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Israel - Rabbi Aviner: Going To Uman For Rosh Hashana Not Part Of 613 Mitzvot |
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Pepole dance outside the tombstone of Reb Nachman of uman
Rabbi Shlomo Aviner has attacked the Jewish New Year's Eve trend of massive prostration on the grave of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov in the Ukrainian town.
He also said surprisingly that “it is completely uncertain that there is a mitzvah of prostrating on the tombs of the just.
“There are 613 mitzvot from the Torah and many mitzvahs prescribed by the rabbis, but there is no such mitzvah.”
Regarding the righteous man buried at the site, Rabbi Aviner said, “With all his greatness and holiness, his opinion has been considered individual until this very day, not only amongst Israel’s great and grand but also within Hasidism itself.”
The rabbi published his opinion in his weekly article in the "B'Ahava Ub'Emuna" synagogue bulletin.
Under the title “The Land of Israel and not Uman,” Rabbi Aviner claimed that “leaving a family, a wife and children during Rosh Hashana is a moral problem and even a halachic one.”
What about Rabbi Nachman’s promise to exclude from hell all those who visit in Uman?
Rabbi Aviner
“We were already acquitted from hell by Abraham… and Isaac our forefather…and moreover, our forefather Abraham sits at the entrance of hell and does not allow a circumcised person to enter…we don’t need to look for new schemes in order to be saved from hell. Are our righteous ones’ words not enough?”
Later, the rabbi quoted from Breslov Hassidism’s books which prove that one must stay in Israel during Rosh Hashana and speak of Rabbi Nachman’s students who did just that.
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Read Comments (63) — Post Yours »
1
Sep 08, 2008 at 09:14 AM Anonymous Says:
You have to see it for what it is,a BIG squander
of precious momon yisroel.
Based on a legend,and fable,it is a shame that yiddish funds,are wasted on such banalities,
Hashem Yair Eineinu.
2
Sep 08, 2008 at 09:18 AM Anonymous Says:
Interstengly that he's the only one who comes out saying it publicly where many Rebbe's and Roshe Yeshivos have been saying so privately.
3
Sep 08, 2008 at 09:36 AM ploni Says:
im with rabbi shlomo...thanx
you can have great kavana in your local year round shul.
4
Sep 08, 2008 at 09:44 AM r u serious Says:
Thank goodness someone has said this !
The more we are silent about this pseudo form of judaism more strenghth we give it.
Going to Uman is just one of the many new mitzvohs this cult has made up. The tzaddikim over 150 years ago saw the danger of this movement and tried to stop it. Its not too late.
Just say No to Na !
5
Sep 08, 2008 at 09:47 AM Must Be In Uman for RH Says:
Someone who needs some fame, I'll tell you an easy way to get,take the biggest and hottest thing that everyone is doing and tell people not to go.
Why dont you tell people not to go to Rabbi Shimon on Lag Bomer.
6
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:08 AM Anonymous Says:
To Must be in Uman
Look in Teshuvas Chasam Sofer in Yoreh Deah about going to R Shimon on Lag Baomer, and no he was not looking for fame
7
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:19 AM Yossel Says:
Anon 10:08
which tshuva? siman?
Thanks
8
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:37 AM anonymous Says:
Enough of the Breslav / Uman nonsense already.
Yasher koach Rabbi !
Last year Chacham Ovadia spoke out against it also.
Those two speak for many others.
I saw a movie by Paul Mazursky about this Uman privilege as well as some other video footage related to it online.
Pathetic.
I think alot of the people who are into Breslav and Uman are seriously depressed, that's why they are so obsessed with simcha and trying to find it through Breslav. May they have a refuah shleimah bikarov, with other cholei Yisrael.
9
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:
Actually its a Toras Moshe in Parshas Emor.
10
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:
Yosel,
I dont have it open in front of me now so I dont recall which Siman off hand -
11
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:39 AM anonymous Says:
Oops - I meant "Uman pilgrimage".
(I saw a movie by Paul Mazursky about this Uman pilgrimage as well as some other video footage related to it online.)
12
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:42 AM someone Says:
well the people that have a mesora to go to uman should go and for the people that do not have a mesora to go should decide if it will do good for them they should go and if not they should not go
by the way in todays genaration if someone wants to go to a tzaddik for rosh hashana why should there be anyone against it instead of waisting his money and going to hershy park on chol hamoed
AND NO IM NOT A BRESLVE
13
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:44 AM Choizik Says:
Rabbi Aviner is %100 correct! One must be "Oleh Regel" to Yerushalayim, NOT to Uman!
14
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:48 AM jj Says:
%oing kapporas on erev yom kippur is also not one ofthe 613. maybe we should stop that too
15
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:51 AM Ken Taylor Says:
They go to Uman, spending thousands of dollars that go to the Ukrainians YM"S who murdered my Grandfather and his whole entire family
16
Sep 08, 2008 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:
There is a whole teshuva in Yorah deah too
17
Sep 08, 2008 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:
RABBI AVINER HAS THE COURAGE TO SAY WHAT MAY NOT SOUND POPULAR,BUT MOST RABBONIM,ARE IN THE SAME SHITA.
This has to be extended,to all trips to Kevarim,which are being propgandized,as a Graet Mitzvah,Kever rebbe shimon,Lizensk,Potozki,and others.
18
Sep 08, 2008 at 11:43 AM anonymous Says:
10:44 Isn't it the same as going to the kever of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai in Meron on Lag Ba'omer?
