Postville, IA – Rabbinic leaders visiting the Rubashkin (Agriprocessors) plant on Thursday of last week were quite impressed with the manner in which the employees are treated, as well as the plant’s general method of operation. They interviewed clergymen, town officials from Postville, Iowa, and federal inspectors and compliance officers. The rabbis also saw a saintly-looking man, Mr. Aaron Rubashkin, at the helm of the organization, whom gentiles and Jews alike describe as a very charitable man who has fed the poor of every community he has ever lived in for over four decades.
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“Everything we saw was diametrically opposed to the rumors that we heard before we went,” said Rabbi Pesach Lerner, executive vice-president of the National Council of Young Israel and a resident of Far Rockaway, who organized the mission and led the group that came from 15 cities in the U.S. and Canada. Rabbi Lerner’s sentiments were shared by the other members of the mission. “It was important that we went and saw for ourselves. We saw a clean, modern, and friendly environment. We asked a lot of questions and spoke to many workers. We were impressed by what we saw and what we heard.”
Since what they saw was in such stark contrast to the rumors floating about concerning the plant, the question arises: Where is the lashon ha’ra coming from?
Indeed, at the rabbinic leadership visit, the mayor of Postville decried the damage to Postville that the allegations have caused. If Agriprocessors were to close down, the economic harm to Postville’s residents would be incalculable. The question is thus quite pertinent. Who, or what, is behind the campaign to destroy this company?
The answer, believe it or not, is not so hidden. In 2005, United Food and Commercial Workers, a labor union, embarked upon a campaign to unionize the Iowa-based plant. So far it has failed. In response to its failure, the UFCW has, by its own admission, embarked upon a vicious campaign to pressure Agri to unionize.
The campaign has resorted to placing devious advertisements in newspapers. One such incident involved ads, placed by UFCW in Jewish newspapers across the country, falsely implying that the K’hal Adath Jeshurun kashrus organization (KAJ) made decisions based upon worker issues. Luckily, the New Jersey Jewish Standard was not fooled by the UFCW tactics and called KAJ to verify the facts. Eric Erlbach, president of KAJ, said that his organization did not allege any violations of health or kashrus law.
Accusations have been coming forth from UFCW spokesman Scott Frotman. In a past statement, Frotman said, “Agriprocessors is operating as a renegade in this industry and it is important that they are held accountable for their actions.” Yet when respected leaders held their interviews and examination, they found no credibility to such allegations. Indeed, Five Towns Jewish Times interviews back up the views of the visiting rabbis and members of the Jewish media
The UFCW has been attempting to battle declining membership for years. According to filings with U.S. Department of Labor, in 2002, the UFCW national membership totaled 1,380,507. In 2003, over 21,000 members stopped paying their dues and left the union. While union leadership was certainly alarmed, in the next year, 2004, another 20,000 members quit. In 2005, the number of disgruntled members rose to more than 27,000, causing union membership to plummet to only 1,311,548 nationwide.
What caused the members to leave? The UFCW leadership may have something to do with their departure. In late 2005, the former assistant to the president of UFCW International, Joseph DiFlumera, was sentenced for mail fraud, racketeering, and extorting more than $1.5 million from a grocery chain. According to court records, DiFlumera told prosecutors that he would offer an “insurance policy” that allowed a company to “come under the umbrella” of protection from union organizing. DiFlumera “repeatedly advised these individuals that the monies paid to him were handed over to the president of Local 1445 and the UFCW. The defendant insisted that if these monies were not paid by the company the company would suffer extreme economic harm.” The Rubashkins are not the only corporation that has been subjected to UFCW pressure. The UFCW has been attacking Wal-Mart and other corporations, as well. Smithfield Foods, a North Carolina corporation, was subjected to a horrific pressure campaign. Smithfields Foods, however, is a bit more sophisticated than the Rubashkin family in fighting back.
According to Tracy Gibler, a 2007 Drake Law School graduate and an analyst at the Center for Union Facts, “Smithfield Foods is currently engaged in litigation against the United Food and Commercial Workers union and is successfully pushing back against the union’s vicious campaign. A federal court has refused to dismiss Smithfield’s RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations) Act claims against UFCW, saying that Smithfield had a property right (a RICO Act requirement) to recognize the union “without interference by or involvement from the union.”
“The very existence of the Corporate Campaign concept is founded on the recognition that the exercise of that right is of great import and of great consequence,” the court noted. “Until the unions prevail in a valid NLRB certified election,” it is this intangible, but no less valuable, property right that is capable of being extorted by the defendants through the use of corporate campaign tactics, the court concluded. As such, the company has stated a cognizable RICO claim. The union responded by arguing that their conduct was merely coercion and not extortion.
