Postville, IA - Agriprocessors: NY Times, PETA Claim Of Law Prohibiting Second Cut A Simple Lie |
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Postville, IA - After an article appeared today in the NY Times by Julia Preston, where it accuses Agriprocessors of inhumanly slaughter tactics showing an undercover video released by Peta, we got a Letter that was submitted to the NY Times by Menacham Lubinsky who represents Agriprocessors and was quoted in the article.
See Below
Dear Julia:I was terribly disappointed in your piece this morning that included a quote from me, which makes me wonder whether the sense of fairness you tried to display in your previous piece was somehow missing here.
For starters, there are several inaccuracies: You write: “Under the regulations, a “second cut” in an animal’s throat can be made only in exceptional cases by rabbis or under their supervision. These cuts are sometimes made to speed blood flow from the animals.” There is nothing in the regulations that mentions exceptional cases and in fact if you had read the regulations, you would see a blanket permission for the second cut.
Advertisement:Here are the Direct quotes from the regulations on the subject of a second cut:
Inspection program personnel are to verify that after the ritual slaughter cut and any additional cut to facilitate bleeding, no dressing procedure (e.g., head skinning, leg removal, ear removal, horn removal, opening hide patterns), is performed until the animal is insensible.Inspection program personnel are not to interfere in any manner with the preparation of the animal for ritual slaughter, including the positioning of the animal, or the ritual slaughter cut and any additional cut to facilitate bleeding.
Secondly: Whoever told you that Agriprocessors agreed to suspend the second cut when it was never demanded of them and the procedure continues?
Third: You conveniently omitted my quote that the second cut in fact only hastens the elimination of any pain or suffering, if there is any?
Finally, this story would have been more appropriate to point out that PETA’s activities were illegal and that the USDA used the strong term that Agriprocessors is “in full compliance.” Why not tell the truth?
Menachem Lubinsky
President & CEO, LUBICOM Marketing Consulting, which represents Agriprocessors and
Editor-in-Chief, Kosher Today
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Read Comments (63) — Post Yours »
1
Sep 05, 2008 at 02:28 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
The problem is not with the second cut.
The problem is that Rubashkin SAID there would be no second cut. The problem is that when the 25 visitors came last month, there was no second cut. The problem is that PETA and Temple Grandin were told that there would be no second cut.
As soon as all the visitors left, there was a second cut.
Do not let Lubinsky spin this that it was a Kashrus issue if they were allowed or not.
2
Sep 05, 2008 at 02:38 PM joe Says:Report as Inappropriate
Stop PETA,Union & Eksher Reform Style. They are against any Frum ashgacha, they are now after MealMart!!
They don't care about the hispanic workers or under paid workers, they are only after frum type eksher & rabonim
3
Sep 05, 2008 at 02:47 PM ernie Says:Report as Inappropriate
because they want a public story not the truth
4
Sep 05, 2008 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I am the parent of a special child. I love my child but expect no business to base poliucies on my childs advice
The famed expert, Temple Grandin is a special person. Yes, respect but I bet she did not mean wahat was quoted.
5
Sep 05, 2008 at 03:28 PM Chaim Yankel Says:Report as Inappropriate
Secondly - Does the procedure continue?
Agri had claimed to discontinue the procedure and when the plant was visited just weeks ago by the non-infamous "Three our Tour", their video clearly shows that the second wasn't used.
Do they do it, or not? Is it only when there are no visitors, or only on days when Alternate Side Parking is suspended?
A simple once and for all answer is all we seek. No more smoke and mirrors, lies and half truths.
6
Sep 05, 2008 at 03:29 PM Disguise Says:Report as Inappropriate
Anon 2:28,
Are you Yudel Shain in disguise who some claim is behind this AGRI tragedy? or do you want to bring down our shechita system at any COST?
PETA or any other multi-alphabet organization shall have no tresspass, no input, no opinion, no influence and YES, no existence in the Kosher Jewish law. PERIOD.
We have a Tora which amply provides for the prevention of cruelty to animals. The moment these jewish self haters start influencing our MINHAGIM, even a KITZOI SHEL YID, we're finished.
DO YOU UDNERSTAND?
7
Sep 05, 2008 at 03:37 PM Feivel Says:Report as Inappropriate
Does anyone know the Halacha here?
Does the second cut pose any Halachic Shaalos in Kashrus?
Are there any halachic Opinion which prohibit this second cut which would mean that Agri meat is only Bedieved Kosher and Treif according to some Halachic Opinions?
