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Rockland County, NY - State And Local East Ramapo Officials Hit With Lawsuit Over Lack Of Secular Education In Hasidic Yeshivas

Published on: November 20, 2015 01:22 PM
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FILE Photo: one of the yeshivahs named in the lawsuit is Yeshiva Avir Yakov in New Square. Photo: VIN ReaderFILE Photo: one of the yeshivahs named in the lawsuit is Yeshiva Avir Yakov in New Square. Photo: VIN Reader

Rockland County, NY - State education officials along with members of the East Ramapo Central District School Board and administrators from four yeshivas were hit with a class-action lawsuit on Friday by parents of current students and ex-yeshiva students who charge they are failing to provide adequate secular educations for boys.

LOHUD.com (http://lohud.us/1MGMGqa) reports that in a 42-page document filed U. S. Southern District Court in Manhattan on Friday, seven plaintiffs contend that the defendants named showed “willful blindness and deliberate refusal to acknowledge that yeshiva students need, require, and are legally entitled to, at the very least, a minimally adequate secular education in addition to their religious education.”

The suit further charges that four specific Hasidic yeshivas—-located in Monsey, Spring Valley, and New Square—-not only don’t teach English, but fail at providing children with “basic literacy, calculating, and verbal skills necessary to enable children to eventually function productively as civil participants.”

The suit, which was filed on behalf of the plaintiffs by Advocates for Justice, is seeking a “gradual introduction” of secular studies by educators who are deemed “competent” in English instruction, as well as oversight from the state in enforcing a minimum of thee-hours daily of secular education.

Former yeshiva students who are part of the suit are seeking educational remediation program support as part of an award.

Named as defendants in the suit are Merryl Tisch, Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents, MaryEllen Elia Commissioner of the State Education Department New York, the State Department of Education, the New York Board of Regents and New York State.

Defendants also include the East Ramapo school district and the board of education.

The four yeshivas and administrators named as defendants are Yiedel Spitzer of the United Talmudical Academy in Spring Valley and Monsey; Moshe Kohn of Yeshiva Darkei Emunah in Spring Valley; Ernest Schwartz of Yeshiva Tzion Yosef in Spring Valley; and Eluzer Moshel and Dov Goldman of Yeshiva Avir Yakov in New Square

Laura Barbieri, an attorney with Advocates for Justice, said it took considerable time to pull the suit together due to fear from the plaintiffs that social pressure and retaliation from the tight-knit Hasidic community may be forthcoming.

Accordingly, the suit states, “They and their families risk being shunned or expelled from the community, having their businesses boycotted and ruined, suffering verbal threats and abuses, physical assault and property damage.”

Barbieri added, “In the East Ramapo Central school district, we primarily represent the parents and children of that district. We believe that they are being injured by the board and the district. Those individuals, those defendants, who we have charged with committing various infractions of the constitution, have taken their interests and used them in favor of the religious communities. And that puts the public school children at risk, particularly the quality of their education and the lack of sound, basic education that is resulting from the decisions the East Ramapo Central School District is making.”


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1

 Nov 20, 2015 at 02:21 PM Anonymous Says:

To all these ignorant dropouts of the heimishe chasidishe system. I have 1 msg to you. You r Mosrim 1 of a kind! You bring on a chilul Hashem of trmendous magnitude. My children grew up in the so called uneducational system and are far more intelligent that you guys claim to be. I saw an interview with the so called superhero blaming everyone around him. Yes, we need some upgrading but lawsuit??!!! So far I see that the REAL successful richies come from OUR "none"educational schools. Theyre brilliant, articulate and raking millions without degrees and so called proper education. They cut thru the chase and climb to the top. A lot to be proud of. Senseless baseless accusations. What you guys acquire in 10 years we do in 10 weeks. U know what brains are!??!! Something u guys have no clue of. Chilul Hashem!

