Monsey, NY – PBA: Officer Didn’t Violate Any Laws By Asking Woman To Remove Her Wig, DA: Respect Religious Beliefs

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    Monsey, NY – While the town supervisor yesterday sharply criticized a police officer for fingerprinting a Hasidic Jewish woman and ordering her to remove her wig for a mug shot following her arrest.

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    Ramapo union officials criticized St. Lawrence for his comments and defended the actions of the officer, whom St. Lawrence identified as Jonathan Quinn.

    Police Benevolent Association President Dennis Procter said the officer didn’t violate any laws or department procedures.

    “The officer acted with the utmost professionalism and treated the arrested individual in the same manner any person would have been treated during the arrest processing,” Procter said.

    Police Chief Peter Brower declined to comment yesterday on the incident or the supervisor’s criticism of the officer.

    The standard procedure for police is to ask people arrested to remove a wig, turban, veil or any other head gear for a mug shot. A person arrested is under the authority of the police.

    For example, Clarkstown Police Chief Peter Noonan said his officers could take photos of the suspect with a wig and without it.

    And the officer would take a person’s fingerprints, but might seek a legal opinion if a religious issue was raised.

    “The objective of the photograph is to identify the person,” Noonan said. “You want to know what the person looks like with or without the wig.”

    Police departments and other law enforcement authorities have procedures that take into account a person’s religious beliefs. The Rockland Medical Examiner’s Office, for example, has procedures concerning autopsies, given that autopsies are prohibited in some religions.

    St. Lawrence said District Attorney Thomas Zugibe told him the photograph of the woman would be expunged and a new photo taken at a future date.

    Zugibe said Ramapo officers processed the arrests of town residents for the investigation.

    “I haven’t seen any pattern reflective of insensitivity by the Ramapo Police Department,” Zugibe said.

    Zugibe said he understood the consternation of the religious community.

    “In Rockland, we live in a very religious and culturally diverse community,” Zugibe said. “We must be sensitive to the religious beliefs of people.”

    Ramapo police prepared for a protest yesterday based on rumblings within the community and phone calls to the media.

    Officers put up sawhorses to cordon off an area for protesters in the police station’s back parking lot.

    While no protest materialized, Detective Lt. Brad Weidel said the police respect people’s right to protest peacefully. He said other rumors were a protest might come tomorrow.

    “If people want to protest at the police headquarters, they certainly have a right to, as long as they follow the rules,” Weidel said.

    Zugibe said details of the investigation and those arrested would be revealed on Monday.


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    103 Comments
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    i understand :)
    i understand :)
    15 years ago

    can anybody clarify “WHY” she was aressted?

    jj
    jj
    15 years ago

    i knew this all along. If a arab women was to make a fuss about her head gear you guys would think she is crazy right? a frum women with a wig is no diffrence

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    was arrested for welfare fraud

    Ding Dong
    Ding Dong
    15 years ago

    FOX NEWS REPORTING THAT SHE WAS ARRESTED FOR FRAUD.

    If this “frum” lady was so embarrassed she should have complied and shut up. The more this lady was ranting at the scene and at the station house the more attention the story recieved and now the entire media outlets across the nation is talking about this case.

    ilk
    ilk
    15 years ago

    A criminal does not deserve benefit of the doubt.

    Renegade
    Renegade
    15 years ago

    “If a arab women was to make a fuss about her head gear you guys would think she is crazy right? a frum women with a wig is no diffrence”

    that is the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while. An arabs head gear covers her face, you can’t take a mug shot with the face covered.

    a wig only covers the hair -the easiest part of the body to change. (you can cut it, die it, grow it longer or even wear a different color wig!)

    There is no good reason to need to take off the wig for a mug shot.

    Klipper
    Klipper
    15 years ago

    We have to protect her religiuos beliefs? If this lady is so religious or “frum” why was she stealing to begin with?

    Don’t we love how people get in the religious debate when they get caught breaking the law?

    It would be nice if VIN would go one week without a jew being in the news for making a chilul hashem.