Anyone sitting Halachic opinions, please indicate precise sources, names of Rabbonim and Sforim and Shaalos and Tshuvos where this is discussed.
8
Sep 05, 2008 at 03:41 PM yankel Says:Report as Inappropriate
PETA are sonei yisroel they are partners with bloomberg and freiden and want to stop bris milah. they tell you it's about a second cut, but they want to stop shechitah altogether. the heck with agriprocessors; they were fools for breaking immigration laws, but we have to protect our religious rights and ensure their is accomodations.
9
Sep 05, 2008 at 03:45 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
If they used a meat hook like they did in 2004, it certainly presents kashrus issues, such as the potential ripping of sirchos. Other than that, I don't believe there are any kashrus issues.
10
Sep 05, 2008 at 03:57 PM Feivel Says:Report as Inappropriate
Whether they are soney yisroel or not is irrelevant.
We are talking HALACHA here.
The halacha is that all Goyim (by any name) are are all Soney Yisroel - So Paskens Torah.
Halacha Sh'Esav Soney L'Yaakov
Af Al Pi Kein, Kabel Es Haemes M'Mey Sheomroy
The real question that no one seems to address is that Weismandel's Supreme wants to give the world the impression that that they are not only kosher bedieved but MEHUDAR and if this second cut poses seriouse Halachic Questions Shaalos, which may needs "heterim", then both Rubashkin and Weismandel should both close shop now.
11
Sep 05, 2008 at 04:12 PM mark Says:Report as Inappropriate
WITH ALL RESPECT TO LUBINSKY AND NAT LEWIN THEY ARE PAID TO DEFEND AGRI LETS HEAR FROM A EXPERT ROV
12
Sep 05, 2008 at 04:58 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
feivel ones the kuna and veshet is cut completely its a lkatchula to make a second cut this is a process used by EVERY schita in the world look in smeach simon beis.
13
Sep 05, 2008 at 05:09 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
in yore diha simon 22 is mentioned
that it is a MUST the second cut so I gave you some homework for shabbos. also why does it make more sense for you that the third cut on your table is mutur and the second cut in kill floor is a question if the cow is dead its dead! dead by a jew is called as soon as the kuna and veshed is cut through.
14
Sep 05, 2008 at 05:13 PM wow Says:Report as Inappropriate
mark there is a post above from a whole list of rabbonim that there is no question about the second cut I thing you should shmuz it over with feivel he also wants to see only what he wants.
15
Sep 05, 2008 at 05:30 PM bigwheeel Says:Report as Inappropriate
berish 4:58PM. Pronouncing LEKATCHULA is like saying "BERUSH"! "Kune" is also the "Chasidish" way of pronunciation! Anyway, we still have to work on our "Litvish" accent!!!
p.s.: Which sefer is the "smeach" that you quote from Simon Beis?
16
Sep 05, 2008 at 05:38 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
to all say Peta is Soney Yisroel I have some info for you.
The original people who broke and reported about abuse of animals in rubashkins plants WHERE FRUM JEWS.
In addition, Peta goes after many goyim like famous movie stars, fashion models, and fashion house that are not owned by Jews.
You can argue that they are wrong, not level headed. But they are not Soney Yisroel. The evidence simply proves that are a fanatical animal rights group and will go after whoever they can like Micheal Vick and the NFL, is he Jewish and is the NFL a frum organization.
Also for those who say the "Torath says" whether about schita and or when an animal is dead etc. Show me and the rest of us the posek (sentence) in the Torah that describes schita and tzar baal chaim and or when an animal is dead, so we can end this?
However, as hard as one looks I am sure you will not find it, prove me wrong?
17
Sep 05, 2008 at 06:11 PM Yasher Koach Says:Report as Inappropriate
For reporting at least both sides of the story.
18
Sep 05, 2008 at 06:20 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I really don't care about the second cut. I care that Rubashin promised and then he lied.
Then he got caught.
Again.
What did we not catch him on? Because of him, Peta will might shechita in jeopardy. And there are still people that will defend the shtus that he does.
19
Sep 05, 2008 at 06:39 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
big wheel semach is simlah chadusha from the tvuas shour he is matir even if you did not cut both simnoim if the second cut is done by a non jew however in simon 23 he says its not lkatcula but that is only the simnoim. goos shabbos I hope you understand my english... its now semilitvish...
20
Sep 05, 2008 at 06:49 PM Disguise Says:Report as Inappropriate
Annon, 6:20.