The UFCW leadership is not without unsavory characters. Indeed, since 2001, the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor Management Standards has prosecuted dozens of UFCW officials for criminal activity. For example, in Denver, Colorado, on October 6, 2005, Stephen L. Bush, a former Recording Secretary for Food and Commercial Workers Local 990, was sentenced to six months’ home detention with electronic monitoring and five years’ probation for embezzling more than $20,000 of union members’ money. Another example: Rebecca Bandt, the former president of UFCW Local 717, found guilty, fined, and imprisoned for embezzlement on March 24, 2006. This was discovered by an investigation of the Milwaukee branch of the Office of Labor Management Standards.
But these are individuals. What about the organization itself? If they are, in fact, so unsavory, why has the government not come down on them? It has. Since 2000, the National Labor Relations Board’s CATS has tracked thousands of allegations against the UFCW, ranging from close to 1,200 allegations of failing in their duty of fair representation to 71 allegations of incidents of coercive statements. There were 66 allegations of threatening statements and 9 allegations of assault. Of course, these are only allegations and we must extend the UFCW the same courtesy of innocence until proven guilty that should be granted the Rubashkins concerning allegations by UFCW.
For those who still believe that the UFCW is concerned for the workers, let’s take a look at UFCW salaries. Doug Dority, former UFCW president, made well over $700,000 in salary and benefits. Close to 300 UFCW local leaders make well over $100,000 per year. A November 2006 article from UFCWreform.org found a major disparity between the needs of union members and the bosses representing them. The average UFCW member earns between $25,000 and $30,000. This means that a significant portion of UFCW members have earnings below the U.S. federal poverty level. In fact, if union salaries of UFCW officials were capped at $100,000 per year, members would save over $18 million a year. This would be the second highest savings in the country for a union.
There is no question that UFCW has embarked on this campaign against Rubashkin, because they have admitted on record that they have done so, just as they are trying to do to Smithfield Foods and to Wal-Mart. The question, rather, is, How has the Jewish community and the media allowed the UFCW to attack and damage a company like Rubashkin and stand idly by?
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Thank you Vos Is Neias for posting this article and showing the world that we as Frum Yidden are not all that people make us out to be in the media.
These union heads are a bounch of mafia
it was a very big chulal hasem as robashkin’s compatition put in a very dirty article last week friday in the new york time’s.
and as matter in fact every 1 know’s that they have real MEHIDEDIGE glatt kosher chicken!!
(im not saying that it’s such high level standerd like KIRYAS YOEL chicken)
but going to a big non jewish news paper a post a dirty article so the goy’s sees ALL jewish ppl eating non kosher meet!!
mazal tov for posting this
may you continue to post nice things
Everything that Pesach Lerner said on the Zev Brenner’s radio show was refuted on Postville Radio. I heard it.
Who is telling the truth? A rabbi that was paid to ‘see’ the truth at Rubashkin?
I never heard of “glatt kosher” chicken? I thought only beef is glatt kosher, which means the lungs are smooth.
Where are all the Agri/Rubashkin bashers now? Your very quiet now that Rabbi Lerner said his piece. Or are you going to now come up with some sort of rude comments about Rabbi Lerner?
Let’s hear an apology & an admission that you were wrong to believe negative publicity without hearing from neutral sources. I’m sure Agri will forgive you.
Is there any truth to what Rabbi Lerner is saying? They had a scheduled visit, not an unscheduled one, they work with Rubashkin, was there any chance they would see anything that didn’t agree with what they wanted to find?
It’s really a shame when our Rabbinical leadership is afraid to go up against corrupt Jewish organizations. While not all the allegations about Rubashkin are true, there’s enough going wrong there that makes it one of the greatest chillul hashems of the last few years.
Hey slimey washington rabbi who washed his laundry in the Slimes….
What do you say now??
I’m 11:17, & I must apologize, I see the Agri/Rubashkin bashers are back in business as strong & wrong as ever.
Just because he gives a lot of tzedakah, does not mean he treats his workers right. I have a relative who worked for Rubashkin at a fabric factory and there was no protection for the workers from the loud machinery, dyes, the excessive heat, etc and there were lots of illegal workers.
Now I get it. This article clears up a lot of confusion. So it was the corrupt UFCW that planted the illegal workers at Rubashkin and it was they that provided them with false identities. It was also the UFCW that planted 57 underage workers. They must have also acted in cahoots with the FSIS in planting salmonella laced products so that they would have all those health violations. And not to mention the EPA, the USDA and worker safety violations. What an elaborate scheme!
finally the truth… what an amazing video theyre showing!!
To all of you who have been touting Loshan Hora on Rubashkin while riding your high horse of self-righteousness, perhaps this article will give you pause to think.
What a shame. Suddenly we are all overly concerned about (alleged) lack of ethics. We shop in grocers, butchers (ye’ know, where they sell MEAT), restaurants and other venues without giving the slightest thought on the work ethics of the store owner. Every single orthodox Jew relies on the Hechsherim of OU, OK, and the like, (yes, even when you eat food with a Heimishe Hechsher such as Hisachdus, you still rely on OU, as almost every food includes ingredients which have only OU Hechsherim, such as food coloring, flavorings, etc.) without giving the slightest thought on the ethics of these companies are, including, mind you, that these companies are open on Shabbos.