    Shvua tov.

    monsey resident
    monsey resident
    15 years ago

    This happened because hashem is showing her mida kneged mida. You dont care about the laws of the land and the laws of shulchan aruch about stealing . Why wear a wig when you dont even keep the basic laws of of a jew.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Come on guys!!! THis is your sister they’re talking about!!! Some compassion!!!

    south monsey res.
    south monsey res.
    15 years ago

    Anonymous Says:

    Come on guys!!! THis is your sister they’re talking about!!! Some compassion!!!

    06-21-2008 – 11:01 PM

    ==============================================

    She is not my sister because my sister does not steal from the government and does not wear a wig . Stop with the cover ups and face the fact that she is totally guilty and does not deserve to be treated with white gloves. Arab women have to remove thier head coverings when they are arrested and so does a so called frum women.

    Applepie
    Applepie
    15 years ago

    Why direct the hatred inward?

    MDN
    MDN
    15 years ago

    South Monsey, I have a question: Arabic women wear burkas covering their faces, our women wear wigs that simply replace their original hair. I understand that you are from a better cut and your wife wears no wig; I understand that you regret the day you were informed that you were Jewish, but from a Justice perspective, why when a lady has her own hair she needs not take a hair cut for the mug shot but if her hair is in the form of a wig she does? The answer is that she does not! The only time you are required to take of your wig for a mug shot is if you are a transexual freak and you are thereby disguising your true appearance.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Actually, baseball caps, hats, and glsasses(!!!) are taken off for mug shots.

    When our criminals (yes, she steal our tax dollars) ask for special consideration, don’t you all think that it might make anti semaites out of officers who are not yet?

    Also, by the way, speak to your own local rabbi, but it may not even be an issur to uncover the hair if the police officer is a goy, because there is no “lifnei eever”

    s. monsey
    s. monsey
    15 years ago

    MDN Says:

    South Monsey, I have a question: Arabic women wear burkas covering their faces, our women wear wigs that simply replace their original hair. I understand that you are from a better cut and your wife wears no wig; I understand that you regret the day you were informed that you were Jewish, but from a Justice perspective, why when a lady has her own hair she needs not take a hair cut for the mug shot but if her hair is in the form of a wig she does? The answer is that she does not! The only time you are required to take of your wig for a mug shot is if you are a transexual freak and you are thereby disguising your true appearance.

    06-21-2008 – 11:32 PM

    ============================================

    Let me ask you something . Does your wife wear a wig 24/7? Honest answer here.

    MDN
    MDN
    15 years ago

    My wife actually never wears a wig but I am no self-hating Jew

    bigwheeel
    bigwheeel
    15 years ago

    JJ & South Monsey Res. et al… The situation happened where an Arab woman applied for her driver’s license and was asked to remove her “Hijab”? (headdress?) and she refused! The ruling, subsequently came down that she does not have to remove the Hijab! there you have it, self-conscious [and self-hating] Jews,… if at all…!!!

    hasidic cop
    hasidic cop
    15 years ago

    bigwheeel Says:

    JJ & South Monsey Res. et al… The situation happened where an Arab woman applied for her driver’s license and was asked to remove her “Hijab”? (headdress?) and she refused! The ruling, subsequently came down that she does not have to remove the Hijab! there you have it, self-conscious [and self-hating] Jews,… if at all…!!!

    06-21-2008 – 11:51 PM

    ==========================================

    Use your brains for a change . A license photo is not a mug shot . Mug shots are way different and have different status.

    Anon K
    Anon K
    15 years ago

    For all you self hating jews. Why is she guilty of anything when the law that all of you are quoting says that a person shal be inocent until proven guilty. You and I don’t know if she stole anything. This whole thing could be a big mistake and all of you losers will get the “mida k’neged mida”.

    Btw: the last time I learned “shilcon orech” the “halacha” is that if a jew (OBEYING JEWISH HALACHA) falls into a hole you must take’em out and not allowed to push’em into a hole (“MAHLIN V’LOI MOREEDIN”) even if that person didn’t obey the “dina d’malchise”. This woman still should be treated like any other jew, regardless if you like it or not.

