind the “a kid might fall” excuse. Find out who is abusing our kids and remove them from the community!!!
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.549824
Here’s the full article.
The source of this news is from Chaim Shaulzon’s controversial blog – so you gotta take it with a grain of salt…!
But nevertheless, whatever the reason behind it, I think it is a positive thing. (No illusions that Shaulzon is complimenting here..!)
Instead of banning a harmless and beautiful practice, they should have have psychiatrists/therapists treating all these sick people.
Thank G-d this Rebbe was born after his father and not before.
Why does everyone pick on the Polish, that they”re not smart, etc?
How about first closing the mikveh’s first that makes more sense that it might lead to sexual arousal …..
This should be implemented across the board, in every community, and every school.
Abuse doesn’t discriminate, apathy does!
In schools, both Frum and secular, it is considered inappropriate for a faculty member to touch a child more than is absolutely necessary. We live in a very lawsuit-friendly society, and it is definitely better to exercise caution when dealing with children.
empty cans making alot of noise
Why don’t they look at the real issues instead of nonsensical ones. Maybe they should say that only the fathers of children are allowed to hoist their own children on their shoulders and no one else.
This sounds like Haaretz imputing its own schmutz to the Gerrer. The takkanah makes perfect sense as a safety measure — a child can easily fall and get hurt, especially given the excitement (read pushing and shoving) of Simchas Torah. I doubt that those who started the issur had anything else in mind.
this is fantastic news. now these gur chasidim can rightfully claim they have done everything possible to stamp out child molestation and abuse.
no need to go any farther as the problem is now solved.
u dont believe that?? just ask them
we can all be proud.
I cannot believe what I am reading and what was written. Does this mean a father cannot change a diaper? Or give a bath? Can a mother give a bath then? Ribono Shel Olam who will wash the babies?
at least they have decent Niggunim
Doesn’t the gemara in first perek of Chagigah discuss fathers carrying children on their shoulders to be oleh regel?
what happened to the old refrain of perpetuating a “custom” in Israel and not letting anyone interfere with “our” understanding of tradition.
metizah bpeh as an analogous example.
Give me a break!!!!!
They have swept it under the carpet for years, and THIS will help??!!!!
גמרא כתובת י”ז
רב אחא מרכיב לה אכתפיה ומרקד
All of you are getting worked up over a blogger…!
Sometimes people are so caught up in their own culture of Judaism that they forget the real Judaism, and impose strictures and sanctions not dreamed of by our ancestors. Yet, it is the very same people who forward the notion that the ancients who authored the Talmud where all seeing and all knowing. How then do you explain the following: (Chagigah 2a)
הכל חייבין בראייה חוץ מחרש שוטה וקטן וטומטום ואנדרוגינוס ונשים ועבדים שאינם משוחררים החיגר והסומא והחולה והזקן ומי שאינו יכול לעלות ברגליו איזהו קטן כל שאינו יכול לרכוב על כתפיו של אביו ולעלות מירושלים להר הבית דברי בית שמאי ובית הלל אומרים כל שאינו יכול לאחוז בידו של אביו ולעלות מירושלים להר הבית שנאמר שלש רגלים
So the Mishna saw no problem with having a child ride on his father’s shoulders but these people do. ?
This is just another example of the whip trying to move its own harness again and again. They do not understand how Hashem and Torah works and they want to ram the idea of suffering up our futures by their stringent ways which are not Torah but only ignorance. Very unhappy to see this ignorance and the wicked prevail on this matter for now.
would anyone like to address the shikrus that takes place on Simchas Torah? where in Halacha is THAT brought down? Adults that drink themselves silly and make spectacles of themselves, not to mention their children is an even bigger problem. why should everyone’s Simchas Torah be sullied by drunks who have no idea why they’re drinking in the first place. They profess that they are being Mesamayach with the Torah: is the Torah being Mesamayach with them?
Why don’t they look at the real issues instead of nonsensical ones. Maybe they should say that only the fathers of children are allowed to hoist their own children on their shoulders and no one else.
I have to admit to first being shocked & even finding it ridiculous, but once hearing the reason I have to say kol hakavod & I only wish other Rabbi’s take a stand in their own way as well!
I’m speechless. Usually it’s the father of the kid that’s holding his child. Something so innocent give me a break. How about for Moshe emes??
Talk about missing the wood for the trees. These knee jerk reactions have been the typical response of the haredi world for years already. Their consistent refusal to even acknowledge the problem is now being followed by a similarly regressive strategy. Restrict and repress , impose ever more rules and regulations and hope that this round will be more effective than the last.
It is this writers humble opinion, that the over imposition of rules and regulations between the sexes, is for the large part a major factor in the perpetuation of the child abuse problem to begin with. We can either continue down the same road that helped get us here in the first place, or we can rethink restrategise and tackle the crux of the problem from the core up.The choice is clear but I’m not holding my breath…
We now know the skevers are crazy, now ger….what is more holy and beautiful then a father dancing with his child on simchas torah on his shoulders…there is no way a child can grow up normal in such a crazy radical ideas….oh vey!
I was recently in a frum hotel for succos. There was a smart boy whom I enjoyed talking to. I ended giving him a hug . My wife reminded me that we are living in a diferent world. What would have considerd a friendly gesture years ago today is suspect.
While I understand that this ban is probably true (although I’m not sure if it comes directly from the gerrer rebbe), the reason behind it is just guess work. One of the reasons flying around is because someone who doesnt have children told the rebbe that simchas torah is a very painful time for him because all fathers dance with their kids on their shoulders, others say its cuz of danger of kids falling and then there is the reason in this article, personally I dont know which is true but the reason quoted in this article makes the least sense to me so why accept it as fact? based on what?
I suppose merely being alive and conscious is irresponsible as it could arouse molestation or similar. Maybe adults may only go around in wheelchairs and strapped in!
Sorry, i don’t really think this is a genuine reason, unless it was ALWAYS not seen as the best thing.
I never felt comfortable up there as a child.
OK, so iphone i can understand.
Oh you know what?
I’m SURE this is not the reason. Although i can’t think what IS the reason. Can it be a danger of falling amongst all the pushing in Gur?
its very nice what the gerrers want to the suggest .one only needs to look in the KAF HACHAIM in the end of the halacos of succos where he writes that one shoud not give kids rides on shoulders