Kiryas Joel, NY – Grand Rebbe Issues New Wedding ‘Takanos’

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    Pinned Topic Feb. 15 2008

    Kiryas Joel, NY – A chief rabbi of the Satmar Hasidim has decreed new laws to cut down on the increasingly extravagant cost of weddings among Hasidic Jews.

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    Grand Rebbe Aaron Teitelbaum issued his new laws last month in a recording accessed by phone. More than 40,000 calls came in, many of them broadcast inside synagogues in the United States, Europe and Israel.

    Grand rebbe lays down the law on weddings.

    Engagement: Only light refreshments – soda and cookies – can be served at engagement parties.

    Gifts: No other gifts should be given except four pieces of jewelry: a watch, a pearl necklace, earrings and engagement ring with a cubic zirconia diamond for the bride; and the book of oral law, a Sabbath blessing cup and a menorah for the groom (in addition to the customary gift of prayer garments and accessories).

    The wedding banquet: The last grace should occur no later than 11 p.m., and the wedding shall end no later than 1:30 a.m. During the mitzvah dance, grandfathers should dance first, followed by all other male relatives together (and not individually) with the bride, then the father of the bride, then the father of the groom.

    Such decrees, known as "takanos," are embraced by Hasidic cultures that see them as effective means of addressing social ills, said Rachel Freier, a Hasidic attorney who works in Kiryas Joel. They usually follow grass-roots efforts to bring the problems of commoners to the clerical leadership's attention, she said.

    "It's, 'Tell us, we need limitations to help us avoid problems,' " Freier said.

    "What used to be affordable many years ago is now not," Freier said. She declined to estimate the cost of Hasidic weddings because of the range of family incomes, as well as to avoid embarrassment for her culture, she said.

    Kiryas Joel residents usually spend less on weddings than Hasidim living in Brooklyn, where Freier lives, she said. [Record]


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    45 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Diamonds can be sold CZ’s can’t

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    um, excuse me. but whomever said that a diamond ring can be problematic in the case of a broken shidduch, clearly needs to review their halachos. a kiddushin ring may not have a stone in it, because the kallah needs to know the value of the ring she is being given & this is clearly not possible with a stone, where the ring could be fake or cost millions of dollars. The marriage cannot be contingent on a ring that its value is in doubt.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    yidden, lets stop fighting over this issue we have more urgent issues to deal with. i suggest a compromise a. tone down the very expensive weddings a bit by the rebbe asking the baleibatim in person . the rebbe makes a smaller weddngs for his fammily and then uses the large shul for community danciNg the vast amount of monies spent can be used to build afternoon programs and centers for todays so called youth at risk. i have personally entertained as shabbos guest so many hungry-for-love kids who are looking for a more meaningfull jewish way of life and who have so much to offer.

    AM YISROEAL CHAI

    Milhouse
    Milhouse
    16 years ago

    Anon of Fri 1:41pm. Garbage. There is no such Medrash Rabbah. You just made it up. Rivkah got a nose-ring and two bracelets, but no ring at all, let alone a diamond ring.

    Anon Fri 2:39pm, none of your great-grandmothers got a diamond engagement ring. Nor did any of their friends, or anyone they knew. End of story.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    If it’s OK for the Kallah to wear a CZ ring then it should be OK for the Chosson to wear a Tallis without an Atarah, a cheap watch.

    What are all these people who work in the diamond district going to do when they’re not going to make a lot of parnassah because people will not be allowed to buy the real diamond?

    One need not be a Maiven to see the difference between a CZ & a real diamond. People DO KNOW the difference between the two.

    Kallahs like to show their engagement rings to their friends (that’s only if it’s a real diamond, that is). However if the Kallah receives a CZ instead, when her friends ask her to see the ring, she’ll feel humiliated, embarassed or not even wanting to show the ring. She may not want to wear it regularly or if she does it will be worn with disgust, and her feeling cheated.

    If the Chosson can get a Becher to make Kiddush, why is it that the Kallah doesn’t get a Lachter?

    What about the Kallah’s Machzorim, Tzenah U’Reanah, Siddur and of course, in leather, with it being personalized?

    Just wondering if the pearl necklace has to be simulated since the engagement ring has to be a CZ, or perhaps could it be real.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    After discussing this issue with quite a few people I have come to the conclusion that it’s the people who don’t have the money that must be like the Jones’s. If you feel that you can afford it, give your son the money – or even the diamond ring, etc. and he should give it to his wife for an occassion once they’re married. I have helped countless people marry off their kids on standards way beyond my own. Spending on things that were extra – Tu Bishvat gifts for the Kallah etc. Chanukah gifts for the siblings, fancy sweet tables at Aufruf, Sheva Brachos etc. Those are the people who are against these rules. They are getting the money from others anyways – they can’t deprive their kids. ..