What a pathetic shame. I can assure you we will pay for this war mongering and the spreading Loshon Hara and Rechilos.
Irrespective of the outcome of the allegations against Rubashkin, I strongly believe that every single one of us who voiced a derogatory opinion in public is required to ask Mechilah from Rubashkin. Bear in mind that the loss of business to Rubashkin due to this slandering cannot be established.
Good luck this Rosh Hashana. I hope you pat yourself in the back while you daven ehrlich. Don’t worry about the fact that Mr. Rubashkin is crying under his Tallis.
Don’t forget, we always have Empire chicken.
Bravo Bravo, LeiderLeider!!!
I’m laughing and saddened at the same time.
It’s all a conspiracy to get the Rubashkins.
How anyone can say KAJ did not pull their Hashgacha for Kashrus reasons is a joke when the termination letter has been posted on the Internet.
As I recall, KAJ’s letter referred to serious kashrus concerns.
Still think they are so innocent?
Those who believe that this or ANY other positive finding that vindicates Rubashkin will be accepted by the vicious ‘Loshan Horah’ Mongers of this world is making a big mistake.
Their agenda and hatred will never allow them to
admit that they are wrong – they will say that anyone finding anything positive is obviously in Rubashkins back pocket etc. Nebech they are sick
and need therapy to cleanse themselves of their filthy hatred/speech.
the article says a saintly looking mr. rubashkin, looking saintly and acting saintly are 2 different things
i wonder who paid for the video to be made
KAJ said pretty explicitly it had nothing to do with kashrus. Otherwise why would they keep providing hasgacha 3 months after supposed “kashrus violations.” This piece of motzi shaim ra was proven false quite a while ago. let sleeping dogs lie.
Rabboisai, please let’s all take a step back and allow the government to conclude its investigations. All we can do is speculate on what happened and what is currently happening in Iowa. Enough with these posts, please.
Thanks for showing the “other side of the story” but i’m still troubled about the almost 400 illiegals they hired and about the underage kids working there. The law is the law is the law!
I am only quiet because I feel that once Rabbi Lerner’s naivite gave you someone to hide behind, I have little chance of being heard.
Speaking ill of others to no purpose is lashon hara.
But do not take this to mean that I think Rabbi Lerner got to the bottom of the matter. They had 2 weeks to set up a Potemkin Village, that’s all.
-micha
Every US manufacturing corporation the size of Rubashkins is not 100% glatt. Of course they hire illegals because their competitors do, and if they wouldn’t they would go under. But the Unions took advantage of a PR stunt to ‘expose’ what can be exposed in any US industrial corporation. But those corporations who pay the mafia are protected. The rest have to suffer their fate. And when you have a cocktail of mafia and anti semitism, you get what Rubashkin is experiencing now. And those mafianaires and anti semites are getting plenty of help from ‘frum yidden’ who hate Rubashkins just because they are Lubavitch. For lack of a better term, you have this axis of evil, but at the end of the day Hashem runs the world and Rubashkins pockets…
The New York Slimes will dig up anything to knock down Israel and to slander Jews. If Loshon Hora did not exist, The New York Slimes would invent it.
I will always remember the trucks lined up on Wednesdays and Thursday to give away tons of free chicken, meat and groceries to Tomchei Shabbos so they in turn could deliver to individual families for free. The jealous slaves of loshon hora somehow skip all the chesed to get to the richilus and slanderous gossip they thrive on.
let’sput everything in perspective.
Rabbi Lerner is not an expert in Kashrus, Labor laws, USDA, immigration law, Osha or anythng even remotely resembling a work environment. HE went there with pre-concieved notions (remember the conference call where he stuck his neck out to show how much he was with rubashkin.
Local 174 in New York must be a poster child for the the UFCW. Every president of that local for the past 50 years has either been arested or removed from office. Every president.
Look at the Kosher plants that had a contract with them. Hebrew National left New York because of the union. Mogen David, Isaac Gellis, Shofar – you never heard of them because they were not glatt. They all closed up because of the union. they were bigger than Rubashkin.
What’s left? The union did not cause the immigration problem, the child labor law problem or any other problem that Rubashkin is experiencing now. True or not true? Is it loshon Hara for me to say or for Rubashkin to admit that?
I made up my mind long ago about this issue, so I have not been reading many of the daily articles about the troubles at Rubashkin – but I am amazed at today’s comments: most of the critics of Rubashkin seem to present level-headed, clearly expressed and clearly reasoned arguments. On the other hand, the supporters of Rubashkin seem to take refuge in highly emotional name calling, using words such as filth and slime,and accusing others of jealousy and hate. Its really very sad!
The Rabbis who traveled to Postville did so on a junket fully paid by Rubashkin. How in the world can they possibly be impartial if they have such cash hanging out of their pockets?
I agree with Yom-Tov, above. I’d like to hear intellectual, logically constructed arguments from Rubashkin supporters that don’t involve name-calling or throwing around hateful terms like “chilul hashem” in every sentence.
