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Jerusalem - Meir Porush Testifies For Charedi Killer Father |
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Israel Valas
Porush, along with several other prominent figures in the ultra-Orthodox community, was called in as character witnessed for the defense, which is trying to convince the court to order a light sentence.
Valas, who was convicted of manslaughter in July, was arrested in April on 2006 on suspicion of abusing and subsequently killing his infant son. His arrest sparked mass protest by haredi youths, who rioted in the capital's streets, demanding his release.
The defense denied any wrongdoing on Valas' part, but according to doctors' testimony, the baby presented with severe signs cerebral edema, which could only have been caused by someone forcibly shaking him.
"The defendant is a good man, I can't say a bad word about him," said Porush, adding that he was "marked for great things" within the ultra-Orthodox community.
Porush told the court that he has been acquainted with Valas and his family for six years, and that Valas was one of the "finest yeshiva boys" he had ever encountered.
Another character witness for the defense was former MK and religious radio personality Israel Eichler. The latter testified he has been helping the family since the young patriarch's arrest, and warned that should he face prison time, it might "bring about the home's destruction and bring about a destruction of the Second Temple."
Other character witnesses included Menachem Porush, MK Porush's father who was a Knesset member for 35 years, and Rabbi Ben-Zion Gutfarb, who heads Valas' alma mater – the Matmidim Yeshiva.
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Read Comments (57) — Post Yours »
1
Oct 27, 2008 at 09:53 AM mechelpipik Says:
Well, look at the RABBI in Monsey who fooled all by selling treife meat and look at our TEACHERS who molest our kids and our LEADERS/RABBI'S who brush it under carpets. i'm not saying the father did a wrong but who knows, he could be the finest yet. . . . G-D KNOWS THE TRUTH. hopefully he's innocent and then G-D will surely not let him suffer.
2
Oct 27, 2008 at 09:51 AM Anonymous Says:
Why doesn't the evidence matter?
3
Oct 27, 2008 at 09:46 AM Anonymous Says:
who knows
4
Oct 27, 2008 at 09:56 AM miri Says:
Terrible story ,,Young fathers should get training on how to handle babies ..If a baby cries you cant shake the baby to death, thats what appaerntly happend here. sad sad story
5
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:
It seems that the judge overrode the evidence & forensic discoveries, on the basis of "a Chareidi is always wrong."
6
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:23 AM Anonymous Says:
Shame on you for writing such a headline!!! All people involved truly believe that he is completely innocent, NOT that they are protecting a frum "killer," chas v'chalila.
7
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:
I heard from a person who was very involved in the incident that when the child stopped breathing, the young father phoned Magen Dovid Adom and was instructed to shake the baby and then him on the back. And then, in the hospital, when he told the doctors what he had done, he was arrested.
8
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:02 AM Anonymous Says:
Why do Frum people ALWAYS defend "Frum" monsters? Would they do the same for a freier Yid? Even if they "know" him as well as they say they know this despicable creature? Just because he has the levush & shockels when he davens, does that make him innocent?
Where's the wife? Poor lady, losing her baby to her husband. Yeah, yeah, innocent till proven guilty, yada yada yada. SOMEBODY murdered this baby & the police don't just say Oh, Charedi Dad, he's our guy.
BTW, how old is Dad? 19?? Perhaps these kids are too immature to marry & be fathers & listen to babies cry. That's what babies do!!
9
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:01 AM Anonymous Says:
Nothing bad to say about someone convicted of murdering a child. with the guy's teeth marks in the child's neck as evidence?
Is it possible for him to exercise some humility and consider that he might not know this fellow as well as he thought he did?
10
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:34 AM MOM Says:
Anybody who believes the judge must be a child abuser himself. I dont believe this young man wanted to kill his baby, I dont know him but he seems like a frum nice young man. Even animals are born with the instinct to proetect their young.
Now to all posters who are always looking for the bad in jews (in all articles not only in this one) are you jewish?? Get a life. haven't you ever heard of dan zal lkaf zchus??? my first thoughts after reading this article was nebach for him and for his wife my heart goes out for this poor baby. By frum jews you hardly hear those horror child abuse stories, so now these zionists are excited to prove us that YES you also abuse your kids not only us...
