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Brooklyn - Members Of Activist Group Shot Down By Court Take To Streets In Attempt To Halt Kaporos

Published on: September 19, 2015 10:43 PM
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A kapparos helper shows an obscene gesture to the anti-kapparos activistsA kapparos helper shows an obscene gesture to the anti-kapparos activists

Brooklyn, NY - On Thursday, members of the animal activist group—-whose challenge against the Jewish ritual of Kaporos was shot down on Monday by a Manhattan Supreme Court judge—-took to the streets of Brooklyn in an attempt to alter the tradition.

NYDAILYNEWS.com (http://nydn.us/1LCPFih) reports that still seething from Monday’s rejection from Supreme Court Justice Debra James, activists Rina Deych and Vanessa Dawson appeared onsite at a Borough Park Kaporos location with the intention of trying to persuade approaching Jews to simply donate money instead of participating in the ritual.

Armed with smartphone cameras and plenty of zeal, Deych and Dawson attempted to interrupt Kaporos proceedings until they apparently got too close and the encounter became confrontational—-resulting in a young Hasidic Kaporos worker issuing an obscene gesture to Deych’s camera.

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Deych called the gesture “a disturbing example of what is being taught to these innocent children.”

Deych said, “(Another) man tried to put a poor, tortured chicken on my head and two others cursed at me.”


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1

 Sep 19, 2015 at 10:51 PM SrulyC Says:

The activists should be arrested for harassment.

2

 Sep 19, 2015 at 10:52 PM neitraler Says:

It's a huge chillul Hashem,and I'm not condoning that woman at all she is confrontational but not insulting him personally. He on the other hand is making us look Very bad

4

 Sep 19, 2015 at 11:23 PM 5TResident Says:

They lost in court and are now Harrassing the victors. They are breaking the law. Period, end of story.

5

 Sep 19, 2015 at 11:40 PM brooklyn grandma Says:

If they come near me I will definitely call 911 and report them for harassment. Don't these people have jobs? Leidigeirs

6

 Sep 19, 2015 at 11:55 PM FinVeeNemtMenSeichel Says:

So 1 & 3 you have no problem with what this bucher did?

7

 Sep 19, 2015 at 11:55 PM Proud Says:

I for one am proud of what this kid did. He did the right thing.

We will never win a media battle with liberal nuts but this put her in her place..... Because I am sure she never used swear words in her life....

8

 Sep 19, 2015 at 11:59 PM yaakov doe Says:

What did she expect? A warm welcome? I can understand her not liking kapores with a chicken, but no one is forcing her to participate.

9

 Sep 20, 2015 at 12:24 AM Erving Says:

#6 no one is saying its okay to use swear words, butets not kid ourselves. If this was a non Jewish group that she was harassing, shed get a lot more than 2 or 3 obsence comments or gestures.

"A disturbing example of what is being tought to theses innocent children" YEAH RIGHT, I'm sure kids that attend public schools, and watch filthy movies and ingest media garbage all day, are MUCH more sheltered then the average chassidisheh kid......

10

 Sep 20, 2015 at 01:14 AM Open-Your-Eyes Says:

Lucky her I wasn't there... I would enjoy holding a chicken right above her head and not let go before it drops poop into her filthy eyes and then another portion of the same onto her camera!

11

 Sep 20, 2015 at 01:17 AM my2cence Says:

Agreed, she's done something illegal. But what that boy did, I'm speechless, shocked!

12

 Sep 20, 2015 at 01:42 AM Lodzker Says:

I think the best idea is to have someone dress like a Nazi and quietly stand with the anti kaparos protesters. then the protesters would not want to be seen standing with a nazi and theyd go away.

