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New York - Rockland County Executive Takes To Facebook; Says Kolel Money Is "Off The Books" Income And A Scam

Published on: April 7, 2014 10:28 AM
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Rockland County Executive Ed DayRockland County Executive Ed Day

Rockland County, NY - Following a decision last week in which a State Administrative Judge ruled that child care payments be reinstated to three families associated with a Kolel in Kaser, Rockland County Executive Ed Day took to Facebook on Sunday, posting that the Kolel money is “off the books income” and a “multi-million dollar scam” which he intends to bust wide open.

The Rockland County Department of Social Services filed an immediate appeal following the ruling, asking that a different judge hear the case.

On Sunday, Ed Day posted to Facebook (http://on.fb.me/1gDdd6Q ) the following message, 

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“Just so all in this County are crystal clear. The County Department of Social Services is challenging this absurd decision by an administrative judge at my specific direction.

This is off the books “income” at best and this abuse keeps 381 families with an estimated 700 children seeking child care deserving families, mostly in communities of color, from receiving needed aid.

This is a multi-million dollar scam as many of the families — including the three that challenged losing child care subsidy — also receive Medicaid, Food Stamps and heating allowances. Some families have unbelievably been receiving child care for 20 to 30 years, effectively shutting out other families from the aid.

I will leave no stone unturned until this misappropriation of your tax dollars is stopped.”



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Read Comments (60)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 07, 2014 at 10:34 AM Ex Kollel guy Says:

Well whats the law regarding students recieving stipends from there unversities?

2

 Apr 07, 2014 at 10:40 AM Anonymous Says:

When i was in Kollel, i got a regular W2 form etc, was considered an employee - Kollel is as much a job as being a baseball player, an actor, a monk, a nun, or... a politician

3

 Apr 07, 2014 at 10:40 AM SERIOUS Says:

רבותי עס איז צייט איינצוזעהן די שיינקייט פון א נהנה מיגיע כפו

4

 Apr 07, 2014 at 10:44 AM UseYourHead Says:

Fraud is fraud. Anyone who believes that fraud is OK has never studied the Torah.

5

 Apr 07, 2014 at 10:56 AM BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Ask this soneh Yisrael why Jewish children are any different than "children of color" What is the scam he is talking about?

6

 Apr 07, 2014 at 10:58 AM doc Says:

Sounds like this Mr. Ed is who needs to be stopped.
I don't understand- only poor people of 'color' are allowed to receive aid?

7

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:

The idea of him trying to create a war bettween Jews and color people, tell us alot about this low life

8

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:05 AM Avi Says:

Reply to #5  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Ask this soneh Yisrael why Jewish children are any different than "children of color" What is the scam he is talking about?

You are a Soneh Hashem if you think this man is a Soneh Yisroel just because he has a better sense of ethics than you.

Tax evasion is illegal, as well as against Halachah.

9

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:17 AM UseYourHead Says:

Reply to #8  
Avi Says:

You are a Soneh Hashem if you think this man is a Soneh Yisroel just because he has a better sense of ethics than you.

Tax evasion is illegal, as well as against Halachah.

Thank you Avi. It's good to see that some people haven't lost touch with true Torah values.

10

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Ask this soneh Yisrael why Jewish children are any different than "children of color" What is the scam he is talking about?

Read the article! Do the research. There are families sitting and not working, collecting $75,000 a year in government benefits for 20-30 years, while "families" of color are working three jobs, struggling to stay afloat and cannot afford child care, because these families are using up the limited funds, while they sit and shtieg all day long.

11

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:34 AM Phineas Says:

I don't understand what the scam is. The kollel men aren't misrepresenting what they are doing. Maybe there just has to be a cap as to how long you can stay in the program.

12

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:42 AM Benny Says:

"This is a multi-million dollar scam as many of the families — including the three that challenged losing child care subsidy — also receive Medicaid, Food Stamps and heating allowances. Some families have unbelievably been receiving child care for 20 to 30 years, effectively shutting out other families from the aid.
I will leave no stone unturned until this misappropriation of your tax dollars is stopped.”