Yes, it’s bad that a Jewish-owned company committed hundreds of counts of criminal acts. But this is the time to FIX it and come clean and start from scratch. If it means jail terms for the management who sanctioned these crimes, then so be it. But don’t think for one minute that a “haimeshe” Jew like Aaron Rubashkin should be immune from the law because he looks and talks like one of you. That’s just ridiculous.
LeiderLeider… Says:
What a shame. Suddenly we are all overly concerned about (alleged) lack of ethics. We shop in grocers, butchers (ye’ know, where they sell MEAT), restaurants and other venues without giving the slightest thought on the work ethics of the store owner.
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They did not create a chillul Hashem. Rubashkin did.
Every single orthodox Jew relies on the Hechsherim of OU, OK, and the like, (yes, even when you eat food with a Heimishe Hechsher such as Hisachdus, you still rely on OU, as almost every food includes ingredients which have only OU Hechsherim, such as food coloring, flavorings, etc.) without giving the slightest thought on the ethics of these companies are, including, mind you, that these companies are open on Shabbos.
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Goyim are allowed to do what ever they want. A frum yid that has the ‘highest level of kashrus’ should not rely on kulas like hefsed meruba to be mechallel shabbas. Are you mechallel Shabbas in YOUR home? Why tolerate it from another ‘frum’ yid??
What a pathetic shame. I can assure you we will pay for this war mongering and the spreading Loshon Hara and Rechilos.
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It will stop when Rubashkin asks responsibly like the 4 other Glatt meat companies. Why is Rubashkin so special??
Irrespective of the outcome of the allegations against Rubashkin, I strongly believe that every single one of us who voiced a derogatory opinion in public is required to ask Mechilah from Rubashkin. Bear in mind that the loss of business to Rubashkin due to this slandering cannot be established.
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How many frum butcher stores are out of business because Rubashkin wanted to make more money by selling Kosher meat to Goyish supermarkets?? Let’s see – Philadelphia, Washington Heights, Phoenix. All frum prople that supported yeshivot, shuls, mikva, etc. And who got the business? A bunch of goyim? Did Rubashkin ask mechila from them for RUINING their parnosa? I bet you would say that this is business and all is fair in business. Well, what goes around, comes around.
Good luck this Rosh Hashana. I hope you pat yourself in the back while you daven ehrlich. Don’t worry about the fact that Mr. Rubashkin is crying under his Tallis.
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And so are the owners of the businesses in Philadelphia, phoenix and Washington heights tat went out of business because of the Rubashkins.
No one is here to claim that Rubashkin hasn’t had ethical issues. This is for the court to decide.
What disturbing is the double standard applied by the anti-Rubashkin crowd. As I posted previously, the “Oilem” doesn’t seem to particularly concerned about anyone’s ethics and moral. They will eat in any restaurant and buy meats and other edibles from any store that has a proper Hechsher (to the extent they eat from that Hechsher).
So the question arises why suddenly everyone is concerned about the “Kashrus” of Rubashkin? Since when is ethics a factor in determining Kashrus?
Now, you may have an argument that this SHOULD be a factor. I don’t necessarily disagree with that. However, it does not seem to be a factor with other companies, so I can’t imagine why it’s suddenly such a terribly important thing with Rubashkin.
To anonymous 11:19 –
No it is not true.
The Archdioses and St. Bridget’s Catholic Church contacted Rav Lerner and Rav Eliezrei beefore their visit to Postville to invite all of the Rabbis to meet with local clergy and current and former workers so they could learn for themselves about conditions. A neutral venue was chosen, the local multicultural center so they would not have to meet at a Church.
The decision by Rabbonim Lerner and Eliezre to actually have a meeting came late and with conditions. They were quite specific that they didn’t want to meet with workers – only with Church people.
After they decided to meet the venue had to be changed because the Multicultural Center had been booked. They decided to meet at the St. Paul’s Lutheran Church facility.
Much has been said about the meeting. To hear what happened, I suggest you listen to the intervew that took place at the local radio station, KPVL with the Church officials. I think Failed Messiah has it on their website.
Rav Lerner did suggest that they set up a liaison community group to meet with the Rubashkins every few weeks to go over problems but with a caveat: the community group could include union members or liberal Jews! Thats about as rediculous as it comes: Should they community group then have the right to dictate who would represent the Rubashkin? Maybe the community groups could insist that Shmarya or Yudel Shain represent Rubashkin!
Listen to both reports and decide for yourself.
“community group could include union members or liberal Jews!”
Oops, should have read community group could NOT include union members or liberal Jews.
Re: Fed Up Reform Jew
Why don’t you just stop buying Rubashkin meat? (oh i forgot, u’re a Reform jew, kosher is just as subjective as being jewish to u ppl)
HEY ALL YOU SICKOS ,
if Rabbi learner would bash the the rubashkins then you would stick up for him ,but since he stuck up for the rubashkins then he is not an expert ect… all i can say most of you guys don’t even know were Iowa is located on the map ,and yet you know exactly what is going on in the plant ..shame on you all …stop beliving everything you here ,before this raid on the rubashkins ,they were considerd from the nicest and most honest people in the comunity ,all of a sudden every one has an apinion !!!!!!!!!!!
