New York - Agudath Israel To Ban Hekhsher Tzedek |
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The organization’s highly respected Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah (Council of Torah Sages) is said to have authorized the organization to publicly oppose the new symbol initiated by Rabbi Morris Allen, a Conservative rabbi from Minneapolis who subsequently obtained the endorsement of the Conservative rabbinate.
Sources say that Agudath Israel’s position will be consistent with the position taken by other mainstream Orthodox organization and certifying agencies, which basically oppose the broadening of the traditional definition of kosher, despite Rabbi Allen’s assertions that the new symbol would be in addition to the traditional kashrus symbol. The organization is scheduled to release its position in the coming days, virtually assuring that the Hekhsher Tzedek symbol will not be accepted by kosher businesses and the majority of core kosher consumers. Kashrus organizations, headed by the Orthodox Union, have argued that they fully rely on government oversight to protect consumers from the ethical considerations that the Conservative movement is concerned about.
The Hekhsher Tzedek issue has become the focus of widespread media attention, including a front page article in Saturday’s New York Times, but most media sources have failed to make the point that the Hekhsher Tzedek is opposed across the board in the Orthodox community. Even rabbis who would welcome the kind of concern for ethics that Rabbi Allen is advocating, are questioning how the standard could be practically implemented, why it is applied only to kosher foods and not to all Jewish-owned businesses (or, for that matter, non-Jewish), and how the kosher consumer could afford to fund such a new certification at a time of rapidly rising food prices.
The debate surrounding the Hekhsher Tzedek symbol largely revolves around the beleaguered Agriprocessors plant in Postville, Iowa, which continues to be beset by an ongoing onslaught of allegations. On Friday, the Iowa Department of Labor slapped the company with $101,000 in fines for 31 alleged violations, 8 of which dealt with one extension cord. Agriprocessors had hired a former OSHA official who told a group of 20 visiting Orthodox rabbis on July 31st that the plant was “99% compliant with federal and state OSHA requirements.”
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Read Comments (39) — Post Yours »
1
Aug 26, 2008 at 12:13 PM Chaim S. Says:
Any intelligent person should be appalled at the unmitigated nerve of an institution such as the Conservative movement, which openly condones eating treif foods of any kind, in espousing a so called "Hechsher" of any kind.
2
Aug 26, 2008 at 12:30 PM Anonymous Says:
I dont get it! Why are we at all busy with them? I dont see any difference between a Conservative institution to a Christian or anything else!
Tomorrow Agudeh will Ban "Halal Meats" I guess!
3
Aug 26, 2008 at 12:55 PM jj Says:
Agudah why dont you start banning weddings that spend too much . Go ban schools that dont do backround checks on teachers.
4
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:07 PM Pesach Josh Hank Haleivy Says:
This is a whle bunch of bull. The conservative are the same as the reform and the same as the non aligned and the same as the goi on the street. What hechsher they want to give? for whom? They need no hechsher They eat treif .this is all to grab a few bucks,,
5
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:07 PM Genius Says:
This is the first step in the Orthodox/Chareidi world showing that we will not have our hechsherim compromised by allowing other organizations to call their food stamp a hechsher.
Hopefully they will continue along this vein and show the world what real yiddishkeit is all about and not a watered down version propagated by fringe groups.
6
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:08 PM Torah Jew Says:
Chaim,
I agree with you 100%... Still it is important to formally create a ban. Many religious yidden dont know it is 100% halachicly unacceptable to attend a goys wedding at a xtian church. Why because it isnt openly discussed and addressed. For that matter davening at a reform Temple is treyf and 100% forbidden but how many yidden know this?
7
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:15 PM Anonymous Says:
Chaim S., you are wrong. The Conservative movement does not openly condone eating treif food. They do that covertly.
8
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:20 PM yenta pesha Says:
the whole conservative movement is a hechser that's mikabel tumah!!!!! it's one big sheretz!!!!
9
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:37 PM Anonymous Says:
Why are we legitimizing them by banning them?
10
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:48 PM benjy Says:
why doesnt aguda ban arabic hallal food ? Because there is no need . Then why are they banning conservative hechsherim.?