Yidele, Why don't you put that Video on u'r website?
You've carried on a JIHAD against Rubashkin the moment your mother weaned you off the bottle. Now you have them where you want.
BTW, what kind of talk is "I really don't care about the second cut" ?
I've got gr8 news for you; McDonalds serves meat WITHOUT a second NOR first cut. If you're into high end eateries how about "Unclejacks" Steak Houses. They too serve UNCUT, no first and no second and you'd be in peace with yourself not having to worry PETA's worries.
P.S. The halachas are as mentioned in other post's. It's a NON ISSUE al pi halocha.
21
Sep 06, 2008 at 09:18 PM Meatloaf Says:Report as Inappropriate
The majority or people involved in the leadership of PETA do not believe in shechita of any kind - kosher, non-kosher -- it soesn't matter. They don't believe in killing animals for food.
That said, the video shot by PETA is quite disturbing. I agree with those who say it doesn't matter whether there is one cut, or two. We can argue halacha on this point until the sun comes up.
No, what is disturbing is the lie told to the Rabbonim and kosher consumer, that shechita done at Agri is done with a single cut.
The second cut issue, "cuts" to the heart of the problem at Agri. It is a question of trust.
And now the 20 Rabbis who took part in the 3 hour Gilligan's Island tour must live with the shame of having participated in a sham. The shmutz at Agri now covers them as well - not to mention the OU and Wiesmandl who are already covered head-to-toe.
22
Sep 06, 2008 at 09:41 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Disguise Says:
Anon 2:28,
Are you Yudel Shain in disguise who some claim is behind this AGRI tragedy?
-----------------------------------
No, I am not Rabbi Shain
or do you want to bring down our shechita system at any COST?
***************************************
We are not bringing down shechita, Rubashkin is doing it without anyone's help. If he promised not to do a second cut, and he paid for the videos for the 24 Rabbi Three Hour Tour that shows no second cut, then why did he do it when no one was around? Why did he promise the OU that he would stop? Why did he promise USDA that he would not do it unless he informs them first (see FM for copies of the USDA papers that shows that he promised them)
PETA or any other multi-alphabet organization shall have no tresspass, no input, no opinion, no influence and YES, no existence in the Kosher Jewish law. PERIOD.
*************************************
You are right. They should have no input in Kosher halachot.
But they will open their mouths when they see animals that are shechted that are not allowed to bleed out before some worker takes a hook to their throats and rips out the trachea - not because they want the behaima to bleed out, but to yank on the lungs so that you 'improve' the glatt rate by 1-2%. Had you waited for the animal to stop moving then there would be no problem.
We have a Tora which amply provides for the prevention of cruelty to animals. The moment these jewish self haters start influencing our MINHAGIM, even a KITZOI SHEL YID, we're finished.
***********************************
Obviously, Rubashkin was not machmir and DID cruelty to animals after shechita. Your argument is with him, not the rest of us.
DO YOU UDNERSTAND?
****************************
I understand. Do you? Have YOU complained to Rubashkin that HIS actions risk it for us all???
23
Sep 06, 2008 at 09:45 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I don,t know what the New York Times agenda is. I have worked in numerous non kosher packing houses, and let me tell you how things work. We process 15 to 1800 animals a day, each animal passes by on a conveyor belt suspended on its belly feet of thw ground. It is shot in the head by a bolt gun, some animals die, some are stunned, and some remain concious. Immediately someone else slits their throat to bleed the animal. Not a shochet not anyone with any skills just factory labour, why is no one complaining??
24
Sep 06, 2008 at 10:05 PM Who is Yudel Shain? Says:Report as Inappropriate
Who is this Yudel Shain?
I had a feeling that the whole Rubashkin thing was orchestrated against them by someone with a vendetta.
Can we find out about this man, Shain,and if need be, and bring him to justice for the terrible pain he has inflicted on innocent people?
25
Sep 06, 2008 at 10:19 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
In the great need to find out who is to blame for the Rubashkin debacle, we have seen that
1) PETA
2) The Unions
3) The competitors
4) Hechsher Tzedek
5) The NY TIMES
AND NOW
6) Rabbi Shain
are all mentioned.
I have the following questions:
Who owns the plant?
Who signed the USDA grant of inspection (Who is ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING that happens in the plant)?
What education do they have to run a multi-million dollar plant (what college, school of business, training in finance, management, HACCP concepts, foos safety, etc)
If they have no training except for a yeshiva education, why would the be enough? If you were in the Yeshiva world, then I would agree, but you are now in the BUSINESS world.
