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New York - DOE Probe Into Brooklyn Yeshivas Over Secular Schooling Draws Skepticism From Local Groups

Published on: August 6, 2015 03:15 PM
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Brooklyn, NY - Local watchdog groups are expressing skepticism over the DOE’s plan to rely solely on data provided by 39 Brooklyn-area yeshivas currently under investigation in determining whether or not the schools are meeting state requirements regarding secular education for students.

THEJEWISHWEEK.com (http://bit.ly/1IZgYrv) reports that the state opened an investigation into the yeshivas—-located primarily in Williamsburg and Borough Park—-upon receipt last week of a letter signed by 52 Jewish community members who charged that schools routinely fall dramatically short of meeting DOE guidelines.

In announcing its probe, reps for the DOE said that a “set of requests” will be issued to the schools in question “soon” and that based on the information the yeshivas provide superintendents will then make decisions as to whether or not state guidelines on secular education are being met.

Norman Siegel, a civil rights attorney for the group Yaffed (Young Advocates for Fair Education), questioned the DOE’s approach, saying that the plan will likely fall short of meeting the criteria of being “thorough, independent, and fair.”

“I’m not discounting anyone’s credibility, but it’s easy to say something on paper. It’s important for the DOE to see what’s actually happening in yeshivas,” Seigel said.


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1

 Aug 06, 2015 at 03:43 PM Maven Says:

Nice to see how some losers are concerned about yeshiva education.
Once the Yeshivas will start following what these losers are requesting that orthodox kids should get a good secular education they will behave much better. Orthodox kids will be educated and thought that guns and knives are wrong to walk around with. No more drugs will be sold in Yeshivas. No more of rampant stealing cars.

What a bunch of losers these off the derech people are.

2

 Aug 06, 2015 at 04:04 PM OntheOtherHand Says:

A bunch of Misyavnim!

4

 Aug 06, 2015 at 05:16 PM OscarMadison Says:

The yeshivot provide an excellent education in how to commit fraud, run hustles, hate others not like you, and grammar for dummies!

5

 Aug 06, 2015 at 05:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Maven Says:

Nice to see how some losers are concerned about yeshiva education.
Once the Yeshivas will start following what these losers are requesting that orthodox kids should get a good secular education they will behave much better. Orthodox kids will be educated and thought that guns and knives are wrong to walk around with. No more drugs will be sold in Yeshivas. No more of rampant stealing cars.

What a bunch of losers these off the derech people are.

Learning mathematics and reading/writing proper English are important skills. Except for losers.

6

 Aug 06, 2015 at 05:19 PM Anonymous Says:

stick to facts ther is anogh colort propogande against yewish religjes schoolsreminset of of the stormer and Pravda my English is from public night school as a 19 years emigrant and working by day compare the civility from our school and your public scholl you and you r acsiates mr. siegal, destroyed the education of generatins of American youth special blaks be anest a hard worker!

7

 Aug 06, 2015 at 05:31 PM alterknaker Says:

Reply to #4  
OscarMadison Says:

The yeshivot provide an excellent education in how to commit fraud, run hustles, hate others not like you, and grammar for dummies!

#4, just like the non frum yeshibos, or gentile schools, according to your opinion, now shut up

8

 Aug 06, 2015 at 06:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Maven Says:

Nice to see how some losers are concerned about yeshiva education.
Once the Yeshivas will start following what these losers are requesting that orthodox kids should get a good secular education they will behave much better. Orthodox kids will be educated and thought that guns and knives are wrong to walk around with. No more drugs will be sold in Yeshivas. No more of rampant stealing cars.

What a bunch of losers these off the derech people are.

I do agree with you these OTD guys are loosers. But its still a worthwhile cause. You have not provided any intellectual argument as to why the cause is bad. Sometimes you need a loser to stand up and face the crowd simply because anyone form our own society would be shunned by the rabbonim if they did it.
Now re the substance of the secular studies debate;
1) First and foremost, ninth graders are not sitting and learning a whole day. Todays yehshiva with no or limited unstrict english departments end up shleping out the day ro keep these bored souls entertained. These kids grow up with very limited values toward structure and time mangement. I have yet to find those who attended non secular studies yeshivas being greater talmdi chachomim verse those that do. What I have found is that students of the non secular studies yeshivas are more lax, tend to smoke more, party more etc...
2) Take your typical guy who does not have the entrepreneurial mind set and needs his 9-5 job with a set weekly pay check. Yes of course he can succeed in school and work without english if he puts his head to it but its defintely more challenging

9

 Aug 06, 2015 at 06:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Maven Says:

Nice to see how some losers are concerned about yeshiva education.
Once the Yeshivas will start following what these losers are requesting that orthodox kids should get a good secular education they will behave much better. Orthodox kids will be educated and thought that guns and knives are wrong to walk around with. No more drugs will be sold in Yeshivas. No more of rampant stealing cars.

