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Monsey, NY - Town supervisor to Convey Urgent Meeting on The Disrespect By Police Officer Of Frum Woman, Photos Destroyed |
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The Monsey Jewish community is outraged and furious that the male ramapo officers In a blatant disrespect to this sensitive issue as the woman begged the officer to understand that by doing so is a blatant dishonor to her, and her Jewish religion, the officer ignored her plea.
The police officer has also refused the womans request for a female officer to handle her
The town supervisor Christopher P. St. Lawrence has just released the below statement to the media
Recently, as Supervisor of the Town of Ramapo, I was made aware of an arrest of two members of the New Square community. It is my understanding that troubling questions have been raised as to the propriety of the behavior of the Police officer involved during the processing of the individuals following arrest.
It has always been my position, as Supervisor of the Town of Ramapo and as Chairman of the Ramapo Police Commission, to respect the religious and cultural beliefs of all our citizens. Therefore, I will not tolerate any inappropriate or insensitive behavior by any member of the police department and am prepared to take whatever action is necessary to address any complaint that may be made about this situation.
While this matter is being reviewed, I have directed that we re-double our efforts in the area of Community Policing. I have charged Deputy Chief of Police James Quinn, with the task of reviewing our Community Policing program and immediately implementing additional programs in the area of sensitivity training, including individual training for all Ramapo Police officers. I believe that this will foster a greater understanding by our Police force of the religious and cultural beliefs of our citizens throughout the Town of Ramapo. I invite members of the Town of Ramapo to contact me should they have any suggestions or concerns about this matter.
I sincerely hope that the community will accept my heartfelt apologies for the insensitive behavior that occurred.
I will work diligently to ensure that our Police force will understand the concerns of the community so that this will never be repeated in the Town of Ramapo.
In addition, I am convening a special meeting of the Ramapo Police Commission on Monday June 23rd, to deal directly with the Police officer in this instance.
Christopher P. St. Lawrence -Supervisor
U/D 2:52 PM
The officer, Jonathan Quinn, is to go before a police board next week. The photo is to be destroyed.
Assemblyman Dov Hikind of Broorklyn who has been a strong advocate for religious freedom and respect, has told VIN news he will absolutely look into this case and see if there is anything from a legislation point, that he can help educate law enforcement of the sensitivity of this type of issues.
Mr. Hikind also says that in NYC such an incident would have never occurred because the NYPD is educated on the sensitivity of the religious people
Total165
Read Comments (165) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:16 PM nebach Says:
a real real nebach!!!! i hope the dude gets fired and she can get a good lawyer and try to make a few bucks to make her feel a little better!!
2
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:17 PM Anonymous Says:
Somehow there is a second side to this story that is not being reported.
I have a klal , when in Rome you do as the Roman's do
3
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:21 PM Anonymous Says:
would a muslim women have to remove the burqa?
4
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:24 PM Anonymous Says:
This is an outrage and shows the hatred of the Ramapo Police Department towards the frum community. Absolutely, I hope the officer is fired and his superiors are dealt with as well, as they let this happen...
5
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:27 PM Anonymous Says:
Sounds liks 1940's history does repeat itself. This happened in the U.S., right? Based on the story I may have thought Germany...
6
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:41 PM Big Event Says:
Disgusting
7
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:44 PM Anonymous Says:
Of course a moslem woman would not have to remove her burka, because you have to respect her religion.
11:17 Even if this woman is guilty of a crime and was arrested for a valid reason, there is absolutely no excuse for not allowing her the constitutional right of freedom of religion.
And 'if we are in rome....You better remove your kapel and tzitzis...Last time I looked, it is not what most NYers wear.
8
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:45 PM Anonymous Says:
Who was the officer? It should not be hard to find out... a male or female officer? Rookie or officer that has been there a while?
9
Jun 19, 2008 at 11:49 PM Anonymous Says:
I am really fed up with the disrespect by the Ramapo PD to the community. We once had a relationship, but you can say that is more than gone at this point! It seems every few days it is something else. Wake up Chief Brower you are in charge! I think.
10
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:02 AM Nigritude Ultramarine Says:
Based on the story I may have thought Germany...
It's the Holocaust card for the win!