And when the politicians run their election campaigns with tax free money, misusing donation money that can REALLY help people in need, this is the REAL multi-million dollar scam!
When they misuse people's money while being in office - is a multi-million dollar scam!
All of us should look at them, keep an eye on them, google about them, their trips, their fancy offices, their many secretaries, drivers, "stuff", to see if they really need all of it at OUR expense.
And not those poor youngerlite from the kollel.

13

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:49 AM Benny Says:

Reply to #8  
Avi Says:

You are a Soneh Hashem if you think this man is a Soneh Yisroel just because he has a better sense of ethics than you.

Tax evasion is illegal, as well as against Halachah.

You are the real Soneh Hashem and idiot, if you think this man is a Ohev Yisroel just because he has the same sense of ethics as you.

Tax evasion is illegal, but tax benefits are legal, all goverment programs are lrgal, as well as according to Halachah, as long as you follow the rules.

14

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:49 AM LEEAVE Says:

not the first time antisemitic like him go public,
he will have his mapulah just as human

15

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:54 AM Anonymous Says:

The kollel students are entitled to Fellowships, which is only subject to income tax and not to SE tax. They can also receive payments in form of parsonage, which is subject to SE tax only, and not to income tax.

16

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Avi Says:

You are a Soneh Hashem if you think this man is a Soneh Yisroel just because he has a better sense of ethics than you.

Tax evasion is illegal, as well as against Halachah.

It's not tax evasion, chochom, its a stipend & its not taxed. Just like those who do research & get stipends. He definitely is a sonai yisroel if he wants to differentiate between their researchers & ours.

17

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:31 PM bubii Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

When i was in Kollel, i got a regular W2 form etc, was considered an employee - Kollel is as much a job as being a baseball player, an actor, a monk, a nun, or... a politician

I guess if you count producing hot air as a job, then you are right.

18

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:35 PM CPA Says:

Reply to #1  
Ex Kollel guy Says:

Well whats the law regarding students recieving stipends from there unversities?

The law is a fellowship or scholarship is excluded from income if it meets specific criteria, none of which kollel pay meets, such as attainment of a degree from that institution (any kollel obviously fails this test alone, and there are others). Kollel money is 100% taxable income- whoever does not report is committing fraud.

19

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:41 PM FBF37 Says:

And so it begins....

Here is a thought. If we believe in Hashem, why when Hashem sends us messages about the kollel system (like in Israel and now possibly in Rockland County) do we conveniently ignore it?

20

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:48 PM Mark Levin Says:

He is starting with the wronnnnnnng people. I wonder how he plans on spending his retirement?

21

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Ex Kollel guy Says:

Well whats the law regarding students recieving stipends from there unversities?

You can't get Medicaid, food stamps or many other government "entitlement" programs if you are in school full time.

22

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:51 PM Ex kollel Guy Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

When i was in Kollel, i got a regular W2 form etc, was considered an employee - Kollel is as much a job as being a baseball player, an actor, a monk, a nun, or... a politician

I respectfully disagree. While in kollel you are simply student studying in a unversity. You are not preaching or "working". I believe college stipends are not considered taxable wages.
While I get the mussar part. All those learning should take kollel as serious as a job. But from a legal stand point I think you are mistaken.

23

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Avi Says:

You are a Soneh Hashem if you think this man is a Soneh Yisroel just because he has a better sense of ethics than you.

Tax evasion is illegal, as well as against Halachah.

That judge ruled its not tax evasion. Thus its not illegal or agianst halacha. Sorry this guy is on a witch hunt.

24

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Ask this soneh Yisrael why Jewish children are any different than "children of color" What is the scam he is talking about?

It's not that one group of kids are more or less deserving. But these Kollel families are working but not "on the books", so that is the scam. Other frum families might be receiving the newly available aid. Just ones that aren't taking money in under the table and expecting money from all these state welfare programs.

25

 Apr 07, 2014 at 12:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

The idea of him trying to create a war bettween Jews and color people, tell us alot about this low life

No war is trying to be created. You just can't see welfare fraud and tax evasion when it's so clear before you.

26

 Apr 07, 2014 at 01:04 PM LionofZion Says:

If you want to spend 20 years in Kolel, you should be asking your Shver for support, not your uncle Sam.

27

 Apr 07, 2014 at 01:05 PM Monseyer Says:

What chutzpah! Where's the injustice of our sky high tax dollars going to support children of color in the public school system which none of our children attend, to say nothing of Jewish religious residents who have raised their children and are trying to get by without having to work their butts off to meet the outrageous taxes that support the "mostly communities of color"?