11
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM a real Jewish & Frum mother Says:
Mom...what would you say if it was YOUR child/nephew, G-d forbid? He seems like a frum nice young man?
Glad you're not married into my family. You're as stupid as they make 'em.
Then again, maybe you're not real? Oh, by the way, the Monsey Rabbi who was raping his own daughter...that's a Zionist plot also?
12
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:41 AM Anonymous Says:
Pathethic. Think about the neshama of the baby ans the mother. A murderer is a murderer no matter how holy he thinks he is. HKB will be the judge. Babies dont just die Chas v' shalom. the medical evidence indicates there was something done - shaking or whatever. the baby was killed -
13
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:54 AM A Dad IYH One Day Says:
“ Terrible story ,,Young fathers should get training on how to handle babies ..If a baby cries you cant shake the baby to death, thats what appaerntly happend here. sad sad story ”
And some mothers are just that - MOTHERS - who also need to attend mommy school.
14
Oct 27, 2008 at 11:16 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why do Frum people ALWAYS defend "Frum" monsters? Would they do the same for a freier Yid? Even if they "know" him as well as they say they know this despicable creature? Just because he has the levush & shockels when he davens, does that make him innocent?
Where's the wife? Poor lady, losing her baby to her husband. Yeah, yeah, innocent till proven guilty, yada yada yada. SOMEBODY murdered this baby & the police don't just say Oh, Charedi Dad, he's our guy.
BTW, how old is Dad? 19?? Perhaps these kids are too immature to marry & be fathers & listen to babies cry. That's what babies do!! ”
The halacha is a jew you have to dan zan lcaf zchis a frier yid who doesn't believe in hashem does not say you have to dan zan lzchis
15
Oct 27, 2008 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:
To those who think that the father is innocent:
The father's teeth marks were in the baby's neck.
16
Oct 27, 2008 at 11:27 AM Anonymous Says:
These people for a erlicha yid they wouldn't find any zchis
17
Oct 27, 2008 at 11:37 AM ShatzMatz Says:
Has anyone been following this case? Are you aware that the baby had bit marks on his neck? Also, the father admitted to police that he killed his baby because he couldnt stand the child's crying and because he didn't like the fact that his child had a birth defect in his neck. At the time, all the machers said to wait and see that the evidence will clear the father. Well, in the end it turned out otherwise. Now, what do you have to say?
18
Oct 27, 2008 at 12:00 PM Anonymous Says:
WOW! So many opinions from so many people so uninformed and uneducated!
FWIW, I have no information about this case to judge the father, as obviously many other do not, but some of what has been written here utter nonesense.
Several of the comments can only come from people who have no experience with shaken baby syndrome. (halavai no one should ever have experience with such things.)
None of you know anything more than one side or the other wants you to know.
19
Oct 27, 2008 at 11:55 AM Anonymous Says:
These people for a erlicha yid they wouldn't find any zchis
20
Oct 27, 2008 at 11:51 AM Babishka Says:
“ To those who think that the father is innocent:
The father's teeth marks were in the baby's neck. ”
There were no teeth marks. This was a complete lie, created by media lynch mob hysteria.
לא מצא על התינוק סימנים המוכיחים כי ספג סטירות וכן לא מצא שום סימן נשיכה על צווארו של התינוק. עורכי דינו של ולס טוענים כי הדבר כי מהווה ראיה לכך שאין להסתמך על הודאתו של ולס, שאמר בחקירתו במשטרה כי נשך את בנו התינוק בצווארו.
He did not find signs on the baby proving that he had been struck, and similarly did not find any bite mark on his neck. Valis’ lawyers assert that this is proof that one cannot rely upon Valis’ confession, in which he admitted under police interrogation that he had bitten his child on the neck.
21
Oct 27, 2008 at 12:07 PM Avraham Abba Says:
“ To those who think that the father is innocent:
The father's teeth marks were in the baby's neck. ”
I did not read anything in the article about the father's teeth marks. Please!
22
Oct 27, 2008 at 12:02 PM Anonymous Says:
It seem like the Chochomim here know more about this than the doctor that was hired by Hatzola.
He did extensive tests and then agreed with the prosecution's contention that the baby was shaken so violently that it was killed. The baby was already blind by the time it arrived in the emergency room, due to the blood that had gone to the retina.
