Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Stamford, CT - Flatbush Rabbi: Forget Segulos, Give Up Pesach Hotels; Paying 'Melamdim' Inadequately Jeopardizes Our Children

Published on: November 15, 2015 10:27 AM
Change text size Text Size  
Rabbi David Ozeri of Congregation Yad Yosef in Flatbush speaking at the  93rd Agudah Convention in Stamford, CT on Nov/ 14, 2015.Rabbi David Ozeri of Congregation Yad Yosef in Flatbush speaking at the 93rd Agudah Convention in Stamford, CT on Nov/ 14, 2015.

Stamford, CT - In a passionate speech on Motzei Shabbos at the Agudah Convention in Stamford, Connecticut, a Brooklyn rabbi warned that the future of klal yisroel is in grave danger because of the dismal salaries paid to rabbeim.

Rabbi David Ozeri of Congregation Yad Yosef in Flatbush spoke eloquently for almost 35 minutes, noting that while the Jewish community has lavished attention on the sick, children at risk and the unaffiliated, those in chinuch are being neglected and are inadequately compensated for the invaluable services they provide.

Describing chinuch as “the most lofty field which the universe has to offer,” Rabbi Ozeri noted that with our children being exposed to unprecedented outside influences, quality rabbeim are more important than ever, yet many are leaving the field because they cannot support their families on the salaries that they receive.

Translating from Hebrew to English, Rabbi Ozeri quoted the Pele Yoetz who promised great rewards to those who ensure that rabbeim are paid appropriately.

“The baalei batim have to open up their eyes to these melamdim’s paranasa and whatever they are lacking,” read Rabbi Ozeri. “How should you pay them? Cash.  Every week ... don’t worry about this great expense, greater is this mitzvah of ... supporting the melamdim…  than the Beit Hamikdash. This mitzvah is capable of saving you from any tzara and it shall give you bracha.”

Rabbi Ozeri issued challenged everyone in attendance to find ways to provide more money to rabbeim, noting that just one year ago he spoke about the same topic and since that time, over $500,000 has been distributed to rabbeim in his community.

Rabbi Ozeri read an essay written by Rabbi Shimon Schwab who lamented that people find money to give for every segula while overlooking those who perform the greatest task of all:  educating our children.

“Is this a way to treat the greatest heroes or our generations?  We have turned them into schnorers ... It is time to wake up and smell the coffee.  Let us give up the Pesach hotel just one year and use the dollars saved to give our children’s rabbeim and morahs their due.”

Noting that in a rare interview, Paul Reichmann Z’l once said that his greatest accomplishment had been teaching Torah to children in Morocco, Rabbi Ozeri concluded with a heartfelt admonition.

“I’m begging you,” said Rabbi Ozeri. “Take care of your melamdim or the next generation is in big trouble.”

This year marks the 93rd Agudah Convention, an annual event hosted by Agudath Israel of America designed to address and discuss various issues facing the Jewish community.

Watch below the full speech:

 


More of today's headlines

Jerusalem - Israel said on Sunday its spy services were helping France investigate the Paris gun and bomb attacks, and Israeli media suggested that intelligence being... Antalya, Turkey -President Barack Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin traded views on Syria's civil war and broached the tense topic of Ukraine during an...

 

Advertisement:
Total140

Read Comments (140)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Nov 15, 2015 at 10:42 AM Ina Says:

We are living in difficult economic times. As ridiculous as this may sound, many of the melamdim are faring better than the parents whose children they teach. Give up the Pesach hotels? Now really! How many of us can afford such a luxury? .

2

 Nov 15, 2015 at 10:46 AM Godol-Hador Says:

How true

3

 Nov 15, 2015 at 10:57 AM Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe instead of looking for ways to squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families, the Agudah should set up useful and practical vocational programs for mechanchim so that they can, like many balabatim already, take on second jobs to help make ends meet and earn a respectable parnasah.

4

 Nov 15, 2015 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:

He's half right. The other half is that our chinuch system has deteriorated to where the hanhala is stuck with managing classrooms, not teaching. The way to manage, that is most effective, is by using disciplinary tactics. This results in getting children to conform and perhaps follow rules, but it accomplishes diddly squat for educating them in the beauty of Torah and mitzvos. And in the current age of bombardment of influences, the hull of the ship is cracked open so wide that we are losing the kids. We need to make chinuch an elite job, but an elite job must be done. Being a mechanech was never an easy job, but it has never been as challenging as it is today.

When mosdos are ready to increase salaries for mechanchim, they must first answer a qualifying question. Is the rebbe doing a good job? The volume of information that is retained, as appears in test scores, is an indication of good memory skills. That is unrelated to true chinuch success. Does the talmid implement the knowledge gained, and does he display a love for Torah? That is more indicative of hatzlocho. Now, pay the rebbeim better.

5

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:23 AM Crazykanoiy Says:

The demands on rabbaim keep on growing but their salaries remain stagnant. Today a Rebbi is expected to teach the subject, arange extracurricular activities and trips, connect to each student on a personal level, be a mashgiach for the child's ruchniyus, be a pseudo psychologist, and be available to talk to parents of ever increasing class size on a nightly basis and still have time for adequate prep, test making and marking. All this is also supposed to be done with a salary that is impossible to live on. That being said the point of #3 is well taken.

6

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:30 AM Aron1 Says:

Reply to #3  
Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe instead of looking for ways to squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families, the Agudah should set up useful and practical vocational programs for mechanchim so that they can, like many balabatim already, take on second jobs to help make ends meet and earn a respectable parnasah.

There is no need to "teach the melamdim a second job". Their "second job" is to spend time & effort (& money) to prepare for their "first job".
Perhaps we are paying them for their first job; the problem is that we're just not paying them for their second job.

7

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:31 AM SGMoish Says:

If every chassidish and yeshivish family has 10 kids ke'h how in the world are we supposed to pay the melamdim better?
The people with many kids usually aren't the ones who are sitting in Pesach Hotels and those that sit in Pesach hotels usually already pay their fair share plus. So the answer is either young rebeim doing their job as a beginner job and then moving on to bigger salary opportunities or start handing cash to all rebeim and grocery workers and warehouse workers and office workers (who don't qualify for foodstamps yet don't get free tuition ) and everone else. Rebeim were never paid a lot that's life somehow we managed till 2015 . Wanna make money become a doctor.

8

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Since an overwhelming majority of Yeshiva Rebbeim have been in their positions more many years, if we do increase their salaries--to the very same rebbeim who are there anyway, how does that improve the quality of the education??? While I'm not disputing they deserve decent salaries, I don't see a big attrition rate at all, even with the low salaries.

9

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Ina Says:

We are living in difficult economic times. As ridiculous as this may sound, many of the melamdim are faring better than the parents whose children they teach. Give up the Pesach hotels? Now really! How many of us can afford such a luxury? .

Are you joking?! What planet have you been living on? Check the Jewish newspapers for months before Pesach, each advertising a more Mavis and expensive program than the other, and they are all sold out every year!! Thousands and thousands of our community go to hotels every year! And this costs on average, for a family, at least $$15,000... I heard one man saying he treated his married kids and grandkids as well, and paid close to $80,000!!!! He himself could pay salaries for 2 Rebbiem!!!!

10

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Ina Says:

We are living in difficult economic times. As ridiculous as this may sound, many of the melamdim are faring better than the parents whose children they teach. Give up the Pesach hotels? Now really! How many of us can afford such a luxury? .

Well obviously he meant those who could afford and there are thousands of them

11

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:41 AM menachem32 Says:

It seems that some of the commentators here did not listen directly to the speech. He actually made clear that we can't "squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families". He talked about how difficult things were already for tuition-paying parents. Instead, he suggested, we approach the gvirim in our communities, the billionaires amongst us, to help foot the bill.

13

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

He's half right. The other half is that our chinuch system has deteriorated to where the hanhala is stuck with managing classrooms, not teaching. The way to manage, that is most effective, is by using disciplinary tactics. This results in getting children to conform and perhaps follow rules, but it accomplishes diddly squat for educating them in the beauty of Torah and mitzvos. And in the current age of bombardment of influences, the hull of the ship is cracked open so wide that we are losing the kids. We need to make chinuch an elite job, but an elite job must be done. Being a mechanech was never an easy job, but it has never been as challenging as it is today.

When mosdos are ready to increase salaries for mechanchim, they must first answer a qualifying question. Is the rebbe doing a good job? The volume of information that is retained, as appears in test scores, is an indication of good memory skills. That is unrelated to true chinuch success. Does the talmid implement the knowledge gained, and does he display a love for Torah? That is more indicative of hatzlocho. Now, pay the rebbeim better.

And what happens if and when more money is available to pay Rebbeim? Fire all the ones the now, and start again with more qualified ones? Or if not, keep the ones there now? If they're willing to stay anyway at their previous salaries? How do you propose this overhaul work?

14

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe instead of looking for ways to squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families, the Agudah should set up useful and practical vocational programs for mechanchim so that they can, like many balabatim already, take on second jobs to help make ends meet and earn a respectable parnasah.

Tuition weary? I'm disgusted by how many people I know who refuse to pay full tuition, get away with it, yet spend lavishly on designer clothes, trips, yes, Pesach hotels and other unnecessary luxuries! I believe that's outright geneiva and they will have to answer for it after 120!

15

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe instead of looking for ways to squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families, the Agudah should set up useful and practical vocational programs for mechanchim so that they can, like many balabatim already, take on second jobs to help make ends meet and earn a respectable parnasah.

You have it totally wrong, a rebbe in yeshiva should NOT have other jobs on the side they should concentrate ONLY on the holy work of educating the precious children that were entrusted to them

16

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:50 AM McDougil Says:

Reply to #1  
Ina Says:

We are living in difficult economic times. As ridiculous as this may sound, many of the melamdim are faring better than the parents whose children they teach. Give up the Pesach hotels? Now really! How many of us can afford such a luxury? .

He's obviously not talking to the 100k 6 kids families...

Theres plenty of people making 300k and above... so setting aside a few bucks for the Rebbeim is really helpful.

SIMPLE

17

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:08 PM SandmanNY Says:

Reply to #3  
Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe instead of looking for ways to squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families, the Agudah should set up useful and practical vocational programs for mechanchim so that they can, like many balabatim already, take on second jobs to help make ends meet and earn a respectable parnasah.

So I'll take issue with Trolly here. Mechanchim have three jobs in one. 1. They have to prepare. 2) They have to teach and manage simultaneously. 3) They have to grade and evaluate. This is not like showing up for work, doing a job and then going home. Chinuch is with the mechanech in and out of the classroom. Added to that is the large category of miscellaneous, which includes parent-teacher meetings, faculty and hanhalah meetings, school functions, etc. I personally looked into going back into chinuch part-time this year and I was shocked at the dismal level of pay vs. the high price levied on parents for tuition. Where is all the money going?

18

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:10 PM DanielBarbaz Says:

It has been many years since I attended Yeshiva High School. I receive a wonderful Jewish AND secular education.
I am wondering....what training do today's mehanchim get so as to insure that they are TRUE educators. Not everyone can be a teacher. A rebbe may be bright and wonderful but that does not automatically make him ( or her ) and educator.

19

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
SGMoish Says:

If every chassidish and yeshivish family has 10 kids ke'h how in the world are we supposed to pay the melamdim better?
The people with many kids usually aren't the ones who are sitting in Pesach Hotels and those that sit in Pesach hotels usually already pay their fair share plus. So the answer is either young rebeim doing their job as a beginner job and then moving on to bigger salary opportunities or start handing cash to all rebeim and grocery workers and warehouse workers and office workers (who don't qualify for foodstamps yet don't get free tuition ) and everone else. Rebeim were never paid a lot that's life somehow we managed till 2015 . Wanna make money become a doctor.

Your couldn't be more wrong. Look around in Bork park at the mansions, filled with large families B"H who are doing quite well financially, and no many are not paying their Yeshiva full tuition! Do some investigating and you'll find that very w families pay full tuition, even when they can well afford it, and yes, there are plenty of large families going away for Pesach ! Each hotel is sold out every year, charging tens of thousands to each family, the same families who cry poverty to the Yeshiva their kids attend!