28

 Apr 07, 2014 at 01:32 PM Deveee Says:

Now I understand why Monsey voted against him.

29

 Apr 07, 2014 at 01:37 PM Lawyer Says:

To # 4 and # 8 --

What is involved here is neither fraud nor tax evasion. AFAIK, the people involved did not hide the fact that they received kollel stipends. The issue, rather, is a legal one -- do such stipends count as income that would disqualify from government benefits. Apparently student stipends (such as is common in graduate programs in universtities) do NOT count, and these families argued that the same should apply to kollel payments. So far, one judge has agreed with them. We'll see what the appellate court says.

Meanwhile, the administrator calling it a "scam" is outrageous. You don't like the ruling, either appeal or change the law. Till then, it is not a "scam" to take advantage of the provisions of law. The difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance has long been recognized, and one of the most famous US jurists once commented: "Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes."

30

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:05 PM Ex Kollel Guy Says:

Reply to #18  
CPA Says:

The law is a fellowship or scholarship is excluded from income if it meets specific criteria, none of which kollel pay meets, such as attainment of a degree from that institution (any kollel obviously fails this test alone, and there are others). Kollel money is 100% taxable income- whoever does not report is committing fraud.

I believe most kolleim do issue Rabbanic degrees an so its not taxable. Thanks for the clarification.

31

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:10 PM Ex kolel Guy Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

You can't get Medicaid, food stamps or many other government "entitlement" programs if you are in school full time.

As far as I know yes you can. Even for those programs that require a limited amount of work; if one is married and filles joint tax returns as long as one spouse is working and meeting the income limit requirements they are elligible. You may argue that its not in the spirt of things to beat the system but I don't believe its illegal.
Oh and by the way medicad & food stamps are not "entitlements". Only Medicare and social security is.

32

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:10 PM BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Reply to #8  
Avi Says:

You are a Soneh Hashem if you think this man is a Soneh Yisroel just because he has a better sense of ethics than you.

Tax evasion is illegal, as well as against Halachah.

I only asked what is the fraud? It seems the courts do not agree with you that it is even fraud. As far as Soneh Yisrael, it was very clear that this man was trying to pit the "Jews" against "people of color" That is not the mark of one who loves the Jews. Now, I will put up my tax records and ethical behavior against anyone out there, without reserve.

And to call me a Soneh Hashem, seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself, and ask for kapparah from me for that vicious and hurtful statement. Shame on you. I can take it, not to worry, but you need to be worried for your neshoma my friend.. I will offer you mechilah if you ask for it, because that is the kind of guy I am.

33

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
doc Says:

Sounds like this Mr. Ed is who needs to be stopped.
I don't understand- only poor people of 'color' are allowed to receive aid?

"Sounds like this Mr. Ed is who needs to be stopped.'

They tried that with Mr. Rothenberg. I thought we don't believe in violence. Day is preventing fraud and you feel the need to stop him? Obviously, you don't work.

34

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:17 PM yaakov doe Says:

Apparently the article is referring to the decision of a State Administrative Law Judge to 3 "Fair Hearings. An ALJ is a lawyer, not an actual judge and review challanges to Social Services Dept actions as other ALJs review parking tickets and moving violations. It appears that the Rockland County DSS will be appealing these deciusions through an article 78 proceeding which is heard in the State Supreme Court in front of a real judge.

35

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:19 PM BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Reply to #8  
Avi Says:

You are a Soneh Hashem if you think this man is a Soneh Yisroel just because he has a better sense of ethics than you.

Tax evasion is illegal, as well as against Halachah.

By the way, this is neither tax evasion nor fraud. They in fact received a favorable ruling by the tax court and are due the payment. Your reading and comprehension skills need some work, obviously along with your middos.

36

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:40 PM Facts1 Says:

Yair Lapid of rockland county.

37

 Apr 07, 2014 at 02:46 PM ShatzMatz Says:

If this guy is referring to entitlements then the fact that the kollel families get aid does not in any way diminish the aid available to people of color. Thats why it's called an entitlement. At least when the aid is going to kollel families it is going to intact functioning families who otherwise contribute to society. In most cases this cannot be said about those other "families".