What a bunch of losers these off the derech people are.

Lest someone invoke the silly Volozin mytth that the yeshivas tell you, let me set the record straight. Volozin did have secular studies. it only shut its doors when the government insisted that it "primarly" teach secular studies and only learn torah night seder. On top of that there were some in house fighting.

10

 Aug 06, 2015 at 06:02 PM confusedmom Says:

Please do not comment on things you know nothing at all about. My husband grew up in New Square and never brought lunch from home. Neither do any of my children attending 3 different schools in boro park. They all get hot lunches in school. How can my husband have stories about sneaking into the kitchen if there were no kitchens? How can he tell me stories about the cook if there was no cook? Unless, of course, all his childhood memories are really a result of brainwashing and never happened.

11

 Aug 06, 2015 at 06:07 PM Tea Party Says:

Reply to #1  
Maven Says:

Nice to see how some losers are concerned about yeshiva education.
Once the Yeshivas will start following what these losers are requesting that orthodox kids should get a good secular education they will behave much better. Orthodox kids will be educated and thought that guns and knives are wrong to walk around with. No more drugs will be sold in Yeshivas. No more of rampant stealing cars.

What a bunch of losers these off the derech people are.

If we want to stop this radicaliztion of the masses we really must start with the charedim in Israel. I know it sounds crazy,. what does the USA have to do with Israel. We all go there get influenced and look up to them in matters of judiasm. thats where the no secular studies in the USA came from. Its time o take the fight to its source. Why no secular studies in israel? And when will the charedim go to work? Stop "adopting kollels" start "adopting jobs". Yes those currently over 24 can work with NO ARMY services. And the charedim run the government. They can easily solve the army/ work issue. But they won't. and the more radiaclized they become the more we follow. Thats why its a mitzva to give them a few kicks.

12

 Aug 06, 2015 at 06:19 PM The_Truth Says:

While I seriously believe that everyone should have a secular education, I have difficulty understanding how many of the top successful real estate agents, managers & many businessmen were 'educated' in these yeshivos!!!
It baffles me and the Menahalim/Rabbeim have told me - A basic secular education may be needed, but look how many successful people there are without more than basic secular education and no college education at all!

13

 Aug 06, 2015 at 06:40 PM Shlomo2 Says:

Reply to #12  
The_Truth Says:

While I seriously believe that everyone should have a secular education, I have difficulty understanding how many of the top successful real estate agents, managers & many businessmen were 'educated' in these yeshivos!!!
It baffles me and the Menahalim/Rabbeim have told me - A basic secular education may be needed, but look how many successful people there are without more than basic secular education and no college education at all!

Dear baffled: Well, for one thing it helps with statistics.
Specifically, how to understand why what happens to the 90% is a greater predictor than what happens to the 10%.

14

 Aug 06, 2015 at 06:44 PM favish Says:

#3 are you for real?! No kitchens in Square or other yeshivahs!? What hateful liar you are! I go plenty times to these Yeshivahs, including Square town, and can have a delicious hot breakfast,lunch, supper anytime, even i'm not from them. Since i'm more in Square, I can say, they not only serve delicious hot food but high class(for Yeshivah standard) breaded cutlet , stuffed chicken with beautiful side dishes AND PLENTIFUL. Your comments and others like you for hate of ehrlicher shomrei torah has no bounds

15

 Aug 06, 2015 at 07:27 PM favish Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

Lest someone invoke the silly Volozin mytth that the yeshivas tell you, let me set the record straight. Volozin did have secular studies. it only shut its doors when the government insisted that it "primarly" teach secular studies and only learn torah night seder. On top of that there were some in house fighting.