20

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:18 PM Anonymous Says:

You are misquoting the rabbi! No one said you can't go to a peach hotel SO LONG AS you're also paying full tuition for your kids! It's the liars and cheaters who must be taken to task. Those who go to hotels, live nicely, yet cry poverty to the shives in order to not pay full tuition! And the gvirim who are able, should give some of their maaser money to Yeshiva to pay salaries! Do you have a guilty conscience?

21

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

And what happens if and when more money is available to pay Rebbeim? Fire all the ones the now, and start again with more qualified ones? Or if not, keep the ones there now? If they're willing to stay anyway at their previous salaries? How do you propose this overhaul work?

Anyone who is not qualified to succeed at the true job of chinuch needs another career. One may justly blame the Roshei Yeshivos and others who brainwashed them that they should default to chinuch for which they lacked the skills and which cannot sustain a family. That is against the Torah. If anyone wants, I can provide sources from Chazal that are not challengeable. Getting the cheapest rebbe is like choosing the cheapest mechanic or the cheapest doctor. You get only what you pay for. Underpaying a rebbe will not gain you someone ready to be moseir nefesh for each yochid in the class.

Yeshivos and girls schools should require training prior to being given a job other than as an apprentice. For those already working, there needs to be mandatory continuing education, as is found in almost every profession. There are programs available, but no one requires them.

No one has ever been able to complete a sentence when asked how kollel learning prepares someone to teach elementary talmidim. Our system doesn't work, and we complain but don't actually do anything to fix it.

22

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:

What about paying the English teachers? I've found that in the majority of yeshivos, the secular studies teachers are totally incompetent, many times inexperienced (my sons' Yeshiva had a 17- year old English teacher who had just graduated high school that June, teaching in a totally incompetent way! I was appalled when I saw all the misspellings she'd made on his homework sheets, etc!)! The entire system needs an overhaul, and yes while rebbeim deserve to make a decent salary, we also need competent and better paid English teachers so our children aren't being taught by illiterates and incompetents!

23

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:23 PM Hard worker Says:

Are rabbiem really paid so little? Lets do some math. Say as R ozeri mentioned starting salary is at 40K (which is not bad for starting salary) and 10 yrs later its 50k. Most rabbiem get free tution for all boys in the school they teach in. Assuming on avreage one has 3 boys thats a savings of about 15k annually. So now we are up to 65k a year. Ok now the girls get thier tution paid for via the boys school directly channeling mosny to the beis yakov and then deducting the cost from the rebbe's pay check. If there are an average of 3 girls thats a 30% savings for the rebbe. ( the savings is no tax or Social security on that money). Thats about another $5,000 saavings on 3 girls. So now a rebbe earns 70k a year. Now lets consider a rebbe's paid time off. Every rebbe has at-least 10 weeks (50 days of paid time off) . Whats is a rebbe's work hours? S- Thurs 9-3 and Friday 9-12. Thats a 33 hour work week. Ok so now you'll argue yes but a rebbe has to prepare lessons. Ok so lets say he spends an average two hours a day for five days a week (Thats very generous as I doubt a 10 yr rebbe spends that much time). Now thats 43 hours a week. To be continued.

24

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:25 PM open books Says:

First, let me make it clear. I paid full tuition as requested. At times it became clear that I felt there was some funny business going on, especially when it was not a check.
I propose that we seriously consider the advise after the involved schools agree to open all parts of their books to the parents. There should be a trusted group of parents, a committee that will be able to clearly state if they are satisfied that all members of staff, faculty and hanhalla are being paid fairly, even well but not abusively well.
Attention should be paid to insurance and other contracts to assure there is no kickback arrangement.
Leased cars should be disclosed and relatives being paid for little show or no show jobs should be considered.
A major agency serving special children contracts out the job of making annoyance calls; to the daughter of the agency head, even as she lives out of town. Should one assume there is no one qualified within the 30 million that live closer? or should one assume worse?

25

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:35 PM Hard Worker Says:

To sum it up a rebbe with 10 years expierience works 43 hours a week gets 10 weeks paid vacation and earns 70k a year.

Now lets take a typical accountant after ten years. An accountant works an average of at least 50 hours a week. During tax season its 60. He spends two hours a day traveling back & forth to work as well. He has 20 paid time off days. He also needs a collge degree and has $30,000 debt. What his pay after 10 years? About 100k.

Is the per hour salary for a rebbe so bad?????????

Oh I left out the government programs that they can often get.

Contrary to popular belief rabbiem use to get apid horrible. In europe and even after the war in the USA a melemad was a shnorish nebby job for those who couldn't do anything better. They got a poltury salary and never got paid on time. They never even dreamed of earning what rabbiem earn today.And yes todays rabbiem are much better trained and more capable of teaching.

I am not suggesting to cut a rebbe's salary. But don't cry for them either. They do OK.

26

 Nov 15, 2015 at 12:47 PM Myrak Says:

Don't yell the Rabbi down! Professionals in education give their heart and soul to the job. When they get home, they have class preparation, assignments and tests to mark and parents who call to consult with them. They do not get compensated for this extra time! Furthermore, can a Rebbi moonlight at some menial job and still command the respect from students who might see him as a delivery person or cashier or even bookkeeper some place else? There are many organizations who corner the market with their "very critical" need. They spend fortunes on advertising and promos and pull at the heart strings and raise substantial amounts. Those funds could be better and more constructively challenged to our schools and preempt the need for "repair" services later.

27

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:08 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #5  
Crazykanoiy Says:

The demands on rabbaim keep on growing but their salaries remain stagnant. Today a Rebbi is expected to teach the subject, arange extracurricular activities and trips, connect to each student on a personal level, be a mashgiach for the child's ruchniyus, be a pseudo psychologist, and be available to talk to parents of ever increasing class size on a nightly basis and still have time for adequate prep, test making and marking. All this is also supposed to be done with a salary that is impossible to live on. That being said the point of #3 is well taken.

If you understand how much time,blood and sweat go into trying to effectively be mechanech our children,how can you also agree with number 3? Im sure the Rav isn't speaking about families who TRULY struggle to make ends meet but of those who by the 3000 shaitels,go on Pesach retreats etc. I'm in chinuch and the first new shaitel I bought in years cost $200 and I always have to rely on Chesed organizations to pay for Yom Tov.

28

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:10 PM Insider Says:

Reply to #3  
Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe instead of looking for ways to squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families, the Agudah should set up useful and practical vocational programs for mechanchim so that they can, like many balabatim already, take on second jobs to help make ends meet and earn a respectable parnasah.

What ?!! Our precious Melmadim should, according to your 'practical' recommendation, take vocational training programs so that they can attain skills to assume second jobs in order to support their families? Their 'second' jobs must be learning more Torah so that they would transfuse more Torah into our precious children. Your recommendation reduces the professionalism and Kedusha of Melamdim to that of factory workers. Please forgive me, but your thoughts reveal a depreciation of Torah and Chinuch. I would go on but I fear lapsing into insulting language.

29

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:10 PM fat36 Says:

How about first stopping the madness of פורים baskets for $100 $200 dishes in side are 90% of these expensive baskets those type of people throw it out anyways no one eats all that junk so we spend that kind of money that we have the holiday of Passover which cost a fortune

30

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:15 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

And what happens if and when more money is available to pay Rebbeim? Fire all the ones the now, and start again with more qualified ones? Or if not, keep the ones there now? If they're willing to stay anyway at their previous salaries? How do you propose this overhaul work?

The truth is nepotism is much of what's really killing our schools. Just because someone's a son,son-in- law etc doesn't mean they have an inkling about chinuch or how to run a moisad!!! I've to many disasters mamish!

31

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Tuition weary? I'm disgusted by how many people I know who refuse to pay full tuition, get away with it, yet spend lavishly on designer clothes, trips, yes, Pesach hotels and other unnecessary luxuries! I believe that's outright geneiva and they will have to answer for it after 120!

1000% correct. There are so many parents that cheat on their taxes and cry poverty when it comes to paying tuition.

They drive luxury cars, renovate expensive kitchens and go on expensive trips.

32

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Pay them more for teaching less? These kids can't read, write or add 2 + 2 and yet you want us to pay more?

33

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:39 PM FBF37 Says:

I watched the speech last night so I am going on memory here.
1. He said give up one year of going to a hotel for Pesach. Even this was simply an example in case you were wondering where the money would come from.
2. Can we all agree that Rabbeim are not getting paid enough!? 40K to start out is a joke. 60K after 10 years is a bigger joke.
3. His point was if we do not pay the Rabbeim more the good Rabbeim who can make it anywhere (as an accountant, social worker etc..) will leave and our children will be left with not the best Rabbeim possibly. He gave two examples of Rabbeim who he knows who left in the past year since they need to support their families
4. He said he gave a similar speech within the year to his community and 500K came into the fund to support the Rabbeim.
5. He is trying to say there are funds for every gemach etc... (I would say ohel, rccs, chai lefeline, bonei olam) why not one for the Rabbeim??
6. He also correctly pointed out all the good morah's are not going into teaching since THEY need to make more money to support their husbands.... So this is a domino effect of the situation......

34

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:40 PM common-sense Says:

So your luxuries are more important than paying Rebbeim or other needs. The fact that you give Tzedoko to the extent that the Torah requires does not give you the right to ignore communal needs.

What Rabbi Ozeri said is not novel. Gedolim have warned us time and time again that luxuries are forbidden. This includes hotels for Pesach, where fortunes are spent. Yes, your wife is entitled to a break, but that doesn't mean that a fortune as to be spent on hotels.

35

 Nov 15, 2015 at 01:49 PM FBF37 Says:

...One simple but people will disagree thought to help the situation. I have always said that the Kollel system will hurt more than help the charedei system. Who does the Kollel system hurt most?? Not me the working guy. It sort of hurts me very slightly indirectly. So no big deal on my end. So who does it hurt?? It hurts the person who REALLY belongs in Kollel!! The person who will write a sefer, become a Rebbei, A Rav etc.... The community needs to support these people!! Problem is the Kollel system which many people are now part of b/c of peer pressuer etc... is taking money out of the hands of the people who really need it.

So yes the community is supporting Torah. However you can say 50% of it are going to people who don't belong in Kollel who can support themselves!! We need to prioritize where the money goes to!

Just think a simple young couple, no kids still needs almost 30K to survive. If the parents give them just 15K a year it's still a lot of money. Times that by x amount of kids in the family, and that money could be going to support Rabbeim. Plus now with Adopt a Kollel which is all nice and dandy but it hurts our Rabbeim here in America.

36

 Nov 15, 2015 at 02:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Hard worker Says:

Are rabbiem really paid so little? Lets do some math. Say as R ozeri mentioned starting salary is at 40K (which is not bad for starting salary) and 10 yrs later its 50k. Most rabbiem get free tution for all boys in the school they teach in. Assuming on avreage one has 3 boys thats a savings of about 15k annually. So now we are up to 65k a year. Ok now the girls get thier tution paid for via the boys school directly channeling mosny to the beis yakov and then deducting the cost from the rebbe's pay check. If there are an average of 3 girls thats a 30% savings for the rebbe. ( the savings is no tax or Social security on that money). Thats about another $5,000 saavings on 3 girls. So now a rebbe earns 70k a year. Now lets consider a rebbe's paid time off. Every rebbe has at-least 10 weeks (50 days of paid time off) . Whats is a rebbe's work hours? S- Thurs 9-3 and Friday 9-12. Thats a 33 hour work week. Ok so now you'll argue yes but a rebbe has to prepare lessons. Ok so lets say he spends an average two hours a day for five days a week (Thats very generous as I doubt a 10 yr rebbe spends that much time). Now thats 43 hours a week. To be continued.

I had a roommate who went into elementary education. I can tell you that your estimate of 2 hours prep time per day is ridiculously low. Does this include tasks like checking homework and grading tests? How about staff meetings or meetings with parents? Or following up with parents because their child isn't doing as well as he/she could be? From what I remember, my friend spent a good 3-4 hours a day, 6 days a week on these tasks. These hours were not included in the paycheck, but they were expected of all teachers.

The fact that you don't pay tuition at a school is not the same as income. The rebbaim still need to pay rent/mortgage, transportation, food, clothing.

One last point, many schools do not pay based on a 12-month period; they only pay for the months school is in session (Aug/Sept - Jun). Those months during the summer months are usually not paid.