13

 Sep 20, 2015 at 01:57 AM Tzaar Baal Chayim Says:

I know Rena Deych personally. She is an outstanding, caring, sensitive, righteous and highly intelligent woman. She is not anti-religious. She is not against kapporos. She is against using chickens for kapporos because this causes terrible TZAAR BAAL CHAYIM. She is advocating for using money for kapporos instead of torturing animals. The chickens are confined to crates where they cannot move or breathe. They don't get food or water. They suffer terribly. It is hard to believe that Jews, who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim, don't have the heart to feel the suffering of these animals. Many gedolim throughout the centuries have been against kapparos with chickens and called it shtus and avoda zara. One of these was Rav Yosef Karo, the mechaber of the Shulchan Aruch. So instead of just following the hamon am, Yidden need think what they are doing. Will Hashem really forgive you for your aveiros if you stuff baalei chayim in a crate, starve them, leave them in the hot sun, and then slaughter them? Use money to kapparos. Give tzedaka. And don't cause tzaar baal chayim. I am sure this will put you in a better standing in Shamayim.

14

 Sep 20, 2015 at 02:44 AM Normal Says:

Nothing wrong with doing Kapporos on money. Wasn't the Rambam and R Karo against it saying it's a pagan custom? If you admit there is even a little bit of tzar for the chicken what is your justification in doing it?

15

 Sep 20, 2015 at 03:50 AM Anonymous Says:

Every kapara center where these liberal wackos come harassing Jews these facts should be posted large and clear:

According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day!
In the US there are over 1.5 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 3,000 abortions per day!

16

 Sep 20, 2015 at 06:15 AM Nycnyc Says:

Reply to #13  
Tzaar Baal Chayim Says:

I know Rena Deych personally. She is an outstanding, caring, sensitive, righteous and highly intelligent woman. She is not anti-religious. She is not against kapporos. She is against using chickens for kapporos because this causes terrible TZAAR BAAL CHAYIM. She is advocating for using money for kapporos instead of torturing animals. The chickens are confined to crates where they cannot move or breathe. They don't get food or water. They suffer terribly. It is hard to believe that Jews, who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim, don't have the heart to feel the suffering of these animals. Many gedolim throughout the centuries have been against kapparos with chickens and called it shtus and avoda zara. One of these was Rav Yosef Karo, the mechaber of the Shulchan Aruch. So instead of just following the hamon am, Yidden need think what they are doing. Will Hashem really forgive you for your aveiros if you stuff baalei chayim in a crate, starve them, leave them in the hot sun, and then slaughter them? Use money to kapparos. Give tzedaka. And don't cause tzaar baal chayim. I am sure this will put you in a better standing in Shamayim.

We Ashkenazim Jews don't paskin like rabbi Yosef karo. We follow the Remah. All chasidic leaders also support the kaporas with chickens. The shrieking anti chicken protesters are usually secular or at best the avi weiss open orthodox crowd. In fact this Saturday night on the Zev Brenner radio show there was this so called rabbi from the avi weiss group condemning the use of chickens. He admitted he was a vegetarian. He also was the one who came out as a so called rabbi supporting gay marriage last year. His mentor avi weiss also gives simcha to women. Their group uri latzedek was involved in destroying rubashkin as well. They join the left wing liberals in attacking chareidim way of life on any chance they get. We chareidim should start protests at their center in riverdale.

17

 Sep 20, 2015 at 09:26 AM enlightened-yid Says:

The righteous bochur is flipping a middle finger towards a woman while "sacrificing" chicken to Hashem. That should tell you everything about the state of Torah lifestyle in our time. Replace the bochur with a black kid flipping middle finger towards a woman,and everyone here will open their can of kosher racism. His yeshiva and family can a learn a lesson from the Amish community on how to teach proper behavior to children.

If takes goyim and secular Jews to remind frum Jews yearly that cruelty to animals is against halacha, then you know your Torah education is failing. Half of these chicken die from cruel conditions before they're even slaughtered.

18

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:12 AM fat36 Says:

There is no in between with those guys when they go all out they go all out I'm talking about the boy flipping the bird the fact that he did that gives legitimacy to the lady. I hope it doesn't make front page in some news paper

19

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:28 AM Just Wondering... Says:

Reply to #7  
Proud Says:

I for one am proud of what this kid did. He did the right thing.

We will never win a media battle with liberal nuts but this put her in her place..... Because I am sure she never used swear words in her life....

I agree with you.

First they come ossur Kapporas then Milah will follow, followed by Shabbos.

