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Monsey, NY - PBA: Officer Didn't Violate Any Laws By Asking Woman To Remove Her Wig, DA: Respect Religious Beliefs |
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Monsey, NY - While the town supervisor yesterday sharply criticized a police officer for fingerprinting a Hasidic Jewish woman and ordering her to remove her wig for a mug shot following her arrest.
Ramapo union officials criticized St. Lawrence for his comments and defended the actions of the officer, whom St. Lawrence identified as Jonathan Quinn.
Police Benevolent Association President Dennis Procter said the officer didn't violate any laws or department procedures.
"The officer acted with the utmost professionalism and treated the arrested individual in the same manner any person would have been treated during the arrest processing," Procter said.
Police Chief Peter Brower declined to comment yesterday on the incident or the supervisor's criticism of the officer.
The standard procedure for police is to ask people arrested to remove a wig, turban, veil or any other head gear for a mug shot. A person arrested is under the authority of the police.
For example, Clarkstown Police Chief Peter Noonan said his officers could take photos of the suspect with a wig and without it.
And the officer would take a person's fingerprints, but might seek a legal opinion if a religious issue was raised.
"The objective of the photograph is to identify the person," Noonan said. "You want to know what the person looks like with or without the wig."
Police departments and other law enforcement authorities have procedures that take into account a person's religious beliefs. The Rockland Medical Examiner's Office, for example, has procedures concerning autopsies, given that autopsies are prohibited in some religions.
St. Lawrence said District Attorney Thomas Zugibe told him the photograph of the woman would be expunged and a new photo taken at a future date.
Zugibe said Ramapo officers processed the arrests of town residents for the investigation.
"I haven't seen any pattern reflective of insensitivity by the Ramapo Police Department," Zugibe said.
Zugibe said he understood the consternation of the religious community.
"In Rockland, we live in a very religious and culturally diverse community," Zugibe said. "We must be sensitive to the religious beliefs of people."
Ramapo police prepared for a protest yesterday based on rumblings within the community and phone calls to the media.
Officers put up sawhorses to cordon off an area for protesters in the police station's back parking lot.
While no protest materialized, Detective Lt. Brad Weidel said the police respect people's right to protest peacefully. He said other rumors were a protest might come tomorrow.
"If people want to protest at the police headquarters, they certainly have a right to, as long as they follow the rules," Weidel said.
Zugibe said details of the investigation and those arrested would be revealed on Monday.
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Read Comments (103) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:19 PM i understand :) Says:
can anybody clarify "WHY" she was aressted?
2
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:21 PM jj Says:
i knew this all along. If a arab women was to make a fuss about her head gear you guys would think she is crazy right? a frum women with a wig is no diffrence
3
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:29 PM Anonymous Says:
was arrested for welfare fraud
4
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:35 PM Ding Dong Says:
FOX NEWS REPORTING THAT SHE WAS ARRESTED FOR FRAUD.
If this "frum" lady was so embarrassed she should have complied and shut up. The more this lady was ranting at the scene and at the station house the more attention the story recieved and now the entire media outlets across the nation is talking about this case.
5
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:39 PM ilk Says:
A criminal does not deserve benefit of the doubt.
6
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:40 PM Renegade Says:
"If a arab women was to make a fuss about her head gear you guys would think she is crazy right? a frum women with a wig is no diffrence"
that is the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. An arabs head gear covers her face, you can't take a mug shot with the face covered.
a wig only covers the hair -the easiest part of the body to change. (you can cut it, die it, grow it longer or even wear a different color wig!)
There is no good reason to need to take off the wig for a mug shot.
7
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:43 PM Klipper Says:
We have to protect her religiuos beliefs? If this lady is so religious or "frum" why was she stealing to begin with?
Don't we love how people get in the religious debate when they get caught breaking the law?
It would be nice if VIN would go one week without a jew being in the news for making a chilul hashem.
Shvua tov.
8
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:00 PM monsey resident Says:
This happened because hashem is showing her mida kneged mida. You dont care about the laws of the land and the laws of shulchan aruch about stealing . Why wear a wig when you dont even keep the basic laws of of a jew.
9
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:
Come on guys!!! THis is your sister they're talking about!!! Some compassion!!!
10
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:19 PM south monsey res. Says:
Anonymous Says:
Come on guys!!! THis is your sister they're talking about!!! Some compassion!!!
06-21-2008 - 11:01 PM
==============================================
She is not my sister because my sister does not steal from the government and does not wear a wig . Stop with the cover ups and face the fact that she is totally guilty and does not deserve to be treated with white gloves. Arab women have to remove thier head coverings when they are arrested and so does a so called frum women.
11
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:26 PM Applepie Says:
Why direct the hatred inward?
12
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:32 PM MDN Says:
South Monsey, I have a question: Arabic women wear burkas covering their faces, our women wear wigs that simply replace their original hair. I understand that you are from a better cut and your wife wears no wig; I understand that you regret the day you were informed that you were Jewish, but from a Justice perspective, why when a lady has her own hair she needs not take a hair cut for the mug shot but if her hair is in the form of a wig she does? The answer is that she does not! The only time you are required to take of your wig for a mug shot is if you are a transexual freak and you are thereby disguising your true appearance.
13
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM Anonymous Says:
Actually, baseball caps, hats, and glsasses(!!!) are taken off for mug shots.
When our criminals (yes, she steal our tax dollars) ask for special consideration, don't you all think that it might make anti semaites out of officers who are not yet?
Also, by the way, speak to your own local rabbi, but it may not even be an issur to uncover the hair if the police officer is a goy, because there is no "lifnei eever"
14
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:42 PM s. monsey Says:
MDN Says:
South Monsey, I have a question: Arabic women wear burkas covering their faces, our women wear wigs that simply replace their original hair. I understand that you are from a better cut and your wife wears no wig; I understand that you regret the day you were informed that you were Jewish, but from a Justice perspective, why when a lady has her own hair she needs not take a hair cut for the mug shot but if her hair is in the form of a wig she does? The answer is that she does not! The only time you are required to take of your wig for a mug shot is if you are a transexual freak and you are thereby disguising your true appearance.