26
Sep 06, 2008 at 10:30 PM Disguise Says:Report as Inappropriate
Annon 9:41
"Obviously, Rubashkin was not machmir and DID cruelty to animals after shechita. Your argument is with him, not the rest of us. "
Did I see this right?
Are you a JEW WHO BELIEVES IN THE TORA?
LEACHER SCHITA THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS TZAAR BAALEI CHAIM or in PETA'S terminology (which you adhore) 'CRUELTY TO ANIMALS', KAPICH? or you dispute this part of the Tora?
UNBELIEVABLE!
27
Sep 06, 2008 at 10:34 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Can we find out about this man, Shain,and if need be, and bring him to justice for the terrible pain he has inflicted on innocent people?
What happens if you take out the word SHAIN and replace it with THE RUBASHKINS?
28
Sep 06, 2008 at 10:48 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
LEACHER SCHITA THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS TZAAR BAALEI CHAIM or in PETA'S terminology (which you adhore) 'CRUELTY TO ANIMALS', KAPICH? or you dispute this part of the Tora?
*****************************
UNfortunately, this is where DINA D'MALCHUSA reigns. When you see the animal WALKING AROUNG for 3 minutes after shechita, according to the USDA, the animal is not dead. Rubashkin promised to put a bullet in the brain if this happens again. Why? The animal is already dead al pi halacha?
Because the US govt does not want the appearance of the animal being alive. And Rubashkin agreed. And Rubashkin lied. Again.
If Rubashkin was not so greedy, the animal would be in the holding pen until it stops moving. Then you can make your second cut. PS, Al Pi Halacha, in the position that the animal is in (in the weinberg pen) if the shochet makes the cut more horizontal, they would alleviate this problem. But the shoichet is NOT EXPERIENCED enough and is afraid that the restraining arm will nick his knife so me makes more cuts than necessary and now he is in the mess that he is in?
Don't quote 'halacha' if you do not know the source and do not know relevant USDA laws that MUST be abided at the same time. We are still in America, and Kosher is an NOT exemption to the Humane Slaughter Act. It IS humane slaughter, when done PROPERLY.
Are you A Jew that believed in Torah? Then act it.
UNBELIEVABLE.
29
Sep 06, 2008 at 11:04 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
can I know WHEN did rubashkin give a statement saying they do not do a second cut? a second cut depends on the shochet if he did a good job during schita by cutting through ALL blood vessels if he failed to do so then a second cut to cut the blood vessels is necessary.
30
Sep 06, 2008 at 11:28 PM hello? Says:Report as Inappropriate
Judging by the comments above, it seems that many of you did not read the article on the top of this page. It qoutes the USDA guidlines that there are no limitations on a second cut for bleeding and that the cut the rubashkin agreed to discotinue was one where they removed the trachea and as you can plainly see in the video they don't remove the trachea.
31
Sep 06, 2008 at 11:39 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
1048 AFRA LPUMA how can you give in do the usda if according to the tora to shoot a behima after schita is forbidden as mentioned in yora diya simon 67 rubashkin would and will never give in. dina dmalcusa is only in some cases by choshen misphat not by yora diya.
32
Sep 07, 2008 at 12:49 AM abi gezunt Says:Report as Inappropriate
to anoy 2:28 and meatloaf . u r probally the same person shame on u for aligning yourself with the biggest reshoim! and dont anser me that u care for chilul hashem we know what u really want
33
Sep 07, 2008 at 02:15 AM Vote McCain - Palin In 08! Says:Report as Inappropriate
Peta yemach shmom v'zichrom are a bunch of left wing radical wakkos that need to be stopped somehow. They are out to destroy people's lives for the sake of some stupid animal. FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE!!
34
Sep 07, 2008 at 02:52 AM yoli Says:Report as Inappropriate
berish Says:
can I know WHEN did rubashkin give a statement saying they do not do a second cut? a second cut depends on the shochet if he did a good job during schita by cutting through ALL blood vessels if he failed to do so then a second cut to cut the blood vessels is necessary.
09-06-2008 - 11:04 PM
===========================================
Your a tptal innoramous.
If the shochet didnt do the cut right as you put it then its not a kosher slaughter. Making a second cut is OSSUR
35
Sep 07, 2008 at 07:22 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
berish Says:
can I know WHEN did rubashkin give a statement saying they do not do a second cut?
