“ Uhh how about paying for your own plane back to israel then ”

“ Uhh how about paying for your own plane back to israel then ”

“ Oy, to have to go through this after all that has happened! Nebech on the family!!!! ”

“ Uhh how about paying for your own plane back to israel then ”

“ #2, you just had your loved one murdered? If not then shut up and...
BTW, imegine you are a Jewish American GI, and R"L get killed in duty, andyou reject the American offer to bury ur loved one in Arlington vecause you want to do a halachic burial, will you then "understand" the family? ”

“ How about flying the unfortunate to Palestine --a.k.a. the West Bank-- for burial. Will that feel more like home than the holy cemeteries whose upkeep and security are under the stewardship of the modern State of Israel? What a shanda among our people: to object in this manner, at this time of horror, to all who cherish Israeli citizenship and its accompanying duties in the Israeli Defense Forces, may G-d bless all who now serve in the IDF and keep them from harm. ”

“ #2, you just had your loved one murdered? If not then shut up and...
BTW, imegine you are a Jewish American GI, and R"L get killed in duty, andyou reject the American offer to bury ur loved one in Arlington vecause you want to do a halachic burial, will you then "understand" the family? ”

“ state of israel does NOT represend jews! !!!!!!!
the state of israel is (kevuchel) a knive in god's heard !!!!!!!!

they are the blame for the tzures that klal yisrual is going true ..
ki savir masheles zudoin min huoretz .
the kadoishim are korbunes of klal yisruel...... don't use them for timah.................
ibila hmuvas lunatzach imucha hasehm dimuh mial kol ponim
bebias mushich tzitkeiny bimheiru beumeinny umein ”

“ How can you disavow Israel, yet live there? ”

“ You are 100% correct.

However, we need to be careful to the feelings of those who don't understand. Rav Aryeh Leibish was a wonderful,sensitive, loving man who lover EVERY Jew, American, European, Israeli or from whereever they originated of lived.

He would not have wished people's feelings hurt.

He LOVED Eretz Yisroel. But, halachakly he could not recognize the Medina, nor take a dime from it. I know his family would happily pay the airfare to transport his body, and have no wish to take one dime from the government. This is not hatred nor disrespect. This is the halacha as they, and many others see it, and they are bound by this.

To force an Israeli flag on his oron, or to have it in any way involved with his burial would be to disgrace him horribly. I understand that there are many of you, precious fellow Jews, who do not understant that, and are upset by this, but, please understand that this is something they must do.

I am a loyal American, and love my country. But, I want no US flag, or ANY political flag at my funeral.

I am a loyal American, and love my country, but would not wish to be interredin Arlington. I would want to be among the chassidim of my group, amond the tzadikim whom I knew.

Does that make me a bad American? US citizens would understand and say, "He chose to be buried according to his beliefs, so could not be buried here."

Please let us allow this precious soul, who loved every Jew, to be put to rest according to his and his family's beliefs and wishes without political recriminations.

He was murdered al Kiddush Hashem, travelling wherever he was needed to make sure OUR food is kosher to the highest standards.

He loved and respected EVERY Jew, and always had a loving, kind look and word for ANYONE he met, ANYWHERE. Let us give him the same, ”

“ This is not the time to debate the medina/state of israel. This family is against it, and its wishes must be respected. He was killed because he was a jew, not an Israeli. They initially did not request an Israeli plane to take him back. He was supposed to fly via commercial aircraft. In fact, originally Israel refused to send a plane at all. Only when they realized what kind of public backlash they faced did they cave in to pressure and send the plane.
The yerushalmi sect that he belongs to, live in what is Israel way before the creation of the state. They refuse to accept money from the state, and choose not to benefit directly from the state.
While for some it's difficult to understand, let's remain united in achdus, and let each family choose for themselves. ”

“ may we never be tested to make such decisions

let them be the way they want to be

let us learn to live together and respect each others customs and ways (as long as there isnt anyone forcing his opion on you)

as we did at har sinai "ke'ish echud nelaiv echud"
one nation one people under one gd ”

