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Israel - Proposed New Kesubah Addendum Would Annul Marriage if a 'Get' is Refused |
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Participants included Rabbi Shlomo Daichovsky, the most veteran judge at the rabbinic High Court in Jerusalem, and Rabbi Shear-Yashuv Cohen, chief rabbi of Haifa and a member of the Rabbinate's supreme council.
The preferred proposal at the meeting was to draft an addendum to the ketubah, that would make it possible to annul the marriage if a spouse is refused a divorce.
Womens' organizations say there are thousands of women and several hundred men in Israel who have been denied a Get. According to Jewish law and the practice of rabbinic courts, if a husband refuses to grant his wife a divorce, she remains an agunah (literally anchored, or chained), and cannot remarry.
Manchester University Centre for Jewish Studies has an Agunah Research Unit, headed by Prof. Bernard Jackson, which is trying to frame solutions that will be compatible with Orthodox law on get denial.
Two center hosted rabbis and scholars, all Orthodox, to examine a series of solutions. The conference was not publicized, and all of the discussions were closed to the public.
"We maintained secrecy to enable everyone, the rabbis too, to express themselves freely," one participant said.
Besides rabbis Daichovsky and Cohen, veteran senior members of the rabbinic establishment in Israel, the meeting was attended by Efrat's Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, Rabbi Michael J. Broyde, a member of the Rabbinical Council of America, and others.
Among the alternatives considered during two days of concentrated discussions were granting rabbinic courts the authority to expropriate the marriage contract on which the marriage ceremony rests, and introducing civil marriage. But those proposals were deemed too bold, and incapable of securing rabbinic establishment consent.
Another idea floated was to employ pre-nuptial agreements, a proposal raised in the past in Israel. The pre-nup makes it possible to levy a fine on a husband for every day he refuses to grant his wife a divorce, and it is already in broad use in Orthodox communities in America. In Israel the ultra-Orthodox rabbis opposed introducing it.
The proposal that won the most support is to make the marriage ceremony "probationary" by means of an addendum to the ketubah. The addendum would stipulate that if the couple separates and one spouse refuses to grant the other a divorce, the marriage would be annuled after a period of time determined in advance. This is already the custom among French Jews, but many rabbis objected to it. Now, the colloquium participants believe, there is a chance of persuading the rabbinic establishment to accept such a solution.
Jackson's Agunah Research Unit in Manchester will spend the coming months drafting the addendum to the ketubah, after which it will be submitted to the biggest rabbis with the hope they will endorse its use.
"It's only at an early stage," one of the participants said, "but the participation of senior rabbis like Daichovsky in such a proceeding provides hope it will succeed."
Daichovsky confirmed that he attended the gathering, but dampened hopes of a speedy revolution. "I did not propose anything, only commented on proposals others raised," he said. "It was merely a brainstorming session, and we did not reach any decisions. I think we are perhaps laying the foundations for solutions in future generations."
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Read Comments (33) — Post Yours »
1
Aug 05, 2008 at 07:40 AM DaddyO Says:
Its about time. If we can find a way to keep Chametz on Pesach (sell to a non Jew through the rabbi....) we can find a legal way to help the agunos. Yes, its about time.
2
Aug 05, 2008 at 08:06 AM aguna Says:
If the Gedolim like Reb Elyashiv etc come out against it, then it'll die.
3
Aug 05, 2008 at 08:13 AM Yosi Says:
Yes, and now we must find a way to fix eating chometz on pesach ok.
4
Aug 05, 2008 at 08:19 AM anonymous Says:
it does not take a theologan to end this problem.
The best solution is the halachic permissable in place for a recaltrant person who will not give a get. An ash wood Louisville slugger.
5
Aug 05, 2008 at 08:50 AM Anonymous Says:
This doesn't sound kosher to me. Those rabbis are not the mainstream rabbis accepted by most chareidim. They're going to cause a lot of trouble with this. If a woman doesn't get a get and her marriage is annulled and she gets married again and has children - I would not want my children marrying those children.
