Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Trenton, NJ - Brooklyn Man Sentenced To Four Years In Prison In Forced 'Get' Case

Published on: November 16, 2015 01:45 PM
Change text size Text Size  

Trenton, NJ - A Brooklyn, New York, man was sentenced today to 48 months in prison for crossing state lines as part of a plan to violently coerce a recalcitrant husband to grant his wife a religious divorce, U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman announced.

Moshe Goldstein, 32, previously pleaded guilty before U.S. District Judge Freda L. Wolfson to an information charging him with traveling in interstate commerce to commit extortion. Judge Wolfson imposed the sentence today in Trenton federal court.

According to documents filed in this case and statements made in court:

On Oct. 9, 2013, Moshe Goldstein and a group of conspirators – including his brother Avrohom Goldstein, 36, his father, Jay Goldstein, 61, David Hellman, 33, Simcha Bulmash, 32, Binyamin Stimler, 40, Sholom Shuchat, 31, all of Brooklyn, and Ariel Potash, 42, of Monsey, New York – traveled from New York to a warehouse in Edison, New Jersey, with the intent of forcing a Jewish husband to give his wife a “get,” a document which, according to Jewish Law, must be presented by a husband to his wife to effect their divorce.

Advertisement:

During his plea hearing, Moshe Goldstein admitted that when he and the other conspirators arrived at the warehouse, they met with an individual who, unbeknownst to them, was an undercover FBI agent posing as the “husband’s” brother in law. They discussed a plan and prepared to confine, restrain and threaten the victim.

The group was then arrested by a team of FBI agents and charged by criminal complaint – along with rabbis Mendel Epstein, 70, of Lakewood, New Jersey, and Martin Wolmark, 57, of Monsey – in connection with the scheme.

Moshe Goldstein also admitted that on Aug. 22, 2011, he and others went to a residence in Brooklyn where they restrained, assaulted and injured another recalcitrant husband and his roommate in an attempt to extort a divorce from the husband.

In addition to the prison term, Judge Wolfson sentenced Moshe Goldstein to serve two years of supervised release.

Avrohom Goldstein, Hellman, Bulmash, Potash and Shuchat each pleaded guilty to one count of traveling in interstate commerce to commit extortion. Hellman and Bulmash are scheduled for sentencing on Nov. 17, 2015. Avrohom Goldstein, Potash and Shuchat are scheduled for sentencing Nov. 19, 2015. Wolmark, who pleaded guilty to conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce to commit extortion, is scheduled for sentencing on Dec. 14, 2015.

Epstein, Jay Goldstein and Stimler were all convicted at trial on April 21, 2015. Epstein, who was convicted of conspiracy to commit kidnapping, is scheduled for sentencing on Dec. 15, 2015. Stimler and Jay Goldstein, both convicted of conspiracy to commit kidnapping and attempted kidnapping, are scheduled for sentencing on Dec. 15, 2015 and Dec. 16, 2015, respectively.


More of today's headlines

Geneva - Israeli security forces have used excessive force and may have carried out summary executions against Palestinians amid a surge in violence since the start of... Washington - The Obama administration announced Monday a new intelligence-sharing arrangement with France designed to more readily and quickly allow joint military...

 

Total50

Read Comments (50)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Nov 16, 2015 at 01:57 PM I don't get it Says:

What is 48 months after reducing for "good behavior" etc?

2

 Nov 16, 2015 at 02:14 PM WolfishMusings Says:

Reply to #1  
I don't get it Says:

What is 48 months after reducing for "good behavior" etc?

According to federal law, he must serve at least 85% of his sentence. 85% of 48 months is 40.8 months.

The Wolf

3

 Nov 16, 2015 at 02:16 PM qazxc Says:

Federal sentences do not work that way. He will serve almost the entire 48 months.

4

 Nov 16, 2015 at 02:23 PM Good bye to Forced Divorce process Says:

From now on. Those Hisbands who decide to Not give a Get for some reason. Will have a free ride.

6

 Nov 16, 2015 at 02:42 PM berylyoseph Says:

Now his wife (and the wives of his co conspirators) is a 'Aguna', who will force him to give her a 'get' ? Or maybe Rabbi Epstien or Rabbi Wolmark can give her a heter to date other men while he is away ?