37

 Nov 15, 2015 at 02:25 PM Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe agudah needs to lead by example :
Maybe they need to forgo the annual convention and put that all that money toward mechanchim salaries.
Or forgo it's lobbying efforts on political causes that they know they can't win (like gay marriage)
Not only will they save literally millions of dollars, but we will all learn from their example and efforts

38

 Nov 15, 2015 at 02:37 PM Anonymous Says:

I am not a Pesach hotel patron. Never tried it, and have no desire. In theory, I do not support it. Pesach is time to be home with family, however extensive it may be. My personal feeling about "mishing" is negative. I do not do it, and i do not advocate it. Had I been less informed, I would jump to support Rabbi Ozeri, to abandon the expensive Pesach hotels, and to use that money to fund chinuch. But I have connected to many situations of others who do go to hotels, and I learned that this is not a one sided issue.

There are families that are unable to house their family members who come from far and wide, and hotels are the only option. As well, there are families who cannot afford to make Pesach themselves, whether for physical or financial reasons, and they are sponsored at hotels. I am aware of a family that was experiencing substantial issues with shalom bayis, and they used the environment to successfully reconnect and create the bonds that healed the family. Perhaps it is a luxury for some. But for others, it is a necessity. For those, it is no more justified to tell them to eliminate this expense than it is to tell them to stop paying electric & gas bills.

39

 Nov 15, 2015 at 02:49 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

I had a roommate who went into elementary education. I can tell you that your estimate of 2 hours prep time per day is ridiculously low. Does this include tasks like checking homework and grading tests? How about staff meetings or meetings with parents? Or following up with parents because their child isn't doing as well as he/she could be? From what I remember, my friend spent a good 3-4 hours a day, 6 days a week on these tasks. These hours were not included in the paycheck, but they were expected of all teachers.

The fact that you don't pay tuition at a school is not the same as income. The rebbaim still need to pay rent/mortgage, transportation, food, clothing.

One last point, many schools do not pay based on a 12-month period; they only pay for the months school is in session (Aug/Sept - Jun). Those months during the summer months are usually not paid.

And one more thing. Morahs are paid far below what Rebbes are and this needs to change!!!!!

40

 Nov 15, 2015 at 03:12 PM A real rebbi Says:

I am a real rebbi here teaching in brooklyn ny, i teach in a very well known mossad
Internet access is something i do not have at home , however my second income nerds it so in my cubicle that i rent i have a computer my sister in in the midwest sent me this link and i think i have to respond .
Number one rabbeim DO NOT get free tuition even if children are in same school
Yeshivos are so strapped for cash there is no way they can do that.
#2 the meager salary that a rebbe earns usually warrents a second job
Most take on teaching english in the afternoon
Does anyone here know how demeaning of a job that is? Do YOU have any idea how YOUR child behaves in the afternoon?!
Do know what this does to a mentally and physically what effect it has on his viewing of yiddish kids ? Do you realize that we are slaughtering rabbeim over tiny salaries most rabbeim are altruistic in the begining but then they buckle like crazy .
Once a year we make dome public demeaning campaign that gives discounted food to rabbeimim turning them into TZEDAKA cases! You want their good PAY THEM!!!
Ugh discusting just pay them a normal salary!!!
Parents are having a hard time paying tuition but there are literally billions out there being had by others let them help and all the charlatans promising segulas for money
Lets stop this . The fact is 100 % of parents do not want to be educators and are hsppy thst other people are doing the "DIRTY WORK" so at least help them out .some wealthy people think its ludicrous to pay a rebbe $ 100,000 a year but yet their suits cost $3,000. Cars over $1000. A month Or their challah boards on the shabbos table can cost in excess of $5,000 thats ok but helping a rebbe ? nah ! These people are the boards of Our yeshivas!!! Enjoy your money but at least help out we are FIXING YOUR MISTAKES AND ISSUES DONT FORGET THAT!!
In conclusion if we realize the importance of a rebbis job

41

 Nov 15, 2015 at 03:12 PM MayerAlter Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

You are misquoting the rabbi! No one said you can't go to a peach hotel SO LONG AS you're also paying full tuition for your kids! It's the liars and cheaters who must be taken to task. Those who go to hotels, live nicely, yet cry poverty to the shives in order to not pay full tuition! And the gvirim who are able, should give some of their maaser money to Yeshiva to pay salaries! Do you have a guilty conscience?

No, I certainly don't. As I said I pay all the tuition I am asked for and I give the tzdokka I am mandated by the Torah to give plus some. And unless the article is wrong I didn't misquote the good Rabbi. The article says " Let us give up the Pesach hotel" Seems pretty clear to me. Rabbi Ozeri, jump off the bandwagon of being everyone's conscience and boss. Maybe people should give up the sumptuous gashmiusdik experience of the Aguda Convention. How much was the cheapest room at the convention and how much was paid to bring in all the honored guests? Do the Rosh Yeshivas, Dayonim, Rabbonim and Admorim feel the Aguda Convention is so important that they pay their own way? Stop dreaming. How many mechanchim's salaries could all that of paid for. I believe a Shabbos place at the convention was more than Shabbos away last Pesach.

42

 Nov 15, 2015 at 03:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
common-sense Says:

So your luxuries are more important than paying Rebbeim or other needs. The fact that you give Tzedoko to the extent that the Torah requires does not give you the right to ignore communal needs.

What Rabbi Ozeri said is not novel. Gedolim have warned us time and time again that luxuries are forbidden. This includes hotels for Pesach, where fortunes are spent. Yes, your wife is entitled to a break, but that doesn't mean that a fortune as to be spent on hotels.

No, I said "I give the tzdokka I am mandated by the Torah to give plus some" The plus some is more than the Torah obligates me. I support many tzedokkas, I do not ignore communal needs but I object to being told what to do with the money left over; simple as that.

43

 Nov 15, 2015 at 03:22 PM Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Reply to #37  
Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe agudah needs to lead by example :
Maybe they need to forgo the annual convention and put that all that money toward mechanchim salaries.
Or forgo it's lobbying efforts on political causes that they know they can't win (like gay marriage)
Not only will they save literally millions of dollars, but we will all learn from their example and efforts

Better yet, all mosdos should cancel all their galas, Chinese Auctions, Soirees, and the like for one year, and forward all that saved money on to Mechanchim. Does every organization really need to throw a lavish event every year. Even if all the costs are donated, forward that food, catering, music, flowers, and halls etc. on to mechanchim (they can use them for discounted simchas)

44

 Nov 15, 2015 at 03:24 PM mewhoze Says:

why not take everything into consideration?
there is talk about luxury vacations and luxury cars. what about the custom human hair wigs? what about going into the jewelry stores in bp and having to wait a half hour for someone to help you coz they are so busy especially around yom tov time? the chandeliers, the giant silver menorahs and silver esrog boxes?

45

 Nov 15, 2015 at 03:38 PM RamapoJew Says:

Has anyone considered that the real reason the teachers are not paid enough is that a significant amount of the frum men have no formal parnasah training. Maybe the Agudah should focus on getting every single bocher serious parnasah training. No one is paying a ex-kollel guy anywhere near the 200-250k that must be earned to pay full tuition for a family with 5 children. Its really simple, every adult male takes his parnassah seriously - gets trained and pays full tuition. If everyone pays full tuition we can pay the rebaim what they are worth. it might also be a good idea to get the rebaim themselves real training - those with degrees make more money. Its really simple if we are willing to wake up

46

 Nov 15, 2015 at 03:58 PM Hard Worker Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

I had a roommate who went into elementary education. I can tell you that your estimate of 2 hours prep time per day is ridiculously low. Does this include tasks like checking homework and grading tests? How about staff meetings or meetings with parents? Or following up with parents because their child isn't doing as well as he/she could be? From what I remember, my friend spent a good 3-4 hours a day, 6 days a week on these tasks. These hours were not included in the paycheck, but they were expected of all teachers.

The fact that you don't pay tuition at a school is not the same as income. The rebbaim still need to pay rent/mortgage, transportation, food, clothing.

One last point, many schools do not pay based on a 12-month period; they only pay for the months school is in session (Aug/Sept - Jun). Those months during the summer months are usually not paid.

Re your roommate. A first year rebbe works hard till he puts together his curriculum. After that its not more than two hours a day. I daven in a shul with many rabbiem. They have chavursas all afternoon and night seder. They do not spend more than two hours prep daily. Ye si see them mark exams some times. But its not more than two hours. I think if you took a poll you would see most rabbiem don't sepnd more than two hours on average, And yes I can safely include two hours sepnt calling parents or the twice a year that there is PTA.
Re "The fact that you don't pay tuition at a school is not the same as income."
Why not sure thats income. In fact its better than income since its not taxable. I pay tuiton. i don't get free tuition.
Re"many schools do not pay based on a 12-month period;"
So what? Bottom line is whats their annual income? If they earn 50K I don't care when they are paid that 50k. Bottom line is they only have to work 10 months a year. But you did remind me that i left out something. Many get a summer job in the catskills. They get free day camp, free bungalow and often free food for the summer. Thats a very nice pay

47

 Nov 15, 2015 at 04:04 PM Hard Worker Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

I had a roommate who went into elementary education. I can tell you that your estimate of 2 hours prep time per day is ridiculously low. Does this include tasks like checking homework and grading tests? How about staff meetings or meetings with parents? Or following up with parents because their child isn't doing as well as he/she could be? From what I remember, my friend spent a good 3-4 hours a day, 6 days a week on these tasks. These hours were not included in the paycheck, but they were expected of all teachers.

The fact that you don't pay tuition at a school is not the same as income. The rebbaim still need to pay rent/mortgage, transportation, food, clothing.

One last point, many schools do not pay based on a 12-month period; they only pay for the months school is in session (Aug/Sept - Jun). Those months during the summer months are usually not paid.

Why don't the rabbonim tell the rich askanim that the frum yidden they hire as accountants struggle to make ends meat while the big bosses go to fancy hotels for pesach. We bring in your money but earn meager salaries. We often work for free. After all we are right out of college and the askanim are doing us a favor by giving us a free job while our family starves. Yes in laws of economics its called supply & demand so we must take that free job or nothing. But what about the laws of the torah to treat your workers fairly???
For some reason I think the rabbonim are fixated on rabbiem primarly.

48

 Nov 15, 2015 at 04:08 PM RamapoJew Says:

Reply to #40  
A real rebbi Says:

I am a real rebbi here teaching in brooklyn ny, i teach in a very well known mossad
Internet access is something i do not have at home , however my second income nerds it so in my cubicle that i rent i have a computer my sister in in the midwest sent me this link and i think i have to respond .
Number one rabbeim DO NOT get free tuition even if children are in same school
Yeshivos are so strapped for cash there is no way they can do that.
#2 the meager salary that a rebbe earns usually warrents a second job
Most take on teaching english in the afternoon
Does anyone here know how demeaning of a job that is? Do YOU have any idea how YOUR child behaves in the afternoon?!
Do know what this does to a mentally and physically what effect it has on his viewing of yiddish kids ? Do you realize that we are slaughtering rabbeim over tiny salaries most rabbeim are altruistic in the begining but then they buckle like crazy .
Once a year we make dome public demeaning campaign that gives discounted food to rabbeimim turning them into TZEDAKA cases! You want their good PAY THEM!!!
Ugh discusting just pay them a normal salary!!!
Parents are having a hard time paying tuition but there are literally billions out there being had by others let them help and all the charlatans promising segulas for money
Lets stop this . The fact is 100 % of parents do not want to be educators and are hsppy thst other people are doing the "DIRTY WORK" so at least help them out .some wealthy people think its ludicrous to pay a rebbe $ 100,000 a year but yet their suits cost $3,000. Cars over $1000. A month Or their challah boards on the shabbos table can cost in excess of $5,000 thats ok but helping a rebbe ? nah ! These people are the boards of Our yeshivas!!! Enjoy your money but at least help out we are FIXING YOUR MISTAKES AND ISSUES DONT FORGET THAT!!
In conclusion if we realize the importance of a rebbis job

Can I ask you what formal training do you have for being a Rebbi and teacher. Do you have a degree? If not, what makes you think you are worth more money. Do you pay the electrician more money so he can pay his tuition or do pay people what they are worth?

49

 Nov 15, 2015 at 04:08 PM Chaim Elchonon Says:

#41 is not from me [the writer of #12]. Mayer Alter, whoever he [or she] is, is pretending here. Neither is #42. I said my piece once and that is enough.