06-21-2008 - 11:32 PM
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Let me ask you something . Does your wife wear a wig 24/7? Honest answer here.
15
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:46 PM MDN Says:
My wife actually never wears a wig but I am no self-hating Jew
16
Jun 21, 2008 at 11:51 PM bigwheeel Says:
JJ & South Monsey Res. et al... The situation happened where an Arab woman applied for her driver's license and was asked to remove her "Hijab"? (headdress?) and she refused! The ruling, subsequently came down that she does not have to remove the Hijab! there you have it, self-conscious [and self-hating] Jews,... if at all...!!!
17
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:02 AM hasidic cop Says:
bigwheeel Says:
JJ & South Monsey Res. et al... The situation happened where an Arab woman applied for her driver's license and was asked to remove her "Hijab"? (headdress?) and she refused! The ruling, subsequently came down that she does not have to remove the Hijab! there you have it, self-conscious [and self-hating] Jews,... if at all...!!!
06-21-2008 - 11:51 PM
==========================================
Use your brains for a change . A license photo is not a mug shot . Mug shots are way different and have different status.
18
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:11 AM Anon K Says:
For all you self hating jews. Why is she guilty of anything when the law that all of you are quoting says that a person shal be inocent until proven guilty. You and I don't know if she stole anything. This whole thing could be a big mistake and all of you losers will get the "mida k'neged mida".
Btw: the last time I learned "shilcon orech" the "halacha" is that if a jew (OBEYING JEWISH HALACHA) falls into a hole you must take'em out and not allowed to push'em into a hole ("MAHLIN V'LOI MOREEDIN") even if that person didn't obey the "dina d'malchise". This woman still should be treated like any other jew, regardless if you like it or not.
19
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:11 AM Chamor Says:
innocent till prooven guilty. she is lucky she wasn't strip searched by some male officers. i would have advised her to shush up
20
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:15 AM NJ boy Says:
Why is everyone treating this lady as if she has been tried and convicted? What happened to dan lichaf schus? Even in our secular courts one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt! The officers in Monsey area should be forced to take special sensitivity training to know how to deal with Frum Yidden. That is no more than the police have to do in Muslim areas.
21
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:17 AM NJ boy Says:
To Hassidic Cop: is that you Shlomo?
22
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:20 AM Anonymous Says:
'The officers in Monsey area should be forced to take special sensitivity training to know how to deal with Frum Yidden'
Yea, then maybe they should also have to pass an Anti Semite test before being hired as well! Come on! You know that would never happen todays' days!!!
23
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:25 AM Anonymous Says:
a wig doesn't change the look of a FACE!! On my passport I'm wearing a different wig & different glasses. I'm also 10 years older now. No one has ever questioned it. I don't get this wig off business.
24
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:25 AM Anonymous Says:
The law is clear on this issue. Normaly a wig is removed for a mug shot but it is not required to be removed. Obviously the point is picture the defendant in thier most natural state. The officer was within his legal right to demand that the woman take off her wig. That is not the point. The officers in Monsey must be sensitive to the particulars of the community they patrol. For this officer to show such a degree of insensitivity to require a frum chasidishe woman to take off her wig is truly appaling and an outrage. Hopfully, it is only that he is stupid. Furthermore, last I check the law presumes one innocent until proven otherwise. Even so, anyone who justifies this officers act by equating the violation of a criminal law with the automatic loss of religous freedoms and rights has no concept or appreciation of American civil liberties.
25
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:26 AM hasidic cop Says:
Anonymous Says:
'The officers in Monsey area should be forced to take special sensitivity training to know how to deal with Frum Yidden'
Yea, then maybe they should also have to pass an Anti Semite test before being hired as well! Come on! You know that would never happen todays' days!!!
06-22-2008 - 12:20 AM
===========================================
and maybe they should give traing to chassanim and kallas how not to steal from the government.
26
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:34 AM Anonymous Says:
An Arab women isnt visible she should have to push it back just to see her face. A frum women doesn't need to be seen without the wig cuz she wouldnt be outside without it. Thats the difference.
27
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:41 AM Anonymous Says:
Just to give the cops more leniency, they can say that if this women is a criminal, then who knows if she wouldn't just go take off her wig to disguise herself (which does make a person look different, obviously). But since they do work among the Jewish Community, I think they should've been a little more cleared up on this issue, and NOT make her remove her wig. My personal opinion- They're real Anti Semites!!!
28
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:45 AM Anonymous Says:
hasidic cop unfortunatly does have a point. The haimish oilam has no concept of the severity of violating criminal laws. More importantly, why are we stealing..... Before we figure out the why there will be no remedies
29
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:53 AM Anonymous Says:
Nu? Not getting special treatment makes you say they are anti-semites?
If they take the wigs, glasses, hats, hijabs, etc, off of everyone when they take a mug shot, then they take them off of everyone.
If they take them off of Yidden, that just means, surprise, we're treated like everyone else. You know, the opposite of anti-semitism.
30
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:54 AM Anonymous Says:
To all self hating jews:
I am a jewish law abiding citizen, and the officer should do according to law, but a law is made to bend. It is no must to remove a wig for a mug shot and the cop should know that religious women are uncomfortable removing it and should know not to request it to be removed. Perhaps that is the reason they apologized.
And regarding the law breaking things she did. #1, Two wrongs don't make one right, if she did something wrong she doesn't have to be barred from her rights #2, I would like to know if you guys do everything legal. Do you in faster than the speed limit?, Do you have an Illegal cleaning lady paid cash?, Do you report all your income to the IRS?, and a long list which you cannot answer not guilty. How would you like them do it to you?!