“ Uhh how about paying for your own plane back to israel then ”

“ "Keep your mouth shout"
even if he said it quietly, it's not nice!
But imagine these Kedoshim up there seeing us arguing .................
Let's practice some Shmiras Haloshon Leilu Nishmosom.
Maskim? ”

“ Keep your mouth shout ”

“ for the last 2000 years up till the creation of the so called "jewish state" a jew was defiened as a jew. simple? if a goy hated a jew . it was for only one reason because he's jewish. now after the creation of isreal there is another reason to hate jews. a political one. now those kedoshim weren't killed cause of the old time hatred tawerds jews. (study a little history and you will know that the jews living in the arab world were far better off. then their brothers in the cristian world) they were killed because of the political reason. how can their family allow to wrap his holy body in the very same flag that represents the politicizing of jews he was killed for? ”

“ This is not the time to debate the medina/state of israel. This family is against it, and its wishes must be respected. He was killed because he was a jew, not an Israeli. They initially did not request an Israeli plane to take him back. He was supposed to fly via commercial aircraft. In fact, originally Israel refused to send a plane at all. Only when they realized what kind of public backlash they faced did they cave in to pressure and send the plane.
The yerushalmi sect that he belongs to, live in what is Israel way before the creation of the state. They refuse to accept money from the state, and choose not to benefit directly from the state.
While for some it's difficult to understand, let's remain united in achdus, and let each family choose for themselves. ”

“ All the hate of the muslim against jews and Israelis are because 'isreal' so who need them.. ”

“ I'm glad to see there are still people out there who never let facts get in the way of thier opinions.

The yiddin in Arab lands were treated as second class citizens much as the yiddin in Poland and Russia were treated.

The pogrom in Chevrone happened in 1929 almost twenty years before the founding of the medina.

The kosel hama'arovi was closed off to yiidin and Arab Muslims would dump garbage over the wall onto the heads of yiddin who dared go there when it was not outright illeagal to go there.

There are plenty of good tainos against the medina but the claim that yiddin were safer before is nonsense and based on willfull ignorance of the facts. ”

“ he doesn't want to be wrapped in any flag.
respect that. ”

“ #24 how about if there was no state of israel we yidden would not be a target of arab muslims ever thought of that ? Well the Bal divrei Yoel did think about that and he kept on saying it. so let's all respect Rabbi Leibishs ZL views which is an american citizen and the Volover would not have a problem paying for a private plane ”

“ Ultimately, the decision is up to the family, of course. But are they so blinded by their ideology that they do not see that by rejecting Israel, they are providing aid and comfort and philosphically AGREEING with the same enemy who murdered R' Teitelboim, ZTKL,Hyd, R' and Rebitzin Holtzberg, ZTKL, Hyd, all of the other Jews slain at the Chabad house, ZKL, Hyd, as well as all of the other innocent victims of this massacre, A'H, Hyd? Did R' Teitelboim's rejection on principle of the State of Israel at all impress his barbarian Muslim captors, yimach shmom, or save him from a bloody and painful death? IT DID NOT. Wake up and smell the cholent -- radical Muslims who belive their phony death-"god" Allah gives them the right to kill in his name HATE JEWS, whether there is a State of Israel or not. They want all of us to be either dead men or dhimmis. ”

“ How can you disavow Israel, yet live there? ”

“ so what you are saying be4 the state of israel we jews did not have a problem. only 6 millon had a problem. ”

“ Zionism is the cause of much of our suffering, both physical and spiritual, since its inception.
It is an ideology based on rebellion against the one and only G-d, defiance against his Torah, and betrayal of everything sacred to Klal Yisroel.
To drape these Kedoshim in their flag is a desecration and the ultimate insult.
The Zionist aim to destroy everything these Kedoshim lived and died for! ”

“ You are 100% correct.

However, we need to be careful to the feelings of those who don't understand. Rav Aryeh Leibish was a wonderful,sensitive, loving man who lover EVERY Jew, American, European, Israeli or from whereever they originated of lived.