2

 Nov 20, 2015 at 02:22 PM Stop The Madness Says:

What I want to know is, what are these kids doing a whole day in lieu of secular studies? Can a ninth grader really sit & learn a whole day??? I have been a counselor for some of these boys. They end up just hocking about nonsense all day. They have zero appreciation for time. The chasdisha couhrim end up hocking about rebas and the yeshivish are wasting time about rosh yeshivas. if your eleventh grader is learning flasig then OK no secular studies. But 99% of ninth graders are not. Rabosi wake up do you wnat your kids to grow up being a bunch of bored hockers. then stop this nonsense. Both chasidsh and yeshivish have t stop this no going to secular studies trend

3

 Nov 20, 2015 at 02:48 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm not commenting on the value of the suit. However, including Merryl Tisch, Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents, in the suit is laughable. Her immediate defense should be "Me favor Hasidim? Ridiculous!" I'm not saying she is a self-hating Jew, but she certainly is not in favor of the Orthodox, let alone the "ultra-Orthodox."

4

 Nov 20, 2015 at 03:20 PM Anonymous Says:

These politicians, askanim and rabbonim should be charged with child abuse for denying the yiinglach the most basic educational and social skills to earn a parnassah and function in a diverse society.

5

 Nov 20, 2015 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:

When the names of these parents leak out, I hope they are prepared to be shunned. They will need to move out of the area, their kids will be expelled and their businesses destroyed. It takes extreme bravery to have these kids educated. I wish them well.

6

 Nov 20, 2015 at 04:10 PM ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

The house of cards are finally starting to fall. First Brooklyn, and now this. These schools take in millions of dollars in funds earmarked for text books, computers science lab equipment, etc. How much do you think actually gets spent on any of that? I am guessing close to zero. People need to go to jail for this fraud and I anxiously await that wonderful day.

7

 Nov 21, 2015 at 07:15 PM Jinx Says:

Reply to #6  
ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

The house of cards are finally starting to fall. First Brooklyn, and now this. These schools take in millions of dollars in funds earmarked for text books, computers science lab equipment, etc. How much do you think actually gets spent on any of that? I am guessing close to zero. People need to go to jail for this fraud and I anxiously await that wonderful day.

Thats because you are a shaygitz and hate frum Jews. But we know that about you from many. many previous stupid posts of your. Next

8

 Nov 21, 2015 at 07:20 PM Longwave Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

To all these ignorant dropouts of the heimishe chasidishe system. I have 1 msg to you. You r Mosrim 1 of a kind! You bring on a chilul Hashem of trmendous magnitude. My children grew up in the so called uneducational system and are far more intelligent that you guys claim to be. I saw an interview with the so called superhero blaming everyone around him. Yes, we need some upgrading but lawsuit??!!! So far I see that the REAL successful richies come from OUR "none"educational schools. Theyre brilliant, articulate and raking millions without degrees and so called proper education. They cut thru the chase and climb to the top. A lot to be proud of. Senseless baseless accusations. What you guys acquire in 10 years we do in 10 weeks. U know what brains are!??!! Something u guys have no clue of. Chilul Hashem!

To number 1
Can you give an example of the types of jobs that these kids get? You claim that they make tons of money without an education. Besides nursing homes and heads of meat companies - what will they excel in?

9

 Nov 21, 2015 at 07:31 PM ber Says:

Reply to #6  
ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

The house of cards are finally starting to fall. First Brooklyn, and now this. These schools take in millions of dollars in funds earmarked for text books, computers science lab equipment, etc. How much do you think actually gets spent on any of that? I am guessing close to zero. People need to go to jail for this fraud and I anxiously await that wonderful day.

#6 you're a soine yisroel as evident in all yor posts...so nothing new from you...also your besmirching the holy Lakewood seviva.chane it to 'Vatican guy.' suits you much better

10

 Nov 21, 2015 at 08:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

The house of cards are finally starting to fall. First Brooklyn, and now this. These schools take in millions of dollars in funds earmarked for text books, computers science lab equipment, etc. How much do you think actually gets spent on any of that? I am guessing close to zero. People need to go to jail for this fraud and I anxiously await that wonderful day.

With u being the first to lead!!!!