7

 Nov 16, 2015 at 02:49 PM jay Says:

It is time to let the courts with independent rabbinical supervision legally force a get if the man refuses and rather wants to abuse his wife. It is a crime to abuse another person and it's both sides that have legal rights that should be backed up by legal force if there is no other way. Why should jewish women continue to suffer? Why?

8

 Nov 16, 2015 at 02:58 PM WolfishMusings Says:

Completely different type of case and a completely different jurisdiction (federal vs. state). Also, Spitzer had his sentence cut short because of his status as a youthful offender. Goldstein is 32 -- even if a youthful offender status exists in federal courts, Goldstein won't benefit from it.

Barring a successful appeal of his conviction, he's going to serve at least 3.5 of the four years.

The Wolf

9

 Nov 16, 2015 at 03:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Good bye to Forced Divorce process Says:

From now on. Those Hisbands who decide to Not give a Get for some reason. Will have a free ride.

Yup just like till now the wives played the aguna cards with these clowns. Many women make insane custody or monetary demands. If the man doesn't accpet them they won't take a get .Then they subsequently run around to epstein and his likes playing the sad aguna card.

This is not to say that no men are animals and achzurs who refuse to give their wives gets due to vengence. But overall its a 50 50 game with both sides acting irrational.

10

 Nov 16, 2015 at 03:07 PM a plea??? Says:

this is outrageous sentence for a plea - they did this to help -yes they were wrong but way too harsh

11

 Nov 16, 2015 at 03:26 PM skeptic Says:

Fantastic news! Four years is a bit low, but still fair for the crimes he committed. Of course, if people would move passed bronze age superstition where women were considered property and need to be "released" by their husbands, we would not have this problem in the first place. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

12

 Nov 16, 2015 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:

The Skver guy is a hero now and can do no wrong. Hopefully, he won't burn down another innocent man's house and try to murder the family. Who knows?

13

 Nov 16, 2015 at 03:48 PM clear-thinker Says:

Federal versus state court. He will serve 85% of the sentence if he gets any good time

14

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

Yup just like till now the wives played the aguna cards with these clowns. Many women make insane custody or monetary demands. If the man doesn't accpet them they won't take a get .Then they subsequently run around to epstein and his likes playing the sad aguna card.

This is not to say that no men are animals and achzurs who refuse to give their wives gets due to vengence. But overall its a 50 50 game with both sides acting irrational.

makes one proud to be a Jew.

15

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:31 PM Moishe_Mechel Says:

Goldstein, Hellman, Bulmash, Potash and Shuchat were all stooges & nebachs that need $. while epstien & yomark have deep pockets 4good & can afford good representation r laughing all the way 2the bank- these $ nebachs r paying the REAL PRICE.

16

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
jay Says:

It is time to let the courts with independent rabbinical supervision legally force a get if the man refuses and rather wants to abuse his wife. It is a crime to abuse another person and it's both sides that have legal rights that should be backed up by legal force if there is no other way. Why should jewish women continue to suffer? Why?

why should jewish men continue to suffer under wicked ladies who play the sympathy card? Why?

17

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:52 PM IamYid Says:

I don't quite get our plea-bargaining system; it lets criminals get away with unjustifiably light sentences. Example: four years for the crimes of such degree of violence! Still, I will think of it as glass half full; at least he got something. I hope that scoundrel Epstein gets full measure.

18

 Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55 PM IamYid Says:

Reply to #7  
jay Says:

It is time to let the courts with independent rabbinical supervision legally force a get if the man refuses and rather wants to abuse his wife. It is a crime to abuse another person and it's both sides that have legal rights that should be backed up by legal force if there is no other way. Why should jewish women continue to suffer? Why?

Forced gets are posul. The women who receive them will still be agunas.

19

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:09 PM qazxc Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

why should jewish men continue to suffer under wicked ladies who play the sympathy card? Why?

Only the weasely wimps suffer. The rest of us manage very well.