He would not have wished people's feelings hurt.

He LOVED Eretz Yisroel. But, halachakly he could not recognize the Medina, nor take a dime from it. I know his family would happily pay the airfare to transport his body, and have no wish to take one dime from the government. This is not hatred nor disrespect. This is the halacha as they, and many others see it, and they are bound by this.

To force an Israeli flag on his oron, or to have it in any way involved with his burial would be to disgrace him horribly. I understand that there are many of you, precious fellow Jews, who do not understant that, and are upset by this, but, please understand that this is something they must do.

I am a loyal American, and love my country. But, I want no US flag, or ANY political flag at my funeral.

I am a loyal American, and love my country, but would not wish to be interredin Arlington. I would want to be among the chassidim of my group, amond the tzadikim whom I knew.

Does that make me a bad American? US citizens would understand and say, "He chose to be buried according to his beliefs, so could not be buried here."

Please let us allow this precious soul, who loved every Jew, to be put to rest according to his and his family's beliefs and wishes without political recriminations.

He was murdered al Kiddush Hashem, travelling wherever he was needed to make sure OUR food is kosher to the highest standards.

He loved and respected EVERY Jew, and always had a loving, kind look and word for ANYONE he met, ANYWHERE. Let us give him the same, ”

“ I just read the VIN report about the hespidim in India and looked at the gut wrenching pictures of the crying Moishele. I admit, for a few seconds I was angry at the ribono shel olam for letting this happen, for letting this galus in which such things happen continue after all the blood and tears of parents and of children have been poured out at His feet, keviyachul.

Reading the comments above woke me up to understand that it is not the Ribbonoon Shel Olam who is keeping us in galus, it is us who are keeping ourselves in galus.

Please, everyone, spend today thinking about what you have done to add to the sinas chinom amongst us and what you can do to end it. Forget about yenem, whether he is a tzioni, a chosid, a litvak, a sephardi, a yekkeh, a lubavitcher, a satmarer, no matter which yid it is you think of as 'the other'.

I'll bli neder do this today. If enough of you join me not only might the Go'el Tzedek be here by Mincha, we all might be happy to see him no matter what hat he is or isn't wearing. If we will concentrate on our own guilt for a few minutes we would be so heartbroken we would finally understand why we need the geula shelaimah b'karov beyomainu. ”

“ The pogrom in Chevrone happened in 1929 as a direct response to the Balfour Declaration ”

“ Uhh how about paying for your own plane back to israel then ”

“ why was he ok with his wife and kids having an israeli passport? why was he ok with using services provided by the zionist government . When he goes up to shamayim he will not be asked whether he had an israeli passport or american . This whole zionist argument makes me puke . Just buy them in peace and stop with all this machlokes . ”

“ How about flying the unfortunate to Palestine --a.k.a. the West Bank-- for burial. Will that feel more like home than the holy cemeteries whose upkeep and security are under the stewardship of the modern State of Israel? What a shanda among our people: to object in this manner, at this time of horror, to all who cherish Israeli citizenship and its accompanying duties in the Israeli Defense Forces, may G-d bless all who now serve in the IDF and keep them from harm. ”

“ we don’t need there money b"h we have this few thousands to pay for a flight to eretz yisroel they Zionist themselves are involved in killing Jews this is the biggest kidush hoshem from the whole story to show the world that Zionist don’t represent the Jews ”

“ How can you disavow Israel, yet live there? ”

“ Reb Leibish held American citizenship as he was born and raised in USA. He moved to Israel when he married an Israeli. It is nonsence to say some Satmarer in Israel don't hold Israeli citizenship. No one will give up their USA citizenship unless they must or have a financial benefit.

These Hassidim stick to ancient traditional customs. How much more at the time of burting a deceased. These ceromonies and flag draping is a modern secular thing and not in line with traditional orthodox custom.