We need to stand up and fight for our Religious Freedoms. I could only imagine if this was a Muslim organization using chickens for their rituals this would get no press.

I for one don't use chickens, but I like that my brethren have the option to use chickens if they so please.

20

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:29 AM Wackos Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Every kapara center where these liberal wackos come harassing Jews these facts should be posted large and clear:

According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day!
In the US there are over 1.5 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 3,000 abortions per day!

I am wondering what abortion has to do with kapparos. This article is about kapparos and tzaar baal chayim, it is not about abortion. Why do you want to post something about abortion at kapparos centers? You are assuming that these "liberal wackos" are for abortion. Did you speak to them? Did you find out? It so happens I know Rina Deych and she is Not a liberal wacko and she is NOT for abortion. She is AGAINST TZAAR BAAL CHAYIM. If you write shtuyos and don't make any sense, how do you expect anyone to respect your views?

21

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:36 AM We Ashkenazim Says:

Reply to #16  
Nycnyc Says:

We Ashkenazim Jews don't paskin like rabbi Yosef karo. We follow the Remah. All chasidic leaders also support the kaporas with chickens. The shrieking anti chicken protesters are usually secular or at best the avi weiss open orthodox crowd. In fact this Saturday night on the Zev Brenner radio show there was this so called rabbi from the avi weiss group condemning the use of chickens. He admitted he was a vegetarian. He also was the one who came out as a so called rabbi supporting gay marriage last year. His mentor avi weiss also gives simcha to women. Their group uri latzedek was involved in destroying rubashkin as well. They join the left wing liberals in attacking chareidim way of life on any chance they get. We chareidim should start protests at their center in riverdale.

It is not true that all rabbanim support kaporos with chickens. More and more mainstream rabbanim here and in Eretz Yisroel are expressing their concerns about the tzaar baal chayim. They are mainstream rabbanim, not people from the Avi Weiss group. They are not attacking the chareidi way of life. They are trying to stop the needless torture of animals. Being careful about the mitzvah of Tzaar Baalei Chayim is SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHAREIDI WAY OF LIFE. How can Torah Jews be so cruel to animals and think this is what Hashem wants? If the Rambam and Rav Yosef Karo said not to do it, doesn't their view deserve serious consideration and respect? I have no idea why you brought in gay marriage. Try to focus on the issue : Tzaar Baalei Chayim.

22

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:41 AM here is an idea Says:

They need to make these events in closed private areas where photography is illegal , this way these PETA liberals won't be allowed in.

23

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:57 AM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Every kapara center where these liberal wackos come harassing Jews these facts should be posted large and clear:

According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day!
In the US there are over 1.5 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 3,000 abortions per day!

and over 95% of those abortions are performed when the baby is a clump of cells, usually no larger than a grape with no human shape, no ability to survive on its own.

24

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:59 AM Nycnyc Says:

Reply to #21  
We Ashkenazim Says:

It is not true that all rabbanim support kaporos with chickens. More and more mainstream rabbanim here and in Eretz Yisroel are expressing their concerns about the tzaar baal chayim. They are mainstream rabbanim, not people from the Avi Weiss group. They are not attacking the chareidi way of life. They are trying to stop the needless torture of animals. Being careful about the mitzvah of Tzaar Baalei Chayim is SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHAREIDI WAY OF LIFE. How can Torah Jews be so cruel to animals and think this is what Hashem wants? If the Rambam and Rav Yosef Karo said not to do it, doesn't their view deserve serious consideration and respect? I have no idea why you brought in gay marriage. Try to focus on the issue : Tzaar Baalei Chayim.

All the protesters that come out each year be it in crown heights or flatbush against chickens are pro abortion and pro gay. This is a fact. Even their so called open orthodox rabbi on Zev Brenner radio supports gay marriage. This is all part of the open orthodox avi weiss gang. They want to look good in the eyes of the liberal goyim. Every year they come quacking against kaporas. They are traitors to Judaism.

25

 Sep 20, 2015 at 11:01 AM circle Says:

Every year at this time people get all concerned about animal treatment. This is because all year the only exposure most people have to animals is either between buns or with mustard and ketchup. This time of year they actually see live chickens and they go nuts.
They really believe that back on the farm the chickens are living in the Hilton.

