RSS Feed
New York - Obama: Yes I'll Tax The Rich |
|
| |
Text Size
|
Despite speculation to the contrary, President-elect Barack Obama will act on his campaign promise and roll back the Bush administration's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, an Obama senior adviser told The Daily News.
The Obama camp rejected the overnight analysis by some pundits who speculated the language at his first news conference Friday suggested the President-elect was backing away from his tax plans.
"No change to the tax plan - at all," the aide said.
Obama plans to raise taxes on the wealthy by asking the Democratic-controlled Congress to allow President Bush's tax cuts to expire at the end of 2010. When they expire, it could pump in about $72 billion a year toward balancing the budget, according to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center.
The President-elect also will move quickly with his promised middle-class tax cut, even before the taxes on the rich expire, top Obama and congressional aides confirmed Saturday.
"In the campaign, Barack Obama proposed tax cuts for middle-class families as part of an overall plan that is a pro-growth, pro-jobs net tax cut," Obama senior adviser Stephanie Cutter told The News. "His views on how to get the economy growing have not changed."
And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) plans to get the permanent middle-class tax cuts passed and in Obama's hands in early 2009, Pelosi spokesman Brendan Daly confirmed.
Obama promised yesterday in a weekly radio address "to hit the ground running" to tackle the nation's economic woes. In the interim, he is urging President Bush to extend unemployment benefits, increase food stamps and approve a construction jobs bill to stimulate the economy.
More of today's headlines
“Washington - On November 9-10, 1938, Nazi storm troopers throughout Germany and Austria ransacked Jewish homes, marauded through the streets, broke windows of...”
Washington - President FDR'S Failure To Take Action After Kristallnacht Gave The Green Light To Germany
Israel - New Credit Card to Offer Discounts for Businesses Frequented by Haredim
Total92
Read Comments (92) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:
its sounds like he's taking nekoma of the slavery from 200 years ago!
2
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:05 PM Simple Economics Says:
I guess the "poor" and middle class wont be taxed but it will be harder for them to find or maintain jobs because the people with the money (read: THEIR BOSS!) is going to have their taxes raised. This means instead of paying the workers or even being able to hire more workers, they will be supporting King Obama.
President JFK, a Democrat, was the one to realize that the country does much better by cutting taxes from the people with money than raising them. He was the one to drop the tax rate on the "rich." That seemed to have been lost on the tax loving Liberals because the next major tax rate decrease for the rich was when President Reagan was in office. It was because of those tax breaks to the rich that stimulated the US economy in those times. Raising taxes DOES NOT stimulate economic growth.
3
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:01 PM Big Masmid Says:
what rich is he going to tax, all we hear about all day is that there are hardly any rich people left in USA, the economy stinks, stock market about to crash any day etc. who is left to pay the high taxes that he is talking about?
4
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:00 PM Anonymous Says:
LET MR MAYOR MIKE FEEL SOME OF THE PAIN
5
Nov 09, 2008 at 02:55 PM anti-Marxist Says:
The country is finished. There is no longer a reason to increase productivity or to continue being novel if it means that you will keep less of your hard earned money. Between this idea and the civil defense force when can we anticipate the KGB to open its doors here? Thank you to all those that elected this beheima.
6
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:21 PM YANKEL Says:
I see nothing wrong with taxing the rich. They have more than enough to live on comfortably, whereas many of us don't.
7
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:30 PM Anonymous Says:
Yankel-
You are a moron. when the rich get taxed they do two things: 1. pass on the effect in what thet produce sell etc. 2. cut their own workforce making the remainder work longer and harder (without a pay differential).
Trust me I know first hand.
Taxing the rich disproportionately stfles the economy.
8
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:
the difference is the rich work double or triple as hard then the so called poor (if they are working)
9
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:49 PM VELVEL Says:
Like Willie Sutton said about rabbing banks. You do it because that's where the money is. A 10% tax increase for Mayor Mike produces a lot more money than the same increase for Joe the Plumber..
10
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:38 PM Anonymous Says:
With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share.
11
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ the difference is the rich work double or triple as hard then the so called poor (if they are working) ”
I'm poor and I work 3 jobs to support my family and have been doing so for the last 20 years. I have not been rich or been successful but I have worked for rich successful people and I have found them to be for the most part very miserly when it comes to their workers.
I have also found that for the most part rich people do not work harder than myself. they work a lot less and enjoy life alot more. They are healtheir and can afford to take care of their health with the best medical care, can afford to send their children to any yeshiva they want, and are generally oblivious to the suffering of their poor neighbors in the community. I do not qualify for any government programs but If President Obama helps me out with his plans Shkoiach to him and as far as i am concerned to heck with the rich people - they are not doing enough good with their money but they are getting rich off of those of us who are poor. Signed, Bitter in Brooklyn.
12
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:56 PM Anonymous Says:
I'm surprised no one pointed out that another way to increase jobs is by cutting taxes for the middle class. You cut taxes for the middle class, which in turn spend more money on the most basic items, which then in turn generates more demand and thus more jobs. I'm not saying that should be the only way to generate jobs, but there's always two sides to every story. The experts on the dem sides are probably well aware of all the arguments.
13
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:55 PM Anonymous Says:
Way to go Barack!!! I am so excited. Finally my day has arrived. After all these years of being jealous of the rich I finally will have the freedom and money that will be provided for me from the rich. They have had their day and its over for all those punks. Barack will be offering me plenty of food stamps, he will pay my rent and health care for my entire family. God bless America and God bless barack Obama
14
Nov 09, 2008 at 03:52 PM Anonymous Says:
Stop getting so excited. The rich will still have a lower tax rate than they did under that red commie RONALD REAGAN. And I don't think they were suffering too much back then. So please stop being so dramatic.
15
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:08 PM There Goes Our Taxes (42K is rich according to Obama) Says:
“ With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share. ”
You are either forgetting or you are completely ignorant of the fact that if the store owner has to pay more in taxes or if the price goes up, he WILL pass it on to Chaim Yankel Consumerwitz.
How can you say they didnt pass it on? You are saying that no one got a raise? No one was hired? Thats rediculous.
I guess you dont own a business and you dont WANT to own one but the reason people have businesses is to MAKE money. You fargin people for making money?? I dont understand you.