11
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:07 AM 0222 member Says:
i think we all should go out as a protest at the police dept. this should never happin in our community. please call 845-357-2400 and protast this evil work. or email to supervisor@ramapo-ny.gov copy this site and paste to address
thanks for helping us and all of us
12
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:27 AM Anonymous Says:
where are all the macher's who are so friendly with the police dept. when you need them
sorry but i have no respect any more for the ramapo cops who by the way get paid from our hard earned money,,,they are a bunch of crooks look at ,dale ,
it took 3 years of complaints till they took action.
13
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:38 AM Chaim dov Says:
Is thair any action going on?we must do somthing.does anyone have any more info?
14
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:43 AM monsey 112 Says:
what are the unspecified charges . Story definately has another side to this story. Why do u all be dan lekaf zechus on this cop just like you want us to be dan lekaf zechus on this lady who was arrested . the truth will come out very about both the cop and tjis lady who was arrested. just wait and see and stop lynching this cop before you hear both sides of the story
15
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:44 AM joe Says:
Hello!
Remove your wig for a second or two while I take a picture!! Isnt that the law?? How many exceptions can we make??
You people are so juvinile!
Nazi, Germany, KKK, AntiSemites, blah blah blah.
16
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:44 AM Anonymous Says:
The cop can't arrest a woman for no reason. It doesn't fly. I am not sure if you no anything about police work, but when you arrest someone you must have these things called REASONS. So before you jump down this cops throat you must realize that he probably had a valid reason to arrest this woman and maybe just maybe you are going a little too crazy on RPD who has to put up with all of your garbage 24/7. For examples of what garbage, it would be my greatest honor to explain in detail. This woman most likely did something wrong and thats why she was thrown into a cell and she prob gave the cop attitude witch got her into some more problems. You make your bed, you sleep in it
17
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:47 AM Shaul Boruch Says:
Can someone please post if there is any reason to go to the police station now? It's approx 12:45 AM.
18
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:55 AM NYC Man Says:
AND WHY WAS SHE ARRESTED?
what did this women do that wasnt "inappropriate" to warrant her being arrested?
19
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:56 AM Anonymous Says:
r u aware that our so calld FRIEND "ST. Lawrence"
is like the Police commissioner
so lets see what he will do for this
if you think that something like this or any other Unjustified arrest
could be reprimanded
20
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:57 AM NYC Man Says:
stop crying 1940s and germany. please.
dina dmalchusa dina.
she isnt the first frum woman to get arrested.
did she commit a crime? did she break a law? that is the tachlis here. not being requested to lift her wig off for her criminal mug shots.
please.
21
Jun 20, 2008 at 12:57 AM berl Says:
it shows how our police officers are untrained and disrespectfull of the jewish community
22
Jun 20, 2008 at 01:06 AM Matzahlocal101 Says:
I would think that cops that work in Monsey would be appreciative of the fact that their work involves more writing tickets and considerably less getting shot at by drug dealers than other beats. I would also think being that a good percentage of people that work in town hall are frum, cops would be aware of the "cultural needs" of our population. Additionally it would seem there must be some protocol that female arrestees are handled by female cops, (TO PROTECT THE COPS! from claims of abuse.) If women can be photographed for drivers ID (and passports) with the wig, and most women have hair, what would be the big problem of photographing her with the wig?
Mistamah, the cop was probably angry at Rubashkin for hiring illegals and not allowing them to unionize like police, no?
23
Jun 20, 2008 at 01:09 AM Anonymous Says:
She was set up!! She did nothing! I can vouch for it she is a top teacher in BY of RAMAPO!!! We should all continue to daven for her release
24
Jun 20, 2008 at 01:13 AM Shaul Boruch Says:
Regardless of why the woman was arrested she has rights and requesting a female officer for processing is virtually SOP in any police department in the country. Civil rights law exists precisely for this reason. Taking a person into custody doesn't give duly constituted authority carte blanche to do whatever they want - even if the person arrested acts inappropriately.
