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Brooklyn, NY - Opponents Of Kaporos Ask Manhattan Judge To Halt The Slaughter

Published on: August 25, 2015 05:12 PM
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FILE - In this picture taken Wednesday, Oct. 5, 2011, ultra-Orthodox Jewish men hold chicken after it was slaughtered in Bnei Brak, Israel. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)FILE - In this picture taken Wednesday, Oct. 5, 2011, ultra-Orthodox Jewish men hold chicken after it was slaughtered in Bnei Brak, Israel. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

Brooklyn, NY - Lawyers for a group opposing the Jewish ritual of Kaporos were in a Manhattan court today, asking that a Superior Court judge put an end to the annual event not only because of they find it offensive, but due to the fact that it violates some 15 laws.

NYDAILYNEWS.com (http://nydn.us/1UbEFwG) reports that speaking on behalf of her clients who have brought suits against several rabbis and Yeshivas in Borough Park and Crown Heights over the makeshift Kaporos slaughterhouses, Attorney Nora Marino told Justice Debra James that her clients “are confronted with this horror every year, the stench, the litter, the filth, the flood, the feces, the feathers…”

Marino argued that Brooklyn residents face a potential health crisis of “epidemic proportions” if the 10-day event leading up to Yom Kippur is not nixed, while adding that event “violates 15 laws” health and otherwise.

David Jaroslwaski, who’s representing one the rabbis sued, Rabbi Shea Hecht, rejected Marino’s assertions, stating, “You don’t get sick from inhaling chickens.”

“This is make-believe mass hysteria about something that doesn’t exist,” Jaroslawski said.

James said she’ll rule Sept. 10.


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Read Comments (38)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Aug 25, 2015 at 05:27 PM abuezri Says:

It is Jaroslawicz, not Jaroslwaski

2

 Aug 25, 2015 at 06:45 PM Nycnyc Says:

All this is happening because 250 thousand chareidim are not registered to vote. So you have liberal anti religious politicians and judges flooding the system. If we all voted we could boot out every liberal in Brooklyn as well as upstate and control our political system.

3

 Aug 25, 2015 at 08:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Its time to end this annual public health hazard and tzar baalei chayim. Many rabbunim have paskind that there is NO chiyuv to use a live chicken for shluggin kaporos and this is simply a carryover from the alte heim. Once can be yotzeh the mitzvah using silver coins or even using a live fish. It would be a big Kiddush hashem to once and for all end the gross smells, dirt, chicken waste and the suffering of the birds themselves.

5

 Aug 25, 2015 at 08:56 PM 5TResident Says:

I have no problem with shlugging kaporos with chickens (I use money myself, always have - my zaidy in Boro Park did too) but the neglectful, careless way that these grubyans do it ruins it for everyone else.

6

 Aug 25, 2015 at 08:59 PM DRSLZ Says:

She should be asked to adjourn the case until Sept 23rd.

7

 Aug 25, 2015 at 09:54 PM favish Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Its time to end this annual public health hazard and tzar baalei chayim. Many rabbunim have paskind that there is NO chiyuv to use a live chicken for shluggin kaporos and this is simply a carryover from the alte heim. Once can be yotzeh the mitzvah using silver coins or even using a live fish. It would be a big Kiddush hashem to once and for all end the gross smells, dirt, chicken waste and the suffering of the birds themselves.

#3 from your posts all over plus this , I think it would be a big kiddish hashem, according to you, if we abandon the torah and join the gentiles . What can be nicer that that we show them tolerance inclusiveness etc ec

8

 Aug 25, 2015 at 10:29 PM Lomaz Says:

why are you verbally abusive? Calm down. It is Elul. Don't get so worked up. Not good for your physical or spiritual health.

We need achdut now....more than ever.