We don't know why things happen but some might even argue that Rabbi Teitelbaum became a victim due to the Israeli conflict. ”

“ Uhh how about paying for your own plane back to israel then ”

“ the great mharshab z"l from chabad was the biggest enmy to the zionests let's not fool ourselfs the zionests are the one who hate the the torah jew they whiped out the torah from entire communitys big shame on the entire isreali gov ”

“ How about flying the unfortunate to Palestine --a.k.a. the West Bank-- for burial. Will that feel more like home than the holy cemeteries whose upkeep and security are under the stewardship of the modern State of Israel? What a shanda among our people: to object in this manner, at this time of horror, to all who cherish Israeli citizenship and its accompanying duties in the Israeli Defense Forces, may G-d bless all who now serve in the IDF and keep them from harm. ”

“ Will they deny the $ that teror Victim`s famlies get? ”

“ This is not the time to debate the medina/state of israel. This family is against it, and its wishes must be respected. He was killed because he was a jew, not an Israeli. They initially did not request an Israeli plane to take him back. He was supposed to fly via commercial aircraft. In fact, originally Israel refused to send a plane at all. Only when they realized what kind of public backlash they faced did they cave in to pressure and send the plane.
The yerushalmi sect that he belongs to, live in what is Israel way before the creation of the state. They refuse to accept money from the state, and choose not to benefit directly from the state.
While for some it's difficult to understand, let's remain united in achdus, and let each family choose for themselves. ”

“ If, as a couple of posters have written, they do not accept money from the medina (and will not take terror-vicitm's money (R"L), there is still an issue of HAKARAS HATOV. The army, which I am sure they do not serve in, protects them, their wives, and children. There are other services that the medina provides, such as mail, water, electricity, bus transportation, etc. I understand that they are relying on a Gadol's shita (R. Yoel) but I still believe there must be hakaras hatov for the good that the medina does provide, and does do. ”

“ I suggest you check your facts about when the Teitlebaum family came to eretz yisroel. ”

“ A country that has destroyed the souls of so many sephardic Jews,A country that violates Shabbos in mass,a country that frees arab terrorists who kiled Jews and uproots a Jewish community like gush katif. I spit at the flag. The prime ministers daughter is a lesbian and his 2 sons ran away from Israel in order to avoid the army while the hatred they have towards religious Jews is worse than their hate to the arabs. The flag is our enemy. ”

“ you are a fool, think for a moment how did Eretz Yisroel survive before the corrupted Medinah came along, my mother remembers close to seventy years ago things in Israel where fine and dandy, please think before you post nonsense . ”

“ R' Leibish moved there when he got married. He went to live near his in-laws. The TAY Rebbe was born there approx. 70 years ago. ”

“ you are a fool, think for a moment how did Eretz Yisroel survive before the corrupted Medinah came along, my mother remembers close to seventy years ago things in Israel where fine and dandy, please think before you post nonsense . ”

“ Reb Leibish held American citizenship as he was born and raised in USA. He moved to Israel when he married an Israeli. It is nonsence to say some Satmarer in Israel don't hold Israeli citizenship. No one will give up their USA citizenship unless they must or have a financial benefit.

These Hassidim stick to ancient traditional customs. How much more at the time of burting a deceased. These ceromonies and flag draping is a modern secular thing and not in line with traditional orthodox custom.

We don't know why things happen but some might even argue that Rabbi Teitelbaum became a victim due to the Israeli conflict. ”

“ Ultimately, the decision is up to the family, of course. But are they so blinded by their ideology that they do not see that by rejecting Israel, they are providing aid and comfort and philosphically AGREEING with the same enemy who murdered R' Teitelboim, ZTKL,Hyd, R' and Rebitzin Holtzberg, ZTKL, Hyd, all of the other Jews slain at the Chabad house, ZKL, Hyd, as well as all of the other innocent victims of this massacre, A'H, Hyd? Did R' Teitelboim's rejection on principle of the State of Israel at all impress his barbarian Muslim captors, yimach shmom, or save him from a bloody and painful death? IT DID NOT. Wake up and smell the cholent -- radical Muslims who belive their phony death-"god" Allah gives them the right to kill in his name HATE JEWS, whether there is a State of Israel or not. They want all of us to be either dead men or dhimmis. ”