    Chamor
    Chamor
    15 years ago

    innocent till prooven guilty. she is lucky she wasn’t strip searched by some male officers. i would have advised her to shush up

    NJ boy
    NJ boy
    15 years ago

    Why is everyone treating this lady as if she has been tried and convicted? What happened to dan lichaf schus? Even in our secular courts one is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt! The officers in Monsey area should be forced to take special sensitivity training to know how to deal with Frum Yidden. That is no more than the police have to do in Muslim areas.

    NJ boy
    NJ boy
    15 years ago

    To Hassidic Cop: is that you Shlomo?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    ‘The officers in Monsey area should be forced to take special sensitivity training to know how to deal with Frum Yidden’

    Yea, then maybe they should also have to pass an Anti Semite test before being hired as well! Come on! You know that would never happen todays’ days!!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    a wig doesn’t change the look of a FACE!! On my passport I’m wearing a different wig & different glasses. I’m also 10 years older now. No one has ever questioned it. I don’t get this wig off business.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    The law is clear on this issue. Normaly a wig is removed for a mug shot but it is not required to be removed. Obviously the point is picture the defendant in thier most natural state. The officer was within his legal right to demand that the woman take off her wig. That is not the point. The officers in Monsey must be sensitive to the particulars of the community they patrol. For this officer to show such a degree of insensitivity to require a frum chasidishe woman to take off her wig is truly appaling and an outrage. Hopfully, it is only that he is stupid. Furthermore, last I check the law presumes one innocent until proven otherwise. Even so, anyone who justifies this officers act by equating the violation of a criminal law with the automatic loss of religous freedoms and rights has no concept or appreciation of American civil liberties.

    hasidic cop
    hasidic cop
    15 years ago

    Anonymous Says:

    ‘The officers in Monsey area should be forced to take special sensitivity training to know how to deal with Frum Yidden’

    Yea, then maybe they should also have to pass an Anti Semite test before being hired as well! Come on! You know that would never happen todays’ days!!!

    06-22-2008 – 12:20 AM

    ===========================================

    and maybe they should give traing to chassanim and kallas how not to steal from the government.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    An Arab women isnt visible she should have to push it back just to see her face. A frum women doesn’t need to be seen without the wig cuz she wouldnt be outside without it. Thats the difference.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Just to give the cops more leniency, they can say that if this women is a criminal, then who knows if she wouldn’t just go take off her wig to disguise herself (which does make a person look different, obviously). But since they do work among the Jewish Community, I think they should’ve been a little more cleared up on this issue, and NOT make her remove her wig. My personal opinion- They’re real Anti Semites!!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    hasidic cop unfortunatly does have a point. The haimish oilam has no concept of the severity of violating criminal laws. More importantly, why are we stealing….. Before we figure out the why there will be no remedies

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Nu? Not getting special treatment makes you say they are anti-semites?

    If they take the wigs, glasses, hats, hijabs, etc, off of everyone when they take a mug shot, then they take them off of everyone.

    If they take them off of Yidden, that just means, surprise, we’re treated like everyone else. You know, the opposite of anti-semitism.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    To all self hating jews:

    I am a jewish law abiding citizen, and the officer should do according to law, but a law is made to bend. It is no must to remove a wig for a mug shot and the cop should know that religious women are uncomfortable removing it and should know not to request it to be removed. Perhaps that is the reason they apologized.

    And regarding the law breaking things she did. #1 , Two wrongs don’t make one right, if she did something wrong she doesn’t have to be barred from her rights #2 , I would like to know if you guys do everything legal. Do you in faster than the speed limit?, Do you have an Illegal cleaning lady paid cash?, Do you report all your income to the IRS?, and a long list which you cannot answer not guilty. How would you like them do it to you?!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    by the way for all you people the true story is that she was never arrested she came in for a court date and they made her do all this just incase she gets arrested

    hasidic cop
    hasidic cop
    15 years ago

    Anonymous Says:

    An Arab women isnt visible she should have to push it back just to see her face. A frum women doesn’t need to be seen without the wig cuz she wouldnt be outside without it. Thats the difference.

    06-22-2008 – 12:34 AM

    ==============================================

    But if she is on the run and she knows the authrities are after her what makes you think she wont consider removing her shaytil or put on a hat or change her appearance someway. The cops are aware that people who are on the run from the law are out to change thier apperance so they have to do this.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Look, if you want to get the policy changed, get the policy changed.