20

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:21 PM Yonason_Herschlag Says:

I don't know all the men involved, but from one that I do, I can only assume that he would never have gotten involved in attempted "extortion" had he not believed that the person they were "extorting" was immorally withholding the get. So their sin was that they believed the loshan hora, and were prepared to act on it, without verifying the accusations as is required by halacha - kabalas loshan hora.

Nevertheless, I think they were also suckered into following poor legal advice by pleading guilty to extortion. If someone steals my wallet, it is not a crime of extortion for me to use force to get it out of him. Neither is it a crime of extortion to use force to get a person to release property that belongs to a third party, even if a person is hired for doing it. Most of these men were suckered into using force to help a person get what they thought was rightfully theirs. Yes they made a mistake, but that's not a crime of extortion.

21

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:39 PM 1234567 Says:

Reply to #15  
Moishe_Mechel Says:

Goldstein, Hellman, Bulmash, Potash and Shuchat were all stooges & nebachs that need $. while epstien & yomark have deep pockets 4good & can afford good representation r laughing all the way 2the bank- these $ nebachs r paying the REAL PRICE.

Moishe mechel, you've got no clue what you are talking about. Keep your nonsense to yourself. If you have nothing intelligent to say about the matter, talking out of your behind is just foolish.

22

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
skeptic Says:

Fantastic news! Four years is a bit low, but still fair for the crimes he committed. Of course, if people would move passed bronze age superstition where women were considered property and need to be "released" by their husbands, we would not have this problem in the first place. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Obviously you have zero knowledge of halacha (I'll define that for you since it's obvious you're clueless : it means orthodox Jewish law) or you wouldn't be making such ignorant remarks.

23

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:50 PM IamYid Says:

Reply to #11  
skeptic Says:

Fantastic news! Four years is a bit low, but still fair for the crimes he committed. Of course, if people would move passed bronze age superstition where women were considered property and need to be "released" by their husbands, we would not have this problem in the first place. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

What you dismissively call "bronze age superstition" for is is Torah by which we live. If you don't believe in it, what are you doing posting on the orthodox website? I am sure the are reform ones which are much more suitable venues for you to express your goyisher opinions.

24

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
qazxc Says:

Only the weasely wimps suffer. The rest of us manage very well.

So whats your point? Yes hashem created some men as wimps. Therefore they should suffer under wives who take advanatge of the feel bad aguna system?

25

 Nov 16, 2015 at 05:56 PM qazxc Says:

Reply to #17  
IamYid Says:

I don't quite get our plea-bargaining system; it lets criminals get away with unjustifiably light sentences. Example: four years for the crimes of such degree of violence! Still, I will think of it as glass half full; at least he got something. I hope that scoundrel Epstein gets full measure.

AMEN! Be'ibud reshoim rena!

26

 Nov 16, 2015 at 06:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
IamYid Says:

I don't quite get our plea-bargaining system; it lets criminals get away with unjustifiably light sentences. Example: four years for the crimes of such degree of violence! Still, I will think of it as glass half full; at least he got something. I hope that scoundrel Epstein gets full measure.

Obviously you're one of the vile husbands otherwise you wouldn't be so hateful.,,,

27

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
IamYid Says:

Forced gets are posul. The women who receive them will still be agunas.

says who? You?

who would know? and more to the point, who would care? Jews are very good at rationalizing whatever they do to fit halacha instead of the other way around.

28

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Yonason_Herschlag Says:

I don't know all the men involved, but from one that I do, I can only assume that he would never have gotten involved in attempted "extortion" had he not believed that the person they were "extorting" was immorally withholding the get. So their sin was that they believed the loshan hora, and were prepared to act on it, without verifying the accusations as is required by halacha - kabalas loshan hora.

Nevertheless, I think they were also suckered into following poor legal advice by pleading guilty to extortion. If someone steals my wallet, it is not a crime of extortion for me to use force to get it out of him. Neither is it a crime of extortion to use force to get a person to release property that belongs to a third party, even if a person is hired for doing it. Most of these men were suckered into using force to help a person get what they thought was rightfully theirs. Yes they made a mistake, but that's not a crime of extortion.

obviously, you don't know the definition of extortion, and most certainly, not the legal definition of it.