31
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:56 AM Anonymous Says:
by the way for all you people the true story is that she was never arrested she came in for a court date and they made her do all this just incase she gets arrested
32
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:57 AM hasidic cop Says:
Anonymous Says:
An Arab women isnt visible she should have to push it back just to see her face. A frum women doesn't need to be seen without the wig cuz she wouldnt be outside without it. Thats the difference.
06-22-2008 - 12:34 AM
==============================================
But if she is on the run and she knows the authrities are after her what makes you think she wont consider removing her shaytil or put on a hat or change her appearance someway. The cops are aware that people who are on the run from the law are out to change thier apperance so they have to do this.
33
Jun 22, 2008 at 01:00 AM Anonymous Says:
Look, if you want to get the policy changed, get the policy changed.
I'm sure there are plenty in the Muslim community in New York who would join in.
But claiming that following a standard practice in arrest procedures (specifically, the mug shots with and without anything on your head) constitutes anti-semitism is insane. You end up alienating people who would agree with you, and shouting "anti-semitism" any time you don't like a result just guarantees that we end up ignored when we face real anti-semitism.
34
Jun 22, 2008 at 01:59 AM Anonymous Says:
MUST HAVE BEEN A CUSTOM HUMAN HAIR THAT THEY KNEW WHE WAS WEARING A WIG. MAYBE IT WAS A SHPITZLE!
35
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:01 AM Anonymous Says:
STOP JUSTIFYING GENAIVAH. IF SHE DID SOMETHING WRONG SHE MUST FOLLOW THE RULES!! WHY DOES EVERYTHING BECOME AN ANTI RELIGIOUS ISSUE?
36
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:04 AM MDN Says:
Chasidic Cop, are you Glauber, the divorced satmer gal who is becoming a Ramapo cop?
Is it true that told the Ramapo cops that it is ok for a male cop to handle a woman?
Monsey residents beware: we're getting a new self hating jewish bi'atch in town. She can shake hands with Tom Zugibe.
37
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:08 AM Anonymous Says:
Theres TWO separate issues here
1: Ramapo Police insensitivity
2: Frum ppl stealing tax $$
We all know how horribly anti-semitic the cops here are, and there is NO excuse for it. I've gotten pulled over for stupid things like a burnt out tail light and have gotten so much attitude from these horrible cops (read: pigs).
38
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:54 AM upstate Says:
Giving the officer the benefit of doubt, I would not yell anti-semite. Rather, like many policemen, it is an ego trip, to show you that they are in charge. Which also leads to many of them threatening to charge with not complying with an officer when you hesitate to do exactly what 'they' said.
An officer in a jewish community shoud be trained to respect different religions, EVEN if the person is a criminal. In the USA even convicted prisoners are allowed freedom of religion.
Above all I would beg you to remember that we are yidden, and we have a torah that guides us. leave the halachic implications of "if she steals, she does not have to cover her head", to the people who know the din. And leave the accusations of anti-semitism to those elected in our gvmnt.
Kol yisroel araivim ze... We are all responsible for each other. So, yes...we should stand behind this woman who was denied her freedom of religion. But.. show your support, and leave the accusing to those in office. Nothing will change by all the ranting and raving.
39
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:16 AM upstate Says:
Maybe it is time, that leading a life of a chasidic/litvish home should not cost an arm and a leg. A yiddishe family cannot live on the minimum income. Think tuition, pesach, tfillin,kosher food. Maybe it is time when parents should not have to choose moonlighting a second job, or faking the income for the desperately needed cash to just be able to provide the minimum for our kids.
Fraud and corruption is happening in very many huge corporations and even in gvt. agencies. The way some people write, you would think it is am exclusive yiddish thing. It is not!! What percent of Rockland County yidden are getting gvt. help? If you research it, you will realize that B"H most of us live independantly, working hard for our money and paying the very high taxes for the county and federal gvt. A 'small' percent have to reach out for gvt. assistance when they are not making ends meet.
40
Jun 22, 2008 at 06:47 AM Anonymous Says:
Upstate; A "small percentage"? I believe that roughly 80% of the "frum" living in New Square" earn @ poverty level.
41
Jun 22, 2008 at 08:41 AM Pinky's wife Says:
We do need to stand together with Muslims to protect our religious rights and freedoms.
Many times throughout history, Christian gov'ts first persecuted Muslims and then turned to Jews.
I get very upset when I see Jews passing around emails about Barack Obama being a secret Muslim etc. exacerbating Anti Semitism and shortening our stay in the US.
As a sheital wearing woman, I am sorry for this woman. It has happened to me twice, once when I registered to vote in FL and a second time entering a Shul of BH; the metal comb on my wig set off a metal detector. It terribly humiliating. but since having a baby, its hard to be embarrassed.
42
Jun 22, 2008 at 08:43 AM Anonymous Says:
Actually - since a wig can be changed or removed it makes no sense to take the photo without it. She was already identified with it on -- the worst case scenario is that she cjanged it to hide her appearance-- she could still do this so the bare headed photo could easily be rendered useless. I think every cop in monsey understands the significance of a frum womans wig. I cant believe this was anything nmore than an act of hatred. Perhaps brought on by what some say is a holier than though attitude of many nfrum jews. This attitude is also well known by many monsey cops mand must vcause alot of consternation. when we live in galus we must respect its laws.