#19 That's your own fairy tale version

16

 Aug 06, 2015 at 08:05 PM Abba_S Says:

Most yeshivas have a decent secular studies program. But you must realize that in the older grades 6-12, yeshiva starts at 7:30 AM and secular studies doesn't start until 3:00 PM. By this time students are inattentive and have difficulty learning.

As far a student lunch programs, there are inspectors checking how the food is served and insuring that they meet health code standards in NYC..

Here in NY state most ( or at least many) yeshiva high schools require their students to take the regents which is a statewide test given in many subjects throughout the high school years to all high school students who want to receive a regents diploma upon graduating. The average students mark can be used to grade the high school without visiting the school. .

Likewise there are standard tests that are administrated through out the state in third and sixth grade which can be used to grade the school without having to visit the school..

If the BOE decides to get involved there is the problem of separation of church & state. These kids will require special ed.and the BOE will have to " rent rooms " in the yeshivas to provide the special ed, subsidizing the yeshivas.

17

 Aug 06, 2015 at 10:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
confusedmom Says:

Please do not comment on things you know nothing at all about. My husband grew up in New Square and never brought lunch from home. Neither do any of my children attending 3 different schools in boro park. They all get hot lunches in school. How can my husband have stories about sneaking into the kitchen if there were no kitchens? How can he tell me stories about the cook if there was no cook? Unless, of course, all his childhood memories are really a result of brainwashing and never happened.

Can't you read? Your husband went to school years ago.

18

 Aug 06, 2015 at 11:22 PM #9 Says:

Reply to #15  
favish Says:

#19 That's your own fairy tale version

No its not. Do your research my friend. Don't just rely on what your rebbe told you. These things can be factually proven.

19

 Aug 06, 2015 at 11:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Abba_S Says:

Most yeshivas have a decent secular studies program. But you must realize that in the older grades 6-12, yeshiva starts at 7:30 AM and secular studies doesn't start until 3:00 PM. By this time students are inattentive and have difficulty learning.

As far a student lunch programs, there are inspectors checking how the food is served and insuring that they meet health code standards in NYC..

Here in NY state most ( or at least many) yeshiva high schools require their students to take the regents which is a statewide test given in many subjects throughout the high school years to all high school students who want to receive a regents diploma upon graduating. The average students mark can be used to grade the high school without visiting the school. .

Likewise there are standard tests that are administrated through out the state in third and sixth grade which can be used to grade the school without having to visit the school..

If the BOE decides to get involved there is the problem of separation of church & state. These kids will require special ed.and the BOE will have to " rent rooms " in the yeshivas to provide the special ed, subsidizing the yeshivas.

The issue is not regarding the schools that offer a secular education form 3-6 in the afternoon. However, there is a new fad amoungst many yeshivsh and cahsidish schools to teach no secular studies at all for high schoolers.

20

 Aug 07, 2015 at 01:49 AM bigwheeel Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

stick to facts ther is anogh colort propogande against yewish religjes schoolsreminset of of the stormer and Pravda my English is from public night school as a 19 years emigrant and working by day compare the civility from our school and your public scholl you and you r acsiates mr. siegal, destroyed the education of generatins of American youth special blaks be anest a hard worker!

Anominus: ur engilsh just crecked me op. Obviesly ur ver a gut studnt in nite skool. yu lernt to spiek engilsh property.
yu ken bee de poster boy for engulsh edjucashon, Or the lack of it...!

21

 Aug 07, 2015 at 02:14 AM Mark Levin Says:

These faltschaphony chasidish ovsvorfs wouldn't be able to become educated if their lives depended on it.

Look at their holy rebbe and spokesperson lipa. He's in college for three years and still speaks English sounding like he has marbles in his mouth.

22

 Aug 07, 2015 at 02:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

stick to facts ther is anogh colort propogande against yewish religjes schoolsreminset of of the stormer and Pravda my English is from public night school as a 19 years emigrant and working by day compare the civility from our school and your public scholl you and you r acsiates mr. siegal, destroyed the education of generatins of American youth special blaks be anest a hard worker!

I think you are a perfect example of WHY these schools should teach basic skills in English & math. Night school? Get your money back.

