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Jerusalem - Israeli Gov: Zaka Sells A Lot Of Lies To The Media |
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Head of Zaka Meshi Zahav, carries away the Seifer Torah from the Mumbai Chabad house
"They are causing all kinds of problems," a senior Foreign Ministry official said of the six-man team that flew Thursday on its own volition to Mumbai. "They are selling all kinds of stories to journalists looking for stories, and taking credit for things they didn't do."
Charges by the head of the Zaka team in Mumbai reported in The Jerusalem Post on Monday that the Jewish hostages in the Chabad House may have been killed by Indian commandos, and not by the terrorists, infuriated the Foreign Ministry, with one official saying that these types of "irresponsible comments" can have serious diplomatic repercussions.
"How can they say such a thing?" one official said. "Did they do an autopsy, do they know what type of bullet caused the wound? Do they have forensic or ballistic expertise? This is not the type of thing you can determine just by looking at a body."
Regarding Zaka, one senior Foreign Ministry official said that the six-man team went to Mumbai on its own, and was not working together with the official Israeli representatives on the ground.
"It is not exactly clear what they are doing there," the official said.
According to the official, the Indian authorities removed the bodies from the home, and there was no need for Zaka to do what it often is called upon to do after terrorist attacks in Israel - collect body parts.
Zaka spokesman Motti Bukjin deflected the criticism, and also said that the group had no intention of leveling criticism at the Indian government.
Bukjin said that Zaka volunteers worked around the clock in Mumbai helping to identify the bodies, sponge up blood for burial with the bodies, deal with damaged Torah scrolls in the Chabad House and remove some of the six bodies from the house.
Once these bodies were removed, he said the Zaka volunteers remained with them around-the-clock so they were not mixed up with other bodies, and - together with Foreign Ministry officials - to ensure that no autopsies were performed on them.
He said Zaka would sit down with Foreign Ministry officials at a later date to draw conclusions from the events in Mumbai.
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Read Comments (63) — Post Yours »
1
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:23 AM dov Says:
again no one can get along!! when is this ever going to stop? this is a sad occurance and all i see so far unfortunately is everyone having issues with others. starting with the Israeli flags and all the he said/she said BS. Ladies and Gentlemen this is Yemot Mashiach and this is what we are doing. Come on - reunite as one and show the world what we as Jews are all about.
2
Dec 02, 2008 at 05:34 AM Anonymous Says:
“ again no one can get along!! when is this ever going to stop? this is a sad occurance and all i see so far unfortunately is everyone having issues with others. starting with the Israeli flags and all the he said/she said BS. Ladies and Gentlemen this is Yemot Mashiach and this is what we are doing. Come on - reunite as one and show the world what we as Jews are all about. ”
EIN sholom l'reshuim amar hashem the flag is pure kfira bashem
3
Dec 02, 2008 at 05:21 AM Anonymous Says:
I long expected that you cannot believe anything. Everyone tries to glorify their work. Hatzolo Members, chaverim, misaskim etc etc. We owe them, they are important but they are human, and need recognition. (why have they joined these services?) But when high stakes are involved i.e. relations between 2 Nuclear states, they should stay quiet like Red Cross or other professional services.
4
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:29 AM Hudy Says:
Israeli government is jealous that Zaka is getting free publicity while they [the Israel government] feel that they are the representatives of Klal Yisroel.
The truth of the matter is that the Indian Commandoes might very well have killed some innocent Jews.
5
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:08 AM Anonymous Says:
It would be clever for us jews to zip up our mouth sometimes, escpecially when we are in another country. Take the info, do your job, and leave. Once back home in Israel, file any report you wish. Just my opinion.
6
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:22 AM Eli Says:
I read some of the comments on the Jpost article from Indian citizens and they were clearly upset, they lost one of their commandos in the operation, while trying to save the hostages, I watched it live on IBN and I don't think their commandos are in par with the Israelis, but for ZAKA to open their mouth is unpolitical.