9

 Aug 25, 2015 at 10:44 PM Wise-Guy Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Its time to end this annual public health hazard and tzar baalei chayim. Many rabbunim have paskind that there is NO chiyuv to use a live chicken for shluggin kaporos and this is simply a carryover from the alte heim. Once can be yotzeh the mitzvah using silver coins or even using a live fish. It would be a big Kiddush hashem to once and for all end the gross smells, dirt, chicken waste and the suffering of the birds themselves.

Hey Genius!
Why do you think they did it with chickens in the "Alte Heim"?!
Do you think they had a shortage of fish or coins?!

p.s.
I too think that much improvement is needed with the current system.
But what you are recommending is basically called "throwing out the baby with the bathwater"....

10

 Aug 25, 2015 at 10:53 PM huvsa Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Its time to end this annual public health hazard and tzar baalei chayim. Many rabbunim have paskind that there is NO chiyuv to use a live chicken for shluggin kaporos and this is simply a carryover from the alte heim. Once can be yotzeh the mitzvah using silver coins or even using a live fish. It would be a big Kiddush hashem to once and for all end the gross smells, dirt, chicken waste and the suffering of the birds themselves.

I have *always* used money for Kaporos; I think that the conditions the chickens are stored under is not a kiddush Hashem (rather, it's the opposite), and I never understood why Jews, who are Rachamim Bnei Rachamim do not all see this as tzaar baalei chayim. (The Shechitah itself is not a problem.) We are allowed to donate money to tzedakah instead, and that is what my family does.

11

 Aug 25, 2015 at 11:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Wise-Guy Says:

Hey Genius!
Why do you think they did it with chickens in the "Alte Heim"?!
Do you think they had a shortage of fish or coins?!

p.s.
I too think that much improvement is needed with the current system.
But what you are recommending is basically called "throwing out the baby with the bathwater"....

Cause in the alter heim, either u had chickens in your backyard, and u did the kaparah before u went to the shochet, or even in the city u purchased a chicken and took it to the shochet, but today the mass importing of chickens to congested areas like BP or Williamsburg etc, is horrible, I personally stopped using chickens years ago when I took my family to the backyard of a well known mosad,and I got sick from the horrible smell, didn't feel right doing a ruchnius deed in such an environment

12

 Aug 26, 2015 at 12:43 AM Tzaar Baal Chayim Says:

Many of the greatest Rabbanim throughout history strongly opposed kapparos. Rabbi Solomon ben Abraham Aderet considered kapparos with chickens a primitive goyish superstition. The Ramban and Rav Joseph Caro agreed with him. Rav Yosef Caro called kapparos with chickens "a foolish custom" that Jews should avoid. They felt that it was a pagan custom that mistakenly made its way into Jewish practice, perhaps because when Jews lived among pagans this rite seemed like a korban (sacrifice). The main deterrent to this barbaric custom in our days should be the tremendous chilul Hashem we make when goyim see how we inflict such terrible cruelty on helpless animals. The chickens are Hashem's creatures. How can we, rachmanim bnei rachmanim, watch these creatures suffer while they are kept tightly squashed in cages without food or water for days? How can any thinking and feeling Torah Jew believe that he can get mechila for his sins by torturing animals? How can anyone think that this is what Hashem wants from us?

13

 Aug 26, 2015 at 01:32 AM Greener Says:

Reply to #2  
Nycnyc Says:

All this is happening because 250 thousand chareidim are not registered to vote. So you have liberal anti religious politicians and judges flooding the system. If we all voted we could boot out every liberal in Brooklyn as well as upstate and control our political system.

Swinging a chicken around your head is darchei ha'emori.

14

 Aug 26, 2015 at 01:37 AM ayoyo Says:

If it is so important let each family buy chickens,take them home and shlug kaporus with them and take the chicken to the shoichet individually .There wont be the circus that goes on every year ,when the crates of live chickens are stacked up all over

15

 Aug 26, 2015 at 05:02 AM Respect Says:

Rabosai, if you want to use chickens, take the time and do it right. Drive out to a farm or an area zoned for these animals and their slaughter. It isn't that far from NYC.

