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Brooklyn, NY - Dial-in Phone System Offers Live Hookups To Daily Minyanim

Published on: March 7, 2016 11:37 AM
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Brooklyn, NY - A Williamsburg rabbi has launched a telephone hookup that gives those who are bedridden, homebound, elderly or far from a shul the opportunity to daven with a live minyan three times a day.

LiveJewishPrayer.com is the brainchild of Williamsburg resident Rabbi Pinchas Gold.  As part of the Satmar Bikur Cholim, Rabbi Gold was a frequent visitor to area hospitals, delivering meals to patients who would frequently ask that he remember them in his davening.

“It is beautiful that we are giving people food for their bodies but we decided to provide food for their souls as well,” Rabbi Gold told VIN. “Every person has their own definition of how they want to pray to Hashem.  Why not give them the opportunity to do it on their own?”

A team of software developers spent two years creating what Rabbi Gold described as “the largest digital synagogue in the world.”  The telephone hookup is linked to three daily minyanim at Lubavitch World Headquarters at 770 Eastern Parkway, with Shachris currently at 10 AM, Mincha at 3:15 PM and Maariv at 6:45 PM.

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The project is under the rabbinical supervision of Rabbi Gold’s brother, the Lubliner Rav, Rabbi Mendl Elimelech Gold, and was funded by Yisroel Leibowitz, executive director of Ahava Medical Rehabilitation  and Urgent Care Medical Centers.

“I am involved in a lot of homes and had been asked by a lot of people to help them out,” said Leibowitz.  “People were feeling very lonely and were never able to daven with a minyan.”

The telephone hookup, which can be reached at 212-493-3636, can support 40,000 calls simultaneously. Rabbi Gold estimated that the digital minyanim have been accessed 20,000 times since the system went live this past October.

Leibowitz said that he has received considerable positive feedback from those who have taken advantage of the telephone minyan hookup.

“People told me that the day was just too long for them, but now that they can daven with a minyan three times a day if feels much shorter to them,” said Leibowitz.

Williamsburg resident Rabbi Pinchas Gold.Williamsburg resident Rabbi Pinchas Gold.

Calls have come in to the system from hospitals across the East Coast and the Mayo Clinic, according to Rabbi Gold.  Baalei teshuva who have no access to a shul have also been dialing in and telling Rabbi Gold that the davening hookups have become part of their daily routine.  Holocaust survivors who are fiercely determined to get to shul under any circumstances are another demographic that Rabbi Gold hopes will make use of the system.

“My own father is 90 and went through Auschwitz,” said Rabbi Gold.  “For people like him, who were deprived of the opportunity to daven, davening is an extremely important part of their lives.”
In addition to the spiritual component of davening, Rabbi Gold noted that his telephone hookup also offers additional benefits, giving those who may be isolated in a remote location or a hospital bed a much needed sense of belonging.

“Not only can people daven with a minyan when they are isolated, they can feel like they are part of a social community,” said Rabbi Gold. “They are singing; they are davening.  They are never alone and that is the power of this davening line.”

The minyan hotline features a weekly shiur and a new nightly telephone mishnayos shiur kicked off this week at a different number, with a live conference format that gives callers the opportunity to ask questions and discuss the subject matter.  Currently all shiurim are in Yiddish and are given by the Lubliner Rav.

VIN News reached out to several rabbonim to discuss the halachic ramifications of davening with a digital minyan but none were available to comment at the time of publication.

Online:
http://www.livejewishprayer.com/ 


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Read Comments (30)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Mar 07, 2016 at 11:56 AM anonymous Says:

A superb idea! Only ones who are so much into chessed and understanding of others like Williamsburger yidden, can come up with such noble suggestions. And housewives/mothers who want to daven with a minian can make use of this hookup too. Kol Hakavod!

2

 Mar 07, 2016 at 11:55 AM zooog Says:

I am afraid Lubliner Rav shul on 41st can close down His mispallelim will go digital

3

 Mar 07, 2016 at 12:49 PM SHMOO2 Says:

This is a wonderful thing for bedridden people, but I would caution readers who are physically able to go to shul, not to take advantage of this, as they may or may not be yotzai. I am not a posek, but I don't see how this could be ok Halachicly, unless the choleh has no other option.