19
Sep 08, 2008 at 11:45 AM Bernard Says:
One has to go Uman to understand how profoundly spiritual being there for R'H is. Thousand of Jews of every type coming together is beyond inspiring. Similarly davening with some 5,000 folks is special- Yehei Shay Rabah and Shema Yisrael sound like thunder. The power of the communal Tikun Haklali is tangible. Please remeber that in Ger in the 1930's there were some 10,000 chassidim who ate on Yom Kippur! Imagine how many folks above bar Mitzvah were there. As to the money going to the Ukrainians- understand their love of money exceeds their antisemitism so our tourism shekels and Dollars help preserves/protect from violence Kivrei Zaddikim and communities in Ukraine.
With all due respect to the good Rabbi but it is a tradditional black hat litvish/mitnagaid point of view.
20
Sep 08, 2008 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:
Bernard, please clarify your comments re. ger in the 1930's - i am intrigued - what are you referring to??
21
Sep 08, 2008 at 12:49 PM Zach Kessin Says:
'One has to go Uman to understand how profoundly spiritual being there for R'H is. Thousand of Jews of every type coming together is beyond inspiring.
'
I'm sure it is, but if money is tight I would think it would make more sense to stay at home with your family and spend the money on say household expenses (Food, rent etc). It seems a large expense for a community where so many are quite poor.
22
Sep 08, 2008 at 12:50 PM Rosh HaShanah Says:
First of all about the Mitzvah itself:
Mitzvah Lishmoa Divrei Chachamim. If Rabbi Nachman did say to go to his tomb, then a person who goes there is fulfilling the mitzvah of Lishmoa Divrei Chachamim.
Rabbi Nachman was neither an isolated opinion nor has he been considered an individual.
Breslov is one of the most growing Chasidus in these days.
The Deevrei Chaim Z"L from Tzanz always kept the Likietei Moharan on his table. Rabbi Nuchem MiTsernoabel used to say that it's a Segulah to learn it before bed time. The Chozah,the Koznitzer Magid, and others gave an Haskamah on his sefer (worthed to read: The Chozah writes: Henah Yad Kesivah Alei Beetzbah Aloakim). The Kedishas Levi Z"L, and the Tanyah Z"L, and many others were talking very highly about him. Up to this date, The Klausenburger Rabbi Z"L, Shotzar Rabbi Z"L from London (he wrote a comentary on Lekituh Maharan)and many others were among the ones who spoke highly about learning the Seforim of Rabbi Nachman Z''L.
Rabbi Joel Teitelbuam Z"L, Satmar Rabbi Z"L, author of V'Yoel Moshe, writes that Rabbi Nachman Z"L was the only one who has foreseen the challenges of today’s generation.
No wonder why: As we are fighting so much Nisyonos, Rabbi Nachman Z"L is considered to be backbone for surviving the Chavali Moshiach.
With all due respect, I'm responding to Rabbi Aviner's quote: "we were already acquitted from hell by Abraham… and Isaac our forefather…and moreover, our forefather Abraham sits at the entrance of hell and does not allow a circumcised person to enter…we don’t need to look for new schemes in order to be saved from hell" :
It's written in Talmud, and in Rashis Chochmah that hell is one of the last punishments which is intended to cleanse the person. Not every one is even Zoacha to reach the gates of hell where he could ultimately be saved by our forefather's.
Rabbi Nachman Z''L is referring to the word "Sheul Tachtiyus" which is the Rachmunah Litzloan, the lowest place where a Jew could have possibly been fallen, and at that remote given position we have no one who has promised to save a person except for Rabbi Nachman Z''L.
Rabbi Nachman Z''L promised that at any given spiritual fallen level he would take upon him self to redeem the person from his evilness. The only tiny thing he was asking is simply come to his tomb, say the Tikkun Haklali and give a Peritah Lenismoasoa.
Of course since this is such an easy task, the Samech Mem has placed so many obstacles not to fulfill it.
A person never knows how many times he has been recreated unto this world where he has Chas Vesholem failed to fulfill his Tikun.
Rabbi Nachman has promised that he would be Mesaken a person who comes to his grave and says the Tikkun Haklali, and gives a Perituh Lezacher Nishmas Rabbi Nachman Z''L.
Rabbi Nachman Z"L writes that the Samech Mam places a Tzadik for a Nesoyan. Which means in order to be Zoacha to a Tikun a person might even hear from a Tzadik not to go. If the person is smart enough, he says what could I lose. Here in Uman there is a Tzadik, who has promised to save my soul, why shouldn't I fulfill that easy task.
Rosh Hasanah in Uman does not mean leaving a family behind.
If a person, Chas Vesholem, has a court case involving a life sentence, and he travels to a lawyer for a week away from his family, Or, Chas Vesholem if a person is sick, and he travels to far from home hospital does it in any way mean a moral problem or even a halachic one. It would be self understood that the person is doing the right thing as he is traveling there to save his life.
Rosh Hashanah, is the day where we are all being judged by Hakodosh Boruc Hu. Rabbi Nachman is our lawyer and doctor. Rabbi Nachman Z"L said that who ever comes to him for Rosh Hasanah should be happy the entire year, as he has been Zoacha for a blessed year.
A Skelener Chosid once related to me how his father came in to complain about his son who wanted to travel for Rosh Hasanah to Uman. The Skelener Rabbi Shelitah replied: I'm Mamash Mekanah your son, I wish if I could have been Zoacha to leave my Chasiddus behind and go there for Rosh Hashanah.
That people should travel to him for Rosh HaShanah was one of the things Rebbe Nachman was most emphatic about. "Although many other chassidim traveled to the Tzaddikim for Rosh HaShanah, there was no one who was as insistent about the matter as Rebbe Nachman" (Tzaddik #23). He said, "My Rosh HaShanah is completely new. God gave me the gift of knowing what Rosh HaShanah is" (ibid.#406). Rebbe Nachman said that on Rosh HaShanah he was able to help people in certain ways that he simply was not able to the rest of the year (Tzaddik #406). He put so much stress on the importance of his Rosh HaShanah that he exclaimed, "My very essence is Rosh HaShanah!" (ibid. #403).