23
Oct 27, 2008 at 01:13 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Shame on you for writing such a headline!!! All people involved truly believe that he is completely innocent, NOT that they are protecting a frum "killer," chas v'chalila. ”
Yanki, In voos zoogn zaane Lawyers?????!!!!!
24
Oct 27, 2008 at 01:10 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Well, look at the RABBI in Monsey who fooled all by selling treife meat and look at our TEACHERS who molest our kids and our LEADERS/RABBI'S who brush it under carpets. i'm not saying the father did a wrong but who knows, he could be the finest yet. . . . G-D KNOWS THE TRUTH. hopefully he's innocent and then G-D will surely not let him suffer. ”
Either way, it's a tragedy! But don't be a cynic! (that's one [giant] step away past being skeptical)! What puzzles me is the fact that the lawyer/s had access to the forensic report. And if there is no evidence of the established, deliberate [negative] actions on the part of the father, why was he convicted?! On what basis? It's hard to believe that the Judges are that [far] prejudiced, and the attorneys going along with it!
p.s.: One part of this news report (by Ynet) was misinterpreted (and it comes across as bluster). In the the testimony by Rabbi Israel Eichler, where he is quoted as saying that "If sentenced to a prison term it will be the destruction of the second Temple"! That, is a hyperbolic statement! The meaning of this statement when taken in its proper context is; That the dissolution of a marriage is as sad to Hashem as if the [second] Temple were destroyed [again]...!
25
Oct 27, 2008 at 12:53 PM grose Says:
as someone who does know the details in this case and knows (as does everyone in the court system as well as in the hospital, since the hospital messed up in the child's treatment) the father did not kill his child. not by any stretch of the imagination. He is an exemplary husband (hence the cry, poor mother of the child, is misguided as he has always been there for his wife and his baby). Every single person who maligned him, who believe the lies of his murdering the baby, ought to ask him Mechila (and the same for you vosizneias for placing such a title to this article) and should maybe think of getting involved in klal work so that you can learn first-hand injustices in the world.
26
Oct 27, 2008 at 12:51 PM dan lkaf zechus Says:
I've been following case. Absolutely NO teeth marks were found. wat happened was baby was crying father shook him to be quiet when baby didn't stop father shook him more and stronger till baby fell out of fathers hand, lost conciouse at which point he seeked medical help. Wat is interesting to me is NO mention of his wife all along, a point to ponder....
27
Oct 27, 2008 at 01:34 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Why do Frum people ALWAYS defend "Frum" monsters? Would they do the same for a freier Yid? Even if they "know" him as well as they say they know this despicable creature? Just because he has the levush & shockels when he davens, does that make him innocent?
Where's the wife? Poor lady, losing her baby to her husband. Yeah, yeah, innocent till proven guilty, yada yada yada. SOMEBODY murdered this baby & the police don't just say Oh, Charedi Dad, he's our guy.
BTW, how old is Dad? 19?? Perhaps these kids are too immature to marry & be fathers & listen to babies cry. That's what babies do!! ”
You're venting all your prejudices in this post! Charedi vs. non-Rel., levush, shockels, moral equivalence, etc.! (Try to get past your [probably] guilty conscience that drives you to these judgments!) It's none of those reasons enumerated. It's only human nature (And [even] Chareidim who wear the Levush and Shockle are human. You grant them as much, no?!) to protect your friends and acquaintances, even when they tend to be wrong!!!
28
Oct 27, 2008 at 01:43 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Has anyone been following this case? Are you aware that the baby had bit marks on his neck? Also, the father admitted to police that he killed his baby because he couldnt stand the child's crying and because he didn't like the fact that his child had a birth defect in his neck. At the time, all the machers said to wait and see that the evidence will clear the father. Well, in the end it turned out otherwise. Now, what do you have to say? ”
The fact that [all] the machers said to wait till the evidence comes in were right! You can not prejudge a case or jump to conclusions, even though in your heart you would like to (sometimes)! On the last line of your quote. "Now what do you have to say"?! Nothing! we did the right thing to wait for [all] the evidence to come in! That's exactly what we're going to do in all cases, including yours, buddy!!!