26

 Sep 20, 2015 at 11:20 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Wackos Says:

I am wondering what abortion has to do with kapparos. This article is about kapparos and tzaar baal chayim, it is not about abortion. Why do you want to post something about abortion at kapparos centers? You are assuming that these "liberal wackos" are for abortion. Did you speak to them? Did you find out? It so happens I know Rina Deych and she is Not a liberal wacko and she is NOT for abortion. She is AGAINST TZAAR BAAL CHAYIM. If you write shtuyos and don't make any sense, how do you expect anyone to respect your views?

Such a sign at kappara centers would be very appropriate but they should add:
Why don't we hear from you hypocrite wackos when millions of healthy babies are murdered every year?

27

 Sep 20, 2015 at 12:53 PM favish Says:

Reply to #11  
my2cence Says:

Agreed, she's done something illegal. But what that boy did, I'm speechless, shocked!

#11 Nebech, you should get shock treatment

28

 Sep 20, 2015 at 12:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
We Ashkenazim Says:

It is not true that all rabbanim support kaporos with chickens. More and more mainstream rabbanim here and in Eretz Yisroel are expressing their concerns about the tzaar baal chayim. They are mainstream rabbanim, not people from the Avi Weiss group. They are not attacking the chareidi way of life. They are trying to stop the needless torture of animals. Being careful about the mitzvah of Tzaar Baalei Chayim is SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHAREIDI WAY OF LIFE. How can Torah Jews be so cruel to animals and think this is what Hashem wants? If the Rambam and Rav Yosef Karo said not to do it, doesn't their view deserve serious consideration and respect? I have no idea why you brought in gay marriage. Try to focus on the issue : Tzaar Baalei Chayim.

You are a complete ignoramus.....overwhelming Rabbonim did and do it . Your overwhelming 'Rah-bonim are not for it as they are not for a lot of mitzvos of the taryag

29

 Sep 20, 2015 at 01:01 PM ber Says:

Reply to #17  
enlightened-yid Says:

The righteous bochur is flipping a middle finger towards a woman while "sacrificing" chicken to Hashem. That should tell you everything about the state of Torah lifestyle in our time. Replace the bochur with a black kid flipping middle finger towards a woman,and everyone here will open their can of kosher racism. His yeshiva and family can a learn a lesson from the Amish community on how to teach proper behavior to children.

If takes goyim and secular Jews to remind frum Jews yearly that cruelty to animals is against halacha, then you know your Torah education is failing. Half of these chicken die from cruel conditions before they're even slaughtered.

You endarkened yid (enlightened in you view) has already showed thruout your posts what you stand for... We have nothing to learn from goyim about morality or othe subjects...

30

 Sep 20, 2015 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Tzaar Baal Chayim Says:

I know Rena Deych personally. She is an outstanding, caring, sensitive, righteous and highly intelligent woman. She is not anti-religious. She is not against kapporos. She is against using chickens for kapporos because this causes terrible TZAAR BAAL CHAYIM. She is advocating for using money for kapporos instead of torturing animals. The chickens are confined to crates where they cannot move or breathe. They don't get food or water. They suffer terribly. It is hard to believe that Jews, who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim, don't have the heart to feel the suffering of these animals. Many gedolim throughout the centuries have been against kapparos with chickens and called it shtus and avoda zara. One of these was Rav Yosef Karo, the mechaber of the Shulchan Aruch. So instead of just following the hamon am, Yidden need think what they are doing. Will Hashem really forgive you for your aveiros if you stuff baalei chayim in a crate, starve them, leave them in the hot sun, and then slaughter them? Use money to kapparos. Give tzedaka. And don't cause tzaar baal chayim. I am sure this will put you in a better standing in Shamayim.