As we all know "syog lachochma shtika"
7
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:09 AM Nifty Says:
While ZAKA does great work I do agree with the criticism of ZAKA in regards to reporting all these conflicting stories that drive people crazy.
I have read many reports quoting ZAKA which contradict each other.
For example: They reported that the Rabbi covered his wifes body with a Talit, and that the Rabbi was killed the last day. Then I read that the house lady that escaped the house with little moshe reported that the rabbi and his wife were already dead the first day.
They reported that they found BenZion Korman over a gemara in the Shul together with Rabbi Teilbaum and Rabbi Holzberg. Then I read that Korman was the only hostage found on the fifth (top) Floor.
Making up stories only raises emotions then they inflate spirits. They have to be more responsible than that.
ZAKA members Stop talking and reporting, your job is to clean up and shut up!
8
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:05 AM world map Says:
Yes you right we need to unite.
however do not mix up the frum comunity with the not frum.
every 1 who fits in the frum comunity (keeps shabbaht kashrut etc..) no diffrent how he dress. (of course tzniesdig) need to unite strongly.
Please forget all personel feeling and MAKE ACHDUS
9
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:59 AM juliana Says:
Its about power, and PR. all the comments from the isreal gov.
10
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:26 AM Anonymous Says:
Zaka are Tzaddikim who represent the Jewish people. "Israel" represents its own self and NOT the Jewish people. Israel is worried for its secular agenda at the expence of ruchnius and the wellbeing of neshamos.
I am insulted at the Israelis attitude towards Zaka! I see no MP's from the kinesset helping out with this important work!
All I see the gov. doing is hijacking the funeral to reflect themselves, rather than acknowledging that the churban was due to the Jewish identity of the deceased, not the Israeli identity.
this is insulting. ZAKA is only the best of the best of the Jewish people. Nothing less.
11
Dec 02, 2008 at 05:53 AM Anonymous Says:
no 8 what about frum people who use the internet
we need achdus between ALL YIDDEN stop making labels especially nowadays many frum jews talk the talk but don't walk the walk in their chadrei chadorim ALL JEWS ARE ONE
12
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:33 AM Shlomo Says:
Wat more could we expect from israel then to criticize an amazing org just bec they believe in g-d and try following his torah!
13
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:47 AM murray Says:
“ Israeli government is jealous that Zaka is getting free publicity while they [the Israel government] feel that they are the representatives of Klal Yisroel.
The truth of the matter is that the Indian Commandoes might very well have killed some innocent Jews. ”
"Friendly Fire" "Colateral Damage"- unfortunately it happens. The Zaka people were probably just stating facts or observations (based on experience) It doesn't mean they were pointing blame or ungreatfull for the efforts, or that the Indians were not dilligent.
14
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:24 AM merkin Says:
What is forgotten in our times is Derech Eretz. Tact. Diplomacy. Humility. Knowing when you know what you are talking about and when you don't. The truth is without an autopsy you can NOT say whose bullets caused this horrible tragedy. This is SO wrong. Those of you here who use this tragedy to bash Israel should just be quiet for a change. But, of course, you will not be quiet. I once heard a rav refer to what we are seeing today as a "sickening self-righteousness".
15
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:24 AM Berl Says:
In spite of the sympathy shown by the Indians and their well meaning actions nevertheless they have no concept of what is required for Jews. The same goes for the kofrim in the Israeli gvt. who support autopsies, selling body parts(it was proven the Dr. Yehudah Hiss of Abu Kabir Forensic Institute did this and he was only reprimanded not fired) and abortions. To them a dead body is a dead body they do not care about blood, shmirah or any of the intricate halachic shailos that arise in such a situation. It would not bother them to mix bodies or leave bodies unattended. The VOLUNTEERS of Zaka are careful to carry out their duties in a most stringent manner.We can not rely on Zippy the Pinhead Livni or her underlings to carry out these delicate tasks.Olmert has some nerve commenting on the no nonsense actions of the Indian anti-terror squad when here he leaves teh people of Sderot unprotected and allows Gilad Shalit and Jonathan Pollard to remain captives. Shame on the Israeli gvt for criticizing Zaka and trying to get in the limelight by making a media circus for their aggrandizement on the blood of Kdoshim!