    I’m sure there are plenty in the Muslim community in New York who would join in.

    But claiming that following a standard practice in arrest procedures (specifically, the mug shots with and without anything on your head) constitutes anti-semitism is insane. You end up alienating people who would agree with you, and shouting “anti-semitism” any time you don’t like a result just guarantees that we end up ignored when we face real anti-semitism.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    MUST HAVE BEEN A CUSTOM HUMAN HAIR THAT THEY KNEW WHE WAS WEARING A WIG. MAYBE IT WAS A SHPITZLE!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    STOP JUSTIFYING GENAIVAH. IF SHE DID SOMETHING WRONG SHE MUST FOLLOW THE RULES!! WHY DOES EVERYTHING BECOME AN ANTI RELIGIOUS ISSUE?

    MDN
    MDN
    15 years ago

    Chasidic Cop, are you Glauber, the divorced satmer gal who is becoming a Ramapo cop?

    Is it true that told the Ramapo cops that it is ok for a male cop to handle a woman?

    Monsey residents beware: we’re getting a new self hating jewish bi’atch in town. She can shake hands with Tom Zugibe.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Theres TWO separate issues here

    1: Ramapo Police insensitivity

    2: Frum ppl stealing tax $$

    We all know how horribly anti-semitic the cops here are, and there is NO excuse for it. I’ve gotten pulled over for stupid things like a burnt out tail light and have gotten so much attitude from these horrible cops (read: pigs).

    upstate
    upstate
    15 years ago

    Giving the officer the benefit of doubt, I would not yell anti-semite. Rather, like many policemen, it is an ego trip, to show you that they are in charge. Which also leads to many of them threatening to charge with not complying with an officer when you hesitate to do exactly what ‘they’ said.

    An officer in a jewish community shoud be trained to respect different religions, EVEN if the person is a criminal. In the USA even convicted prisoners are allowed freedom of religion.

    Above all I would beg you to remember that we are yidden, and we have a torah that guides us. leave the halachic implications of “if she steals, she does not have to cover her head”, to the people who know the din. And leave the accusations of anti-semitism to those elected in our gvmnt.

    Kol yisroel araivim ze… We are all responsible for each other. So, yes…we should stand behind this woman who was denied her freedom of religion. But.. show your support, and leave the accusing to those in office. Nothing will change by all the ranting and raving.

    upstate
    upstate
    15 years ago

    Maybe it is time, that leading a life of a chasidic/litvish home should not cost an arm and a leg. A yiddishe family cannot live on the minimum income. Think tuition, pesach, tfillin,kosher food. Maybe it is time when parents should not have to choose moonlighting a second job, or faking the income for the desperately needed cash to just be able to provide the minimum for our kids.

    Fraud and corruption is happening in very many huge corporations and even in gvt. agencies. The way some people write, you would think it is am exclusive yiddish thing. It is not!! What percent of Rockland County yidden are getting gvt. help? If you research it, you will realize that B”H most of us live independantly, working hard for our money and paying the very high taxes for the county and federal gvt. A ‘small’ percent have to reach out for gvt. assistance when they are not making ends meet.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Upstate; A “small percentage”? I believe that roughly 80% of the “frum” living in New Square” earn   poverty level.

    Pinky's wife
    Pinky's wife
    15 years ago

    We do need to stand together with Muslims to protect our religious rights and freedoms.

    Many times throughout history, Christian gov’ts first persecuted Muslims and then turned to Jews.

    I get very upset when I see Jews passing around emails about Barack Obama being a secret Muslim etc. exacerbating Anti Semitism and shortening our stay in the US.