50

 Nov 15, 2015 at 04:29 PM cool masmid Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Well obviously he meant those who could afford and there are thousands of them

I guess a lot of you didn't listen to what he actually said. He very clearly said we cannot ask parents who already are choking from the burden of paying tuition but we need the wealthy among us to step up to the plate and realize what a responsibility and a zechus it is to help support this generation's rabbeim who are educating the future generation. He was not in any way asking parents to pay more.

51

 Nov 15, 2015 at 04:30 PM RebKlemson Says:

to be honest, I'm not sure what to say here. the community grew and the problems grew with it. such tremendous problems with no easy solution and the blame shifts back and forth to both sides. I have no answer. but everyone can agree on the luxury spending that has gotten out of hand. kosher cruises, pesach hotel getaways, summers in the mountains, succot in eretz yisrael, january to miami, so let's get real about that. it is excessive. everyone deserves a break, but not 5 breaks. i'm not even saying to give all that money to tzedaka instead! but a fraction of it could really help someone!

52

 Nov 15, 2015 at 04:44 PM cool masmid Says:

Reply to #35  
FBF37 Says:

...One simple but people will disagree thought to help the situation. I have always said that the Kollel system will hurt more than help the charedei system. Who does the Kollel system hurt most?? Not me the working guy. It sort of hurts me very slightly indirectly. So no big deal on my end. So who does it hurt?? It hurts the person who REALLY belongs in Kollel!! The person who will write a sefer, become a Rebbei, A Rav etc.... The community needs to support these people!! Problem is the Kollel system which many people are now part of b/c of peer pressuer etc... is taking money out of the hands of the people who really need it.

So yes the community is supporting Torah. However you can say 50% of it are going to people who don't belong in Kollel who can support themselves!! We need to prioritize where the money goes to!

Just think a simple young couple, no kids still needs almost 30K to survive. If the parents give them just 15K a year it's still a lot of money. Times that by x amount of kids in the family, and that money could be going to support Rabbeim. Plus now with Adopt a Kollel which is all nice and dandy but it hurts our Rabbeim here in America.

You come across as a big shot who has an ax to grind with yungerleit sitting and learning in kollel. Could be it's because you never made it through yeshiva as such you have this animosity towards Torah as a result but just know one thing; you have parnassa because of the Torah that's being learned in yeshiva and kollelim today across this country and all over the globe(in spite of people who hate it) So before you are in such a hurry to put down kollelim and their yungerleit realize all that you have is only because of them. And btw it's not my chiddush.

53

 Nov 15, 2015 at 05:00 PM circle Says:

This was the most exquisite and marvelous speech I heard in a long time.
Beautiful.

54

 Nov 15, 2015 at 05:02 PM Just sayin Says:

So many trolls commenting today! Anyway it's pretty clear that Rebbeim should be paid more! Period. I'm just not sure how he plans on implementing it. By saying a speech, people shake their heads and say yes, yes, he's right! But that's about it. Does the Rav have any ideas as to to how to get people to have more chashevus for those involved in the holy work of chinuch? Moreover for every Rebbe job available you have many applicants. This in turn causes a higher supply than the demand. Which in turn means they can pay whatever they want.

55

 Nov 15, 2015 at 05:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Ina Says:

We are living in difficult economic times. As ridiculous as this may sound, many of the melamdim are faring better than the parents whose children they teach. Give up the Pesach hotels? Now really! How many of us can afford such a luxury? .

I disagree that we are living in difficult economic times, and I think it depends on where you live. I live in Teaneck. My goodness. People are knocking down perfectly good houses just to rebuild bigger ones. People are moving out of perfectly good houses to live in what they perceive as better ones. Everyone wants things just for their specific likes. Everyone is very entitled. And when I say everyone, I'm sorry to say that I do mean just about 85% of the community. Modern Orthodox Jews are very, very successful. Some of them have worked for it, many others were handed it on a silver spoon. The money they spend on homes could go toward scholarships for schools and camps for those less fortunate. What would these people get for that? Tax breaks. And knowing that they are giving tzedakah to their neighbors. But that is not public enough. It makes people feel more important when their names are placed on lists of people who donate or when they attend expensive dinners.
Orthodox Jews are NOT living in difficult economic times.

56

 Nov 15, 2015 at 05:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Trolly_McTrollerston Says:

Maybe instead of looking for ways to squeeze out even more funds from already tuition-weary families, the Agudah should set up useful and practical vocational programs for mechanchim so that they can, like many balabatim already, take on second jobs to help make ends meet and earn a respectable parnasah.

Mechanchim do work second jobs. Many work in camps in the summer. Many tutor.

57

 Nov 15, 2015 at 05:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

He's half right. The other half is that our chinuch system has deteriorated to where the hanhala is stuck with managing classrooms, not teaching. The way to manage, that is most effective, is by using disciplinary tactics. This results in getting children to conform and perhaps follow rules, but it accomplishes diddly squat for educating them in the beauty of Torah and mitzvos. And in the current age of bombardment of influences, the hull of the ship is cracked open so wide that we are losing the kids. We need to make chinuch an elite job, but an elite job must be done. Being a mechanech was never an easy job, but it has never been as challenging as it is today.

When mosdos are ready to increase salaries for mechanchim, they must first answer a qualifying question. Is the rebbe doing a good job? The volume of information that is retained, as appears in test scores, is an indication of good memory skills. That is unrelated to true chinuch success. Does the talmid implement the knowledge gained, and does he display a love for Torah? That is more indicative of hatzlocho. Now, pay the rebbeim better.

Parents need to inculcate into their children that education is important. Even if they don't like the subject matter, they have to be respectful of the teacher. There is a true lack of a quest for knowledge. A mechanech told me that he heard a child say: "Only goyim and zaidies work." If this is the attitude, a Rebbi or secular teacher can stand on their heads and do somersaults, children will not learn. Children would rather play than learn and it is up to parents to send their children to school with the message that getting an education is important.

58

 Nov 15, 2015 at 05:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Crazykanoiy Says:

The demands on rabbaim keep on growing but their salaries remain stagnant. Today a Rebbi is expected to teach the subject, arange extracurricular activities and trips, connect to each student on a personal level, be a mashgiach for the child's ruchniyus, be a pseudo psychologist, and be available to talk to parents of ever increasing class size on a nightly basis and still have time for adequate prep, test making and marking. All this is also supposed to be done with a salary that is impossible to live on. That being said the point of #3 is well taken.

No, the point of #3 is not well taken. Many teachers work in camps in the summer and/or tutor.

59

 Nov 15, 2015 at 05:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Aron1 Says:

There is no need to "teach the melamdim a second job". Their "second job" is to spend time & effort (& money) to prepare for their "first job".
Perhaps we are paying them for their first job; the problem is that we're just not paying them for their second job.

Yep, you have it right! It's Sunday night. I'm about to go look over my plans, then go plan with my co-teacher for about an hour and then plan tomorrow with her again for 1 1/2 hours.
Then during the week it's at least an hour a night getting books from the library, looking for more resources and going back to the plans depending on what we accomplished that day.

60

 Nov 15, 2015 at 06:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
A real rebbi Says:

I am a real rebbi here teaching in brooklyn ny, i teach in a very well known mossad
Internet access is something i do not have at home , however my second income nerds it so in my cubicle that i rent i have a computer my sister in in the midwest sent me this link and i think i have to respond .
Number one rabbeim DO NOT get free tuition even if children are in same school
Yeshivos are so strapped for cash there is no way they can do that.
#2 the meager salary that a rebbe earns usually warrents a second job
Most take on teaching english in the afternoon
Does anyone here know how demeaning of a job that is? Do YOU have any idea how YOUR child behaves in the afternoon?!
Do know what this does to a mentally and physically what effect it has on his viewing of yiddish kids ? Do you realize that we are slaughtering rabbeim over tiny salaries most rabbeim are altruistic in the begining but then they buckle like crazy .
Once a year we make dome public demeaning campaign that gives discounted food to rabbeimim turning them into TZEDAKA cases! You want their good PAY THEM!!!
Ugh discusting just pay them a normal salary!!!
Parents are having a hard time paying tuition but there are literally billions out there being had by others let them help and all the charlatans promising segulas for money
Lets stop this . The fact is 100 % of parents do not want to be educators and are hsppy thst other people are doing the "DIRTY WORK" so at least help them out .some wealthy people think its ludicrous to pay a rebbe $ 100,000 a year but yet their suits cost $3,000. Cars over $1000. A month Or their challah boards on the shabbos table can cost in excess of $5,000 thats ok but helping a rebbe ? nah ! These people are the boards of Our yeshivas!!! Enjoy your money but at least help out we are FIXING YOUR MISTAKES AND ISSUES DONT FORGET THAT!!
In conclusion if we realize the importance of a rebbis job

My husband is one of the secular teachers you talk about. He is an excellent teacher. But the students are terrible. They are demeaning toward him. He walks in every single day with lesson plans. He thinks about how he will encourage them to want to learn. He is creative. But it doesn't matter. Because they have been taught that a secular education is not important.
Parents are to blame for this. And in a sense, so is the whole right wing orthodox educational system. They have secular studies teachers so that they can get government money, but they don't enforce that the students have to learn secular studies.
What a waste of a talented teacher and the students' money. And what an embarrassment to the Yeshivish community.

61

 Nov 15, 2015 at 06:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
MayerAlter Says:

No, I certainly don't. As I said I pay all the tuition I am asked for and I give the tzdokka I am mandated by the Torah to give plus some. And unless the article is wrong I didn't misquote the good Rabbi. The article says " Let us give up the Pesach hotel" Seems pretty clear to me. Rabbi Ozeri, jump off the bandwagon of being everyone's conscience and boss. Maybe people should give up the sumptuous gashmiusdik experience of the Aguda Convention. How much was the cheapest room at the convention and how much was paid to bring in all the honored guests? Do the Rosh Yeshivas, Dayonim, Rabbonim and Admorim feel the Aguda Convention is so important that they pay their own way? Stop dreaming. How many mechanchim's salaries could all that of paid for. I believe a Shabbos place at the convention was more than Shabbos away last Pesach.

How about treating a Rebbi and his family to a Pesach hotel for a year? Better yet, how about treating a secular teacher's family?

62

 Nov 15, 2015 at 06:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
RebKlemson Says:

to be honest, I'm not sure what to say here. the community grew and the problems grew with it. such tremendous problems with no easy solution and the blame shifts back and forth to both sides. I have no answer. but everyone can agree on the luxury spending that has gotten out of hand. kosher cruises, pesach hotel getaways, summers in the mountains, succot in eretz yisrael, january to miami, so let's get real about that. it is excessive. everyone deserves a break, but not 5 breaks. i'm not even saying to give all that money to tzedaka instead! but a fraction of it could really help someone!

You know, if it was just the parents going on these vacations, it might not be so bad. But you've got 5 year olds going on cruises and talking about hot tubs. It's really disgusting. If parents work hard and want/need to go away fine. But leave the childen with their grandparents. Their grandparents will love it and their children will not be so entitled at such a young age.

63

 Nov 15, 2015 at 06:07 PM mewhoze Says:

I look forward to seeing the ads for pesach in the Jewish papers. they always show you who the scholar in residence is, various speakers etc.
will prob find some of the rabbis that feel the same as the rabbi from agudah stated...cancel your pesach hotel trip, yet they are going!!
HA!!

64

 Nov 15, 2015 at 06:10 PM RamapoJew Says:

I find it interesting that teachers and rebbeim working 2-3 hours a day to prepare and mark tests/homework means they are working harder than the rest of the community. I have news for you - those of us who have jobs out in the real world don't stop working after 40 hours a week. We work 50-60 hours a week on a regular basis. Making sufficient parnassah to support a frum family means working nights, weekends, on vacations, on chol hammed, on eruv yom tov, on motzei yom tov, on fast days, on purim, and in Tisha Baav. While rebbeim and teachers work hard they have it easier than the rest of us. That's the choice they made and they get paid accordingly.