And if someone steals your wallet, you are correct that it is not extortion to force it out of him. it is robbery, and you will still go to prison, and the example you give has nothing to do with the situation described here of withholding a get. and you are correct that it is not "a crime of extortion to use force to get a person to release property that belongs to a third party". that is an even worse crime, and you would be found guilty and get an even longer prison sentence.

Where did you get your legal knowledge? TV? comic books? surely nowhere in the real world!

You know neither law nor logic. and no one cares what you "can only assume", least of all the court, or VIN readers.

29

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
IamYid Says:

I don't quite get our plea-bargaining system; it lets criminals get away with unjustifiably light sentences. Example: four years for the crimes of such degree of violence! Still, I will think of it as glass half full; at least he got something. I hope that scoundrel Epstein gets full measure.

I'm sure there are many things you "don't quite get". why bother us with them?

30

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Good bye to Forced Divorce process Says:

From now on. Those Hisbands who decide to Not give a Get for some reason. Will have a free ride.

those terrible Hisbands! and all those periods, capital letters and half-sentences!

Don't you think your time would be better spent in a remedial English class than spouting nonsense here?

31

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:14 PM ayoyo Says:

The first thing is nobody forced these jews to get involved in ''gittin'' there are other ways to make a living without doing things beyond the law of the country that they live in.#2 a bes din operates only as an arbitrator between parties.Thats all of the power it has.It cant force anything on the parties involved, they have agreed to arbitration.

32

 Nov 16, 2015 at 07:59 PM SandraM Says:

Reply to #11  
skeptic Says:

Fantastic news! Four years is a bit low, but still fair for the crimes he committed. Of course, if people would move passed bronze age superstition where women were considered property and need to be "released" by their husbands, we would not have this problem in the first place. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

You have no heart.

33

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:28 PM sruly Says:

to all those bashing these guys just stop for a moment and think it it was your daughter suffering. Just pause and think what you might do.

34

 Nov 16, 2015 at 09:29 PM yaakov doe Says:

Who's going to support the wives and children of these men?

35

 Nov 16, 2015 at 06:50 PM Moishe_Mechel Says:

Reply to #21  
1234567 Says:

Moishe mechel, you've got no clue what you are talking about. Keep your nonsense to yourself. If you have nothing intelligent to say about the matter, talking out of your behind is just foolish.

oh so Epstien & yormark r broke just like their Kensington stooges that they took advantage of ? let's make them a go fund me page

36

 Nov 16, 2015 at 08:07 PM Chaim Says:

After listening to the YouTube recordings of the FBI agents crying to Epstien and Wolmark about their sad situation I come to the following conclusion.
Epstein messed up by not doing his homework regarding the whole case, however the feds really played them well, listening to this so called chained woman (FBI) crying away almost made me cry too.
They threw in Kidnapping charges just to make a case out of it. The Feds know good and well that the whole Get problem is a yiddisha problem. I am not justifying violence, however this is a Jewish problem, the secular laws do not help a chained wife, in Israel men get arrested for not giving a get.

37

 Nov 16, 2015 at 08:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Let the court decide on all these goons. My opinions about more or less in their sentences won't affect anything.

Some commenters here have agendas. #9, for instance. displayed some honesty. Marriage is all about two people loving each other, building a home and family. Divorce is all about hate, revenge, and victory. Batei Din and courts are arenas where the competitive sport gets played. It leaves those who work those systems (court - lawyers, B"D - toanim and dayanim) with the money, while the warring parties either win or lose, but eventually lose anyway. Knowing firsthand, as well as from the experience of others, the stats are about 50-50. This includes who is "right", who committed the actions that destroyed the marriage, who deserves the kids, money, house, etc. Men are apt to use their get-giving halachic position for leverage. Women are apt to use various other tools (reports of domestic violence, accusations of child abuse, spreading false stories, parental alienation, etc.) to their advantage. Truth, integrity, midos tovos, basic menchlichkeit, etc. are in high demand and low supply.

If people could only agree to disagree and handle divorce nicely.

38

 Nov 17, 2015 at 05:06 AM BarryLS1 Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

why should jewish men continue to suffer under wicked ladies who play the sympathy card? Why?

The men are suffering for refusing to give their wives a GET? That's perverted logic.