4

 Mar 07, 2016 at 01:36 PM inNY Says:

Mr Lebowitz is a super Baal Tzedakah and funds many of those unknown ideas.. May he be Gebentched

5

 Mar 07, 2016 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
SHMOO2 Says:

This is a wonderful thing for bedridden people, but I would caution readers who are physically able to go to shul, not to take advantage of this, as they may or may not be yotzai. I am not a posek, but I don't see how this could be ok Halachicly, unless the choleh has no other option.

Let Hashem decide, who are you to even make such a comment.

6

 Mar 07, 2016 at 02:59 PM You CAN answer Amen via Telephone Says:

Reply to #3  
SHMOO2 Says:

This is a wonderful thing for bedridden people, but I would caution readers who are physically able to go to shul, not to take advantage of this, as they may or may not be yotzai. I am not a posek, but I don't see how this could be ok Halachicly, unless the choleh has no other option.

Most Poskim hold that you CAN answer Amen, whenever you hear a Bracha on the phone, because it is Toch Kedey Dibur.

It's a beferushe gemara about the Shul in Aleksandria of Mitzraim, which was so long that no one in the back of the shull could hear the Chazan, yet everyone answered Amen, because they knew the precise moment in time when to answer Amen, Toch Kedey Dibur.

Similarly regarding Davening with a Minyan, no one argues that if one is physically capable of going to shull, that he should and that he must do so.

However for all those who are not well or who have any other reason why they are physically not capable of being in shull regularly, the Shulchan Aruch says clearly, that one can and SHOULD daven at home "with a VIRTUAL minyan" by simply TIMING his davening to be at the precise same time when people are davening in shull (if the person has no other option).

Certainly when you are listening on the phone LIVE, your timing is perfect and al pi shulchan aruch it's BEFERUSH that it's not only permissible but that one is OBLIGATED to connect himself to the "virtual minyan", by davening at the exact same time, together with the minyan, of the remote location.

Kol Hakofod to all the Organisers and those funding it.

7

 Mar 07, 2016 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm homebound, and I can't physically make it to shull 3 times per day because of my medical condition.

This Live Minyan is my lifeline!

I no words to thank you, so much!

When I call the number and I participate in the live davening, all my aches and pains go away and I feel like I'm in shull in actuality.

There is no better medicine for any sic person than to feel you are together with everyone in shull 3 times daily even if only virtually.

I told my doctor, that when I call the number, it works for me, better than all his prescription, pain killer medications and I asked my doctor to "prescribe" it to every Yid in Pain because it REALLY WORKS!

I also love the singing before and after davening. It's very Leibedig singing and it keeps me joyful all day long. It's the one thing I look forward to, all day!

8

 Mar 07, 2016 at 03:51 PM K Says:

Great innovation, but I am wondering:

Shachris starts at 10 am???

Then shmone esrei is at 10:30-10:40.

Wouldn't that be past zman tefilah many of the months of the year???

9

 Mar 07, 2016 at 05:00 PM yaakov doe Says:

Any option for those that are always late and wish to talk during davening?

10

 Mar 07, 2016 at 06:08 PM Zman tefila Says:

Reply to #8  
K Says:

Great innovation, but I am wondering:

Shachris starts at 10 am???

Then shmone esrei is at 10:30-10:40.

Wouldn't that be past zman tefilah many of the months of the year???

In my shul the bulletin had zaman tefilah today at 10:11. If shachris starts at 10, they have 11 minutes to get to amidah!!

11

 Mar 07, 2016 at 06:59 PM IamYid Says:

Reply to #8  
K Says:

Great innovation, but I am wondering:

Shachris starts at 10 am???

Then shmone esrei is at 10:30-10:40.

Wouldn't that be past zman tefilah many of the months of the year???