I dont see then banning other hecherim which are very u8nacceptable to them? why because they dont feel threatened ? so why bother here?
Go ban yeshivas that hire rabbeim with ouit backround checks do some something more constructive as jj said.
11
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:53 PM Moishe Says:
They should look at how the workers that print their conservative prayer books, clean their conservative temples, valet park their cars at temple, make the robes their clergy wear,and maintain their temple sound systems, gromm their golf courses are treated. This special ethical hechsher should not be limited to kosher food. On this one issue the conservative movement shouldn't compromise.
12
Aug 26, 2008 at 01:54 PM CR Says:
Much ado about nothing, I think. Substantively the Hekhsher Tzedek offers little that isn't already covered either by legal statute or by AFL-CIO/Democratic Party platform planks.
I predict that H"Tz will become a "kashrus" also-ran much as the Masorti movement is a marginal component of Israel's religious communities. They'll get a handful of compliant companies but hardly enough to call it a significant "movement". Just tolerate, marginalize and ignore this business as it is not worth the effort to combat.
13
Aug 26, 2008 at 02:00 PM mt mehdi Says:
Hopefully they will continue along this vein and show the world what real yiddishkeit is all about and not a watered down version propagated by fringe groups.
-------------
Based on the stories I have been reading recently on VIN about Orthodox Jews, what are we so proud of?
14
Aug 26, 2008 at 02:13 PM deepthinker Says:
There are many well-meaning, but relligiously-ignorant Jews, who might be fooled by this fraudulent "HechSher."
Thank G-D, we have such a great organization, like Agudas Yisroel, to shine the light of truth on these fakes, phonies, and frauds!
15
Aug 26, 2008 at 02:17 PM Genius Says:
Orthodox Jews are not Orthodox Judaism!
As a famous Rabbi often says (I cant recall his name now) "Don't judge Judaism by the Jews, judge it on the Torah".
16
Aug 26, 2008 at 02:29 PM Torah Academy of BC Says:
Horim Yikarim,
I hope you and your family are well and had a restful and productive summer.
As I am sure you are aware, several weeks ago a member of our community was arrested for allegedly engaging several young boys in an inappropriate fashion. Two weeks ago, I alerted everyone that parents speak to their children and encourage them to come forward and report any instance of abuse. I take this opportunity to share with you the sentiments of HaRav Herschel Schachter, in this regard. He stated that we have a sacred obligation to protect all children in our community and to fulfill the mandate ובערת הרע מקרבך . In the absence of a Bet Din that can address this type of issue in a serious fashion, it is not only permitted to report such episodes to the local authorities but one is obligated to do so. If the allegations are true as strong a case as possible is needed for the prosecutor.
There are two phone numbers that I want to share with you. The first is the hotline to the Prosecutor's office manned by Sergeant Alan Lustman, 201-226-5155. The second is that of a trained frum psychologist in our area, Dr. Stephen Glicksman, who is willing to talk to any student or to parents who would like to discuss how to approach these sensitive issues with your children. Children and parents will maintain their confidentiality should they call. His number is 718-670-3290.
I hope that we will be able to maintain the safe and protective environment that has enabled our community to flourish B'Ezras HaShem.
Beyedidut,
Rabbi Yosef Adler
17
Aug 26, 2008 at 02:45 PM Babishka Says:
Bottom line is, Conservative Jews who never paid attention to "hechsherim" will continue to ignore "hechsherim." What company will want to pay a premium for a bogus "hechsher" that will not increase their customer base?
18
Aug 26, 2008 at 02:49 PM mt mehdi Says:
As a famous Rabbi often says (I cant recall his name now) "Don't judge Judaism by the Jews, judge it on the Torah".
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So don't judge Conservative Judaism by Conservative Jews either.
19
Aug 26, 2008 at 03:07 PM Genius Says:
If you don't Conservative Judaism by Conservative Jews, what do you judge Conservative Jews on? The Torah that they don't listen to???