65

 Nov 15, 2015 at 06:56 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

I disagree that we are living in difficult economic times, and I think it depends on where you live. I live in Teaneck. My goodness. People are knocking down perfectly good houses just to rebuild bigger ones. People are moving out of perfectly good houses to live in what they perceive as better ones. Everyone wants things just for their specific likes. Everyone is very entitled. And when I say everyone, I'm sorry to say that I do mean just about 85% of the community. Modern Orthodox Jews are very, very successful. Some of them have worked for it, many others were handed it on a silver spoon. The money they spend on homes could go toward scholarships for schools and camps for those less fortunate. What would these people get for that? Tax breaks. And knowing that they are giving tzedakah to their neighbors. But that is not public enough. It makes people feel more important when their names are placed on lists of people who donate or when they attend expensive dinners.
Orthodox Jews are NOT living in difficult economic times.

I am very happy for you and all those who have everything they need. I can tell you that I do not and I know many who are just like me. There is much that needs to be done. I have always said Judaism is not a democracy and people should not be throwing money at whatever tugs at their heart strings. There is x amount of funds for x amount of need. There has to be a better way to fill the needs of our community. However, just to mention it brings outrage from the camp of the haves.

66

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:02 PM Yitzchok Says:

Are we talking about all Raabeim? What about the rebbe's that teach in fancy schools, manhattan, LI, NJ, are they also struggling? The answer is: we must educate our children so that they can make a good enough living so that this doesn't continue to be a problem in 10-15-20 years. Until then, the people with money in the community need to support the schools, if they don't, then call them out on it, don't give the alyos in shull, and yell at them when you see them.

67

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:02 PM Anonymous Says:

if we want to stop the tuition crisis while at the same time pay the rebeiim a livable waqe is to open yeshivas that are not privately owned but belong to the klal. Today many yeshivas in Brooklyn are family owned and the yeshiva is nothing more than a private business. Instead of providing decent wages to the rebeiim these families are stuffing their pockets. The board of directors of yeshivas should not be the richest people but rather should be made up of the regular hamoin aam that can understand that tuition is way overpriced considering that so many of our kids are illiterate.
Today the the divide in klal yisroel between the rich and the poor is greater than ever. Today we have not millionaires but billionaires among us who instead of distributing the wealth that hashem has bestowed among them they are hoarding the money for their future generations. I venture to say that in the frum community today we have between 15-20 billionaires and numerous multi multi millionaires. If you do the math their should be no aniyos in klal yisroel . If these big shots would act like Reichman or Rothchild instead of the meisers many really are we
would have no need for such speeches.

68

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:05 PM CommonSense Says:

Why are you getting so defensive?

He just posited that he thinks that if rebbeim aren't going to be paid more then the next generation is in trouble.
You can either choose to have your own opinion on the matter or not give a darn about the next generation....no one is forcing you to do anything.

69

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:27 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #48  
RamapoJew Says:

Can I ask you what formal training do you have for being a Rebbi and teacher. Do you have a degree? If not, what makes you think you are worth more money. Do you pay the electrician more money so he can pay his tuition or do pay people what they are worth?

If you have a good rebbe or morah,they give their heart and soul to your child and they spend significantly more time with your child then you do. No offense to electricians but there's no comparison

70

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:29 PM Shmedrick36 Says:

with all due respect , you may be compared to a dog. one who desecrates the words of a talmid chochom is considerd a coifer baikar check the sefer chofetz chaim. besides, maybe u don't have kids but id you do i feel bad for their rabbeim after hearing what you have to say about them. you mammash don't give a darn.

71

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:30 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #51  
RebKlemson Says:

to be honest, I'm not sure what to say here. the community grew and the problems grew with it. such tremendous problems with no easy solution and the blame shifts back and forth to both sides. I have no answer. but everyone can agree on the luxury spending that has gotten out of hand. kosher cruises, pesach hotel getaways, summers in the mountains, succot in eretz yisrael, january to miami, so let's get real about that. it is excessive. everyone deserves a break, but not 5 breaks. i'm not even saying to give all that money to tzedaka instead! but a fraction of it could really help someone!

With all this emphasis on gashmius,with keeping up with what every else has and spends on chasanas etc,is it any wonder we have so many children frieing out?

72

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #53  
circle Says:

This was the most exquisite and marvelous speech I heard in a long time.
Beautiful.

Yes it was very charasimatic but pure nonsense.

73

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

Yep, you have it right! It's Sunday night. I'm about to go look over my plans, then go plan with my co-teacher for about an hour and then plan tomorrow with her again for 1 1/2 hours.
Then during the week it's at least an hour a night getting books from the library, looking for more resources and going back to the plans depending on what we accomplished that day.

Nebach at -least an hour prep a day when all a rebbe works is 6 hours a day with 10 weeks off.

74

 Nov 15, 2015 at 07:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Let the market decide what these rabbeim working in chinuch should get paid. A good rebbe will be in high demand and make a good parnassah. The reason why many of these rabbeim don't earn much money is because they are not really effective melamdim but have ended up in chinuch because they have no other skills and have useful role in the heimeshe tzibur. We allow the market to set the value of services a plumber can charge. If a faucet he installs starts leaking within a few days, the word will go out he is a lousy plumber and may end up fixing broken pipes a the mikvah if he is really lucky . Likewise, a rebellah is providing a service and good ones will make a good parnasah and bad ones should earn bupkis because thats what they are worth.

75

 Nov 15, 2015 at 08:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #54  
Just sayin Says:

So many trolls commenting today! Anyway it's pretty clear that Rebbeim should be paid more! Period. I'm just not sure how he plans on implementing it. By saying a speech, people shake their heads and say yes, yes, he's right! But that's about it. Does the Rav have any ideas as to to how to get people to have more chashevus for those involved in the holy work of chinuch? Moreover for every Rebbe job available you have many applicants. This in turn causes a higher supply than the demand. Which in turn means they can pay whatever they want.

There are more and more rebbes flooding the market for each vacancy and most of them have little, if any, formal preparation in chinuch. They are simply kollel graduates whose circumstances finally forced them out from behind a shtender to support their own families and being a rebbe at some cheder or yeshiva is their only option.

76

 Nov 15, 2015 at 08:17 PM ayinglefunadorf Says:

Maybe we should pay less for the Rebeim or nothing at all. A Hatzoloh member works for FREE and does a much better job than most EMT with 80.000 salaries. Many Kolel guys might gladly take a job in Chinuch for FREE. If the Father/Scweer pays him to sit in Kolel for life they might be Happy to pay even more if they actually do some Real work in Chinuch. Unpaid volunteers, Hatzoloh memebers, Bikur Cholim etc usually do a better job than paid ones. Interesting that we have thousand and thousand of Kolel Yungeleit getting paid a small fraction than Rebbes and they are OK somehow. Maybe they are devoted to their lifestyle.

77

 Nov 15, 2015 at 08:27 PM PaulinSaudi Says:

I have no idea. But I suppose looking at the numbers will provide an answer. How much do these teachers make? How does that compare to secular teachers elsewhere? How does that compare to other local jobs?

Without seeing the numbers, we are just guessing.

78

 Nov 15, 2015 at 08:40 PM Hard Working Says:

Reply to #74  
Anonymous Says:

Let the market decide what these rabbeim working in chinuch should get paid. A good rebbe will be in high demand and make a good parnassah. The reason why many of these rabbeim don't earn much money is because they are not really effective melamdim but have ended up in chinuch because they have no other skills and have useful role in the heimeshe tzibur. We allow the market to set the value of services a plumber can charge. If a faucet he installs starts leaking within a few days, the word will go out he is a lousy plumber and may end up fixing broken pipes a the mikvah if he is really lucky . Likewise, a rebellah is providing a service and good ones will make a good parnasah and bad ones should earn bupkis because thats what they are worth.

Wel honestly the chinuxh field has evolved. Because supply is so high most rabbiem today are talented, capable inovatove and quite qualified. The days of hiring a holocaust survivor who nebach needs parnasa is long over. Nevertheless I still stick to my math. Rabbiem get the same take home salary per hours work as your typical accountant. And the chutzpa is that many accountants must start off working for free while hiemisha business owners take advanatage of supply & demand.

79

 Nov 15, 2015 at 08:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Did anyone forget the elephant in the room?
- The fact that in Brooklyn alone, there likely are 100,000 children in Yeshivas.
- That the NYC DOE spends roughly $19,000 / child / year in public school

Doing the math, even if the DOE funded only 10k / child / year - that would mean a yearly influx of $1 Billion into the community instead of moving around from Reuven to Shimon to Levi.

Additionally, as some commenters have pointed out - Rabbi Ozeri was opening the topic for debate and discussion. His quote regarding Pesach Vacations was not his own, rather from R' Shimon Schwab! We require serious introspection and Rabbi Ozeri was proposing we come up with a novel solution - before the next generation becomes destroyed due to the ripple-effects of the current situation.

80

 Nov 15, 2015 at 08:47 PM Anonymous Says:

The Ruv is 100 percent correct. As for the Pesach hotels, another reason 'Heimishe' Yidden should give up that costly habit is that quite often those who all year long are so careful not to expose their children to questionable sights, seem to go blind by staying in some extraordinarily UNtzneasdic venues, with females and males parading around in various forms of undress.

81

 Nov 15, 2015 at 09:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Anonymous Says:

Pay them more for teaching less? These kids can't read, write or add 2 + 2 and yet you want us to pay more?

Yeshivish parents tell their children that a secular education doesn't matter. No matter how good a secular teacher is, when children come in with that attitude, they will learn nothing and will be proud of learning nothing. As I wrote in another post, a child in a Yeshivish school said: "only goyim and zeidies work."

82

 Nov 15, 2015 at 09:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
Ina Says:

I am very happy for you and all those who have everything they need. I can tell you that I do not and I know many who are just like me. There is much that needs to be done. I have always said Judaism is not a democracy and people should not be throwing money at whatever tugs at their heart strings. There is x amount of funds for x amount of need. There has to be a better way to fill the needs of our community. However, just to mention it brings outrage from the camp of the haves.

Trust me, I do not have everything I need. Even thinking that is laughable. And remember, I said that 85% of orthodox jews are living the fine life. You,are obviously not part of that group. I feel for you. It's a hard place to be in in this day and age.

83

 Nov 15, 2015 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #71  
Esther Says:

With all this emphasis on gashmius,with keeping up with what every else has and spends on chasanas etc,is it any wonder we have so many children frieing out?

Great point!

84

 Nov 15, 2015 at 09:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #73  
Anonymous Says:

Nebach at -least an hour prep a day when all a rebbe works is 6 hours a day with 10 weeks off.

I don't get it. Aren't Rebbeim supposed to go home, help with the family, and then go back to learn?

85

 Nov 15, 2015 at 10:23 PM md2205 Says:

I agree with the person who said supporting kollels is also a problem. Here you have grown men who need to be supported for years when you have a crisis of financing education for the children. Really, which is more important? In times like that, think a bit and realize that using money to support men who already have learned Torah and already are committed is taking away from support of the youngsters, which is top priority.

86

 Nov 15, 2015 at 10:30 PM Anon- Says:

I am a special ed teacher and love what I do but if only parents would appreciate the time and effort it takes to be a teacher and just use a card to say two words " thank you " more than just on Chanukah it goes more than any gift. Being a teacher is a very hard work and the salary will never do its justice appreciating your childs teacher by saying it goes a long way for the teacher and your child.

87

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #84  
Anonymous Says:

I don't get it. Aren't Rebbeim supposed to go home, help with the family, and then go back to learn?

Yes they are but don't complain that they are underpaid. Their pay per hour is very respectable.

88

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:21 PM YGeller Says:

Reply to #67  
Anonymous Says:

if we want to stop the tuition crisis while at the same time pay the rebeiim a livable waqe is to open yeshivas that are not privately owned but belong to the klal. Today many yeshivas in Brooklyn are family owned and the yeshiva is nothing more than a private business. Instead of providing decent wages to the rebeiim these families are stuffing their pockets. The board of directors of yeshivas should not be the richest people but rather should be made up of the regular hamoin aam that can understand that tuition is way overpriced considering that so many of our kids are illiterate.
Today the the divide in klal yisroel between the rich and the poor is greater than ever. Today we have not millionaires but billionaires among us who instead of distributing the wealth that hashem has bestowed among them they are hoarding the money for their future generations. I venture to say that in the frum community today we have between 15-20 billionaires and numerous multi multi millionaires. If you do the math their should be no aniyos in klal yisroel . If these big shots would act like Reichman or Rothchild instead of the meisers many really are we
would have no need for such speeches.