This subject was already covered in article few weeks back. see over there refutation for all your ignorant or misleading proofs against this holy minhug

31

 Sep 20, 2015 at 01:39 PM srrachel Says:

Reply to #13  
Tzaar Baal Chayim Says:

I know Rena Deych personally. She is an outstanding, caring, sensitive, righteous and highly intelligent woman. She is not anti-religious. She is not against kapporos. She is against using chickens for kapporos because this causes terrible TZAAR BAAL CHAYIM. She is advocating for using money for kapporos instead of torturing animals. The chickens are confined to crates where they cannot move or breathe. They don't get food or water. They suffer terribly. It is hard to believe that Jews, who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim, don't have the heart to feel the suffering of these animals. Many gedolim throughout the centuries have been against kapparos with chickens and called it shtus and avoda zara. One of these was Rav Yosef Karo, the mechaber of the Shulchan Aruch. So instead of just following the hamon am, Yidden need think what they are doing. Will Hashem really forgive you for your aveiros if you stuff baalei chayim in a crate, starve them, leave them in the hot sun, and then slaughter them? Use money to kapparos. Give tzedaka. And don't cause tzaar baal chayim. I am sure this will put you in a better standing in Shamayim.

Yes! Rena Deych is an outstanding, wonderful, caring woman. I know the Crown Heights community. Many are beautiful people sincere in their Torah observance except when it comes to Tzaar Baal Chaim. I have argued the case with a rabbi from the community that by performing kapporas with chickens, the Chasidim are committing the avera of cruelty to animals. I have never received a satisfactory answer to that argument and it is also the only time I have elicited anger and dismissal from the rabbi in response to my questions. His wife agreed with me but continues with the practice anyway. The community seems incapable of recognizing animal suffering and hence have no empathy. As an observant Jew and animal rights advocate, this issue pains me deeply. One of the holiest times of the year for a Jehas turned into a nightmare. The Chasidim who posted angry, nasty comments here should be ashamed. That approach is NOT sanctioned by Chassidus. At a time when you are instructed to elevate your consciousness, refine yourselves, and beseech Hashem to show you compassion, your behavior is not creating light and is not in keeping with proper teshvah - no matter how many chickens you slaughter!

32

 Sep 20, 2015 at 02:31 PM Shoiel Umeishiv Says:

Reply to #26  
anonymous Says:

Such a sign at kappara centers would be very appropriate but they should add:
Why don't we hear from you hypocrite wackos when millions of healthy babies are murdered every year?

. Did you ever learn how to deal with an issue intelligently? Instead of changing the topic to abortion, which has NOTHING to do with Kapparos, why don't you explain how you think it is acceptable to be oiver the Torah issur of Tzaar Baal Chayim when you do kapporos with chickens? That would be an INTELLIGENT answer. I'm waiting to hear your answer. .

33

 Sep 20, 2015 at 02:57 PM AuthenticSatmar Says:

Where is tzar baalei chayim an issue? These chickens are coming from farms where they are bred to be slaughtered, and are raised in cages. These chickens don't know of any other way.

34

 Sep 20, 2015 at 02:28 PM Fact and Fantasy Says:

Reply to #24  
Nycnyc Says:

All the protesters that come out each year be it in crown heights or flatbush against chickens are pro abortion and pro gay. This is a fact. Even their so called open orthodox rabbi on Zev Brenner radio supports gay marriage. This is all part of the open orthodox avi weiss gang. They want to look good in the eyes of the liberal goyim. Every year they come quacking against kaporas. They are traitors to Judaism.

You write that All the protestors who come out each year against kapparos are pro abortion and pro gay. THIS IS A FACT " Dear friend, when people have an intelligent discussion, they back up their assumptions with genuine hochachos, proofs. Can you imagine going to a beis din, giving your side of the story, and then telling the dayanim it is a FACT so they have to believe you? Any intelligent dayan will want to know: WHAT DO YOU BASE YOUR FACTS ON? So dear Chuchem, did you interview even ONE of the protestors to find out his/her views on abortion and gay marriage? If you did, please let us know what they said. That can be counted as a FACT. Right now,, Kapparos of chickens is MITZVA HA'BAAH B'AVEIRA. You do a mitzvah of Kapparos (it's not really even a mitzvah, just a custom) while being oiver the strict Torah prohibition DeOraisa of tzaar baal chayim. Is a mitzva ha'baah b'aveira considered a mitzva? considered acceptable?

