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Lakewood, NJ - Failure to Halt at Stop Sign Kills Mother and Critically Injures Daughter

Published on:   Oct 28, 2008 at 09:30 PM
News Source: APP / VIN News
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Lakewood, NJ - A Jackson woman remained in critical condition following a three-vehicle crash at North Hope Chapel Road and New Central Avenue which claimed the life of her mother Saturday night.

Beverly Hyman, 50, of Jackson was pronounced dead at the scene of the crash which happened just after 8 p.m. Saturday, said Patrolman Trevor Crowley of the traffic safety bureau.

In critical condition at Jersey Shore University Medical Center in Neptune was her daughter, Tamia Hyman, 21, who was taken there for treatment of a head injury, multiple compound fractures and internal injuries.

Beverly Hyman was a front seat passenger in a 2004 Mercury Mountaineer driven by her husband, Timothy Hyman, 51. Tamia Hyman was sitting in the back seat.

The Hyman vehicle was struck by a 2002 Honda minivan driven by Chana Neumann, 20, of Lakewood, who had a passenger, a 17-year-old Lakewood girl. The Neumann vehicle failed to stop at the stop sign on New Central Avenue and hit the Hyman vehicle and a pickup truck which were both traveling on North Hope Chapel Road.

The crash happened on wet roads and there was a torrential rain storm during the emergency response and subsequent investigation, Crowley said.

Crowley is investigating along with traffic safety officers Patrick Mackin and Joseph Candido.

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Police ask that anyone who may have information regarding the crash to call police traffic safety unit at (732) 928-1111.


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1

 Oct 28, 2008 at 10:38 PM ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

2

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

Ex-frummie,
You're just a total idiot. Imagine the tzaar this poor yiddishe girl is going through, and this is what you have to write???
Did you ever have brains and a heart or did you loose it all when you became ex???

3

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:02 PM Anonymous Says:

omg; wow
this woman can kiss her husband and kids goodbye
unfortunately, she will really get hit due to murder and hopefully only ONE

4

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

What's your point...that Frum people are bad drivers? That's so crazy it doesn't deserve answering. Do YOU know the facts? Were cell phones really involved? Maybe you should say Tehillim for the injured girl. Oh, sorry, you're an ex-Frummie so you don't do G-d & His stuff, I guess.

What a horrible situation. The 17 year old driver of the other car will have to live with what she did (assuming it was her fault but I don't know). The problem is young inexperienced drivers, powerful machines, & dark roads.

By the way, was the stop sign hidden by trees? That is a real problem in more rural areas. If you don't know the roadds well you may miss them.

5

 Oct 28, 2008 at 10:58 PM current frummie Says:

Reply to #1  
ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

Yeah. The non frummies that text message while they drive, drive drunk and high on drugs and are wrapped up in all sorts of elevated thoughts that are unfit to mention on this blog, they certainly never get into accidents.

6

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

Ex-frummie,
You're just a total idiot. Imagine the tzaar this poor yiddishe girl is going through, and this is what you have to write???
Did you ever have brains and a heart or did you loose it all when you became ex???

7

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:05 PM lipa Says:

Yeh its true the ladies should not drive here THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE

8

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:21 PM ex frummie Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Ex-frummie,
You're just a total idiot. Imagine the tzaar this poor yiddishe girl is going through, and this is what you have to write???
Did you ever have brains and a heart or did you loose it all when you became ex???

this girl just killed this woman and put her daughter in the hospital and you have more sympathy for "the poor yiddishe neshoma"????? whats wrong with you

9

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:19 PM ex frummie Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

What's your point...that Frum people are bad drivers? That's so crazy it doesn't deserve answering. Do YOU know the facts? Were cell phones really involved? Maybe you should say Tehillim for the injured girl. Oh, sorry, you're an ex-Frummie so you don't do G-d & His stuff, I guess.

What a horrible situation. The 17 year old driver of the other car will have to live with what she did (assuming it was her fault but I don't know). The problem is young inexperienced drivers, powerful machines, & dark roads.