His raising taxes is a disaster.
16
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:06 PM FLATBUSH ZAIDY Says:
#13 He knew those of you in Boro Park would like the plan.
17
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Way to go Barack!!! I am so excited. Finally my day has arrived. After all these years of being jealous of the rich I finally will have the freedom and money that will be provided for me from the rich. They have had their day and its over for all those punks. Barack will be offering me plenty of food stamps, he will pay my rent and health care for my entire family. God bless America and God bless barack Obama ”
I hope you only forgot to add the sarcastic .... After your remarks. I would suggest you don't stopaying your rent just yet...
18
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ LET MR MAYOR MIKE FEEL SOME OF THE PAIN ”
I was under the impression the readers of this site were comprised primarily of anshei shlomeinu I now see that that the grandchildren of chum are also posting comments
19
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I was under the impression the readers of this site were comprised primarily of anshei shlomeinu I now see that that the grandchildren of chum are also posting comments ”
Like theres a difference between people taking food stamps and welfare in lakewood and newark.....................................racist fool
20
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:41 PM anonymous Says:
Maybe your contributors should check the ratio of pay between executives and workers of Toyota , Toshiba, Sony and including German companies an d the highest ratio and disparity is found in the U.S. It is socialism when you a decent salary to a worker and provide health insurance but how about these executives who gained million on default insurance scheme
21
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:40 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I see nothing wrong with taxing the rich. They have more than enough to live on comfortably, whereas many of us don't. ”
Sounds like Eisov. Why don't you just become an armed robber yourself, or a burglar? Break into rich people's homes because they have more than enough? You think because someone else has more than you, it's OK to steal it? It's HIS MONEY, NOT YOURS. It doesn't matter how much he has and how little you have, you have no right to take even a penny away from him. You want tzedokah? Ask him nicely. And hiring a "government" to take it from him doesn't make it any better, just as hiring a hit man doesn't make murder any better.
22
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:38 PM anonymous Says:
when one reads of the salaries paid to the wall street executives who "begruben" the companies they "managed" which are now bailed out by a socialistic scheme concocted by the government then why not tax these ganoven. I retired from the government and worked for a contractor and my work is checked and if found faulty I don't get paid. It never has been found faulty. These investment executives steered these companies in"drerd". That was the invisible hand which steeled from the savings of naive investors who believed in the free market, chas v'sholem not socialism but a truly free ganeivishe market.
23
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:36 PM Anonymous Says:
Why do the rich deserve their money more than me? I'm entitled to enjoy life also. Obama is forcing them to do Tzedaka!
24
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:27 PM Shm Says:
Now I understand. Bloomberg is about o get taxed, that's why he is hiring our taxes.
25
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:27 PM Its gonna be a very bumpy ride! Says:
“ its sounds like he's taking nekoma of the slavery from 200 years ago! ”
Niba v'lo yoda ma niba.
You could be correct. He did mention something about that at one point early in his campaign. He also mentioned that when he was on the radio in his early years. That would be one of the interviews that the left considered "hate" as in they hated when the right spoke about his social agenda.
26
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:24 PM Simple Economics Says:
“ Stop getting so excited. The rich will still have a lower tax rate than they did under that red commie RONALD REAGAN. And I don't think they were suffering too much back then. So please stop being so dramatic. ”
Alas your facts are skewed just like most left leaning people.
President Reagan lowered the tax bracket to about 28%. Since then its gone up to about 36%. When President Bush's tax cuts to expire at the end of 2010, the rates unless changed again will jump up to 39%.
27
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:15 PM nitpickin Says:
“ I see nothing wrong with taxing the rich. They have more than enough to live on comfortably, whereas many of us don't. ”
not true-soon I will not be able to pay full tuition they way things are going.
28
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:13 PM nitpickin Says:
“ LET MR MAYOR MIKE FEEL SOME OF THE PAIN ”
too rich to feel any pain
29
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:45 PM Milhouse Says:
“ With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share. ”
Fair share? Why is it fair for them to pay more than you? If you pay 10% of $40,000, and someone else pays 40% of $400,000, how is that fair? Does he get 40 times as much as you do from the government? So why should he pay 40 times as much as you do?
The "rich" pay almost all the taxes as it is. The top 10% pays something like 70% of the tax, and the top 5% pays something like 90%. How is that fair?
Here's a radical proposal: people who pay no tax shouldn't be allowed to vote, and people who pay a lot of taxes should get extra votes. It's their money, why should other people get to decide how to spend it?
30
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:19 PM anonymous Says:
“ Niba v'lo yoda ma niba.
You could be correct. He did mention something about that at one point early in his campaign. He also mentioned that when he was on the radio in his early years. That would be one of the interviews that the left considered "hate" as in they hated when the right spoke about his social agenda.
”
Maybe you knackers should take a trip to Baltimore and check with members of Ahavas Yisroel Fund who deliver food packages and with 7 mile market and ask them how many families are unable to buy food. You would not talk all that malarkey.
31
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:11 PM anonymous Says:
“ Fair share? Why is it fair for them to pay more than you? If you pay 10% of $40,000, and someone else pays 40% of $400,000, how is that fair? Does he get 40 times as much as you do from the government? So why should he pay 40 times as much as you do?
The "rich" pay almost all the taxes as it is. The top 10% pays something like 70% of the tax, and the top 5% pays something like 90%. How is that fair?
Here's a radical proposal: people who pay no tax shouldn't be allowed to vote, and people who pay a lot of taxes should get extra votes. It's their money, why should other people get to decide how to spend it? ”
Even Warren Buffet not as rich as you believes the Bush tax cuts were not fair.
Maybe you should go to accounting 1 and learn more about income tax rates. How about making a chasene between 50,000 and $ 100,000 and then sit in Kollel and receive welfare under section 8, WIC and all the other goodies, that is yosher
32
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Sounds like Eisov. Why don't you just become an armed robber yourself, or a burglar? Break into rich people's homes because they have more than enough? You think because someone else has more than you, it's OK to steal it? It's HIS MONEY, NOT YOURS. It doesn't matter how much he has and how little you have, you have no right to take even a penny away from him. You want tzedokah? Ask him nicely. And hiring a "government" to take it from him doesn't make it any better, just as hiring a hit man doesn't make murder any better. ”
What an am ha'aretz. If you learn even a little halacha you would know that community leaders are allowed to levy taxes on members of the community to support communal services, and that rich and poor can, in many cases, be made to pay differing amounts. Yidden no linger have kehilos that can do this, but there's is nothing at all wrong from a yiddish point of view, from a government doing the same.
