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London - Man Pleads Not Guilty in Child Assault, Judge Permits Him to Attend Synagogue |
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Oct 11, 2008 at 10:29 PM
News Source: The JC
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M. R., 24, from Golders Green, North-West London, appeared at Snaresbrook Crown Court and will face trial in January 2009, accused of four offences.
He has been charged with raping a child under the age of 13, sexual activity with a child, and two charges of causing or inciting a child to engage in sexual activity. Mr R. denies all four charges. The victim cannot be named because of his age.
Mr R.'s barrister, Gary Grant, persuaded Judge David Radford to change his bail conditions which prohibited him from entering any synagogue. Judge Radford agreed that he can now attend the Biala Synagogue in Clapton as long as he is with one of eight chaperones, all rabbis and members of the Charedi community.
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Read Comments (46) — Post Yours »
1
Oct 11, 2008 at 11:37 PM Anonymous Says:
Oy, here we go again! By this time tomorrow VIN will have 80 comments on this story - 20 will blame this on rabbonim, 10 will defend the accused because they know his family and he would never do such a thing, 20 will call for his execution before trial and 30 will claim these things never happen in the frum world and this is all the work of an angry wife trying to hurt her husband so she will get full custody of the children.
2
Oct 11, 2008 at 11:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Oy, here we go again! By this time tomorrow VIN will have 80 comments on this story - 20 will blame this on rabbonim, 10 will defend the accused because they know his family and he would never do such a thing, 20 will call for his execution before trial and 30 will claim these things never happen in the frum world and this is all the work of an angry wife trying to hurt her husband so she will get full custody of the children. ”
WELL SAID. WILL ANYONE JUST SAY HE IS GUILTY AND NEEDS HELP???
3
Oct 12, 2008 at 12:14 AM Anonymous Says:
Not likely. Right now, the 'velt' is a working up a healthy backlash to the decades of ignored abuse of our children. Someone is going to end up paying the price for all those skeletons in the closet and the corpses under the rug. Let us pray that those paying the price for yesterday's cries will be, if not yesterday's criminals, than at least today's criminals.
4
Oct 12, 2008 at 12:20 AM Anonymous Says:
Can you imagine how many out there we dont know about?! For many people its very hard to admit that a frum yid is guilty. Keep on sticking your head in the sand, by the time you pick up your head you will just find the situation worse, not better.
5
Oct 12, 2008 at 12:19 AM Anonymous Says:
If he IS Guilty - he does NOT need Help, He is beyond help, and needs to be removed from society permanently.
6
Oct 12, 2008 at 12:33 AM Anonymous Says:
If he is guilty, he doesn't need help. He needs to be punished to the point that it becomes an object lesson to anyone else contemplating similar activity. A beating to within an inch of his life by an incensed mob would be too little for him.
7
Oct 12, 2008 at 12:38 AM Anonymous Says:
As a past victim and an activist in support of efforts to bring molesters to justice, I can tell you from actual experience in this field that the ultra-orthodox communities have hundreds of molesters within the community. We have in the past encouraged such behavior through failing to prosecute any of these perverts and are now dealing with second and THIRD generation victims who have turned to abuse themselves! Now we are stuck with having to make a decision of outing molesters or protecting these poor sould who were taught early on during childhood to peddle this sick trade. "You reap what you sow". It's a passuk in tehillim sung prior to Bircas Hamozon".
Bear in mind that a recent study of cases in Israel indicates the greatest prevelance of such activity in Eretz Yisroel is in Bnei Brak!
8
Oct 12, 2008 at 12:37 AM Chicago Says:
“ WELL SAID. WILL ANYONE JUST SAY HE IS GUILTY AND NEEDS HELP??? ”
You are exactly right! But don't forget the accusations of "You are probably this guy's brother!"
9
Oct 12, 2008 at 12:51 AM Chicago Says:
“ You are exactly right! But don't forget the accusations of "You are probably this guy's brother!" ”
Oops, I meant to quote the first comment. Sorry.