By the way, was the stop sign hidden by trees? That is a real problem in more rural areas. If you don't know the roadds well you may miss them.

thats not my point -whats wrong with you people? of course it was her fault cant you read ? she ran the stop sign and killed a woman and seriously injured her daughter my point is that these people should drive more considerately and not think theyre above the traffic rules and believe me im not saying this out of spite- i live here and not a day goes by that i dont have to honk or flip the finger to these idiots

10

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:14 PM ex frummie Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Ex-frummie,
You're just a total idiot. Imagine the tzaar this poor yiddishe girl is going through, and this is what you have to write???
Did you ever have brains and a heart or did you loose it all when you became ex???

youre an idiot you have more sympathy for the girl who ran the stop sign when the woman she crashed into died and her daughter is fighting for her life you idiot

11

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Maybe her brackes did not work and besides you don't go 50 mph when it is poring outside I'm sure they were going that fast

12

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:06 PM Anonymous Says:

#1 you just sound like a real ignorant moron, didn't you here about the accidents across the USA (you make it sound like this is the only accident in the us) this is just another tragic road accident - it was raining - no claim that driver of the Honda was talking on her cellphone. don't jump to conclusions, and don't blame people who are not to be blamed. and don't claim that frum people disregard life, since everyone with an open mind knows that it's not true. except if you have the sick liberal mindset that spanking or smacking your child to make him obey is Child Abuse, but if you would have killed that child in the ninth month it's perfectly fine

13

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Huh? What is the big deal, woman doesn't see stop sign, hits someone. Its unfortunate but it happens thousands of times each year. No one is going to jail unless there was proven neglect. #1 great job working everyone up, you knew it would get you attention. Look for something else to do.

14

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:53 PM sick of O.H.B. Says:

I am sick of these liberals pointing out their obviously twisted and biased points of views. Go back to frumkeit and then comment with a clear mind and wothout flipping fingers. We so bad! Read all the articles of the chesed being done. I am dure even though you spit at your family they would welcome you with open arms!!

15

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

Ignorance and sarcasm over a serious matter.

16

 Oct 28, 2008 at 11:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
ex frummie Says:

thats not my point -whats wrong with you people? of course it was her fault cant you read ? she ran the stop sign and killed a woman and seriously injured her daughter my point is that these people should drive more considerately and not think theyre above the traffic rules and believe me im not saying this out of spite- i live here and not a day goes by that i dont have to honk or flip the finger to these idiots

Yes, I can read quite well, thank you. I mastered level 4 in my elementary school primer.

If you go back to the original article, the police are appealing for witnesses. Could it be they aren't certain what happened? Do YOU know FOR A FACT what occurred? Could it be she couldn't stop on the wet road, that the brakes may have failed, that she hydroplaned (wow, I can spell too!) on the road surface?

Yes, she killed a woman. Does that necessarily mean it was more than just a tragic accident? The point is, nobody knows right now. So who is being judgmental, Mr. Ex-Frummie? Oh, but of course, only irreligious people can be right. Accidents are never caused by non-Frum Jews or even goyim, are they? When there's blame to be apportioned, it must be placed squarely at the feet of the religious Jews. Maybe if you hate your neighbors so much it's time to move. I hear Harlem is getting quite white these days.

17

 Oct 29, 2008 at 12:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Every other frum lady and guy I see is yakking away on a cellphone while driving. Rabbi Avigdor Miller zt'l would've called them 'murderers'.

18

 Oct 29, 2008 at 12:43 AM ex frumie 2 Says:

He is an EX FRUMIE like I am ...don't worry he is frum and knows yidish well and he loves chulent ,d overnight kigel and to go on to vosizneias he is trying to play devils advocate

19

 Oct 29, 2008 at 02:48 AM elter zeide Says:

I live in brklyn & see male & female frum & not frum. driving while on d cell fone, & passing stop signs, something like this will ch'vsh happen.

20

 Oct 29, 2008 at 07:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Ex-frummie,
You're just a total idiot. Imagine the tzaar this poor yiddishe girl is going through, and this is what you have to write???
Did you ever have brains and a heart or did you loose it all when you became ex???

Imagine the Tzar of the victims.!!
I have no idea what really happened but in Brooklyn there is a sickness of frum women very often driving while holding cell phones, which is against local law.

21

 Oct 29, 2008 at 08:17 AM would rather walk Says:

The driver was 20 and the passenger was 17, making the driver and adult. An accident is not necessarily vehicular homicide. The religion of the at-fault driver is irrelevant, but Jews should realize that traffic law as well as natural law applies equally to everyone. Everyone should slow down and drive more cautiously and avoid multi-tasking behind the wheel. Drivers at fault in fatal accidents may have trouble retaining insurance, face a heavy fine, possibly a lawsuit, may have license suspension, but most likely will avoid jail (unless drugs, alcohol or reckless driving was involved). This should be a wake up call for all drivers, Jewish or otherwise; if it is raining, go below the speed limit.

