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London - Eruv ‘Friends’ Go On Glossy PR Offensive

Published on: March 30, 2008 08:46 AM
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London - Supporters of the North-West London eruv have mounted an expensive public-relations exercise in a bid to demonstrate to local strictly Orthodox residents that it is usable.

4000 copies of an lavishly produced 160-page booklet have been delivered to Jewish homes in Hendon and Golders Green, containing endorsements for the eruv from across the Orthodox rabbinic world.
Although the North-West London eruv became operational five years ago, under the supervision of the London Beth Din, it has been consistently opposed by the rabbinate of the Union of Orthodox Hebrew Congregations, which questions its validity under Jewish law.

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The brochure appears in Hebrew and English and is packed with colour photographs of influential rabbis along with a pull-out map of the eruv zone. It describes the eruv as mehudar.

But the Union opponents are sticking to their rabbinic guns and say the eruv remains "of doubtful validity".
A public notice, newly issued by, among others, Rabbi Ephraim Padwa, head of the Union Beth Din, and its president, Rabbi Elchonon Halpern, warns: "It is our considered judgment… that as hitherto, carrying within the area of the eruv amounts to a chillul Shabbos and is forbidden, even in trying circumstances."

The brochure was sponsored by an anonymous group calling itself "Friends of the North-West London Eruv". [thejc]


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1

 Apr 22, 2008 at 05:03 AM NWLondonEruv Says:

"Anyway who are you to argue with Reb Eliyashiv, Reb Chaim Kanievsky Reb shimon eider zl Reb nissim karelitz to name just a few. For that matter who are the remaining 3 rabbis who oppose the eiruv to argue with the gedoilim of nowadays.
Get your facts clear and the speak!!"

i am sorry to inform you that that Reb Shimon Eider, the one who designed the whole eruv, said that the eruv HE designed would never get a haskomo from himself, after seeing the plans and the traffic and population density.

i am not sure what the blogger himself holds but the comments of some of you are just pure ameratzes!

2

 Mar 31, 2008 at 10:06 PM Anonymous Says:

"you can't pick and choose
the chazon ish is only when there is NO 600,000 in the city"

I am sorry I got into a debate with you. You have no idea what you are talking about. Of course the Chazon Ish is reffering to a situation of shishim ribo. Please stay out of this machlokas until you are educated.

3

 Mar 31, 2008 at 04:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Your right. That is what I have said many times to the anti eruv-group, if you were to follow any one posek (and not collect all the chumros from all the poskim) you would realize that an eruv would be allowed.

March 31, 2008 3:41 PM

So "KULEI BAIS SHAMAI AND KULEI BAIS HILLEL" ROSHOOOO????????
you can't pick and choose
the chazon ish is only when there is NO 600,000 in the city

ROSHOO don"t come with DOSON V'AVIROM tacts to have people carry on Shabos

4

 Mar 31, 2008 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:

"you can't take the kola of one poysik and the kola of another Poysik were they are Machmer in the other case and then call it Kosher"

Your right. That is what I have said many times to the anti eruv-group, if you were to follow any one posek (and not collect all the chumros from all the poskim) you would realize that an eruv would be allowed.

5

 Mar 31, 2008 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:

you can't take the kola of one poysik and the kola of another Poysik were they are Machmer in the other case and then call it Kosher

6

 Mar 31, 2008 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

"The "Eruv" camp is led by Rabbi Henry Ehrentreu"

This is one of the greatest rabonim around today and whatever your view is you have no right to be distrespectfull!!

7

 Mar 31, 2008 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Yeshiva Bachur - You are incorrect, most Reshonim maintain that we can rely on shishim ribo. Besides, when we are talking about a situation of mechitzos it makes no difference if there is shishim ribo contained therein the area is classified as a reshus hayachid.

8

 Mar 31, 2008 at 06:11 AM Itzhak Schier Says:

The "Eruv" camp is led by Rabbi Henry Ehrentreu who used to head the centerist London Beis Din,
--------------------------
His correct name and title: Dayan Chanoch Ehrentreu. You do not have to agree with him and I most certainly do not, but he is a talmid chochom who has done a lot for the community as a whole in the UK and beyond.