10
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:13 AM Anonymous Says:
"Oy, here we go again! By this time tomorrow VIN will have 80 comments on this story - 20 will blame this on rabbonim, 10 will defend the accused because they know his family and he would never do such a thing, 20 will call for his execution before trial and 30 will claim these things never happen in the frum world and this is all the work of an angry wife trying to hurt her husband so she will get full custody of the children."
man, you just took the fun out of this whole thing- sometimes I read the posts and sit there laughing wondering how people can deny the problems going on in our community today
11
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:04 AM Anonymous Says:
So the rabbis in London's better boro of Golders Green are also protecting and supporting the local freindly molester? Makes you wonder whar rabbis around the world are suffering from. Skeletons in the closet perhaps? We need a house cleaning and fast!
12
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:34 AM Anonymous Says:
This simply makes my blood boil, London has so many child abusers, the proportions of this problem within frum communities is just so outrageous, the majority of frum youth who have fallen off the derech have done so as a result of child abuse of one form or another - I know about london specifically even thought i did not live there, because i was molested by 2 different guys from London
13
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:46 AM Anonymous Says:
I give up. We deserve what we will get for ignoring this problem and responding like this. WHO WILL SEE TO IT THAT THE VICTIMS WILL CONTINUE TO GO TO SHUL AND GET THE CLOSURE AND TREATMENT THEY SO BADLY NEED? ארץ אל תכסו דמם
14
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:55 AM frum yid Says:
this doesn't sound like a bad compromise.
The presumption of innocense is there
The authorities are not taking a chance, so they have mandatory chaperones.
The guy is allowed to daven in shul.
Don't get me wrong, if he is convicted, then let him burn begashmiyus uberuchniyus. But until that point, everyone gets a fair deal.
15
Oct 12, 2008 at 02:29 AM why all the maclokes Says:
if he is innocent or guilty is his buissness why is there a need to disscuss such a sore topic for yidden may hashem watch over us
16
Oct 12, 2008 at 05:32 AM Anonymous Says:
What bothers me no end is that NO ONE ASKS WHAT IN OUR WAY OF LIVING -SUPPOSEDLY KOSHER AND WHOLESOME- CAUSES THIS ABUNDANCE OF TROUBLE. Maybe we are doing something totally wrong???
17
Oct 12, 2008 at 05:05 AM Meier Says:
Why only a chaperone when he goes to shul. He should have chaperone 24/7 so that he is never alone with children. This should not be a problem if he is innocent.
18
Oct 12, 2008 at 03:29 AM Anonymous Says:
“ if he is innocent or guilty is his buissness why is there a need to disscuss such a sore topic for yidden may hashem watch over us ”
because too many people like you exist, that prefer the safety of brushing it under the rug over saving the souls of the children who are abused, even if the child does not show any short term negative symptoms, most often at some point in the future the children who are abused will show (often hidden from family and friends) signs of the trauma they expirianced, including relationship problems, depression, sexual addictions, confused orientation, distrust, paranoia, anxiety, panic, emotional issues, mental health issues, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and in some cases may become an abuser who goes on to destroy many lives in this spreading disease that is eating up our pure innocent youth..
WAKE UP PEOPLE!
19
Oct 12, 2008 at 03:22 AM Ben Waxman Says:
Another example of our warped sense of priorities. A man selling treif chickens has to run for his life and this guy has people walking him around town. Did he Maftir Yonah?
20
Oct 12, 2008 at 02:36 AM Anonymous Says:
no # 15, it is the victims business. and our business to circle the wagons and support the VICTIM not the rapist.
21
Oct 12, 2008 at 06:16 AM Anonymous Says:
the man who sold trief chickens has remarried and is contentedly walking around in a new nieghborhood, attending the daf yomi shiur, allowed in by someone who says the shiur is "open to anyone who wishes to learn".
22
Oct 12, 2008 at 08:10 AM Ben Waxman Says:
after running for his life, after his community openly and strongly expressed its outrage.