LeiderLeider… Says:
…….
However, it does not seem to be a factor with other companies, so I can’t imagine why it’s suddenly such a terribly important thing with Rubashkin.
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Because of the sheer numbers. This was not an exception to the rule, this was the rule. They only caught 390 people, but the entire tnight shift of 400 more people left town. That is, by their estimates, 65-70 of the work force.
You want to hire 1-2 people in your oizza shop, fine. I will live with that. But from 390 (at the minimum) to 790 (maximim) – that is too excessive.
To all those Rubashkin haters out there who are claiming that the Rabbis visit is worthless b/c it was paid for by rubashkin, consider this.
A flight from NY to Minnesota costs roughly 300$ and yes that part was paid for by Rubashkin. But what about the 2 days of their own work/time that they had to give up?what about all the things they had to put on hold in order to come down and visit? Any body who ever flew to Postville can tell you its a extremely big hassle, they had to fly to MIN. then take a 3 hr bus trip each way! Never mind a nights stay in a hotel. (and I can Promise you it wasnt in the “Hilton”)
If you trully are as “Open minded” and “logical” as you claim to be, you would see past the cost of the initial fight cost that was paid by the Rubashkins and relize that just b/c they are defending Rubashkin when its not popular Doesnt mean they are in bed with them!!!
And as to you MR. MEATLOAF before you start ripping in to the Rabbis for their whole thing with the Church members, how about this.
The Latino Congress or couces (what ever its called) was in POstville on the day of your big Rally to hear from former agri workers. When contacted by Agri Reps to hear their side of the story all they could replie was “we dont have time”. Maybe you ripped and loughed at them and pointed out how redicules that sounds.
They came on a “fact finding mission” But only had time for one side of the story!?!?! Maybe you commented on how the baiscs of justice is hear from both sides before passing judgment.
Maybe you did and I just missed it. OR maybe….
5:11 You have no idea what he eats or does not eat neither do I , I think the issue is Rubashkin meat are the kashuras issues , are they open shabbos , do they have reliable masgichim . . to call names is easy but meaningless . focus on the issue .
To Reform Jew
I apologize on behalf of the Frum Jews here who insult you (in this case Tsvika55). I am sorry you haven’t yet experienced the beauty of a Torah true lifestyle (& I’m honestly not being patronizing) but I am ashamed of the nastiness that some of my fellow posters exhibit. Please understand that nastiness & humiliation is NOT part of a Frum life. Most of us do not ascribe to this attitude, even if we disapprove of your way of life. It’s your life & just as I am entitled to respect, so too are you. Fanaticism & intolerance should be answered no matter who the attacker may be. I hope this post stays on.
So all these rabbi’s are impartial due to the fact that rubashkin helped pay the trip?
The entire OU and weismandel, CH kosher, shochtim, mashgichim etc.. are ALL in rubashkin’s pocket?
I think you have been reading barry chamish’s book’s
If the OU is being paid off here, what says the OU isnt being paid off elsewhere ?
Rubashkin also has OK no? maybe he pays them off too.
Maybe he paid off my 17 year old cousin who’s a buki in shechita k’halacha and learnt 1 year in yeshiva in postville and was in the plant many many times and says it’s all mehadrin min hamahadrin….
Theres something called “allegations” once a black girl claimed she was raped by white men and it started a riot.. she later came out saying it was made up… there will always be sharpton’s and a oilem goilem that grabs on to this drek.
Once a girl claimed she was raped by the duke lacrosse team.. and had em arrested and ruined their lives and later admited to lying.
If you say birchat hashkamat hashachar, we say “sh’tatzilainu hayom….. m’eidus sheker” save us today from bearing false whiteness.
Whats eidus sheker? theres a persecuting malach named “samach mem” who incites the jews to bear eidus sheker against a fellow jew.
Really, is rubashkin’s work ethics and “alleged” violations of the law… the lashon hara.. the eidus sheker, the many many aveiros involved really worth it ?
How can you beg mechillah if you are wrong ? is the chilel hashem his “alleged” actions or you bashing of a fellow jew, is this l’shem shamayim?!?
Are YOU 4:06PM a expert at halacha and labor laws, the running of a factory etc…?
To those that attacked the rubashkin defenders as not having logically constructed arguments…. as we say in hebrew “ma pitom”
You want logic ? you want sechel? sechel says that being a jew that cares for halacha means you dont bad mouth a fellow jew!!
Remember the famous story, I forget the tzadik’s name, he was at a inn and 3 guys come to eat, they cross examine the owner regarding the meat, the shechita, the cooking etc.. etc..
Then they speak devorim betailim, they speak lashon hara etc.. so the tzadik interrupts them and says “you are so worried about what goes in your mouth, what about what goes out?”