9

 Mar 31, 2008 at 05:34 AM Anonymous Says:

all this seems very interesting as the anti eruv camp seem whom claim to be the "frum ones" are actually the ones hurling abuse and calling other rabbonim names (i.e. Harav Chanoich Ehrentreu they call Henry)
If the London Beis Din is not to be relyed upon then why are they the ones to authorise the ingredients for most products produced under Keddasia !!!

10

 Mar 31, 2008 at 03:06 AM Yeshiva Bachur Says:

Milhouse said...
To those who claim you can't build an eruv of mechitzos in a Reshus Horabim: In that case, how can you carry in your own home? In what way are the walls of your house better than the walls of the London eruv, or those of the new Flatbush eruv?

As i am only-as my screen name states-a yeshiva bachur i do not claim to know all halachick matters.But i wiil ofer a quick introduction for beginners:
Mideoraiso there are two kinds of resusim: Reshus harabim and reshus hayochid. The rabbanan were mesaken a third kind of reshus called a carmelis.
there are halachic definitions for each of these resusim:
there is a machlokes as to what exactly constitutes a Reshus HaRabim. Rov Rishonim pasken that a street that is wider then 16 Amos is a reshus harabim. there is one shitah in the rishonim on which kimat all eruvin are based. This shitah is that if a city has more then 600000 inhabitants it is a reshus harabim.
A carmalis is an area that does not fit the defonitions of either a reshus hayochid or a reshus harabim

11

 Mar 31, 2008 at 03:01 AM A former Londoner Says:

I saw with my own eyes a letter written by Rav Lichtenstein of the Federation to his congregants - who might be said to be somewhere in between the warring parties (both theologically and physically) - saying something to the effect that "we do not carry in the eiruv, but we also do not criticise those who do". That sounds like the sort of attitude I can identify with, but there are may these days who feel that kana'ut is the only genuine frum attitude to anything, and that anyone who is not a kana'i is somehow less authentic.

12

 Mar 30, 2008 at 08:41 PM Anonymous Says:

The oilam in golders green is fed up already, the bneitoirah and the chassidishe yiden will never carry as long as kedassia consider it a chilul shabbos, so why force it upon them. The achdus between Rabbonim is ok Rav Halpern And Dayan Gelley were seen chating together at a simcha last week, if only the Baalei Batim would mind their own business and not throw around their money muscle, things would be much calmer and lives could be saved.

13

 Mar 30, 2008 at 08:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Toronto has an kosher eiruv where some people chose not to carry but everybody agrees that it is kosher.
Yet we have 5 million people in the metropolitan area. It can be done

14

 Mar 30, 2008 at 07:51 PM Milhouse Says:

To those who claim you can't build an eruv of mechitzos in a Reshus Horabim: In that case, how can you carry in your own home? In what way are the walls of your house better than the walls of the London eruv, or those of the new Flatbush eruv?

15

 Mar 30, 2008 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:

To 3:55pm

please refer to the earlier qute if there are mechitzas mamesh till the reshus harabbim i.e. london then according to the chazon ish as well as others you can overcome a reshus harabim with a tzuras hapesach.

16

 Mar 30, 2008 at 03:58 PM Anonymous Says:

The chazon ish is relied upon in practically every town in the world today. His issurim which you misquoted were in those days. If you wish to apply his issur today youcannot carry anywhere.

So "KULEI BAIS SHAMAI AND KULEI BAIS HILLEL" ROSHOOOO????????
you can't pick and choose
the chazon ish is only when there is NO 600,000 in the city

17

 Mar 30, 2008 at 03:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Statistcally the area encirclled does not have 600,000 even with the north circular included according to ALL government statistics. And even if you are worried one goes according to the amount of cars passing by in the area which definately does not exceed that.

how are you cutting the RESHUS HARABEM with a Tzuras Hapesach??????????
You Can't

18

 Mar 30, 2008 at 03:46 PM Chaim Yankel of Golders Green Says:

Chilul Shabbos D'oiraysoh - that is what this is all about. Not this Rav or that Rav or this kulo or that chumra. CHILUL SHABBOS D'OIRAYSOH.