43
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:12 AM Anonymous Says:
MDN how dare u mention any names to embarrace a yid & family shame on u and to VIN how do yo allow this & all of u having a geneiva problam show us your w2 & 1099 and everything u buy for your house & car 2show if u report everything
44
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:17 AM Anonymous Says:
I'M REALLY IN SHOCK THE WAY PEOPLE WRITE OVER HERE ALL THEIR OPINIONS BUT IF YOUR JEWISH YOU SHOULD BE DOING WHAT CHAZAL TELL US TO DO WHICH IS CALLED BEING DON LKAF ZECHUS WHAT I MEAN TO SAY IS THAT AFTER YOU WILL HEAR THE WHOLE TRUE STORY YOU WILL THINK A LITTLE DIFFERENT
THE STORY GOES AS FOLLOWS ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO THEY WERE CALLED IN ABOUT ALL THEIR INCOME AND IT CAME OUT THAT THEY OWED A FEW THOUSEND DOLLARS AND THEY CLAIMED THAT THEY DONT OWE THE MONEY FOR CERTAIN REASONS ANYWAYS ABOUT A WEEK AGO THE DA CAME TO THE HOUSE AND SAID SINCE THEY DIDNT PAY THE MONEY THE OWED THEY HAVE A "COURT DATE" WHICH WAS THURSDAY NOT "ARRESTED" ANY WAYS BY THE COURT THEY DECIDED THAT JUST INCASE THEY GET ARRESTED THEY MUST TAKE ALL THESE PICTURES SO AT THE TIME SHE REQESTED TO HAVE A FEMALE OFFICER TO HANDEL HER AND THAT SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO REMOVE HER WIG (YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO FOOD STAMP AND NO SECTION 8 AND SO ON)WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT STEALERS AND GANOVIM LIKE EVERYONE WROTE NOW WE ALL KNOW WHY WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS OUR CHAZAL TOUGHT US TO BE DON LKAF ZECHUS NOT TO JUST POST WHAT YOU HEAR AND WHAT YOU SEE.
45
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:29 AM hh Says:
The cop was able to see her widows peak which gave it away. Not very dificult to see.
46
Jun 22, 2008 at 10:08 AM Anonymous Says:
Once again everyone is missing the point. She is innocent until proven guilty, just as the police officer is, so DON'T use the excuse she is a felon, she is a criminal. That is a hypocritical argument to make. They are both yet not guilty, take the facts for the facts.
47
Jun 22, 2008 at 10:14 AM hasidic cop Says:
MDN Says:
Chasidic Cop, are you Glauber, the divorced satmer gal who is becoming a Ramapo cop?
Is it true that told the Ramapo cops that it is ok for a male cop to handle a woman?
Monsey residents beware: we're getting a new self hating jewish bi'atch in town. She can shake hands with Tom Zugibe.
06-22-2008 - 2:04 AM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Are you jelous of this glauber person that she is actually doing something substatial with her life rather then mooch off her parents and local government or are you upset that you tried hitting on her and she just ignored and that got you really MAD.
48
Jun 22, 2008 at 10:20 AM anon Says:
Mi kamcha yisroel!
we love to call police horrible things on the blogs when they wanna faingerprintr and fotograph frum woemn who do something bad enough to get arrested! mikamcha yisroel.
goys echod maaretz!
49
Jun 22, 2008 at 10:29 AM a Traveler Says:
If you think people are bad here you should read the over 200 comments that have been posted on lohud,com the Journal News website.
50
Jun 22, 2008 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:
I wish somebody would provide an accurate rendition of this case;
If this women was not arrested why was she booked / procesed?
If she was arrested what are the charges?
If there is an investigation in a wellfare case and the government claims they overpaid the recepient can go for a hearing. If the the government prevails they will allow repayment over time.
If the government alleges fraud, which seems to be the case here because the DA is involved, then charges are brought and the recepient gets arrested on specific charges.
There is no such thing as a booking in case we will want to arrest her at a later date.
51
Jun 22, 2008 at 11:16 AM PROUD SISTER Says:
She is not my sister because my sister does not steal from the government and does not wear a wig .
********************************************
SOUTH MONSEY - I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW MANY OF "YOUR SISTERS & BROTHERS" COME TO YOUR AID WHEN YOU ARE STRANDED ON THE HIGHWAY WITH A TIRE BLOW-OUT?
* OR COMES TO YOUR HOME AT 3am TO OPEN YOUR LOCKED DOOR?
*OR DRIVES YOU TO AND FROM YOUR HOME/HOSPITAL WHEN YOU ARE SICK?
*OR HAS A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN BORROW A CAR SEAT JUST FOR A DAY?
*OR ARE READY 24/7 TO COME TO YOUR HOME WITHIN SECONDS WHEN YOUR CHILD IS CHOKING?
P.S. YES, I GET ALL OF THESE SERVICEES, AND MORE, FOR FREE FROM MY DEVOTED "SISTERS & BROTHERS"! BUT SORRY, ONLY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO THEM...
52
Jun 22, 2008 at 11:21 AM thinking Says:
I understand that you regret the day you were informed that you were Jewish,
MDN, YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE MARK, BUT PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK THIS GUY IS JEWISH TO BEGIN WITH. I AM POSITIVE THAT THERE ARE PLENTY nisht fin inzere chevra THAT ARE POSTING HERE WITH ONE AIM: TO PLANT SINAH BETWEEN US, SINCE THEY KNOW THAT AS A UNITED FRONT KLAL YISROEL IS MUCH STRONGER.
BUT HEY, NOW THAT WE KNOW THEIR AIM, THEY CAN WASTE THEIR TIME POSTING BLOGS, SINCE EVERYONE KNOWS TO FILTER OUT THEIR COMMENTS. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR YIDDEN TO BLOG SOME STATEMENTS HERE...JUST NOT POSSIBLE!
53
Jun 22, 2008 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:
SOUTH MONSEY - I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW MANY OF "YOUR SISTERS & BROTHERS" COME TO YOUR AID WHEN YOU ARE STRANDED ON THE HIGHWAY WITH A TIRE BLOW-OUT?
* OR COMES TO YOUR HOME AT 3am TO OPEN YOUR LOCKED DOOR?
*OR DRIVES YOU TO AND FROM YOUR HOME/HOSPITAL WHEN YOU ARE SICK?
*OR HAS A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN BORROW A CAR SEAT JUST FOR A DAY?
*OR ARE READY 24/7 TO COME TO YOUR HOME WITHIN SECONDS WHEN YOUR CHILD IS CHOKING?
P.S. YES, I GET ALL OF THESE SERVICEES, AND MORE, FOR FREE FROM MY DEVOTED "SISTERS & BROTHERS"! BUT SORRY, ONLY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO THEM...