23
Oct 12, 2008 at 08:44 AM Avraham Abba Says:
“ As a past victim and an activist in support of efforts to bring molesters to justice, I can tell you from actual experience in this field that the ultra-orthodox communities have hundreds of molesters within the community. We have in the past encouraged such behavior through failing to prosecute any of these perverts and are now dealing with second and THIRD generation victims who have turned to abuse themselves! Now we are stuck with having to make a decision of outing molesters or protecting these poor sould who were taught early on during childhood to peddle this sick trade. "You reap what you sow". It's a passuk in tehillim sung prior to Bircas Hamozon".
Bear in mind that a recent study of cases in Israel indicates the greatest prevelance of such activity in Eretz Yisroel is in Bnei Brak! ”
If the "survey" is true, it would seem to suggest that there is too much repression and too much separation between boys and girls, and far too little education about the need to come forth and complain. The word, "complain" must be taught to replace the word, "snitch." We must never become like the Moslems who refuse to even allow questioning of any "law."
24
Oct 12, 2008 at 11:02 AM murray Says:
I agree with Avraham Abba. If the boys can never even think about or look at the girls, isn't this (l'havdil) similar to the Catholic priests who can't marry, i assume then that they have no normal contact with girls, and then go "crazy", and think that they can go after the boys?
25
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I agree with Avraham Abba. If the boys can never even think about or look at the girls, isn't this (l'havdil) similar to the Catholic priests who can't marry, i assume then that they have no normal contact with girls, and then go "crazy", and think that they can go after the boys? ”
If you have this or any other question about se-ual abuse, and you care about jewish kids, educate yourself, buy a book on ebay or amazon and educate yourself on the how and why of sexual abuse, and then you can educate others, and you can lend your book or books to your friends, and they can educate others, and people will begin to understand that this has nothing to do with the Torah of life, which connects us to G-d almighty, but rather with the protection of those that Abuse our children and allow this disease to keep spreading.
26
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:21 PM Yankel Says:
I see all the lowlifes coming out and discussing this issue... soon they'l say it's the fault chas v'sholom of the Torah Hakdoshe... because boys and girls are seperated That's what's wrong when laymen discuss these issues in public..
27
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What bothers me no end is that NO ONE ASKS WHAT IN OUR WAY OF LIVING -SUPPOSEDLY KOSHER AND WHOLESOME- CAUSES THIS ABUNDANCE OF TROUBLE. Maybe we are doing something totally wrong??? ”
It has nothing to do with our way of living (living according to Torah laws and Derech Eretz) or with the healthy segregation we have between women and men, this problems comes from the many years of shoving abuse under the rug, which gave freedom too and allowed the number of serial molestors and victims to grow to a ridiculous amount, which in turn created alot of Sexualized children who will then go on to sexualize and experiment with other children, which will create additional molesters and additional victims which creates more sexualized children experimenting with other children etc etc etc, you get the picture now?
PEOPLE WAKE UP
28
Oct 12, 2008 at 01:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I see all the lowlifes coming out and discussing this issue... soon they'l say it's the fault chas v'sholom of the Torah Hakdoshe... because boys and girls are seperated That's what's wrong when laymen discuss these issues in public.. ”
I was abused, and i know of many others who were abused by frum people, the type of people that are medakdek with minhugim and chassidus believe it or not.
The abuse epidemic has nothing to do with the laws of tsnius and tahara, it has to do with a generation that is too weak to address the problem and allow countless kids to be sacrificed instead. it is todays avodah zorah
29
Oct 12, 2008 at 05:11 PM Milhouse Says:
Why did VIN decide this story needed a picture of a generic shul? Is there any reader who doesn't know what a shul looks like? Why not a picture of Big Ben, in case we don't know what London looks like? Or of a lavatory -- not the one where the incident is alleged to have happened, but just a stock photo of a lavatory, in case we've never seen one before?