May we all bee Zoacha for a Kesivah Vechasimah Tovah.
23
Sep 08, 2008 at 01:20 PM Uman Visitor Says:
To VIN: The Picture, in the article, Portrays Uman as a collection of weird people. I have been there multiple times. Uman is a place of every type of Jew. Thousands of serious, intelligent, Frum, observant, Chassidim, Litvak, Ashkenaz, Sefard, Mizrochi Jews are traveling each year to Uman. It's a collective view similar to that of Meron, of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, who attracts every single Jew. Many Yidden and me included have been Zocha to see many miracles there. I wish if VIN would allow me to post my pictures from Uman. I have tons of pictures portraying beautiful views of the real Uman. It’s a Sin to post a picture of a minority as a reflection of the Holy tombstone of the Holy Tzadik. Also the picture is not adjacent to the tombstone, it’s adjacent to one of the Shuls. (There are many Minyumin in Uman, there is even a Satmar and a Libatvicher. Almost each year a new Shul is being added to accommodate the tens of thousands Yiddeen BE"H.)
A Git Gebentched Your
24
Sep 08, 2008 at 01:39 PM GHU Says:
I'm not the type to do this stuff....but Went last year. Was surprisingly and amazingly powerful, joyful, sweet and uplifting.
Even shocked myself with attending Minyan consistantly since came back.... go figure.
25
Sep 08, 2008 at 02:02 PM r u serious Says:
Breslov is not the fastest growing chassidus.
Chassidus is with a living Rebbe. Breslov is a movement that uses chassidic idea's. Just like the renewal movement rm'l
26
Sep 08, 2008 at 02:33 PM Rebbe 3 Says:
And all these people that go complain about tuition! This trip is a waste of money. 2000.00 on a trip to Uman is this what go-d wants from us?
27
Sep 08, 2008 at 02:53 PM I was in Uman Says:
I have been going to Uman for 3 years now. i can assure you that this is the most (from the most for sure) amazing uplifting place to be. I can say on myself after going only 1 time it made a tremendous difference in my life.(for the good)and each year is more amazing then the next.
I wish everyone, were ever they may be for RH, to see the true light in THE (or A) Tzadik and to have a Kesivah Vechasimah Tovah
28
Sep 08, 2008 at 02:59 PM political analyst Says:
I went to uman for rosh hashana for the first time six years ago not knowing what to expect. I have been going back since then. anyone who hasn't been there for rosh hashana simply doesn't know what's going on there. it is the most amazing spiritual experience in the entire world. I highly recommend any jew of any background or level of commitment to go at least once. you won't regret it. don't worry about the costs. rebbe nachman said rosh hashana is on him. you will NOT regret it. if you're still not sure take a look at the first rema in the shulchan aruch.
29
Sep 08, 2008 at 03:10 PM Choizik Says:
I would like to watch, the next time the Rebbe gets Hagbah!
30
Sep 08, 2008 at 03:28 PM yeapb Says:
I don't mind them going to Uman for Rosh Hashono, I DO mind them coming over here collecting money to fund their trip (not specifically stated but - for parnoso reasons).
31
Sep 08, 2008 at 03:32 PM Uman Uman ey Says:
In Uman they eat mango with the simonim on Rosh Hashono. "Man go to Uman; wife and kids stay at home"
32
Sep 08, 2008 at 03:46 PM open your eyes Says:
In the main article:
What about Rabbi Nachman’s promise to exclude from hell all those who visit in Uman?
Sorry, but to be excluded from hell, do tshuva. Now is Elul, the month of mercy, the gates are open. Turn a new leaf, resolve to not sin, and Hashem will give you and sweet and good new year.
Having said that, I have friends that went to Uman and were inspired by the spirituality and feeling there over RH. B"H over the past 10 years they have made serious strides to cleaning Uman of the drugs, shmutz and nafkahs that outnumbered the visitors, vidal. A friend whose been going 20 years described the scene when every prostitute in Ukraine was working uman on RH. The breslov leadership worked very hard to clean it up, and they deserve credit for it.
33
Sep 08, 2008 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:
Rav Ovadia Yosef said this last year It is time that this is stopped, if a person decides to leave his family that is beween him and his family, but as someone said to give so much money to this country that murdered Jews, what a terrible thing, this is not Yerushalayim to be oleh regel.
34
Sep 08, 2008 at 03:42 PM shmiel glassman Says:
a few points:
the picture is unaccurate:the majority are not quacks or wierdos
speak to a normal person that goes ,ask ,hear the facts ask him what he felt,
as far as the cost ,ability to afford ,collecting for it...leaving family behind ..these are questions each family must deal with on an individual basis.
The reason it keeps growing is not because of a fad ..fads die out "it is because YES there is a "koach in Uman" " something spiritual & unique if you can get it in your local shul
ashrecha
35
Sep 08, 2008 at 04:08 PM TD Says:
the wholemoney to ukrainians argument is overstated and silly.
% of the money goes to ....80% goes to Delta,15% goes to the jewish guys who arrange the beds and food, 5% (amounts to about $90) to a ukrainian cab driver
if that scares you , don't take cab in Brooklyn etc.
36
Sep 08, 2008 at 05:47 PM Bernard Says:
Ger among other chassidic groups during the interwar years did alot of outreach with the youth. Ger was successful there as many as 10,000 kids under Bar Mitzvah spending Yom Kippur with the Imrei Emmet.
