Jerusalem – The struggle between secular and Orthodox Jews in the capital has reached the public parks. A family of ultra-Orthodox Jews attempting to spend a relaxed day in a park located in the secular Jerusalem neighborhood of Beit Hakerem were driven away from the area by a number of residents.
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The family arrived at the park with its children in tow on Monday evening, and attempted to have a picnic.
“The moment we arrived and sat on the benches at the entrance to the park, an elderly woman arrived and told us it wasn’t nice of us to take up the entire playground for her children,” one family member recounted.
“We didn’t want to fight with her, but other people began arriving and yelling at us. One woman sat next to my brother-in-law so he would get up. The secular Jews surrounding us began arguing over whether or not we should leave. Some said no and some said yes.”
The chaos upset the family. “The children began to cry because they were frightened by all of the yelling around us, so we went to the other end of the park where we thought we would have peace, but they just followed us,” said Moti, one of the family members.
He added that when they attempted to light a small grill to prepare food they were told to put it out immediately, but even when they did so, the yelling continued.
The family then decided to leave the park.
“What bothered me was that they just wanted to make us feel bad so we would leave. I was offended, it was excessive. We heard it was a nice park and wanted to spend time there, but we’ve never been so offended. We were driven out because we are haredim. My family and I will never go back there,” Moti concluded.
The Jerusalem Municipality responded by stating, “We strongly object to all cases of racism and violence. We hold educational programs aiming to encourage coexistence and a dialogue among the different sectors of society in the city.”
This s the worst kind of Hillul Hashem ever! Not even muslims in newyork do this to jews.
Moshiah !
In Israel we are also in galus wake up moshiach is not here yet they are lucky they were not hurt
Well, now the Charadim know how it feels when they protest and shove their ideology down the secular jew’s throat.
9.24 come on you are comparing muslims to highly educated elite modern secular israelis?……. hey only in Israel can something like this happen, in the so called democratic country.
What do you expect from a chiloni that has nothing in the inside, ever wonderd what would happen if there wouldnt be any hareidem in Israel? the Hareidem are their worst ememies becase by and large to the most part of it, they are quiet and decent citizens.
Its about time the seculars are fighting back . Cant blame them in the least . The day the charedim stop with thier shinanigans is the day the seculars will respect us. ITs all to be blamed on these charedi radicles and kanoim
“charadim now know how it feels”- my friend u are right and wrong! This morning I spoke to a non-religious friend in Israel. he told me specifically ” he cannot believe the hatred the nonreligious thruout Israel have to religious jews.
labor and the Left have instilled this hatred for decades. While some chareidim have imposed their
will on the secular society for the most part it has been wishing to preserve their shabbat or the quality of their life. All studies now show the extreme discrimination the seculars have had toward chareidim in govt and the israeli corporate world. The hatred of the secular is against all religous jews . Before they used to scream “no religous parasites go to the army”.
Today with 40% religous going to the army this self-jew -haters say “too many yarmulkes in the army”. And that isn’t even chareidim. The chareidimin have a free right to buy apts wherever anyone is willing to sell. The chareidim
in Israel have been discriminated much like the African Americans in the last 50 years in the US.
No discrimination is correct. The Chareidim have no right to do anything illegal against seculars and vice versa where the ingrained hatred is tenfold more by the left and seculars.
i find that secular israelis have a better shot at understanding a frum jew & even being chozer b’tshuva when they reach the shores of USA
The good news is that secular Israelis were fighting for the Orthodox. HaShem will help, and so will thousands of secular Israelis when Moshiach ben Yosef comes!
JJ-u call attacking innocent people in a public park”fighting back” . If they don’t want chareidim why are they all selling their apts to them and moving away?
Did u read the comments on the army and seculars a few comments back?
No one has a right to impose their will on anyone. In my buiilding in Fla. the conservative and reform
jews blocked us from having a shabbos elevator with for elevators for 40 families?
Most of the time the hareidi protests(not to say they are always right!) involve someone encroaching on their way of life which is a bit diffferent. They have a right to protest not buying in stores open on shabbos-it’s the democratic way.