35

 Sep 20, 2015 at 03:44 PM Hope & Pray Says:

Reply to #13  
Tzaar Baal Chayim Says:

I know Rena Deych personally. She is an outstanding, caring, sensitive, righteous and highly intelligent woman. She is not anti-religious. She is not against kapporos. She is against using chickens for kapporos because this causes terrible TZAAR BAAL CHAYIM. She is advocating for using money for kapporos instead of torturing animals. The chickens are confined to crates where they cannot move or breathe. They don't get food or water. They suffer terribly. It is hard to believe that Jews, who are rachmanim bnei rachmanim, don't have the heart to feel the suffering of these animals. Many gedolim throughout the centuries have been against kapparos with chickens and called it shtus and avoda zara. One of these was Rav Yosef Karo, the mechaber of the Shulchan Aruch. So instead of just following the hamon am, Yidden need think what they are doing. Will Hashem really forgive you for your aveiros if you stuff baalei chayim in a crate, starve them, leave them in the hot sun, and then slaughter them? Use money to kapparos. Give tzedaka. And don't cause tzaar baal chayim. I am sure this will put you in a better standing in Shamayim.

All I have to say is I hope you are a vegetarian. If you have any knowledge of the industry whether poultry or beef and your main concern is Tzar Baal Chaim then I would advise you that you should stick to fish even on Shabbos and Yom Tov (although that industry has its own issues).

This issue is worldwide, and doesn't depend on religion as the Christians and Muslims don't treat the animals any differently/better than we do. So I would advise you that if you are really Holier than Thou you should be refraining from Chicken and Beef.......Oh and eggs too.

G'Mar Chasima Tova

36

 Sep 20, 2015 at 04:10 PM Snagged Says:

Our holy tradition is to sacrifice children to Molech on erev Yom Kippur.

37

 Sep 20, 2015 at 04:17 PM favish Says:

Reply to #31  
srrachel Says:

Yes! Rena Deych is an outstanding, wonderful, caring woman. I know the Crown Heights community. Many are beautiful people sincere in their Torah observance except when it comes to Tzaar Baal Chaim. I have argued the case with a rabbi from the community that by performing kapporas with chickens, the Chasidim are committing the avera of cruelty to animals. I have never received a satisfactory answer to that argument and it is also the only time I have elicited anger and dismissal from the rabbi in response to my questions. His wife agreed with me but continues with the practice anyway. The community seems incapable of recognizing animal suffering and hence have no empathy. As an observant Jew and animal rights advocate, this issue pains me deeply. One of the holiest times of the year for a Jehas turned into a nightmare. The Chasidim who posted angry, nasty comments here should be ashamed. That approach is NOT sanctioned by Chassidus. At a time when you are instructed to elevate your consciousness, refine yourselves, and beseech Hashem to show you compassion, your behavior is not creating light and is not in keeping with proper teshvah - no matter how many chickens you slaughter!

#31 so you are holier the THE HOLY ONE who ordered the AZUZEIL to be thrown don the mountain alive. Once you identified yourself as
'Animal rights advocate ' we know what and who you represent and its not 'as an observant jew'

38

 Sep 20, 2015 at 04:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
anonymous Says:

Such a sign at kappara centers would be very appropriate but they should add:
Why don't we hear from you hypocrite wackos when millions of healthy babies are murdered every year?

....#26 also when live crabs are served at parties and weddings at certain nationality and the crabs are dipped alive in boiling oil or water before being served, these animal rachmonos groups wont dare go and demonstrate there because they'll end up in a cement block on the bottonm of the East River

39

 Sep 20, 2015 at 09:27 PM longislandvegans Says:

Reply to #1  
SrulyC Says:

The activists should be arrested for harassment.

Freedom of speech?