*************************************
They promised PETA (YM) and they promised USDA (see FM for copy of USDA papers)
a second cut depends on the shochet if he did a good job during schita by cutting through ALL blood vessels if he failed to do so then a second cut to cut the blood vessels is necessary.
09-06-2008 - 11:04 PM
******************************************
Too bad you did not see the video. It clearly shows that the shoichet walks away while someone else slashes at the animal's chest. YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE ANIMAL TO STOP MOVING. The last set of pictures that we saw had the animal moving for 3 minutes AFTER shechita. USDA does not want the appearance that the animal is still alive when you slash at the chest.
THis is true chullul Hashem. Rubashkin knows what to do. He lied to USDA, Grandin, the Rabbonim, PETA, everyone when he said that he would stop the second cut. If he lets the animal bleed out in the Weinberg pen (which there are plenty of shaylos to begin with) then he would not have a lot of the shechita problems that he has.
His shechita numbers are down by 50%, he has all the time in the world to let the animal bleed, but he still wants to do it in a way that NO OTHER SHLOCHT-HOUSE IN AMERICA WANTS TO DO IT.
berish Says:
*****************************
Oh, it's you, again
1048 AFRA LPUMA how can you give in do the usda if according to the tora to shoot a behima after schita is forbidden as mentioned in yora diya simon 67
*********************************
What s'eef? Did they have guns then?
rubashkin would and will never give in. dina dmalcusa is only in some cases by choshen misphat not by yora diya.
*****************************************
Rubashkin already agreed to do it. Check with MMW, USDA, Grandin, etc.
It is possible to satisfy BOTH USDA AND HALACHA. Everyone else does it. Why not Rubashkin?
09-06-2008 - 11:39 PM
36
Sep 07, 2008 at 07:26 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Vote McCain - Palin In 08! Says:
Peta yemach shmom v'zichrom are a bunch of left wing radical wakkos that need to be stopped somehow. They are out to destroy people's lives for the sake of some stupid animal. FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE!!
*********************************
Alle shechts at Aurora and at Treuth. At other times, there are other shechitas that shecht there, like the Star-k, CRC, etc
Why are there no problems in the shechita there? What is different there that Rubashkin does not do? What are they picking ONLY on Rubashkin and no one else?
It would seem to me that the problem lies with Rubashkin, not with the rest of the world.
37
Sep 07, 2008 at 08:26 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
abi gezunt Says:
to anoy 2:28 and meatloaf . u r probally the same person shame on u for aligning yourself with the biggest reshoim! and dont anser me that u care for chilul hashem we know what u really want
09-07-2008 - 12:49 AM
What do they really want? judging by their responses, they want Rubashkin to behave like everyone else and give a proper ehlich shechita.
Reshoim? Meatloaf and 2:28 are wicked and cruel? What is your criteria for wicked and crule? Wanting a better standard for Yiddishkeit?
What is your position on shluging kaparos with chickens? Should we shecht them and leave the carcasses in black plastic bags to rot? Should we put on a spectacle for PETA to photograph , then wal away from the mess we made, so that someone else can clean up the guts and blood and feathers from the street. Who is the Rasha in that case???
38
Sep 07, 2008 at 09:32 AM to anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
it seems to me you don't want to be bothered with facts.
1 The cut rubashkin agreed to stop was the one removing the trachea, at no time did they tell anyone that they will stop a simple second cut which is approved by the usda and there is no problem whatsoever al pi halacha (and there is no need to wait until the animal stops moving, i don't know where you got that idea from?)
2 the reason they are after rubashkin is because they arent unionized (as opposed to aurora and treuth) and as we can see with the recent attack on meal mart, they will eventually go after anyone that they are trying to unionize.
3 the weinberg pen happens to be a hiddur as evidenced by the fact that it is only shechita that the rabanut in israel accepts.
39
Sep 07, 2008 at 11:19 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
to anonymous Says:
it seems to me you don't want to be bothered with facts.
neither do you. Your 'facts' are not backed up with truth or reality.
All problems will go away when Rubashkin conforms to what everyone else is doing.
1 The cut rubashkin agreed to stop was the one removing the trachea, at no time did they tell anyone that they will stop a simple second cut
READ THE USDA REPORTS ON FM AND SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO
2 the reason they are after rubashkin is because they arent unionized (as opposed to aurora and treuth) and as we can see with the recent attack on meal mart, they will eventually go after anyone that they are trying to unionize.