But to say that attacking people in a park or for yeshiva boys to light fires in Ein Gedi is equally wrong. U have your democratic values mixed up. The seculars feel threatened by the religous and charedi way of life as in America too and attack more often the religous because of emotional hatred not vice versa. Most religous jews don’t hate seculars but see the sinat chinam they have. On my first trip to Israel 5 years ago a tel Aviv taxi driver said to me”if I had tochoose between shooting a datee or an Arab, I would shoot the jew in a second. A perfectly nice guy expressing how MOST CHILUNIM feelin israel. The reverse is an exception .
I stayed at the Kings Hotel in jerusalem during Tisha b’av helping with many American students also in the hotel and we were the majority (melachim hotel). The owner in NY is a true tzaddik.
We asked the hotel to serve fish during the nine days separately and cheaper than meat. Not only did the secular staff refuse but erev tisha b’av and motzoei hatzom they served fleischig and refused a majority of the guests . They were vicious!!!
This summer the media left in Israel blew up a story of Chareidim 400 people rented a hotel for the group and were promised separate swimming as like the Arabs would rent the same. The hotel mgr. not wanting to lose some money also rented rooms to chalonim and a war broke out. The story besmerched the religous jews all over the world for days. Who was right? The knesset al most passed a bill against separate swimminfg ever at hotels! Why ? because 400 people from Bnie Brak signed a DEAL AND RENTED A HOTEL? hONESTLY AND PAID FOR IT. tHEY WERE DISGREACED ALL OVER iSREAL BY THE SECULARS AND LEFT? AND U SAY THE PARK ATTACK IS RIGHT?
One troubling thing here that I don’t see mentioned yet … is that there was no recourse to any authority. The police can’t be called, because they are as anti-cheredi or moreso than the folks in the park. The “victimization” feeling of this story comes from the obvious complicity of the powers-that-be. Police and authority are unavailable to cheredim in most situations.
The seculars feel threatened because they have a pintele yiddishe neshama and their lives would be drastically changed if they adopted Torah values … not because their home and neighborhood is affected by cheredim or the cheredi way of life.
Dont you just love the intolerance of the tolerant? They want gay parades in Jerusalem but they dont want to allow a religious family a peaceful day in the park. This is what happens when news organizations have an agenda to demonize the charedi Jews so they will sell newspapers. Think about it logically, are any subscribers to these secular papers charedi? Of course not so they therefore cater to their secular audiance. In the news in general (not just in Israel) I have gradually seen charedi and orthodox Jews be depicted like monsters , being called names like “jewish taliban” by the liberal press. This is the physical affects of what happens when the secular believe these lies. We the religious NEED our own countering PR campaign to expose the lies perpetrated by the intolerant secular.
jj,
way to go blaming the victims!
SHUVU has made the largest dent in tolerance and respect bt religious and secular Jews.
You reap what you sow.
People who shove their chumras down peoples throat will never get anywhere or accomplish anything.
Rabbi Kamenetsky said this statement and Rabbi Kamenetsky is 1000% right!
When was the last time some chareidi guy made someone frum by throwing a rock at his head?
The proper response is to get the agreement of 100 families that every Shabbos they will commit to having that same exact playground filled with 25 families of children. THat means each family of the 100 goes there to play once a month.
The religious do not own the park but the secular don’t either. Let them learn to share.
It’s quite obvious that the hatred of the Chilonim to the Chareidim is growing concurrent with the recent new style of the Chareidim to attempt to impose their will on the Chilonim.
I am not opining whetehr this new style is right or not. All I want is for everyine to recognize that they go hand in hand.
Don’t expect to riot in the streets and yet receive utmost respect and adoration from the Chilonim.
Something tells me that this is only one side of the story…
Avrohom Abba, way to go!
Torah is Life
Shea:24 Says: “We the religious NEED our own countering PR campaign”
Easy enough, because actions speak louder than words.
Here are some negative “commandments” (with a small ‘c’) for you. Stop trying to make secular things illegal according to State law. Stop trying to intimidate and coerce secular into being observant.