I still think it was a bad idea for this 3 families to challenge their status. It opened a can of worms that no one needed

38

 Apr 07, 2014 at 04:37 PM charliehall Says:

Reply to #18  
CPA Says:

The law is a fellowship or scholarship is excluded from income if it meets specific criteria, none of which kollel pay meets, such as attainment of a degree from that institution (any kollel obviously fails this test alone, and there are others). Kollel money is 100% taxable income- whoever does not report is committing fraud.

Actually stipends for students in degree programs are subject to federal, state, and local income tax.

39

 Apr 07, 2014 at 04:38 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #20  
Mark Levin Says:

He is starting with the wronnnnnnng people. I wonder how he plans on spending his retirement?

Mark Levin said something bad about a Republican. Mashiach is coming.

But I'm sure that three years from now he will come to his senses and tell us that Day's Democratic opponent is evil.

40

 Apr 07, 2014 at 04:53 PM BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Reply to #37  
ShatzMatz Says:

If this guy is referring to entitlements then the fact that the kollel families get aid does not in any way diminish the aid available to people of color. Thats why it's called an entitlement. At least when the aid is going to kollel families it is going to intact functioning families who otherwise contribute to society. In most cases this cannot be said about those other "families".

I still think it was a bad idea for this 3 families to challenge their status. It opened a can of worms that no one needed

Your point is a good one...these are hard working people, (hopefully) raising law abiding children. This is not the same as the permanent underclass that "raises" children to mostly populate our prisons.

41

 Apr 07, 2014 at 05:31 PM RobertS Says:

Reply to #5  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Ask this soneh Yisrael why Jewish children are any different than "children of color" What is the scam he is talking about?

He's playing the race card for sure but that doesn't excuse fraud, tax cheating. And chillul hashem

42

 Apr 07, 2014 at 06:05 PM chevra-man Says:

Kollel pay can be structured to comply with all government guidelines, and still allow the kollel couple all the benefits of any government program. Just look at Lakewood, which has thousands of kollel yungerleit receiving all these programs. And the government officials make them report every penny that they are required to. My son just got onto Section-8, and he had to show proof of every penny he receives from BMG. They aren't stupid or blind...

43

 Apr 07, 2014 at 06:27 PM c Says:

Reply to #29  
Lawyer Says:

To # 4 and # 8 --

What is involved here is neither fraud nor tax evasion. AFAIK, the people involved did not hide the fact that they received kollel stipends. The issue, rather, is a legal one -- do such stipends count as income that would disqualify from government benefits. Apparently student stipends (such as is common in graduate programs in universtities) do NOT count, and these families argued that the same should apply to kollel payments. So far, one judge has agreed with them. We'll see what the appellate court says.

Meanwhile, the administrator calling it a "scam" is outrageous. You don't like the ruling, either appeal or change the law. Till then, it is not a "scam" to take advantage of the provisions of law. The difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance has long been recognized, and one of the most famous US jurists once commented: "Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes."

This comment seems to make a lot of sense. There may be a separate issue of some Kollels that act improperly, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. For one example those Kolles that are a front for yeshivas to pay their Rebbaim off the books are a problem. There are other scams as well. However, that does not seem to be the issue here, unless that is the point the County Exec is making and can't understand how the admin judge missed that.

44

 Apr 07, 2014 at 06:27 PM BukharaJew Says:

Reply to #22  
Ex kollel Guy Says:

I respectfully disagree. While in kollel you are simply student studying in a unversity. You are not preaching or "working". I believe college stipends are not considered taxable wages.
While I get the mussar part. All those learning should take kollel as serious as a job. But from a legal stand point I think you are mistaken.

in my comunity in rego park we are having no kolels at all and everyone is suporting the family from a job and paying taxes and paying for own food and eckspenses. no one is asking this goverment to suport them. we working hard for a living and none of us in kolel.

45

 Apr 07, 2014 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

By the way, this is neither tax evasion nor fraud. They in fact received a favorable ruling by the tax court and are due the payment. Your reading and comprehension skills need some work, obviously along with your middos.

" They in fact received a favorable ruling by the tax court and are due the payment. Your reading and comprehension skills need some work, obviously along with your middos."