33
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:57 PM Milhouse Says:
“ With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share. ”
#11 wrote: "but they are getting rich off of those of us who are poor."
Ot do ligt der hunt bagrobn. You think that they're getting rich off you, that all they have they took away from you. That was the complaint of the sons of Lovon. They said "me'asher le'ovinu oso es kol hakovod hazeh", and Rashi stops at "oso" and comments "osaf".
When a person makes money, he really MAKES it. He creates value where there wasn't any before. When he takes something that was worth $10 and makes it worth $15, that's value that didn't exist before. Nobody had it. The total value of all the things in the world was so much, and now it's $5 more. And that $5 rightfully belongs to him.
That's what happened with Yaakov and Lovon. Lovon was not very rich before Yaakov came, and everything that Yaakov accumulated over his six years of working for pay was because of his work and Hashem's brocho; if not for Yaakov, all that wealth wouldn't have been Lovon's, it just wouldn't have existed. All those sheep and goats on which Yaakov's fortune was built wouldn't have been born in the first place without his work and Hashem's help. That's why the Torah tells the truth, that "oso", he made the money.
But the bnei Lovon looked at it like highway robbers, who don't understand that wealth is created. They think there's only so much wealth in the world, and the only way to get more for oneself is to take it from someone else. They think "making" money is a metaphor, that "oso" really means "osaf", he didn't make it, it was lying there and he merely gathered it up. And if that's all he did, then why should it be his and not theirs? If he hadn't been there, surely they could have gathered it just as easily. So they resented him, and plotted to take it all away from him.
It looks like the bnei Lovon have just elected themselves a leader, a Resh Lokish before he did tshuvo, and now they can't wait to "gather" all the money that other people created. And it looks like some of those Bnei Lovon are among unzere as well; they think they weren't at Har Sinai when Hashem said "lo signov". They were probably busy looting the tents.
34
Nov 09, 2008 at 04:56 PM tax payer Says:
Yes the rich are they who gave all the big miney for the obama campighin so the next time he will run for relection they will not support
35
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:23 PM business-man Says:
the reason why the government giving entitlements (section 8, food stamps, medicaid, end of year bonuses called tax refunds, free eduscation, etc.) doesn't really work is because:
1) if you have a million people who are eligible now you then create 5 or 10 million who act poor on the books just collect.
2) you get people who won't want to work as they get what they need anyway. not everybody is ambious.
3) you get the ones who must not work, as their pay would be less than all the benifits or at least not significantly more to go to work.
4) cost of goods will go up to cover the extra taxes businesses and owners pay. so the binifits get wiped out. look what happened with section 8 apts. since everybody can afford more because uncle sam pays, the lowest rent for any apt is higher. so who benifits in the end? if food will go up, how did we help by giving a cuopon?
5) nobody overseas will buy our expensive products or even here in the u.s. just because we pay more taxes. so, we'll bring in more from china who give no beniifits. if they tax that just to make it even, what will the poor be able to buy even with benifits?
bottom line is that capitalism works, as long as the government watches there shouldn't be a monopoly. taxing and sharing will turn us into cuba.
36
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:22 PM anonymous Says:
“
The country is finished. There is no longer a reason to increase productivity or to continue being novel if it means that you will keep less of your hard earned money. Between this idea and the civil defense force when can we anticipate the KGB to open its doors here? Thank you to all those that elected this beheima. ”
You don't know what Marxism is . The tax cuts enacted by Bush increased the disparity by salaried workers and "excecutives who buried the companies they managed. How about those off shore savings account in Luxemburg and and other island who evade the income tax.
37
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:40 PM AMG Says:
“ its sounds like he's taking nekoma of the slavery from 200 years ago! ”
his fore fathers were not slaves he is a good oportunist
38
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share. ”
You are an idiot.
This whole crises started 2 years ago when the Democrats (libs) took over both houses.
Just wait in 2 years the Republicians will take ontrol of the house cause these Libs know how to mess up big time and Obama will be a lame duck president.
39
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ LET MR MAYOR MIKE FEEL SOME OF THE PAIN ”
He won't feel it cause he paid his share of taxes already. As of now he is making a $1 a year.
40
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:11 PM JOJO Says:
You are a bunch of jellues idiots. You all think the rich just became rich overnight from doing nothing? No they all worked hard to become rich and they deserve it. If you all would try and work as hard as these rich people you would also be as rich as them. They don't deserve the death penalty because they are rich. They worked hard now let them have it.
41
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share. ”
Get your facts straight with Bushes tax cuts every one that paid taxes got a check in the mail (those that paid) & it did take us out of a near recession in 2001 if you remember but if you are welfare programs you did not get a check since you did not pay tax. Its a tax break not a welfare check
42
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share. ”
So this is what it has come to: Bar Stool EconomicsSuppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go some
43
Nov 09, 2008 at 05:53 PM Peter the Pauper Says:
Bloomie just stole $400.00 (my RE tax rebate) from me.I'm not rich.
44
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:13 PM Anonymous Says:
Do all of you complaining want him to tax only the poor? I don't see that producing a lot of revenue.
45
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:12 PM Milhouse Says:
“ What an am ha'aretz. If you learn even a little halacha you would know that community leaders are allowed to levy taxes on members of the community to support communal services, and that rich and poor can, in many cases, be made to pay differing amounts. Yidden no linger have kehilos that can do this, but there's is nothing at all wrong from a yiddish point of view, from a government doing the same. ”
Show me. The gemara says that when a town builds a wall to protect people's lives, the people who live closer to the wall, and are therefore in greater danger, have to pay more, because they benefit more. Now who lives up against the edge of a town? The poor, that's who. And they have to pay more because they get the greatest benefit. If everyone's benefit is the same, then they have to pay the same -- not the same RATE but the same AMOUNT. If the wall is to protect from robbers, then people pay in proportion to how much they have to steal -- IN PROPORTION, not out of proportion. If I have 10 times as much as you do, then I have to pay 10 times as much to protect it, not 40 or 50 times as much. And if I don't benefit from a program the community has no right to tax me for it at all.