My Mother told me My Grandmother remebers chartered trains traveling to Vishnitz for the holidays.
BTW yes because money is tight I will not be going to Uman but from Israel it is only a 2 hour flight and if one camps out you can make do fairly cheaply but from the States it is a few thousand $$$ and that is beyond the budget ASHREICHEM whoever can afford to go.
37
Sep 08, 2008 at 06:08 PM Milhouse Says:
I suppose all these critics say the same thing about Me'oras Hamachpela and Kever Rochel.
38
Sep 08, 2008 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:
IMHO, the people that have a mesora to go to Uman should go and those who don't should plunder their homes while they are away
39
Sep 08, 2008 at 07:32 PM saba-noon Says:
Simple, Rebbe Nachman said to go to Uman for Rosh HaShana and say the 10 psalms, give a litttle charity and do Tshuvah and He will help. If you don't then your on your own. Obviously Avraham Avinu is not enough. Otherwise why would we be reincarnating all these generations, will all this new Torah coming out? Besides Saba says Rebbe Nachman is Avraham Avinu! duh! There is a Moshe Rebainu for every generation. Rebbe Nachman is the Moshe Rebainu for this generation. What Moshe Rebainu is not enough for you? I'm so sick of this "normal" be like a goy, and don't be different" type of Judaism personally. Not very spiritual. Rebbe Nachman.. spiritual and more. Helped me a lot. helped a lot of people a lot. Very arrogant of this "Rabbi" saying such things as if money and family are more important then G-d and torah. I suppose he thinks that Rabbi Akiva was home with his wife for the holidays... Not the gemorah that I read.. What does this guy read? Sounds like Messekta "money is more important then the will of the Tzadik" and Messekta "Your wife is your Boss" Yeah, I know it well, I was like that too and worse. Then I found the teachings of Rebbe Nachman Tzadik Yesod Olam. Things started to change for me. Money spent on a mitzvah. I guess also crying tears to G-d is also not part of the 613 is it? Which Mitzvah is that? Don't need to do that? How much is this guy's shul worth? How many of your kids are going off the Derek? Better accept Rebbe Nachman now as the Saviour of your Soul or be forced to when Moshiac comes. Do you all believe in Moshiach? Do you think that Moshiach thinks that Yiddishkeit is just grand right now? Wake up, cry to Hashem. Know the truth. Rebbe Nachman Loves Am Israel and HaShem sent us a great gift. I think that this "Rav" probably also reads Likutey Moharan by Rebbe Nachman but he is just keeping it for himself, that is how he is able to rule such a large congregation. But I read the book and I know where his bread is buttered. I suggest that you read Rebbe Nachman too, You will find it really wonderful and inspiring. Read the book before you offer a critique. The one's on this site that oppose Rebbe Nachman seem to be really ignorant as to what The Rebbe says. Those that are into Rebbe Nachman seem to be a lot more with it. I'm happy to see that many more are for it then against. Falsehood will fall, Truth will rise. Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman!!
40
Sep 08, 2008 at 11:41 PM Breslov Chosid Says:
to saba-noon:
Your article is well inspired, however remove the conclusion which is a Chilul Hashem, and a Chilul Tzadik.
The whole idea of Na Nach is just degrading the name of Breslov. Na Nachs does not in any way represent breslov. Many Yidden would have been Zoacha to be Mekurav LeBreslov if not for the Klipa of the Na Nach drugetics.
I'm well closed with Breslov and B"H the NA Nachs are not recognized in breslov as breslov chasidim.
The Na Nach "movement" was started by a group of French baalei teshuvah who discovered an elderly Breslover Chassid named Rabbi Yisrael Ber Odesser z"l in an old age home in Eretz Yisrael. When they heard his story about having received a "petek" or letter from Rebbe Nachman when he was a bochur in Slonimer Yeshivah, they believed Reb Yisrael Ber and began to disseminate the now-famous petek and the "mantra" it contained: "Na Nach Nachma Nachman me-Uman!"
It was publically known and told by Rav Zvi Ashkenazi, a Slonimer Chassid and one of the leading shochtim u'bodkim in America, that his grandfather Reb Joel Z"L had written the petek and tucked it into one of Reb Yisrael Ber's seforim as a childish prank. But when he told his extremely devout and temimusdikeh classmate that it was a joke, Reb Yisrael Ber refused to believe him. (Which shows you the danger of letzonus! which caused a big Chilul Hashem to Breslov)
The Na Nach group is a totally marginal phenomenon in Breslov today and not one Breslover gadol buys the business of the petek. But for these kids, the Na Nach sect with its rejection of middle class culture and its pursuit of electric niggunim ecstacy is a way to express themselves in a religious world that for one reason or another they can't relate to.
It's a Chorben, as one of the great leaders of Breslov said, that if not of the Na Nachs, many Yidden would have been Zoacha to be Mekurav to Rabbi Nachman Z"L.
Every person should at least once in his lifespan be in Uman. It's a promise made by Rabbi Nachman with two witness that who ever comes to his grave, and gives a Perituh Letzedukah will be Zocha to Tikun Nitchi.
Kesivah Vechasimah Tovah.
41
Sep 09, 2008 at 04:43 AM saba-noon Says:
Dear Breslover Chusid, thanks for the free publicity. : ) Love you so much..
42
Sep 09, 2008 at 04:17 AM r u serious Says:
As you see they believe that u must accept rav nachman as the savior. Sounds familiar?
43
Sep 09, 2008 at 03:55 AM moving to the Left Says:
If we have to leave our homes and families for the Yamim Noraim for this "spiritual experience" then maybe we should pack up and move to Uman full time. I looked everywhere in the Torah and couldn't find this halacha anywhere. The only thing I did see was "Tamim thiyeh im Hashem Elokecha." So let's stop with the superstitions and be with our families and watch our kinderlach over these great and awesome days.