Comment of the year. This is the reason mosiach isnt here. Hashem watches as one of his children is eating a chulent stuffed with meat and the other is sharing a chicken leg in yerushalayim.

89

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:30 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #76  
ayinglefunadorf Says:

Maybe we should pay less for the Rebeim or nothing at all. A Hatzoloh member works for FREE and does a much better job than most EMT with 80.000 salaries. Many Kolel guys might gladly take a job in Chinuch for FREE. If the Father/Scweer pays him to sit in Kolel for life they might be Happy to pay even more if they actually do some Real work in Chinuch. Unpaid volunteers, Hatzoloh memebers, Bikur Cholim etc usually do a better job than paid ones. Interesting that we have thousand and thousand of Kolel Yungeleit getting paid a small fraction than Rebbes and they are OK somehow. Maybe they are devoted to their lifestyle.

Good luck with fnding kolel guys to teach for free and hatzalah etc are PART TIME jobs. Why don't YOU volunteer to do whatever job it is you do for free.

90

 Nov 15, 2015 at 11:39 PM PASHUT Says:

I hate to say this - and people will object - but we live in a society, in the frum world, where men are NOT encouraged to get a parnasah - but instead to dedicate their lives to learn. I am not getting into that merits of that - but the end result is that there now are MANY MANY men - as a percentage of all frum men - who can teach 2nd 3rd or 4th grade, and there are now less men - as a percentage of all frum men - who can support all the mosdos, yeshivos, melamdim, tzedakos, and aneyim that our community now has. We live in a capitalistic world - and if there are 10,000 men who can fill 1,000 jobs as melamdim, (while the working people are struggling to pay tuitions,and yeshivas are always in the red) it is the SYSTEM we have created that has resulted in an environment in which melamdim do not get paid better and in which poverty is growing. Focusing on "hotels" on yom tov is not addressing the problem. It will help for one year and hide the real problem. Lets address the real issue. Our system is broken and must be fixed soon.

91

 Nov 16, 2015 at 12:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Perhaps if we kept the kollel for the truly exceptional gifted yungeright instead of the average and below average guy, and take all the money saved by not having to support all those families as well as having to pay for the kollel buildings, the heat, the air conditioning, the rebbaim, the food etc. etc.. We could then use all that money saved to support elementary and high school yeshivot. We could then lower tuition as well as have the ability to pay the elementary and high school rebbis and teachers more and therefore attract a more educated and capable staff.

92

 Nov 16, 2015 at 12:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #90  
PASHUT Says:

I hate to say this - and people will object - but we live in a society, in the frum world, where men are NOT encouraged to get a parnasah - but instead to dedicate their lives to learn. I am not getting into that merits of that - but the end result is that there now are MANY MANY men - as a percentage of all frum men - who can teach 2nd 3rd or 4th grade, and there are now less men - as a percentage of all frum men - who can support all the mosdos, yeshivos, melamdim, tzedakos, and aneyim that our community now has. We live in a capitalistic world - and if there are 10,000 men who can fill 1,000 jobs as melamdim, (while the working people are struggling to pay tuitions,and yeshivas are always in the red) it is the SYSTEM we have created that has resulted in an environment in which melamdim do not get paid better and in which poverty is growing. Focusing on "hotels" on yom tov is not addressing the problem. It will help for one year and hide the real problem. Lets address the real issue. Our system is broken and must be fixed soon.

One does not have to be a talmid chacham or the sharpest knife in the drawer to teach alef beis and shor she'nagach shor to 3rd and 4th graders....Nor does it take great preparation to teach in most yeshivos since they strongly object to making their tamidim aware of what is happening in the world. Rather, the objective is to crank out more future kollel yungerleit whose only job opportunity is in chinuch.

93

 Nov 16, 2015 at 01:11 AM Emes- Says:

Every case situation is different. There is no rule for everyone. Some women work full time, this is their only vacation (doesn't want to work chol Hamoad) and with children can not find time on top of all her responsibilities to spend weeks preparing. It is only with a competent Halachick authority that a decision has to be made. Maybe the frum newspapers shouldn't advertise $5,000.00 shatels. But then again some women have to dress the part for their professional careers.
One has to be honest with themselves and present the shila honestly
without stacking the shila. I also know Rebbiem making $60,000.00 a year but get
free tuition for their kids. One size does not fit all. .

94

 Nov 16, 2015 at 02:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Perhaps if we kept the kollel for the truly exceptional gifted yungeright instead of the average and below average guy, and take all the money saved by not having to support all those families as well as having to pay for the kollel buildings, the heat, the air conditioning, the rebbaim, the food etc. etc.. We could then use all that money saved to support elementary and high school yeshivot. We could then lower tuition as well as have the ability to pay the elementary and high school rebbis and teachers more and therefore attract a more educated and capable staff.

95

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:35 AM RamapoJew Says:

Let's do the math. Assuming an average class size of 30, tuition of 10k a year each class has the ability to generate 300k in revenue. With multiple parallel classes per grade there should be sufficient money to pay the teachers a more respectable wage. Any Rebbi or teacher who is only earning 40 or 60k can blame the parents in his class who are not covering thier Childs expense to be in the school. Let's face it, the kollel for all system is killing us financially. The rebeim who preach the kollel for all system are the ones who are keeping their own salaries low!!!

96

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:46 AM RamapoJew Says:

Let's do the math. Assuming an average class size of 30, tuition of 10k a year each class has the ability to generate 300k in revenue. With multiple parallel classes per grade there should be sufficient money to pay the teachers a more respectable wage. Any Rebbi or teacher who is only earning 40 or 60k can blame the parents in his class who are not covering thier Childs expense to be in the school. Let's face it, the kollel for all system is killing us financially. The rebeim who preach the kollel for all system are the ones who are keeping their own salaries low!!!

97

 Nov 16, 2015 at 10:05 AM thoughtfulthinker Says:

Maybe the schools should reconsider what kind of buildings they use or if they should use them at all. Basements or livingroom can easily be used as classrooms. Upkeep for buildings is a huge cost that prevents the schools from paying the Rebbeim/teachers.. They can't have expensive facilities and then put the expense on the parents.

98

 Nov 16, 2015 at 11:40 AM kosher Says:

As an FYI to everyone out there, a first grade English teacher at RAMAZ - clearly a modern orthodox institution, makes $52K plus health insurance. They are not given and allowed to be given any Purim or Chanuka presents. I am sure the mechanchim don't fair any better at RAMAZ. Oh, and you are expected to have a master's degree in education. So I have to conclude that teachers, whether in yeshivos or in public school system, where a "tenured" teacher might make $70K after many years (though gets a retirement plan - something sorely lacking in yeshivos) are not doing it for the money, nor are they capable of living well.

Therefore, it is a communal responsibility to make up the difference. What I believe is missing is a central fund, given that the Reichmans are not able to today to plug the hole.

Yes, the real difference of yesterday and today is the lack of one/few major donors of the past and the UJA, JOINT fundings. We must recognize that if that's not G-d's will to have it that way, than all those that can, kick in the difference.

99

 Nov 16, 2015 at 12:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Many years ago, my Dad took a job teaching in a large Brooklyn yeshiva. We desperately needed the extra money. The yeshiva ripped him off, not paying him after he did the work. When you have a system that supposedly teaches the morality of the Torah yet is run by the corrupt, you get the current mess we are in now.

100

 Nov 16, 2015 at 12:20 PM Hard Worker Says:

Reply to #98  
kosher Says:

As an FYI to everyone out there, a first grade English teacher at RAMAZ - clearly a modern orthodox institution, makes $52K plus health insurance. They are not given and allowed to be given any Purim or Chanuka presents. I am sure the mechanchim don't fair any better at RAMAZ. Oh, and you are expected to have a master's degree in education. So I have to conclude that teachers, whether in yeshivos or in public school system, where a "tenured" teacher might make $70K after many years (though gets a retirement plan - something sorely lacking in yeshivos) are not doing it for the money, nor are they capable of living well.

Therefore, it is a communal responsibility to make up the difference. What I believe is missing is a central fund, given that the Reichmans are not able to today to plug the hole.

Yes, the real difference of yesterday and today is the lack of one/few major donors of the past and the UJA, JOINT fundings. We must recognize that if that's not G-d's will to have it that way, than all those that can, kick in the difference.

1) Rabbiem make more today than they did under Reichman. Its just that under Reichman there were not as many other rich guys giving yeshivos like there are today. In the aggreagte most mosdos have much more today than they use to have.
As a side note Reichman mostly gave to Toronto or EY. He felt NY mosdos have enough of its own wealthy donors to hold it up.

2) Re a communal resposnsibility to pay more. Why?? Do they earn so little per hour. For the amount of time rabbiem put in they earn the same as your typical accountant.

As a side note if you want to start, start with this. Many of our wealthy aguda convention goers have businesses that earn lots of money. Yet do to supply & demand they hire us yiddiliach and either pay us minimum wage or nothing. They claim they are doing us a "favor" by hiring us. That is even though we bring in money for them. So why pay us? They ignore the fact that accountants also have to make pesach. Rabbeim are not the only ones who have to make pesach. They should treat their workers fairly whether supply demand dictates that or not.

Signed,
A hard worker who does not go on bein hazmanim vacations!

101

 Nov 16, 2015 at 12:20 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #99  
Anonymous Says:

Many years ago, my Dad took a job teaching in a large Brooklyn yeshiva. We desperately needed the extra money. The yeshiva ripped him off, not paying him after he did the work. When you have a system that supposedly teaches the morality of the Torah yet is run by the corrupt, you get the current mess we are in now.

Well said. Many commentators have said it well. Yeshivos are their own fiefdoms and answer to absolutely no one. The real problem we have today is a lack of leadership. There are no rabbonim who care enough to see to it that their communities are run. After the Holocaust, the great rebbes managed to run their own houses but today there is no leadership and no one willing to listen to leadership. Yeshivos need to be run by communities and for communities. The way it is right now, even if money was to be funneled to them for an increase in teachers salaries, it is likely not the teachers who will benefit. I can see the money squandered on many things and just funneled into the pockets of top management. When will this all end?!

102

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Ina Says:

We are living in difficult economic times. As ridiculous as this may sound, many of the melamdim are faring better than the parents whose children they teach. Give up the Pesach hotels? Now really! How many of us can afford such a luxury? .

what a ridiculous comment!

103

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

He's half right. The other half is that our chinuch system has deteriorated to where the hanhala is stuck with managing classrooms, not teaching. The way to manage, that is most effective, is by using disciplinary tactics. This results in getting children to conform and perhaps follow rules, but it accomplishes diddly squat for educating them in the beauty of Torah and mitzvos. And in the current age of bombardment of influences, the hull of the ship is cracked open so wide that we are losing the kids. We need to make chinuch an elite job, but an elite job must be done. Being a mechanech was never an easy job, but it has never been as challenging as it is today.

When mosdos are ready to increase salaries for mechanchim, they must first answer a qualifying question. Is the rebbe doing a good job? The volume of information that is retained, as appears in test scores, is an indication of good memory skills. That is unrelated to true chinuch success. Does the talmid implement the knowledge gained, and does he display a love for Torah? That is more indicative of hatzlocho. Now, pay the rebbeim better.

why are you mixing apples and oranges? these are two serious, but separate issues. your ridiculous idea would make both much worse, neither any better.

104

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
Anonymous Says:

Let the market decide what these rabbeim working in chinuch should get paid. A good rebbe will be in high demand and make a good parnassah. The reason why many of these rabbeim don't earn much money is because they are not really effective melamdim but have ended up in chinuch because they have no other skills and have useful role in the heimeshe tzibur. We allow the market to set the value of services a plumber can charge. If a faucet he installs starts leaking within a few days, the word will go out he is a lousy plumber and may end up fixing broken pipes a the mikvah if he is really lucky . Likewise, a rebellah is providing a service and good ones will make a good parnasah and bad ones should earn bupkis because thats what they are worth.

what stupid remark! maybe should compare rebbes to doctors and lawyers and weathermen instead, who get paid regardless of the outcome of their work!

and what of the parents, who have much more effect on the children? if they turn out badly, should we punish or jail the parents?