===============================================
A++++++ K'Ish Echod B'Lev Echod!!!!!
54
Jun 22, 2008 at 11:36 AM hasidic cop Says:
SOUTH MONSEY - I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW MANY OF "YOUR SISTERS & BROTHERS" COME TO YOUR AID WHEN YOU ARE STRANDED ON THE HIGHWAY WITH A TIRE BLOW-OUT?
* OR COMES TO YOUR HOME AT 3am TO OPEN YOUR LOCKED DOOR?
*OR DRIVES YOU TO AND FROM YOUR HOME/HOSPITAL WHEN YOU ARE SICK?
*OR HAS A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN BORROW A CAR SEAT JUST FOR A DAY?
*OR ARE READY 24/7 TO COME TO YOUR HOME WITHIN SECONDS WHEN YOUR CHILD IS CHOKING?
P.S. YES, I GET ALL OF THESE SERVICEES, AND MORE, FOR FREE FROM MY DEVOTED "SISTERS & BROTHERS"! BUT SORRY, ONLY FAMILY MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO THEM...
06-22-2008 - 11:16 AM
----------------------------------------
my sisters and brothers are not hogging ganovin and cheaters.
If you want to put hatzoloh ,bikur cholim , chaverim and shomrim in the same catagory as this couple that defrauded the welfare system then go ahead . Honestly i dont see why you would. Dont associate erliche people with so call FRUM people . What is your point precisely?
55
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:03 PM thinking Says:
my sisters and brothers are not hogging ganovin and cheaters.
Hasidic Cop, I am starting to think that you are just that - a hasidic cop. You speak as if you sit in the police station all day and only frum chasidishe criminals are bought in 24/7. They are hogging ganovin and cheaters. All of them...
Now, if you are toke a cop, I always wondered how much do cops make a year???
56
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:08 PM A Jewish Cop Says:
A)There is no such thing as being fingerprinted and photographed aka "processed" prior to being charged. If you have been fingerprinted and photographed you have been charged with a crime.
B) According to information released by the District Attorneys office, she was charged with Welfare fraud 1st degree which constitutes intentionally making fraudulent claims and receiving over a million dollars as a result. It is a class B FELONY which means that upon conviction it is punishable by up to 25 years in state prison plus very large fines.
C) The ignorance displayed by certain people on the thread is a disservice to the frum community. Instead of working together to solve problems you just seek out people to blame. ie the cops, district attorney, politicians and other "anti semites". Instead of going public with this story and turning it into a national joke, the community would have been better served by dealing with this privately with the administration of the Ramapo PD. When the average Joe sees this story what do you think he takes away from it? That the cops violated an arrestees civil rights or do they say "Oh look, the Jews are at it again"!
D) Just for the record, I do not work for the Ramapo Police Department and my comments and opinions are solely mine and no reflection on the agency that I work for.
57
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:
south monsey res. Says:
Anonymous Says:
Come on guys!!! THis is your sister they're talking about!!! Some compassion!!!
06-21-2008 - 11:01 PM
==============================================
She is not my sister because my sister does not steal from the government and does not wear a wig . Stop with the cover ups and face the fact that she is totally guilty and does not deserve to be treated with white gloves. Arab women have to remove thier head coverings when they are arrested and so does a so called frum women.
06-21-2008 - 11:19 PM
to address she is not my sister al tun as chevero ad schetagiya lemikomo maybe if you treated her like a sister and gave her a job or tzedoka she wouldnt have fallen to stoop to do this PROBLEM WITH YOU IS YOU DIDNT TREAT HER AS A SISTER WHEN SHE WAS GOING THRU HER HARD TIME ITS VERY POSSIBLE YOU ARE THE ONE AT FAULT HERE NOT TAKING ANOTHER PERSONS SITUATION TO HEART AS ONE SHOULD FOR A SISTER but afer reading the papers you come out swinging against her shame on you
the least you can do is be quiet and not comment
at all !!
58
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:38 PM Anonymous Says:
I have a problem with the police being stationed on private property at the Good Year service station on the corner of Rt.59 and Main st. staking out primarily frum yidden on Rt.59
59
Jun 22, 2008 at 01:08 PM a cop Says:
Anonymous Says:
I have a problem with the police being stationed on private property at the Good Year service station on the corner of Rt.59 and Main st. staking out primarily frum yidden on Rt.59
06-22-2008 - 12:38 PM
===========================================
Dont spped or make illegal moves and u turns and u wont be stopped
60
Jun 22, 2008 at 01:23 PM living with patience Says:
If you have a problem, just remember we are in Golus. When many of us start feeling so comfortable and forget, Hashem sends us reminders. So when we drive, let's just follow the laws and rules and no one will stop you.
So let's review the laws of when to STOP, no cell phone talking, no beeping(have patience), use of seat belts and car seats, children in back and remember it's better to be patient than "Dead Right" or an Ober Chucham(Chacham) or so called wise guy. If they were asked to take off their head gear, a possible cover up was obvious!
61
Jun 22, 2008 at 01:40 PM Anonymous Says:
To the two last commenter's you totally missed the point. I wasn't trying to say that it should be okay to disregard the traffic laws. The point I was trying to make is the Police is abusing their and our rights by stationing their patrol cars on private property which is not legal.
62
Jun 22, 2008 at 01:51 PM "Another" Jewish Cop Says Says:
re A Jewish Cop Says:
comments - arrow A)There is no such thing as being fingerprinted and photographed aka "processed" prior to being charged. If you have been fingerprinted and photographed you have been charged with a crime.
B) According to information released by the District Attorneys office, she was charged with Welfare fraud 1st degree which constitutes intentionally making fraudulent claims and receiving over a million dollars as a result. It is a class B FELONY which means that upon conviction it is punishable by up to 25 years in state prison plus very large fines.