44
Sep 09, 2008 at 01:34 AM Vote McCain - Palin In 08! Says:
For all of you who go to Uman for yom tov keep in mind that one of the things we remember fondly once we grow up is daving yomim noraim next to our fathers or grandfathers. While you are in Uman, who will be our fathers?
45
Sep 09, 2008 at 08:05 AM saba-noon Says:
You opposers to Breslov are like Korach, You must accept Moshe Rebainu or go to where Korach is. Sound familar? No? Make up your own Judiasm? There is a Moshe Rabainu in every generation. You know it says that in the Gemorah? Do you suppose that Moshe Rabainu has a Big fat shul? Belief in this "Rav" and of "Rav" Ovadia Yoseph is superstition, hocus pocus and black magic. Who died and left them in charge that they can be so dog faced as to go against one word of Rebbe Nachman the Holy Tzadik Yesod Olam, the River that purifies of all blemishes, the elder of elders, the flowing brook source of all wisdom. They all better do Tshuvah Real quick and beg Hashem for mercy for speaking like this against Rebbe Nachman. For where we are all going (the world of truth), buildings and money and honor are worthless. Actually they are all worthless now too. Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman!!!
46
Sep 09, 2008 at 09:32 AM Anonymous Says:
I think going to Uman is weird, why is that different than going to any Godol wuo is dead. why is that different than going to the bobov grave or satmer rebbie grave?
PS as far as protecting yiddin from going to hell because “We were already acquitted from hell by Abraham… " I do not think so, I can think of many yiddin who would get a pass. And if one thinks this is true why is it different than confession as per the Roman Catholic church.
Side track
I always thought that we Jews believe in crime and punishment I guess I am wrong. Now I see why all the yeshivas keep the child molesters and do not punish them. If g-d won't why should we.
47
Sep 09, 2008 at 11:46 AM saba-noon Says:
The difference between going to Uman or any other place is the Difference between Rebbe Nachman and all the other Tzadikim. The Bobov with not help you in the afterlife niether will Satmer. Only Rebbe Nachman can help. Only Rebbe Nachman said He could help.
A Catholic Priest is Worshiping an false idol, So a Catholic Priest is a fool. Fools cannot help. Rebbe Nachman is Truely Wise. "A wise man will atone."
We jews do believe in Crime and Punishment. For example The "Rav" of this article who said these lies will get punished for it.
48
Sep 09, 2008 at 12:45 PM Breslov Chosid Says:
It's worthy to read what Rosh Hashanah Says: He actually answers all questions. Also saba-noon Says: is also worthy to read (except for his Conclusion Nah...Nac..) As we are approaching the high holidays, people should be careful about making Choazek of the holy Tzadik. If you have "Sachel" and you want to save your soul, then kindly don't listen to all these Choazeks, as these jokes won't save you Beoalam Haboa. Remember the one who laughs the last is the winner. Oaz Vehoader Levisoa Vatizchak Leyoam Hoacroan: On our last day when we have to return our soul to Hashem, the holy Tzadik will be there to fulfill his promise to the person who has been Zoacha to be at his tombstone. If you don't believe in it then you don't believe in Hashem either. The Tiferes Sholomo Z"L says Vayaminuh Bahashem IbeMoshe Avdoa. The one who doesn't believe in the Tzadik simply implies that he doesn't believe BahaKodesh BoRuch Hu. Yidden, for you own sake do the right move. On your last day, all the jokes won’t be there to save you. It will only be the Tzadikims promises to save your soul, and bring it Leoalam Hanitzchi.
A brother who wishes to every Yid a sweet and healthy year.
49
Sep 09, 2008 at 03:32 PM naanaach Says:
BH"Y I will be going to Uman for Rosh Hashana, already when I was learning with a talmid of the Brisker Rav and was attending litvishe Yeshivos Hashem Yisburach had mercy on me and started me learning the holy teaching of our Master Rabbi Nachman, however at that point Rabbi Nachman to me was just another Rabbi, even though/still I read almost everything he wrote. If at that point someone would have offered me a trip to Uman for Rosh Hashana I probably would have jumped aboard but I did not have enough sense to really yearn for this and attempt to get there.
Then H"Y decided to really have compasion on me and he introduced me to the Nanach (including Saba Noon who at that time was only Nanach friendly), that is when I started to realize that Rabbi Nachman is not just another Rabbi, he is in fact the Chief Head Fish! That is when I knew I had to listen to Rabbi Nachman, it's not just more advice, different sgulos or the like, this is the real thing, this is the Head of all Jewry! This is H"Y's right hand man! So B"H He pulled off some miracles and I made to Uman, and more miracles, I made it ever since!
Forget about money and goyim, even forget about absolvement, if you want to have compassion on yourself and the whole world, and return normalcy and order, and restore the Glory of The Kingdom Of G-d, start paying attention to what Rabbi Nachman says! Like they say 'give Nanach a chance'! It's only about 25 years since Nanach has been in action, and already it is hard to go four feet in Israel without being reminded that you have a chance!- Nanach is there for you! There is a G-d! G-d is One! G-d is good!
B"H Jewry had many holy Rabbis, but if you really want the real thing, but really want, and the real real thing, and you don't want to settle for anything less, then you will not be detterred by the silly impediments which are like a coin held in front of an eye obstructing all sight. Why do we have money in the first place if not to use for Nanach! You have a dollar, buy a Nanach sticker - light up your soul - do something for mankind for civilization.
