Jerusalem, Israel – Technological advancements have always posed somewhat of a problem for the ultra-Orthodox community. The rabbis often choose to ban any public contact with any unfamiliar gadget, for fear their users might be exposed to inappropriate content; and so MP4 players, which allow users to watch films, have now become the newest threat to chastity.
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The fight against the device reached a new level, when an MP4 supplier, whose store is located on the outskirts of Jerusalem’s Meah Shearim neighborhood, found it vandalized – its window and showcases smashed.
A second store, located just off the Shabbat Square, did not fare much better: It too was vandalized and its repair lab burnt down. Some say that was an event waiting to happen: For several weeks prior to the arson, a dozen-or-so yeshiva student used to demonstrate in front of the store every week and protest the sale of the banned devices.
The storeowners even found pashkevilim distributed against them: “A terrible plague is upon us, calming victims every day… these sinful devices were banned by all the great rabbis, but are still common in the haredi world… their devilish distributors want nothing more than to drive the people of Israel to sin, through movies and other abominations,” read the ads.
Another pashkevil, by the “association for the saving of the youth in the Holy Land,” informed the public about a rabbis and an Orthodox Righteous Court of Law ordinance banning MP4 devices all together: “This little device is the devil’s way to try and gain entrance to our protected homes and yeshivas, disguised as something you can listen to Torah lessons through,” it said.
The Orthodox Righteous Court of Law had held a session on MP4 devices. The court ruled that the devices must be banned and issued a warning to all vendors not to stock them, saying those who do “will be subject to a court hearing,” and giving vendors three week to comply with its ruling.
The police have reportedly launched an investigation into both vandalism incidents.
That’s the way to go: smash and vandalize. 😉
did they ever here of just dont but it like all the other stuff out there.
when phones came out they wanted to ban them also, give’m some time they’ll get used to it.
the vandals should be caught and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
so does this mean that arson and vandalism are correct actions for those on the derech.
Surely, the pashkvillim denouncing this terrible plague of violence and vildkeit are soon to come, right…? RIGHT?
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THE BETH DIN’S REASON FOR BQNNING THE DEVICE. RABBONIM ARE NOT FOOLS.
These fights and acts of “violence” are fully warrented and these people will go straight to gan eden for being mekadesh hashem and standing up for whats right.
All you guys have your priorities wrong
the rabbonims ban is very clear and simple to understand
would you allow a television or
unclean reading material into your home?? by allowing this gadget that can download and store movies etc due to its advanced technology it can ultimatley be used for downloading unclean material
so when the police will get the people the burned the store the guys will say that the cops are anti-semits
let’s go back to the stone age; after all, no jews assimilated before modern technology existed.
i don’t get the anti-technology crowd, i just don’t get it. i dont understand it at all.
THIS IS not A BES DIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OR ANYTHING TO DO WITH ONE
The post that said these criminals will go to heaven I disagree you don’t go around destroying things because you have a disagreement.
It appears that this is against “VIDEO” players, not neccesarily AUDIO ONLY players.
I can definitely understand the dangers involved & trying to ban them but, I wholly disagree with violence/vandalism in enforcing such a ban.
it’s basicaly fear of the unknown.
they think that by banning this and all other technology advanced gadgets they’ll be able to keep up with the next generation.
haha!! I can just say to them, (there were lots of other people before u that tried the same game. but…. to no avail.
good luck!!
While I do believe in the wisdom of our Chachamim, I also believe the knee-jerk reaction of banning any technilogical advance that can be used for impure purposes will have the exact opposite effect on the people that they are trying to protect. The majority of erlicher Yiddin know what is shmutz and what is not. For those that are “at risk”, such bans only serve to push those people further away and give reason for them to belittle the “well meaning” authorities. This method is NOT working.
The ban is misunderstood, because it requires a sensitivity to the effects of an altered environment, which is invisble to the average person.
Most people see only the end results of an altered spritual environment. They don’t connect it to the original cause.
That’s why a prophet is called a “RoEh”–a seer.
The Talibanization of our community continues.
when will they ban child molesters?
Have you noticed that the rational responses, either in favor of the ban or against, are literate & comprehensible?
The hysterical, angry, fanatical posts are “written” so badly they’re almost impossible to decipher. (Unfortunately, I just managed to read them.)
Interesting point, don’t you think?
People who believe it is wrong to have such devices should not buy them, As for those who want them, they will get them anyway even if Chareidi stores don’t sell them. The Rabbonim can give their recommendations but, I don’t see how they ban someone from selling them.Besides aren’t there kosher videos to watch?