You beat me to it. Some people are not that concerned with zmanim. I remember I flew into London on chol-hamoed Succos several years ago at some ridiculous time, didn't get up until nearly 11 and was about to doven b'yehidus, when a friend of the family showed up and told me he will drive me to the minyan at the Satmar beis medrash. And he knew what he was doing! We got there a mere minutes after the dovening started. Out of respect, I put on my tefillin in a small classroom and took them off right after Shma and dovened with a large minyan the rest of the shacharis and musaf. Even though they dovened ridiculously fast, by the time we were done, you could almost doven mincha.

12

 Mar 07, 2016 at 07:37 PM Davening Properly with Kavana vs. Only "Zman Tfila" Says:

Reply to #8  
K Says:

Great innovation, but I am wondering:

Shachris starts at 10 am???

Then shmone esrei is at 10:30-10:40.

Wouldn't that be past zman tefilah many of the months of the year???

#1) Bedieved one may Daven till Chatzos and for unwell people one may rely on this. Also for them this would probably be the most ideal time.

#2 ) Although some people only concern themselves with just one aspect of Hilchos Tefila, regarding Zaman Tefila, in truth, there are many other Halochos of Tefila which they sacrifice, ignore or discount in order to start or finish "on time".

This type of approach to "Zman Tefila" is not only wrong but rooted in ignorance.

Because the same Shulchan Aruch which speaks of Zman Tefila, also speaks of many other criteria and preconditions, of Hachana to Davening and the requirement to Daven with great Kavana and in the right frame of mind.

This is accomplished by most Chassidim and Anshei Maaseh by learning Chassidus before davening and also by doing many other Hachonos before Davening.

For most people there is a tradeoff and those who rush for time are scarificing the Iker for the Tafel .

That's why we see that it always was and still is a common practice by many Tzadikim and countess Rebbe's and Talmidei Chachomim and by chassidim who follow their ways, to Daven at a much later time.

Those who rush for time, most often, are NOT learning Chassidus before Davening and thearfore, although they gain the Tafel of Zman Tefila but loose out on the Iker of Tefila Be kavana and Proper Hergesh.

They conveniently forget the "***EIN*** Omdim Lehispalel ***ELA*** Mitoch Koved Rosh.

Simply said it is a matter of:
"Yatza Schoro Behefsedoy".

13

 Mar 07, 2016 at 07:48 PM Maaseh Rav Says:

Maaseh Rav (all pi halacha we paskrn al pi maaseh rav and minhag Yisrael Torah He).

We see that tens of thousands of Tzadikim and Talmidei Chachomim daven later (regardless of what their reason is).

Thearfore if you understand it or don't understand is Irrelivent.

But 1 thing is 100% for sure that if tens of thousands of Tzadikim, Talmidei Chachomim and Rebbe's have done so, for countless decades it is for sure 100% perfectly in compliance with Halacha (even if someone's SMALL head has yet to understand the behavior of those who are far greater than them).

In addition we see that those who daven later are usually DAVKA the ones who are more MEHADER in all mitzvos.

14

 Mar 07, 2016 at 08:38 PM myoppnion Says:

family member is in hospital acutely using it the doctor are saying this hotline is the new wonder drug
once you start dawning and able to say amen and listen and pray with the mnion its like flying away from all your immediate issues you can only understand the power of this if you really need it we should never have to use it , appreciate the fact you can go wonderfully project and thanks to every one involved

15

 Mar 07, 2016 at 08:40 PM kvodhrav Says:

לכבוד המייסד והרב שליט"א "כל המזכה את הרבים" כה לחי עלה והצלח

16

 Mar 07, 2016 at 09:18 PM K Says:

Reply to #12  
Davening Properly with Kavana vs. Only "Zman Tfila" Says:

#1) Bedieved one may Daven till Chatzos and for unwell people one may rely on this. Also for them this would probably be the most ideal time.

#2 ) Although some people only concern themselves with just one aspect of Hilchos Tefila, regarding Zaman Tefila, in truth, there are many other Halochos of Tefila which they sacrifice, ignore or discount in order to start or finish "on time".

This type of approach to "Zman Tefila" is not only wrong but rooted in ignorance.

Because the same Shulchan Aruch which speaks of Zman Tefila, also speaks of many other criteria and preconditions, of Hachana to Davening and the requirement to Daven with great Kavana and in the right frame of mind.