25
Jun 20, 2008 at 01:14 AM Anonymous Says:
You should Daven for justice to be served! You can't vouch for someone. You think you know someone so well and then Bam! She pulls a stunt like this. The Ramapo Police Dep't is a very respected Dep't and doesn't make false arrests. I'm glad that you know her from BY but you don't know her well enough. I don't care if she is your co-worker who happens to be a very good friend of yours, who lives next door to you, who is also your sister-in-law!!!! You don't know everyone and what they do!!!! Classic Jewish Mentality. I know everyone and everything
26
Jun 20, 2008 at 01:21 AM MDN Says:
Wrong! The tachlis is NOT the crime. Because aperson alegadley commits a crime you cannot disrespect them or deem them guilty until they are found guilty at trial. Our women don't wear veils and burkas like the arabic women covering their faces and just like you don't shave a persons head in orfer to take a mug shot the PD shpuld not ask her to remove her wig, irespective of the aleged crime
27
Jun 20, 2008 at 01:38 AM EDIT0R Says:
IF SHE BROKE THE LAW, YOU MAY ARREST, BUT NOT ALLOWED TO TELL HER TO TURN OFF THE WIG.
28
Jun 20, 2008 at 01:50 AM Anonymous Says:
sounds like the lakewood police
29
Jun 20, 2008 at 02:11 AM Anonymous Says:
to anon 1:14
simply put "you are out of line" (im kein - ein laduvur soif)
30
Jun 20, 2008 at 02:17 AM Anonymous Says:
to anonymous 1:14
You are contradicting youself
You wrote this all in one sentence!
1)You think you know someone so well and then Bam
2)The Ramapo Police Dep't is a very respected Dep't and doesn't make false arrests
first you doubt the general knowledge of one another, & thereafter you are so certain about the police departement
31
Jun 20, 2008 at 02:52 AM Yid Says:
For all you high and mighty "dina dmalchusa dina'
Even if she was arrested for a terrible crime... She is still in the USA. Her request for a female officer is LEGAL!!!!
Arresting and degrading are two different things.
Why are you all saying THE LAW IS THAT SHE HAS TO REMOVE HER SHEITEL. Did you go to law school???????????
I wonder if a cancer patient is arrested, do they have to remove there headcover and show a bald head for a mug shot?? I don't think so.
For all of you that have already convicted her of terrible crime, Remember that in the USA you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!
And on this site, she was already judged and sentenced by some people who don't even know the law.
32
Jun 20, 2008 at 03:09 AM Anonymous Says:
who cares if there is a reason or not for the arrest, y did the wig come in the picture no matter what crime it should b
33
Jun 20, 2008 at 03:13 AM anon. Says:
DINA D'MALCHUSA DINA!!!
Where do you take it from? The torah !! The SAME torah that says you should judge others favorably.
Were you ever arrested? If not then you were never in her shoes and should not judge her.
Do you even know who it is? It could be a relative of yours.
Did you all finish law school?
Are you totally familiar with the laws about arrests?
AND MOST IMPORTANT, ARE YOU ALL SAMPLE CITIZENS WHO FOLLOW EACH AND EVERY LAW?
34
Jun 20, 2008 at 03:23 AM anon. Says:
To NYC Man,
Maybe the "tachlis" is that her rights as an American were violated?
And even if she was rightly arrested, SHE IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!!
YOU would probably love to take off your kappel and tzitzis for a mug shot.
35
Jun 20, 2008 at 04:48 AM M.P. Says:
Would you agree that a captured terrorist should be photographed any way the authorities feel apropiate?
I'm not suggesting this lady is a terrorist CH"V.
No one here seems to know what crime she has been charged for. In some cases it might be appropiate to force a criminal to remove a wig even if its against your religius belief.
Just a different prespective.
36
Jun 20, 2008 at 06:18 AM Anonymous Says:
After all we pay one of the height taxes, but elect people to represent us that have their houses under congregations, get their tickets taken care off under the table, they don't feel our pain 4 different police departments patrolling the same safe community, and the officers have to meet their quota, they behave with such disrespect to the average citizen, but again our leader are above average!!!
37
Jun 20, 2008 at 06:42 AM Anonymous Says:
What's she supposed to have done? Was she wearing a "spitz" mit a tiechel? That could have been the issue.
My license has me wearing a wig, so does my now defunct green card. There's more to this, although I'll bet it's pure anti semitism. Yes, that's right! When the Supreme Court "paskened" a couple of days ago that terrorists get the same rights as we do, we must respect their civil rights, it makes me wonder what this woman could have done that was so bad that she lost HER civil rights.
Women should protest @ the stationhouse.
38
Jun 20, 2008 at 06:48 AM BMoss Says:
the mud shot must have an accurate picture of her.