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    We need takonos on the housing market.

    People paying 700.000 for a 3 bedroom house that also needs an addional 200.000 of work needs their head examined.

    We need takonos for this too nebach. And the same people overpaying for their homes cry about tuition! You had no problem overpaying a few hundred thousand for a house but you look for a bargain when it comes to education? Give us a break!

    The bottom line is that the frum community as a whole is out of control when it comes to spending.

    We ought to have money lessons like anything else we learn in life on how to spend and what is really important to have.

    There are needs and wants. Most of us are getting things we want for whatever reason and do not buy things we NEED.

    There is a BIG difference between WANTS (luxuries) and NEEDS.

    One more thing. Why does a teenager “need” a cell phone?

    This is another 1200.00 a year toy in the garbage.

    Anyone reading this blog can easily save 25,000 a year by cutting out unnecessary stuff.

    If you shopped around every few years for a different car insurance company you can probbaly save apx 1200.00 a year.

    Home owners another 600.00 a year compared to what you are paying now.

    By some of your food shopping when they are on SALE.

    For two months of the year cut out the ketchups, mustard, dressings and croutons and other garbage you will see an additional 200.00 in savings and you won’t die in the process.

    For the people with 6 cell phones on their belts cut it down to 3 and it will actually be cheaper to have 2 different providors instead of one providor with a “family plan”.

    There are many other ways of saving money during the year. Get creative and I will let others give more ideas.

    Yonason Shumaker

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Say what you want about the Satmer rebbe but he has more guts then you.

    Last week the Rebbe was invited to a chasunah in Boro Park. (will not mention the name of the hall)

    The Satmer rebbe was asked to speak to give divrei brocha and he first got up at 10:58 PM and 2 minutes later, out of no where he said “when I said 11:00 PM a chasunah should be OVER I menat OVER and period. And the Rebbe walked out of the hall and went home with his driver!

    So don’t tell us about “all” rebbes should tone it down. This topic is about the Satmer rebbe and he is practicing wha he preeches. If you stopped worrying about what others always do you would be better off. After 120 years go-d is not interested in what others did and what you dumb excuses are. YOU/I/ WE must do what is right. This is not a popularity contest or peer contest.

    DO WHAT IS RIGHT.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    The diamond engagement ring did not become the standard it is considered today until after an extensive marketing campaign by De Beers in the middle of the 20th century, which came to include one of the most famous advertising slogans of the 20th century: “A Diamond is Forever”.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    A diamond ring is actually a terrible investment. You can only sell it for about 1/3 of its true value.

    Been there …..

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    our great great grandparents got diamond rings and dont tell me they followed goyish minhagim. a diamond is forever and that what a kallah should get . leave out the pearls and watch and all other jewlery rather . those will change style with time but a diamond is a classy piece forever and its an investment worth for the couple if chas vasholom it comes to a point were they need money and dont have were to turn they have a diamond to sell which only goes up in value. and as for the rebbe making these takunas. he should look at his own weddings like everyone is saying before he tells everyone else what to do. i dont care if rich ppl are paying for his weddings . there money is also wasted. i guess when making chasana on other peoples chesbon doesnt feel so bad so they make these huge weddings while everyone else has to make cheap . maybe he should say they should make it in there apartments with only a minyan? get real ppl. we live in a world were you gotta set your priorities and if you cant you will also be crying that everything costs a fortune.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    In the last 15 years the REBBE and his family have spent close to 20 Million dollars on weddings……

    I wonder had he listened to his own Taknos how much of that money would have went to help poor Yungerleit to pay there bills so they wont need to take heart medicine there whole life for the 2 hours of dancing at a wedding with an old piece of chicken

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    People spend Money they haven’t earned, To buy things they don’t need, To impress people they don’t like!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    what an absurd cult this is. Are people so afraid to think on their own!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    before the rebbe makes takones let him go with a fake fur coat and fake silver cane than he could make takones !!!!!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Let the Rebbe & Rebbetzin start the Takanos first, I was at a graduation last june, and the Rebbes’s grandson kallah was one of the graduates. The Rebbetzin gave her a stunning diamond necklace! Is this also part of the Takonos?? Also I know that The Takonos is being discussed at other chasidus too!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    To Millhouse;
    The Medrash in Breishis Rabboh mentions Eliezer giving a diamond engagement ring to Rivka. In Rabbi Falk’s book on engagements, Natei Gavriel, as well as other seforim, other sources for this Minhag are discussed.