This is accomplished by most Chassidim and Anshei Maaseh by learning Chassidus before davening and also by doing many other Hachonos before Davening.

For most people there is a tradeoff and those who rush for time are scarificing the Iker for the Tafel .

That's why we see that it always was and still is a common practice by many Tzadikim and countess Rebbe's and Talmidei Chachomim and by chassidim who follow their ways, to Daven at a much later time.

Those who rush for time, most often, are NOT learning Chassidus before Davening and thearfore, although they gain the Tafel of Zman Tefila but loose out on the Iker of Tefila Be kavana and Proper Hergesh.

They conveniently forget the "***EIN*** Omdim Lehispalel ***ELA*** Mitoch Koved Rosh.

Simply said it is a matter of:
"Yatza Schoro Behefsedoy".

I wonder if you apply your approach also to Shabbos: "some people only concern themselves with just one aspect of Hilchos SHABBOS, regarding Zamanei SHABBOS, in truth, there are many other Halochos of SHABBOS which they sacrifice, ignore or discount in order to start or finish "on time"."

Shabbos has many halochos, and yet C"V to discount the start time or finish time of Shabbos! Maybe you are okay with starting shabbos an hour after nightfall or ending shabbos an hour before tzeis. That is NOT ok - even if you keep the remaining hours of shabbos with lots of kavanah and learn zohar all the time!

That is plain KRUM!!

The same applies to Tefila!!! All the kavonos and learning before davening does not make it ok to start after the zman.

17

 Mar 07, 2016 at 09:25 PM Zman Tefilah Says:

Reply to #13  
Maaseh Rav Says:

Maaseh Rav (all pi halacha we paskrn al pi maaseh rav and minhag Yisrael Torah He).

We see that tens of thousands of Tzadikim and Talmidei Chachomim daven later (regardless of what their reason is).

Thearfore if you understand it or don't understand is Irrelivent.

But 1 thing is 100% for sure that if tens of thousands of Tzadikim, Talmidei Chachomim and Rebbe's have done so, for countless decades it is for sure 100% perfectly in compliance with Halacha (even if someone's SMALL head has yet to understand the behavior of those who are far greater than them).

In addition we see that those who daven later are usually DAVKA the ones who are more MEHADER in all mitzvos.

So if you see a Rav or a Tzaddik or Talmid Chochom do something opposite shulchan oruch (like he is eating on Yom Kippur) - you have a heter to do as he did?!

That is total nonsense!

Maybe he has a specialcircunstance that allows for eating on Yom Kippur that does not apply to you (maybe he is a choleh sh'yesh bo sakana), but C"V for you to dispense with a clear halacha because you saw a maaseh rav!!!

18

 Mar 07, 2016 at 09:29 PM 3-minute man Says:

Reply to #10  
Zman tefila Says:

In my shul the bulletin had zaman tefilah today at 10:11. If shachris starts at 10, they have 11 minutes to get to amidah!!

My minyan: Hodu to shema in 3-minutes. So 11 minutes is plenty of time!

19

 Mar 07, 2016 at 11:03 PM mugsisme Says:

Doctors make rounds early in the morning. I'm guessing they picked that time because the cholim are available to give their full attention at that time.
Yasher koach, it's a beautiful idea.

20

 Mar 07, 2016 at 11:45 PM #17 Hackt A Cheinik Says:

WHAT in the world are you (#17) talking about????

You want to compare something one person did once in a lifetime...to WHAT??????

We are not talking about "an exception to the rule" but a MINHAG YISROEL of tens of thousands of of Tzadikim, Rebbe's and Thousands of Chassidim world wide for many many generations, day in day out - to Daven Late?

How can anyone have even the slightest doubt that it is a million percent in order?

21

 Mar 08, 2016 at 09:25 AM K Says:

Reply to #20  
#17 Hackt A Cheinik Says:

WHAT in the world are you (#17) talking about????

You want to compare something one person did once in a lifetime...to WHAT??????

We are not talking about "an exception to the rule" but a MINHAG YISROEL of tens of thousands of of Tzadikim, Rebbe's and Thousands of Chassidim world wide for many many generations, day in day out - to Daven Late?