40

 Sep 20, 2015 at 09:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
5TResident Says:

They lost in court and are now Harrassing the victors. They are breaking the law. Period, end of story.

slavery was legal too at one time and so was gay marriage... Should be always use the law for a just cause? Whats right is whats right

41

 Sep 20, 2015 at 09:30 PM longislandvegans Says:

Reply to #5  
brooklyn grandma Says:

If they come near me I will definitely call 911 and report them for harassment. Don't these people have jobs? Leidigeirs

Yea you are holding the knife killing innocent sentient beings and you are going to call the cops on me?

42

 Sep 20, 2015 at 09:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Every kapara center where these liberal wackos come harassing Jews these facts should be posted large and clear:

According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day!
In the US there are over 1.5 MILLION murder of healthy unborn babies which corresponds to approximately 3,000 abortions per day!

what about the 300 billion animals killed every year so you have have fried chicken? Whats wrong is wrong

43

 Sep 20, 2015 at 09:40 PM anthony rigogliosi Says:

Reply to #25  
circle Says:

Every year at this time people get all concerned about animal treatment. This is because all year the only exposure most people have to animals is either between buns or with mustard and ketchup. This time of year they actually see live chickens and they go nuts.
They really believe that back on the farm the chickens are living in the Hilton.

i agree that you can not be 100 percent compassionate unless you are full 100% vegan other wise it all sounds hypocritical.

44

 Sep 20, 2015 at 10:56 PM AYONEMAN Says:

I challenge you all to follow the trucks as these 'private' kapores centers clean up ! ! Mosdos spend thousands to make sure that the shechted ones gets processed in a plant and the live left overs go back for normal use.

Now go follow the PRIVATE KAPORES CENTERS.
Then you will know why they know exactly which centers to picket, protest and to watch.

45

 Sep 21, 2015 at 12:26 AM To Yoneman Says:

Reply to #35  
Hope & Pray Says:

All I have to say is I hope you are a vegetarian. If you have any knowledge of the industry whether poultry or beef and your main concern is Tzar Baal Chaim then I would advise you that you should stick to fish even on Shabbos and Yom Tov (although that industry has its own issues).

This issue is worldwide, and doesn't depend on religion as the Christians and Muslims don't treat the animals any differently/better than we do. So I would advise you that if you are really Holier than Thou you should be refraining from Chicken and Beef.......Oh and eggs too.

G'Mar Chasima Tova

Thank you for your insightful comments. I do not eat chicken or beef. I eat fish and eggs from free range chickens. My close friend reads Perek Shira every day which she says sensitizes her to the specialness of every creature which Hashem created. She would like to put Perek Shira on the curriculum in every yeshiva so that children can grow up with a love and reverence for every creature. May we soon see the nevuah of Yeshaya come to pass: and a wolf will live peacefully with a lamb.. a world when no being will hurt any other being and where the world will be a much more sensitive and kinder place. Gmar chasima tova.

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 Sep 21, 2015 at 12:31 AM Complete Ignoramus Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

You are a complete ignoramus.....overwhelming Rabbonim did and do it . Your overwhelming 'Rah-bonim are not for it as they are not for a lot of mitzvos of the taryag

The Rambam and the Mechaber , Rav Yosef Karo, and other gedolom in the past were against Kapparos which they said was copying the avoda zara of the goyim. The mainstream rabbis who are against Kapparos today are someich on the psak and hashkafa of these great Rabbanim of the past.

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 Sep 21, 2015 at 02:01 AM MaryFinelli Says:

Have the people who do this learned nothing from history? With all the oppression and violence that has been inflicted on Jewish people one would hope that kindness and compassion towards others would be their overriding principle. That the infliction of terror and pain on our fellow sentient beings would be anathema to them, as it should be to all. To abuse these birds so, and then insult those who are trying to defend them, it is beyond sad to see. No genuinely benevolent spirit could possibly approve of it.

The Jewish people who oppose this cruelty are a great credit to their race and to humanity in general. They are demonstrating the essence of what religion should teach: Be kind to others and oppose cruelty. Stand up for the victims who cannot defend themselves. Love and protect our fellow sentient beings. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. They are showing the way of goodness. They have learned from the past and are working to make the world a better, truly civilized place. They should be praised and embraced. Most of all, they should be heeded. They are right.