    Expatriate Owl
    Expatriate Owl
    16 years ago

    The reason that the last big “Simcha Guidelines” takanos went deep-six down is that so many exceptions were tolerated — including reputed exceptions on the part of the subscribing rabbis themselves.

    The first exception is like the first snowball: Once it is thrown, then everyone starts throwing them!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Apropos to the comment about the Gerrer Rebbe Ztzl takonos. Ever see Israeli Gerrer chasidim come to America to schnor money for chasunas? NO. Why? Cause they adhere to these takonos and don’t have to come here for money. And Ger has a Kupas Ezer Nusuin that provides help in making a chasuna within the boundaries of the takanos.

    Milhouse
    Milhouse
    16 years ago

    A diamond engagement ring is not only a goyisher minhag, but its specific history makes it completely inappropriate for yidden. If you look at the history of this custom you will find that it replaced the breach of promise suits that were being abolished in the 1920s and ’30s, and was intended to fulfill the same function. And that function was the opposite of tznius. It was a mashkon for the bride in case the groom broke off the engagement; and because she had this guarantee she could afford to allow things that no chassidishe kallah would allow, and no chassidisher chosson would ask.

    Turning it into a cheap CZ obviously removes that element – no kallah is going to allow such things for the sake of a $200 ring. But considering this origin, they should have just assered the whole thing. After the wedding, when they can afford it, they can buy all the jewellery she likes.

    (And that’s besides the question whether an engagement ring could be mistaken for kiddushin, and the shaylos that can cause if ch”v the shiduch is broken.)

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    With so many excited and optimistic people here how come the last 10 chasunahs I went to in the last 2 months I did not see 1 bit of a change?
    I have gone to 2 belzer chasunahs and not one bit different then the Average chasunah? where is everyone that is so excited about these new takunis?
    Where are all the belzer that are following what thier rebbe said?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    ah this is geshmack

    there is also such takonois in belz and by others

    but either way it great and all the comment forgot to mention tha today most people have to borrow or have askanim collect ofr them for the wedding and all

    the lesson we need to teach our children is to live within their means

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    THIS IS A WORLD WHERE EVERYONE WANTS TO BE CALLED NORMAL. NORMAL IS DETERMINED BY WHAT THE AVERAGE DO. PEOPLE WANT TO GET MARRIED AT A YOUNG AGE BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS LOOKING AT SOMEONE ELSE. WE ARE JUDGED BY OTHER’S AND OF COURSE BY OURSELVES. IF EVERYONE WILL START LOOKING UP TO PEOPLE WHO ARE KIND AND DO MORE CHESED INSTEAD OF HOW UP TO DATE THEY ARE, THEN WE WILL NOT HAVE PROBLEM’S WHERE PEOPLE SPEND MORE THEN THEY HAVE. THE PROBLEM IS NOT ONLY WITH WEDDINGS IT IS WITH EVERYTHING. WHAT IS YOURS IS YOURS WHAT BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE DOES NOT HAVE YOUR NAME ON IT. EVEN IF THE PERSON WILL NOT HAVE IT, YOU WILL NOT HAVE IT EITHER. FARGEN YENEM, BE HAPPY WITH WHAT HASHEM GAVE YOU. WE ARE HERE FOR A DIFFERENT REASON. DO NOT LET THE YETSER HARAH WIN AND TELL YOU WHAT IS IMPORTANT WHEN YOUR TIME ON THIS WORLD IS BEING WASTED FOR SILLY THINGS.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    The Satmar Rebbe said he is only talking to HIS chasidim. he was very specific about it. so why are some here upset at CZ or anything else.
    HIS chasidim are really really happy about it. accepting it with great pleasure.
    all other people should continue to pay and spend however their heart pleases. case is closed.
    the way I see it.
    the rebbe saved me from having my family and friends to collect money for me and my 5 kids.
    thank you rebbe

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Dear Rebbe
    My Daughter/Son is just as special as yours and because she/he wasnt born into yichus doesnt mean that she cant have the special day in her life.
    Until I dont see your chasunah go through with the tekonis then I wont allow my child to have that type of chasunah.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Its very true about the linen and other in house spending, but its very hard to control or know what ppl buy for there house, so there is no way of making takanos for that,

    At least it’s a good start, may h’ help he should succeed, for our good

    About him cutting on his own wedding spending, he is going to keep the takanos by his weddings as well (so I heard)