16
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:22 AM ari Says:
It is nothing more then the same old stuff,
Israel cannot take when frum yiden get any good PR,
They actually hate us more then a goy does,
And to all of you who are writing these comments against ZAKA you should be ashamed.
17
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:06 AM merkin Says:
15 and 16, you are both so wrong. You interpret every disagreement as "they hate us". Grow up! You think every suggestion or criticism of a frum organization is based on animosity towards frum people. Sometimes the criticism can be correct! You remind me of the guy who was driving up to the mountains to get there before Shabbos, speeding because he was running late. When he got a ticket, he told everyone that the cop was an anti-semite singling out frum Jews rushing home for Shabbos. This is a common mentality these days. Frummies have this attitude against secular people. IF they have a critical comment, it must be anti-frum, period. This is a childish way of looking at things.
18
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ It is nothing more then the same old stuff,
Israel cannot take when frum yiden get any good PR,
They actually hate us more then a goy does,
And to all of you who are writing these comments against ZAKA you should be ashamed. ”
you should never need them (Zaka)
and if youre a frum Yid you should never need the israeli goverment.
19
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:12 AM Anonymous Says:
It is known that Zaka is a money making machine, but why sound the alarm at such times?
20
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:09 AM Anonymous Says:
“ It is nothing more then the same old stuff,
Israel cannot take when frum yiden get any good PR,
They actually hate us more then a goy does,
And to all of you who are writing these comments against ZAKA you should be ashamed. ”
rubbish!!! zaka has to maintain a sense of professionalism. the isreali and indian goverments are correct. zaka should learn to be more cautious.
21
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:16 AM ChaimRubin Says:
I hate to say this, but that was bothering me from the start. None of us can thank enough what Zaka does. It's a Mitzvah of the highest esteem and they will be rewarded ten fold in the world to come.
HOWEVER - It was irresponsible of them to take photos and send reports to news sites and agencies. It wasn't their place. They overstepped their bounds and because they didn't read the situation right on a number of situations they are causing an international indecent and hurting good will between Jews and Indians.
Sandra Samuel is a Goy, an Indian, yet she saved Moshele'e life and we can learn from this that a relationship between a goy and a jew is important. We need to respect all humans, whether they are Jewish or not.
Zaka is an amazing organization and they did amazing work, but they should not have commented on what they saw or thought they saw, again, it wasn't their place.
To those who start yelling "Why can't we all just get along!!! Achdus!!" It's important to get along, but when someone does something that can have such a negative global impact it must be rectified. Zaka should apologize for not being careful of what they say and we can move on.
Don't hide all of our problems behind the self riotous cries of "Achdus!! Let's all get along!!"
Please.
22
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:25 AM Big Masmid Says:
Again who asked the Israeli government to get involved.
23
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:52 AM merkin Says:
Hey Big Masmid: The Israeli government has been deeply involved from the moment the first shots were fired. The Israeli government arranged flights to India, and at this moment is providing protection to the people attending the levaya in Kfaf Chabad. The Israeli government coordinated the transportation and supply lines to Zaka and the intelligence officers that are working. You are very naive to ask, "who asked the Israeli gov't to get involved." And the reality is: without the Israeli gov't you wouldn't be cocky. You'd be walking with your chin on the ground like Jews did for centuries when there was no where to turn in times of persecution.
24
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:47 AM ChaimRubin Says:
The Israeli Government has gone above and beyond what they had to do here. The helped secure passports, sent teams, arranged flights, cleared security issues and as we speak major Israeli politicians are at the Levaya and some even speaking.
We owe them a debt of gratitude here. We complain when they don't treat the frum right, but when they do treat us right, we still complain? how ungrateful are you?
Why is it so hard for any frum organizations to just admit when they make a mistake. Why do people always want to defend them to the end, no matter what.