11

 Nov 21, 2015 at 09:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

To all these ignorant dropouts of the heimishe chasidishe system. I have 1 msg to you. You r Mosrim 1 of a kind! You bring on a chilul Hashem of trmendous magnitude. My children grew up in the so called uneducational system and are far more intelligent that you guys claim to be. I saw an interview with the so called superhero blaming everyone around him. Yes, we need some upgrading but lawsuit??!!! So far I see that the REAL successful richies come from OUR "none"educational schools. Theyre brilliant, articulate and raking millions without degrees and so called proper education. They cut thru the chase and climb to the top. A lot to be proud of. Senseless baseless accusations. What you guys acquire in 10 years we do in 10 weeks. U know what brains are!??!! Something u guys have no clue of. Chilul Hashem!

your illiteracy makes a much more compelling argument supporting the lawsuit than any of your ranting.

12

 Nov 21, 2015 at 09:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I'm not commenting on the value of the suit. However, including Merryl Tisch, Chancellor of the New York State Board of Regents, in the suit is laughable. Her immediate defense should be "Me favor Hasidim? Ridiculous!" I'm not saying she is a self-hating Jew, but she certainly is not in favor of the Orthodox, let alone the "ultra-Orthodox."

who cares whether she is in favor of orthodox Jews, that is not what the suit is about. your defense for her is ridiculous.

13

 Nov 21, 2015 at 09:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

When the names of these parents leak out, I hope they are prepared to be shunned. They will need to move out of the area, their kids will be expelled and their businesses destroyed. It takes extreme bravery to have these kids educated. I wish them well.

which side are you supporting? your comment makes no sense...

14

 Nov 21, 2015 at 10:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Longwave Says:

To number 1
Can you give an example of the types of jobs that these kids get? You claim that they make tons of money without an education. Besides nursing homes and heads of meat companies - what will they excel in?

Yes u ignoramus! I work in a real estate office. The biggest developers today are the ones that had minimal or basically no education according to the despicable lawsuit. They are all filthy rich while Im assuming the most U can make out of YOUR life is cutting meat. Come to Brooklyn and see whos building. Chasidim chasidim chasidim. Your blatant hatred is so evident. I have no problem or wld even be on the side of better education but theres a way of doing things. This is despicable!!

15

 Nov 21, 2015 at 10:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

To all these ignorant dropouts of the heimishe chasidishe system. I have 1 msg to you. You r Mosrim 1 of a kind! You bring on a chilul Hashem of trmendous magnitude. My children grew up in the so called uneducational system and are far more intelligent that you guys claim to be. I saw an interview with the so called superhero blaming everyone around him. Yes, we need some upgrading but lawsuit??!!! So far I see that the REAL successful richies come from OUR "none"educational schools. Theyre brilliant, articulate and raking millions without degrees and so called proper education. They cut thru the chase and climb to the top. A lot to be proud of. Senseless baseless accusations. What you guys acquire in 10 years we do in 10 weeks. U know what brains are!??!! Something u guys have no clue of. Chilul Hashem!

Even in Europe before WW2 all of our grandparents went to public school. In some European cities all kids were required to go to school even on Shabbos (The Yiddish kids were not writing on Shabbos). Yiddish cheder was only on Sunday and after 3 o’clock.

Now what’s your statistic on you idiotic statement. How many millionaires do we have percent? Most chasidish families which is about p wouldn’t be able to survive without government subsidies, there is a reason why Kiryas Joel is now called the poorest village in America. “70 percent of its 21,000 residents live below federal poverty levels with nearly half of the village's households reporting annual incomes less than $15,000”.

How many young couples live in Brooklyn with 4-5 kids in a 2 bedroom apartments? Were the few percent rich landlords are taking full advantage of our poor brothers’ situation.

16

 Nov 21, 2015 at 11:06 PM concerned Says:

I know that this is not the solution to the overall problem but the lack of literacy in English could be tackled without resistance if the boys were made to read Jewish topics in English - like the mesilas yeshorim, tomer devorah, even kitzur shulchan aruch or mishnayos.

17

 Nov 21, 2015 at 11:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Even in Europe before WW2 all of our grandparents went to public school. In some European cities all kids were required to go to school even on Shabbos (The Yiddish kids were not writing on Shabbos). Yiddish cheder was only on Sunday and after 3 o’clock.

Now what’s your statistic on you idiotic statement. How many millionaires do we have percent? Most chasidish families which is about p wouldn’t be able to survive without government subsidies, there is a reason why Kiryas Joel is now called the poorest village in America. “70 percent of its 21,000 residents live below federal poverty levels with nearly half of the village's households reporting annual incomes less than $15,000”.