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 Sep 21, 2015 at 07:30 AM Nycnyc Says:

Reply to #34  
Fact and Fantasy Says:

You write that All the protestors who come out each year against kapparos are pro abortion and pro gay. THIS IS A FACT " Dear friend, when people have an intelligent discussion, they back up their assumptions with genuine hochachos, proofs. Can you imagine going to a beis din, giving your side of the story, and then telling the dayanim it is a FACT so they have to believe you? Any intelligent dayan will want to know: WHAT DO YOU BASE YOUR FACTS ON? So dear Chuchem, did you interview even ONE of the protestors to find out his/her views on abortion and gay marriage? If you did, please let us know what they said. That can be counted as a FACT. Right now,, Kapparos of chickens is MITZVA HA'BAAH B'AVEIRA. You do a mitzvah of Kapparos (it's not really even a mitzvah, just a custom) while being oiver the strict Torah prohibition DeOraisa of tzaar baal chayim. Is a mitzva ha'baah b'aveira considered a mitzva? considered acceptable?

Yes I interviewed anti kaporo protesters the last three years. In flatbush on ave p and in crown heights on Kingston aves. All told me they support abortions and gay marriage. They are sick liberals full of hatred to authentic Judaism. Even the open orthodox crowd that supports these protests support gay marriage. One of the main trouble makers is this secular woman who is actually running this one woman show and give her home address in boro park on her web site end the chickens. She is the one who harassed the chicken center and is in the picture. The police should be sent to her home as a hate crime and lock her up for ten years.

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 Sep 21, 2015 at 09:38 AM Erving Says:

Dear (perhaps well meaning) protesters,

I don't know why I'm bothering, but I'm going to attempt to give you a short answer on why it's not tzar baalei chaim.

Imagine a high school basketball game where one of the parents is standing on the sidelines constantly screaming double dribble at the team opposing his childs team. The father clearly knows nothing about the game, but he IS passionate about it, and very well meaning. However people who do know the game would be trying to suppress laughter at his ignorance.

Watching people who know nothing about Jewish law stand on the sidelines screaming tzar baalei chaim is just as hilarious, and pointless. Jewish law is very complex, watching somebody who doesn't know anything about the practical application of the tzar baalei chaim law, trying to use it as an argument against people who DO know the true meaning is preposterous.

Here's the short version explanation, if you study the laws pertaining to all types of animal treatment, you will see a common denominator. The law of tzar baalei chaim only applies in instances where the action is not sanctioned by law or minhag. For example, all would agree that killing an animal is crueler than manhandling one. Yet the Torah still allows us to do that.
The minhag to use chickens for kapparos is sanctioned by law (based on the rule that we follow the majority opinion, and ones own competent and learned Orthodox Rabbi ) and therefore there is no tzar baalei chaim.

Any further discussion would need the protester too sit down in the synagogue and learn the halachik sugyos related to this discussion. Which would take years of background knowledge and understanding of basic Jewish law.

There, I tried, but I'm sure you'll still be out there protesting louder than ever. One can't argue reason with people following pure emotion.

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 Sep 21, 2015 at 12:15 PM Hope & Pray Says:

Reply to #45  
To Yoneman Says:

Thank you for your insightful comments. I do not eat chicken or beef. I eat fish and eggs from free range chickens. My close friend reads Perek Shira every day which she says sensitizes her to the specialness of every creature which Hashem created. She would like to put Perek Shira on the curriculum in every yeshiva so that children can grow up with a love and reverence for every creature. May we soon see the nevuah of Yeshaya come to pass: and a wolf will live peacefully with a lamb.. a world when no being will hurt any other being and where the world will be a much more sensitive and kinder place. Gmar chasima tova.

Sorry to burst your bubble but "Free-Range" is a myth.

"Free-range" evokes a positive image of chickens and turkeys living outdoors with plenty of fresh air, sunshine and open space to roam in.

Birds raised for meat may be sold as “free-range” if they have government certified access to the outdoors. The door may be open for only five minutes and the farm still qualifies as “free-range.” Apart from the “open door,” no other criteria such as environmental quality, number of birds, or space per bird, are included in the term “free-range.”

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