30
Oct 12, 2008 at 05:46 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Can you imagine how many out there we dont know about?! For many people its very hard to admit that a frum yid is guilty. Keep on sticking your head in the sand, by the time you pick up your head you will just find the situation worse, not better. ”
It has nothing to do with Religion or the level of Religious devotion (frumkeit)! Those people who are affected, or afflicted by that problem must be seeking help! Whether it's Medical/Psychologic or Social! It's quite certain that [most] people (except for the obviously evil ones who deserve to be imprisoned and the key thrown away) who suffer with this affliction H"Y, are not bad. Indeed, are intrinsically good people except for this life-impacting problem. The origins of which must found on an individual basis. Because they are [basically] good people they should realize that their top priority is to seek help!
31
Oct 12, 2008 at 06:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why did VIN decide this story needed a picture of a generic shul? Is there any reader who doesn't know what a shul looks like? Why not a picture of Big Ben, in case we don't know what London looks like? Or of a lavatory -- not the one where the incident is alleged to have happened, but just a stock photo of a lavatory, in case we've never seen one before? ”
are you that bored?
32
Oct 12, 2008 at 06:31 PM Shmilfke Says:
Hey Anonymous, I completely disagree with you.
And all other anonymouses, don't be scared to write your name. If you really stand by your opinion, you will put your name by it.
33
Oct 12, 2008 at 06:23 PM Anonymous Says:
London has probably never had any heimishe yidden in court on abuse charges. Its surely only other abusers who protect him. Anyone else would, as Meier says, make sure there was a 24/7 chaperone.
34
Oct 12, 2008 at 06:58 PM Anonymous Says:
There was a chader Rebbi in London 30+ years ago, who would chain smoke in class, Slap over the face with power just for not looking in, or resting on your hand, that would leave a hot ear & headache the rest of the lesson. If you then lost the place he would call you out slap one side of the face while pinching the other, and alot an assignment.
If you then didn't know you were called to the front with your Gemorah, & made say while he spanked your bottom standing next t him, when you were crying too much to say anymore he would elevate you by the scruff of your trousers to over the two knee possition & continue his spanking as the lesson went on. Later on [a little after I was in his classhe got more vile & would take a ruler out of his desk & use the side of it on the behind].
After the spanking he would slap on the face & send back to the seat, & heaven help you if the kid tried to put his face on his arms to finish crying, which at times could take an hour plus until the next round. When parents complained he would say that is my method, and if you don't like it lump it, there many other chadorim around.
He got away with it, but we are going around with fear & sado or masochistic tendencies till this day, we were ruined & he is free.
I haven't mentioned his name, but I guess maybe some other poster will.
I hate to say I feel that OTK was & is a sexual problem which he got off with, and we are the carnage. Just watching it was very punishing & damaging to innocent young kids. If that is what the rebbi does one may question is that not an example of how we should behave?
He has not been brought to justice yet, nor been singeled out in the bloggs I guess every dog has it's day.
35
Oct 12, 2008 at 08:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ There was a chader Rebbi in London 30+ years ago, who would chain smoke in class, Slap over the face with power just for not looking in, or resting on your hand, that would leave a hot ear & headache the rest of the lesson. If you then lost the place he would call you out slap one side of the face while pinching the other, and alot an assignment.
If you then didn't know you were called to the front with your Gemorah, & made say while he spanked your bottom standing next t him, when you were crying too much to say anymore he would elevate you by the scruff of your trousers to over the two knee possition & continue his spanking as the lesson went on. Later on [a little after I was in his classhe got more vile & would take a ruler out of his desk & use the side of it on the behind].
After the spanking he would slap on the face & send back to the seat, & heaven help you if the kid tried to put his face on his arms to finish crying, which at times could take an hour plus until the next round. When parents complained he would say that is my method, and if you don't like it lump it, there many other chadorim around.
He got away with it, but we are going around with fear & sado or masochistic tendencies till this day, we were ruined & he is free.
I haven't mentioned his name, but I guess maybe some other poster will.