23

 Aug 07, 2015 at 02:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
Tea Party Says:

If we want to stop this radicaliztion of the masses we really must start with the charedim in Israel. I know it sounds crazy,. what does the USA have to do with Israel. We all go there get influenced and look up to them in matters of judiasm. thats where the no secular studies in the USA came from. Its time o take the fight to its source. Why no secular studies in israel? And when will the charedim go to work? Stop "adopting kollels" start "adopting jobs". Yes those currently over 24 can work with NO ARMY services. And the charedim run the government. They can easily solve the army/ work issue. But they won't. and the more radiaclized they become the more we follow. Thats why its a mitzva to give them a few kicks.

Errr - sorry, but the GIRLS' schools in Israel do have strong secular education. I know, I'm Menahelet in one of them. The reason: so we can give the girls the skills they need to go and work for the next 40 years until they drop dead from working so hard & raising a bunch of kids at the same time, while their husbands sit & learn full time. I could say a lot more but I need my job too (although MY husband actually works & learns before & after his job.) I don't think it is right, however, to maaser on these US Yeshivos. Instead, parents should either demand some secular education or send their boys to a private class. Gut Shabbos.

24

 Aug 07, 2015 at 07:17 AM curious Says:

Reply to #16  
Abba_S Says:

Most yeshivas have a decent secular studies program. But you must realize that in the older grades 6-12, yeshiva starts at 7:30 AM and secular studies doesn't start until 3:00 PM. By this time students are inattentive and have difficulty learning.

As far a student lunch programs, there are inspectors checking how the food is served and insuring that they meet health code standards in NYC..

Here in NY state most ( or at least many) yeshiva high schools require their students to take the regents which is a statewide test given in many subjects throughout the high school years to all high school students who want to receive a regents diploma upon graduating. The average students mark can be used to grade the high school without visiting the school. .

Likewise there are standard tests that are administrated through out the state in third and sixth grade which can be used to grade the school without having to visit the school..

If the BOE decides to get involved there is the problem of separation of church & state. These kids will require special ed.and the BOE will have to " rent rooms " in the yeshivas to provide the special ed, subsidizing the yeshivas.

There is no longer a BOE. It is the DOE as it is city runned and not an elected board.

25

 Aug 07, 2015 at 07:26 AM curious Says:

Reply to #21  
Mark Levin Says:

These faltschaphony chasidish ovsvorfs wouldn't be able to become educated if their lives depended on it.

Look at their holy rebbe and spokesperson lipa. He's in college for three years and still speaks English sounding like he has marbles in his mouth.

Lipa grew up with a minimal English education. Surely you don't believe language is the only or even the main aspect of a college education. Lipa is very highly regarded by his peers. He is knowledgable and sociable.
For you to claim that chasidm are uneducable is foolish.

26

 Aug 07, 2015 at 09:12 AM Realist77 Says:

Not giving these children ( boys or girls) a proper secular education keeps them trapped in their communities. It handicaps many people from ever leaving the community, or obtaining jobs. Many lack basic math or English skills, and many can barely communicate well with others.To those that say many men with no education have become very successful, that is not the norm.

27

 Aug 07, 2015 at 11:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
curious Says:

There is no longer a BOE. It is the DOE as it is city runned and not an elected board.

" It is the DOE as it is city runned and not an elected board."

What does city "runned" mean? You must be a product of a yeshiva education. The word is "run."

28

 Aug 07, 2015 at 11:22 AM #11 Says:

Reply to #23  
Anonymous Says:

Errr - sorry, but the GIRLS' schools in Israel do have strong secular education. I know, I'm Menahelet in one of them. The reason: so we can give the girls the skills they need to go and work for the next 40 years until they drop dead from working so hard & raising a bunch of kids at the same time, while their husbands sit & learn full time. I could say a lot more but I need my job too (although MY husband actually works & learns before & after his job.) I don't think it is right, however, to maaser on these US Yeshivos. Instead, parents should either demand some secular education or send their boys to a private class. Gut Shabbos.

My appolgy for not being more clear. I think the issue at hand is the boys schools not girls schools. And that is what I am refering to when I say we have the change the system in EY as well. As you so eloquently mention the system puts extra strain on the girls too. They end up ahving to work and raise children while the boys are undeucated. That just stregnthens my argument.
Re masser on yeshivas. I agree its not the bset approach. But there really ais not better approach. Parents who speak up will be ostricized from the community. They will be accused of not following das torah. This why unfortantely only those already ostracized and have nothing to fear can speak up.