How can anyone have even the slightest doubt that it is a million percent in order?

What about the "MINHAG YISROEL of tens of thousands of of Tzadikim, Gedolei Yisroel, Rosh Yeshivos and bnei Torah world wide for many many generations, day in day out"... to be VERY makpid on zman tefilah and go to extreme lengths not to C"V to oyver on a zman tefilah? To them zman tefilah isn't a "minhag" but a din in shulchan oruch - which they happen to keep meticulously.

22

 Mar 08, 2016 at 10:32 AM Toni Says:

This is really a really nice idea. It will help so many people, especially those who are elderly and sick. This will be something for some people in my family. This will help so many people stay connected.

But also the younger ones of us. This service really should have an APP. It would be so nice!

23

 Mar 08, 2016 at 02:28 PM shabbos Says:

what are the shabbos zmanim?

24

 Mar 08, 2016 at 03:35 PM Live and Let Live Says:

To Mr K comment #21

All Tzadikim who prefer to daven "late", in order to be more properly prepared and have more kavana, they have no complaints against you or against anyone who wants to daven earlier.

Neither should those who prefer to daven early, have any complaints or criticism of those who prefer to daven later.

It's about time that you realise that hashem didn't create this world to be only "black and white" but instead hashem chose (not by accident chas vesholom, but by design) that this TORAH world should and does come, in all shades of gray and in all diversified colors.

There are thousands of different minhagim among different segments of frum Yidden and we should all respect our differences and if we choose to disagree, that's OK, too:

"Respectfully agree to disagree"
and that's fine
and more than just fine
its the specific intentional design which hashem wanted.

Hashem did not want all yidden to daven one nusach but rather that we be diversified and some daven nusach Ashkenaz and some nusach Sefard and some nusach ari etc.

Likewise hashem wanted the differences of Ashkenazi vs Sefardic and Misnagdim vs Chassidim - all are part of the great united Mosaic which hashem wants and needs all these differences that we should all have our differences and still respect our differences.

The above is what it says in Seforim Hakdoshim.

Differences within frum Jews always existed from the begining of time and even a young child, who ever learnt a Blat Gemoro, knows this.

The only thing which is NOT OK is when someone sits back, himself and essentially does "NOTHING" productive (to benefit klal yisroel) and then suddenly "wakes up" to criticise, others who DO by asking tamevate, naive questions, like "why did you do it like this and not like that" or dig up from under the ground, to search for, (maybe he will be "lucky" to be able to find) a possible negative aspect of it.

If anyone wants to Daven Kevasikin (something mentioned in shulchan aruch yet 99.99% of those of whom you look up to don't do it!!!) - why don't you go ahead and do it, yourself? But don't criticise those who who choose a time gor Davening which hundreds of thousands of Rabbonim and Gedolim approve of.

If you want to make a live minyan KEVASIKIN then I say to you "good luck"!

(Kevasikin is mentioned in shulchan aruch yet 99.99% of Gedolim never did it).

But don't give criticism to hundreds of thousands of Chassidim Rabbnim who ate just as BIG as your Gedolim (or maybe even bigger) who daven according to timing which their Rabbonim approve as being Al Pi Halacha at a proper halachically OK time, namely Shachris at 10 am, or at a later time.

25

 Mar 08, 2016 at 08:47 PM K Says:

Reply to #24  
Live and Let Live Says:

To Mr K comment #21

All Tzadikim who prefer to daven "late", in order to be more properly prepared and have more kavana, they have no complaints against you or against anyone who wants to daven earlier.

Neither should those who prefer to daven early, have any complaints or criticism of those who prefer to daven later.

It's about time that you realise that hashem didn't create this world to be only "black and white" but instead hashem chose (not by accident chas vesholom, but by design) that this TORAH world should and does come, in all shades of gray and in all diversified colors.

There are thousands of different minhagim among different segments of frum Yidden and we should all respect our differences and if we choose to disagree, that's OK, too:

"Respectfully agree to disagree"
and that's fine
and more than just fine
its the specific intentional design which hashem wanted.