People make mistakes, own up to them and say sorry!
25
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:10 AM oisher Says:
“ I long expected that you cannot believe anything. Everyone tries to glorify their work. Hatzolo Members, chaverim, misaskim etc etc. We owe them, they are important but they are human, and need recognition. (why have they joined these services?) But when high stakes are involved i.e. relations between 2 Nuclear states, they should stay quiet like Red Cross or other professional services. ”
hevay don lekaf zecus and not what an apikoirus has to say about them
26
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:03 AM Anonymous Says:
what do you people want from these 6 ZAKA men I'm telling you these people did not sleep for about a week and no hakaras hatov if they made a mistake they will say I'm sorry but people come on let's not forget how much these ZAKA men worked in the last 5 days non stop
27
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:16 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I long expected that you cannot believe anything. Everyone tries to glorify their work. Hatzolo Members, chaverim, misaskim etc etc. We owe them, they are important but they are human, and need recognition. (why have they joined these services?) But when high stakes are involved i.e. relations between 2 Nuclear states, they should stay quiet like Red Cross or other professional services. ”
That's the real point. They are mesirash nafesh people. But they don't have the diplomatic skills of saying statements.
28
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ It would be clever for us jews to zip up our mouth sometimes, escpecially when we are in another country. Take the info, do your job, and leave. Once back home in Israel, file any report you wish. Just my opinion. ”
jews dont know how to zip.
29
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:29 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I long expected that you cannot believe anything. Everyone tries to glorify their work. Hatzolo Members, chaverim, misaskim etc etc. We owe them, they are important but they are human, and need recognition. (why have they joined these services?) But when high stakes are involved i.e. relations between 2 Nuclear states, they should stay quiet like Red Cross or other professional services. ”
1000% RIGHT
30
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:25 AM AuthenticSatmar Says:
Amazing. Just the other day Tzipi Livni was busy that Israel is not a jewish state, but rather a national homeland. Why then when there is headlines to be made is the Israeli gov't all of a sudden the spokesman for everything jewish.
Yes I am grateful for what the gov't has done, but the question remains, what were their motives.
Also, the gov't send a plane only after ZAKA put pressure after the Indian airlines refused to take more than one body a day. When the gov't saw the good PR they can get, they got involved.
31
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:43 AM Yasher Koiach ZAKA Says:
“ what do you people want from these 6 ZAKA men I'm telling you these people did not sleep for about a week and no hakaras hatov if they made a mistake they will say I'm sorry but people come on let's not forget how much these ZAKA men worked in the last 5 days non stop ”
BS"D
And unlike the Israeli government, ZAKA volunteers do not get paid to do the work that no one else would do. For the government it is dirty work and for Zaka it is avoidas hakoidesh.. Were it not for ZAKA, who knows what would have happened to the bodies and to the sefer Torah.
ZAKA attracts rough and ready action types who may not be the most delicate or diplomatic because their chessed is about fast and effective action and not talk, but this public condemnation on the part of the government, which bungled much as well, is totally unacceptable.
They know Reb Yehuda Meshi-Zahav's phone number and can call him and tell him whatever they want in private (and he would be right to tell them where to get off).
32
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:43 AM Anonymous Says:
Look at the good bye letter of the Indian government: we are the only county who never persecute the Jewish people! So let's watch our mouth!
33
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:54 AM Anonymous Says:
no one should put themselves into zaka members shoes. any normal person would have nightmares from the scenes they see. yes they maybe are wrong for talking to much or posting pictures online that are uncalled for(i heard there were pictures for about a half hour online of the mesim) but this is there only way of still staying normal for just a drop longer. its a hard and heartbreaking job so lets not judge them till one of us are in there shoes doing their job.
34
Dec 02, 2008 at 09:05 AM isaac Says:
although i dont agree with zaka at some points, because they became a money profit business, on this case they are right, i wonder how can commandos in India waited to storm the place for 36 hours? they should of shoot in at the first minute a sleeping bomb to neutralize all inside instated of shooting anywhere
35
Dec 02, 2008 at 09:01 AM Antelope110 Says:
“ jews dont know how to zip. ”
Really? And do you think we said enough in 1939-45???