Obviously, not all women are innocent of wrongdoing, but it is rare for there to be a legitimate excuse for not giving a GET.

39

 Nov 17, 2015 at 08:10 AM #36 Says:

so true - the fbi's job is to root out evil people not to create setups so decent people screw up

40

 Nov 17, 2015 at 08:36 AM Chaim Says:

The whole divorce system in our circles is a big shame and needs to be changed.
Why is it so difficult to part ways peacefully and just call it a "mismatch" ? Especially by chasidim where it isn't the norm to date (only by a second Shidduch for some reason) it is so easy for a mismatch to occur. On average a chassidisha shidduch takes around 24 hours from B'show to L'chaim which is extremely reckless in my opinion. The same person will take a month of Sunday's to make a decision on a much smaller topic (when he buy an Esrog or leases a car, etc) I feel that Shidduchim are locked in far to quick and not thought through rationally. Not for nothing do we have so many divorces lately especially by young couples.
If people start changing their attitude towards divorces we won't need the services that these rabbis provided. Next time you hear someone got divorced the next question does not have to be, why, who is at fault, who is the crazy one, who was mean to whom, who is the crazy one? etc. Just class it as a simple mismatch or an oversight that should've never happened from the "get go" no pun intended.
If parents would make sure that their kids shidduchim are done with more "Yishuv Hadaas" and not in a pressured manner you will all see the divorce rate drop and more happier and compatible couples around. Parents will not have to cry and say to themselves "what were we thinking" or the very popular phrase "Hashem made me blind", Hashem doesn't get the blame because he never instructed us to make such important life decisions in such a reckless manner. If there is one decision in life that needs to be done slowly and carefully it is the marriage of our children. After all we don't want them hurt and suffering. Divorces break families to pieces and leave the couple with ever lasted trauma drama.

41

 Nov 17, 2015 at 11:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

Let the court decide on all these goons. My opinions about more or less in their sentences won't affect anything.

Some commenters here have agendas. #9, for instance. displayed some honesty. Marriage is all about two people loving each other, building a home and family. Divorce is all about hate, revenge, and victory. Batei Din and courts are arenas where the competitive sport gets played. It leaves those who work those systems (court - lawyers, B"D - toanim and dayanim) with the money, while the warring parties either win or lose, but eventually lose anyway. Knowing firsthand, as well as from the experience of others, the stats are about 50-50. This includes who is "right", who committed the actions that destroyed the marriage, who deserves the kids, money, house, etc. Men are apt to use their get-giving halachic position for leverage. Women are apt to use various other tools (reports of domestic violence, accusations of child abuse, spreading false stories, parental alienation, etc.) to their advantage. Truth, integrity, midos tovos, basic menchlichkeit, etc. are in high demand and low supply.

If people could only agree to disagree and handle divorce nicely.

Thank you very well said.

42

 Nov 17, 2015 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Chaim Says:

The whole divorce system in our circles is a big shame and needs to be changed.
Why is it so difficult to part ways peacefully and just call it a "mismatch" ? Especially by chasidim where it isn't the norm to date (only by a second Shidduch for some reason) it is so easy for a mismatch to occur. On average a chassidisha shidduch takes around 24 hours from B'show to L'chaim which is extremely reckless in my opinion. The same person will take a month of Sunday's to make a decision on a much smaller topic (when he buy an Esrog or leases a car, etc) I feel that Shidduchim are locked in far to quick and not thought through rationally. Not for nothing do we have so many divorces lately especially by young couples.
If people start changing their attitude towards divorces we won't need the services that these rabbis provided. Next time you hear someone got divorced the next question does not have to be, why, who is at fault, who is the crazy one, who was mean to whom, who is the crazy one? etc. Just class it as a simple mismatch or an oversight that should've never happened from the "get go" no pun intended.
If parents would make sure that their kids shidduchim are done with more "Yishuv Hadaas" and not in a pressured manner you will all see the divorce rate drop and more happier and compatible couples around. Parents will not have to cry and say to themselves "what were we thinking" or the very popular phrase "Hashem made me blind", Hashem doesn't get the blame because he never instructed us to make such important life decisions in such a reckless manner. If there is one decision in life that needs to be done slowly and carefully it is the marriage of our children. After all we don't want them hurt and suffering. Divorces break families to pieces and leave the couple with ever lasted trauma drama.