Hashem did not want all yidden to daven one nusach but rather that we be diversified and some daven nusach Ashkenaz and some nusach Sefard and some nusach ari etc.

Likewise hashem wanted the differences of Ashkenazi vs Sefardic and Misnagdim vs Chassidim - all are part of the great united Mosaic which hashem wants and needs all these differences that we should all have our differences and still respect our differences.

The above is what it says in Seforim Hakdoshim.

Differences within frum Jews always existed from the begining of time and even a young child, who ever learnt a Blat Gemoro, knows this.

The only thing which is NOT OK is when someone sits back, himself and essentially does "NOTHING" productive (to benefit klal yisroel) and then suddenly "wakes up" to criticise, others who DO by asking tamevate, naive questions, like "why did you do it like this and not like that" or dig up from under the ground, to search for, (maybe he will be "lucky" to be able to find) a possible negative aspect of it.

If anyone wants to Daven Kevasikin (something mentioned in shulchan aruch yet 99.99% of those of whom you look up to don't do it!!!) - why don't you go ahead and do it, yourself? But don't criticise those who who choose a time gor Davening which hundreds of thousands of Rabbonim and Gedolim approve of.

If you want to make a live minyan KEVASIKIN then I say to you "good luck"!

(Kevasikin is mentioned in shulchan aruch yet 99.99% of Gedolim never did it).

But don't give criticism to hundreds of thousands of Chassidim Rabbnim who ate just as BIG as your Gedolim (or maybe even bigger) who daven according to timing which their Rabbonim approve as being Al Pi Halacha at a proper halachically OK time, namely Shachris at 10 am, or at a later time.

Indeed there are many minhagim, a variety of nussuch hatfilah, and even conflicting opinions in halacha itself.

But when someone does somethig CONTRARY to accepted halacha (a.k.a. shulchan oruch), there MUST be a halachic source for doing so.

You see, I have no problem if someone does a certain thing contrary to Mishne Brura but instead follows the Oruch Hashulchan or Rav SHulchan Oruch or Kaf Hachayim or a Shu"t from an accepted possek. After all he is following a halachic source.

I have no problem if someone follows the Bais Yossef and not the Ramo or follows.the GRA Chasam or Sofer and not the Mogen Avrohom. There is a reliable source for him.

But what is the source for totally disregarding zman tefilah? If there is a source, even an OBSCURE halachic source, then by all means - let us know.

But if there is no source whatsoever, then it is simply prikas ol of halacha, and all the good intentions / kavana or being otherwise a perfectly frum yid, even a Tzaddik by all accounts, does not give someone the green light to toss away a single din of shulchan oruch.

Sorry, but being a Tzaddik does not allow a person to break away from halacha.

26

 Mar 09, 2016 at 08:08 AM Zman Tefilah Says:

Reply to #23  
shabbos Says:

what are the shabbos zmanim?

Shabbos zmanim each have halachos that apply to that time, beginning with candle lighting times, shkiya (Rashi or Rabbenu Tam), bein hashmoshos etc. till three stars and the shitos of when shabbos ends.

Shabbos zmanim are very serious to every frum yid. No one says that we can simply ignore these zmanim.

There are also zmanim for chometz on Erev Pessach, like the latest time to eat chometz and the latest time to burn chometz. If someone is busy with great kavonos or preperations - he still cannot go past these times and eat chometz after the zman or burn the chometz after the zman!

Zman tefilah is also a set prescribed zman.

27

 Mar 09, 2016 at 01:58 PM Live 'n Let Live Says:

Reply to #24  
Live and Let Live Says:

To Mr K comment #21

All Tzadikim who prefer to daven "late", in order to be more properly prepared and have more kavana, they have no complaints against you or against anyone who wants to daven earlier.

Neither should those who prefer to daven early, have any complaints or criticism of those who prefer to daven later.

It's about time that you realise that hashem didn't create this world to be only "black and white" but instead hashem chose (not by accident chas vesholom, but by design) that this TORAH world should and does come, in all shades of gray and in all diversified colors.