The truth is if not for Nanach, and for Saba Noon, it was hard for me to face the great depression lingering over this discussion. Shame on you! What type of Jews are you? True it's hard when your on the internet, the power of evil is overwhelming, but Hashem Y' gave us Nanach, so you have the means to beat internet times a billion and then some. Snap out of it. Get into Nanach!
Do you want to be ar real person, have a real life, or do you want to stagnate with peer pressure and society.
Nanach offers you freedom to serve G-d with your own developed personality and character!
If you can't make it to Uman, at least be with the Nanach at Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai or at the Kosel!
If your unable to leave you wife and kids, why can't you bring them, enough people do.
Who said thousands of dollars tickets are, to my knowledge, still available at less than $1000. The main thing is to be convinced and to convince G-d of you conviction, the rest will be taken care of.
The main thing is Na Nach Nachmu Nachmun MayUman!
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Sep 09, 2008 at 03:43 PM naanaach Says:
the guy in the picture they posted is a givald, he just got married this year! We could use more pictures
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Sep 09, 2008 at 07:09 PM Breslov Chosid Says:
Na Nach is not part of Breslov. They're a bunch of Meshigoyim. Rabbi Nachman Z"L was very strict about following every thing written in Shilchun Urach.
The Na Nach "movement" was started by a group of French baalei teshuvah who discovered an elderly Breslover Chassid named Rabbi Yisrael Ber Odesser z"l in an old age home in Eretz Yisrael. When they heard his story about having received a "petek" or letter from Rebbe Nachman when he was a bochur in Slonimer Yeshivah, they believed Reb Yisrael Ber and began to disseminate the now-famous petek and the "mantra" it contained: "Na Nach Nachma Nachman me-Uman!"
It was publically known and told by Rav Zvi Ashkenazi, a Slonimer Chassid and one of the leading shochtim u'bodkim in America, that his grandfather Reb Joel Z"L had written the petek and tucked it into one of Reb Yisrael Ber's seforim as a childish prank. But when he told his extremely devout and temimusdikeh classmate that it was a joke, Reb Yisrael Ber refused to believe him. (Which shows you the danger of letzonus! which caused a big Chilul Hashem to Breslov)
The Na Nach group is a totally marginal phenomenon in Breslov today and not one Breslover gadol buys the business of the petek. But for these kids, the Na Nach sect with its rejection of middle class culture and its pursuit of electric niggunim ecstacy is a way to express themselves in a religious world that for one reason or another they can't relate to.
Breslov is a holy and serious place who brings pride for every one who connects with him.
Na Nach is only a bunch of bumper stickers.
Why can't you connect to simple the fact of Rabbi Nachman Z"L itself. Why do you people trust an insurance agent, and not Rabbi Nachman Z"L. If Rabbi Nachman promised that a trip to UMAN will bring you Letikun Hanitzchi, and he will grant you a sweet year, then there should be no hesitation. Rabbi Nachman Z''L is charging only approx $1000 for his policy, this is approx how much a trip to Uman sums up. Be smart and do your soul the biggest favor.
Sweet Year
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Sep 09, 2008 at 08:29 PM saba-noon Says:
Dear Breslover Chosid
Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman! Na Nach is Breslov. They are the ones that are printing all thos Breslov books you are reading. Wake Up! Is not Loving another Breslover itself a way of getting close to Rebbe Nachman. Na Nach!!
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Sep 09, 2008 at 09:46 PM Breslov Chosid Says:
Dear saba-noon: Lets get the facts straight. All the small booklets are printed by Rabbi Schick Shilita who lives in Boro Park, and has a Kehilah in Yavnial in Isreal. You're a beloved Breslover Chosid, however I still feel that you should dissociate yourself with the weird slogan and false shameful saying of Na Nach. I met many who are saying that they don't want to have associations with Breslov due to the shameful acts of the Na Nachs. I do invite you to have a personal discussion on a email basis about your false stories, however when you try to explain to people about the greatness of Rabbi Nachman Z''L, you would have been greatly more convincing and more inspiring, if you would have omitted your conclusions. Even if you believe in that Shetisim, it should be consider on your behalf as something Ribi Oir in the publics eyes. Back to our brother ship, we are associate with a holy Rabbi, and Reb Nachman Z"l writes that who ever is associate with a Tzadik, has to be careful not to be Mecalel a Tzadik. Regardless what you believe. When you write about the greatness of Breslov, write only what would make the Tzadik holy and beloved to people. Thanks. Hopefully to meet you B"H in UMAN.
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Sep 09, 2008 at 11:00 PM saba-noon Says:
Dear Breslover Chosid,
Fact: Na Nach has sold over 8 million Breslov books. Likutey Moharon, Likutey Halachot, Sipurey Maisiot etc, Shik sells pamphlets not books of Rebbe Nachman so much if at all lately. Rebbe Nachman wished his books to be printed. Na Nach has sold the overwhelming majority of Rebbe Nachman's books and they sell them at printing cost. Look for the good in your fellow brothers.
Fact. Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman is the name of Rebbe Nachman in a single, double, triple, and quadruple way. There is nothing shameful about the name of the Tzadk. LM II 8 says that the name of the tzadik is dressed and in partnership with Hashem's name. (like a shophar) this song is the song of Redemption.
Fact: Na Nach as an organization has brought in a great deal of people to Judaism and kept them there. There is nothing "Shameful" about printing Rebbe Nachman books and dancing in Holiness and getting youth into the Mitzvot.
Fact: Na Nach is a group that keeps the Shulchan Auruch and teaches people to do so.