News for you. The shidduchim that take longer to complete fare no better.

* People on display, as are prospective chasanim and kallahs, put on an image, hiding their real selves. This image often continues through the engagement.

* Much information about the prospects is withheld, sometimes with rabbinical support. Information available tends to be sketchy and standardized.

* Professional help is still shunned by many when it can be so useful.

* Preparation for marriage is alarmingly poor. Even chosson and kallah teachers say way too little, and few followup after the wedding. Much of the needed midos should be part of our standard chinuch in yeshivos, but is absent.

* Families often enter the marital dispute, making full fledged wars. Rabbonim take sides and make matters worse.

* Gittin/divorce has become an industry. Therapists, shalom bayis machers, rabbonim, toanim, dayanim, lawyers, and support groups (online as well) all make varying degrees of parnosoh, and have every reason to generate and perpetuate the flow of clientele.

* Certain people should never get married. Hard to say, but painfully true.

43

 Nov 17, 2015 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
sruly Says:

to all those bashing these guys just stop for a moment and think it it was your daughter suffering. Just pause and think what you might do.

And if it was your son beaten by one of these guys becuase your daugher in-law made ridicolus demands then ran around screaming aguna what would you say then?

44

 Nov 17, 2015 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Chaim Says:

After listening to the YouTube recordings of the FBI agents crying to Epstien and Wolmark about their sad situation I come to the following conclusion.
Epstein messed up by not doing his homework regarding the whole case, however the feds really played them well, listening to this so called chained woman (FBI) crying away almost made me cry too.
They threw in Kidnapping charges just to make a case out of it. The Feds know good and well that the whole Get problem is a yiddisha problem. I am not justifying violence, however this is a Jewish problem, the secular laws do not help a chained wife, in Israel men get arrested for not giving a get.

Chaim,

Since you listened to the tapes so well now imagine a lady who is very demanding yet a good shpiler like those FBI guys. She can play on Epsteins emotions too. Yet its sometimes the case that its her fault due to her unmangaebale reckless demands. Thats why its a dangerous game.

45

 Nov 17, 2015 at 11:40 AM #16 Says:

Reply to #38  
BarryLS1 Says:

The men are suffering for refusing to give their wives a GET? That's perverted logic.

Obviously, not all women are innocent of wrongdoing, but it is rare for there to be a legitimate excuse for not giving a GET.

Barry, I assure you that its not rare at all. I know a few who went thru just as I described. The men are suffering because women only want a get under crazy conditions. When the man refuses to give into those conditons she runs to Epstein and his likes crying aguna. A woman can play the aguna card quite well.

Now I am not saying its always the case or that its even the majorty of aguna cases. But I think it happens more often than you imagine.

46

 Nov 17, 2015 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Chaim Says:

The whole divorce system in our circles is a big shame and needs to be changed.
Why is it so difficult to part ways peacefully and just call it a "mismatch" ? Especially by chasidim where it isn't the norm to date (only by a second Shidduch for some reason) it is so easy for a mismatch to occur. On average a chassidisha shidduch takes around 24 hours from B'show to L'chaim which is extremely reckless in my opinion. The same person will take a month of Sunday's to make a decision on a much smaller topic (when he buy an Esrog or leases a car, etc) I feel that Shidduchim are locked in far to quick and not thought through rationally. Not for nothing do we have so many divorces lately especially by young couples.
If people start changing their attitude towards divorces we won't need the services that these rabbis provided. Next time you hear someone got divorced the next question does not have to be, why, who is at fault, who is the crazy one, who was mean to whom, who is the crazy one? etc. Just class it as a simple mismatch or an oversight that should've never happened from the "get go" no pun intended.
If parents would make sure that their kids shidduchim are done with more "Yishuv Hadaas" and not in a pressured manner you will all see the divorce rate drop and more happier and compatible couples around. Parents will not have to cry and say to themselves "what were we thinking" or the very popular phrase "Hashem made me blind", Hashem doesn't get the blame because he never instructed us to make such important life decisions in such a reckless manner. If there is one decision in life that needs to be done slowly and carefully it is the marriage of our children. After all we don't want them hurt and suffering. Divorces break families to pieces and leave the couple with ever lasted trauma drama.