How many young couples live in Brooklyn with 4-5 kids in a 2 bedroom apartments? Were the few percent rich landlords are taking full advantage of our poor brothers’ situation.

Seriously? Our parents went to public school because the sonei yisroel governments forced them to. they suffered corporal punishment for not attending on Shabbos and yom tov. Would you like to live in that society today? Perhaps you are not frum at all so it is what you prefer! Your choice but don't impose it on others.
Yes, education is important. However, there are college grads who become homeless bums because they can't find jobs and there are yeshiva boys, chasidish and modern and everything in between, who became millionaires. You need to be ambitious and believe in hashem.

18

 Nov 21, 2015 at 11:41 PM whataworld Says:

Reply to #8  
Longwave Says:

To number 1
Can you give an example of the types of jobs that these kids get? You claim that they make tons of money without an education. Besides nursing homes and heads of meat companies - what will they excel in?

Have you ever heard retail? People make money by opening shops. Selling on Amazon, Ebay, neighborhood shops etc. construction, real estate, developers, mortgage brokers, service companies like payroll companies, mortgage brokers and yes even my accountant is a graduate from one of these schools. I know graduates from these yeshivas that work in all of the above. Stop pouting, roll up your sleeves and get to work. or sink in your bitterness....

19

 Nov 21, 2015 at 11:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ModernLakewoodGuy Says:

The house of cards are finally starting to fall. First Brooklyn, and now this. These schools take in millions of dollars in funds earmarked for text books, computers science lab equipment, etc. How much do you think actually gets spent on any of that? I am guessing close to zero. People need to go to jail for this fraud and I anxiously await that wonderful day.

You're a sonei Yisroel and if ur indeed Jewish, you'd better do Teshuva quickly.

20

 Nov 22, 2015 at 12:26 AM A1826 Says:

I like the way our community always have this argument that we have millionaires without education. Having a few doesn't mean we make it. Making it would mean at least not having debts AND not on government assistance.. Show me how many we have of that. How about being able to fill out a form when you take your child to the doctor without calling your wife for answers? How about knowing just basics! Our grandparents spoke Hungarian! It's only after the war that we decided it's mesorah. It's a crime that when you have a growing family you have to take English classes to even get somewhere. Our boys have a long day in cheider and they can't even read and write! Wasted time and chutzpah is the norm. We should have made the change so it would not get to this.

21

 Nov 22, 2015 at 12:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Longwave Says:

To number 1
Can you give an example of the types of jobs that these kids get? You claim that they make tons of money without an education. Besides nursing homes and heads of meat companies - what will they excel in?

Boy, go up and down the biggies in the real estate world. None, of them have degrees & are possess keen insight & razor sharp minds that are direct result of yes...... Gemara!

22

 Nov 22, 2015 at 12:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Even in Europe before WW2 all of our grandparents went to public school. In some European cities all kids were required to go to school even on Shabbos (The Yiddish kids were not writing on Shabbos). Yiddish cheder was only on Sunday and after 3 o’clock.

Now what’s your statistic on you idiotic statement. How many millionaires do we have percent? Most chasidish families which is about p wouldn’t be able to survive without government subsidies, there is a reason why Kiryas Joel is now called the poorest village in America. “70 percent of its 21,000 residents live below federal poverty levels with nearly half of the village's households reporting annual incomes less than $15,000”.

How many young couples live in Brooklyn with 4-5 kids in a 2 bedroom apartments? Were the few percent rich landlords are taking full advantage of our poor brothers’ situation.

And your point is?

23

 Nov 22, 2015 at 01:03 AM Judith Says:

If the graduates the no-English yeshivas are doing so great, why is Kiryas Joel the poorest neighborhood in the nation? And why are 50% of Haredi families living below the poverty line, according to studies? For larger families of more than 6 ppl, the poverty is even more widespread.

24

 Nov 22, 2015 at 01:05 AM sick of these loser crybabies!! Says:

I'm agreeing comments made above, from people like #1.

You guys would have left normal non chasidishe yeshivas too! Let's not kid ourselves. You probably have learning etc issues that were never dealt with and you're looking to blame anyone BUT yourselves.