I hate to say I feel that OTK was & is a sexual problem which he got off with, and we are the carnage. Just watching it was very punishing & damaging to innocent young kids. If that is what the rebbi does one may question is that not an example of how we should behave?
He has not been brought to justice yet, nor been singeled out in the bloggs I guess every dog has it's day. ”
your teacher is a very sick puppy who will have his day of cheshbon for hurting children in the manner and with the intentions that he did, if he does not get punished in this world it will have to be when he meets his maker, otk in hell is alot worse then otk in this world
36
Oct 12, 2008 at 08:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Hey Anonymous, I completely disagree with you.
And all other anonymouses, don't be scared to write your name. If you really stand by your opinion, you will put your name by it.
”
Is that why your proudly put your name Shmilfke??
37
Oct 12, 2008 at 10:03 PM Polyglot Says:
“ As a past victim and an activist in support of efforts to bring molesters to justice, I can tell you from actual experience in this field that the ultra-orthodox communities have hundreds of molesters within the community. We have in the past encouraged such behavior through failing to prosecute any of these perverts and are now dealing with second and THIRD generation victims who have turned to abuse themselves! Now we are stuck with having to make a decision of outing molesters or protecting these poor sould who were taught early on during childhood to peddle this sick trade. "You reap what you sow". It's a passuk in tehillim sung prior to Bircas Hamozon".
Bear in mind that a recent study of cases in Israel indicates the greatest prevelance of such activity in Eretz Yisroel is in Bnei Brak! ”
The pasuk in tehillim you are reffering to says something else entirely: it says "those who sow in tears, will reap in laughter"!
38
Oct 12, 2008 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Oy, here we go again! By this time tomorrow VIN will have 80 comments on this story - 20 will blame this on rabbonim, 10 will defend the accused because they know his family and he would never do such a thing, 20 will call for his execution before trial and 30 will claim these things never happen in the frum world and this is all the work of an angry wife trying to hurt her husband so she will get full custody of the children. ”
But you made sure to be the first of the 80.
39
Oct 12, 2008 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ But you made sure to be the first of the 80. ”
I was just trying to save the othe other 79 people the trouble............
40
Oct 12, 2008 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:
We seem to be hearing more and more of these cases recently.
So, on a serious note, has anyone seen any reliable studies that address the two following issues: 1) Is pedophilia more common today than 50 or 100 years ago and or are we just more aware of the problem 2) What are the real statistics about pedophilia and child abuse in the Orthodox world and how do we compare to the outside world?
(Please save us all the trouble of reading posts blaming the problem on too little exposure to members of the opposite sex, too much exposure to members of the opposite sex, corrupt values of general society or anything else of this nature. I'm looking for FACTS, not opinions.)
41
Oct 13, 2008 at 12:23 AM Anonymous Says:
“ We seem to be hearing more and more of these cases recently.
So, on a serious note, has anyone seen any reliable studies that address the two following issues: 1) Is pedophilia more common today than 50 or 100 years ago and or are we just more aware of the problem 2) What are the real statistics about pedophilia and child abuse in the Orthodox world and how do we compare to the outside world?
(Please save us all the trouble of reading posts blaming the problem on too little exposure to members of the opposite sex, too much exposure to members of the opposite sex, corrupt values of general society or anything else of this nature. I'm looking for FACTS, not opinions.) ”
1: some of those that are abused become abusers, and the internet has fed into sexual addictions and pedophilia, so the logical conclusion would be that pedophilia is more common today then 50 or 100 years ago even if it was a very big problem 100 years ago too.
2: There are no real statistics for child abuse in the orthodox world because very very few of those abused are willing to speak up, only some will speak up in private therapy sessions where they are secure and confidential, and almost no one speaks up publicly or in surveys etc.
However, if you speak to anyone that is involved in providing therapy or counseling to the Orthodox world, they will tell you that there are thousands of confirmed cases within New York state alone based on information & data sharing between professionals, (many thousands more worldwide) and that there are way more that are not confirmed because only small amount of those abused will seek help, go to therapy, and are able to get over their shame and guilt to speak about their experience.