22

 Oct 29, 2008 at 08:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Did anyone mention cell phones in the original article? This is how vicious rumors start. One idiot decides to pontificate on a particular hypothesis (theory) & the rest of you decide it's a fact.

Not one of us knows what really happened. It may well be that all the people involved don't really know either. These things happen so fast.

People, try not to make such fools of yourselves by paskening shaalos. Nobody asked you to be on a jury, thank G-d! You weren't there, you don't know. You read as much as the rest of us. What's so difficult to understand??

23

 Oct 29, 2008 at 09:04 AM Yonason Says:

Reply to #1  
ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

Unusually insensitive and hateful for you; why?

24

 Oct 29, 2008 at 09:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Wrong facts! The Frum driver was travelling on Hope Rd. WITHOUT THE STOP SIGN!! Please correct the post! The newspaper also has the wrong facts.

25

 Oct 29, 2008 at 10:17 AM Lakewood Basher Says:

BD"H - Such a tragedy.
I am not going to say this ONLY happens in Lakewood, but it seems to be prevalent: people walk into the road with out even looking (I see it the whole time - especially kids) AND people drive around with no care to other drivers or pedestrians.
Its time for a road safety awareness campaign.

26

 Oct 29, 2008 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

Wrong facts! The Frum driver was travelling on Hope Rd. WITHOUT THE STOP SIGN!! Please correct the post! The newspaper also has the wrong facts.

Ex Frummies's mind is already made up. Please, everyone, stop trying to confuse him/her with the facts.

To self-hating Jews like ex-frummie all 50,000 traffic deaths in the USA every year are the fault of kollel wives on cell funs and kollel members' heads being lost in learning.

Ignore him/her. You don't need to point out that he/she is a self hating Jew. He/she already let everyone know.

27

 Oct 29, 2008 at 10:27 AM Future Ex EX frumie Says:

I think the point is that these accidents happen all the time, jewish and non jewish, BUT this is a good opportunity to raise awareness of the issues that do in fact plague drivers in our communities, especially in lakewood where i live.

Women on cells phone constantly, men holding gemorahs as they drive ( like hashem will reward them for their piety on that one) - kids jumping around moving cars with no car seats or bels, men picking up strange teenage boys for rides all over town.

Did i forget to mention the seat-belt less rov who nearly ran me and our baby carriage over after he drove on the wrong side of the road, too impatient to wait for a right turning car?

Or how about the 3 bochurim on cell phones driving at least 55 down sunset road , swerving to avoid a legally turning car, and when confronted in the parking lot of the shul: "nu, nu, we were late for mincha" * once again, im sure hashem will be very proud of these boys for their sacrifices to make minyan on time

How can i neglect to mention the woman with an infact ON HER LAP driving through the development "uch, uch, im late for playgroup" was her response when i questioned her great parenting

One of my personal favorites, the beared, black hated, tzitzit wearing guy smoking in his car, with his children inhaling the cancerous smoke. Dont worry, hashem will look past that because you sacrifice so much and race to minyan 3 times a day

The bottom line is, while there are bad drivers anywhere, we scold this woman because this is our home town, and these problems do exist and we need to highlight them at every opportunity,

28

 Oct 29, 2008 at 10:34 AM mechelpipik Says:

Reply to #7  
lipa Says:

Yeh its true the ladies should not drive here THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE

IDIOT!!! DON'T BASH WOMEN, MEN ARE JUST AS CARELESS. FAMILIARISE YOURSELF WITH DETAILS FIRST.

29

 Oct 29, 2008 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
Lakewood Basher Says:

BD"H - Such a tragedy.
I am not going to say this ONLY happens in Lakewood, but it seems to be prevalent: people walk into the road with out even looking (I see it the whole time - especially kids) AND people drive around with no care to other drivers or pedestrians.
Its time for a road safety awareness campaign.

Finally, some constructive comments. R"L it is only at times like this that voices like these are noticed. That should not be the case but it should also not be the case that because some in Lakewood (as everywhere else) are not careful on the road we run to blame this accident on reckless actions we don't even know happened.

30

 Oct 29, 2008 at 11:31 AM MGirl Says:

What about the women that push their strollers into the street and then check if it's safe to go. I see it happen everywhere, all day and every day.

31

 Oct 29, 2008 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:

whatabout the the driers who want to do chesed and pick up a passenger and just decide the last moment to stop in the middle of the street with out concern of traffic behind them. Not only is this not a chesed its dangerous for the driver , passenger and the cars behind which have to break suddenly or go around them. i see this all the time and its a ime bomb cliking.