A lawyer made the decision, not a judge. It will now go before a judge who has to work every day and most likely, his family works, his neighbors work and his assistants work. No way will he allow parents to deduct their kids until the kids are 40 years old!!!!!!!!

I'm happy Mr. Day is taking charge. This is my tax money being used fraudulently by Frum neighbors.

46

 Apr 07, 2014 at 07:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #44  
BukharaJew Says:

in my comunity in rego park we are having no kolels at all and everyone is suporting the family from a job and paying taxes and paying for own food and eckspenses. no one is asking this goverment to suport them. we working hard for a living and none of us in kolel.

what about the barbers??

47

 Apr 07, 2014 at 07:56 PM Micka Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Read the article! Do the research. There are families sitting and not working, collecting $75,000 a year in government benefits for 20-30 years, while "families" of color are working three jobs, struggling to stay afloat and cannot afford child care, because these families are using up the limited funds, while they sit and shtieg all day long.

Yes clearly you are "not" biased towards the Charadi/Orthodox Community, The turth is that there are a majority of people that study hard, do tutoring jobs in the evenings, etc. and dedicate their lives to their families, Torah, & Hashem, so even if there is a precentage, a tiny precentage mind you, that are wasting their and their families time by staying in Kollel, that is not the case in the majority of long-term kollel students, only the derlict and semi-insane could waste their time for 20-30 years, most people leave Kollel after a few years if they are not ment for it.
So, even this tiny precentage dosen't compare to the [also not large, but there] wellfare abuse in other cummunitys including "families of color", but you decided to focus on the "scaming jews" vs. the "hard working families of color", I belive I made my case, it is a matter of your perspective and your state of mind, and not the "research" or wathever you and "Adas Korach", in your deplated, sad state of mind, spew forth.

48

 Apr 07, 2014 at 08:19 PM hashomer Says:

Reply to #40  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Your point is a good one...these are hard working people, (hopefully) raising law abiding children. This is not the same as the permanent underclass that "raises" children to mostly populate our prisons.

To #37 and 40. You hardly prove your points by being racist. I heard somewhere about 2 wrongs not making 1 right.

49

 Apr 07, 2014 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
Ex Kollel Guy Says:

I believe most kolleim do issue Rabbanic degrees an so its not taxable. Thanks for the clarification.

But are they degrees that are recognizable to outside institutions? Are they state recognized schools? I didn't think so. Hence, they aren't really "degrees" but rather certificates at a non accredited school.

50

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:04 PM CPA Says:

Reply to #38  
charliehall Says:

Actually stipends for students in degree programs are subject to federal, state, and local income tax.

Actually, Charlie, you are wrong. See IRS topic 421

Qualified scholarship and fellowship grants are treated as tax-free amounts if the following conditions are met:
•You are a candidate for a degree at an educational institution that maintains a regular faculty and curriculum and normally has a regularly enrolled body of students in attendance at the place where it carries on its educational activities;

51

 Apr 07, 2014 at 11:06 PM CPA Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

But are they degrees that are recognizable to outside institutions? Are they state recognized schools? I didn't think so. Hence, they aren't really "degrees" but rather certificates at a non accredited school.

Exactly. They have to be issued from a recognized institution of higher learning. Not Kollel Avraham Yitzchak Yaakov.

52

 Apr 08, 2014 at 08:34 AM OpenOrthodox Says:

It seems as if the county executive has been reading Pirkei Avot and Mishneh Torah! Any learning not accompanied by work leads to sin.

53

 Apr 08, 2014 at 08:46 AM RocklandMom Says:

It is not a question of tax fraud or of the legitimacy of the kollel. They get W-2's that list their kollel income and they presumably report it. It does not matter if there is no degree awarded. Actually, if the kollel was an accredited program with a degree, eligible families would only be able to collect for up to 2-3 years, I think. However, because kollel income is treated like a student stipend, it is exempt from FICA withholding, not income tax. Since their income qualifies them for child care benefits, they can get them. The issue is that there is no time limit on how long a family can receive the benefits if they continue to qualify. While Day and DSS may not like it, the law as it exists permits eligible families to receive the child care benefits for years. If people have a problem with it, state legislators need to change the law so that families can only collect child care benefits for a certain number of years.