The rest suffer through bad relationships, self destructive problems, sexual problems, family problems, chinuch problems, mental health problems, orientation problems, and the list goes on and on, often the survivor does not make the connection between the problems they face today and the abuse they went through.
42
Oct 13, 2008 at 03:34 AM Chicago Says:
“ There was a chader Rebbi in London 30+ years ago, who would chain smoke in class, Slap over the face with power just for not looking in, or resting on your hand, that would leave a hot ear & headache the rest of the lesson. If you then lost the place he would call you out slap one side of the face while pinching the other, and alot an assignment.
If you then didn't know you were called to the front with your Gemorah, & made say while he spanked your bottom standing next t him, when you were crying too much to say anymore he would elevate you by the scruff of your trousers to over the two knee possition & continue his spanking as the lesson went on. Later on [a little after I was in his classhe got more vile & would take a ruler out of his desk & use the side of it on the behind].
After the spanking he would slap on the face & send back to the seat, & heaven help you if the kid tried to put his face on his arms to finish crying, which at times could take an hour plus until the next round. When parents complained he would say that is my method, and if you don't like it lump it, there many other chadorim around.
He got away with it, but we are going around with fear & sado or masochistic tendencies till this day, we were ruined & he is free.
I haven't mentioned his name, but I guess maybe some other poster will.
I hate to say I feel that OTK was & is a sexual problem which he got off with, and we are the carnage. Just watching it was very punishing & damaging to innocent young kids. If that is what the rebbi does one may question is that not an example of how we should behave?
He has not been brought to justice yet, nor been singeled out in the bloggs I guess every dog has it's day. ”
I am so sorry you went throught that kind of abuse. This sicko of a teacher will have to account for the damage he inflicted one day.
You are right, people like that get a sado-thrill from it, on top of the pedophelia. I hope you are able to recover from it.
43
Oct 13, 2008 at 03:32 AM Chicago Says:
“ Why did VIN decide this story needed a picture of a generic shul? Is there any reader who doesn't know what a shul looks like? Why not a picture of Big Ben, in case we don't know what London looks like? Or of a lavatory -- not the one where the incident is alleged to have happened, but just a stock photo of a lavatory, in case we've never seen one before? ”
I have to say, I was thinking the exact same thing!
44
Oct 13, 2008 at 12:31 AM Mr Anon Says:
Readers: do you remember how just a month ago the comments were full of people who were all for protecting abusers and shoving this major issue under the carpet as usual?
Have you noticed how they have slowly gone away as the readers and public have become more educated on the subject? and become more aware of the true reality and long term effects this illness is causing?
It seems that those with skeletons in their closet that were hoping this issue would go away are beginning to realize that justice will be served sooner or later, and trying to manipulate the public into abandoning this issue just is not going to work.
45
Oct 13, 2008 at 11:22 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Readers: do you remember how just a month ago the comments were full of people who were all for protecting abusers and shoving this major issue under the carpet as usual?
Have you noticed how they have slowly gone away as the readers and public have become more educated on the subject? and become more aware of the true reality and long term effects this illness is causing?
It seems that those with skeletons in their closet that were hoping this issue would go away are beginning to realize that justice will be served sooner or later, and trying to manipulate the public into abandoning this issue just is not going to work. ”
Many of those posting comments protecting the molestoers were probably molestors themselves. Once this became obvious, many of them were undoubtedly afraid to post anything that might be traced back to them if their computers ever get checked as part of investigations into their online activities.
46
Oct 15, 2008 at 10:33 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Another example of our warped sense of priorities. A man selling treif chickens has to run for his life and this guy has people walking him around town. Did he Maftir Yonah? ”
He [probably] didn't! but you meant it from a different angle! (i.e. his "Chashivus") If he did, however, he would read the message (in the "Text" of the Kriah) that is "Custom Made" for him!!!