105

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #97  
thoughtfulthinker Says:

Maybe the schools should reconsider what kind of buildings they use or if they should use them at all. Basements or livingroom can easily be used as classrooms. Upkeep for buildings is a huge cost that prevents the schools from paying the Rebbeim/teachers.. They can't have expensive facilities and then put the expense on the parents.

you must have been home-schooled. it shows.

Why don't we just teach all the children outdoors? even cheaper!

106

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #93  
Emes- Says:

Every case situation is different. There is no rule for everyone. Some women work full time, this is their only vacation (doesn't want to work chol Hamoad) and with children can not find time on top of all her responsibilities to spend weeks preparing. It is only with a competent Halachick authority that a decision has to be made. Maybe the frum newspapers shouldn't advertise $5,000.00 shatels. But then again some women have to dress the part for their professional careers.
One has to be honest with themselves and present the shila honestly
without stacking the shila. I also know Rebbiem making $60,000.00 a year but get
free tuition for their kids. One size does not fit all. .

stupid comment. how much does it cost to take a family away for pesach?

If you can't find money for anything worthwhile and only spend on yourselves, you deserve neither a yeshiva, or, for that matter, kids. save the money to spend on yourselves.

107

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

I disagree that we are living in difficult economic times, and I think it depends on where you live. I live in Teaneck. My goodness. People are knocking down perfectly good houses just to rebuild bigger ones. People are moving out of perfectly good houses to live in what they perceive as better ones. Everyone wants things just for their specific likes. Everyone is very entitled. And when I say everyone, I'm sorry to say that I do mean just about 85% of the community. Modern Orthodox Jews are very, very successful. Some of them have worked for it, many others were handed it on a silver spoon. The money they spend on homes could go toward scholarships for schools and camps for those less fortunate. What would these people get for that? Tax breaks. And knowing that they are giving tzedakah to their neighbors. But that is not public enough. It makes people feel more important when their names are placed on lists of people who donate or when they attend expensive dinners.
Orthodox Jews are NOT living in difficult economic times.

maybe you should step into the real world sometime.

do you which the poorest county in the entire united states, based on per capita income? bet you think it is an appalachian or ozark hillbilly town, or rednecks in Alabama?


No, it's the basically 100% chassidish New Square. POOREST COUNTY IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES.

108

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:10 PM Hard Worker Says:

Reply to #105  
Anonymous Says:

you must have been home-schooled. it shows.

Why don't we just teach all the children outdoors? even cheaper!

You are taking it to the other extreme my friend. Schools today are constantly looking to live up to the jonses. Every new yuckel school has to build a nicer and fancier building then the next one. These buildings are not just simple buldings made to house children. They have huge arches, pillars with stunning shinning marble hallways etc..It became a contest who can build a fancier school. If people would just put that extra unnecessary extravagence into a rebbe's pay they would earn more.

109

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #108  
Hard Worker Says:

You are taking it to the other extreme my friend. Schools today are constantly looking to live up to the jonses. Every new yuckel school has to build a nicer and fancier building then the next one. These buildings are not just simple buldings made to house children. They have huge arches, pillars with stunning shinning marble hallways etc..It became a contest who can build a fancier school. If people would just put that extra unnecessary extravagence into a rebbe's pay they would earn more.

I have no idea what schools you are looking at with huge arches, pillars and stunning shining marble hallways, but they certainly aren't yeshivas. Yeshivas are just as cheap with their building as they are with their employees.

And if you think that if yeshivas spent less on their building the rabbeim would be paid more, you are seriously delusional.

110

 Nov 16, 2015 at 08:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

I am not a Pesach hotel patron. Never tried it, and have no desire. In theory, I do not support it. Pesach is time to be home with family, however extensive it may be. My personal feeling about "mishing" is negative. I do not do it, and i do not advocate it. Had I been less informed, I would jump to support Rabbi Ozeri, to abandon the expensive Pesach hotels, and to use that money to fund chinuch. But I have connected to many situations of others who do go to hotels, and I learned that this is not a one sided issue.

There are families that are unable to house their family members who come from far and wide, and hotels are the only option. As well, there are families who cannot afford to make Pesach themselves, whether for physical or financial reasons, and they are sponsored at hotels. I am aware of a family that was experiencing substantial issues with shalom bayis, and they used the environment to successfully reconnect and create the bonds that healed the family. Perhaps it is a luxury for some. But for others, it is a necessity. For those, it is no more justified to tell them to eliminate this expense than it is to tell them to stop paying electric & gas bills.

So the shalom bayis cases have to go every year to the hotel to "reconnect?!" Are u for real?!

111

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

I disagree that we are living in difficult economic times, and I think it depends on where you live. I live in Teaneck. My goodness. People are knocking down perfectly good houses just to rebuild bigger ones. People are moving out of perfectly good houses to live in what they perceive as better ones. Everyone wants things just for their specific likes. Everyone is very entitled. And when I say everyone, I'm sorry to say that I do mean just about 85% of the community. Modern Orthodox Jews are very, very successful. Some of them have worked for it, many others were handed it on a silver spoon. The money they spend on homes could go toward scholarships for schools and camps for those less fortunate. What would these people get for that? Tax breaks. And knowing that they are giving tzedakah to their neighbors. But that is not public enough. It makes people feel more important when their names are placed on lists of people who donate or when they attend expensive dinners.
Orthodox Jews are NOT living in difficult economic times.

Are you generalizing about ALL Orthodox Jews?! In your post you claim to be speaking about modern orthodox.,,.so which is it?

112

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

I disagree that we are living in difficult economic times, and I think it depends on where you live. I live in Teaneck. My goodness. People are knocking down perfectly good houses just to rebuild bigger ones. People are moving out of perfectly good houses to live in what they perceive as better ones. Everyone wants things just for their specific likes. Everyone is very entitled. And when I say everyone, I'm sorry to say that I do mean just about 85% of the community. Modern Orthodox Jews are very, very successful. Some of them have worked for it, many others were handed it on a silver spoon. The money they spend on homes could go toward scholarships for schools and camps for those less fortunate. What would these people get for that? Tax breaks. And knowing that they are giving tzedakah to their neighbors. But that is not public enough. It makes people feel more important when their names are placed on lists of people who donate or when they attend expensive dinners.
Orthodox Jews are NOT living in difficult economic times.

How can you make a blanket statement like that? Are you saying all Orthodox Jews are wealthy? How ignorant...most people I know are middle of the road, a few are wealthier and some are serious,y destitute..,,how can you make such a generalization??????

113

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

Parents need to inculcate into their children that education is important. Even if they don't like the subject matter, they have to be respectful of the teacher. There is a true lack of a quest for knowledge. A mechanech told me that he heard a child say: "Only goyim and zaidies work." If this is the attitude, a Rebbi or secular teacher can stand on their heads and do somersaults, children will not learn. Children would rather play than learn and it is up to parents to send their children to school with the message that getting an education is important.

Ridiculous! That is not why children don't learn! And it's up to the teacher/ Rebbie to discipline so the children behave and learn!

114

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
A real rebbi Says:

I am a real rebbi here teaching in brooklyn ny, i teach in a very well known mossad
Internet access is something i do not have at home , however my second income nerds it so in my cubicle that i rent i have a computer my sister in in the midwest sent me this link and i think i have to respond .
Number one rabbeim DO NOT get free tuition even if children are in same school
Yeshivos are so strapped for cash there is no way they can do that.
#2 the meager salary that a rebbe earns usually warrents a second job
Most take on teaching english in the afternoon
Does anyone here know how demeaning of a job that is? Do YOU have any idea how YOUR child behaves in the afternoon?!
Do know what this does to a mentally and physically what effect it has on his viewing of yiddish kids ? Do you realize that we are slaughtering rabbeim over tiny salaries most rabbeim are altruistic in the begining but then they buckle like crazy .
Once a year we make dome public demeaning campaign that gives discounted food to rabbeimim turning them into TZEDAKA cases! You want their good PAY THEM!!!
Ugh discusting just pay them a normal salary!!!
Parents are having a hard time paying tuition but there are literally billions out there being had by others let them help and all the charlatans promising segulas for money
Lets stop this . The fact is 100 % of parents do not want to be educators and are hsppy thst other people are doing the "DIRTY WORK" so at least help them out .some wealthy people think its ludicrous to pay a rebbe $ 100,000 a year but yet their suits cost $3,000. Cars over $1000. A month Or their challah boards on the shabbos table can cost in excess of $5,000 thats ok but helping a rebbe ? nah ! These people are the boards of Our yeshivas!!! Enjoy your money but at least help out we are FIXING YOUR MISTAKES AND ISSUES DONT FORGET THAT!!
In conclusion if we realize the importance of a rebbis job

The way you speak does not sound like any Rebbie I know and is certainly not ehrlich as a rebbie should be. I sure hope if you're telling the truth that you're a rebbie in a well known Yeshiva, that you're not my son's Rebbie. You're not a role model, you sound nasty and like you believe "Es Kimt Mir," and even if that's true, you certainly have an attitude like that. Please look at your speech and perhaps you'll realize you need to straighten out your act before you'll deserve more money!

115

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
MayerAlter Says:

No, I certainly don't. As I said I pay all the tuition I am asked for and I give the tzdokka I am mandated by the Torah to give plus some. And unless the article is wrong I didn't misquote the good Rabbi. The article says " Let us give up the Pesach hotel" Seems pretty clear to me. Rabbi Ozeri, jump off the bandwagon of being everyone's conscience and boss. Maybe people should give up the sumptuous gashmiusdik experience of the Aguda Convention. How much was the cheapest room at the convention and how much was paid to bring in all the honored guests? Do the Rosh Yeshivas, Dayonim, Rabbonim and Admorim feel the Aguda Convention is so important that they pay their own way? Stop dreaming. How many mechanchim's salaries could all that of paid for. I believe a Shabbos place at the convention was more than Shabbos away last Pesach.

Your comparison makes no sense at all. The convention consists of much divrei Torah by gedolim, and topics raised are for the purpose of benefitting the klal! Can u say the same about Pesach hotels?! Or is that just a fashion show and fress-fest? Entertainment galore? Plane tickets needed too?! Your comparison is simply ridiculous, a poor attempt to alleviate and justify your own guilt.

116

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #54  
Just sayin Says:

So many trolls commenting today! Anyway it's pretty clear that Rebbeim should be paid more! Period. I'm just not sure how he plans on implementing it. By saying a speech, people shake their heads and say yes, yes, he's right! But that's about it. Does the Rav have any ideas as to to how to get people to have more chashevus for those involved in the holy work of chinuch? Moreover for every Rebbe job available you have many applicants. This in turn causes a higher supply than the demand. Which in turn means they can pay whatever they want.

Did u even read everything written? If u had, you'd have seen that as as result of the rabbi's same plea last year, gvirim in tcommunity donated $500,000 specifically towards rebbeim's fund!

117

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonymous Says:

My husband is one of the secular teachers you talk about. He is an excellent teacher. But the students are terrible. They are demeaning toward him. He walks in every single day with lesson plans. He thinks about how he will encourage them to want to learn. He is creative. But it doesn't matter. Because they have been taught that a secular education is not important.
Parents are to blame for this. And in a sense, so is the whole right wing orthodox educational system. They have secular studies teachers so that they can get government money, but they don't enforce that the students have to learn secular studies.
What a waste of a talented teacher and the students' money. And what an embarrassment to the Yeshivish community.

An,other shameful generalization! You sound ignorant and ridiculous! It is NOT like that in every classroom during secular studies! Perhaps your husband needs additional training in how to control the bahavior issues in his classroom and control the pupils! STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE (parents, the ENTIRE SYSTEM!!!) I have kids in Yeshiva and have also taught secular studies, and in all the years, I've never heard of the stories you're reporting being a common and constant problem,,,,maybe here and there yes, but if it's happening regularly, then THE (incompetent) TEACHER IS THE PROBLEM.

118

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
mewhoze Says:

I look forward to seeing the ads for pesach in the Jewish papers. they always show you who the scholar in residence is, various speakers etc.
will prob find some of the rabbis that feel the same as the rabbi from agudah stated...cancel your pesach hotel trip, yet they are going!!
HA!!

The rabbis go, so that the whole fress-fest will not be a 100% gashmius filled you tov...they go to add some diversity Torah and elevate the environment!