46
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Show me. The gemara says that when a town builds a wall to protect people's lives, the people who live closer to the wall, and are therefore in greater danger, have to pay more, because they benefit more. Now who lives up against the edge of a town? The poor, that's who. And they have to pay more because they get the greatest benefit. If everyone's benefit is the same, then they have to pay the same -- not the same RATE but the same AMOUNT. If the wall is to protect from robbers, then people pay in proportion to how much they have to steal -- IN PROPORTION, not out of proportion. If I have 10 times as much as you do, then I have to pay 10 times as much to protect it, not 40 or 50 times as much. And if I don't benefit from a program the community has no right to tax me for it at all.
”
Like I said..an am ha'aretz:
Look up Shulchan Aruch Orech Chaim Siman Nun Gimel, Se'if Chof Gimmel:
A Shaliach Tzibbur is to be paid from the "Kupas Ha'ir" (which, according to the Mishnah Berurah there, is collected by income - more from the rich). The Mechaber comments that even though both rich and poor benefit equally from the Shaliach Tzibbur, the rich can afford more.
47
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:45 PM There Goes Our Taxes (42K is rich according to Obama) Says:
“ Even Warren Buffet not as rich as you believes the Bush tax cuts were not fair.
Maybe you should go to accounting 1 and learn more about income tax rates. How about making a chasene between 50,000 and $ 100,000 and then sit in Kollel and receive welfare under section 8, WIC and all the other goodies, that is yosher ”
Buffet is a 'Das Yochid' but if he wants to "spread his wealth," I'll be more than happy to give him my address b/c as it goes now, it doesnt look good at all.
Never raise taxes during slow times!
48
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:41 PM Its gonna be a very bumpy ride! Says:
“ Maybe you knackers should take a trip to Baltimore and check with members of Ahavas Yisroel Fund who deliver food packages and with 7 mile market and ask them how many families are unable to buy food. You would not talk all that malarkey. ”
Who needs B'morons to show us things? What about Tomche Shabbos of BP, of Flabush, of Willy, or of any other area?
49
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:40 PM There Goes Our Taxes (42K is rich according to Obama) Says:
“ Fair share? Why is it fair for them to pay more than you? If you pay 10% of $40,000, and someone else pays 40% of $400,000, how is that fair? Does he get 40 times as much as you do from the government? So why should he pay 40 times as much as you do?
The "rich" pay almost all the taxes as it is. The top 10% pays something like 70% of the tax, and the top 5% pays something like 90%. How is that fair?
Here's a radical proposal: people who pay no tax shouldn't be allowed to vote, and people who pay a lot of taxes should get extra votes. It's their money, why should other people get to decide how to spend it? ”
Millhouse,
What do you think of the "flat tax?" I could see either side of it. I was wondering what you thought of it.
TGOT
50
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:56 PM Anonymous Says:
I can't wait for obama to share his wealth
51
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:53 PM They Got What They Asked For Says:
“ Get your facts straight with Bushes tax cuts every one that paid taxes got a check in the mail (those that paid) & it did take us out of a near recession in 2001 if you remember but if you are welfare programs you did not get a check since you did not pay tax. Its a tax break not a welfare check ”
President George W. Bush has been in office for over 7 1/2 years. During the first six, the economy was fine.
A little over two years ago:
1. Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high.
2. Regular gasoline sold for about $2.19 a gallon in the most expensive areas.
3. The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4. The Dow Jones hit a record high: 14,000+.
5. Americans were buying new cars, taking cruises, going on vacations overseas – in general, living large!
But Americans wanted ‘change.’ So, in 2006, they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes, we got ‘change’ all right.
In the past year:
1. Consumer confidence has plummeted.
2. Gasoline hit over $4-a-gallon, though it has fallen somewhat since. Of course Congress refuses to pass any laws that allow for domestic drilling or even for new refineries so gas could shoot up again when the oil market goes up.
3. Unemployment is up to 6.5% (a 20% increase).
4. Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 trillion, and prices are still dropping.
5. By mid Sept 2008 almost 2.5% of homes in this country were either in foreclosure, in the process, or done.
6. $2.5 trillion have evaporated from stocks, bonds and mutual funds investment portfolios.
Yes, in 2006, America voted for change...and we sure got it!
In 2008, America voted for more change, but this time it was "change they could believe in" (the first 2 years weren't enough?) so they elected 2 of the most left leaning people we ever had in the Senate as the next President and VP.
Clearly this is Yad HaShem for us to do Tshuva for Moshiach Ben Dovid's arrival.
52
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:51 PM Simple Economics Says:
“ You don't know what Marxism is . The tax cuts enacted by Bush increased the disparity by salaried workers and "excecutives who buried the companies they managed. How about those off shore savings account in Luxemburg and and other island who evade the income tax. ”
You also sound farbittirt about not getting that raise! What about if CHV the boss wont be able to pay you anymore?
53
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You are a bunch of jellues idiots. You all think the rich just became rich overnight from doing nothing? No they all worked hard to become rich and they deserve it. If you all would try and work as hard as these rich people you would also be as rich as them. They don't deserve the death penalty because they are rich. They worked hard now let them have it.
”
No, we are not "jellues idiots", whatever that means. The present President Bush didn't get rich through his hard work, but through his daddy.
54
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:49 PM Moshiach HAS To Be On The Way! Says:
“ Yes the rich are they who gave all the big miney for the obama campighin so the next time he will run for relection they will not support ”
Thats EXACTLY one of the reasons you see Yad HaSh-m in this race. It made NO SENSE WHATSOEVER that Obama should have so many rich people voting for him. It made no sense that he had so many people in the country falling in line with him hook line & sinker. It seemed no matter what evidence of his extreme socialist views or the views of all his friends, the people of the USA had their heads extremely far up a VERY dark place.
55
Nov 09, 2008 at 06:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Fair share? Why is it fair for them to pay more than you? If you pay 10% of $40,000, and someone else pays 40% of $400,000, how is that fair? Does he get 40 times as much as you do from the government? So why should he pay 40 times as much as you do?