Fact:Rabbi Israel Ber Odesser (the Saba) is a Tzadik of the highest status. Associating oneself with him and his way one has a portion in the greatness of Rebbe Nachman, Turning against the Saba or slandering his name (or the name of his followers) one separates their soul from the Tzadik for they are separating themselves from his Holy and precious student.(the Saba and Na Nach)
fact: sometimes one can see someone with a Na Nach kipa that is only marginally Na Nach. Any true seeker of the real truth knows not to judge a group on the basis of the surface behaviour of an individual that they don't know.
fact: I don't have your email address, I really want to talk to you in a more private setting.
fact: I wish you and everyone you love a wonderful and beautiful New Year full of mitzvah's with simcha. B'H we will rejoice together in Uman! NNNNM!
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Sep 10, 2008 at 08:44 AM naanaach Says:
Dear 'Breslover Chosid' is it not denegrating the name of the tzadik for one who goes by his name to repost the same comment?! Unfortunately we read your slander the first time, why did you have to repeat it? Is Nanach getting to you? Try practice repeating positive statements over and over again not negative slander. Then you'll probably get a good feel for Nanach who are used to saying the greatest thing possible all the time - Na Nach Nachmu Nachmun MayUman!
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Sep 10, 2008 at 10:04 AM Breslov Chosid Says:
For the Tzadiks sake:
I possibly thought that I'll be able to get your people out of the "Meshigasim. The main reason of my comments, however, was to protest for the Kuvid of the Tzadik who is being so Mevuzah from the Nah Nach movement. I'm not here to convince, and the Rabbi was against Vikuchim.
In no way did I comment on the good things that your movement have done. What is good is good. Selling the Rabbis books for affordable prices, that is a Gevaldik.
Also didn’t I, Chas Vesholem comment personally on Rabbi Yisrael Ber Odesser z"l . Rabbi Yisrael Z”L was a holy person. He suffered many Redufus from people, for the only good reason that he was a Mekuruv LeTzadik. No one in Breslov is arguing against it. However it’s well know that the story of the Piskah was done by a person Rabbi Joel Ashkenezi Z”L, who tried to make Rab Yisrael Abisil Z”LBesimcha as he has been a Nirdaf in Slonim. Rabbi Joel publicly regretted his action, and publicly said that the reason why he tucked it in to Rabbi Yisrael’s pocket was to be Mesameach a bit Rabbi Yisrael.
Rabbi Yisrael Z’’l did not release that silly paper until he has reached the geriatric stage. At that point his mental status has been deteriorating, and his followers took advantage of it and started to make a bid deal out of it.
We won’t get anywhere from discussions. I only wanted that at least people who have Chalishas Hadas from the Nah Nachs, should know that they’re outcast by everyone associate with breslov. I don’t try to be Chas Vesholem personal, still I can’t retain my feelings for the holy Rabbi who is being Mevuzah by a few bumper-stickers.
One comment to sabbah: Kindly be respectful to any Yid and especially to Rabbonim associate with Breslov. You shouldn't call him schick. It will be more appropriate to call him Rabbi Schick. I do respect any one associate with breslov and as well Rabbi Schick. Rabbi Schick Shlita, and many others as well as your people are promoting the Rabbis Seforim throughout the world. We all share in common the willingness, and eager to promote the Rabbis light onto the world. We should all be Mispalel that our actions should bring a Kidush Hashem to the Tzadik.
Again kindly don’t be offended. I’ll be Mispalel for all of you that we should be doing the right action. We should be very Besimcha that we are being Zocha to be in UMAN for Rosh Hashanah. There’s no bigger thing than being in UMAN Rosh Hashanah.
Lets contiue this thread on the beauty of the Tzadik, and for what we all share in common. I do appologize about any personal conflict caused.
Have a Kesivah Vechasimah Tova
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Sep 10, 2008 at 12:31 PM naanaach Says:
Dear 'Breslover Chusid', what do you mean when you say that the Saba went senile but we shouldn't take it personally?!! Basicly your saying we're senile, but we shouldn't take it personaly. Isn't that senile. Now that we have set it at that, let's us establish that the Saba never went senile C"V. At the time when you say that the Saba went senile, Saba met with R' Moshe Feinstien who was very taken and impressed by the Saba, even to the extent that he called his rebetzin in to get a Brocha from him. He also revealed to the Saba of his illness that he had not revealed to almost anyone, so that the Saba would pray for him. R' M.F. also writes that he was inspired by the Petek! R' M.F. also testifies that the Saba is very knowledgible in Kabala, something R' Moshe always refused to talk about at all. So are you going to say that R. Moshe also was senile then, after all he was just about 2 years before his death, and he was in his nineties then. Well the more people you consider senile the more I guess you'll establish it as the norm. Enjoy it, We'll enjoy Na Nach!
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Sep 10, 2008 at 12:38 PM naanaach Says:
about respecting Rabbis. Judiasm is very much about respecting everyone and everything, in contra distinction to Amulaik.... It is one thing for a litvak or the like to profess to be a rabbi and have a tradition, because they are in a way so off on their own way there's not much more that would be expected. But for someone to claim he is Breslov and proclaim himself to be a rabbi, that is worse than hypocrisy, and as we don't resort to violence, it is at least our duty to let people know of the danger of these honor, power, lust, seekers. The truth be known that here has arisen someone who claims to be Nanach who is rapidly making it known that he wants people to honor him etc. and the Nanach are ostrisizing him. However the more one is really Nanach, the more it is almost impossible to be trying to seize power and the like, as you yourself say it is so degrading.... So the more a Nanach gets honor and power it is only as strong as Nanach is - so all if it is going to Nanach! Now once you admit, that Petek or C"V no Petek, Na Nach is Rabbi Nachman's name in the Kabalistic form called Achuraim, you'll see that this is an amazing way of giving honor to the Tzadik who gives it to G-d.
NNNNM!