32

 Oct 29, 2008 at 12:26 PM FinVeeNemtMenSeichel Says:

Reply to #8  
ex frummie Says:

this girl just killed this woman and put her daughter in the hospital and you have more sympathy for "the poor yiddishe neshoma"????? whats wrong with you

Look, you idiot: it's the fact that you hate religious people so much, to the point that you won't deal with this as a tragedy but rather as an indictment of frum people in general. buddy, i don't know and no longer care what happened to you that turned you off from religion, but your heart and soul are black holes. you'd make a good muslim.

33

 Oct 29, 2008 at 12:57 PM learned the facts Says:

The driver of the minivan ran a stop sign at New Central road. Two vehicles were struck who were traveling on the cross road which was Hope Road. The road was wet. There were 2 passengers in a pick-up truck which was also struck. Most of the injuries suffered by the passengers were minor except for Beverly Hyman and her 21yr old daughter. The article does not specify the injuries but it appears as though the driver and her passenger did sustain some degree of injury themselves. It just shows that life and death are a split second apart. I have a feeling that the driver is normally a responsible adult.

34

 Oct 29, 2008 at 02:18 PM Jacobson Says:

This is so sad. It happened moments after shabbos ended. Yes that woman is at fault failing to stop at the stop sign. She has killed an innocent woman, with a family. No matter what her punishment is, she will have to live with this guilt the rest of her life. Her conscience is sentencing her to life in heck. My deepest condolences to the family who lost their loved one. The signs may seem stupid or pointless to some, but they are there for OUR protection. They were not put there for fun. If you do not remember the rules of the road in New Jersey, please, reread the drivers manual, and have respect for the road and it's drivers.

35

 Oct 29, 2008 at 05:40 PM ex frummie Says:

Reply to #23  
Yonason Says:

Unusually insensitive and hateful for you; why?

since youre the only intelligent poster here ill answer you-obviously i feel really bad for the girl since accidents do unfortunately happen ,however im shocked that people cold feel more sympathy for her and disregard the fact that she was at fault and killed a woman now the point i was making is that people in lkwd should be more considerate as i said i lived here and theyre terrible drivers but i wasnt condemning her or lakewood (and i didnt say she was on a cellphone)

36

 Oct 29, 2008 at 06:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
sick of O.H.B. Says:

I am sick of these liberals pointing out their obviously twisted and biased points of views. Go back to frumkeit and then comment with a clear mind and wothout flipping fingers. We so bad! Read all the articles of the chesed being done. I am dure even though you spit at your family they would welcome you with open arms!!

Oh, I forgot. Mitzvah #614 is the lo sa'aseh that "you must not be a liberal."

Thank you, Rush.

37

 Oct 29, 2008 at 07:04 PM Mother of kid that age Says:

Ex frummie, whatever belief you practice, how would you feel if this girl was your daughter? In one rushed, hurried, distracted moment, she snuffed out a life, severely injured a woman close to her in age, and caused a family tremendous anguish. Ex frummie, how many near misses have you yourself had behind the wheel? She faces a lifetime of guilt as well as other possible repercussions. The family of the dead and injured indeed deserves sympathy but this girl's life is also forever altered. This was not a premeditated crime. This girl did not set out to kill anyone. The girl's family must now deal with what happened and while I am sure that they have concerns that you cannot relate to, they have plenty of concerns that any individual who values human life can understand.

38

 Oct 29, 2008 at 11:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Hshem Yerachem- I'm not trying to be a tzadeket but Succot just ended and Yom Kippur was ans is not tooooo far back. Yes be dun l'kaf zechut and stop this shinat chinam between you guys. Please klal yisrael need the geulah and you are you pushing further. Nu Tafsiku...

39

 Oct 30, 2008 at 02:02 AM Haim Says:

that Frum people are bad drivers? That's so crazy it doesn't deserve answering. Do YOU know the facts? Were cell phones really involved? >>>>>>>>>>>>

I would not judge this poor girl but a 20 year old under any circumstance should not be driving in such weather. These type of accidents are very common with 20 year olds and this is why insurance companies charge much more for young drivers. Stats show that 90% of accidents of 25 year old drivers and under, accidents happen with the first year of driving and within 1 mile of the home of the driver.

As for frum people not knowing how to drive, i totally agree. Why don't you stand on the corner of 13Ave and 48 ST during the day and pick whichever hour you want and you will see 7 out of 10 drivers talking on cell phones, not wearing seatbelts, not signaling, going through red lights and stopping in middle of a crosswalk , dropping off people in middle of the street and blcoking traffic because it only takes " a minute" to drop off" and g-d forbid to let someone pass, and double parking all the time.