19

 Mar 30, 2008 at 03:30 PM Anonymous Says:

This is what Rav Shmuel Orbach said: I feel obligated to publicise my opinion with regard to the "Eruv" concerened. All those who have the fearof Hashem in their heart should be extremely careful not to carry on the holiest of days, "Shabbos", and should not involve themselves in any way in a severe sofek of "Chilul Shabbos D'oiraysoh Chas Vesholom". Please dear brothers especially and in particular those of you who have been careful not to carry on "Shabbos" until now, continue in this way and do not involve yourselves in "Sefeikos" concerning the keeping of the holy day of "Shabbos". Since a letter has been publicised with my signature without my consent and against my wishes AND REQUEST, I find it imperative to publicize this matter in honor of "Shabbos". You don't have to be super intelligent to understand that. DO NOT INVOLVE YOURSELVES IN SEFEIKOS - if the eruv was kosher let alone mehudar there would not be any sefeikos. If I publish something agaist someone's wishes and request, seems that is the definition of doing it dishonestly. What am I, an admittedly non intelligent being, missing?

20

 Mar 30, 2008 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Is the book published in London available anywhere on line? Anonymous at 2:55PM says the Posek HaDor Maran Rav Eliashiv Shlita says it is ossur but I heard that the book has a letter from Rav Eliashiv supporting the eruv. They can't both be right.

21

 Mar 30, 2008 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Statistcally the area encirclled does not have 600,000 even with the north circular included according to ALL government statistics. And even if you are worried one goes according to the amount of cars passing by in the area which definately does not exceed that.
The chazon ish is relied upon in practically every town in the world today. His issurim which you misquoted were in those days. If you wish to apply his issur today youcannot carry anywhere even where your so called "undisputed 3 rabbis" permit even in yerushalyim.
So that answres all your misconceptions about trhe london eiruv.
Regarding R Shmuel auerbach obviously the writer is not intelligent enough to realize after reading both letters that nothing was put up dishonestly and neither did he retract from his previous letter.
As to somone who is dishonest and retracking letters... which rav had the original idea for an eiruv then banned it when someone else brought it out, then put up a letter in his shul claiming he never said it was chillul shabbos after being threatened by Rav lefkowitz, Rav Kanievsky and Rav Karelitz, then after another week took down his letter and retracted again. i think he is the one who has to be questioned. Please ask Your Rabbi R Chuna what and who he is playing with!

22

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Rav Eliyashev holds it is assur. The Steipler Goan writes to R' menashe Klein that the only heter is when there is NO 600,000 inhabitants but with the MICHIZOHS the "Mishknas Yakov" is correct that it is NO good. Reb Nissim Karelitz also says when there is 600,000 inhabitants you can NOT make a Tzuras hapesach.

23

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:50 PM Anonymous Says:

the chzon ish held enybody carring in the small town of Bnei Brak i Michallel Shabos. the Chazon Ish writes a limud zchus on what the "MISNAH BRURAH" the posek of our generation held, you are NOT to use the eruvin from the small cities but never will the Chazon Ish permit to carry in london.

24

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Please keep it civil with no name callings

25

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:15 PM Anonymous Says:

as to the person who called me a am haaretz I think you shouldnt start expressing your ignorance on line. If there are mechitzas mammesh till the reshus harrabim then accordind to the chazon ish and reb akiva eiger you can cancel out the reshus harabim with a tzuras hapessach over it. The london eiruv has all mechitzas mammesh the whole way through the eiruv.

Anyway who are you to argue with Reb Eliyashiv, Reb Chaim Kanievsky Reb shimon eider zl Reb nissim karelitz to name just a few. For that matter who are the remaining 3 rabbis who oppose the eiruv to argue with the gedoilim of nowadays.
Get your facts clear and the speak!!