20
Aug 26, 2008 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:
Enough of the Conservative & Reform bashing! A jew is a jew...Let's keep to the issue of the so called Hekhsher. The difference between this Heksher and other conservative Hekshers is this one is not based on varying degrees of Kashrus but on a non-Torah interpretation of the meaning of Kashrus. Let's try to be aware that the words we use "conervative & reform are like a goy" is both false and disturbing. Moshiach certainly won't arrive till we figure this out
21
Aug 26, 2008 at 04:21 PM T Says:
Those who ask why Agudah Israel doesnt ban Hallal doesnt understand the fundamental problem posed by the conservative and all other apikores movements. These movements try to pass themselves off as valid forms of following Torah. They deceive many Jews into believing it really is a form of Judaism. They therefore a great threat to our future.
22
Aug 26, 2008 at 04:26 PM SDA Says:
If they would have banned Chilulei Hashem committed by frum companies, then Heksher Tzeddek would never have come into existence -- and they wouldn't have to ban it now.
23
Aug 26, 2008 at 04:34 PM Moving to the Left Says:
With Jews like all of you, who needs Hitler y"S. Whatever happened to v'ahavta l'raiacha. It's sickening. Can't we see that we are the biggest biggots. I am ashamed to call myself a frum yid. Mashiach will never come unless we face the facts that we are filled with hatred towards our fellow jews (regardless of observance). Why? No I see why the other jews dislike us. We're disgusting. Hashem y'rachem!
24
Aug 26, 2008 at 05:39 PM earl Says:
Dear moving to the left,
Keep moving left. We are happy to be rid of a degenerite like you. It is because of your ilk that Mashiach hasn't come and other Jews dislike us. You are a biggot always looking to attack the charedim.
25
Aug 26, 2008 at 05:49 PM T J Says:
Moving to the left,
What would cause you to compare anyone to Hitla yeshu? Is it because we put a fence around Torah and want to keep treyf apikores movements out of kashrus? Is it because we want to protect and preserve the Torah (inheritance of Jacob)? Are you one of those frum yidden who are pro abortion like Joe Lieberman? In all seriousness I was hoping you could tell me how any Jew can be both a frum yid and supporter of something which is completely against the Torahs teaching to the sanctify of human life.
26
Aug 26, 2008 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:
Many here are veering off the topic.
This Hechsher Zedek is not an orthodox organization therefore it is unacceptable to orthodox jews. Period. There is no compromising with certain aspects of judaism.
A couple of thousand years ago our sages went on the 1.day Pesach(fell on Shabbos) to harvest the grain they used for the Minchas Omer. All this to show that the 'halacha' is not like those guys who claimed trhat 'mimochros hashabos' meant Sunday > but to explain that it meant the next day after eating the 'korbon pesach'. (See the gemoroh for detailed explanation).
Once you start compromising with irreligeous elements you also start deviating from true Torah ways.
Let's keep to our old tradition. I applaud the Agudath Israel for their step taken.
27
Aug 26, 2008 at 06:21 PM Anonymous Says:
It is only because Rubashkin acted irresponsively that Hechsher Tzedek opened up their mouths.
It is only because the 'gedolim' did not chastise Rubashkin that Hechsher Tzedek tried to get their foot in the door.
If Agudah continues to this that all is fine in Postville, then Hechsher Tzedek will grow bigger and bigger.
That is something we do not want to see happen. Aguda must exchange Avi Shafran's rose colored glasses for clear ones so that they can see what is really happening.
28
Aug 26, 2008 at 08:08 PM meel mart Says:
T Says:
Those who ask why Agudah Israel doesnt ban Hallal doesnt understand the fundamental problem posed by the conservative and all other apikores movements. These movements try to pass themselves off as valid forms of following Torah. They deceive many Jews into believing it really is a form of Judaism. They therefore a great threat to our future.
08-26-2008 - 4:21 PM
---------------------------------------------
whith your logic the aguda should make a list of all conservative and reform shuls and say out publikly that none should daven there because ch`v someone maythink it is a kosher shul. This whole thing is all a way of showing the tru colors of the aguda and the ou. 1, that they are afraid of losing a very BIG account and @ they are afraid of losing to hecher tzedek . Its all a money concern and NOT any kosher worries.
Proof? because they have yet to admit that there ever was a problem at rubashkin, for the same reason of losing a very BIG account.