29
Oct 27, 2008 at 01:41 PM Anonymous Says:
I agree with MOM, unless a person has a known mental disorder - he would kill his own child. This is a typical anti-chareidi story.
30
Oct 27, 2008 at 01:40 PM bubbe Says:
That poor baby. What a terrible thing to happen. If it's true, the father should rot in jail until he's too old to have more kids. If he didn't kill the child (even through a temper or frustration) he deserves our rachmones. The problem is, even the most sheltered parents know that shaking a baby is dangerous & often fatal. So I would think, not knowing any details of the parents, that this father just couldn't stand listening to a screaming baby. Who can? B"H most of us just walk away if we feel at breaking point. This father apparently didn't. So he must pay the price.
31
Oct 27, 2008 at 01:59 PM community activist Says:
Why should a yid talk this way against another yid everything needs to be proven just like Malestation HIDE THE SUBJECT maybe another life will be destroyed
All we allways see is when it comes to a subject of a yid arrested everyone gets excited iether extreme to the good or extremly to the bad ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND MAKE UP OUR MINDS EVERY TREE HAS BAD APPLES NOT EVERYONE IS BAD BUT EIN ISH BUURETS ASHER YAASE TOV V'LOY YECHTE
Now when we are talking about a young father and a baby did anyone ever givhim instructions how to deal with a baby or he was told if the baby cryes shake the baby untill it stops mayby the baby didnt stop so he had to speed up inthe shaking speed
bottom line is dont crtitisise another yid when we dont know the story and we will never know the truth of the story he nebech lost achild lets all be mispalel for him
32
Oct 27, 2008 at 02:45 PM Anonymous Says:
This is a great tradgedy, however the man was convicted by the court after what I would hope was a fair trial and overwhelming evidence was presented to prove "BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT" that the father was guilty of the heinous crime. While not every Shofait is fond of Charedim, I would surely not be so brazen to think that a Judge would convict a person of a capital crime soley on the basis of his affiliation or his personal dislike of Chareidim. But my more vexing question is one for all this young mans surpporters, Would you leave this man alone for any time with your infant child or grandchild as caretaker? If your answer is to the negative (& please be honset to yourself in this answer) you have no right to comment that this is a mis-carriage of justice. May HKB provide the necessary compassion for this family to find peace. And to #31 No where in any medical texts, parenting guides or first aid manuals does it indicate to shake an infant. An infant's cerival spine and brain are at a very tender state and not yet stable enough to withstand any shaking vigorus or otherwise, hence parents are instructed to allways hold an infants head, so as not to hyper extend the infants cervical spine since the muscles necessary to stabilize the c-spine are not fully developed.
33
Oct 27, 2008 at 02:48 PM Deepthinker Says:
Why do you call him a "killer?"--It was a tragic accident. Do you think Meir Porush would testify on behaf of a murderer?
34
Oct 27, 2008 at 03:16 PM Anonymous Says:
I don't think the father intentionally killed his baby, He was just trying to quiet him by violently shaking him. He may not have realized that this is dangerous for an infant. It is not surprising that a young guy like this would not know much about taking care of children as he is a child himself. Perhaps we need to reevaluate the age at which we allow people to get married in our community and make them wait till they are mature enough to handle the responsibility. Perhaps also there needs to be be more support for families who may be feeling overwhelmed by the the obligations of parenthood to the extent that they do something like this. He obviously did not know how to handle the stress or have anyone to help him deal with it and so now the baby is dead. On a certain level the community as a whole shares responsibility for not having mechanisms in place to prevent this kind of thing.
35
Oct 27, 2008 at 04:37 PM anonintheknow Says:
for those who are saying he "shook the baby" to quiet the baby, you got the story the way the media wants you to get it. He actually was laying down with the baby on his chest and "shuckling" back and forth on the bed -- which of you hasn't done that with a baby. The baby slipped off the bed. that is not murder by any stretch of the imagination -- it is murder of the father what is being done to him
36
Oct 27, 2008 at 04:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You're venting all your prejudices in this post! Charedi vs. non-Rel., levush, shockels, moral equivalence, etc.! (Try to get past your [probably] guilty conscience that drives you to these judgments!) It's none of those reasons enumerated. It's only human nature (And [even] Chareidim who wear the Levush and Shockle are human. You grant them as much, no?!) to protect your friends and acquaintances, even when they tend to be wrong!!! ”
Sorry to disappoint you, Bigwheeel, but I'm Chassidish. Now what?