Every since my husband got an MP4 player, all he does is listen to gemara shiurim. Oh yes, this is a tool of the yetzer hara.
Pirtzeh koreh leganov! if the store around the corner or across the street sells it, it jumps in the eye and attracts people to buy it, very simple. bes din gave an issur, and it’s a first class chutzpah from a store in the ultra frum area to sell it and desecrate the holy city and the kovod of bes din to sell it in the heart of Yerushalayim, shame!
that actually doesn’t give an OK to vandalize someones property, there’s a fine line in between, and everything has to be bound by the Torah.
To all negative sick minded critics, Daas Torah is limited to the understanding of the rabbonim and Gedolei hatorah, not the ideas or understanding of amei aratzim sitting blogging on internet all day. when the rabbonim they need to assur MP4 or a concert, it’s daas torah! and when some critic sitting by the computer screen decides it was unfair, this doesn’t count.
I am sitting here lol! As far as I’m concerned, the mp4’s don’t have dowloading capabilities. It’s not connected to the internet. You can download clips to your computer and transfer them to your mp4 for future veiwing-so don’t ban mp4 players-if anything, ban the internet which dowloads these things…
As in many recent cases, the rabbonim are mislead by alot of people stating wrong facts.
Let me know when we see a “kol korei” against dishonesty, destroying other people’s property,etc. etc.
Also, I’d like to see a “kol korei” that says that something is permitted (even breathing).
theyr’e talking about some religion. don’t sound like Judasim
the halacha is that one may sell pork to another jew if pork is available to buy elsewhere he is not oiver lifnei evier lo setein michshol so even if one is not allowed to own an mp4 it is in no way usser to sell the device if it is available all over
1:29 WELL SAID!!
1:35, if there is such a halacha, the rabbonim surely know about it, it’s absolutely not their obligation to consult internet forums before deciding on a kol koreh.
anon 1:31
The gemorah in Sanhedrin 99: says that your an apikores. sorry I’m only quoting a chazal.
MP4 = MPEG-4 Part 1 = *Video* player
MP3 = MPEG-1 Audio Layer 3 = *Music*/shiurim player
There are very good reasons for banning MP4 players – exactly the same (or more) than banning TV which the frum community (as a whole) accept as necessary.
And yes, some of the decrees our rabbonim enact are similar to those of the Taliban – why is that such a bad thing? The taliban are extremists in following their “religion” and so l’havdil are we (except we’re more reasonable as we have a solid grounding for our laws and it’s possible to live happily with our decrees).
didnt they vadalize the store near the mir bec. he was selling reg. cell phones and not “only “kosher ones??
I’m always intrigued by the writer of these news items how he allows himself to editorialize as he reports. You can immediately tell whose side he’s on.
That said. These bans etc are to educate the public of the potential spiritual dangers of some of this new technology and yes inforcement is neccesary because you cannot rely on “the buyer beware” eg adolesence who do not neccesarily make the wisest decisions based on spirituality. We as parents and adults should be joining these battles. Now if you deny that there are issues to contend with then that changes our discussion but otherwise we ought not allow these items to be too conveniently available
There are many dangers caused by these devices. I have heard of cases where frum teenage yeshiva boys were r”l exposed to pornography by a classmate who brought an mp4 device to the classroom. All parents must be alert.
By the way, many iPods have video capabilities. Besides the very basic models. Yes one needs the internet to be able to download videos but all a kid needs is 1 friend who has internet and they can fill their player with all bad things and carry it around and pass it on to others.. The dangers are very real. For shiurim there are many audio only devices out there.
Vandalism is also wrong, but sometimes it is the only way they can get through to these people…
2:18, good point.
Anonymous Says:
the rabbonims ban is very clear and simple to understand
would you allow a television or
unclean reading material into your home?? by allowing this gadget that can download and store movies etc due to its advanced technology it can ultimatley be used for downloading unclean material
06-30-2008 – 10:47 AM
==============================================
Maybe we should bav motor vehicles because you can go get all sorts of things that should not be had by a jewish person.
Maybe we should ban Telephones because with one clik and you get all the shmoots you want.
Ultimately, this hinges on one key question – would we rather live in a theocracy or a democracy?
I think every frum person would say I want to live in a theocracy, where the will of the Ribbono Shel Olam is supreme.
And yet for most of us (except for the obvious “zealots” among us) when we hear of these bans and Kol Korei’s, and especially when we hear of people resorting to violence to enforce these decisions, we cringe.