54

 Apr 08, 2014 at 09:20 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #40  
BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Your point is a good one...these are hard working people, (hopefully) raising law abiding children. This is not the same as the permanent underclass that "raises" children to mostly populate our prisons.

Really now. You and 37 are not correct. This is not 20 years ago where maybe your comment would be true. Today the underclass that you referred to is catching up to the middle class. Many of them are getting an education and making something with their lives. HOWEVER the frum population has REGRESSED b/c of the kollel system. Secular education is a big NO NO. White collar crime is way up in the frum world. Our "leaders" AKA Rabbonim on a daily basis protect bad people. I think you should rethink your comment and be emes about your surroundings.

55

 Apr 08, 2014 at 10:48 AM Ex Kollel guy Says:

Reply to #44  
BukharaJew Says:

in my comunity in rego park we are having no kolels at all and everyone is suporting the family from a job and paying taxes and paying for own food and eckspenses. no one is asking this goverment to suport them. we working hard for a living and none of us in kolel.

From a moral standpoint you may be correct (and thats a whole other debate). But the question here is are they doing something illegal? And to that the answer is no. We can't mix emotions with strictly obeying the law or not.

In a simailar vain when large corporations set up large subsidarires offshore to aviod taxation are they obeying the law? Yes. Are they abusing the law? Perhaps.

56

 Apr 08, 2014 at 10:52 AM Ex kollel Guy Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

But are they degrees that are recognizable to outside institutions? Are they state recognized schools? I didn't think so. Hence, they aren't really "degrees" but rather certificates at a non accredited school.

Yes, most of them are accredited rabbanic bachelors and masters degrees and are " real" degrees.In fact Kollels want real degrees so that they can get pell grants. Are they degrees that lead to meaningfull employment? No. But thats not a requirement thus far. If you'd like you can change the law to require it.

57

 Apr 08, 2014 at 10:55 AM Ex Kollel guy Says:

Reply to #51  
CPA Says:

Exactly. They have to be issued from a recognized institution of higher learning. Not Kollel Avraham Yitzchak Yaakov.

Almost all are recognized. They may have a very jewish sounding name like Kollel Avraham Yitzchok but they are government accredited. And they want accrediation too so that they can get pell grants.

58

 Apr 08, 2014 at 11:29 AM BuckyinWisconsin Says:

Reply to #48  
hashomer Says:

To #37 and 40. You hardly prove your points by being racist. I heard somewhere about 2 wrongs not making 1 right.

Did I mention any race?

59

 Apr 08, 2014 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Micka Says:

Yes clearly you are "not" biased towards the Charadi/Orthodox Community, The turth is that there are a majority of people that study hard, do tutoring jobs in the evenings, etc. and dedicate their lives to their families, Torah, & Hashem, so even if there is a precentage, a tiny precentage mind you, that are wasting their and their families time by staying in Kollel, that is not the case in the majority of long-term kollel students, only the derlict and semi-insane could waste their time for 20-30 years, most people leave Kollel after a few years if they are not ment for it.
So, even this tiny precentage dosen't compare to the [also not large, but there] wellfare abuse in other cummunitys including "families of color", but you decided to focus on the "scaming jews" vs. the "hard working families of color", I belive I made my case, it is a matter of your perspective and your state of mind, and not the "research" or wathever you and "Adas Korach", in your deplated, sad state of mind, spew forth.

You need to learn how to spell in English. Let me guess, you are in a kollel in Rockland and don't need to learn anything but just study for 30 years.

60

 Apr 08, 2014 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #54  
FBF37 Says:

Really now. You and 37 are not correct. This is not 20 years ago where maybe your comment would be true. Today the underclass that you referred to is catching up to the middle class. Many of them are getting an education and making something with their lives. HOWEVER the frum population has REGRESSED b/c of the kollel system. Secular education is a big NO NO. White collar crime is way up in the frum world. Our "leaders" AKA Rabbonim on a daily basis protect bad people. I think you should rethink your comment and be emes about your surroundings.

I don't think statistics agree with your emotional reaction. The rove of kollel Yungeleit are seemingly law abiding moral people. Yes, they are taking advantage of every subsidy and government program on the books, and you may have an emotional argument regarding the propriety of doing so, but that does not create a law breaker.

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