I would be upset if my block was turned into a slaughterhouse.

16

 Aug 26, 2015 at 08:15 AM Canadian Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

Cause in the alter heim, either u had chickens in your backyard, and u did the kaparah before u went to the shochet, or even in the city u purchased a chicken and took it to the shochet, but today the mass importing of chickens to congested areas like BP or Williamsburg etc, is horrible, I personally stopped using chickens years ago when I took my family to the backyard of a well known mosad,and I got sick from the horrible smell, didn't feel right doing a ruchnius deed in such an environment

#9
We don't stop Minhagim (if it is your Minhag) or a the like based on solely how "we feel".

17

 Aug 26, 2015 at 09:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Respect Says:

Rabosai, if you want to use chickens, take the time and do it right. Drive out to a farm or an area zoned for these animals and their slaughter. It isn't that far from NYC.

I would be upset if my block was turned into a slaughterhouse.

I agree with you, there is a shul in midwood that does kaporos...the stench is incredible, I don't know how the people on the block tolerate it.

18

 Aug 26, 2015 at 01:25 PM Yossi Says:

Reply to #7  
favish Says:

#3 from your posts all over plus this , I think it would be a big kiddish hashem, according to you, if we abandon the torah and join the gentiles . What can be nicer that that we show them tolerance inclusiveness etc ec

Where in the Torah is there anything about swinging a chicken around one's head before Yom Kippur? How did this practice, which is rejected by the Bais Yosef and the Rashba (just to name 2) become a mitzvah? Why would giving it up bring us to join the non-jews?

19

 Aug 26, 2015 at 04:35 PM favish Says:

Reply to #13  
Greener Says:

Swinging a chicken around your head is darchei ha'emori.

#13 Why don't you quote the passage in Shulchen Urech?

20

 Aug 26, 2015 at 04:38 PM favish Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Its time to end this annual public health hazard and tzar baalei chayim. Many rabbunim have paskind that there is NO chiyuv to use a live chicken for shluggin kaporos and this is simply a carryover from the alte heim. Once can be yotzeh the mitzvah using silver coins or even using a live fish. It would be a big Kiddush hashem to once and for all end the gross smells, dirt, chicken waste and the suffering of the birds themselves.

#3 Please enumerate at least 10 of these 'numerous rabbonim' so we can verify you claim.

21

 Aug 27, 2015 at 12:04 AM Gedolim Vs. Kapparos Says:

Reply to #20  
favish Says:

#3 Please enumerate at least 10 of these 'numerous rabbonim' so we can verify you claim.

QUESTION: Please enumerate rabbonim who were against kapparos:
ANSWER: Rav Shlomo ben Avraham Aderet considered kapparos a primitive goyish superstition. The Ramban and Rav Yosef Caro agreed with him. Rav Yosef Caro called kapparos with chickens "a foolish pagan custom" that Jews should avoid. The Rashba was against kapparos with chickens. The Chayei Adam, Kaf HaChaim, Aruch HaShulchan and the Mishanah Brurah discussed the halachic issurim involved in using live fowl for this custom. They also hold that it is oiver the issur of "tzaar baalei chayim" (causing cruelty to animals). Those who wish to fulfill this custom can do so fully and indeed in a far more halachically acceptable manner by using money as a substitute.

22

 Aug 27, 2015 at 03:50 PM ber Says:

Reply to #21  
Gedolim Vs. Kapparos Says:

QUESTION: Please enumerate rabbonim who were against kapparos:
ANSWER: Rav Shlomo ben Avraham Aderet considered kapparos a primitive goyish superstition. The Ramban and Rav Yosef Caro agreed with him. Rav Yosef Caro called kapparos with chickens "a foolish pagan custom" that Jews should avoid. The Rashba was against kapparos with chickens. The Chayei Adam, Kaf HaChaim, Aruch HaShulchan and the Mishanah Brurah discussed the halachic issurim involved in using live fowl for this custom. They also hold that it is oiver the issur of "tzaar baalei chayim" (causing cruelty to animals). Those who wish to fulfill this custom can do so fully and indeed in a far more halachically acceptable manner by using money as a substitute.