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Sep 10, 2008 at 02:48 PM saba-noon Says:
Dear Breslover Chosid and anyone else who's reading,
" What is good is good. Selling the Rabbis books for affordable prices, that is a Gevaldik."
It is the HOLY OF HOLIES. Rav Nussun said that this was extremely important. Rabbi Yitzchak Brieter said about Printing and distributing the Rebbe's Books and spreading his teachings:
"This is the fundamental activity because through it all jews will be brought to the true path. That is our ulitmate goal, the goal for which all the worlds were created, This activity must be the "holy of holies for all the followers fo the Tzadik and they should selflessly devote all their energies to it. They should constantly seek ways of espanding these activities and spreading the Rebbe's teaching further and further abroad in order to inspire every Jewish soul to come to G-d."
Sounds like Na Nach is doing this a lot, more then anyone else. printing and distributing the books of Rebbe Nachman. Na Nach is doing the Holy of Holies not anything "meshugah" Saba gave all his money for this. Is that also senile? We don't think so, we think it's great! we want to be like that. give all of our money only for the distribution of Rebbe Nachman's books and teachings. Do you think we're senile too?
and who is Mevazeling the Tzadik after what you said about Saba and R' Moshe Feinstein. You should to take that back publically.
Saba told his Holy followers to make Na Nach stickers and signs and music and art etc. Following the instructions of The Holy Saba, Rebbe Nachman loves Saba, Saba is a precious student of the Holy Tzadik yesod Olam.
Personally, after I have learned the books of Rebbe Nachman though Na Nach, I have had tremendous, tremendous healing in my mind body and soul and continue to grow more and more in Halacha, prayer, love of Jews etc. The likes of which I have never experienced before. This is the power of Rebbe Nachman! Rebbe Nachman will draw every Jew in the world closer to G-d. Rebbe Nachman said that the printing of his book (which Na Nach does more than anyone) is the begining of Redemption. I like Na Nach, Yeah! Na Nach prints Rebbe Nachman's books! Yeah! Na Nach is bringing the Redemption! Yeah!
I never said anything bad to you. I assume you meant nothing bad about what you said. I assume that you did not know. We really should be together as much as possible on this. But when I hear or read anything bad about Rebbe Nachman or about Saba or about Na Nach, I am forced to defend it. For with these Tzadikim did I see the Light of G-d. And by following their advice did I receive all my shefa. Spiritual and physical. And Barooch Hashem, I have a lot of Shefa. My life means everything to me. I owe my life to these tzadikim that showed me true Judaism. I must defend them to my very death. for I owe my life to them. Rebbe Nachman and Saba and all the true students of the Rebbe. when you say things like you have in your last post, you place me in a position to fight, I don't want to fight so please don't say anything at all degrading in the slightest about Saba or his followers, if you don't want to fight. My first post I posted I was defending you as much as any Breslover, you were the one that started it, by saying deragatory things about a Breslov group. So let's just try to be friends.
Na Nach Nachma Nachman MeUman!!!!!!
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Sep 12, 2008 at 10:45 AM Reb Yid Says:
I hope the va'ad hatznius or other kanoim don't go after him over this.
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Sep 14, 2008 at 12:43 PM naanaach Says:
getting back to the original topic, that this rabbi says that going to Uman isn't one of the 613 mitzvos, that is completely unacceptable - the most important mitzva is clinging to G-d and the Sifrey as well as Talmud and Zohar and many other holy books say that this is refferring to clinging to the Tzadikim.
Even if this wasn't the case G-d forbid, being Happy and going to the Mikve (men) according to the majority of the monay hamitzvos aren't considered part of the 613 yet everyone agree they are the most fundamental of the whole Tora, so shame on anyone to start up with the tennats of our belief!
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Sep 15, 2008 at 10:17 PM Breslov Chosid Says:
It's very painful to witnessed how people tend to believe that commenting on Rabbi Nachman Z"L is something that they could get away with it. I know personally stories of people who expressed themselves in not respectful words against Rabbi Nachman Z"L, and their end was very sad RC“L.
I'm not Chas VeSholem here to judge any-one for their expressions. However, my lovely brothers, beware "Tizoheir Begechalton". If you had said something in the pass not respectfully, then come to his tombstone and ask for forgiveness . The Teshuvah gate is always open. The Holy Tzadik Rabbi Nachman Z”L said Im Atah Mamin SheYecholim Lekalkel Tamin Sheyecholin Lesaken.
If Rabbi Nachman did say to go to Uman for Rosh Hashanah, it should be self understood that talking against a Tzadiks command means playing with fire. If you don't believe in him then pray to Hashem that he should give you the Aminuh Bahashem, IbeMoshe Avdoa. At least don't come out publicly and dissuade people not to lesson to a Tzadiks Command.
Read all the threads of people who acted smart, and traveled to Uman for Rosh Hashanah. These people were smart and did had Rachmunius on themselves, and have been Zoacha to a Tikun.
Mitzvah Lismoah Divrei Chachomim in one of the 613 Mitzvahs. We have to lit the Chanukah candles also for the only reason explained in Talmud that whatever the Chachomim are saying is a part of the Mitzvah Lismoah Divrei Chachomim.
Hopefully to meet the entire Klal Yisroel there.
Kesivah Vechasimah Tovah
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Dec 18, 2008 at 12:11 PM george Says:
“ You have to see it for what it is,a BIG squander
of precious momon yisroel.
Based on a legend,and fable,it is a shame that yiddish funds,are wasted on such banalities,
Hashem Yair Eineinu. ”
good for you if you dont want to go
but for the many thousands that do and surely have some rabbinical guidance
they get inspiration for everything thta they have to contend with during the year
including people like you who dont understand what they feel!