TELL HIM TO TREAT HIS EMPLOYEES BETTER AND TO PAY THEM BETTER. THEN THE PROBLEMS WILL STOP.
3 the weinberg pen happens to be a hiddur as evidenced by the fact that it is only shechita that the rabanut in israel accepts.
THIS IS A 'HIDDUR' THAT WAS INVENTED ONLY FOR SHECHITA OUTSIDE OF ERETZ YISROEL IN THE LAST FEW YEARS. THERE IS MORE POLITICS IN IT THAT HIDDUR
40
Sep 07, 2008 at 11:31 AM McCain - Palin In 08! Says:Report as Inappropriate
anon 726 & 1119 or should I say YS from Lakewood?????
Is the trampoline in front of your house there so you are able to jump HIGHER in case no one pays any attention to you?
41
Sep 07, 2008 at 12:12 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
yolei the shochet has to cut the kuna and veshet by then its dead he also has to try to cut the blood vessel if not you are aloud to make a second cut look at my post above I mentioned where it say so i don't know be a big baby I don't know your agenda but I can promise you that you NEVER opened a shulcan urich in your live well its not to late you can start today.
42
Sep 07, 2008 at 12:33 PM agri insider Says:Report as Inappropriate
The usda should demand agri to have videos on the kill floor and other areas (HAMAVIN YOVIN) with the ultamatum that if they refuse , then thier plant is seized by the federal government. This way everyone should be happy. NOTHING MORE TO HIDE!
43
Sep 07, 2008 at 01:51 PM to anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
1 i read the report, there is no reason (halacha or USDA - as qouted above from the USDA) to discontinue the simple second cut.
2 Agri now pays $10 and above to all of their employess, have any of the attacks stopped? all of the stories of mistreatment are from disgruntled workers or people looking for a u visa (which is issued to people who claim to have been abused) and agri hasn't been found guilty of any of these allegations of mistreatment.
3 shechita munachas is not new, it is the way shechita was done throughout history.
44
Sep 07, 2008 at 02:23 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
berish Says:
yolei the shochet has to cut the kuna and veshet by then its dead he also has to try to cut the blood vessel if not you are aloud to make a second cut look at my post above I mentioned where it say so i don't know be a big baby I don't know your agenda but I can promise you that you NEVER opened a shulcan urich in your live well its not to late you can start today.
09-07-2008 - 12:12 PM
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I have no idea what you are trying to say. Can someone please edit his remarks.
Personal attacks should not be allowed. We are all aware that this is Chodesh Elul, and both sides want Rubashkin to exist. The difference between both sides is that Berish and McCain seem to think that Rubashkin did nothing wrong. His hiring practices, his honesty, his care for his employees are as good as it gets. The rest of the Frum community sees something lacking, and unless this suicide spiral stops, there will be no Rubashkin soon. That, I repeat, is something we do not want. But Berish has to wake up and see what is happening before it is too late.
I am reminded of the guy that jumped off the Empire State Building. As he passed the 70th floor, he was heard saying "So far, so good".
As he passed the 50th floor, he was heard saying "So far, so good". Well, I hear Rubashkin and their supporters saying "So far, so good".
45
Sep 07, 2008 at 02:25 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
McCain - Palin In 08! Says:
anon 726 & 1119 or should I say YS from Lakewood?????
Is the trampoline in front of your house there so you are able to jump HIGHER in case no one pays any attention to you?
*****************************************
Were you around when Moshe Finkel was the darling of Monsey and everyone held by him?
So far, so good.
46
Sep 07, 2008 at 03:05 PM Meatloaf Says:Report as Inappropriate
"His shechita numbers are down by 50%, he has all the time in the world to let the animal bleed, but he still wants to do it in a way that NO OTHER SHLOCHT-HOUSE IN AMERICA WANTS TO DO IT."
Agri claimed that pre-raid, they shechted 50 head of cattle a day/6 days a week, and 60,000 birds a pay/ 6 days a week.
Cattle shechita has not gone above 200 head a day, and birds remain between 30,000 and 38,000 per day.
"all of the stories of mistreatment are from disgruntled workers or people looking for a u visa (which is issued to people who claim to have been abused) and agri hasn't been found guilty of any of these allegations of mistreatment."
A U-visa is not issued to abused people. It can only be issued to people who are witnesses to a crime that the US Government want to remain in this country until the criminals are prosecuted.