Wearing a shetle allows one to change one's appearance. Let's cool down and wait to hear the whole story
39
Jun 20, 2008 at 06:49 AM BMoss Says:
evcuse me , I meant mug shot and shaytle. lol It's too early
40
Jun 20, 2008 at 08:04 AM unit0220 Says:
we also had a lot of prob. withe ramapo police
41
Jun 20, 2008 at 08:16 AM Anonymous Says:
BMoss-What you are suggesting is absurd. You can shave your hair, grow a beard and hair, which all change your facial look.
42
Jun 20, 2008 at 08:23 AM Chacham Mah Nishtanah Says:
You guys make it sound that you have to commit an awful crime to get arrested. Well, in NY, if you don't pay a single driving ticket, your license gets suspended, and you will be mandatory ARRESTED for driving with a suspended license! Isn't that a terrible crime! I would very much imagine that is what she was arrested for.
43
Jun 20, 2008 at 08:27 AM lavdafka Says:
Hi , 0222 12:07 AM
IS THIS THE KIND OF LETTER I SHOULD BE WRITING?
Email: supervisor@ramapo-ny.gov
Ramapo PD
Chief Brower;
It has been brought to my attention a recent incident of a terrible abuse by one of your officers. This involves one of your officers violating a Monsey woman. We here in the Monsey religious community are Indignant with this kind unprofessionalism given here by the Ramapo police force, I can’t begin to tell you how unhappy and disappointed I am with this kind and blatant disrespect to this woman.
Sa???? ???man
?? West Maple Ave
Monsey NY 10952
( 845) 352 ????
44
Jun 20, 2008 at 08:53 AM long live Zionisom Says:
all those who mock and wirte on this blog against the cops dont go running to them an kiss up to them when you need them and they will protect you
She violated the law she deserves to get arrested they treat any alleged criminal the same way she has to remove any covering in cse she will be a fugitive....
maybe thank an officer for helping you u next time make dinners to help give them citizen appreciation
45
Jun 20, 2008 at 08:54 AM NYC Man Says:
anon 3:23,
If so, then you must afford the SAME benefit of the doubt you demand for the woman for the cops as well.
To sit here and start calling them 1940s german nazis is sickening and embarassing to the jewish community. is that how we should react? maybe they did know? maybe they dont care? maybe they are taught not to care? maybe they treat all criminals arrested the same? are they not innocent til proven guilty too?
why just blindly call them nazis cuz they did their job according to its description?
46
Jun 20, 2008 at 08:56 AM NYC Man Says:
and 3:23 -
that IS the tachlis. if she had done anything that warranted getting arrested, she would not have been in that situation to have her rights violated in the first place.
47
Jun 20, 2008 at 09:14 AM long live Zionisom Says:
lets get this straight
HER RIGHTS WERE NOT VIOLATED at any time...
she can request a female officer to pat her down but to remover her head gear doesnt have a ny standings that a female officer should be called on scene for
if it were a muslim this happened too you would praise the officer for what he did
48
Jun 20, 2008 at 09:23 AM lavdafka Says:
She was delinquent in responding to traffic summons . Police followed a voluntary discretionary arrest . This is very sad and unfortunate. This has happened many times before.
49
Jun 20, 2008 at 09:37 AM Anonymous Says:
That's all?? I was so sure she was a combination of Osama bin Laden & Jeffrey Dahmer, if not worse.
50
Jun 20, 2008 at 09:43 AM a yid Says:
to long live zionisim: your comments are very appropriate for a zionist (full of sinas yisroel)
51
Jun 20, 2008 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:
This is crazy! Seriously, everyone has rights and no matter the cause of the arrest, until proven guilty she is innocent! But forget all of that. I honestly believe that all the comments belittling this woman for not taking her head covering off are from men. As a frum woman who covers her hair I can't express enough how terribly difficult this must have been for her. If I had to disgrace myself in such a manner I would turn to my community to protect me, not bash me and abandon me at a time like this. Shame on all you who decided that this is not considered a violation of her rights! It is no different then siddurim, chumashim and other sefarim being removed from prisons-its a VIOLATION of peoples human rights. Also, all of you believing the "good work" these officers do-don't kid yourself! They are not out there to help and protect you. They are out there for themselves, for the power trip as in this case in particular. For all other legal photos such as passport all you need to do is push your bangs back and NEVER do you have to remove your head covering when wearing it for religious reasons.