“ I can't stand it when people denounce the land of Israel, which is still "eretz Yisrael". I am not fond of the gov't, but if one is going to live there, then I don't believe they should denounce their citizenship. You don't like Israel, don't live there. Perhaps they would be happier in a country like France, where they will be attacked b/c they are Jewish. Think about this: if we ever had to flee the US, C'V, where would every Jew go? To Israel, no doubt. ”

“ I just read the VIN report about the hespidim in India and looked at the gut wrenching pictures of the crying Moishele. I admit, for a few seconds I was angry at the ribono shel olam for letting this happen, for letting this galus in which such things happen continue after all the blood and tears of parents and of children have been poured out at His feet, keviyachul.

Reading the comments above woke me up to understand that it is not the Ribbonoon Shel Olam who is keeping us in galus, it is us who are keeping ourselves in galus.

Please, everyone, spend today thinking about what you have done to add to the sinas chinom amongst us and what you can do to end it. Forget about yenem, whether he is a tzioni, a chosid, a litvak, a sephardi, a yekkeh, a lubavitcher, a satmarer, no matter which yid it is you think of as 'the other'.

I'll bli neder do this today. If enough of you join me not only might the Go'el Tzedek be here by Mincha, we all might be happy to see him no matter what hat he is or isn't wearing. If we will concentrate on our own guilt for a few minutes we would be so heartbroken we would finally understand why we need the geula shelaimah b'karov beyomainu. ”

“ That is funny you say that 70 years ago things were fine and dandy, as I remember it, it was near impossible to get the the Kotel or any other holy places in Israel since they were under Jordanian control. While I may not agree with the State then or now I do feel much safer being there now than I did many years back. I am an Orthodox Jew who has for many many years said a mishabayrach for the Haganah IDF and the men and women fighting to keep it safe. It breaks my heart to see "frum" Yidden yelling at other Jews that they are not frum, for what? oyyyy ad mosai? ”

“ Will they deny the $ that teror Victim`s famlies get? ”

“ So if he doesn't want anything from israel, let the family fly there and bring him home.
I feel His family does have the right to choose whatever type of funeral they want, but they should have respect for the state of Israel, thats sending a plane and people to bring him home. ”

“ #90. I am a fool?? The Eretz Yisorel was fine before the Medina? Oh, like during the time of the Crusades?? And during the 1929 Chevron Massacre?? Was your Mother there as well?? If she was, she might have a different opinion. And BTWay, my Mother was also there during the fight for Independence.... she tells us that there was celebrations going on, while at the same time, they could hear fighting on the war-front. (I hope there was more Ahavas Yisrael then than there is now). And do those who spit on the Flag daven at the Kotel??? If so, why??? It was CONQUERED by the Medina in 1967.... if they daven there, or go to any post-1967 areas, they are hypocrites. ”

“ That is funny you say that 70 years ago things were fine and dandy, as I remember it, it was near impossible to get the the Kotel or any other holy places in Israel since they were under Jordanian control. While I may not agree with the State then or now I do feel much safer being there now than I did many years back. I am an Orthodox Jew who has for many many years said a mishabayrach for the Haganah IDF and the men and women fighting to keep it safe. It breaks my heart to see "frum" Yidden yelling at other Jews that they are not frum, for what? oyyyy ad mosai? ”

“ As it happens, the black lines on the Talis are Zecher Lechorban. The blue stripes replaced the black to show that the Galus had ended. This was a conscious ideological decision arrived at during the war of independence in 1948 when the War heroes were prepared for burial.
It is not unreasonable to oppose this ideological replacement of one Geulah for another. ”