C) The ignorance displayed by certain people on the thread is a disservice to the frum community. Instead of working together to solve problems you just seek out people to blame. ie the cops, district attorney, politicians and other "anti semites". Instead of going public with this story and turning it into a national joke, the community would have been better served by dealing with this privately with the administration of the Ramapo PD. When the average Joe sees this story what do you think he takes away from it? That the cops violated an arrestees civil rights or do they say "Oh look, the Jews are at it again"!
D) Just for the record, I do not work for the Ramapo Police Department and my comments and opinions are solely mine and no reflection on the agency that I work for.
No one will rebut your statements because your statements are on the money.
63
Jun 22, 2008 at 01:56 PM "Another" Jewish Cop Says Says:
Everyone is an attorney these days. Anonymous Says:
comments - arrow To the two last commenter's you totally missed the point. I wasn't trying to say that it should be okay to disregard the traffic laws. The point I was trying to make is the Police is abusing their and our rights by stationing their patrol cars on private property which is not legal.
Where did you ever here this? Can you site the statute that makes it illegal to station a patrol car on private property? Try this on for size. A Police Officer is always licensed and privileged to enter private property, (not to be confused with executing a search warrant etc...).
Armchair attorneys.
64
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:26 PM moishe kapoyer Says:
maybe the cop didnt think she was jewish if she was commiting a crime and was using her "shaitel" as a cover up (no pun intented)?
65
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:32 PM Anonymous Says:
Armchair attorney,
LOL! Police officers are not licensed to tresppass.
66
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:35 PM living with patience Says:
The cops may have received a tip in regard to the couple. This may have been someone who really knows them and their route. Yes, i don't disagree with the cops at times being bias but at times there are those that are trying to do their job.
67
Jun 22, 2008 at 02:45 PM Anonymous Says:
She pocketed $8,400 in excess benefits.
68
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:06 PM Anonymous Says:
The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution places limits on the power of the police to make arrests, search people and their property, and seize objects and contraband (such as illegal drugs or weapons). These limits are the bedrock of search and seizure law. And reads as follows:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
69
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:08 PM anonomyous Says:
Anonymous Says:
comments - arrow Armchair attorney,
LOL! Police officers are not licensed to tresppass.
06-22-2008 - 2:32 PM
Go look at the legal definition of Trespass wannabe
70
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:10 PM anonomyous Says:
re the 4th amendment....what's your point?
71
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:10 PM M.P. Says:
In an interview with the police chief Brower (on Kol Monsey hotline) he agrees that the woman was mistreated.
At the airport you might be strip searched, but if you believe you were singled out wrongly - you might have a law suit on your hand.
True the police didn't brake any law, but this is evidence of the ever growing tension between the communities.
Anyone who is involved in the Monsey community knows that the attitude from the DA's office towards our community has changed drastically since the new DA Zugibe has gotten into the office. He is angry at the community because they didn't vote for him.
72
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:41 PM Flip Flops. Says:
Ramapo Police has done ALOT to satisfy the Jewish community here, Yet no one seems to realize.
When a Jewish boy gets arrested for stealing from a pushka, He would normally get arrested, Charged, Locked up in a holding cell overnight or till a judge can see him...And then sentenced to juvy or community service, Yet time and time again we have seen Ramapo police officers approach local rabanim first before locking up a boy, Or set him up with a Youth at Risk program before sending him to juvy.
That would never happen in the Bronx.
Officer Johnathan Quinn (The Accused) is a friend of mine, I have seen the way he treats people and I have seen the way he serves and protects - I gotta say he is a Model Officer. I'm surprised he hasn't been promoted yet.
Those of you that say that Ramapo Cops are a bunch of anti-Semites; why?
Because they arrested a criminal? Because they pulled you over for passing a school bus? Or because you cant live down the fact that you live in a country that you cant call your own.
Most Monsey residents take advantage of the freedom they are given (Myself included, and it bothers me to see that hard working people suffer the consequences.
I can start listing 100's of occasions where ramapo police went above and beyond their normal scope of duty to help a money resident, yet all they get in return is a bunch of nasty and disrespectful comments.
Andrew Dale may have or may have done things he shouldn't have - But he hasn't been found guilty of anything. But he has done ALOT of good for the community and everyone knows that.
St. Lawrence - Always was a good freind of the jewish Community.
Jon Quinn - He never did anything wrong.
I will never understand how a Community of Jewish people "The Chosen Nation" can cause so much chaos and destruction.
Did you ever ask yourself how many of your neighbors don't pay taxes?
Yet you manage to discriminate against everyone including your own.
You all bring shame to Jews & Americans.
73
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:47 PM Pinky's wife Says:
Does anyone know if these people are Jewish?
It is hard to forget the case of the Lakewood Ger, but he is not the first person to put on a Purim costume and hide out in the frum community.
74
Jun 22, 2008 at 03:54 PM Milhouse Says:
"hasidic cop" and "s monsey resident", she's your sister whether you like it or not - and the cop is not your brother. And that is the key point that you are missing. You owe her the benefit of the doubt, and you do NOT owe it to him. When you reverse that, when you presume his innocence and her guilt, you do more than a simple wrong - you commit treason against Am Yisroel.
75
Jun 22, 2008 at 04:00 PM Monseyer Says:
In the Bronx - when a police officer orders to remove fake braids or any other "hood" article, you have sharpton and the likes protesting and closing streets. We have a different relationship with the police.
Jonathan Quinn - knew that he was violating this woman by forcing her to remove her headgear.
76
Jun 22, 2008 at 04:03 PM Monsey Hatzoloh member Says:
Let me add my 2 cent:
From one side I am an appreciative member, who understands to value the privileges we enjoyed all these years in the Town of Ramapo, and their, and the Police Dept. sensitivity to the Orthodox community.
From the other side: I see trends which are worrying me. For example:
As a member in Hatzoloh of Rockland, I am appalled at the way certain officers will SHOUT at us, volunteers, and on spectators, and you can see the hatred in their eyes. Many times that is the first thing they do when arriving an accident scene, and I can understand they feel intimidated standing amongst so many people who don’t talk their language and act foreign.
