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Washington - NY Times Slams GM, Ford CEOs As They Go Begging - in Private Jets |
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But we were struck — and not in a good way — by one detail of the car companies’ plea to Congress on Tuesday for a bailout.
The CEO’s of GM, Ford, and Chrysler, ABC news is reporting, flew to Washington in luxurious private jets. The jet GM CEO Rick Wagoner flew in on reportedly cost $36 million. (One of eight luxury jets, according to ABC, in financially strapped GM’s fleet.)
Times are tough right now not only for the big three auto makers, but for ordinary Americans across the country.
If the CEOs want hardworking taxpayers to bail them out, they should leave the gold-plated transportation at home and fly the way their would-be benefactors do (if they fly at all): on ordinary commercial flights.
Of course, they could also take a tip from Sarah Palin — who famously listed a state plane for sale on eBay — and sell the jets. They could then deduct what they make from the sales from the cost of the taxpayer-funded bailout they are seeking
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Read Comments (37) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 19, 2008 at 01:46 PM Anonymous Says:
its about time the Times gets somethig right
2
Nov 19, 2008 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:
WOW - from the grey leady - things they are a changing.
3
Nov 19, 2008 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:
do you think the fat cats at bear stearns fannie freddie aig merrill indy mac wamu wachovia etc. dont fly on private jets? can't understand why gm is being used as a scapegoat. they are all a bunch of bums who tanked the us economy
4
Nov 19, 2008 at 01:55 PM Anonymous Says:
FIRST TIME MAYBE THE LAST TIME AS WELL
5
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:14 PM Reminds Me of....... Says:
It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem.
6
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:20 PM Big Masmid Says:
I f they lower the car prices maybe more people will purchase their cars, if times are hard get them food section 8 after all we want CHANGE
7
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
you are unreal all you can do is bash someone you have no right. you have no idea how much they give to tzedaka. they have every right to live how they want who are you to judge how another person lives their life. mabey they do give a lot of tzedaka they dont have to give every penny that they earn away so if they want to drive their fancy car buy nice clothing lety them its their money they earned it let them spend it the wat they want to. all you are do is being jealous of what the other guy has. you dont live in his house dont judge!!!!!!!!
8
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:27 PM Allan Says:
These CEO's are a bunch of self serving pigs that as a condition of any possible bailout they need to go. When times were good for the industry they made lot's of money and also made terrible quality vehicles and were and still are arrogant. I've had GM and Ford vehicles over the last 40 years and most were nothing more than garbage painted to look nice, and when problems arose the companies were never helpful untill either I threatened the use of the Lemon Law or other legal options and even then they were defiant til the end.
9
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:46 PM murray Says:
“ do you think the fat cats at bear stearns fannie freddie aig merrill indy mac wamu wachovia etc. dont fly on private jets? can't understand why gm is being used as a scapegoat. they are all a bunch of bums who tanked the us economy ”
Why are you pandering to the General Motors? Do you like the car, or do you have stock in the company. Let them go down in the dust bin of history. Who is bailing out the regular normal people?
10
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:00 PM Anonymous Says:
#5 You know somethimes I question if the people writing here have any brains or just plain talk.
What are you mixing in gevirim? are the gevirim asking from the goverment a taxpayer bailout????? these executives are asking for a taxpayer bailout ! so what are you mixing in gevirim, they can do with their money what they want, of course they should give tzedakah, but PLEASE DONT MIX UP APPLES WITH ORANGES.
11
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:
True if they dont have money because they are greedy and dont know how to run a business, let them fold like other companies that cant operate and fold, asking for the goverment to BAIL THEM OUT is just getting sick to think about, let them go bankrupt like any other company and reorganize by rewriting contracts and not offering benefits and insurance for their employees who worked there for 10-15 years left by the age 45 and now just living off the company till they die which todays average life years are at 85-90 years, what were they thinking all these years? that it wont catch up with them? let them fold and learn the lesson, perhaps they should try to make better cars - then just flying around town with private luxury jets, no wonder they cant compete with the Japanese.
12
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
the problem is that they are asking for money from the bailout plan. this money is coming from the average american tapayer. if they can fly in 36 million dollar company jets, then they should sell those rather than taking hard earned tax dollars. by taking multi-million dollar salaries and then complain that they need govt. assistance is the problem.