Chaim,
I don't know if you have children or not. But when there are children involved its very hard to just call it a mismatch and divorce peacfully. If I came to you and said your finger is mismached to your body let me just cut it off peacefully what would you say? A child is part & parcel of mine or any dad or mom's being. Nobody wants to give up bentching a child or making kiddush friday night without my child crying and kvetching for grape juice on my side. Its the biggest brocho.

I do agree that people shuld work on themselves to resolve difficulties peacefully but its a very hard task.

47

 Nov 17, 2015 at 02:00 PM BarryLS1 Says:

Reply to #45  
#16 Says:

Barry, I assure you that its not rare at all. I know a few who went thru just as I described. The men are suffering because women only want a get under crazy conditions. When the man refuses to give into those conditons she runs to Epstein and his likes crying aguna. A woman can play the aguna card quite well.

Now I am not saying its always the case or that its even the majorty of aguna cases. But I think it happens more often than you imagine.

I know of a few cases where the women did some horrendous things, but for the most part, that is the exception, not the rule.

48

 Nov 17, 2015 at 03:06 PM Anonymous Says:

people who are lucky enough not to be one of those who are in the midst of, or having gone throughout a divorce, are blessedly very ignorant of what really goes on. My gripe is with those neighbors and so called friends who take sides with never even hearing one words of one spouse's side. Don't be so stupid as to say "no it can't be that he was abusive-he's such a great person, a real mentsh to the neighbors, frum, has an important job, bla, bla.

49

 Nov 17, 2015 at 04:10 PM Chaim Says:

Reply to #46  
Anonymous Says:

Chaim,
I don't know if you have children or not. But when there are children involved its very hard to just call it a mismatch and divorce peacfully. If I came to you and said your finger is mismached to your body let me just cut it off peacefully what would you say? A child is part & parcel of mine or any dad or mom's being. Nobody wants to give up bentching a child or making kiddush friday night without my child crying and kvetching for grape juice on my side. Its the biggest brocho.

I do agree that people shuld work on themselves to resolve difficulties peacefully but its a very hard task.

I recently attended a levaya of a lady that was divorced for many years.
Her kids were maspid their mother and spoke about how she was Mechabed their father even after the parents got divorced.
The children said that they did not remember a stressful moment as a result of their parents divorce.
Unfortunately this case is not the norm but does prove that a divorce can happen in a peaceful manner.
I never said it is easy, however it can and should be done in a Shulemdiga way.
At the end of the day most couples that get divorced never had a good marriage from day one, which I call and "mismatch" so it shouldn't be so difficult to class it that way and continue life. Bitter and painful divorce cases affect the children tremendously. This needs to stop.!

50

 Nov 17, 2015 at 08:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #49  
Chaim Says:

I recently attended a levaya of a lady that was divorced for many years.
Her kids were maspid their mother and spoke about how she was Mechabed their father even after the parents got divorced.
The children said that they did not remember a stressful moment as a result of their parents divorce.
Unfortunately this case is not the norm but does prove that a divorce can happen in a peaceful manner.
I never said it is easy, however it can and should be done in a Shulemdiga way.
At the end of the day most couples that get divorced never had a good marriage from day one, which I call and "mismatch" so it shouldn't be so difficult to class it that way and continue life. Bitter and painful divorce cases affect the children tremendously. This needs to stop.!

Unfortunately not everyone lives In a Dream world like you. Life isn't a fairy tale and that case wasn't the norm. Obviously if the feelings were bad enough to require a divorce, most times the divorce will be bitter as well especially with custody battles, husbands hiding money and lying in beis/din, etc,

51

 Jun 23, 2016 at 05:25 PM kyjacob Says:

Reply to #6  
berylyoseph Says:

Now his wife (and the wives of his co conspirators) is a 'Aguna', who will force him to give her a 'get' ? Or maybe Rabbi Epstien or Rabbi Wolmark can give her a heter to date other men while he is away ?

What? They are not Agunas

52

Sign-in to post a comment

Scroll Up
Advertisements:

Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!