The "rich" pay almost all the taxes as it is. The top 10% pays something like 70% of the tax, and the top 5% pays something like 90%. How is that fair?
Here's a radical proposal: people who pay no tax shouldn't be allowed to vote, and people who pay a lot of taxes should get extra votes. It's their money, why should other people get to decide how to spend it? ”
I agree with you 100%. And also all these entitlements destroyed america. If you need money get off your behind & get a job. I have 5 kids & both me & my husband work full time & we just get by. Who says the government should support you.
56
Nov 09, 2008 at 07:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ President George W. Bush has been in office for over 7 1/2 years. During the first six, the economy was fine.
A little over two years ago:
1. Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high.
2. Regular gasoline sold for about $2.19 a gallon in the most expensive areas.
3. The unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4. The Dow Jones hit a record high: 14,000+.
5. Americans were buying new cars, taking cruises, going on vacations overseas – in general, living large!
But Americans wanted ‘change.’ So, in 2006, they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes, we got ‘change’ all right.
In the past year:
1. Consumer confidence has plummeted.
2. Gasoline hit over $4-a-gallon, though it has fallen somewhat since. Of course Congress refuses to pass any laws that allow for domestic drilling or even for new refineries so gas could shoot up again when the oil market goes up.
3. Unemployment is up to 6.5% (a 20% increase).
4. Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 trillion, and prices are still dropping.
5. By mid Sept 2008 almost 2.5% of homes in this country were either in foreclosure, in the process, or done.
6. $2.5 trillion have evaporated from stocks, bonds and mutual funds investment portfolios.
Yes, in 2006, America voted for change...and we sure got it!
In 2008, America voted for more change, but this time it was "change they could believe in" (the first 2 years weren't enough?) so they elected 2 of the most left leaning people we ever had in the Senate as the next President and VP.
Clearly this is Yad HaShem for us to do Tshuva for Moshiach Ben Dovid's arrival. ”
The global economy does not radically change direction "on a dime" as you allege happened because of a few extra Dems in congress.
The seeds of this have been sown for a long time, under the Republican and and Democratic administrations, and clearly has much more to do with deregulation in the banking industry, the pressure to loan to inner-city dwellers, and much more.
Don't get sucked into the dummed-down Rep vs Dem talking points.
57
Nov 09, 2008 at 07:17 PM anonymous Says:
“ You also sound farbittirt about not getting that raise! What about if CHV the boss wont be able to pay you anymore? ”
No I am retired and doing fairly well , yes I am farbittert when I see the parasitic existence of our ben torah living on socialistic section , WIC and federal had me outs and the unfortunate families who need gmilas chesed to feed their families
58
Nov 09, 2008 at 07:18 PM anonymous Says:
“ I'm surprised no one pointed out that another way to increase jobs is by cutting taxes for the middle class. You cut taxes for the middle class, which in turn spend more money on the most basic items, which then in turn generates more demand and thus more jobs. I'm not saying that should be the only way to generate jobs, but there's always two sides to every story. The experts on the dem sides are probably well aware of all the arguments. ”
right you are they spent the money in the good old USA
60
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:00 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Fair share? Why is it fair for them to pay more than you? If you pay 10% of $40,000, and someone else pays 40% of $400,000, how is that fair? Does he get 40 times as much as you do from the government? So why should he pay 40 times as much as you do?
The "rich" pay almost all the taxes as it is. The top 10% pays something like 70% of the tax, and the top 5% pays something like 90%. How is that fair?
Here's a radical proposal: people who pay no tax shouldn't be allowed to vote, and people who pay a lot of taxes should get extra votes. It's their money, why should other people get to decide how to spend it? ”
If 10% of the taxpayers pay 70% of the taxes then how can 5% pay 90%?
61
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Yankel-
You are a moron. when the rich get taxed they do two things: 1. pass on the effect in what thet produce sell etc. 2. cut their own workforce making the remainder work longer and harder (without a pay differential).
Trust me I know first hand.
Taxing the rich disproportionately stfles the economy. ”
Yankel - You are far from out of your mind. 20% of the money 'earned' in this country is paid to less than 1% of the population. CEOs of failing public corporations (public - as in that is where MY 401K and IRA losses have gone) are regularly paid a tens and hundreds of millions of dollars to get the heck out before they crash what is left of their companies.
Too bad many frum yiddin seem to have bought into the idea that being frum and voting republican and believing all the nonsense they hear on 770 a.m. all goes hand-in-hand-in-hand.
Greed has brought us to the situation we now find ourselves. Let those who gained the most by their greed pay the most toget us out of this mess they created.
62
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:11 PM business-man Says:
what is this craziness that corporations and owners make their money off their workers back?
In America everybody is a businessman including the worker.
when a businessman tries to sell his products to a buyer and finds the market competitive, does he scream the buyer got the goods off his back?
The same is with a worker. A worker offers his services for a given rate and the businessman buys it. The worker can go anywhere to find a better rate for his services, but if he can't, that's all he's worth, just like the businessman can charge higher than the market will bear for his products.
This that the businessman sometimes makes huge profits, is because he deserves it. He didn't win the lottery. He invested his time and money in a business or products or development of better products and took huge risks on his money. Nobody complains that he might have gone for years without a salary, or maybe started a few other businesses that failed.
Now the worker, who gets paid his agreed rate, want a share in businessman's business. What right does he have?
63
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Fair share? Why is it fair for them to pay more than you? If you pay 10% of $40,000, and someone else pays 40% of $400,000, how is that fair? Does he get 40 times as much as you do from the government? So why should he pay 40 times as much as you do?
The "rich" pay almost all the taxes as it is. The top 10% pays something like 70% of the tax, and the top 5% pays something like 90%. How is that fair?
Here's a radical proposal: people who pay no tax shouldn't be allowed to vote, and people who pay a lot of taxes should get extra votes. It's their money, why should other people get to decide how to spend it? ”
Of coourse someone worth ten times as much as me is getting ten times as much in return from the government.
The fire department is there to save his house which is worth ten times as much, the armed forces that protect this country are protecting ten times as much property for him...........
64
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:16 PM Anonymous Says:
to #61.
Greed & corruption is another issue and that belongs to the SEC to control investors money. But what does that have to with TAXING the rich and corporations, so that the same investors you're taqlking about (401k, etc.) get bilked, so that the HAVE NOTs should have it FAIR! ABSURD!