Theres no logic in defeding rubashkin, because I am not defending rubashkin…
To chas v’shalom accuse the entire rubashkin family of selling traifos, that shochtim and mashgichim from ALL walks of life are ignoring kashrus violations..
That the hechsherim are being paid off to ignore am yisrael eating traif.. this to me is not defending rubashkin.
When the satan hears your eidus sheker, he goes in front of the ribono shel olam.. he points down and says LOOK YOUR CHILDREN HAVE SINNED!! LET ME HAVE A FREE HAND!!
Choit chattah yerushalayim…. we will read eicha in 3 days… we will mourn the churban and the holocaust the followed..
I ask you again all you masters of logic… all you brilliant writters… Is it worth it ?
Is it worth the damage you are causing to klal yisrael? is it worth the false testimony ? “zomim oso k’asher zamam”
And I warn you! Tread lightly…because your giving ammunition to the satan!
I remind you of what was done to hatzadik rav moshe chaim luzato..his seforim destroyed.. and the baal hatanya too…
And in years by gone it was the gemaras burnt on eidus sheker by meshumadim…
And I repeat.. is it worth it ? is it your achrayos to “expose rubashkin” from your computer, from what YOU heard…
al cheit shechatanu lifanecha b’chachas uvechazav (false denial and lying)
V’al cheit shechatanu lifanecha b’lashon hara (evil talk about another)
V’al cheit shechatanu lifanecha b’flilus (passing judgement)
al cheit shechatanu lifanecha bitzdiyas yad (scheming against a fellow man)
v’al cheit shechatanu lifanecha b’rchilus (tale bearing)
v’al cheit shechatanu lifanecha b’sinas chinam (causeless hatred))
Now lower your head and klap your chest…
V’al kulam eloka slichos, slach lanu, mechol lanu, kaper lanu…
To 7:37
You are all over the place. All I see is what you ‘heard’ from a 17 year old who knows more that a shoichet who worked for 40 years, to claims that I only heard you make that all the massgichim are in Rubashkin’s pocket to claiming the we are doing to klal yisroel.
We didn’t do anything. We just sat on the sidelines and watch a company implode by itself. I have seen written time and time again that NO ONE WANTS HARM TO COME TO THE RUBASHKINS AND THEIR COMPANY, but you ignore that also and decide to give us mussar while the Rubashkins do not need any.
But in direct answer to your question to me, 4:06. Yes, I am an expert in Halacha, labor laws and the running of a factory. It is ossible to have all three. I have tried to be logical, but have wasted it on you. What are your credentials?
To Anon@6:44 – I used to be much more religious. Much of why I abandoned a “Torah lifestyle” had to do with the subjective morality of the rabbis and fellow Jews I encountered. I respect your choice of lifestyle, but I feel that many on this board don’t respect mine.
I made my life decisions, and I’m a Jew. I probably don’t look like you, don’t eat the same foods, and may not even love the same kinds of people.
I had a bris, a bar mitzvah, I read Torah, and keep many of the mitzvot. But I was also hurt very deeply by people who claimed to be “moral authorities” of Judiasm. So understand where I’m coming from here when I think the hypocrisy over Rubashkin (and many others) has to stop.
9:33
Thats not a reason, thats a excuse, no one has a copyright on judaism.. we serve g-d. One can place the blame where they like.. see the story in gemara avoda zara 17a regarding elazer ben durdaya a famous robber and dinner, he sought to repent, he started by placing his blame on his parents, envirement, affluence, his mazal…
Ein hadavar talui ela bi — It all depends on me, I am totally responsible for my actions.
Please do not try to place blame on rubashkin, the hole reb zusha of anipoli would say “in beis din shel maaleh they will ask, why werent you zushe!”
Bottom line you can all criticize, you have any other major player here in the US? are you going to eat frozen imported from israel, or any other country???? You can analyze whichever you like or critisize.. This is min hashomayim, and he’ll come back much stronger and larger than before..Watch my word..
A three-hour tour could not uncover the extensive, “egregious” child labor
violations that the Iowa state labor commissioner reported to the state attorney general just five days after the rabbis left town. The labor commissioner said he had “never seen anything like it” in his 30 years in the field, according to JTA. He recommended that the allegations be prosecuted “to the fullest extent of the law.” But it took him months to gather the facts. Three hours wouldn’t suffice.
Three hours wouldn’t turn up the voluminous evidence of abuse gathered by the Forward when we first broke the Agriprocessors story two years ago. We found compelling indications of sexual harassment, shorted wages, favoritism and bribery in work assignments, inadequate safety training and horrific work accidents in the place we called a “Kosher Jungle.” But our reporter spent a week in Postville, interviewing current and former workers, merchants, officials and community leaders. He visited homes and viewed pay stubs, rent receipts and food and medical bills. Our staff spent months more on the phone with federal and state officials, academics, food industry experts and others. It took us more than three hours.
If the rabbis didn’t want to believe us, they could have consulted the public record — the archive of complaints brought and fines imposed on the company by state and federal authorities, year after year, for health, safety, food contamination and environmental pollution violations.