And here are some positive “commandments” (with a small ‘c’). Reach out, apologize, and make amends to secular victims of Jewish religious coercion and violence. Invite the secular to join your Shabbat table, AS THEY ARE, NOT AS YOU WANT THEM TO BE. Publicly demonstrate against Jewish religious intimidation and coercion. When you see a secular person being bullied, come to his or her defense, IMMEDIATELY.
I am not surprised at all, what can we expect from self hating jews?
kiruv,
How do I do kiruv to a chilonim who flaunts he is gay and wants to march in the holy city of Jerusalem? You cant!!! Why? Well people who dont want to accept Torah values are not interested in coming over for Shabbos dinner. In fact they go out of there way to drive through charedi neighborhoods honking their horns during Shabbos to desecrate it. I know some who even have Shabbos disco parties. Ultimately Kiruv only works on people who WANT TO LEARN and are interested. But yes I do agree violent acts are not the answer. But putting tefillin on a secular yid who doesnt want to give up his avoda zara isnt going to help either….
To anom 1:51.. Is this same R. Kamenetsky who is a concert ban rabbi? Let him be consistent. Secondly, the ‘ortho’ jews make a nuisance of themselves, steal from others, are involved in many scandals; is it any wonder other jews dislike ’em? They have done it to themselves – it is a case of self inflicted hatred and they deserve it! I say ban them and the rabbis!
Some people here are completely ignorant of Israeli history, as well as lacking much seichal. The chilonim have waged a war against the religous since well before the founding of the state. The official main goal of zionism as deleanated by Herzl, Nordau, Am Echad and others is the uprooting of the Jewish religion. This has nothing to do with anything the charedim do. Learn a little history and try to think a little, rather than spouting senseless cliches and hate-filled rhetoric.
The secular residents were absolutely correct to be concerned – as soon as one cheredi family finds the park is “nice,” soon all of their friends and family will be going there, and then they will start harassing the locals for “lack of clothing modesty” or “secular music being played” or “men and women seated together” or whatever. The secular locals were just protecting their park from encroachment by intolerant thugs. If that means they have to be intolerant to do so, it’s only because the cheredi have made it that way.
Earl – wake up and smell the fresh kichel, vodka & herring – You have been misled for so long by fake rabbis and policies. Think for yourself and see that ‘ortho’ jews make fools of themselves and cuase great harm. Time to ban them!
Same story in ramapo
Ahavah, you make it seem as if all Chareidim are thugs and harass others about modesty, when in reality it’s only a very small percentage, maybe 1%. But of course they make it to the news while the 99% normal ones don’t.
How many Chareidim do you know? How many do you know that harass others about modesty? Probably none.
I guess that when you call for bans on non shomer shabbat businesses, and in general try to enforce your beleifs on an entire country, these kind of incidents are bound to happen. I am not saying its right, just trying to add some perspective.
my heart goes out for this family, and to the non frum when the charedem do it! WE MUST ALL LEARN TO RESPECT EACH OTHER.
The rhetorical question of the Century [or the Millennium] is; Did we pay such a high price [in Blood, Sweat and Tears] to have a Jewish Homeland (to be protected from anti-Semitism, of course!) that there should be permitted in a “Democratic” state such open “Racial” Discrimination! If a similar episode would transpire in any [other] country, the world press would incessantly be reporting about the “Suffering” of the victims, and the indifference of the [“Respective”] Government!!!
p.s.: This is, coming from a “Zionist” [sympathizer] who loves every Jew! [unconditionally!]!!!
Ahava – right on!
It’s funny to have this article juxtaposed on the same page as the one celebrating the release of the Mishmeres Hatznius thugs from jail. If the charedim are going to throw acid and generally harass anyone who doesn’t look identical to them then they should keep to themselves and stay out of secular neighborhoods.
Throwing rocks at cars on shabbas driving near the charedi neighborhoods was practically an institutionalized right when I lived in Israel, and it is understandable in light of those attitudes that the secular Jews should want to the charedim to stay as far away as possible.
earl@6:43 Says: “The chilonim have waged a war against the religous since well before the founding of the state. The official main goal of zionism as deleanated by Herzl, Nordau, Am Echad and others is the uprooting of the Jewish religion.”