37
Oct 27, 2008 at 04:20 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why do Frum people ALWAYS defend "Frum" monsters? Would they do the same for a freier Yid? Even if they "know" him as well as they say they know this despicable creature? Just because he has the levush & shockels when he davens, does that make him innocent?
Where's the wife? Poor lady, losing her baby to her husband. Yeah, yeah, innocent till proven guilty, yada yada yada. SOMEBODY murdered this baby & the police don't just say Oh, Charedi Dad, he's our guy.
BTW, how old is Dad? 19?? Perhaps these kids are too immature to marry & be fathers & listen to babies cry. That's what babies do!! ”
People should really take a moment to think before they hit the 'Post Comment' button.
If the problem had anything to do with the age of the father there would G-d forbid be thousands of cases amongst the charaidim.
38
Oct 27, 2008 at 05:06 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
Once again the tisk tiskers and the oy oyers are out in force asking that we be dan lkaf zchus that the father is innocent even though he confessed and even though his teeth marks were embedded in the neck of the murdered child.
What a sorry abuse of middos. At some point any intelligent person would simply say there is no more room left to be dan lkaf zchus. Porush and his ilk are rallying support for this man because they know he faces long and severe jail time. And that is sad.
But as a community the outcry should be for victims of battery, whether its a man or woman and certainly a defenseless child. I don't see anyone posting about what system of ours was in place that created an abusive father, then allowed him to have children.
39
Oct 27, 2008 at 05:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Well, look at the RABBI in Monsey who fooled all by selling treife meat and look at our TEACHERS who molest our kids and our LEADERS/RABBI'S who brush it under carpets. i'm not saying the father did a wrong but who knows, he could be the finest yet. . . . G-D KNOWS THE TRUTH. hopefully he's innocent and then G-D will surely not let him suffer. ”
what is with you!?!
TO #1:
what does this amotional case 'if anything' it was shakin a little to hard by mistake!
why are you comparing this to a physical action done by someones mentally misbehaver!?!
40
Oct 27, 2008 at 05:23 PM Painful Truth Says:
“ I've been following case. Absolutely NO teeth marks were found. wat happened was baby was crying father shook him to be quiet when baby didn't stop father shook him more and stronger till baby fell out of fathers hand, lost conciouse at which point he seeked medical help. Wat is interesting to me is NO mention of his wife all along, a point to ponder.... ”
This is in reply to #25 and #26:
Dan l'Kav Zechus?
Fine.
But, what about familiarizing yourselves with the facts, rather than rely upon the rumors.
Fact is that the doctor hired by Hatzola (Prof Rifkind) did extensive tests to determine whether the prosecution experts were mistaken.
His finding was that the baby was shaken so violently that it was brutally killed.
Do you want to know how violently?
Well, the baby was already blind by the time it arrived in the emergency room.
Are you saying that Prof Rifkind, hired by Hatzolah, was lying and falsifying evidence to help convict the side that was paying him?
41
Oct 27, 2008 at 07:03 PM Anonymous Says:
Amazing how many people here are claiming they know the true story. How many versions do we have here?
42
Oct 27, 2008 at 07:08 PM Anonymous Says:
Where is the mother?
43
Oct 27, 2008 at 07:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ for those who are saying he "shook the baby" to quiet the baby, you got the story the way the media wants you to get it. He actually was laying down with the baby on his chest and "shuckling" back and forth on the bed -- which of you hasn't done that with a baby. The baby slipped off the bed. that is not murder by any stretch of the imagination -- it is murder of the father what is being done to him ”
realy noww ! so u were tere to testify that this is exactly as you said? sure u were there. If u were there then why didnt you help him??
44
Oct 27, 2008 at 07:16 PM Sharing the tsar Says:
Did the father want to kill his child? The answer is a clear "no". The tsar and pain that he will suffer for the rest of his life is enough punishment for him already, rachmoness should be the proper reaction to this.