25

 Nov 22, 2015 at 01:08 AM $19,076 Says:

NYC Public school pays 19,076.00 per child per year. (tax dollars)
Yeshivos pay (actual) around 5,000 per child per year.


Public school graduates are more likely to commit violent crimes and get arrested.

Yeshiva graduates are more likely to get married and get a job and become successful businessmen.

26

 Nov 22, 2015 at 02:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Seriously? Our parents went to public school because the sonei yisroel governments forced them to. they suffered corporal punishment for not attending on Shabbos and yom tov. Would you like to live in that society today? Perhaps you are not frum at all so it is what you prefer! Your choice but don't impose it on others.
Yes, education is important. However, there are college grads who become homeless bums because they can't find jobs and there are yeshiva boys, chasidish and modern and everything in between, who became millionaires. You need to be ambitious and believe in hashem.

You are really hooligan! Your mind made up some imaginary statistics which you would hope it’s true.

From US Department of Labor’s websites:

The unemployment rate in April 2015 was 5.4 percent. For people age 25 and older with a bachelor's degree or more education, the unemployment rate was 2.7 percent in April 2015…

So let me straighten this out for you; maybe 10% of college graduates are not successful in their career; and only 10% of the chasidish people are rich.

And do you know why some chasidem have become so rich is because they are taking full advantage from our local communities housing crisis. The longer the crisis will go on the more money they will make on the backs of the poor population.

27

 Nov 22, 2015 at 10:42 AM favish Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

You are really hooligan! Your mind made up some imaginary statistics which you would hope it’s true.

From US Department of Labor’s websites:

The unemployment rate in April 2015 was 5.4 percent. For people age 25 and older with a bachelor's degree or more education, the unemployment rate was 2.7 percent in April 2015…

So let me straighten this out for you; maybe 10% of college graduates are not successful in their career; and only 10% of the chasidish people are rich.

And do you know why some chasidem have become so rich is because they are taking full advantage from our local communities housing crisis. The longer the crisis will go on the more money they will make on the backs of the poor population.

Yes, and my grocery store owner has 4 branches in our neighborhood and is very rich. But of course he's taking full advantage of the customers who need food to eat (the same with my shoe store etc). But don't fret, as soon as people stop eating he'll stop being rich and then he'll have to take a college education and go to the bowery and collect alms with all the derelicts. And the same with my neighbor the computer programmer, taking full advantage of the need for programming etc etc. Some are ger chassidim, bobov satmar (you know those backward gettho Jews you 'love' so much

28

 Nov 22, 2015 at 10:57 AM favish Says:

Reply to #20  
A1826 Says:

I like the way our community always have this argument that we have millionaires without education. Having a few doesn't mean we make it. Making it would mean at least not having debts AND not on government assistance.. Show me how many we have of that. How about being able to fill out a form when you take your child to the doctor without calling your wife for answers? How about knowing just basics! Our grandparents spoke Hungarian! It's only after the war that we decided it's mesorah. It's a crime that when you have a growing family you have to take English classes to even get somewhere. Our boys have a long day in cheider and they can't even read and write! Wasted time and chutzpah is the norm. We should have made the change so it would not get to this.

from your hashkofos it is clear that you are not from 'our'...so please don't lump us with you.

29

 Nov 22, 2015 at 01:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
$19,076 Says:

NYC Public school pays 19,076.00 per child per year. (tax dollars)
Yeshivos pay (actual) around 5,000 per child per year.


Public school graduates are more likely to commit violent crimes and get arrested.

Yeshiva graduates are more likely to get married and get a job and become successful businessmen.

Sorry you can't compare the low income children in Public school to our kids. They have social/ family issues that impede their success. A stable family is vital toward a child success. So to say that yeshivas compared to public schools do a fine job is dishonest. After all we don't have to contend with the same social issues. If you would like to compare our yeshivas with public schools you must compare it with some high class strong community nieghboorhood like a nice white suburban long island or Connecticut neighborhood. In that case the public schools do a far greater job.