52
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:00 AM Anonymous Says:
as a monsey resident i'm happy that unfortunalty this story happened cause its about time this police officers will realize they can't do what they want they constantly abuse us !
53
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:01 AM Anonymous Says:
oh please 9:58 the law is the law too bad!!
54
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:04 AM Anonymous Says:
It is a terrible chillul hashem when a frum person gets arrested. It would be better if this woman wore a hat or a cap rather than a sheitel so that she would be less identifiable as a religious Jew. I am not implying that she's guilty of the crime she has been accused of. I am just suggesting that one should use discretion to try and prevent chillul hashem whenever possible. To further exacerbate the situation by refusing to take off the sheitel during her booking is totally wrong and only increases the chillul hashem. The gemara in Kiddushin tells us that if a man is so overcome by his yetzer hara and insists on sinning, he should go to a town where nobody recognizes him and dress in dark clothing so that he is not identified as an observant Jew. All this to prevent chillul hashem, which is worse than the sin/crime itself. This should apply to all frum Jews that have run afoul of the law.
55
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:06 AM Anonymous Says:
Nebech is right, she was unjustly umiliated and her civil rights traspassed.But this brings out the best in us having the Rabbi's work this out in a civil and peacefull manner, I can only imagine if this happened in Harlem, there would be riots all over town.
We all have a duty to rally behind the cause and leave no table unturned until the Police make good on this, B"H Ramapo is a good Dept. And I'm sure the Supervisor is on top of this.
56
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:11 AM huh Says:
how does a hat or cap make you less identifiable as a jew? especially when today's fancy expensive wigs defeat the whole purpose behind wearing a shaitel in the first place???
57
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:11 AM Shaul Boruch Says:
I hope not every one here is a Jew, and I don't meam frum, I mean I hope there are goyim posting here. Because when a bas yisroel gets arrested, whatever the reason, it is incumbent on the entire community to support her and do whatever it can to address the issues lawfully and swiftly so that the woman doesn't have to be incarcerated for a second longer than necessary.
This is a critical failure of klal yisroel - not protecting our women. Get comfortable in golus, baby, we're gonna be here a while.
58
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:12 AM huh Says:
traffic summons for what? breaking the law? why do people in our community take traffic and driving violations so lightly? they are laws to protect people IT IS SAKANAS NEFASHOIS.
preiod.
the rabbanim need to start telling people not to take traffic laws so lightly and maybe just maybe people will start to realize what should be common sense.
59
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:15 AM Shaul Boruch Says:
Anonymous 10:04 - how can someone able to quote gemara speak in such an ignominous fashion? Whether or not the woman was in custody, she has certain unassailable rights that cannot be violated regardless of the circumstances. And this was for a traffic ticket, no less! She's not a criminal. But even if she were a murderous felon, her civil rights remain hers, and if she was mistreated, then the police were wrong.
60
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:16 AM Anonymous Says:
Let me gewt something streight. MUST a women remove a wig to take a picture, I don't think so!
61
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:18 AM im the coolest Says:
hashem yirachem
62
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:
I LIVE IN FLATBUSH AND I PERSONALLY KNOW 2 VERY FRUM OUTSTANDING WOMEN (AROUND THE CORNER FROM ME)WHO WERE THROWN INTO THE LOCAL SLAMMER, BOTH FOR NAHRISHKEIT, 1 WOMAN NOT ONLY HAD THE SAME TREATMENT AND THEN SOME (WAS TAUNTED BY THE COPS THEMSELVES AND HAD A CELLMATE WHO WAS A ZOINA WHILE SHE WAS INSIDE) THIS MESHUGANEH COP CLAIMED THAT ONE OF THE WOMAN TRIED TO RUN HIM OVER AND RAN OVER HIS FOOT, WHEN HE CALLED IN "COP DOWN" THEY ARRESTED HER IN THE WORST WAY -- WHILE HER KIDS IN THE CAR AND KOLLEL HUSBAND WATCHED. THIS WOMAN WAS IN THE CLINK FOR OVER 10 HOURS AND WAS A NUMBER OF MONTHS PREGNANT. HER FATHER IN LAW IS A VERY VERY WEALTHY AND POWERFUL ASKEN AND HE COULDNT DO A THING. IT IS STILL BEING DRAGGED OUT IN THE COURT SYSTEM (A JOKE) BY THESE BAHEIMAS.