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Interesting that the current generation of rebbes have finally come to see that the Gerrer Rebbe Lev Simcha who made takonos for weddings, including the home not just the wedding, did that about 30 years ago. Wake up world.

    nat
    nat
    16 years ago

    You guys just don’t get it. You make it as if it’s a “isur” that the Rabbi is puting on us and we “nebech” have to listin. Actually that’s not the case, 95 percent of the chssidisha people wish and are demanding that those “Takanos” take an affect and are overjoyed that there rabbi is addressing it.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    I never got a diamond, my husband’s family couldn’t afford it. In those days there weren’t CZs, but a CZ in a nice setting sounds GREAT just now! Hmm…I think we may discuss this:)

    He was a much better “investment” than any diamond. We’ve made beautiful Chassunahs for our children B”H without bankrupting ourselves, just being sensible.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    “Wife like a diamond forever”
    so is a C.Z forever unless you lose it (& if you do you didn’t just flush $10,000 down the drain
    & you won’t get mad at your wife & the sholom bais can continue – you just replace it with a biggger C.Z
    🙂

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Anan 10:11 AM

    btw you’re NOT Satmar…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Anonymouse 9:04 you mention that gavirim pay for the chasunah. I have money to pay for all my kids chasunah and because I am satmar I have to abide to the new rules here. It does not mention anything about being able to afford or not. And yes I agree with the first anonymous let the rebbe first scale down his simchas and the others will follow.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    in the old time everyone bought a diamond you knew you wife was for life like the diamond. who needs pocketbook, fancy sheverbroches,fancy gift rapped tve’bshvat gifts etc.matching pots dishes the whole spiel, but a diamond was alway a starter.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    I love these Takanos…i wish i was satmar…i really love the the ring part….after my wife lost her $10,000 ring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sammy
    sammy
    16 years ago

    Actualy there are takonos for the band and couses and number of guests. It just wasnt all posted here

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Why did the Rebbe stop at setting times for the chossonah to end and the mitzvah tanz…He didn’t mention cost or size of musical band, courses of food, etc…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    A pearl necklace can be free, that’s a good idea.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Anon 9:21 Must be a diamond dealer – who else is interested in having sane (not rich)people spend thousands of dollars on a small piece of glittering rock (with flaws) that they hope they will never have to sell – when the same effect can be had for $200. It’s amazing that people fall for this scam.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    I am litvish, but I agree with the rules. I am not in the wedding parsha yet, but am looking to make a bar mitzvah soon. We are not looking to go fancy, but at the very minimum its going to cost 8-10 thousand!!! Please,,,somoeone set the tone to find way to save $$$$

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    yikes all of you are so right…… why is it that takanos have to be set… each person should do what they want for there child…. if someone is so out of it that they must do what the others even go into debt thats there problem……. the frum world has become a copy cat group

    Just Became "A Mchiten"
    Just Became "A Mchiten"
    16 years ago

    What’s the normal price for a wedding of my son, in Williamsburg these days, including everything.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    since our grandparents days kallahs got “diamond rings” not cubic zirconia. if we cut that out were is the chasivas of getting married. a diamond is an investment as all other things are just for that one week. cut out the fur coats kallahs are getting today and the chuson getting trips to lizensk and kallahs getting linen sets with a bunch of unnecessary presents and maybe then weddings will be more affordable. when i got married there was no such thing as kallahs getting pocketbooks and linen and weekday jewlery and these things that cost a fortune. pple and including the REBBE should get there things straight. diamonds should be real not fake when given to a kallah. its an investment for a life time.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    I was told when my daughter was getting married, that by Satmar, Bobov etc they get 7 (yes!!) sets of linen for their beds. It is apparently what “everyone” does. They looked at me like I was white trash when I said 2 sets are fine.

    So it’s not just the money for the actual Simcho, it’s the money spent on setting up the home. After being maried for 30 years we at last could buy a nice d/r set. There was a Kallah & her mother choosing custom furniture. The Kallah was maybe 18, didn’t have a clue, Mommy was choosing for her.

    posters 1 & 2 are so right…lead by EXAMPLE!!! But remember, these fancy weddings for 10,000 are paid for by a few gvirim, so that’s OK. It’s not like the REBBES get into debt like the rest of us, so it’s easy for them to lay down rules. They don’t follow them anyway.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    i agree %100 with the first comment. maybe they should start stopping the amount of money spend on robes. night gowns and linen as well. how about mixer and pots and pans……….

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    remember…..the buck stops here the rebbes are the one who spend lots of of monies renting out javit,floyd bennet let them be a model and do smaller weddings