45
Oct 27, 2008 at 08:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ for those who are saying he "shook the baby" to quiet the baby, you got the story the way the media wants you to get it. He actually was laying down with the baby on his chest and "shuckling" back and forth on the bed -- which of you hasn't done that with a baby. The baby slipped off the bed. that is not murder by any stretch of the imagination -- it is murder of the father what is being done to him ”
COME ON-- SHUKLING BACK AND FORTH?????????????????? YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT??????? YES WE ALL DID THAT BUT NEVER HAD THIS B"H!!!!! THAT WOULD NOT CAUSE TRAUMA!!! BE REALISTIC.
46
Oct 27, 2008 at 09:22 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ I've been following case. Absolutely NO teeth marks were found. wat happened was baby was crying father shook him to be quiet when baby didn't stop father shook him more and stronger till baby fell out of fathers hand, lost conciouse at which point he seeked medical help. Wat is interesting to me is NO mention of his wife all along, a point to ponder.... ”
DLKZ; after the father shook the baby, he didn't need to fall out of his hands to sustain [permanent] damage to his organs! First, according to the reports, the baby was blind when arrived at the hospital, as a result of his being shaken! Then, there's a dispute whether the baby had teeth marks on his neck (or anywhere else on his body). This is a fact (as opposed to an opinion) which can very easily be established! The court would not have convicted him on the basis of his police confession alone!!!
47
Oct 27, 2008 at 09:44 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Sorry to disappoint you, Bigwheeel, but I'm Chassidish. Now what? ”
You can be [dressed] Chassidish, or otherwise, but having a mindset of guilt or prejudice! Of constantly being concerned how you're viewed by others (not in your group)! Frankly, the [peripheral] terms that you used in relation to the discussion at hand, show deep-seated revulsion of the characters that you enumerated!!!
48
Oct 27, 2008 at 09:36 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Why should a yid talk this way against another yid everything needs to be proven just like Malestation HIDE THE SUBJECT maybe another life will be destroyed
All we allways see is when it comes to a subject of a yid arrested everyone gets excited iether extreme to the good or extremly to the bad ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND MAKE UP OUR MINDS EVERY TREE HAS BAD APPLES NOT EVERYONE IS BAD BUT EIN ISH BUURETS ASHER YAASE TOV V'LOY YECHTE
Now when we are talking about a young father and a baby did anyone ever givhim instructions how to deal with a baby or he was told if the baby cryes shake the baby untill it stops mayby the baby didnt stop so he had to speed up inthe shaking speed
bottom line is dont crtitisise another yid when we dont know the story and we will never know the truth of the story he nebech lost achild lets all be mispalel for him ”
Until you "said" that "Maybe the father had to increase the shaking speed" I thought you were serious! Now we know that you are being facetious! dee machst stam letzanus!!!
49
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:10 PM A POSHITER YID Says:
“ Until you "said" that "Maybe the father had to increase the shaking speed" I thought you were serious! Now we know that you are being facetious! dee machst stam letzanus!!! ”
No letzanus! The father lost his mind and didn't know how to cope. hey! where's his wife? no backing? (some guilt there.)
50
Oct 27, 2008 at 10:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why do you call him a "killer?"--It was a tragic accident. Do you think Meir Porush would testify on behaf of a murderer? ”
Porush is sticking up for a frum jew. THINK! This father may not have killed his baby purposely, he very likely was and still is in shock at wat happened and the ordeal he's facing. He may be a great man to his wife and kids if any but was not responsible enough with wat happened. meaning he shook the baby too long or tougher than gentle. till one yr they're very tender and subsceptible to any danger.he way have done it outof frustration and lost temper at that moment. if so he's responsible...
51
Oct 28, 2008 at 12:15 AM anon Says:
yes, a blow to a head of a child -- the child did slip -- would mean that there would be internal bleeding and would cause the blindness. the baby did not have to be shaken violently for that to happen -- the slip and fall alone could have done that. so, folks, it could be, and probably was, that the father did not shake the child any harder than you rock the child. the fact that the child slipped and fell was more than enough for trauma to be severe
52
Oct 28, 2008 at 04:31 AM Anonymous Says:
I wonder if they screened for Diabetic Ketoacidosis or Severe Liver Failure as a possible reason for the baby's death. It could be that the politicians are using this as a way to tell the Chareidim that their opposition to autopsies has gone overboard..