6
Aug 05, 2008 at 08:56 AM Anonymous Says:
Anon 8:19
The Rambam already proposed that solution.
7
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:02 AM Simcha Says:
"Not Mainstream accepted by most charedim" does this mean that because they are not from the charedi camp they are some how inferior and their learning and scholarship is meaningless? Way to go supporting ahavas chinam in the nine days.
8
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:10 AM Moishe Mulva Says:
What's wrong with the system that needs fixin'...When a young man gets married, joins a Kollel, expects a living wage from mechutan...wife needs to get a job,raise kids,clean the house...then things start going out of wack? Clearly these women are not doing their job, if the husband refuses to give a get, there must be a good reason!!!
9
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:10 AM Yankele Says:
Mainstream rabbonim?
Learn todays Daf Yomi!
Get al Tinai.
It should and absluolutely be done.
10
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:25 AM Chaim S. Says:
To those who criticize this idea as not being "mainstream". How would you react if the aguna was your sister, or daughter?
11
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:39 AM Anonymous Says:
Rabbanim need to be more active, or appoint people to be active, in counseling people before marriage and during marriage. There are too many divorces.
12
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:
Mainstream rabbonim?
Learn todays Daf Yomi!
Get al Tinai.
Please look at ALL the Teshuva Seforim that discuss whty Tnai does not help here
13
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:48 AM Anonymous Says:
If there is a Rabbinical will, there ia a Rabbincal way. Is a statement of Apikursis as that it equates Rabbonim as the Torah itself. Rabbi study it as we all do AND the Rabbis tell us what the Torah says - Not what we want the Torah to say!
14
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:
Aguna 8:06 PM: Rav Elyashiv opposes the RCA prenup but all other segments of the Torah world accept it, so it hasn't died.
15
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:55 AM Rabbi Lebovic Says:
Kidushin al tnai, was annuled by all Rabbis worldwide. Their psak was printed as a sefer in the 1934.
16
Aug 05, 2008 at 10:21 AM D Chossid Says:
This will only lead to a feeling that marriage is only a trial, and that that it's normal to bail out. Although there are a sprinkling of cases where this will help people, the amount of damage this would do is not worth it, in my opinion.
17
Aug 05, 2008 at 10:26 AM Yosef Says:
Simcha 9:02
You're right. There are, b"h, many great Talmidei Chachomim in the world who are very capable of finding Halachically sound solutions to this crisis.
The reality, however, is that unless this is endorsed by Rav Elyashiv, Chacham Ovadia, Rav Wosner etc; or worse yet, if these Gedolim oppose this initiative, it just won't be unanimously accepted in the Olam HaTorah. And if it is accepted by some and not by others, it'll, chas vesholom, be worse! I, for one, would not want to marry into a family whose children are considered kosher by some and mamzeirim by others.
Besides, I would like to think that Rav Moshe ztz"l would have proposed whatever solution it is these Talmidei Chachomim are working on.
18
Aug 05, 2008 at 11:05 AM Anonymous Says:
I believe a similar proposal, whereby a the husband on the weddingn ight created an agent to write a get for his new wife, was raised by R' Y. E. Henkin.
19
Aug 05, 2008 at 11:12 AM alanjayros Says:
It seems to me that the one SOLUTION is the
KESUBAH itself. We should force the husband to
continue supporting his WIFE until he gives her a get. The Bes Din should have the power to
force this if you don't give a get, she is still your wife and you must pay for food, clothing,
and lodging.
20
Aug 05, 2008 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:
Lets be honest about this maneuvering and call a spade a spade.
Let them just announce they are amending Shulchan Orach to update it for the modern day.
21
Aug 05, 2008 at 11:53 AM ball habos Says:
Anonymous Says:
This doesn't sound kosher to me. Those rabbis are not the mainstream rabbis accepted by most chareidim. They're going to cause a lot of trouble with this. If a woman doesn't get a get and her marriage is annulled and she gets married again and has children - I would not want my children marrying those children.