Earl, we’re not talking about the “official main goal of Zionism.” We’re talking about individual human beings who were born long after Herzl et al. Most of these secular folks are not interested in uprooting Judaism.
It is mostly the elite academia and elite media folks who strive to uproot Judaism and demonize Torah observant Jews with one broad brush. Through their control of education and media outlets, they are enjoying some success, unfortunately.
Let’s not lump all seculars together. That won’t help the cause of Torah Judaism, not one bit.
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6:02 Says: “yes I do agree violent acts are not the answer.”
Torah is Life
Agreed.
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6:02 Says: “But putting tefillin on a secular yid who doesnt want to give up his avoda zara isnt going to help either….”
Torah is Life
It really does help if — and only if — putting on tefillin is something the secular yid is willing to do without intimidation or coercion. Even the well-intentioned sales person will ultimately lose the final sale if he is too pushy. Sure, the customer may cave in and try on the goods, but he won’t make the final purchase if he feels pushed.
Successful kiruv is a “soft sell.” Always leave the customer wanting more next time. Don’t push. Often, don’t even ask the customer to put on teffilin; it’s enough that he begin to enjoy being in your company. Kiruv is a long-term goal. Be patient. And show the customer that you appreciate it’s a long-term journey, to learn about one’s Jewish heritage and develop close emotional bonds with it.
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6:02 Says: “How do I do kiruv to a chilonim who flaunts he is gay and wants to march in the holy city of Jerusalem?”
Torah is Life
Kiruv doesn’t happen during a political battle to block a gay parade. If you attempt kiruv in the midst of political battle, you will lose, big time. He is battling to win his political goal and you are his “enemy” in that battle. Of course, he won’t listen to you in that time and place.
Kiruv DOES happen when he isn’t battling you. You have to carefully choose the time and place. Just like any good sales person. And kiruv starts with developing an enjoyable relationship.
Remember, don’t measure “success” by whether or not he stops being gay. Success comes in small measures, bit by bit. Every small, tiny change counts as a success.
Kiruv is actually very simple. People over-analyze it and make it way too complicated. Simple is what works.
Torah is life,
“But putting tefillin on a secular yid who doesnt want to give up his avoda zara isnt going to help either….”
So when chazal say mitzvah goreres mitzvah they’re wrong and you know better. Perhaps you should change you name, lest someone confuse you as actually being a genuine religious Jew, with a modicum of emunas chochamim.
mitzvah goreres mitzvah – even a person who does not know that he is Jewish will do mitzvos all the time – does he ever eat kosher, give tzdaka, do kibbud av veim and many other mitzvos. Mitzvah goreres mitzvah is probably related to his or her intentions and beliefs.
To those of you who were at the Kings Hotel in Yerushalayim (Melachim) and had problems with the staff (chiloni or otherwise) on Tisha B’Av and during the nine days, you can always contact Etti Levi, the General Manager of the Prima hotel chain (the Kings hotel is part of the Prima chain) at their coporate offices in Tel Aviv and let them know what Avi (the head manager of the Kings hotel) and Alon (the head of the kitchen and general food services in the Kings hotel) did. Etti is a reasonable person (as opposed to Alon and Avi who are major L’Hachisniks and are quite dificult to deal with) and she will do something about it. I speak from personal experience.
Anon 8:46,
Nice try, no cigar. I’ve seen it all – from the inside. It’s ugly.
I’m not saying that the “secular” acted correctly in bullying the Charedi family however, they are annoyed/upset at the Charedim for how they are trying to “rule” Israel and ban almost everything they do not like or get a heter to either do what they want or get out of doing what they don’t want.
The main issue of debate between them is how the Charedim get out of army duty while secular/and few yeshivish (ex.Nachal Charedi) 18 yr old young men and women risk their lives to protect our homeland. Another important issue is taxes and gov’t benefits that most Charedim take advantage of.
The Chardim have pushed many buttons and people don’t agree.
All yehudim belong in Israel no matter what religious level they keep.
My father in law and his family were one of the first pioneers in Israel. If you think Israel was Charedi then go learn some Israeli history.