53
Oct 28, 2008 at 08:07 AM MOM Says:
“ Mom...what would you say if it was YOUR child/nephew, G-d forbid? He seems like a frum nice young man?
Glad you're not married into my family. You're as stupid as they make 'em.
Then again, maybe you're not real? Oh, by the way, the Monsey Rabbi who was raping his own daughter...that's a Zionist plot also? ”
My heart goes out for your spouse and your kids. You seem like an abnormal intolerant person who cant handle any mistakes or different opinion. I can just see one of your kids dropping a bowl and you hitting the roof. I AM GLAD YOUR NOT MY PARENT. Shut up your dirty mouth before hashem will punish you. Maybe if you would be in a similar situation like this father maybe then you would understand him. And do you really think that if the father wanted to kill the child he would take the child to the ER??
And to all poster who SAW the teeth marks do you work in that hospital??
54
Oct 28, 2008 at 12:45 PM Anonymous Says:
A lot of people are at their wits' ends with a crying baby and never shake him. And all the people shreing about a false confession should face some facts. Valis confessed to shaking the poor child and also to striking his wife. The autopsy PROVED the shaking. "A good man?" A good man doesn't kill his child like that -- or hit his wife. So what if the he can learn; how did it affect his actions in a crisis?
And be real: Knowing his history, would you want Valis marrying your daughter or sister or any woman you cared about?
55
Oct 28, 2008 at 02:10 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ I wonder if they screened for Diabetic Ketoacidosis or Severe Liver Failure as a possible reason for the baby's death. It could be that the politicians are using this as a way to tell the Chareidim that their opposition to autopsies has gone overboard.. ”
They didn't get there The evidence of shaken baby syndrome was there, and was determined to be the cause of death!!!
56
Oct 28, 2008 at 02:48 PM Bartley Kulp Says:
“ My heart goes out for your spouse and your kids. You seem like an abnormal intolerant person who cant handle any mistakes or different opinion. I can just see one of your kids dropping a bowl and you hitting the roof. I AM GLAD YOUR NOT MY PARENT. Shut up your dirty mouth before hashem will punish you. Maybe if you would be in a similar situation like this father maybe then you would understand him. And do you really think that if the father wanted to kill the child he would take the child to the ER??
And to all poster who SAW the teeth marks do you work in that hospital?? ”
I have been following your posts and have found your attitude very hostile to the ideah that anyone in the frum community could do such things. Now for starters the accused was not convicted of murder but manslaughter. Nobody said that the father is a monster. Of course he did not mean to hurt his baby that is why he took him to the ER. Do not get me wrong, I feel very sorry for this young man and he should probably be sentenced leniently. The horror of loosing his child by an action that may have been caused by him is actually the worst punishment that one could endure.
Though this business of accusing the Zionist authorities of sensationalizing the incident because he is Chareidi is very misplaced. The thing that is the most sensational about this story now is no longer the incident itself but the Jesse Jackson "you're doing this because I am black" tactics that both the rabbis and laymen in his community are deploying do not come off so well with the authorities or the public. Also this business of saying what a perfect tzaddik he is and that he was going places makes these respectable people potentially sound naive in an elitist fashion at best and socially clandish at worst.
Consider the fact that there are many horrible monsters that have been convicted (I am not comparing Mr. Valis them) where everybody in their community were stunned. They said things like; "he was a wonderful neighbor, boy scout leader, baseball coach, was always there for people in the community in need, treated everybody with respect, was a wonderful father(in cases that did not involve family abuse) did community volunteer work, donated generously and was always a participant at church, etc., ad infinum, ad nauseum. These are people who have been convicted of abduction, rape and torture.
Now the young man in question is not being accused of such horrible things. I for one am not going to judge him whether or not he shook his baby. Whatever the case, I do not think that he really meant his baby harm and I do feel sorry for him. It is just that I have had enough of this sensationalized circus that is being made worse by all these smokescreen and you just want to convict a chareidi tactics.
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Oct 30, 2008 at 08:11 PM Anonymous Says:
In this month's issue of Discover magazine page 61 there is an article on SBS Shaken Baby Syndrome and the question from some Doctor's is does this syndrome actually exist and does evidence for it only exist on dubious medical grounds?