Why don't you mention the Rama , if you mentinon Bais Yosef .By the way where are the words 'foolish' mentioned in Bais Yosef? You added on your own with sly intention

23

 Aug 27, 2015 at 04:28 PM ber Says:

Reply to #21  
Gedolim Vs. Kapparos Says:

QUESTION: Please enumerate rabbonim who were against kapparos:
ANSWER: Rav Shlomo ben Avraham Aderet considered kapparos a primitive goyish superstition. The Ramban and Rav Yosef Caro agreed with him. Rav Yosef Caro called kapparos with chickens "a foolish pagan custom" that Jews should avoid. The Rashba was against kapparos with chickens. The Chayei Adam, Kaf HaChaim, Aruch HaShulchan and the Mishanah Brurah discussed the halachic issurim involved in using live fowl for this custom. They also hold that it is oiver the issur of "tzaar baalei chayim" (causing cruelty to animals). Those who wish to fulfill this custom can do so fully and indeed in a far more halachically acceptable manner by using money as a substitute.

#21 In your modern eyes....but if you'd known the reason , kavonah, why we take a live animal you wouldn't say this

24

 Aug 27, 2015 at 03:46 PM favish Says:

Reply to #21  
Gedolim Vs. Kapparos Says:

QUESTION: Please enumerate rabbonim who were against kapparos:
ANSWER: Rav Shlomo ben Avraham Aderet considered kapparos a primitive goyish superstition. The Ramban and Rav Yosef Caro agreed with him. Rav Yosef Caro called kapparos with chickens "a foolish pagan custom" that Jews should avoid. The Rashba was against kapparos with chickens. The Chayei Adam, Kaf HaChaim, Aruch HaShulchan and the Mishanah Brurah discussed the halachic issurim involved in using live fowl for this custom. They also hold that it is oiver the issur of "tzaar baalei chayim" (causing cruelty to animals). Those who wish to fulfill this custom can do so fully and indeed in a far more halachically acceptable manner by using money as a substitute.

# 21 You are very dishonest in your statement!
1) When you just mention the few who are against it you should also enumerate who did it, and there are much more who did

2) We are discussing 'cruelty'....which they don't even mention...the Mishne Berireh does not say anything about 'halachic issurim about this custom' which you try to imply that the atzem ' kapporis with chicken is assur '. You are misleading. He mentions about the side issues like the shochtim being tired , to much chickens for one shochet etc. theres no clue there that he didn't practice it. And so with the rest. Now if your not being honest with the debate we're not going to bother
3)Rama
Mishne berurae (not as you say ..see#2)
Mateh Efraim
Shulchen Hurav (tanye)
Chasam Soifer and all gedolim past and present

In any case , your not interested in cruelty...it just what ehrlicher yidden do plus influence by the PETA type people....Can you describe yourself...We are chassidish litvish We have feeling your MO or...

In any case we, chassidim, Lutvacks etc are g

25

 Aug 27, 2015 at 08:58 PM favish Says:

Reply to #21  
Gedolim Vs. Kapparos Says:

QUESTION: Please enumerate rabbonim who were against kapparos:
ANSWER: Rav Shlomo ben Avraham Aderet considered kapparos a primitive goyish superstition. The Ramban and Rav Yosef Caro agreed with him. Rav Yosef Caro called kapparos with chickens "a foolish pagan custom" that Jews should avoid. The Rashba was against kapparos with chickens. The Chayei Adam, Kaf HaChaim, Aruch HaShulchan and the Mishanah Brurah discussed the halachic issurim involved in using live fowl for this custom. They also hold that it is oiver the issur of "tzaar baalei chayim" (causing cruelty to animals). Those who wish to fulfill this custom can do so fully and indeed in a far more halachically acceptable manner by using money as a substitute.