As for guilt, two agri supervisors (in most business models supervisors are considered part of managment) have pleaded guilty to criminal charges and are awaiting sentencing.
47
Sep 07, 2008 at 04:11 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
post 35 did you see in shilchon urich about knocking the head of the cow after schita or cutting the heart its the same thing thing like a bullet.
slashes in the chest? oh I ich hub gemined we talking about a second cut?
weinberg pen? who else knows about the word of weinberg pen other than yudel shein I think you just discovered your identity.
to bleed out why does he have to wait more then any other slaughter house? can you explain me how alle does in his places like harora chicago ? truth baltimore ? texas? minneapolis? montreal veal? tronto? la? costorico? pennsylvania by veal? denver by lamb? peterson nj by lamnb? las pedras? colonones uruguay?
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Sep 07, 2008 at 05:48 PM Avrohom Abba Says:Report as Inappropriate
Is it not interesting that PETA never is interested in finding Mosl;ems guilty of selling unrefrigerated meat? No, PETA would never take that on because it only endangers humans.
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Sep 07, 2008 at 06:33 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
To Berish:
All your questions were already answered. I have a few questions that need answering, also.
Why did he not have a second cut when everyone was around and did it when no one was looking.
Why did he use e-verify in Brooklyn years ago and not in Iowa.
Why were there stacks of blank ID cards in the office at the time of the raid?
Why do the goyish drivers have simonei kashrus on the trucks with them?
What are the procedures for separating Glatt frankfurters from non-glatt frankfurters?
What heters are used for driving on Shabbat, and for plant operations on Shabbat and Yom Tov?
When you answer these, we can start having an intelligent conversation.
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Sep 07, 2008 at 06:51 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Meatloaf - was the pre-raid 50 or 500 per day?
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Sep 07, 2008 at 06:54 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Avrohom Abba Says:
Is it not interesting that PETA never is interested in finding Mosl;ems guilty of selling unrefrigerated meat? No, PETA would never take that on because it only endangers humans.
**********************************
PETA will never take on the Muslems. They fight back and "taking on the religion is an affront to all Muslems".
Too bad that they urinated in M'oras Hamachpela. The only ine that said anything was Young Israel in Israel. Where is anybody else?
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Sep 07, 2008 at 07:43 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
post 49
as explained a second cut is only if the shochet misses the blood vessles during schita most of times he does not miss therefore when you are talking why when anybody was around? because then it was shcita as usual the time when he hits the blood vessel during shcita.
everify? I don't know what you mean?
blank id? off all accusation I did not here off that one can you post a link for that? (and I am still waiting for the copy of the contract you can also email it to bataz1@aol.com).
simone kasrahs? how is it possible to carry simone kasrhas when it not a sticker it is a insert and you would need to remove the seal in order to place the insert and wrap it again just go in westgate and see for your self. does the truck driver carry the vacuum pack machine to seal the plastic afterwards again?
glat franks of not glat? how does alle separate the non kosher cows from kosher cows on the kill floor ? are you aware that not all cows are kosher even by alle 40% is treif.
shabbos? rubashkin is closed completely on shabbos period. closed.
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Sep 07, 2008 at 08:24 PM to meatloaf Says:Report as Inappropriate
the supervisers did not plead guilty to mistreatment of workers. besides these were floor supervisers who had people above them who were in managment.
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Sep 08, 2008 at 12:17 AM checkyerfacts Says:Report as Inappropriate
to anonymous
THERE IS NO UNION at TREuth, How do I know? I worked there. Starting wage? 8.75 an hour, all employees have their documents checked and paid 1/2 for time off for JEWISH HOLIDAYS.
Drive down for yourself and check it out! Call if you want, they have nothing to hide ((410) 465-4650)
A company run by mentcshes.
A kiddush Hashem for once - oh wait the owners are Xtians.
PETA is a huge distraction, they oppose all slaughter and they know if they go after kosher slaughter it will only generate more media hype because "it's different" They know it would be pointless to challenge Big TRAIF industries like ConAgra or BeefNational.
Fellow yidden, stop waisting time and mental energy on organization that had the audacity to write a letter to Arafat (yimach shemo) to refrain from using donkeys for vehicles of bombing. Read it your self (http://www.peta.org/feat/arafat/)
I request that everyone look at the facts of the case - from goverment and criminal reports.
They (owners and management) LIED
They (owners and management)continue to refuse to take resposibility for violations committed by their company that they PROFITed from.