The reason we cringe is not that we don’t believe in Da’as Torah. It’s because we suspect that those who are in a position to represent “Da’as Torah” are not always making the right decisions. And it isn’t only because many recent decisions coming from “Da’as Torah” that are questionable. It’s because there are serious questions about who are in positions of leadership. Who elected them to these posts? How did they get there? Whom do they represent?
Democracy is imperfect, but embedded in it, is the concept of minority rights – that even the majority can’t do anything to interfere with a person’s rights to certain civil liberties. That’s because democracies understand the tyranny of the majority, and installed safeguards to protect people.
There are no such rights needed in a theocracy, if it is truly based on the Ribbono Shel Olem’s rotzon. But when politics plays a part – when the “Da’as Torah” is an amalgam of self-serving imperfect people who serve their own interests rather than the Ribbono Shel Olem’s, and in many cases are swayed by politics, money and power – then that is not a “Da’as Torah” that can be trusted.
The reality is we have a leadership issue – we have unelected, untested “representatives” who further their own interests and have the temerity to make decisions for the kahal, which when they’re proven unwise don’t have the decency to make amends for their actions – the Lipa fiasco comes to mind.
R. Akiva said – Tomoh ani im yesh ba’dor Lehochiach – “I wonder if there is anyone in our generation who can issue rebuke.” – He said this in his time – what can we say in ours?
Well, I’d still rather accept what the gedoley yisroel preach, rather than any wise guy internet blogger, and this was the way we survived golus up till today, by listening blindly to the gedolim of each generation, regardless if their preaching or demands were understood and agreed by the da’as ba’alei batim.
p.s. if anyone doesn’t get the idea of assering this mp4, there’s a big problem with that neshoma.
4:28 said: “… if anyone doesn’t get the idea of assering this mp4, there’s a big problem with that neshoma…”
This is the typical knee jerk response, lets attack people personally now!!!
4:28 is damn right.
for more explanation see post of: “Never too careful – 3:53”
Ban the mp4 players but protect the molesters. Makes sense to me. Far more damage to klal yisroel from these devices.
by going around and trashing stores that sell MP4 players the chareidim of Israel are sending a message that they think are above the law. by doing so they are disgracing Jews through out israel. I think the greatest tradgedy that the jews of today face is the fact that chareidim and secular jews feel the need to sepete themselves from each other to the extent where religous. torah observant jews are going around trashing modern stores. Had the jews in meah shearim simply just not baught the mp4 player it would have sufficed. that would have been the jewsih response
my son (14 years old) came home last week from yeshiva one day with an interesting report, a classmate brought an ipod in yeshiva, and showed nice video for his friends, gladly there was no improper content in it (hopefully), he also explained how he loads it down from a computer, and then he takes it in his pocket.. I was shocked and frightened, (who knows what content he might load down from the internet tomorrow), and I told my son to stay away from that boy, but since there is no takonah in the yeshiva against ipods, I couldn’t even complain about it.
On the goyishe train you see signs that say NO SMOKING, NO SPITTING, NO GOING IN BETWEEN CARS….
On a jewish train you would see:
no smoking,
only food to be eaten with no less than 10 hashgochos.
No spitting
No stealing
No Lipa music
No drinking water with bugs
NO wearing wigs without a hechsher
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Say YES! To NO!
you can still complain, and maybe they will disallow them in the school.
punish the so called rabbis who cause mischeif. what are we going back to stoneage?
maybe they should develop a kosher MP4 player like the the kosher cell phone
if they were trust there kids a bit that it will be only used for good and the devices are checked regularly whats the problem
To all those who still missed a vital point-see 1:29 comment from anon.
DON’T HAVE THE INTERNET(WITHOUT A FILTER) IF ANYTHING-THE MP4 IS JUST A SMALL VERSION OF YOUR CAMCORDER-IT’S WHAT YOU PUT ONTO IT WHICH CAN BE SCARY-NOT THE WEB CAPABILITIES. ITS NOT AN INTERNET DEVICE.
EVER HEARD OF A CAR? THATS THE THING WITH THE 4 WHEELS WHICH CAN KILL PEOPLE TOO… IT’S THE PERSON BEHIND THE WHEEL WHO IS DANGEROUS-NOT THE CAR.
GET IT YET???????????????
now if you convert an MP4 Video to an MP3 compatible then it becomes kosher ?
then i am going in to the converting business
like the above comment’s
its the drivers / fathers – mothers ” Machnchim ”
that it starts at