#21 You are such a l..., non of them mention tzar balai chaim .There are only 2 reasons mentioned ....rashba, ramban because 'darchai emori'. All others who you qoute DO NOT SAY ITS ASSUR as you misleadingly state. The reason becasue the shochet is overtired, etc etc so they RECOMMED, if the situation requires then use coins!
Please don't be such a kanoia for tzal balei chaim misleadingly. What about the 'azuzeil' Yom Kipper..dalive down the mountain..?? So don't be more holy than the riboni hel oilom

26

 Aug 28, 2015 at 12:41 PM favish Says:

Reply to #25  
favish Says:

#21 You are such a l..., non of them mention tzar balai chaim .There are only 2 reasons mentioned ....rashba, ramban because 'darchai emori'. All others who you qoute DO NOT SAY ITS ASSUR as you misleadingly state. The reason becasue the shochet is overtired, etc etc so they RECOMMED, if the situation requires then use coins!
Please don't be such a kanoia for tzal balei chaim misleadingly. What about the 'azuzeil' Yom Kipper..dalive down the mountain..?? So don't be more holy than the riboni hel oilom

Continued #21....also the Bais Yosef the reason he says beferish 'mipnei darchai Emori'. I'm waiting to hear where Bais Yosef says its 'FOOLISH pagan custom'!(and this statement is your giveaway what you are and whats behind your kanoes (see #24 last paragraph)

So #21, all those you mention ,Chaya Adom, Mishne Brureh, Kaf Hachaim, Urech Hashulchen DO NOT MENTION CRULETY TO ANIMALS. They all mention the reason...see #24 ....#2..
So please refer exacly where it is what you state( #21 3rd line from bottom) otherwise we have proven how at what lenths you will go with dishonest debate because of your hate for ehrlicher yidden minhagim

27

 Aug 28, 2015 at 04:08 PM favish Says:

Reply to #12  
Tzaar Baal Chayim Says:

Many of the greatest Rabbanim throughout history strongly opposed kapparos. Rabbi Solomon ben Abraham Aderet considered kapparos with chickens a primitive goyish superstition. The Ramban and Rav Joseph Caro agreed with him. Rav Yosef Caro called kapparos with chickens "a foolish custom" that Jews should avoid. They felt that it was a pagan custom that mistakenly made its way into Jewish practice, perhaps because when Jews lived among pagans this rite seemed like a korban (sacrifice). The main deterrent to this barbaric custom in our days should be the tremendous chilul Hashem we make when goyim see how we inflict such terrible cruelty on helpless animals. The chickens are Hashem's creatures. How can we, rachmanim bnei rachmanim, watch these creatures suffer while they are kept tightly squashed in cages without food or water for days? How can any thinking and feeling Torah Jew believe that he can get mechila for his sins by torturing animals? How can anyone think that this is what Hashem wants from us?

#12 All we mentioned regarding #21 goes to you too and even more....This 'pagan'....'superstitious' 'barbaric' custom was observed and being observed by the the holiest of the each generation. Im wondering what other taryag (not that this is) you chucked because it doesn't agree with your modern enlightened etc etc view. Lets mention one. The goat that was sent to 'azuzeil' on Yom kipper (this is also one reason why we take a live animal lezaycher , Mr Ignoramus),and rolled ALIVE down the mountain, oy! haw barbaric!....now you probably will take the HOLY ONE to task (if you believe in diety and the divinity of the torah)

28

 Aug 29, 2015 at 11:14 PM favish Says:

Reply to #18  
Yossi Says:

Where in the Torah is there anything about swinging a chicken around one's head before Yom Kippur? How did this practice, which is rejected by the Bais Yosef and the Rashba (just to name 2) become a mitzvah? Why would giving it up bring us to join the non-jews?