13
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
No! The difference is, that here they want YOUR Money!
14
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:02 PM Anonymous Says:
Sorry but the Gemara says: If someone looses his fortune and he is used to ride in white horses the tzibir has to supply them with White Horses.....The same goes to those big CEO..???????
Oh boy i cant wait for all my replys on here....
15
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
I love how everyone counts the money of some balai Tzedukah. Just because in the past they were able to give, and say they cannot now, why do you have to look at what they do? Charity is just that Charity! Do you honestly think that these people wake up and say " I don't feel like giving tzedukah today"??
The concept of Tzedukah giving (or lack thereof) has nothing to do with CEOs begging for money from tax payers while not really making deep meaningful changes to thier respective companies first.
16
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
I know several gevirim and not one has anything resembling a lavish lifestyle. So Loshon Hara is exactly correct.
17
Nov 19, 2008 at 02:40 PM Anonymous Says:
why is this different than the american govrnment. does every political figure need the most updated car? does the new president need a brand new custom made car with all the bells and whistles?
18
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
What a stupid comparison
19
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:34 PM m Says:
They have these planes to allow for flying to far off places or places where there may not be efficient transportation or access to their factories or their suppliers factories. They also have the planes for their own safety because they make lots of enemies from ex-employees.
The Times shouldn't throw stones - I am sure they have a jet and they are loosing tons of money cause no one is reading their paper anymore.
20
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ True if they dont have money because they are greedy and dont know how to run a business, let them fold like other companies that cant operate and fold, asking for the goverment to BAIL THEM OUT is just getting sick to think about, let them go bankrupt like any other company and reorganize by rewriting contracts and not offering benefits and insurance for their employees who worked there for 10-15 years left by the age 45 and now just living off the company till they die which todays average life years are at 85-90 years, what were they thinking all these years? that it wont catch up with them? let them fold and learn the lesson, perhaps they should try to make better cars - then just flying around town with private luxury jets, no wonder they cant compete with the Japanese. ”
Whats unemployment going to cost America for 3 million workers that lose their jobs? A lot more than $25 billion.
Whats it going to cost America when 3 million people will be unisured and the government is going to pay for there hospital bills? A lot more than $25 billion.
How is going to effect the economy when 3 million people can no longer pay their morgages, credit card bills and spend money on consumer goods? A lot more than $25 billion.
If the car manufacters shut down how much tax is the government gonna lose? A lot more than $25 billion.
Every time someone will buy a car the money gets sent overseas.
21
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:44 PM He's Got A Point Says:
#5 is not all that off base...Of course, it's a lot different here where these CEO's are asking for a bailout, but still you won't ever see a gvir downgrading his lifestyle to support anything, it just doesn't happen. The tzedoka goes before anything of his will. No one will expect it.
The problem is not only loshon hora, but rabbonim of the dor won't speak up against lavish lifestyles since that would negatively affect their fundraising efforts (how can you speak against people you collect from???). They hold parlor meetings in these luxurious homes every month, for heaven's sake! (literally, I'm sorry to say) And why do you think the takonas they made about chasunas years back never took off? For the same reason-they can't enforce their own rules against their benefactors! It was doomed from the start, and everyone knew it would be the big joke it was.
True, there is a halocha about paying for a former gvir's crazy kovod when he loses his money (having slaves run before him, etc.). Although one cannont argue with Halocha, I personally would bypass that "golden" opportunity and give my money to other causes. Let others foot that bill, thank you very much.
22
Nov 19, 2008 at 03:56 PM Anonymous Says:
#20 and you really think that it will ONLY be 25 billion?, go back day dreaming, 25 billion is the START and what you know, whats with the other billions we dont know.
And so thats the reason we should keep putting in money in a company that will ANYWAYS go bankrupt down the line, look the best is they go bankrupt and they reorganize, they can start by NOT giving every employee a free car with $140 insurance per year every year, - are you aware of that perk? they can start by re negotiating their contracts and offer 401k pension styles, they can start by selling their jets, they can start by doing many things, trust me they will find out the hard way, and lastly dont worry about the goverment if they can find 700 billion for bailouts and they can find 25 billion for the car companies they will find money for their hospital bills, dont be so naieve.