26

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:14 PM Mendy Says:

Not sinas chinam, kovod Shabbos koidesh

27

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Rabbi Henry Ehrentreu is not the Mara d'Asra of London and never was. He was the head of the Beit Din of the modern mainstream nominally orthodox community in London. Golders Green is a haredi community that does not accept his kulos or need his toivos. London has a Mara d'Asra in HaGaon Rebi Efraim Padwa who says one cannot rely on Henry's eruv. The undisputed Rov of the chassidishe olam in that part of town, Reb Chuna Shlita says the same. The Rov of the Adass in Hendon, HaGaon Rav Pinchos Roberts and the recently retired Rov of the Yeckishe Kehilla Munks, HaGaon Rav Chaim Feldman also say the 'eruv' cannot be relied on. Are you really going to rely on Rabbi Ehrentreu, the same Rabbi Ehrentreu who went voluntarily to the High Court to give testimony against the Av Beis Din of another Beis Din in London. Incidentally, Rabbi Ehrentreu's friend lost after the English High Court Judge found against him. Clearly the evidence and witnesses he brought were not that convincing. The Rosh Yeshiva HaGaon Rav Shmuel Orbach has already said that the 'Eruv' camp have used a letter from him without his consent and against his wishes. Is this ehrlichkeit?

28

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:08 PM Anonymous Says:

eruv rav = those who oppose the halocha of Shlomo Hamelech

29

 Mar 30, 2008 at 02:06 PM Anonymous Says:

amazing how the "eruv rav" as they call themselves put up an eruv in the woodlands which is a cul-de-sac and still managed to get it wrong, so who are they to give a psak over the whole of nw-london?
and for the person worried that im a carrier, at least i dont have to carry there sinas chinom with me.

30

 Mar 30, 2008 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:

As to the Minchas yitzchaks psak that was refering to the whole London not to a small part where the eruv actually is.
As for the bashing of hagoon rav chanoch ehrentreu shlita the mora daasra of london, it just seems to be that... "rabbi" Moshe Halpern blogs on this web site. Any way the vast majority of rabonnim in London already hold the eruv is kosher. Anyone apolitical and honest who can learn has already come to the same conclusion.
We are just remaining three get honest!

March 30, 2008 1:44 PM

"AM ARETZ" PART OF A RESHUS HARABIM YOU CAN NOT MAKE AN ERUV
WAKE UP AN GET REALATY

31

 Mar 30, 2008 at 01:44 PM Anonymous Says:

As to the Minchas yitzchaks psak that was refering to the whole London not to a small part where the eruv actually is.
As for the bashing of hagoon rav chanoch ehrentreu shlita the mora daasra of london, it just seems to be that... "rabbi" Moshe Halpern blogs on this web site. Any way the vast majority of rabonnim in London already hold the eruv is kosher. Anyone apolitical and honest who can learn has already come to the same conclusion.
We are just remaining three get honest!

32

 Mar 30, 2008 at 01:33 PM Anonymous Says:

as a chasidisher yurgerman living in NW-London and using the eruv i can only say the those knocking it have after 5 years still not given a pesak as to why it may not be used. they have only succeeded in cursing people who either use it or open our much needed new mosdus hatorah.
i don't belive any rov would disagree to this!

THE MINCHAS YITZCHOK paskened in a tsuvah vol 2:114 that london is a RESHUS HARABIM according to ALL. IS THAT A PSAK????????????

33

 Mar 30, 2008 at 01:30 PM Anonymous Says:

FACTS: Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Chicago, 5 towns, Monsey, Bergenfield, Passaic, LA have eruvim that many residents of the kehillos use and there is SHOLOM VESHALVA, could be that the communities that you mentioned have 'shalom issues' of "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY", kanoim velt....
March 30, 2008 1:00 PM
you bring small towns LA< CHICAGO ARE BIG cities and HAS BIG MACHLOKES.

34

 Mar 30, 2008 at 01:22 PM Mendy Says:

Chassidishe yungerman who acrries on Shabbos: I hope you change your mind before your children get to shidduchim. You know the first question that is asked these days about potential mechutonim is whether they are carriers! Seriosuly though, why make an eruv if it is going to create such machlokes?