#18 "Just to name 2...' because there are not more than 2,3. Overwhelming majority did use chickens see 24, 26 , 27

30

 Aug 30, 2015 at 02:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
favish Says:

#21 You are such a l..., non of them mention tzar balai chaim .There are only 2 reasons mentioned ....rashba, ramban because 'darchai emori'. All others who you qoute DO NOT SAY ITS ASSUR as you misleadingly state. The reason becasue the shochet is overtired, etc etc so they RECOMMED, if the situation requires then use coins!
Please don't be such a kanoia for tzal balei chaim misleadingly. What about the 'azuzeil' Yom Kipper..dalive down the mountain..?? So don't be more holy than the riboni hel oilom

Favish, you continue to not only be an am oretz, but an embarrassment to the entire Jewish community.

In my 60+ years, I have never once seen kapporos done without tzar baal hachaim, let alone simple respect for the animals.

And you apparently have no recollection of the chicken shortage two or three years ago in Brooklyn because literally THOUSANDS of chickens caged for kapores were squeezed into tiny, overcrowded cages and denied water until they all died.

Please explain the compassion and respect shown to those animals?

to add insult to injury, all the complaints were about the shortage of chickens this caused, not the incredible, staggering hypocrisy of the mistreatment of these that literally killed them all.animals

31

 Aug 30, 2015 at 03:37 PM favish Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

Favish, you continue to not only be an am oretz, but an embarrassment to the entire Jewish community.

In my 60+ years, I have never once seen kapporos done without tzar baal hachaim, let alone simple respect for the animals.

And you apparently have no recollection of the chicken shortage two or three years ago in Brooklyn because literally THOUSANDS of chickens caged for kapores were squeezed into tiny, overcrowded cages and denied water until they all died.

Please explain the compassion and respect shown to those animals?

to add insult to injury, all the complaints were about the shortage of chickens this caused, not the incredible, staggering hypocrisy of the mistreatment of these that literally killed them all.animals

#30 You did not counter my prooves that you are dishonest in your debate, What your private feelings of this ritual is irrelevent to us,,,,so please stick the topic.
Again, non of the Rishonim Achronin you misleadingly state ...see my posts.
Your opinion of me is also irrelevant...

We will continue to observe this holy minhuk no matter what 'enlightened, assimilated 'Jews" feel or think

32

 Aug 30, 2015 at 03:41 PM favish Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

Favish, you continue to not only be an am oretz, but an embarrassment to the entire Jewish community.

In my 60+ years, I have never once seen kapporos done without tzar baal hachaim, let alone simple respect for the animals.

And you apparently have no recollection of the chicken shortage two or three years ago in Brooklyn because literally THOUSANDS of chickens caged for kapores were squeezed into tiny, overcrowded cages and denied water until they all died.

Please explain the compassion and respect shown to those animals?

to add insult to injury, all the complaints were about the shortage of chickens this caused, not the incredible, staggering hypocrisy of the mistreatment of these that literally killed them all.animals

#30 .....B'kiso. b'koso, U'BEKASO....the truth hurts, heh?

33

 Aug 30, 2015 at 05:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
favish Says:

#30 You did not counter my prooves that you are dishonest in your debate, What your private feelings of this ritual is irrelevent to us,,,,so please stick the topic.
Again, non of the Rishonim Achronin you misleadingly state ...see my posts.
Your opinion of me is also irrelevant...

We will continue to observe this holy minhuk no matter what 'enlightened, assimilated 'Jews" feel or think

favish, this was my first post, so I don't know who your illiterate comment was intended for. BTW, "prooves" is not a word. try "proofs", which word you obviously don't understand the meaning of.

Also, don't use "we" as if you are speaking for all Jews, which you are not in any way doing:

and my opinion of you is not irrelevant, nor is it an opinion, it is a fact. and "holy minhuk"? seriously? is there ANY language you can speak or write well in?

34

 Aug 30, 2015 at 05:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
favish Says:

#30 .....B'kiso. b'koso, U'BEKASO....the truth hurts, heh?

what a stupid response, which in no way has anything to do with the comment you are responding to.