36
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:59 AM crying in my heart Says:
“ It is known that Zaka is a money making machine, but why sound the alarm at such times? ”
A money making machine??What?? Are YOU out there doing this difficult, holy work? Everyone likes to talk and criticize. Emor Me'at Veasei harbei! Speak little, do a lot. I agree with the writer who said that ZAKA was not nec. criticizing, simply conjecturing. And it's not so easy to go into such a situation and then just stay quiet. All the gossip-lovers on this sight wait and watch for the "latest," then put people down for providing it. Maybe it's time some of you kept your mouths a bit more diplomatic, too.
37
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:56 AM Michoel Says:
Zaka is a mixed bag:
One the one hand, they often perform a necessary service.
However, they are also a bunch of self-promoting, self-aggrandizing cowboys as well.
I'm surprised I haven't already received an EMAIL from them, trying to cash in on the tragedy by overstating their role.
As a charedi Jew, I think that the Israeli gov't is basically correct here when saying that Zaka is irresponsible, sensationalist, and has no business talking to the press about things that are irrelevant to the Zaka mission.
38
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:55 AM MP Says:
I don't think the israeli government is saying that Zakah is a bad organization, in fact they know firsthand their great work and therefore they fund it.
Had this been the red cross or any other organization who would release such sensitive info they would also be criticized.
Had these kedoshim been american and returned to america, america would be the one criticizing.
And anyone with an immense animosity against the israeli government, "WILL ALWAYS BLAME THE ISRAELI GOVERMENT" arabs and (Leider) some jews too.
I'm not saying the Medina is Heilig, but Puh Leeeeeze, they are trying to protect their citizens and their interests, like any normal government would.
39
Dec 02, 2008 at 09:33 AM Monseyer Says:
I believe Zakah told the truth but it was against OUR interests.
If CH"V anything like this happened again, we don't want the indians to say these ungrateful jews are not worth our efforts.
The truth is not always the right thing to say.
40
Dec 02, 2008 at 09:33 AM Moishe Zichmech Says:
“ Zaka are Tzaddikim who represent the Jewish people. "Israel" represents its own self and NOT the Jewish people. Israel is worried for its secular agenda at the expence of ruchnius and the wellbeing of neshamos.
I am insulted at the Israelis attitude towards Zaka! I see no MP's from the kinesset helping out with this important work!
All I see the gov. doing is hijacking the funeral to reflect themselves, rather than acknowledging that the churban was due to the Jewish identity of the deceased, not the Israeli identity.
this is insulting. ZAKA is only the best of the best of the Jewish people. Nothing less. ”
Stop with the shtisem, Zaka do not represent the Jewish people! Yes, they are courageous young men, yes they sometimes go into harm’s way, yes they do tremendous acts of kindness. The Israeli government, on the other hand, does not represent the Jewish people either. But that’s not the point.
You cannot simply sing, “ZAKA good, Israel bad.” That’s a song you should leave for your little 2 year old. You are an adult and you are presented with a case and it is your job to look at this instance with open mindedness and realize that Moishe Rabeinu also made a mistake and that Hitler may have also done a good deed once in his life. Zaka is not superhuman who can’t make mistakes and the Israeli government is not always wrong.
In this case, in fact, ZAKA made a stupid fundamental mistake and the Israeli government is a million percent correct.
As a member of Red Cross I can tell you that the strength of the organization is bipartisanship, or lack of any political affiliation, there is only one agenda in mind: help the people and get out.
If g-d forbid there is a terrorist explosion next week in Bangladesh involving Jewish people, do you think they won’t consider Zaka’s big mouth before letting them in? Zaka needs to learn to “clean up and shut up,” as one poster so aptly put it. Then they will be recognized for the heroes they are as opposed to being seen as a bunch of attention seeking kids who never grew up. They need to get proper training from the State department TODAY! This is too serious.