As loong as Rubashkin and other companies alike dont stop messing around then hechsher tzedek will keep on tooting its horn and same for PETA. If you want them to stop them cut all the BS and act like EHRLICHE people and not like FRUMaKEN!
29
Aug 26, 2008 at 08:26 PM AMG Says:
the orthdox rabbis never did anything to protect the rights of shochtim therefore if the conservative movement gets involved why should that be a problem it should be wellcome shochtim have been abused for tens of years and many orthdox rabbis knew about it and did nothing besides some noteable exceptions(nirbater rav) therefore this should be a wellcome developement because the conservative movement knows how to treat rabbis
and these butchers have plenty of money and if they could earn an additional $1,000.00 they would be willing to destroy the families of ten shochtim in the process
30
Aug 26, 2008 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:
why doesnt agudah ban men who do not give there wives a get.THEY SHOULD FOCUS ON MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES.
31
Aug 26, 2008 at 10:19 PM Ploni Ben Ploni Says:
Dear Rabbi Alan,
Your move was a CHEAP SHOT!!!
32
Aug 26, 2008 at 10:25 PM T Says:
meel mart and others,
Why does agudath Israel ban Hechsher Tzedek? Simply stated, they distort and pervert emess in the world. It reminds me of what is said in Bereshis Rabbah " When the pig pauses from his gluttony and lies down to rest he stretches out his foot to show his cloven hoof, and pretends that he belongs to the clean kind of animals."
Hechsher Tzedek has NOTHING to do with KASHRUS according to Torah. Again, it is 100% the product of liberal goyisha mindset of galus perverting emess of Torah.
33
Aug 27, 2008 at 12:22 AM SD Says:
To T: 10:25 PM
You're saying that a concern for the welfare of less fortunate human beings is 100% the product of liberal goyisha mindset of galus perverting emess of Torah?
Which Torah are you referring to?
Certainly not the one that came from Sinai, as that Torah is full of pasukim urging us to look out for the welfare of the less fortunate.
(That doesn't mean I support Heksher Tzeddek, but it does mean I support tzeddek)
34
Aug 27, 2008 at 01:45 AM LT Says:
A Bunch of Self-Rightous Frummies. Check yourselves out in the mirror first.
35
Aug 27, 2008 at 04:17 AM berl Says:
That is a no brainer, how in the world do clergymen of the conservative religion which is does not believe in Torah MiSinai and whose clergy themselves chose whether or not to eat traifos uneveilos, lobsters, crabs, clams, surf and turf, cheeseburgers,ham, pork, etc. who se clergy include homosexuals and lesbians, who desecrate shabbos in their temples with organs and microphones, condone their members to drive to temple, as well as desecrate shabbos at home in their personal life, whose only connection to Judaism is that they were accidentally and unwillingly born to Jewish mothers but practice a religion foreign to Judaism and Torah , have the temerity to mix into Kashrut which they do not believe in as a G-d given mitzvah?
They would prefer to eat free range grown pork killed by "humane" methods like a bolt in the head after it was stunned than kosher meat slaughtered halachically by a G-d fearing shochet.
Let them devote their time to practices they beleive in, let them go check out Purdue, Tyson and the other treif companies whose food they consume(without a bracha of course)
36
Aug 27, 2008 at 10:47 AM KANOY Says:
We would accomplish alot more if we banned the Agudah and its Moetzes. They have done more to damage Orthodoxy than some ill contrived hechsher can and will ever do.
37
Aug 27, 2008 at 10:47 AM Anonymous Says:
let me repeat what we said so tha I understand.
1) Hechsher Tzedek is a farce
2) If Rubashkin had a clean shop, we would never have heard about Morris Allen or his organization
3) If Agudah was on the ball, they would have critisized Rubashkin instead of Morris Allen
38
Aug 27, 2008 at 05:46 PM Belzer Chosid Says:
so a bottle of milk will cost an other 50 cents?
39
Aug 27, 2008 at 07:23 PM Moving to the Left Says:
Most of the "frum" people who are commenting here are people who have no respect for others. derech eretz kadma l'torah. Very little derech eretz here. wake up and smell the coffee...Agudah, OU, Rubashkin, aren't a bunch of saints.