Well, we are reminded, meatpacking is a notoriously messy business. That’s true. What’s different about Agriprocessors is the sheer scope and scale of it all. The immigration raid last May, mounted by 16 different federal, state and local government agencies, was described by authorities as the largest such raid ever mounted against one firm. The child labor charges reported this month are described by officials and experts as unusual if not unique in scale for a single firm. And so it goes, in one category after another.
This is a company that is, by any reasonable standard, what the Talmud would call mu’ad.
This newspaper has been roundly criticized in the past two years for supposedly mixing apples and oranges — questioning the company’s kosher certification because of its behavior in areas unrelated to the dietary rules. But they’re not unrelated. As Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld wrote in The New York Times last week, character is critical in judging kosher food. If a supervisor or operator routinely violates some essential religious laws, how can he be trusted to enforce other laws? Restaurants and butcher shops in this country cannot receive Orthodox kosher certification if they do business on the Sabbath. Hotels in Israel lose their certification if they host unapproved forms of entertainment. Character counts, not just precision slaughtering.
The rabbis who visited Postville appear to disagree. They concluded, judging by their public statements, that the facility passes muster. That is, whatever allegations may have been made, they do not merit serious attention — nothing deeper than a quick walkthrough. They said, in effect, that this is an ox without a record.
But there is a long record. Agriprocessors is one of a network of businesses owned by the Rubashkin family, a large, tight-knit clan identified with the Lubavitch community in Brooklyn. The operations, like the family, may be considered a package.
The family patriarch and company founder, Aaron Rubashkin, came here from the Soviet Union in 1945 and opened a kosher butcher shop. In time the shop became Agriprocessors, the country’s largest — and dominant — kosher meat producer, run for many years by Aaron’s son Sholom Rubashkin.
While Sholom ran the meat business, his brother Moshe operated a string of ventures, mainly in textiles and real estate, mostly in partnership with other relatives. One of the most colorful was a textile mill he ran in Allentown, Pa., but closed in 2000. A year after shutting it down, Moshe was convicted of failing to obtain workers’ compensation insurance after a former employee was denied benefits. While on probation, he ended up with a conviction for bank fraud due to some checks that he wrote. He was sentenced to 15 months in federal prison and got out on parole in 2005.
Shortly after release, he was elected president of the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, a government funded agency closely controlled by the Lubavitch community.
ב״ה
Postville—Sitting at the Immigrant’s Table
It seems plenty of people have something to say about Agriprocessors and its workers since May 12. Tell me this: Who routinely spoke with them before May 11, when hardworking people walked freely in and out of the plant? I did. Speaking several languages very well, I have been going to the immigrant businesses that have opened in Postville in recent years, and make a point to show them my support and buy from them. I have shared snacks and soft drinks on rides with workers from the plant, I have been in the homes of workers from different countries, and discussed life and work in Postville. With a booming Midwest economy during the past decade, when folks could pick and choose where to work, people kept coming to Postville to build a better life for their families. Where did I get the idea to show respect to these workers and build up these businesses? From modeling what I learned from the Rubashkin family—do mitzvos, work hard, give tzedakah, and help build up others to do the same.
Am I biased? You bet! The Rubashkins showed me by example, and encouraged me by being the first customer of one of my businesses. But I would say it’s because for years I’ve been delivering a portion of the tzedakah they send out in the Midwest—quietly, without announcements or names on buildings, just as a routine matter. That gives me a biased view of who is building a business that makes it easier for you and me to keep kosher, because I have the unique honor of seeing some of the miracles their tzedakah does, without their asking for any acknowledgment.
Is the world turned on its head? I kept thinking that those vicious rumors would blow over quickly—after all, I know the workers and management and have been inside the plant dozens of times and seen random inspections over the past 14 years. I have met some of the full-time USDA inspectors who are watching to be sure that all employees are following health and safety standards for food processing. I have escorted some of the leaders of kosher organizations from around the world, who come for routine inspections and to meet with their independent supervisors inside the plant. When the whole world has full-time witnesses there, the only thought that should come to people’s mind is, Why listen to nonsense generated by sensational reports?
There is sympathy to go around, yes; there is tragedy in the families that are at a loss and in a time of uncertainty with the breadwinner sent away. But take up the dispute with Congress and the immigration policy. As an employer and a working court interpreter, I make a point to be familiar with the laws in this arena. Without getting into the specifics of any particular case, I do know it is currently up to employees to present their identification to the employer and then it is up to a company not to discriminate against any class of employee. Congress rejected immigration reform last year that would have submitted the records of all current and future employees to a central verification system.
A reporter asked me if I had spoken to the Rubashkins about the events of May 12th. No, I have not—because everything I need to know I learned from speaking with workers before that date already, unlike most others writing about it. An honest person needs to look at himself and ask what he truly knows, and I will put everything on the table right now and put my lot in with the Rubashkins. Let us remember the dictum to judge favorably, and the importance of seeing how each of us can increase in mitzvos.