119

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #66  
Yitzchok Says:

Are we talking about all Raabeim? What about the rebbe's that teach in fancy schools, manhattan, LI, NJ, are they also struggling? The answer is: we must educate our children so that they can make a good enough living so that this doesn't continue to be a problem in 10-15-20 years. Until then, the people with money in the community need to support the schools, if they don't, then call them out on it, don't give the alyos in shull, and yell at them when you see them.

The whole mole,system needs to be reformed! If parents and grandparents are obligated (!) to support new couples for years at a time, and the boys/new husbands sit and learn with no aiming or work plan for the future, WHERE IS THE NEXT GENERATION GOING TO HAVE MONEY FROM TO SUPPORT THEUR KIDS?! BOys who sit and learn should be made to go to college part time towards a career so they are not a lifelong burden on their parents!!!! Maybe then, those parents won't be so strapped that there's nothing left for Rebbiem!

120

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
Anonymous Says:

Yes it was very charasimatic but pure nonsense.

Anyone that shlugs up what a rov says, as if he knows better, like you just did is an apikores, go do teshuva.

121

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #76  
ayinglefunadorf Says:

Maybe we should pay less for the Rebeim or nothing at all. A Hatzoloh member works for FREE and does a much better job than most EMT with 80.000 salaries. Many Kolel guys might gladly take a job in Chinuch for FREE. If the Father/Scweer pays him to sit in Kolel for life they might be Happy to pay even more if they actually do some Real work in Chinuch. Unpaid volunteers, Hatzoloh memebers, Bikur Cholim etc usually do a better job than paid ones. Interesting that we have thousand and thousand of Kolel Yungeleit getting paid a small fraction than Rebbes and they are OK somehow. Maybe they are devoted to their lifestyle.

It's not surprising at all that your post on this subject, is just as ridiculously stupid as your posts on political subjects!

122

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #81  
Anonymous Says:

Yeshivish parents tell their children that a secular education doesn't matter. No matter how good a secular teacher is, when children come in with that attitude, they will learn nothing and will be proud of learning nothing. As I wrote in another post, a child in a Yeshivish school said: "only goyim and zeidies work."

So according to your 'logic,' "A child" made that statement, in your own words, meaning ONE LONE child made that remark, so from that, you've deduced a
That all yeshivish parents teach their kids that secular studies don't matter? Are you serious? Let me guess, you're the wife of that great secular studies teacher who can't control his class, not because of his own ineffectiveness as an educator, but because ALL YESHIVISH KIDS ARE TAUGHT THAT ENGLISH DOESNT MATTER SO THEY'RE FREE TO MISBEHAVE...right? Too ridiculous for words...

123

 Nov 16, 2015 at 10:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #82  
Anonymous Says:

Trust me, I do not have everything I need. Even thinking that is laughable. And remember, I said that 85% of orthodox jews are living the fine life. You,are obviously not part of that group. I feel for you. It's a hard place to be in in this day and age.

Where did you get that statistic from, the 85% number? Have you done studies, taken a poll, what?

124

 Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #97  
thoughtfulthinker Says:

Maybe the schools should reconsider what kind of buildings they use or if they should use them at all. Basements or livingroom can easily be used as classrooms. Upkeep for buildings is a huge cost that prevents the schools from paying the Rebbeim/teachers.. They can't have expensive facilities and then put the expense on the parents.

Lol "thoughtful thinker?!" Living rooms instead of classrooms??? Lol please tell me you're not serious! Do you know how many living rooms would be needed in Brooklyn alone?! Oy.

125

 Nov 16, 2015 at 11:00 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #112  
Anonymous Says:

How can you make a blanket statement like that? Are you saying all Orthodox Jews are wealthy? How ignorant...most people I know are middle of the road, a few are wealthier and some are serious,y destitute..,,how can you make such a generalization??????

Yes, many people are seriously destitute which is why I maintain rebbeim don't look so bad today. They are financially better off than the parents of many of the children they teach. Too many of us are living a difficult financial existence. Unfortunately, this is a fact which is not limited to rebbeim.

126

 Nov 17, 2015 at 04:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #113  
Anonymous Says:

Ridiculous! That is not why children don't learn! And it's up to the teacher/ Rebbie to discipline so the children behave and learn!

and if the rebbe "disciplines" the child he gets a new home, compliments of the legal system.

127

 Nov 17, 2015 at 04:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

The way you speak does not sound like any Rebbie I know and is certainly not ehrlich as a rebbie should be. I sure hope if you're telling the truth that you're a rebbie in a well known Yeshiva, that you're not my son's Rebbie. You're not a role model, you sound nasty and like you believe "Es Kimt Mir," and even if that's true, you certainly have an attitude like that. Please look at your speech and perhaps you'll realize you need to straighten out your act before you'll deserve more money!

I was going to disagree with you until I read the "rebbe"s comment that rabbeim deserve at least $100,000 a year in salary.

128

 Nov 17, 2015 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #117  
Anonymous Says:

An,other shameful generalization! You sound ignorant and ridiculous! It is NOT like that in every classroom during secular studies! Perhaps your husband needs additional training in how to control the bahavior issues in his classroom and control the pupils! STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE (parents, the ENTIRE SYSTEM!!!) I have kids in Yeshiva and have also taught secular studies, and in all the years, I've never heard of the stories you're reporting being a common and constant problem,,,,maybe here and there yes, but if it's happening regularly, then THE (incompetent) TEACHER IS THE PROBLEM.

you have never taught secular studies in a yeshiva as you claim, as the original commenter was right on the nose in his comments.

And with parents like you who expect teachers/rebbes to bring up your children, then, to paraphrase you, "the (incompetent) parents are the problem".

129

 Nov 17, 2015 at 04:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #123  
Anonymous Says:

Where did you get that statistic from, the 85% number? Have you done studies, taken a poll, what?

don't be so hard on him, he is mostly correct: the number is actually 8.5%, not 85%

130

 Nov 17, 2015 at 04:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #124  
Anonymous Says:

Lol "thoughtful thinker?!" Living rooms instead of classrooms??? Lol please tell me you're not serious! Do you know how many living rooms would be needed in Brooklyn alone?! Oy.

you are wrong. this was a wonderful idea. I do wonder how to get enough desks and chairs into people's living rooms, where the lunchroom is, and how do the students get from class to class, but otherwise this is a wonderful idea, well thought out, and comes from a man/woman who in real life is only allowed to write with a crayon (no sharp objects).

131

 Nov 17, 2015 at 04:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #125  
Ina Says:

Yes, many people are seriously destitute which is why I maintain rebbeim don't look so bad today. They are financially better off than the parents of many of the children they teach. Too many of us are living a difficult financial existence. Unfortunately, this is a fact which is not limited to rebbeim.

You apparently don't know the meaning of the words "seriously" and "destitute" and your claim,

"I maintain rebbeim don't look so bad today. They are financially better off than the parents of many of the children they teach"

You have also apparently not been out in the real world for many years.

132

 Nov 17, 2015 at 07:03 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #131  
Anonymous Says:

You apparently don't know the meaning of the words "seriously" and "destitute" and your claim,

"I maintain rebbeim don't look so bad today. They are financially better off than the parents of many of the children they teach"

You have also apparently not been out in the real world for many years.

I have been out in the real world for more years than I care to admit to. Why our you so insulting? Please see comment 23 and 25 for a decent analysis of the Rebbe v. many of the below average income earners today. We are living under difficult economic circumstances. I, for one, am happy that you are privileged to live in a world where you can't appreciate the struggles so many of us -- not just Rebbeim, are going through.

133

 Nov 17, 2015 at 09:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #117  
Anonymous Says:

An,other shameful generalization! You sound ignorant and ridiculous! It is NOT like that in every classroom during secular studies! Perhaps your husband needs additional training in how to control the bahavior issues in his classroom and control the pupils! STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE (parents, the ENTIRE SYSTEM!!!) I have kids in Yeshiva and have also taught secular studies, and in all the years, I've never heard of the stories you're reporting being a common and constant problem,,,,maybe here and there yes, but if it's happening regularly, then THE (incompetent) TEACHER IS THE PROBLEM.

Oh really? Then explain the comment that one of the students made: "only goyim and zadies work?" How demeaning is that?
You see how you wrote that I sound "ignorant". The same way that you are calling me a name, is the way that probably your children call other people names. And that is exactly what is wrong with the Yeshivish community.
I am a teacher myself. I know what it is like to run a classroom. I see the difference between children who are well brought up and children who are not.
I NEVER blame EVERYONE ELSE. I look first to the adults. Then, if the adults have integrity, are good teachers and are doing the right thing, I say it must be the students.
My husband's students have told him that since they learn all day, when it comes time to secular studies they, in their words, "just want to chill." Please explain that by blaming the teacher.

134

 Nov 17, 2015 at 09:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #107  
Anonymous Says:

maybe you should step into the real world sometime.

do you which the poorest county in the entire united states, based on per capita income? bet you think it is an appalachian or ozark hillbilly town, or rednecks in Alabama?


No, it's the basically 100% chassidish New Square. POOREST COUNTY IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES.

Of course they are poor. They don't work. DUH!

135

 Nov 17, 2015 at 09:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #113  
Anonymous Says:

Ridiculous! That is not why children don't learn! And it's up to the teacher/ Rebbie to discipline so the children behave and learn!

A Rebbe/teacher can only work with the raw material he/she is given. If parents send children to school with the message that school is not important, if the children grow up in homes where education is not valued, then children will not learn.

136

 Nov 17, 2015 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #122  
Anonymous Says:

So according to your 'logic,' "A child" made that statement, in your own words, meaning ONE LONE child made that remark, so from that, you've deduced a
That all yeshivish parents teach their kids that secular studies don't matter? Are you serious? Let me guess, you're the wife of that great secular studies teacher who can't control his class, not because of his own ineffectiveness as an educator, but because ALL YESHIVISH KIDS ARE TAUGHT THAT ENGLISH DOESNT MATTER SO THEY'RE FREE TO MISBEHAVE...right? Too ridiculous for words...

Hmmm. Read some of the right wing magazines. Listen to how they talk about how an education isn't necessary because the people who are highlighted have made so much money without an education. Read about how even older people who did get a good education now say that an education isn't needed because you can make money without an education. I don't mind if you disagree with me, but I do mind if you don't tell the truth.
And one lone child. I think not. I think that one lone child comes from a family of 10, or 11, or 12, all of whom are being taught the same thing.
Come on, just be honest.

137

 Nov 17, 2015 at 10:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #112  
Anonymous Says:

How can you make a blanket statement like that? Are you saying all Orthodox Jews are wealthy? How ignorant...most people I know are middle of the road, a few are wealthier and some are serious,y destitute..,,how can you make such a generalization??????

No, I specifically did not say that all orthodox Jews are wealthy. I said about 85% of them are. The ones who are middle of the road try to live Orthodox lives and find it very hard, as so much is expected of them.
Yes, some are seriously destitute. I agree with you.
I am not ignorant. I just look around me and see what I see.

138

 Nov 17, 2015 at 10:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #113  
Anonymous Says:

Ridiculous! That is not why children don't learn! And it's up to the teacher/ Rebbie to discipline so the children behave and learn!

If you are at a business meeting, is it up to the leader of the meeting to make sure that everyone behaves? Is there no responsibility on the individual members of the meeting? Of course there is. In the same way, of course the teacher or Rebbe has to discipline. But if the raw material is flawed, it doesn't matter what the teacher does.

139

 Nov 18, 2015 at 11:17 PM Anonymous Says:

all you people who think they know more than the rabbi have real issues. who do you think you are?? this rabbi knows much much more chinuch than you

140

 Nov 19, 2015 at 07:48 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #139  
Anonymous Says:

all you people who think they know more than the rabbi have real issues. who do you think you are?? this rabbi knows much much more chinuch than you

Yes, I am sure he does. He is also part of a very affluent Sefardic community and likely earns a handsome salary for what he does. In short, he does not identify with the rest of us! Let's also remember, the Sefardic Bikur Cholim only helps their own Sefardim. What I am trying to say is, here is a rabbi from an affluent community telling the less affluent that we need to raise the financial standards of our rebbeim. This, when most rebbeim appear to survive and when so many of us are not living on a higher standard than these very same rebbeim.

141

Sign-in to post a comment

Scroll Up
Advertisements:

Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!