THE OTHER WOMAN WAS ARRESTED, ALSO FOR NAHRISHKEIT ALONG WITH HER HUSBAND, WHO IS A VERY UPSATNDING FRUM ATTORNEY, IN FRONT OF THEIR SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE, IN THE DAYTIME, ON A QUIET BLOCK, WITH THEIR CHILDREN WATCHING. THEIR CHILDREN WERE LEFT THERE BY THEMSELVES (THE OLDEST WAS 10)
GUYS, ADMIT IT WE LIVE IN GALUS, FLATBUSH, MONSEY ETC ARE NOT OUR HOMES.
WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO TREAT THE STREETS LIKE OUR LIVING ROOMS, THE GOYIM--READ ANIMALS-- ARE GETTING RESTLESS AND HASHEM IS USING UP OUR ZECHUYOS FAST AND FURIOUS TO HELP US OUT, BUT THEY ARE RUNNING OUT. WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO RELY ON NISSIM, NOW IS THE TIME TO LEARN HOW TO ACT LIKE MENTSHEN TO THESE GOYIM, YES, EVEN THOUGH WE HATE THEM AND THEY HATE US. BECAUSE THEY HAD ENOUGH OF OUR YIDDISHE SHTICKLACH AND ARE TAKING OUT ON US AND OUR WOMAN AND CHILDREN.
GUYS WAKE UP!!!!! DO TESHUVA!!!!!
ELUL IS A COMING!
SIGNED A CONCERNED YID!
63
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:23 AM anon. Says:
NYC MAN.
I did not have to defend the policemans rights.You had already done that. :)
And about your 8:56 post.....You never break ANY law?????????
Or are YOU our model citizen who has studied all the laws and follows them to the letter??
64
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:26 AM Anonymous Says:
In response to 10:01, You are right the law is the law...Are you a criminal lawyer? Do you know what her rights are? Were you ever arrested and there for are familiar with the rights of a prisoner. Do you know why she was arrested? Do you know that you are required by law to remove your sheitel? Do you have any compasion for a woman who is a torah abiding woman and takes her mitzvah seriously? Do you know that she was arrested for a crime or can this be a mistake? You know, I know a man that was arrested because his car was stolen and he found it, when driving it home before he was able to report that he found it, he was arrested for stealing his own car-do you think a body search would have been appropriate, or do you think when they were holding him they should have not allowed him to use his teffilin? Do you think they should have made him shave his beard to get a better mug shot picture? Or do you think that as AM ECHAD when the TORAH is transgressed by force on a woman we should stand up and shout...SHE IS OUR PEOPLE! HaShem is her HaShem too and he alone can be the one to judge her. Not me not you. May HaShem forgive you and people like you for not standing up for his Torah. The police department SHOULD have provided a female officer? THEY EASILY COULD HAVE! THERE MOST PROBABLY WAS A FEMALE OFFICER IN THE NEXT ROOM. WHAT WAS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT GETTING A WOMAN INTO THE ROOM INSTEAD OF A MAN? It's just as bad as asking her to remove her clothing infront of a male officer. It's one of our mitzvos as women, until you do this mitzva or until you internalize the value of this mitzva you can not possibly realize the massive degration this can cause a woman. I DO care about her crime BUT one has nothing to do with the other. The law broke itself when they voilated her civil rights. Maybe, we should arrest the officer and all the officers in charge because if we are judging our own so harshly about her being violated dont you think you can channel some of that incorrect anger towards the law enforcers who broke the law?
65
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM Chacham Mah Nishtanah Says:
It's unfortunate that some on this forum seem to believe that removing a women's headcovering is about as serious as a man removing his hat.
Well the Torah does not think so! For those who just learned Daf Yomi, or listened ti the leining Parshas Naso, should know that removing a women's headcovering is one of the worst embarresment that can be done to the Jewish Women!
So all of you who are not careful in covering your/wife's hair, learn this lesson, take heed and don't fool yourself, there is NO HETER!
66
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:34 AM lavdafka Says:
Reliable source has it; reason for arrest : DELINQUENT IN RESPONDING TO TRAFFIC SUMMONS. Police followed a voluntary discretionary arrest . This is very sad and unfortunate. This has happened many times before.
67
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:38 AM crown heights Says:
anon. Says:
DINA D'MALCHUSA DINA!!!