J Saphira
Rebbe Says:
Bottom line you can all criticize, you have any other major player here in the US?
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What was before Rubashkin came along? We had Empire chicken, David Elliot poultry, etc. We still do. A few new players vame along like Marvid from CAnada. They will ramp up and meet the demand.
What about meat? Alle, INternational, Star-K- all can increase production to meet the demands. I see no problems. Other shechitas will open up like Monsey Glatt, Kiryas Yoel, etc who git bigger lately.
are you going to eat frozen imported from israel, or any other country????
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Israel cannot send and beef, only processed turkey meat. We already have meat from South America that fills the void. We can use some more and the prices will be cheaper.
You can analyze whichever you like or critisize.. This is min hashomayim,
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You are correct. Hakol beydey Shomayim chutz mi’yiras shomayim. That being the case, instead us blaming us, you might look to se who does not have the proper Yiras Shomayim and give THEM mussar. I am not HAshem’s accountant and I do not even pretend to know why things happen. Since you are hashem’s accountant, maybe tell us more…
and he’ll come back much stronger and larger than before..Watch my word..
08-07-2008 – 11:06 PM
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If he straightens up and corrects both what is wrong in the plant and outside of the plant, then he might have a chance. But if he still claims that he did nothing wrong and you are his amen chorus to back him up, then there might be a different outcome than what you expected
” I do know it is currently up to employees to present their identification to the employer and then it is up to a company not to discriminate against any class of employee. Congress rejected immigration reform last year that would have submitted the records of all current and future employees to a central verification system. ”
J Saphira
Nicely and eloquently written. I have a few questions –
The Rubashkins knew that they had a problem with the employees. They already said to an appeals court that they put the names into a data base and many, many employees came bask as illegals. They had legal grounds to terminate at that point. Wht didn’t they? And if they didn’t, whose is to blame??
The USDA writes violations only if the plant does not act on them first. The usda saw fit to write over 250 violations last year. The average plant of that size gets 50. Some of the violations were serious – letting cattle that might have mad cow disease get into the food supply. Where was plant management on that?
There were 2 major food recalls from Agri. One was for undercooked food (that still has bacteria that might be harmful to children) and the other was for undeclared allergans in products. It was so serious that there was a national recall on those items. The average plant has zero recalls. Where was plant management?
It is a Kiddush Hashem when the plant management operates in a frum ehrlich way. It is a chillul Hashem when they don’t.
Again, we all want Rubashkin to prosper. But when they do things to themselves and the minions loudly proclain that it was the UFCW, it was those mean bloggers, it was those Lashon Hara’nicks, no one was ever indicted, what do you want both the goyish world and the yiddishe oilem to do?
Yom tov shel golius, and reformed jerk
To the unabashed liars that continue to post the Motzee shem ra (lies) on Rubashkin, it is motzee shem ra as opposed to loshon hara which is false. The world of information is at your finger tips. But keep ignoring it and bash Rubashkin. KAJ withdrew supervision on several months notice because of the difficulty in getting people to commute 2000 miles everyweek from washington heights to postville. you could intentionally mistranslate their letter which read “Due to difficulties in providing kashrus supervision” but the intent was confirmed by telephone interveiw:
“KAJ officials said the problem was related to the access of its rabbis in the plant and not because of any specific kashrut or employee rights issues. Eric Erlbach, president of KAJ, said that his organization had nothing to do with the ad and did not allege any violations of health or kashrut law.”
jstandard 3/28/2008
Still have problems? Pick up the phone and call Rabbi Edelstein.
There are dozens of rabbanim and mashgichim not to mention Govt inspectors running all over the plant all day long. All these rabbanim (many of them not Lubavitch) are all looking the other way on treifus? Reb Nussen Spiegel who left empire because he had reached the limit on the improvements they allowed him to implement is looking the other way when they sell treif from Rubashkin?? The Satmar Rav R’ Aharon Teitelbaum looked the other way when he visited Rubashkin and saw them selling treif and then praised their schechitah???
The continuing call for prosecution of rubashkin because of…? What? Because workers trying to get a good job provided false documentation that Rubashkin was not legally required to double check? Three months after the raid there are no charges pending against Rubashkin and a group of self righteous haters continues to call for them to “Straighten up”
For the umpteenth time Swift beef and pork had 1300 workers arrested Dec 12, 2006. Go to the ICE.GOV website and search “swift beef and pork marshalltown iowa”
The real proof in the pudding is that the Rubashkin haters speak out of both sides of their mouth. a typical quote would be “Rubashkin broke the law and hired illegals and he should be punished for abusing (false) and not paying minimum wage (false) and not allowing the illegal workers that he shouldn’t have hired in the first place to unionize.
Read further up the page. It’s all there. Reformed Jew, I’m glad you’re happy to have found an excuse to be frei. But I can assure you, the poorest people I know probaly give more tzedokah and do more chesed then all your reform friends put together.
“liars” “jerk” “hater” The nasty tone of matzahlocal101 was probably enough to confirm Reformed Jew that he has made some correct lifestyle decisions.