29

 Aug 07, 2015 at 11:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
favish Says:

#3 are you for real?! No kitchens in Square or other yeshivahs!? What hateful liar you are! I go plenty times to these Yeshivahs, including Square town, and can have a delicious hot breakfast,lunch, supper anytime, even i'm not from them. Since i'm more in Square, I can say, they not only serve delicious hot food but high class(for Yeshivah standard) breaded cutlet , stuffed chicken with beautiful side dishes AND PLENTIFUL. Your comments and others like you for hate of ehrlicher shomrei torah has no bounds

Why are you getting meals at a New Square yeshiva if you don't live there? Is the state paying for your meals? You say you can get a hot breakfast, lunch or dinner? Are tax payers paying your restaurant bills also?

30

 Aug 07, 2015 at 11:59 AM diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

These people are Self-Hating Jews. I am proof that the system works. I went to a good yeshiva and dropped out of high school secular studies. I then continued my learning Torah, with good solid (limudei-kodesh only) yeshivas, and learned in kollel several years.

I am now 40+, and have a solid career, without any degrees and I am earning a whopping 250k+/yr.

No, I don't own a business, and I am in the financial services/banking industry.

I can sincerely attest to the fact, that my gemara skills along with the great values, which I received in yeshiva along with the values that I have inherited from my ancestors, is what got me to where I am today. I am b'h better off, than most of my secular or jewish colleagues, which have attended, some of the world-renowned universities.

31

 Aug 07, 2015 at 12:29 PM jason Says:

I am not a big fan of the government interveining in private schools. There has to be limits to what the government can mandate. On the other hand the truth of the matter is the lack of a secular education is a serious handicap in todays world. If the intention is to build a community with no job outlook for its members where the population will eventually be destitute and dependant on government handouts then by all means the Yeshivas should continue down the path they are on. Good luck with that.

32

 Aug 07, 2015 at 01:11 PM OyGevald Says:

There is nothing to worry about.
NY Schools take mandated tests for certain grade levels and exceed the public school achievement tests overall.
While perhaps these bitter ex-hassids learnt in a school that had no UPPER education, the NYC dropout rate surpasses the Orthodox Jewish schools by Miles.
P.S. Even the current Satmar Robbed went to "English" in Satmar. A story was published not long ago by the Principal of the English department describing Reb Arraleh as a student under his care.

33

 Aug 07, 2015 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

These people are Self-Hating Jews. I am proof that the system works. I went to a good yeshiva and dropped out of high school secular studies. I then continued my learning Torah, with good solid (limudei-kodesh only) yeshivas, and learned in kollel several years.

I am now 40+, and have a solid career, without any degrees and I am earning a whopping 250k+/yr.

No, I don't own a business, and I am in the financial services/banking industry.

I can sincerely attest to the fact, that my gemara skills along with the great values, which I received in yeshiva along with the values that I have inherited from my ancestors, is what got me to where I am today. I am b'h better off, than most of my secular or jewish colleagues, which have attended, some of the world-renowned universities.

"I am now 40+, and have a solid career, without any degrees and I am earning a whopping 250k+/yr.

No, I don't own a business, and I am in the financial services/banking industry. "

I'm in the same industry for 40 years. Without a degree, you go nowhere. You are day dreaming. But that's ok because we are all entitled to delusions.

34

 Aug 07, 2015 at 04:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

These people are Self-Hating Jews. I am proof that the system works. I went to a good yeshiva and dropped out of high school secular studies. I then continued my learning Torah, with good solid (limudei-kodesh only) yeshivas, and learned in kollel several years.

I am now 40+, and have a solid career, without any degrees and I am earning a whopping 250k+/yr.

No, I don't own a business, and I am in the financial services/banking industry.

I can sincerely attest to the fact, that my gemara skills along with the great values, which I received in yeshiva along with the values that I have inherited from my ancestors, is what got me to where I am today. I am b'h better off, than most of my secular or jewish colleagues, which have attended, some of the world-renowned universities.

With all due respect I would guess you are an insuarnce salesman or something similar. Yes it is possible to be a sucessful salesman with no degree. I work in Finance. And I can tell you for a fact that no company would look at you without a college degree and proper education. Thats a fact. Just go to any sdecent company's website and browse thru the jobs section. Look at the requirements. There is usually no way around the degree thing. Even if your uncle is the CEO. They won't look at you without a degree, A sales jb with commisons are another story. But no salaried job will even dream of hiring you. As far as gemara skills helping you. Its very minimal. The chinese are very smart too. don't kid yourself.