41
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:20 AM MP Says:
The situation was so dire, everyone was so hungry for news from india that everyone was releasing news including Zaka.
42
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:19 AM Anonymous Says:
this can not be disputed....much information came out to the public trhu zaka members and THIS IS WRONG
43
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:27 AM Shocked Says:
they went there to do a job and not to yenta and tell tales about what they saw. they have the same responsibilities as a chevra kadisha, and that is to do their jobs as professionals, stay in the backround and then LEAVE. They do wonderful work, and should be applauded, but they must act responsibily. If not, they will lose the trust of the public and the authoririteis, and then they become worthless.
Furthermore, they took photographs of the inside of the Chabad house, which i can only assume they took to use for later fund raising purposes. maybe that's fine or maybe it is not. but these photos were then recklessly sent around the internet, and there WAS ONE PHOTO WERE ONE OF THE KEDOSHIM WAS CLEARLY SEEN. THIS PHOTO WAS POSTED ON A WEBSITE. I truly hope this was a mistake, by all parties. But it underlines what can happen when you lose focus of your primary job, Kovad Hameis, and become to concerned about public relations.
I fear zaka may come away from this episode with a black eye, and that would be unfortunate.
44
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:
Zaka is very good at what they do and are well trained in their terrible tasks. Diplomacy requires a completely different type of training. The same way I would not want Foreign Ministry personnel burying people, I don't want Zaka running diplomacy.
They were not helpful on the diplomatic front and they need to recognize it and lean for the future. Otherwise they cannot be allowed to operate outside of Israel and that would be a real shame.
45
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:53 AM Anonymous Says:
“ While ZAKA does great work I do agree with the criticism of ZAKA in regards to reporting all these conflicting stories that drive people crazy.
I have read many reports quoting ZAKA which contradict each other.
For example: They reported that the Rabbi covered his wifes body with a Talit, and that the Rabbi was killed the last day. Then I read that the house lady that escaped the house with little moshe reported that the rabbi and his wife were already dead the first day.
They reported that they found BenZion Korman over a gemara in the Shul together with Rabbi Teilbaum and Rabbi Holzberg. Then I read that Korman was the only hostage found on the fifth (top) Floor.
Making up stories only raises emotions then they inflate spirits. They have to be more responsible than that.
ZAKA members Stop talking and reporting, your job is to clean up and shut up!
”
your comment made sense until thelast - uncecessry and hateful last line. I teach my kids not to say shut up because it isnt nice - dont yuo know that.
46
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:24 PM Yankel Padrochik Says:
“ your comment made sense until thelast - uncecessry and hateful last line. I teach my kids not to say shut up because it isnt nice - dont yuo know that. ”
that was the best line...... you doughnut.......
47
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:49 PM Dina Says:
Zaka does holy work - we must appreciate and thank them for doing this hard, difficult and extremly holy work
48
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:47 PM Anonymous Says:
Hindsight is always 20/20 but wouldn't have made sense for a Governement official to brief ZAKA personeel not to speak with the media or other responsible types of conduct these volunteers may not be aware of. It would make so much sense for the Israeli Governemnt reach out to ZAKA as it would pay for ZAKA to have a working relationship with The State of Israel when dealing with chutz ;LAretz disaters.
Turff wars are counter prodictive
49
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Again who asked the Israeli government to get involved. ”
And if the gov't didn't get involved you'd be complaining that they would have gotten involved if the victims weren't charaidim.
There is just no winning with people who have nothing in thier lives but hatred, hatred, hatred and more hatred.
50
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:11 PM Milhouse Says:
“ That's the real point. They are mesirash nafesh people. But they don't have the diplomatic skills of saying statements. ”
Who in Israel does?
51
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:57 PM Milhouse Says:
And we should believe the Israeli government over ZAKA, why exactly?
52
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:53 PM Anonymous Says:
This situation is so sad. We should shake and tremble if this is a reflection of what is going on in klal yisroel today.