23
Nov 19, 2008 at 04:29 PM Big Masmid Says:
“ Sorry but the Gemara says: If someone looses his fortune and he is used to ride in white horses the tzibir has to supply them with White Horses.....The same goes to those big CEO..???????
Oh boy i cant wait for all my replys on here.... ”
Not thew same thing, have you ever seen a white horse that costs $ 36 million Dollars? on the other hand you are right because the plain is white too. in the future post your name not anon.
24
Nov 19, 2008 at 05:04 PM Edsel Shmedsel Says:
Part of the reason the big 3 US car companies are suffering is
because of the outrageous wages and benefits that the unions
demand for their members. Another home-grown industry
destroyed at the bargainig table.
Why should taxpayers have to pay for the CEOs to beg for
OUR money in a private luxury jet.
I’m sure a Heimish car sevice from BP could have brought
them all to Washington for less than 36 million.
25
Nov 19, 2008 at 05:04 PM anonymous Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
Stop with the gevirim garbage. get off your ******* and get a job.
People like you who relied on gevirim insteas of g-d are finally realizing who is in charge. Pray to g-d not gevirim.
26
Nov 19, 2008 at 06:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ why is this different than the american govrnment. does every political figure need the most updated car? does the new president need a brand new custom made car with all the bells and whistles? ”
This has nothing to do with the president's car. They need to be updated with newer and better security.
27
Nov 19, 2008 at 06:29 PM bitachon Says:
ALL THE GM AND FORD EXECS DRIVE LEXUSES!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAH HAH!! GUESS WHAT THAT SAYS ABOUT THEIR TRASHY PRODUCTS
GO TOYOTA!!!
28
Nov 19, 2008 at 08:36 PM murray Says:
“ Whats unemployment going to cost America for 3 million workers that lose their jobs? A lot more than $25 billion.
Whats it going to cost America when 3 million people will be unisured and the government is going to pay for there hospital bills? A lot more than $25 billion.
How is going to effect the economy when 3 million people can no longer pay their morgages, credit card bills and spend money on consumer goods? A lot more than $25 billion.
If the car manufacters shut down how much tax is the government gonna lose? A lot more than $25 billion.
Every time someone will buy a car the money gets sent overseas. ”
so, your justification for bailing their sorry a**es out is in effect we must, as in we are being held hostage to these other costs and ramifications. That is Blackmail, or more correctly extortion, union type tactics, racketeering.
Why don't you move to Somalia and become a pirate, You can be the next "Blackbeard"----Yo Ho Ho, and a bottle of rum!
29
Nov 19, 2008 at 09:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ so, your justification for bailing their sorry a**es out is in effect we must, as in we are being held hostage to these other costs and ramifications. That is Blackmail, or more correctly extortion, union type tactics, racketeering.
Why don't you move to Somalia and become a pirate, You can be the next "Blackbeard"----Yo Ho Ho, and a bottle of rum! ”
I take it you don't in the auto mobile industry.
30
Nov 19, 2008 at 09:18 PM abi gezunt Says:
i also noticed that the car in the picture does not look like any of the us brands it lookes like a mercedes or lexus did anybody els noticed that ? if the ceo is not driving one why shuld we
31
Nov 19, 2008 at 10:04 PM jacob Says:
“ It's no different than what all Gevirim, multi Millionaires, who are now all saying that they can no longer afford to support their prior pattern of Tzedaka, because of the economy, yet, every single Jewish Philanthropist, continue their own personal lavish lifestyle, while poor Yidden are starving?
The only difference is, that if this was said, about any Jewish Philanthropists, then everyone would yell "Loshon Hara" and "how can you say that" and that it's "Anti Semitism" (if the Times said that about Jewish Philanthropists).
But if they say the exact same thing, (in different words) about a Goy, then we accept it, without any problem. ”
they are not asking for a bail out and also the amount they have to give to tzedakah is only maaser and most philanthropists are giveing that amount we hope so there for don't compare
32
Nov 19, 2008 at 10:55 PM Unlikely Says:
“ They have these planes to allow for flying to far off places or places where there may not be efficient transportation or access to their factories or their suppliers factories. They also have the planes for their own safety because they make lots of enemies from ex-employees.