If I was Spring Hill Ambulance, or Fire Dept. do you think the rookie officer would start SCREAMING “You guys gotta move ALL of your vehicles out of the way”! When we are told and make sure not to block traffic as much as possible, AND the scene is very unsafe, with two injured, smashed cars, glass and rubble all over, and huge buses trying to push through; ignoring the danger they cause/ The Police will anyways block the street when they show up, but should a Private Hatzoloh First Responder dare block the street for traffic, or not even block it (the st. will anyways be shut soon) they will get it over the head, with the officers demanding “the Hazolohs” to move their cars. (while the street is now blocked in any case…)
I am not charging anti-Semitism, and as a Yid in exile I truly appreciate any kind of freedom we receive here. This is just a good observation which tells me how much compassion and love some officers have. (It is the way they do it…!)
And for all you Hatzoloh haters who will yell at me; How many times did you see a Private Vol. FF with a blue light, blocking off a street, and when did you see Hatzoloh doing it? Hatzoloh doesn’t, because they know how much that puts PD in rage; while in ANY other urban Vol Ambulance corp in the USA, it would be expected for the volunteers to work closely together with the Police.
But I am not complaining, and most of the officers I personally came across are and try to be very nice and they go a long way to give in for this communities downsides… (Yes, we have them!)
77
Jun 22, 2008 at 04:14 PM Monsey Hatzoloh member Says:
Let's remember that the Police and Town officials are reading very carefully this blogs.
The new DA would not have won if not for the support of New Square and other Jewish communities. The outgoing DA was MAD at the orthodox Jews.
Many askanim kept warning us that we were doing ok with the republican DA and should not change. But others thought they know better.
The current DA wants to show to the non Jewish voters, that he does not kiss the t.... of the hassidic communities, so he has it easier with them by the elections. He believes that until the elections he will make nice with the Hassidics with some grants... He forgets that the Hassidim usually have a very good memmory, and without their support, it is very unusual for any politician to win a Town or even County race these days.
It used to be that the DSS handled directly with fraud cases, and made them pay back etc. Now the DA insists on going criminal with it, while violant Crime in other areas in this county is moving upwards...
78
Jun 22, 2008 at 04:35 PM Annony Says:
Why is it that we are so carefull to wear a sheitel wear a yarlmuka (Yireh Malchus)but not carefull regarding chilul Hashem.
79
Jun 22, 2008 at 04:53 PM Monseyer Says:
New square voted for Zugibe for one reason - Client #9.
Never trade a good relationship with a promise.
80
Jun 22, 2008 at 05:56 PM Anonymous Says:
As a frum Shaitel wearing woman I am really upset for this woman. What nobody mentioned here is that hair is Ervah and for an unmarried woman to uncover her hair in front of a man is JUST LIKE her uncovering her breasts or other parts of her body which must remain covered. They should have had a female officer process her. Should a male officer strip search a woman NO! Same problem here.
81
Jun 22, 2008 at 06:01 PM MDN Says:
Oh shrek you people are really getting into this.
Let's get a few things streight:
You will always have thhe nicest law abiding citzens in a community and you will always have people taking advantage of the system. But let's get a reality check of THIS incident.
#1 The officer should have been sensitive, regardless of her aleged crime, to the fact that orthodox women would rather be touched by a female cop. Thhe whole removing of the sheitel makes little sense too becuase it is a mere replacement of the real her she had uptil her "harei aat mekideshes" This is not a muslim full face burka.
#2 The new DA, Tom Zugibe, is serving now about 100 monsey residents with "crime" for cases of mild social services fraud, such as not reporting a single check. There is a big difference between going after those with melicious intent to defraud the government with millions, or those who have phony non-profits and are not paying taxes for the past 20 years, than a heimishe family with 10 kids, where both parants work hard and they lie about their income because they want medicaid. After all, social services asks you only how much you make, not how much you spend for tuition for your 10 kids. I'm saying it's right, all i'm saying is that Zugibe is going in the footsteps of elliot spitzer and in smells bad
82
Jun 22, 2008 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:
As an askan for many years on behalf of the jewish community let me point out some points to all of you attacking the police department etc.
We all have to be grateful that we live in a free country a true medina shel chesed. In other countries you wouldn't even be permitted to wear a sheitel without commiting a crime, you wouldn't be able to daven 3 times a day etc. Forget about a police officer apologize to a jew. We are really spoiled and sometimes even if a officer did something wrong we really overdo it. We have to know that our method is kol kol yakkov, to take law into our own hands will do no good, but worse. We need to leave it in the hands of the officials and askonim to do what they have to, and everything will be just fine.Stop knowing it all and know that we live in a democracy.
Thanks,
Community Leader.
83
Jun 22, 2008 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:
You're wrong! there is NO ISSUR WHAT SO EVER to uncover yout hair in front of another man, as long as your not in a reshus hurabbim.
I only feel sorry for her if she shaves, she mustve looked like a freak
84
Jun 22, 2008 at 07:06 PM Monseyer Says:
I know it all, you don't, leave it me!
Oy asskonim!
85
Jun 22, 2008 at 07:16 PM Anonymous Says:
Askan-You're the problem because of all you so called askanim do we have all this with the officials, you always do what's better for you, not for the klal. The police always do everything totally justified for you askanim, or else you'll lose your connections and power. come on you're all worth your money. You just be quiet and don't talk for the community without being asked to.
A citizen proud to live in a free country where we can "elect" our officials.
86
Jun 22, 2008 at 07:50 PM Anonymous Says:
I feel really bad for this woman. Was she not within her rights to ask for a female cop to "process her" and take her picture? Any cop with the least sensitivity should have agreed to her request. Surely the ramapo police force should have known that she would feel extremely uncomfortable to remove her sheitl. Could someone explain this lack of sensitivity?
87
Jun 22, 2008 at 07:57 PM ASKAN Says:
Some askonim met with the DA's office to negotiate on the behalf of these families and Zugibe refused.