There are thousands of different minhagim among different segments of frum Yidden and we should all respect our differences and if we choose to disagree, that's OK, too:

"Respectfully agree to disagree"
and that's fine
and more than just fine
its the specific intentional design which hashem wanted.

Hashem did not want all yidden to daven one nusach but rather that we be diversified and some daven nusach Ashkenaz and some nusach Sefard and some nusach ari etc.

Likewise hashem wanted the differences of Ashkenazi vs Sefardic and Misnagdim vs Chassidim - all are part of the great united Mosaic which hashem wants and needs all these differences that we should all have our differences and still respect our differences.

The above is what it says in Seforim Hakdoshim.

Differences within frum Jews always existed from the begining of time and even a young child, who ever learnt a Blat Gemoro, knows this.

The only thing which is NOT OK is when someone sits back, himself and essentially does "NOTHING" productive (to benefit klal yisroel) and then suddenly "wakes up" to criticise, others who DO by asking tamevate, naive questions, like "why did you do it like this and not like that" or dig up from under the ground, to search for, (maybe he will be "lucky" to be able to find) a possible negative aspect of it.

If anyone wants to Daven Kevasikin (something mentioned in shulchan aruch yet 99.99% of those of whom you look up to don't do it!!!) - why don't you go ahead and do it, yourself? But don't criticise those who who choose a time gor Davening which hundreds of thousands of Rabbonim and Gedolim approve of.

If you want to make a live minyan KEVASIKIN then I say to you "good luck"!

(Kevasikin is mentioned in shulchan aruch yet 99.99% of Gedolim never did it).

But don't give criticism to hundreds of thousands of Chassidim Rabbnim who ate just as BIG as your Gedolim (or maybe even bigger) who daven according to timing which their Rabbonim approve as being Al Pi Halacha at a proper halachically OK time, namely Shachris at 10 am, or at a later time.

Sure, live and let live.

Let these people ignore the time when shabbos starts - even starting shabbos at mid-night or let them end shabbos as early as they want - even mid afternoon.

But for some reason THESE SAME PEOPLE, if they see other people driving on shabbos, they will throw rocks at them!

28

 Mar 10, 2016 at 02:03 PM Daas Torah says 10am Shachris is fine Says:

To #27

This is not about what "these people".....

This is an official shita which thousands and thousands of Rabbonim Paskened is OK.

Not everything, ***"YOU"*** have to understand.

But one thing is a million percent for sure, and that is that those THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of Chassidim, of all kinds of different Chassidin, who Daven at 10am, do so with the halachic approval of their greatest Rabbonkm, who's "DAAS TORAH" is just as great and likely perhaps even far greater than your favored type of "DAAS TORAH" whom you follow blindly.

There is more than just ONE type of "DAAS TORAH".

You follow ***BLINDLY*** your favored individuals rabbis or roshey yeshiva, who you think is ***"The"*** DAAS Torah.

While many other yidden who may be far better and also greater than you, have their own Gedolim, who pasken al pi Halacha that 10am is a perfectly ok time to daven and only jusy "ok" but is far more MEHADAR time to daven, than those who daven earlier ( if they learned chasdidish before and went to the Mikve before, something you "big ones" never ever did yet even once, yet except once a year erev yom kipur maybe.)

So says thousands of "GEDOLIM" who do so every day of the year, in Satmar, in Munkatch, in Bobov and in thousands of other of the MOST frum and most Mehudar communities of Yidden.

While many of those who pride themselves of davening earlier, very often, rely on being mekil on not going to the mikveh every day and not even Tevilas Ezra and rely on every so called "heter" to be mekil in shaving (Isur deorsysa according to many) and they drink cholov akum (relying on "heter" of "cholov stam"), they eat questionable bishul akum and pass palter and they DONT PUT ON RABENU TAM'S TEFILLIN - although shulchan aruch says that Yerey Shomayim should do Rabenu Tama Tefilin so by not doing it they self-proclaim upon themselves (neeman hu lifsol es atzmoy) as testifying on themselves that they are not SO Yerey shomayim.