65
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:20 PM Yehuda Says:
“ I guess the "poor" and middle class wont be taxed but it will be harder for them to find or maintain jobs because the people with the money (read: THEIR BOSS!) is going to have their taxes raised. This means instead of paying the workers or even being able to hire more workers, they will be supporting King Obama.
President JFK, a Democrat, was the one to realize that the country does much better by cutting taxes from the people with money than raising them. He was the one to drop the tax rate on the "rich." That seemed to have been lost on the tax loving Liberals because the next major tax rate decrease for the rich was when President Reagan was in office. It was because of those tax breaks to the rich that stimulated the US economy in those times. Raising taxes DOES NOT stimulate economic growth. ”
When President Kennedy proposed a cut in the top income tax bracket, the top effective tax rate was 87%. (It was dropped in 1964 to 77% (source: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf)
The current top rate is 35%. Between 1993 and 2000, during a sustained period of economic expansion, the top rate was 39.6%. A return to a top tax rate of 35% is not socialism, nor is it likely to remove incentives to invest and create jobs.
of the 19
66
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:31 PM Anonymous Says:
Once you believe that it's OK forbthe government to take from A and give it to B just to make it fair, what is the definiition of fair?
Tax the rich 50%, 75%, 95%, Hw much? Whatever guys like Obama, Pilosi, Reid, Frank & Schumer decide?
I think there's a better way. Let the poor sell their voting rights on eBay, but the politicians must pay with their own money, not future taxpayers money!
67
Nov 09, 2008 at 08:44 PM um no Says:
“ the difference is the rich work double or triple as hard then the so called poor (if they are working) ”
thats the stupidest thing in the world. Bush CUT TAXES only for the RICHEST people - and nnow look at what has happened to the nation's economy. makes you wonder, doesnt it?
68
Nov 09, 2008 at 09:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ to #61.
Greed & corruption is another issue and that belongs to the SEC to control investors money. But what does that have to with TAXING the rich and corporations, so that the same investors you're taqlking about (401k, etc.) get bilked, so that the HAVE NOTs should have it FAIR! ABSURD! ”
You guys still don't get it. The tax laws as well as the SEC laws have been re-wired in the last eight years to make it easier for the top 1% of the population to suck out every penny they can with total disregard for the common good.
Amazing how many of you have bought into the talk radio fantasy of who the tax cuts have helped.
Even funnier is how many t=of you fell for the threat that if the rich have to pay taxes they will stop investing in new companies to make more money.
69
Nov 09, 2008 at 09:29 PM They Got What They Asked For Says:
“ thats the stupidest thing in the world. Bush CUT TAXES only for the RICHEST people - and nnow look at what has happened to the nation's economy. makes you wonder, doesnt it? ”
It makes me wonder what was so bad about the first 6 years of the economy under Bush that so many people felt the need for "change" so they gave Congress to the Democrats. What happened afterwards is the economy tanked. Not a coincidence!
70
Nov 09, 2008 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:
Do all of you who claim President Bush "cut taxes for the rich" not realize that Mr. Bush actually cut taxes for the "poor" as well?
The lowest tax bracket was at 15%, and Mr. Bush lowered it to 10%; this is fact.
Is President-elect Obama now planning to let that provision expire, too?
71
Nov 09, 2008 at 09:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ what is this craziness that corporations and owners make their money off their workers back?
In America everybody is a businessman including the worker.
when a businessman tries to sell his products to a buyer and finds the market competitive, does he scream the buyer got the goods off his back?
The same is with a worker. A worker offers his services for a given rate and the businessman buys it. The worker can go anywhere to find a better rate for his services, but if he can't, that's all he's worth, just like the businessman can charge higher than the market will bear for his products.
This that the businessman sometimes makes huge profits, is because he deserves it. He didn't win the lottery. He invested his time and money in a business or products or development of better products and took huge risks on his money. Nobody complains that he might have gone for years without a salary, or maybe started a few other businesses that failed.
Now the worker, who gets paid his agreed rate, want a share in businessman's business. What right does he have? ”
Sounds like yall wanna be like they are in Russia.
Everyone is an Engineer. A trash engineer. A newspaper delivery engineer. A plumbing engineer.
(nothing against plumbers)
72
Nov 09, 2008 at 09:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It makes me wonder what was so bad about the first 6 years of the economy under Bush that so many people felt the need for "change" so they gave Congress to the Democrats. What happened afterwards is the economy tanked. Not a coincidence! ”
The economy grew for six years and then popped because it was an unsustainable bubble, a total fantasy. banks kept lending because they were unregulated, people borrowed because there was no other way to pay for the expenses of living in the bubble and no one was held accountable.
So far, only John McCain has paid heavily for the Bush tax cuts.
73
Nov 09, 2008 at 11:03 PM They Got What They Asked For Says:
“ The economy grew for six years and then popped because it was an unsustainable bubble, a total fantasy. banks kept lending because they were unregulated, people borrowed because there was no other way to pay for the expenses of living in the bubble and no one was held accountable.
So far, only John McCain has paid heavily for the Bush tax cuts. ”
Banks kept lending because of mostly people like Barney Faigy Frank and Osama Obama, both of whom were paid off nicely by Fanny & Freddie.
74
Nov 09, 2008 at 11:00 PM Simple Economics Says:
“ When President Kennedy proposed a cut in the top income tax bracket, the top effective tax rate was 87%. (It was dropped in 1964 to 77% (source: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf)
The current top rate is 35%. Between 1993 and 2000, during a sustained period of economic expansion, the top rate was 39.6%. A return to a top tax rate of 35% is not socialism, nor is it likely to remove incentives to invest and create jobs.
of the 19 ”
First I was going to thank you for illustrating my point but then you got lost.
You have the basic numbers about the JFK tax cut however the rate went up to 39% before President Bush'stax credit. That dropped the high rate to about 36% and that is what is going to expire in 2010. Along with that cut were other cuts which seem like they will also go by the wayside.
A simple "return" as you call it to the higher tax rate may not be called Socialism HOWEVER when your candidate says, "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody," it then gets called SOCIALISM, plain and simple.