When there are discrepancies between social services and the IRS, usually one would payback for the services and sometimes even a penalty is added. Unless conspiracy is suspected they will always negotiate.
Arresting a mother of kids and being roughed around by a male cop is no way to be treated in a free country.
88
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:01 PM not like you creeps Says:
first of all i want to know which of you conceited creeps eduacate their children to hate or show disrespect to poilce officers
it must be all you chasidim who are so frum but yet so screwed up
can ask you a question do you think the poilce do their job
what else do you idoits want More and MORE special treatment
yea i know the Chosen ppl but face it honey child we are in galus so we aint gettin no specai treatment
and for all you creeps who show no respect
dont worry one day it will get through your part of your heads that you call brains and u may realize that you are wrong
how about look at it from an officers viewpoint
they protect the jewish community and all they get is a mouthfull
and for those thickheads out there who dont know what im saying
what the heck happened on lag baomer
when all the animals at a certain chassidic yehivah
surrounded a cop becasue he was trying to protect their saftey against makiing unsafe fires
why the heck would a guy like that want to be even a liitle nie to the jews if this is the way they act?!!!!?!!??!
Next:for all you loosers out there
get ya self a reality check before you comment
because chances are that half of you are dumber then doorknobs
89
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:03 PM esty Says:
they should have given her to a women cop
she should have checcked her wig and then pic her
90
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:39 PM anonymous Says:
Sorry Creeps - 9:01,
Can't understand a word you wrote...
Something about somebody is screwed up - but why would you be describing yourself in a post???
91
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:56 PM Anonymous Says:
All the askanim should just shut up no one is interested with what they have to say. Sometimes you guys are even worse than the goyshe officials because you gotta show that your a man. We need someone that means it lshem shamayim and not for his pride, not a macher thats here to be a big-shot and fly around with lights and siren.
92
Jun 22, 2008 at 09:58 PM upstate Says:
Sorry creeps 9:01,
What are you freakin out about? YOU should get a reality check. And why are we ALL losers? I think you are one of those who regret that they were born jewish.
Stop ranting and ti tzi de zach, If you saw an injustice done on Lag B'omar, why didn't you make sure to stop it? Oh, I forgot, you don't like chasidim, and are happy when there is a chilul hashem.
GET A LIFE!!!!
93
Jun 22, 2008 at 10:02 PM anony Says:
6:49,
Why like a freak? You gotta see the Oscar ceremony once. Bald and beautiful screen stars.
94
Jun 22, 2008 at 10:33 PM Anonymous Says:
Like a freak, How dare You. This is there Minhag it has been in thier families for generations and generations. The reason for this is that the hair should not be a chaziza when doing a tahara. Not everyone is on the madrayga to do this today but kudos to those women that choose not to break the chain for thier mothers and grandmothers and it makes her all the more beautiful.
95
Jun 22, 2008 at 11:39 PM a cop Says:
Anonymous Says:
Like a freak, How dare You. This is there Minhag it has been in thier families for generations and generations. The reason for this is that the hair should not be a chaziza when doing a tahara. Not everyone is on the madrayga to do this today but kudos to those women that choose not to break the chain for thier mothers and grandmothers and it makes her all the more beautiful.
06-22-2008 - 10:33 PM
==============================================
was it also a minhag that was handed down from mother to daughter to steal from the government and tax payers? you are running a double standard here.
96
Jun 22, 2008 at 11:40 PM MDN Says:
Dear askan, what you said is something I should say, not you. Your job is to stick up for us even when we say Let It Be. Number Two, if not for you and your buddies we would not have this conversation. Tom Zugibe would never have been elected if not for you. Now dozens of heinishe families have been processed. Is that also ok? Nowhere in the country are discrepencies in social services a criminal matter except for in Rockland where Shpit2r of New Square got us a new sweetheart of a DA. Oy askunim. If not for you and the rabunim we would be able to erase "coruption" from our dictionary
97
Jun 22, 2008 at 11:57 PM anonymous Says:
maybe if many of those in the chasidishe ( " heimishe") community would not act " beheimishe " and like vilde chayis on the road and show some respect to other people - yes even goyim- especially police officers who serve and protect, maybe just maybe there would be more cooperation with the police. If you do something unlawful on the road and an officer tickets you, don't get mad at the officer- just accept it and don't do it again. We have to learn to respect laws and to BEHAVE.
98
Jun 23, 2008 at 01:11 AM Anonymous Says:
It always ends up being about the wig.
Did this lady have bugs in her wig that made her steal?
Was the lady who STOLE money drinking bug water?
Why has this blog become about who wears wigs and who does not. Maybe we should have a poll who wears their wogs the longest. We have some husbands claiming their wves wear it 24/7.
We are real proud of the people who wear wigs and do not steal while wearing a wig.
99
Jun 23, 2008 at 01:30 AM Anongirl Says:
I feel terrible that she was forced to remove her wig. What a rachmunus. I also believe in innocent till proven guilty and I wish her the best. That being said, let's work on ourselves to learn all halachas and ask sheilos so that no one will be in such a position and give tzedaka so that we can help people make ends meet.
100
Jun 23, 2008 at 03:26 AM Charlie Hall Says:
"That would never happen in the Bronx. "
I've never heard of a Jewish kid stealing from a pushka in the Bronx. But we have great relations with the NYPD thanks to the efforts of our community leaders and the willingness of the police to serve the entire community, including the tiny minority that is Jewish today.
101
Jun 23, 2008 at 02:26 PM Anonymous Says:
I grew up in Monsey and frankly we had a great relationship with the cops. They would sit in the park doing their paperwork and all the kids would bug them to turn on the lights and sirens and show them his gun. The cops knew most of the kids in the neighborhood (and even remembered us when we got our first traffic tickets). There should be no doubt that the Orthodox community has respect for the Police Officers who protect us very well.
102
Jun 23, 2008 at 04:19 PM MDN Says:
That was 20 years ago when you grew up, today the rookie cops are anxious to do crime busting, and when they cant find it they make it up
103
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