Where do you take it from? The torah !! The SAME torah that says you should judge others favorably.
Were you ever arrested? If not then you were never in her shoes and should not judge her.
Do you even know who it is? It could be a relative of yours.
Did you all finish law school?
Are you totally familiar with the laws about arrests?
AND MOST IMPORTANT, ARE YOU ALL SAMPLE CITIZENS WHO FOLLOW EACH AND EVERY LAW?
06-20-2008 - 3:13 AM
===============================================
Were u ever a police officer before? then dont judge how a police should act or do. Its dina dmalchusa dina whichever way yu cut the cake. If she can prove her innocence im sure she will do so very shortly. Not responding to summonses is a ticket fines and arrest warrented
68
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:38 AM tootired Says:
Anonymous: So what your saying to all frum women is..."if you are about to be arrested remove your sheitel and put on a hat, as a matter of fact always carry a spare hat with you in your the trunk of your car - well call it the "just in case I get arrested hat"
Oh, by the way small question for you ... why would this help? wont the cops ask her to remove the hat as well?
69
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:49 AM Anonymous Says:
Shaul Baruch,
To me, at issue is not her constitutional rights. At issue is the chillul hashem which she and others posting here are not sensitive to. Making a federal case about taking off a sheitel, no matter how right you feel that you are, is nevertheless a chillul hashem in that frum Jews should not have to be in such a situation to begin with. When a gentile reads about such a story in the papers, his first reaction is "what crime did this Orthodox Jew commit?" Not, this Orthodox Jew is being unfairly persecuted while in custody. We have grown so accustomed to frum Jews being arrested for one type of crime or another, that we have become totally desensitized to the grave sin of chillul hashem. It's like the incarcerated Jew making a federal case out of not being served kosher food in prison. What's worse, eating treife or causing a chillul hashem? Just lay low, do your time and try to keep your nose clean in the future. You should not be flaunting your yiddishkeit under such circumstances.
70
Jun 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM anon. Says:
10:01, Are you so sure it is the law?
long live zionism,
About your 8:53 post. I think you should fight the law about mug shots that has such a terrible loophole that allows a person arrested not be pictured in EVERY imaginable way.
A criminal could grow/shave his beard, dye his/her hair, put on a wig,or any other thing that changes his/her appearance and we won't find them if he/she becomes a fugitive. This is absolutely terrible, run to your congressman, the law has to be changed.
We need strict laws about mug shots.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 10:54 AM anonymous Says:
comments threads like these make us look like such a bunch of idiots sometimes
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Jun 20, 2008 at 10:54 AM Anon1 Says:
SHEEEESSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Do people bother to read more than the headlines?? No one is questioning her arrest, what is being questioned is her treatment after she was arrested. Everyone is entitled to respect regardless of the crimes committed. All she asked for was a female officer, which is standard protocol in most police departments in USA.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:
10:26 cry cry cry, can't wait to see what happens to your "civil rights" when a democrat takes over......how about all of the people getting welfare,food stamps etc.. that don't need it?? isn't that considered a crime called "stealing from the government? now what....comment on that one......I have one word FRAUD
06-20-2008 - 10:41 AM
Seriously, you are delusional, or a self hating Jew-you pick! What THE HECK DOES FOOD STAMPS AND FRAUD have to do with this poor womans violation? AND I WILL CRY! I WILL CRY AND CRY AND CRY as long as I have too, to help save the neshamos of my people. NOT YOURS, MINE! I'M proud of 10:33 who gets it. THIS IS NOT A JOKE! Woman can not be violated and this was a VIOLATING ACT! NO DIFFERENT than if the officer would have pinched her A**! INFACT, as a woman who takes covering my hair seriously (BTW, that comment about wigs not doing the job right-its totally not the point of covering your hair-you missed the boat too! A woman can cover her hair with human hair sheitels as beautiful as she wants because it has nadda to do with the halacha.) I probably would find it equally as disturbing, yet the act of me having to remove my sheitel would be all the more degrading. To stand there and be denied a female officer and to remove my sheitel infront of a man is the same as putting on a strip show for the officer. He got his kicks in watching the show. His sick, twisted kicks. I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND how anyone, be them a Jew or not can tollerate another lowly human denying them of this right to a female officer.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:
we are idiots, need to get a JOB
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Jun 20, 2008 at 10:57 AM anonymous Says:
traffic laws are made for yours and all of our safety. anyone who treats them lightly deserves to be punished
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:
Better not got through security at JFK they too make you take off your sheitel how do they know your not hiding something under there? didn't you hear about the lady tried to smuggle 2.5 pounds of drugs under a wig recently , don't know if she was religious but you never know!! Her rights were not violated, they were doing there job.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:01 AM anonymous Says:
no one has the right to complain about searches for airplanes given the reason they are done
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:05 AM Moshe M'Radin Says:
TO ANON 10:57
YOU WRITE:
"traffic laws are made for yours and all of our safety. anyone who treats them lightly deserves to be punished"
ONLY AFTER A TRIAL & CONVICTION!!!!