53
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:22 PM Michoel Says:
“ they went there to do a job and not to yenta and tell tales about what they saw. they have the same responsibilities as a chevra kadisha, and that is to do their jobs as professionals, stay in the backround and then LEAVE. They do wonderful work, and should be applauded, but they must act responsibily. If not, they will lose the trust of the public and the authoririteis, and then they become worthless.
Furthermore, they took photographs of the inside of the Chabad house, which i can only assume they took to use for later fund raising purposes. maybe that's fine or maybe it is not. but these photos were then recklessly sent around the internet, and there WAS ONE PHOTO WERE ONE OF THE KEDOSHIM WAS CLEARLY SEEN. THIS PHOTO WAS POSTED ON A WEBSITE. I truly hope this was a mistake, by all parties. But it underlines what can happen when you lose focus of your primary job, Kovad Hameis, and become to concerned about public relations.
I fear zaka may come away from this episode with a black eye, and that would be unfortunate. ”
I agree with you.
What other group of human beings (Jewish or otherwise) brings cameras with them when cleaning up the remains of the dead?
Truly sick.
54
Dec 02, 2008 at 04:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ While ZAKA does great work I do agree with the criticism of ZAKA in regards to reporting all these conflicting stories that drive people crazy.
I have read many reports quoting ZAKA which contradict each other.
For example: They reported that the Rabbi covered his wifes body with a Talit, and that the Rabbi was killed the last day. Then I read that the house lady that escaped the house with little moshe reported that the rabbi and his wife were already dead the first day.
They reported that they found BenZion Korman over a gemara in the Shul together with Rabbi Teilbaum and Rabbi Holzberg. Then I read that Korman was the only hostage found on the fifth (top) Floor.
Making up stories only raises emotions then they inflate spirits. They have to be more responsible than that.
ZAKA members Stop talking and reporting, your job is to clean up and shut up!
”
if all the contradictions are like the 2 exemples you've mention'd than you are wrong & not ZAKA, the first 1 they didnt said that the house lady reported that they were death @ the time she survived, she just said that they were sound to be uncounties, & about R' Kruman they've never said they found him on the 5th floor they just said that it sound to them that he was killed on the 5th floor, so dont make up your own story's & than you'll have contradictions
55
Dec 02, 2008 at 04:02 PM Milhouse Says:
Every phone has a camera. And why shouldn't they document what they do?
56
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:53 PM Anonymous Says:
zaka is the best group out there
there work is holy
57
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Israeli government is jealous that Zaka is getting free publicity while they [the Israel government] feel that they are the representatives of Klal Yisroel.
The truth of the matter is that the Indian Commandoes might very well have killed some innocent Jews. ”
To hudy,
So they might of and they might not have . Only a child says publicly whatever comes to their mind, an adult keeps quiet unless they have proof. One thing I can say is for anyone to publicly state such a thing even if would be true shows a total lack of hakoras hatov. The Indians risked their lives and some gave their lives trying to save as many hostages as possible. I've posted this so many times on this website it's getting redundant. They should have done what the Phila. PA PD did to the MOVE group in the 80's and blown up the whole buildings. So there wouldn't be any survivors (like in Phila.), at least there wouldn't have been any Indian commando causalties. Had they done this -then all you foolish people with all your foolish conspiracy theories would be happy.
Please grow up and stop making these chillul Hashems. All the good that you do doesn't negate this terrible Chillul Hashem!