75
Nov 09, 2008 at 11:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ First I was going to thank you for illustrating my point but then you got lost.
You have the basic numbers about the JFK tax cut however the rate went up to 39% before President Bush'stax credit. That dropped the high rate to about 36% and that is what is going to expire in 2010. Along with that cut were other cuts which seem like they will also go by the wayside.
A simple "return" as you call it to the higher tax rate may not be called Socialism HOWEVER when your candidate says, "I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody," it then gets called SOCIALISM, plain and simple.
”
You spend too much time listening to too much talk radio. Better you should get torah tapes and CDs so less of your life would be concentrated on money and taxes.
76
Nov 10, 2008 at 01:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Fair share? Why is it fair for them to pay more than you? If you pay 10% of $40,000, and someone else pays 40% of $400,000, how is that fair? Does he get 40 times as much as you do from the government? So why should he pay 40 times as much as you do?
The "rich" pay almost all the taxes as it is. The top 10% pays something like 70% of the tax, and the top 5% pays something like 90%. How is that fair?
Here's a radical proposal: people who pay no tax shouldn't be allowed to vote, and people who pay a lot of taxes should get extra votes. It's their money, why should other people get to decide how to spend it? ”
Well said Millhouse! First truly sensible comment on this site--and I am not rich.
77
Nov 10, 2008 at 01:29 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You spend too much time listening to too much talk radio. Better you should get torah tapes and CDs so less of your life would be concentrated on money and taxes. ”
What are you, some kind of a one-show-horse? You have anything else to say other than "you listen to too much talk radio"? Before you lecture people on torah tapes, seems to me you spend too much time on the internet.
78
Nov 10, 2008 at 08:30 AM anonymous Says:
“ Well said Millhouse! First truly sensible comment on this site--and I am not rich. ”
The tax rate you are listing are your own immagination and your fiction. Maybe you should read fundamentals on accounting. Maybe the rate includes what you are son-in-law is getting under section 8 welfare.
79
Nov 10, 2008 at 08:30 AM anonymous Says:
“ Well said Millhouse! First truly sensible comment on this site--and I am not rich. ”
The tax rate you are listing are your own immagination and your fiction. Maybe you should read fundamentals on accounting. Maybe the rate includes what you are son-in-law is getting under section 8 welfare.
80
Nov 10, 2008 at 09:29 AM Anon Says:
“ Way to go Barack!!! I am so excited. Finally my day has arrived. After all these years of being jealous of the rich I finally will have the freedom and money that will be provided for me from the rich. They have had their day and its over for all those punks. Barack will be offering me plenty of food stamps, he will pay my rent and health care for my entire family. God bless America and God bless barack Obama ”
Yep, way to go. Let the filthy rich pay for your food, rent, health insurance and I forgot they will also pay your tuition and possibly a vacation or two a year. And why shouldnt the filthy rich pay for a few more weeks vacation, and also for a raise ..... thats the mindset in the gutters!!
And I forgot, 40% of the country never pay taxes, so what the heck, the top 5% should pay all the taxes. This is fair way to go (Hey, they did it to your ancestors in Russia).
81
Nov 10, 2008 at 09:25 AM Anom Says:
“ With Bush's tax breaks for the rich, the rich got richer, and the disparity between rich and poor grew. They did NOT pass the money along to their employees. They get rich by paying low wages and charging high prices. Profit margins have grown increasingly large. Go Obama, let the rich pay their fair share. ”
Wrong - the country did much better in the circumstances with the Bush tax cuts than without. If Bush had not cut the taxe, the rich that control the purse-strings of the economy would not invest, spend and creat jobs, its such a simple thing.
If taxes go up, the rich will just put their money in treasuries and gov bonds and sit back and not work, unless they have a reason to invest and that because they can profit and not give Uncle Sam all their money.
And, I am a regular working person, not a rich guy, but I fagein a guy to make a living, give salaries to employees, give tzedaka, and not have his money going to government wealth redistribution.
If you go to the grocery store, no-one asks if you are rich one price and ppor a different price. Same for gov services.
This was the reason America was differenrt from Europe, for 100 years, that America let upu make a buck.
And thats why people from other counties send their money to the US, because its a free country.
82
Nov 10, 2008 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What are you, some kind of a one-show-horse? You have anything else to say other than "you listen to too much talk radio"? Before you lecture people on torah tapes, seems to me you spend too much time on the internet. ”
Downloading shiurim to listen to instead of that stupidity too many frum people listen to and repeat like a bunch of parrots.
83
Nov 10, 2008 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Wrong - the country did much better in the circumstances with the Bush tax cuts than without. If Bush had not cut the taxe, the rich that control the purse-strings of the economy would not invest, spend and creat jobs, its such a simple thing.
If taxes go up, the rich will just put their money in treasuries and gov bonds and sit back and not work, unless they have a reason to invest and that because they can profit and not give Uncle Sam all their money.
And, I am a regular working person, not a rich guy, but I fagein a guy to make a living, give salaries to employees, give tzedaka, and not have his money going to government wealth redistribution.
If you go to the grocery store, no-one asks if you are rich one price and ppor a different price. Same for gov services.
This was the reason America was differenrt from Europe, for 100 years, that America let upu make a buck.
And thats why people from other counties send their money to the US, because its a free country. ”
By your theory all countries that tax income at a higher rate than we do (a.k.a. most of the industrial world) should have ground to a halt many years ago.
Such foolishness. You are claiming that business people actually say to themselves "I was going to invest when I was going to keep 85% of my money but now that I'll only make 80% on my investment I will keep it in CDs and earn 5%."
84
Nov 10, 2008 at 02:03 PM Sad to see greed Says:
So sad to see such greed ... one post one financial balance in the world and ppl here jump ... surprised to see not that many ppl jump for justice and change here, which is what we truly need. Poverty is the number one cause of crime, financial balance and opportunity for EVERY HUMAN being to feed their family and live a healthy life is wonderful! How can we be sooo greedy? what ? do you need another MERCEDEZ? another gold heavy necklace for the bride? who invented these 100K weddings anyways while children in the world are staaaaarving ?? I have soo much to say because i lived it , but who cares about the ppl that live a life full of struggle, who cares about the ppl that fight everyday to do better but don’t get a chance because of cruelty, racism and greed of the others ???? And we call ourselves human , ad righteous chosen ppl of the world ???