This cop is not a Judge & Jury! He must be fired, he violated her basic human rights according to our Fed and State laws
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:09 AM Anonymous Says:
I know someone that was asked to take off their sheitel at JFK. They were escorted by TWO female security people to a place off to the side BEHIND closed doors. So for the woman who are asked to remove their sheitel stand up for your rights and ask for a private room!
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:16 AM gosh Says:
gosh
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:21 AM Anonymous Says:
OH MY! TERRIBLE
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:28 AM Charlie Hall Says:
Anonymous 11:09 AM: My wife was once asked to uncover her hair at an airport security checkpoint. She politely explained that she couldn't do that for religious reasons and asked for a private screening room with a female security officer. The security officers accepted her request.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:30 AM Spaceball Says:
I'm sorry, but there are so many stories out there of our fellow Jews involved in not such Jewish activities (according to Jewish law, that is), that I have a hard time sympathizing until I hear the other side.
In this day and age, just because someone is circumcised (male, for example) doesn't mean he's automatically correct. Maybe she was being disrespectful, or acting like a b**ch, or getting physical, who knows? Or, it's very possible anti-Semitism WAS involved.
But we shouldn't act like an Al Sharpton who will stand up for the worst gang member just because he's a homeboy (black). Too many times there is justification.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:35 AM SD Says:
Given that everyone here seems to be so knowledgeable about Jewish Law, I was wondering if someone could cite where it says in Shulchan Aruch that a married woman is not permitted to momentarily remove her wig indoors, especially where the only people present are non-Jews.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:51 AM lavdafka Says:
SD: If she had shaved her head it was probably extremely embarrassing for her… nothing to do with Shulchan Aruch!
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:52 AM anonymous Says:
Charlie Hall Says:
Anonymous 11:09 AM: My wife was once asked to uncover her hair at an airport security checkpoint. She politely explained that she couldn't do that for religious reasons and asked for a private screening room with a female security officer. The security officers accepted her request.
WOW! you mean she didnt put up a fight and run to the blogs for discrimination??? outstanding! kol hacavod to you and your wife.
lucky you didnt need to call dov hikind to write a letter to the airline lol
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Jun 20, 2008 at 11:56 AM Mendel Says:
I understand that if she broke the law she may have deserved to be arrested.
but the issue is that during a strip search a female prisoner has the right to request a female officer to either conduct the search or to be in the room.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 12:03 PM Chutzpa!! Says:
THE FUNNIEST THING ABOUT THIS WHOLE SITUATION IS HOW EVERYONE IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS!!!! WE DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY AND YET EVERONE HAS A "KASHA-TERETZ" AND DEFINATELY JUDGED EVERYONE INVOLVED ON THIS SITUATION...GET A LIFE WAIT FOR THE FACTS...SURE YOU'LL HEAR BOUT THEM IN THE "MIK"
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Jun 20, 2008 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:
SD Says:
Given that everyone here seems to be so knowledgeable about Jewish Law, I was wondering if someone could cite where it says in Shulchan Aruch that a married woman is not permitted to momentarily remove her wig indoors, especially where the only people present are non-Jews.
06-20-2008 - 11:35 AM
--------------------------------------------
You are a big Aam Haaretz. Hair of a married woman is Ervah and Asur to uncover, period.
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Jun 20, 2008 at 12:15 PM Anonymous Says:
I was once asked to remove my cap/hat at JFK immigration. I complied, I felt the Halachic implications were minor. The next time I entered the US I removed my cap and held it in my hand. The Immigration Officer asked me why I felt I had to remove my Yarmulka wahich he saw in my cap,