But yet are bailey gaaveh, priding themselves that only they daven before 10am, suddenly these Kaley Hadaas who shave (Isur DEORAYSA according to the overwhelming majority of poskim) - suddenly they wake up that only "they" are frum enough.

As Chazan say in the Gemoro:

"Before giving Musar to others to remove a TOOTHPICK from between someone else's teeth"

Why don't you "first remove your huge BOLDER, which is on your face, right between your eyes".

The bottom line is that davening at 10am is sanctioned by DAAS TORAH and by "THE_GDOLIM" - even if you have your Gedolim and others have their Gedolim and no one has a right to question the DAAS torah of THE Gedolim, regardess if it's "your gedolim" or if it's "my gedolim".

29

 Mar 11, 2016 at 12:41 PM K Says:

Reply to #28  
Daas Torah says 10am Shachris is fine Says:

To #27

This is not about what "these people".....

This is an official shita which thousands and thousands of Rabbonim Paskened is OK.

Not everything, ***"YOU"*** have to understand.

But one thing is a million percent for sure, and that is that those THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of Chassidim, of all kinds of different Chassidin, who Daven at 10am, do so with the halachic approval of their greatest Rabbonkm, who's "DAAS TORAH" is just as great and likely perhaps even far greater than your favored type of "DAAS TORAH" whom you follow blindly.

There is more than just ONE type of "DAAS TORAH".

You follow ***BLINDLY*** your favored individuals rabbis or roshey yeshiva, who you think is ***"The"*** DAAS Torah.

While many other yidden who may be far better and also greater than you, have their own Gedolim, who pasken al pi Halacha that 10am is a perfectly ok time to daven and only jusy "ok" but is far more MEHADAR time to daven, than those who daven earlier ( if they learned chasdidish before and went to the Mikve before, something you "big ones" never ever did yet even once, yet except once a year erev yom kipur maybe.)

So says thousands of "GEDOLIM" who do so every day of the year, in Satmar, in Munkatch, in Bobov and in thousands of other of the MOST frum and most Mehudar communities of Yidden.

While many of those who pride themselves of davening earlier, very often, rely on being mekil on not going to the mikveh every day and not even Tevilas Ezra and rely on every so called "heter" to be mekil in shaving (Isur deorsysa according to many) and they drink cholov akum (relying on "heter" of "cholov stam"), they eat questionable bishul akum and pass palter and they DONT PUT ON RABENU TAM'S TEFILLIN - although shulchan aruch says that Yerey Shomayim should do Rabenu Tama Tefilin so by not doing it they self-proclaim upon themselves (neeman hu lifsol es atzmoy) as testifying on themselves that they are not SO Yerey shomayim.

But yet are bailey gaaveh, priding themselves that only they daven before 10am, suddenly these Kaley Hadaas who shave (Isur DEORAYSA according to the overwhelming majority of poskim) - suddenly they wake up that only "they" are frum enough.

As Chazan say in the Gemoro:

"Before giving Musar to others to remove a TOOTHPICK from between someone else's teeth"

Why don't you "first remove your huge BOLDER, which is on your face, right between your eyes".

The bottom line is that davening at 10am is sanctioned by DAAS TORAH and by "THE_GDOLIM" - even if you have your Gedolim and others have their Gedolim and no one has a right to question the DAAS torah of THE Gedolim, regardess if it's "your gedolim" or if it's "my gedolim".

Instead of the gibberish editorial comment, please provide ONE printed source (literally any sefer, any mokor, anything in print, from any stream of Judaism) that says it is okay to daven after zman tefilah - contrary to shulchan oruch. Just ONE printed source!

But alas, there simply is NO such source.

Do you know why?

Because it is NOT sanctioned by halacha.

End of story.

30

 Mar 14, 2016 at 07:19 PM #17 Hackt A Cheinik Says:

WHAT in the world are you (#17) talking about????

You want to compare something one person did once in a lifetime...to WHAT??????

We are not talking about "an exception to the rule" but a MINHAG YISROEL of tens of thousands of of Tzadikim, Rebbe's and Thousands of Chassidim world wide for many many generations, day in day out - to Daven Late?

How can anyone have even the slightest doubt that it is a million percent in order?

31

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