30

 Nov 22, 2015 at 01:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
ber Says:

#6 you're a soine yisroel as evident in all yor posts...so nothing new from you...also your besmirching the holy Lakewood seviva.chane it to 'Vatican guy.' suits you much better

"the holy Lakewood seviva"???
You mean the fact the boys high schools in Lakewood produce a bunch of batlenaim and hockers? Because you think that 9th graders can learn a whole day? To be clear I am totally pro kollel. I am not one of these guys that sit and knock lakewood kollels a whole day. I believe the overwhelming majorty of kollel guys are honest and truly learn most of the time. But 9th graders have zitzfliesh to learn? who are you kidding? I see then first hand wasting away the day. So why no English??

31

 Nov 22, 2015 at 02:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
$19,076 Says:

NYC Public school pays 19,076.00 per child per year. (tax dollars)
Yeshivos pay (actual) around 5,000 per child per year.


Public school graduates are more likely to commit violent crimes and get arrested.

Yeshiva graduates are more likely to get married and get a job and become successful businessmen.

"Yeshiva graduates are more likely to get married and get a job and become successful businessmen."

How many Yeshiva graduates in New Square and KJ get a job and become successful businessmen?

They can't read or write English, can't add or subtract and can't even read street signs. They know nothing about communication skills, history, science, nutrition, grammar, etc. How can you say they are successful businessmen with such a lack of skills?

32

 Nov 23, 2015 at 09:29 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Yes u ignoramus! I work in a real estate office. The biggest developers today are the ones that had minimal or basically no education according to the despicable lawsuit. They are all filthy rich while Im assuming the most U can make out of YOUR life is cutting meat. Come to Brooklyn and see whos building. Chasidim chasidim chasidim. Your blatant hatred is so evident. I have no problem or wld even be on the side of better education but theres a way of doing things. This is despicable!!

so you are claiming that it is a positive to be functionally illiterate, and know nothing of math, science, geography, etc., in order to becvome financially successful?

TAnd you call other people 'ignoramus'?

This has to be one of the stupidest comments ever posted in VIN. congratulations!

33

 Nov 23, 2015 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
favish Says:

Yes, and my grocery store owner has 4 branches in our neighborhood and is very rich. But of course he's taking full advantage of the customers who need food to eat (the same with my shoe store etc). But don't fret, as soon as people stop eating he'll stop being rich and then he'll have to take a college education and go to the bowery and collect alms with all the derelicts. And the same with my neighbor the computer programmer, taking full advantage of the need for programming etc etc. Some are ger chassidim, bobov satmar (you know those backward gettho Jews you 'love' so much

Favish, and how did he come to own four groceries and become very rich? by jnot knowing how to read an order or invoice and not knowing math to calculate prices and inventory? and where did he get the money to first buy these four groceries?

You really ARE too stupid to live, and yet, you keep turning
up here on VIN like a bad penny. no wonder you are home all day to write your screeds; no one in their right mind would hire you for anything more than manual labor, like janitorial services.

34

 Nov 23, 2015 at 10:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

You're a sonei Yisroel and if ur indeed Jewish, you'd better do Teshuva quickly.

thank you, I was wondering who is the false prophet in this generation who is arrogant enough to claim to speak for Gd.

Disagreeing with you does not make someone a sonei Yisroel; it makes him a sonei idiots with dumb ideas and comments, like you. and if indeed "ur" Jewish, which you seem to think depends on whether someone agrees with you, not with his mother's religion, "u" should know that "ur" is NOT the same as "You are", unless you are (ur) a little girl texting her friends.

and I would say that telling someone else to "do tshuvah quickly" is so far past calling the kettle black that no color has been discovered yet to adequately describe you.

You really really should seek mental health help quickly for no one else's sake but your own.

35

 Nov 24, 2015 at 12:02 PM favish Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

Favish, and how did he come to own four groceries and become very rich? by jnot knowing how to read an order or invoice and not knowing math to calculate prices and inventory? and where did he get the money to first buy these four groceries?

You really ARE too stupid to live, and yet, you keep turning
up here on VIN like a bad penny. no wonder you are home all day to write your screeds; no one in their right mind would hire you for anything more than manual labor, like janitorial services.

How did Mcdondald start? With 5,000 Franchises?' So that's all you can come up with, 'You are stupid....'?

36

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