The Times shouldn't throw stones - I am sure they have a jet and they are loosing tons of money cause no one is reading their paper anymore. ”
You are full of it, howdo you think the employees of thoes plants arrive there, were they born there, or do they have privat jets as well!
Perhaps, you enjoy writing comments to demonstrate your dumbness!!!!
33
Nov 19, 2008 at 10:51 PM Anonymous Says:
You people are pathetic , maybe your moshiach obama will stop allowing corporations to own private jets, they can even ban congress men , senators and even the president from flying on personal luxury jets. He can sell airforce one and can fly cheaper on commercial flights if he books his flight 3 weeks in advance . he can use the 100 billion dollars that he gets from selling air force one (and the decoy plane ) that he sells on ebay to help with the bailout .
34
Nov 19, 2008 at 10:49 PM Unlikely Says:
“ Sorry but the Gemara says: If someone looses his fortune and he is used to ride in white horses the tzibir has to supply them with White Horses.....The same goes to those big CEO..???????
Oh boy i cant wait for all my replys on here.... ”
Yea! The only differance is that; thoes CEO's were voted in by the board of directors, it is not their company, they are only the ones making the financial dicisions. The fact that they live now in a lavarage lifesyle, beacause of their current paycheck can not make us to accept him as a "yored"
35
Nov 19, 2008 at 11:03 PM Unlikely Says:
“ Whats unemployment going to cost America for 3 million workers that lose their jobs? A lot more than $25 billion.
Whats it going to cost America when 3 million people will be unisured and the government is going to pay for there hospital bills? A lot more than $25 billion.
How is going to effect the economy when 3 million people can no longer pay their morgages, credit card bills and spend money on consumer goods? A lot more than $25 billion.
If the car manufacters shut down how much tax is the government gonna lose? A lot more than $25 billion.
Every time someone will buy a car the money gets sent overseas. ”
In they file for bancrupcy protection, they will be able to reorganize and the board of directors elect someone who is competant enough to replace the sitting CEO's and obviosly to somehow get rid of the current employee benefits that the arogant UAW sets forth.
The plants will not shut down for good, they are there, and are able for production, its just that the current situation will not be fixed by a bailout - which we are the ones paying for it - cause; if the current situation prevents them from being profitable, they will have the same problem when the $25bb will be spent. Ha?
36
Nov 20, 2008 at 10:39 AM Anonymous Says:
“ #20 and you really think that it will ONLY be 25 billion?, go back day dreaming, 25 billion is the START and what you know, whats with the other billions we dont know.
And so thats the reason we should keep putting in money in a company that will ANYWAYS go bankrupt down the line, look the best is they go bankrupt and they reorganize, they can start by NOT giving every employee a free car with $140 insurance per year every year, - are you aware of that perk? they can start by re negotiating their contracts and offer 401k pension styles, they can start by selling their jets, they can start by doing many things, trust me they will find out the hard way, and lastly dont worry about the goverment if they can find 700 billion for bailouts and they can find 25 billion for the car companies they will find money for their hospital bills, dont be so naieve.
”
#22 - They did. In 2010, new employees heathcare costs will be borne by th union, not GM. New employees starting salaries are cut in half. Production has been cut in half. You have to remember, it takes two to tango. GM can't unilaterally change to a 401k as you suggest; their union will strike. Especially now, GM can't afford a shut down.
37
Nov 20, 2008 at 10:45 AM Anonymous Says:
“ In they file for bancrupcy protection, they will be able to reorganize and the board of directors elect someone who is competant enough to replace the sitting CEO's and obviosly to somehow get rid of the current employee benefits that the arogant UAW sets forth.
The plants will not shut down for good, they are there, and are able for production, its just that the current situation will not be fixed by a bailout - which we are the ones paying for it - cause; if the current situation prevents them from being profitable, they will have the same problem when the $25bb will be spent. Ha? ”
#35 - I don't know if the $25 billion is the answer. However, bankruptcy has far reaching consequences. If GM files they won't be able to pay their suppliers who are working on thin margins as it is (for knowledgeable readers critical vendor status will be difficult). Those suppliers (who also supply our defense industry) may very well fail as well. Although it must be taken with a grain of salt, GM estimates total job losses of 3 million within a year of its filing. What would job losses of even half that do to our economy?