They exploited human beings (illegal or not)
These are not stock brockers or shoes salesmen they run a for profit business selling essential products that greatly impact our spiritual lives!!
SO YES let's demand that rubashkin follow the Dina D'Malchusa - to avoid chillul hashem and more Jewish persecution
Gezalah does not apply just to Yidden!! You cannot steal money or wages from a goy!
Asking my Jewish Brother who supplies my kosher meat for my shabbos tish to behave in a torahdic fashion is NOT a "vendhetta" or a "jihad"
I insist that I not be involved mitzvah haba’ah b’aveirah (by comsuming the fleish and bentsching)
Could this BIG BOOSHA be cosidered a result of 'Sechar Aveirah Aveirah' - the pleasure and side benefits that one derives from performing an Aveirah is in itself, an Aveirah.
I would love to hear other opinions. I am only a ger, so my learning has been limited.
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Sep 08, 2008 at 12:57 AM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
well can you ask old tall man mr. truth if I can take a video off his plant. just want to show for there entire world the most cruelty of his slaughter house right after shcita when they open that old door on the right side the head of the behima gets stuck in the head of the restrainer might be fine for rabbi f. but not for peta... so a little more to learn mr. ger.
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Sep 08, 2008 at 02:31 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
PETA is the same nefarious organization that sent ARAFAT y"msh a letter asking him not to use animals in suicide bombings after a donkey laden with explosives was detonated in a deadly suicide mission. All they care about is the Donkey but they don't give a damn about the blood of innocent men women and children.. This is their true color.
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Sep 08, 2008 at 08:11 AM Matzahlocal101 Says:Report as Inappropriate
Anon 6:33,
First allow me to call you a liar. The plant is not and never was open and running on shabbos. A borderline problem of ownership of the cattle, that were going to be schechted on Sunday was one of the hidurim insisted on by Rav Weissmandel shlita. As a result Rubashkin has no connection to animals on shabbos. But of course you wouldn't know that because you're not interested in the facts, your interested in bad mouthing Rubashkin. On another note, every corporate office has stacks of blank ID cards in the office and they're routinely issued to visitors, inspectors, and temporary help. Feel free to continue to demonstrate your brilliance.
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Sep 08, 2008 at 09:37 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Matzahlocal101 Says:
Anon 6:33,
First allow me to call you a liar
There is no 6:33. What are you talking about? Who are you calling a liar?
On one hand you say that the plant is closed on Shabbat. On the other hand, you say that he has no connection to the animals. THen who has a conection to the animals?
Do you work there? How do you get your information? What heppened to berish?
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Sep 08, 2008 at 11:09 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Matzahlocal101 Says:
Anon 6:33,
First allow me to call you a liar.
.....................
On another note, every corporate office has stacks of blank ID cards in the office and they're routinely issued to visitors, inspectors, and temporary help.
************************************
There is no 6.33. What did he say that you have to call him a liar during Elul??
Blank ID cards? used to create an identity to show citizenship? No office has them. They are illegal. Why would Agri have them? Why would ICE confiscate them if they are legal? ID tags that you pin on your shirt are not ID cards.
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Sep 08, 2008 at 05:44 PM berish Says:Report as Inappropriate
to post 58 post 57 is right agri buy the cattle on oction a few before shcita this cattle gets unloaded a couple of miles before postville on the owner responsibility till it gets picked up by sgri after shabbos and the plant is total shut down and shabbos. I am still here I wounder if the ger is some where around did he speek to mr. truth.
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Sep 08, 2008 at 07:52 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
berish Says:
to post 58 post 57 is right agri buy the cattle on oction a few before shcita this cattle gets unloaded a couple of miles before postville on the owner responsibility till it gets picked up by sgri after shabbos and the plant is total shut down and shabbos. I am still here I wounder if the ger is some where around did he speek to mr. truth.
09-08-2008 - 5:44 PM
Still cannot figure out what you want to say. 'oction' is yiddish for stubborn. 'I wounder' seems to me that he was wounded.
PLease - what are you talking about?
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Sep 09, 2008 at 06:20 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Treuth is a goy. He owns the slaughterhouse. What restrictions are there on a goy that owns the slaughterhouse??
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Sep 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM Reb Yid Says:Report as Inappropriate
It's interesting that if you go to the PETA website, you find videos from treif shlachthoizes where much worse things are going on. But for some reason the "less bad" things at Rubashkin incur most of PETA's ire and make the most headlines.
I'm not sure what conclusion one can draw from this other than that it's an anti-shechita crusade.