08-05-2008 - 8:50 AM
========================================
If the main stream Rabbis can nullfy geirus retroactivly then im sure they can nullfy a marriage too.$$$
22
Aug 05, 2008 at 11:54 AM Avrohom Abba Says:
Bravo! Excellent move.
Too many shattered families have been laughed at by these big brave men who claim they want the family back together. We all know what that menas, It means two things; one...if I can't have you, no ohe is going to have you. Two...I hope you take me back so I can make your life miserable again to pay you back for having the nerve to reject a big shot like me.
WHere were these rabbis for the last couple of thousand years?
23
Aug 05, 2008 at 12:21 PM Chiozik Says:
Crazy stuff! Only a Reformist can come up with this Shelo Kehalacha garbage!
24
Aug 05, 2008 at 01:43 PM anonymous Says:
NO! the difference is the geyrus were never real in the first place!! hence they weren't really even annulled the rabbis just called the process which was accepted unacceptabled and therefore all the geyrim aren't yidden. but they can't just up and decide to annul marriages left and right! the solution is the botei din need to be more aggressive and call for all shuls, beis midrash, businessess, everthing to prevent the men from participating. the solution to this problem is NOT to rewrite the law, it is to enforce it!!!
25
Aug 05, 2008 at 02:00 PM Drill Here!! Drill Now!! Save Money!! Says:
Nothing like making MORE mamzerim & p'sulim in the world.
26
Aug 05, 2008 at 02:01 PM Drill Here!! Drill Now!! Save Money!! Says:
Would any sane person want to marry a women who's k'suba was "annuled?" Sounds like the x-stans have crawled their way into this.
27
Aug 05, 2008 at 02:52 PM dan in real life Says:
moishe mulva, I'm davening for you.
as to the discussion above, after efficient and truthful investigation into the marriage, I'm all for breaking the husband's knee-caps until he admits he really does want to divorce his wife.
28
Aug 05, 2008 at 03:50 PM aguna Says:
Not everyone agrees with the RCA on pre-nups.I know from experience.
29
Aug 05, 2008 at 05:10 PM Larry Lennhoff Says:
While this might lead to some women being considered married by some and not by others, it is still superior to being an agunah one's entire life. Remember the Beit Hillel and Beit Shammai did not agree over questions of legitimacy and yet the groups still intermarried when there was no conflict. I would hope that just as in that case the split rulings would ultimate be reconciled.
30
Aug 05, 2008 at 05:38 PM Anonymous Says:
beat him until he says "i want [to give her the get]" --- is the rough translation of the solution. today our rabbis dont have that much power, unless the rabbis are named gambino, columbo, etc... otherwise, there would be husbands putting the rabbis in jail for authorizing the beatings.
UNLESS, maybe the kesuba should give exclusive permission to a specific beis din to beat the husband until he "WANTED" to give the get....then since he pre-authorized the beatings, the rabbis would be safe...
sounds like a case for the supreme court....
31
Aug 05, 2008 at 06:08 PM Larry Lennhoff Says:
I'm always taken aback by the people who think beating a recalcitrant husband is ok, since that was approved by the Rambmam, but fining him $250/day would make the get be forced. Why can't finances bring a person's true nature to the fore as readily as a beating? Rambam suggested a beating because it made sense in the context of his time. It seems to me that charging a financial penalty does the same thing in the context of ours.
32
Aug 05, 2008 at 07:01 PM Anonymous Says:
If a solution as trivial as Kesubah al tenai (or any of the others that make any sense) was Hallachically permissible, it would have been instituted by the Rabbonon - not of the last generation - but of the MISHNAH and GEMORRAH.
C'mon, does anyone who calls him/herself a Torah-observant Jew think the Tannaim and Amoraim are any less smart, Ch'V, than the "geniuses" proposing these solutions?
Gimme a break!! The Tannaim and Amoraim were more concerned about Agunos than anyone. Just learn Seder Nashim.
33
Aug 05, 2008 at 09:18 PM bigwheeel Says:
Larry Lenhoff 6:08PM. Some guys [and gals] are so stingy, that they'd rather take a beating than pay a Dollar!!!