FRUM people for the most part have no regard for others and when the city tickets these jerks all we hear is how "racist" , mean, and unfair these ticket agents are and to top that off the idiots run to Simcha Felder and lie and make up stories how they got tickets "unfairly."

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Stand on 13 Ave 48 St and just watch for 10 minutes and come back with your findings.

40

 Oct 30, 2008 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Haim Says:

that Frum people are bad drivers? That's so crazy it doesn't deserve answering. Do YOU know the facts? Were cell phones really involved? >>>>>>>>>>>>

I would not judge this poor girl but a 20 year old under any circumstance should not be driving in such weather. These type of accidents are very common with 20 year olds and this is why insurance companies charge much more for young drivers. Stats show that 90% of accidents of 25 year old drivers and under, accidents happen with the first year of driving and within 1 mile of the home of the driver.

As for frum people not knowing how to drive, i totally agree. Why don't you stand on the corner of 13Ave and 48 ST during the day and pick whichever hour you want and you will see 7 out of 10 drivers talking on cell phones, not wearing seatbelts, not signaling, going through red lights and stopping in middle of a crosswalk , dropping off people in middle of the street and blcoking traffic because it only takes " a minute" to drop off" and g-d forbid to let someone pass, and double parking all the time.

FRUM people for the most part have no regard for others and when the city tickets these jerks all we hear is how "racist" , mean, and unfair these ticket agents are and to top that off the idiots run to Simcha Felder and lie and make up stories how they got tickets "unfairly."

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Stand on 13 Ave 48 St and just watch for 10 minutes and come back with your findings.

The kids of the Boro Parkers in Lakewood drive the same way. They should assur driving & smoking which are more dangerous than concerts to your Neshama.

41

 Oct 30, 2008 at 08:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

The kids of the Boro Parkers in Lakewood drive the same way. They should assur driving & smoking which are more dangerous than concerts to your Neshama.

Tamia sustained life threatening injuries and passed away Wednesday evening.
She will be missed tremulously by her loved ones and she will always be remembered by those who knew her..

Please Pray for the family. Pray for Tims well being, for he has lost the two most precious piece of his heart, Beverly and Tamia.. He needs everyones prays to mend from his injuries and the loss of his beloved wife and daughter

42

 Oct 30, 2008 at 08:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Tamia sustained life threatening injuries and passed away Wednesday evening.
She will be missed tremulously by her loved ones and she will always be remembered by those who knew her..

Please Pray for the family. Pray for Tims well being, for he has lost the two most precious piece of his heart, Beverly and Tamia.. He needs everyones prays to mend from his injuries and the loss of his beloved wife and daughter

43

 Oct 31, 2008 at 08:40 AM shlomo Says:

Reply to #1  
ex frummie Says:

this is a terrible tragedy but this was going to happen eventually -all the women driving here with cell phones and the men thinking about the blatt gemara they just learned and driving with complete disregard for life- why cant these people learn how to drive??????????????????????/

hey exfrumie:
maybe true that we are thinking in learning or having some other distraction, but , according to you, aren't the molecules that constitued the body of the deceased lady going to become difunctional at one time or another? according to you, there is no soul or anything that persists after death. it would happen now or later but the result is the same

44

 Nov 02, 2008 at 12:50 AM frum yid Says:

Reply to #43  
shlomo Says:

hey exfrumie:
maybe true that we are thinking in learning or having some other distraction, but , according to you, aren't the molecules that constitued the body of the deceased lady going to become difunctional at one time or another? according to you, there is no soul or anything that persists after death. it would happen now or later but the result is the same

Don't make a chillul Hashem by cursing out the frei person on his beliefs and not addressing the issue. If a person driving a car thinks in learning to the point he is distracted from his driving, then he is a Rodef. A rodef is just as frei as this guy even if he thinks in learning all day!

45

 Nov 02, 2008 at 11:07 PM ex frummie Says:

Reply to #44  
frum yid Says:

Don't make a chillul Hashem by cursing out the frei person on his beliefs and not addressing the issue. If a person driving a car thinks in learning to the point he is distracted from his driving, then he is a Rodef. A rodef is just as frei as this guy even if he thinks in learning all day!

nope hes worse -at least im not hurting others -what a nonsensical statement(though not as bad as the one before)

46

 Nov 02, 2008 at 11:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
ex frummie Says:

nope hes worse -at least im not hurting others -what a nonsensical statement(though not as bad as the one before)

The rodef didn't hurt anybody yet- so you and him are on equal terms!

47

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