“ DON'T GIVE THE RIBONO SHEL OILOM EXCUSES FOR WHY HE IS KEEPING US IN GOLUS SO LONG. HOW LONG CAN YOU KEEP HITTING A PEOPLE AND EXPECT THEM NOT TO SNAP. IF HE WOULD TAKE US OUT OF THIS GOLUS WE WOULDN'T HAVE ALL THESE PROBLEMS AND THEREFORE WOULDN'T BE BICKERING AT EACH OTHER LIKE THIS. IT'S ALL HIS DOING AND HIS CHOICE. HE HAS SOME MASTER PLAN WHICH IS MAKING LESS SENSE BY THE DAY. HE, WHO IS ALL POWERFUL CAN BRING MOSHIACH THIS INSTANT AND REMOVE US FROM THIS BITTER GOLUS, AND I PROMISE YOU PEOPLE WILL BE SO NICE TO EACH OTHER.
SO NOW THAT YOU UNDERSTAND COMPLAIN TO HIM AND SCREAM TO HIM IN YOUR LOUDEST VOICE "AD MOSAI"!!!!! ”

“ I'm glad to see there are still people out there who never let facts get in the way of thier opinions.

The yiddin in Arab lands were treated as second class citizens much as the yiddin in Poland and Russia were treated.

The pogrom in Chevrone happened in 1929 almost twenty years before the founding of the medina.

The kosel hama'arovi was closed off to yiidin and Arab Muslims would dump garbage over the wall onto the heads of yiddin who dared go there when it was not outright illeagal to go there.

There are plenty of good tainos against the medina but the claim that yiddin were safer before is nonsense and based on willfull ignorance of the facts. ”

“ That is funny you say that 70 years ago things were fine and dandy, as I remember it, it was near impossible to get the the Kotel or any other holy places in Israel since they were under Jordanian control. While I may not agree with the State then or now I do feel much safer being there now than I did many years back. I am an Orthodox Jew who has for many many years said a mishabayrach for the Haganah IDF and the men and women fighting to keep it safe. It breaks my heart to see "frum" Yidden yelling at other Jews that they are not frum, for what? oyyyy ad mosai? ”

“ Zionism is the cause of much of our suffering, both physical and spiritual, since its inception.
It is an ideology based on rebellion against the one and only G-d, defiance against his Torah, and betrayal of everything sacred to Klal Yisroel.
To drape these Kedoshim in their flag is a desecration and the ultimate insult.
The Zionist aim to destroy everything these Kedoshim lived and died for! ”

“ "Keep your mouth shout"
even if he said it quietly, it's not nice!
But imagine these Kedoshim up there seeing us arguing .................
Let's practice some Shmiras Haloshon Leilu Nishmosom.
Maskim? ”

“ Great keep blaming everyone else for every problem so we never have to make a real cheshbon hanefesh for ourselves.

What a waste of a tragedy. ”

“ I'm glad to see there are still people out there who never let facts get in the way of thier opinions.

The yiddin in Arab lands were treated as second class citizens much as the yiddin in Poland and Russia were treated.

The pogrom in Chevrone happened in 1929 almost twenty years before the founding of the medina.

The kosel hama'arovi was closed off to yiidin and Arab Muslims would dump garbage over the wall onto the heads of yiddin who dared go there when it was not outright illeagal to go there.

There are plenty of good tainos against the medina but the claim that yiddin were safer before is nonsense and based on willfull ignorance of the facts. ”

“ As it happens, the black lines on the Talis are Zecher Lechorban. The blue stripes replaced the black to show that the Galus had ended. This was a conscious ideological decision arrived at during the war of independence in 1948 when the War heroes were prepared for burial.
It is not unreasonable to oppose this ideological replacement of one Geulah for another. ”

“ As it happens, the black lines on the Talis are Zecher Lechorban. The blue stripes replaced the black to show that the Galus had ended. This was a conscious ideological decision arrived at during the war of independence in 1948 when the War heroes were prepared for burial.
It is not unreasonable to oppose this ideological replacement of one Geulah for another. ”

“ no the you can say we have learnd how good and rich quality the frum jews are hacnusas orcham hashgucha prayers

this all was done by frum jews not by non observent israelis ”