    As a sheital wearing woman, I am sorry for this woman. It has happened to me twice, once when I registered to vote in FL and a second time entering a Shul of BH; the metal comb on my wig set off a metal detector. It terribly humiliating. but since having a baby, its hard to be embarrassed.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Actually – since a wig can be changed or removed it makes no sense to take the photo without it. She was already identified with it on — the worst case scenario is that she cjanged it to hide her appearance– she could still do this so the bare headed photo could easily be rendered useless. I think every cop in monsey understands the significance of a frum womans wig. I cant believe this was anything nmore than an act of hatred. Perhaps brought on by what some say is a holier than though attitude of many nfrum jews. This attitude is also well known by many monsey cops mand must vcause alot of consternation. when we live in galus we must respect its laws.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    MDN how dare u mention any names to embarrace a yid & family shame on u and to VIN how do yo allow this & all of u having a geneiva problam show us your w2 & 1099 and everything u buy for your house & car 2show if u report everything

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I’M REALLY IN SHOCK THE WAY PEOPLE WRITE OVER HERE ALL THEIR OPINIONS BUT IF YOUR JEWISH YOU SHOULD BE DOING WHAT CHAZAL TELL US TO DO WHICH IS CALLED BEING DON LKAF ZECHUS WHAT I MEAN TO SAY IS THAT AFTER YOU WILL HEAR THE WHOLE TRUE STORY YOU WILL THINK A LITTLE DIFFERENT

    THE STORY GOES AS FOLLOWS ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO THEY WERE CALLED IN ABOUT ALL THEIR INCOME AND IT CAME OUT THAT THEY OWED A FEW THOUSEND DOLLARS AND THEY CLAIMED THAT THEY DONT OWE THE MONEY FOR CERTAIN REASONS ANYWAYS ABOUT A WEEK AGO THE DA CAME TO THE HOUSE AND SAID SINCE THEY DIDNT PAY THE MONEY THE OWED THEY HAVE A “COURT DATE” WHICH WAS THURSDAY NOT “ARRESTED” ANY WAYS BY THE COURT THEY DECIDED THAT JUST INCASE THEY GET ARRESTED THEY MUST TAKE ALL THESE PICTURES SO AT THE TIME SHE REQESTED TO HAVE A FEMALE OFFICER TO HANDEL HER AND THAT SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO REMOVE HER WIG (YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO FOOD STAMP AND NO SECTION 8 AND SO ON)WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT STEALERS AND GANOVIM LIKE EVERYONE WROTE NOW WE ALL KNOW WHY WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS OUR CHAZAL TOUGHT US TO BE DON LKAF ZECHUS NOT TO JUST POST WHAT YOU HEAR AND WHAT YOU SEE.

    hh
    hh
    15 years ago

    The cop was able to see her widows peak which gave it away. Not very dificult to see.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Once again everyone is missing the point. She is innocent until proven guilty, just as the police officer is, so DON’T use the excuse she is a felon, she is a criminal. That is a hypocritical argument to make. They are both yet not guilty, take the facts for the facts.

    hasidic cop
    hasidic cop
    15 years ago

    MDN Says:

    Chasidic Cop, are you Glauber, the divorced satmer gal who is becoming a Ramapo cop?

    Is it true that told the Ramapo cops that it is ok for a male cop to handle a woman?

    Monsey residents beware: we’re getting a new self hating jewish bi’atch in town. She can shake hands with Tom Zugibe.

    06-22-2008 – 2:04 AM

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    Are you jelous of this glauber person that she is actually doing something substatial with her life rather then mooch off her parents and local government or are you upset that you tried hitting on her and she just ignored and that got you really MAD.

    anon
    anon
    15 years ago

    Mi kamcha yisroel!

    we love to call police horrible things on the blogs when they wanna faingerprintr and fotograph frum woemn who do something bad enough to get arrested! mikamcha yisroel.

    goys echod maaretz!

    a Traveler
    a Traveler
    15 years ago

    If you think people are bad here you should read the over 200 comments that have been posted on lohud,com the Journal News website.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I wish somebody would provide an accurate rendition of this case;

    If this women was not arrested why was she booked / procesed?

    If she was arrested what are the charges?

    If there is an investigation in a wellfare case and the government claims they overpaid the recepient can go for a hearing. If the the government prevails they will allow repayment over time.

    If the government alleges fraud, which seems to be the case here because the DA is involved, then charges are brought and the recepient gets arrested on specific charges.

    There is no such thing as a booking in case we will want to arrest her at a later date.