35

 Mar 30, 2008 at 01:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Facto: in every city where they put up an eruv, it brought a large split and sinas chinom between us, may it be Boro Park, Williamsburg, Golders Green, and so on, it only sparked sinas chinom and hatred between friends and family.
So if this is the result, who needs it? if it only brings machlokes and the opposite of Sholom veshalva, then the heck with it!
FACTS: Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Chicago, 5 towns, Monsey, Bergenfield, Passaic, LA have eruvim that many residents of the kehillos use and there is SHOLOM VESHALVA, could be that the communities that you mentioned have 'shalom issues' of "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY", kanoim velt....

36

 Mar 30, 2008 at 12:40 PM Anonymous Says:

as a chasidisher yurgerman living in NW-London and using the eruv i can only say the those knocking it have after 5 years still not given a pesak as to why it may not be used. they have only succeeded in cursing people who either use it or open our much needed new mosdus hatorah.
i don't belive any rov would disagree to this!

37

 Mar 30, 2008 at 12:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Strange, the Eruvin were supposed to bring comfort and ahavas yisroel, is resulting in just the opposite.
Facto: in every city where they put up an eruv, it brought a large split and sinas chinom between us, may it be Boro Park, Williamsburg, Golders Green, and so on, it only sparked sinas chinom and hatred between friends and family.
So if this is the result, who needs it?
if it only brings machlokes and the opposite of Sholom veshalva, then the heck with it!

38

 Mar 30, 2008 at 11:40 AM Anonymous Says:

At March 30, 2008 10:17 AM , Anonymous:
“Usually the arguments are between different haredi or chassidishe camps. However in London that is not the case. The "Eruv" camp is led by Rabbi Henry Ehrentreu who used to head the centerist London Beis Din, the same Beis Din that gives hechsherim to Chalav Akum products. The "Keep Shabbos K'hilchosa" group has the backing of the Rov of London HaRav Ephraim Padwa Shlita, the Morei D'Asra in North West London, the venerated Rav Reb Chuna Shlita and the other Haredi Rabbonim. The "eruv" covers a smallish area in North West London where the modernere live. Hameivin yovin!”

I think it’s comical that you list one of Rav Ehrentreu shlita’s kulos as being chalav akum (this is incorrect it’s not chalav akum only chalav hacompanies) while it was Rav Moshe zt”l who objected to the Manhattan eruv and was the main posek to be meikil regarding this matter. Those objecting to eruvin use halachah as a smokescreen for being machmir, while in truth the issue is mi b’rosh.

39

 Mar 30, 2008 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:

I think people should stop this sinas chinom.
We have enough problems as it is.
Those who want to carry let them carry those who dont want to carry dont have to.

40

 Mar 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Actually it is the revered Dayan Chanoch Ehrentreu who created the eruv and it covers the same area that R' Elchonon Halpern (Reb 'Chuna') lives & davens - who has since denied he has ever said that someone who carried in the eruv is a mechalel Shabbos.

41

 Mar 30, 2008 at 10:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Is the brochure available online?

42

 Mar 30, 2008 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Usually the arguments are between different haredi or chassidishe camps. However in London that is not the case. The "Eruv" camp is led by Rabbi Henry Ehrentreu who used to head the centerist London Beis Din, the same Beis Din that gives hechsherim to Chalav Akum products. The "Keep Shabbos K'hilchosa" group has the backing of the Rov of London HaRav Ephraim Padwa Shlita, the Morei D'Asra in North West London, the venerated Rav Reb Chuna Shlita and the other Haredi Rabbonim. The "eruv" covers a smallish area in North West London where the modernere live. Hameivin yovin!

43

 Mar 30, 2008 at 09:23 AM Anonymous Says:

in boro park it used to be that all people greeted each other "gut shabbos",
since the eiruv it changed a lot, sometimes you even get a "mechalelehu mos yimus",

44

 Mar 30, 2008 at 09:14 AM Anonymous Says:

There will be forever, till the arrival of Moshiacha difference of opinions re: ERUVIM. If it works for you, use it, if it DOES NOT work for you, do not use it, just make sure to wish each other with a smile on SHabbat Kodesh.

45

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