85
Nov 10, 2008 at 04:14 PM Aryl Alkene Says:
When the rich are taxed an extra 3-5%, it doesn't have any effect on how much they will pay for their labor or how much they will charge for the goods they sell. Rather, they will charge as much as they can while staying competitive, and they will pay their workers as little as possible as long they keep churning out product. Especially so in the case of frum employers, who are the worst imaginable employers bar none.
86
Nov 10, 2008 at 07:08 PM Even Money Says:
Every one should earn the same amount of basic salary and put it in a public fund. Then each person will get from the government the same amount of food coupons,clothing allowances,etc,Then it will be fair,No,it does not work like that.Each person makes what he can and spends what he has.Do not spend more than what you can earn.If you have more than what you need,put some aside for those who do not have enough.That is the way taxes and insurance work. I may pay for services I do not personally benefit from,but others do.Other people pay taxes and insurance for items I get that they don't.As one big group,we must work together to help each other out. Life is not fair,
87
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:35 AM Milhouse Says:
“ When the rich are taxed an extra 3-5%, it doesn't have any effect on how much they will pay for their labor or how much they will charge for the goods they sell. Rather, they will charge as much as they can while staying competitive, and they will pay their workers as little as possible as long they keep churning out product. Especially so in the case of frum employers, who are the worst imaginable employers bar none. ”
And how else should it be? Don't you charge as much as you can for your labour, while staying competitive, and don't you pay as little as you can get away with for your purchases? Do you ever think you should cut your boss a break and not ask for a raise when you can, or even offer to take a pay cut out of rachmonis for him? Do you ever offer to pay more at the supermarket, so they should have a parnossah too? Of course not. Why should the rich be any different?
88
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:32 AM I Can't Afford Obama's Tax Increase On My 42K Salary!! Says:
“ Every one should earn the same amount of basic salary and put it in a public fund. Then each person will get from the government the same amount of food coupons,clothing allowances,etc,Then it will be fair,No,it does not work like that.Each person makes what he can and spends what he has.Do not spend more than what you can earn.If you have more than what you need,put some aside for those who do not have enough.That is the way taxes and insurance work. I may pay for services I do not personally benefit from,but others do.Other people pay taxes and insurance for items I get that they don't.As one big group,we must work together to help each other out. Life is not fair, ”
you are a communist!!
go to cuba PLEASE!
89
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:26 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Of coourse someone worth ten times as much as me is getting ten times as much in return from the government.
The fire department is there to save his house which is worth ten times as much, the armed forces that protect this country are protecting ten times as much property for him........... ”
So let him pay 10 times as much as you, not 20 or 40 or 60 times as much.
90
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:24 AM Milhouse Says:
“ If 10% of the taxpayers pay 70% of the taxes then how can 5% pay 90%?
”
Yeah, I got that backwards. I didn't look up the exact numbers, that was just an example. The actual numbers are more like this: The top 1% pay a third of federal income taxes; the top 5% pay over half, and the top 10% pay two thirds. The top half of the population pays 97% of the income tax! Is that right?
91
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:18 AM Milhouse Says:
“ No, we are not "jellues idiots", whatever that means. The present President Bush didn't get rich through his hard work, but through his daddy. ”
First of all, 98% of American millionaires are self-made. Only 2% inherited their wealth. But even of those 2%, so what? If they didn't earn their money, their fathers or grandfathers did. You want to leave your money to your children, don't you? And if you give money to some guy to sit in kollel, you expect him to have that money, right? How would you react if someone stole the money you gave your children or your "yissochor", because they hadn't earned it themselves? You'd be outraged. You worked for that money, and you have the right to give it to whomever you like. Well, so did the fathers and grandfathers of that 2% of millionaires who inherited their wealth. It's not right to steal from them just because they're rich.
92
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:07 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Millhouse,
What do you think of the "flat tax?" I could see either side of it. I was wondering what you thought of it.
TGOT ”
What people call a "flat tax" is actually a *proportional* tax, what halacha calls "lefi momon". The halacha is that it should be used to pay for things that benefit people in proportion to their wealth. For instance, if the police were to protect us from burglars (ha!) that would help rich people more than poor ones. A poor person doesn't mind much if he's broken in to, because he has nothing to steal. The main fear he has of burglars is that they might hurt him; and that fear applies equally to everyone, so the halacha is that a component of the police expenses should be paid, not by a "flat" (i.e. proportional) wealth tax, but by a poll tax, in which everyone pays a flat *amount*. What proportion of the police budget should be paid by a flat wealth tax (lefi momon) and how much by a poll tax (lefi nefoshos) is a practical question that must be decided in each case separately.
BTW, using income as a proxy for wealth isn't perfect, but every bit of wealth was income once, and if it was taxed when it was earned it's not necessarily fair to tax it again.. And taxing wealth rather than income has the unfortunate effect of encouraging profligate spending and discouraging saving.
93
Nov 11, 2008 at 12:00 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Like I said..an am ha'aretz:
Look up Shulchan Aruch Orech Chaim Siman Nun Gimel, Se'if Chof Gimmel:
A Shaliach Tzibbur is to be paid from the "Kupas Ha'ir" (which, according to the Mishnah Berurah there, is collected by income - more from the rich). The Mechaber comments that even though both rich and poor benefit equally from the Shaliach Tzibbur, the rich can afford more. ”
Look in the Hagohos HaGRO, where he quotes the Maharil as giving a reason why at least a component should be paid according to wealth - without a chazan people will have to travel to another place to daven, and they will be in danger of robbers on the way, which affects people in proportion to how much money they carry on them. And the Taz says that since the poor can say they'd be satisfied with a cheaper chazan even if he can't sing so well, while the rich people usually want a better and therefore more expensive chazan, they should pay a greater portion of his salary.
However, all this is talking about a levy *in proportion* to wealth, not out of proportion. Even if a levy is completely "lefi momon", if I have 10 times what you do I pay 10 times as much as you, not 20 or 30 or 40 times And I'm paying for the benefit I get, not for someone else's benefit. There's no heter to take money away from one person just to give it to another. (And no, tzedaka is not applicable here; see the gemara in the first chapter of BB.)