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Dec 03, 2008 at 05:30 AM matzahlocal101 Says:
“ Hey Big Masmid: The Israeli government has been deeply involved from the moment the first shots were fired. The Israeli government arranged flights to India, and at this moment is providing protection to the people attending the levaya in Kfaf Chabad. The Israeli government coordinated the transportation and supply lines to Zaka and the intelligence officers that are working. You are very naive to ask, "who asked the Israeli gov't to get involved." And the reality is: without the Israeli gov't you wouldn't be cocky. You'd be walking with your chin on the ground like Jews did for centuries when there was no where to turn in times of persecution. ”
You're 100% wrong. When Jews turned to hashem for protection he answered. Do recall the story of mordechain in Shushan? How many F16 did Mordechai have? Do recall the story of Chezkiyahu Hamelech and Sancheriv? How many Merkava tanks did Chezkiyahu have? When we turned to Hashem he answered us. When we acted like the Israeli government does, we were and are persecuted. The Toichachah in Bechukosi lays it out word for word. There are no surpises there.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 12:53 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I long expected that you cannot believe anything. Everyone tries to glorify their work. Hatzolo Members, chaverim, misaskim etc etc. We owe them, they are important but they are human, and need recognition. (why have they joined these services?) But when high stakes are involved i.e. relations between 2 Nuclear states, they should stay quiet like Red Cross or other professional services. ”
I agree with everything you said except,
"We owe them"; you only owe these org. if they do the right thing. If they didn't do the right thing, even if they meant well, not only don't we owe them but they shouldn't have come in the first place. Being a volunteer is not an excuse for not doing the right thing!
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Dec 03, 2008 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:
T everyone writing against ZAKA
assuming that your jewish and you want a jewish burial If it was your body or the bodies of people you loved would you want it to be washed up by a cleaning company or to be cared for with the utmost respect like ZAKA does???
if it would be your relative dead out in yahupitz who do you suggest should pay for the tickets to get the body? the body bags? the equipment to clean up? and bring back the body to your home town?
to all the people that have issues with the pictures it is through many generous people who see these pictures and have a heart that contribute money to ZAKA and making it able for them to do this great mitzvah!!!
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Dec 03, 2008 at 12:28 PM Disgusted Says:
“ T everyone writing against ZAKA
assuming that your jewish and you want a jewish burial If it was your body or the bodies of people you loved would you want it to be washed up by a cleaning company or to be cared for with the utmost respect like ZAKA does???
if it would be your relative dead out in yahupitz who do you suggest should pay for the tickets to get the body? the body bags? the equipment to clean up? and bring back the body to your home town?
to all the people that have issues with the pictures it is through many generous people who see these pictures and have a heart that contribute money to ZAKA and making it able for them to do this great mitzvah!!!
”
Ah, I see. So you are agreeing then that the pictures were taken for fund raising purposes?
I see. And you are saying that ZAKA indeed has interests that they need to protect.
So tell us, if ZAKA would one day have to choose between their own self-interests and Kovod Hameis, which would they choose??
PS - What is it with us (yidden) that there are sacred cows that are beyond reproach. These orginizations (ZAKA, Hatzoloh, Shomrim, mosdos hachinuch etc.) are run and operating by HUMAN BEINGS. And human beings can, at times, make mistakes.
They deserve our support, respect, encouragement, etc. But if they make a mistake, why can't we voice our criticism. We are, after all, paying their bills!
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Dec 03, 2008 at 01:15 PM Anonymous Says:
Their intrest is kovod hameis I dont think they do this to kill time
When ZAKA is called to a scene how many people really care about their "mistakes" ?? when they went to india did any one care? now that the job is done by someone else its easy to give an opinion
As for your comment "we are after all paying their bills" something tells me that even if they didnt have a dime some how they would get the job done
our contributions only help ZAKA get this great mitzvah done that much easier
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Dec 03, 2008 at 02:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ While ZAKA does great work I do agree with the criticism of ZAKA in regards to reporting all these conflicting stories that drive people crazy.
I have read many reports quoting ZAKA which contradict each other.
For example: They reported that the Rabbi covered his wifes body with a Talit, and that the Rabbi was killed the last day. Then I read that the house lady that escaped the house with little moshe reported that the rabbi and his wife were already dead the first day.
They reported that they found BenZion Korman over a gemara in the Shul together with Rabbi Teilbaum and Rabbi Holzberg. Then I read that Korman was the only hostage found on the fifth (top) Floor.
Making up stories only raises emotions then they inflate spirits. They have to be more responsible than that.
ZAKA members Stop talking and reporting, your job is to clean up and shut up!
”
give some hakoras hatov