You are simply an idiot. go get a job or a hobby instead of sitting at a computer posting narishkeit of "proofing" what an am oretz you are.

35

 Aug 30, 2015 at 06:44 PM favish Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

favish, this was my first post, so I don't know who your illiterate comment was intended for. BTW, "prooves" is not a word. try "proofs", which word you obviously don't understand the meaning of.

Also, don't use "we" as if you are speaking for all Jews, which you are not in any way doing:

and my opinion of you is not irrelevant, nor is it an opinion, it is a fact. and "holy minhuk"? seriously? is there ANY language you can speak or write well in?

#33 We are not here for a spellin' B. 'We' refers to all ehrlicher temimesdiker yiden who are not influenced by Jews like you. And how do WE know, besides other give away in you statements dat you are dat kind of 'Jew' ....shomrei torah, ehrlicher primitive illiterate yidden couldn't care less about ones spellin'.

36

 Aug 30, 2015 at 06:49 PM favish Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

favish, this was my first post, so I don't know who your illiterate comment was intended for. BTW, "prooves" is not a word. try "proofs", which word you obviously don't understand the meaning of.

Also, don't use "we" as if you are speaking for all Jews, which you are not in any way doing:

and my opinion of you is not irrelevant, nor is it an opinion, it is a fact. and "holy minhuk"? seriously? is there ANY language you can speak or write well in?

#33 n #34 Ah see vat ah insinuated in #32 is gettin' more n more serious. N since you mention ur 60+(age only) ah wont take a chance wid ur blood pressure . even though me am also 65+.Adious and ksiveh vechasime tova

37

 Aug 30, 2015 at 06:55 PM favish Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

favish, this was my first post, so I don't know who your illiterate comment was intended for. BTW, "prooves" is not a word. try "proofs", which word you obviously don't understand the meaning of.

Also, don't use "we" as if you are speaking for all Jews, which you are not in any way doing:

and my opinion of you is not irrelevant, nor is it an opinion, it is a fact. and "holy minhuk"? seriously? is there ANY language you can speak or write well in?

#33 Ahhhh, you still sidesteppin' de issues..sea #31.

38

 Aug 31, 2015 at 01:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
favish Says:

#33 n #34 Ah see vat ah insinuated in #32 is gettin' more n more serious. N since you mention ur 60+(age only) ah wont take a chance wid ur blood pressure . even though me am also 65+.Adious and ksiveh vechasime tova

don't know who you are, but there is something seriously wrong with you.

39

 Aug 31, 2015 at 02:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
favish Says:

# 21 You are very dishonest in your statement!
1) When you just mention the few who are against it you should also enumerate who did it, and there are much more who did

2) We are discussing 'cruelty'....which they don't even mention...the Mishne Berireh does not say anything about 'halachic issurim about this custom' which you try to imply that the atzem ' kapporis with chicken is assur '. You are misleading. He mentions about the side issues like the shochtim being tired , to much chickens for one shochet etc. theres no clue there that he didn't practice it. And so with the rest. Now if your not being honest with the debate we're not going to bother
3)Rama
Mishne berurae (not as you say ..see#2)
Mateh Efraim
Shulchen Hurav (tanye)
Chasam Soifer and all gedolim past and present

In any case , your not interested in cruelty...it just what ehrlicher yidden do plus influence by the PETA type people....Can you describe yourself...We are chassidish litvish We have feeling your MO or...

In any case we, chassidim, Lutvacks etc are g

idiot.

also, why do you say "we" when you mean "me"? You are not speaking on behalf of any group, and you certainly don't represent "we Yidden".

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 Aug 31, 2015 at 02:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
favish Says:

#33 n #34 Ah see vat ah insinuated in #32 is gettin' more n more serious. N since you mention ur 60+(age only) ah wont take a chance wid ur blood pressure . even though me am also 65+.Adious and ksiveh vechasime tova

favish, you seem to do a lot of posting. You must have a lot of spare time on your hands to write strange comments like this one.

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