35

 Aug 07, 2015 at 04:22 PM favish Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

Why are you getting meals at a New Square yeshiva if you don't live there? Is the state paying for your meals? You say you can get a hot breakfast, lunch or dinner? Are tax payers paying your restaurant bills also?

#29 Yes, when i happen to be there or in any other yeshivah and i'm hungry . I just eat. Which is totally irrelevant to our discussion regarding your hate of shomrei torah and making up fairy tales about them. When I eat I have in mind that's it from 'benevolent taxpayers like 'you' who don't mind if a nebech human eats from 'your taxpayers money'. Where is your 'ahavas yisroel l' you proclaim so much when it comes to oivrei torah . which you don't apply to shomrei torah?

36

 Aug 07, 2015 at 04:28 PM favish Says:

Reply to #26  
Realist77 Says:

Not giving these children ( boys or girls) a proper secular education keeps them trapped in their communities. It handicaps many people from ever leaving the community, or obtaining jobs. Many lack basic math or English skills, and many can barely communicate well with others.To those that say many men with no education have become very successful, that is not the norm.

#26 Yes , we are trapped in our communities aka shomrei torah, unlike you who is not 'trapped'. 'Choris al halichos' gemorrah: 'al tickrah choris ale chayrus...we are free, you are trapped in you materlistic tayvous...

37

 Aug 07, 2015 at 05:15 PM Abba_S Says:

I sent my sons to YTV & Mir which I think are yeshivish and as far as I know they both got a good secular education. The parent choose the yeshiva and so know what type of yeshiva they are sending them to. There are many choices and each year students change from one yeshiva to another. I think who ever reported the yeshivas are Misors and will pay for it in the next world

38

 Aug 07, 2015 at 11:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
favish Says:

#29 Yes, when i happen to be there or in any other yeshivah and i'm hungry . I just eat. Which is totally irrelevant to our discussion regarding your hate of shomrei torah and making up fairy tales about them. When I eat I have in mind that's it from 'benevolent taxpayers like 'you' who don't mind if a nebech human eats from 'your taxpayers money'. Where is your 'ahavas yisroel l' you proclaim so much when it comes to oivrei torah . which you don't apply to shomrei torah?

So you're a schnorer and go to yeshiva to get a hot meal. Get a job so tax payers aren't burdened.

39

 Aug 09, 2015 at 04:52 AM Abba_S Says:

38
A persons ability to eat at a soup kitchen is an entitlement, likewise, welfare and other social benefits are too. While I agree that a person should not rely on the public for support he has the right s to these benefits. Just like it's an obligation on the father to teach his son .a trade and how to swim so too is it an obligation to give the child a basic secular education so that they will be able to get a job.

40

 Aug 09, 2015 at 07:29 PM diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

With all due respect I would guess you are an insuarnce salesman or something similar. Yes it is possible to be a sucessful salesman with no degree. I work in Finance. And I can tell you for a fact that no company would look at you without a college degree and proper education. Thats a fact. Just go to any sdecent company's website and browse thru the jobs section. Look at the requirements. There is usually no way around the degree thing. Even if your uncle is the CEO. They won't look at you without a degree, A sales jb with commisons are another story. But no salaried job will even dream of hiring you. As far as gemara skills helping you. Its very minimal. The chinese are very smart too. don't kid yourself.

Well you are wrong I will tell you my story which I think is doable. I started out as an insurance agent where I got licensed for insurance as well as the basic starters series FINRA-NASD Licenses. Aftet two years, I got sickof sales as I am not a Entrep. and got myself a starting clerical job at a broker. Bez"h I moved my way up.the ladder quickly gaining expertise in regulatory compliance with a meager equivalent to a bachelors degree I received in yeshiva. I am b"h making a nice living working over the years at various financial instotutions. Remember everything is in the ribono shel olam's hands.

41

 Aug 10, 2015 at 12:51 PM favish Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

So you're a schnorer and go to yeshiva to get a hot meal. Get a job so tax payers aren't burdened.

#38 So what I stated in #14 your agreeing to , because you didn't refute me, So all your 'intelligence' can do is worry about taxpayers money,, which you couldn't care less, and me being shnorrer which doesn't bother me in the least bit

42

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